Law&Crime Sidebar - R. Kelly Prosecutor Reacts to P. Diddy Sex Trafficking Investigation: 'Just the Beginning'

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

Raids on music mogul Sean “Diddy” Combs’ properties and rumor of his potential arrest have drawn many comparisons between the federal investigations into Combs and fellow artist R. Kelly. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber sits down with former prosecutor Nadia Shihata, who helped put R. Kelly behind bars on child pornography charges, to talk about what could happen next in Combs’ case.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Go to sheathunderwear.com/sidebar for twenty percent off your order!HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Sean Diddy Combs can't seem to escape the spotlight right now, and the federal investigation into any connections to an alleged sex trafficking operation is creating comparisons to other infamous figures like Jeffrey Epstein and R. Kelly. Nadia Shihato was the prosecutor who helped put R. Kelly behind bars for decades. She joins us to talk about the investigation into Combs, what could come next in the comparisons to that infamous R. Kelly case.

Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Sean Combs, known by many as Diddy, P. Diddy, Puff Daddy, and I think there's probably more names, could soon face arrest. This comes after raids were conducted on Diddy's homes in L.A. and Miami by Homeland Security. It's been reported that this is pursuant to an ongoing investigation from the Southern District of New York. Now, it's been reported that this is concerning human trafficking.

Human trafficking, generally speaking, is when you exploiting somebody for labor or services or commercial sex. More specifically, if we're talking about sex trafficking, it's the recruiting, the transporting, the soliciting someone for the purposes of commercial sex acts. and it's usually through the use of force or fraud or coercion. The person is a minor under 18 years old. Now, we have been following all of the updates very closely here on sidebar when it comes to the ditty case. And so far, the details about the search and the investigation are pretty bare bones.

As of now, it's reported that the agents removed items like electronics and firearms. Sources say the focus of the investigation is, again, we still believe it could be connected to human trafficking. It could be connected to narcotics or firearms. I will tell you, though, Combs's attorney, Aaron Dyer, released a statement after these raids, saying in part, quote, there was a gross overuse of military level force as search warrants were executed at Mr. Combs's residences. This unprecedented ambush, paired with an advanced coordinated media presence, leads to a premature rush to judgment of Mr. Combs and is nothing more than a witch hunt based on meritless accusations made in civil lawsuits. Now, I should be clear, Combs has never been arrested or criminally charged in connection with any sort of trafficking. or abuse. But of course, this comes in the heels of major lawsuits that were filed against the

music mogul with the bombshell filing from Combs' ex-girlfriend and bad boy entertainment recording artist Cassie Ventura. That was the one that possibly blew up everything wide open because Ventura alleged that Combs physically and sexually abused her, including forcing her into sexual slavery and sex trafficking. Some of the more alarming allegations in the federal lawsuit included Combs allegedly raping Ventura in her home after she tried to leave him, savagely beating her, resulting in bruises and burst lips, forcing her to have sex with prostitutes on video while he watched and pleasureed himself,

forced her to carry a gun for him, tried to chase down music producer Shug Knight with a gun, and she also alleges that he blew up rapper Kid Cuddy's car because he found out that Cuddy was interested in Ventura. Now, Combs settled that lawsuit one day after it was filed, but then we saw more lawsuits coming out. In fact, there was another lawsuit that was filed by producer Little Rod Jones, Rodney Jones,

and it was not long after Cassie's, and it accuses Combs of sexual abuse and harassment, violations of the human trafficking statute, gun and drug possession, being involved in shootings, having parties with sex workers and underage girls, and it goes on and gone and on. I'll also highlight that.

It even says Cuba Gunning Jr. sexually assaulted him on Diddy's Yacht. Now, actually, the man that Jones called out in this lawsuit for being Combs' drug mule, the man that allegedly supplied drugs and weapons to Combs, he was actually arrested the same day the raids happened. His name is Brendan Paul, was arrested by Miami-Dade Police at the airport on Monday,

and police body cam video shows him being loaded into a patrol car. Now, since the news of these raids, comparisons have been made between Combs and Robert Kelly, more often known as R. Kelly, both highly successful music artists rose to fame in the 1990s, They even did a song together called Satisfy You. And accusations of misconduct and illicit activity with underage girls, they dogged R. Kelly for years with one of the earliest civil lawsuits being filed in 1996

when a woman stated that when she was 15 years old, R. Kelly, who was 24, not only had sex with her, but also encouraged her to bring her young friends to see him. And of course, Kelly's relationship with R&B sensation, Aaliyah, has long been scrutinized. Kelly married Alia when she was 15. He was 27, after allegedly having sexual sexual. contact with her for years leading up to the marriage, who is ultimately annulled. And we know that in the end, Kelly was convicted. He was convicted of child pornography, racketeering, and yes, sex trafficking charges in two

states, multiple cases, sentenced the 31 years in prison. Well, with that in mind, I am joined by Nadia Shihata. She is one of the New York prosecutors on the R. Kelly case, one of the people who helped put him away. She is now a criminal defense attorney. Nadia, so good to have you on here, sidebar. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you for having me.

What is your reaction to the Diddy case, the Diddy Raids? Well, I think it's a significant development in the case. Obviously, he's presumed innocent. No charges have been filed against him. But when you take a step like executing search warrants so publicly at two different locations, it means you have you have a mass significant evidence. You've got probable cause to believe a crime has been committed, which is the same standard for arrest. So it's significant.

Now, obviously, as a federal prosecutor, you want to make sure you have. proof beyond a reasonable doubt when you, when you charge a case. So they're continuing to investigate, but it's certainly a significant step. I am starting to believe. First, I was saying, maybe it's surprising that they didn't have arrests in conjunction with the raid or an indictment in conjunction with the raid. And then I started thinking, well, they obviously had probable cause. Perhaps they were speaking with people, but they needed more evidence on those properties, perhaps before there was an allegation, maybe before it was destroyed. They want to preserve it. They want to get that evidence.

They might be issuing subpoenas to people. I think that now I'm wondering if we may not see potential criminal charges for a while because it also might have to be submitted to a grand jury too, right? So we shouldn't expect perhaps charges against Diddy maybe for a little bit. Absolutely. Look, if they're following kind of the playbook we used in R. Kelly and pursuing similar charges as we did in that case, these types of cases, you know, take a little bit of time to investigate and to make sure you're corroborating all the victim testimony you're getting.

You want phone records. You want travel records. There's all sorts of corroboration that you're sending out subpoenas for, that you're speaking to people about, and then also conducting searches to help with that. What did you think of the fact, criticism from Diddy's lawyer, that this was an excessive military-style use of force? What's your take on that? Look, it did appear that there were some kind of military vehicle.

used as, as prosecutors, you're not kind of calling the shots on how agents operationally conduct a search. My guess is giving them the benefit of the doubt that, you know, they had, there were allegations that there were firearms in the property. It's a very large property and Dedy likely had security with firearms. So they have to secure the location and they have to ensure the safety of everyone conducting the search. So, you know, sometimes they err on the side of using as much firepower as possible in those circumstances. Yeah, especially given the allegations in the lawsuits, which makes me wonder, do you think the lawsuits are what precipitated this?

Do you think the people who are accusing Diddy of wrongdoing are the ones who might be cooperating witnesses and what set this ball rolling? I think it's very possible that the public filing of that first lawsuit came to the attention of federal agents and prosecutors and may have sparked this. And then obviously the follow-on lawsuits, once that first lawsuit was public, have only added to the allegations. And as a prosecutor, you know, you might start with the people who have made allegations publicly in a lawsuit. But I don't think they're going to stop there by any means. That's just the beginning.

And then you're investigating, you're talking to more people. Other victims may be coming forward who have not been public at all now that they're seeing that this is a serious investigation. So it's a starting point. So obviously this is very serious subject matter that we're dealing with right now. But I do want to take a detour for a quick second. Look, you guys should know how much we love producing these videos for you, telling these stories. And the truth is we're really able to do this because of the support that we get from our awesome sponsors. And I just want to call one out right now for you, Sheath Underwear.

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Hope you check them out. We don't know what they found in the house. And I'm going to ask you about what you think they might be looking for. But for example, if there was an allegation, hey, you know, Diddy has guns all over the place. And then you go to the properties and there are firearms all over the place. That kind of corroborates what they're being told. and that could be useful for prosecutors and trying to establish a case

and establishing of what they're being told is real. But what do you think they're looking for specifically if they are moving forward in a sex trafficking investigation? They're looking for anything that is corroborating information that has been given to them by live witnesses and victims.

So, I mean, it's been reported they were looking for electronic devices. Sure, they're going to be looking for videos potentially of sexual activity engaged in with complaining victims. But they're also going to be looking for communications, particularly if they are pursuing potential RICO charges. I think they're going to be looking particularly for communications between Diddy and his

inner circle, his inner network of people that may have helped or facilitated or enabled him to commit potential criminal activity. Now, the reason I was so excited to talk to you about this is because you were part of a very infamous prosecution, of a very infamous individual. Do you see similarities between the Combs case? Let me a phrase. Combs hasn't been charged. But do you see similarities?

If we're talking about potential sex trafficking charges, you know what the allegations are right now against Mr. Combs. Do you see similarities between him and R. Kelly? Look, every case is different, obviously, but there do appear to be some similarities based on the public allegations that have been made. For example, the allegations about forcing. individuals to have sex with others for for the pleasure of of ditty in this in this circumstance there were similar allegations with R. Kelly and that he recorded that activity so that's it's a

it's a pretty striking similarity in that sense but also the level of influence and power right I mean a big part of it when I'm reading the lawsuits is just you know you surround yourself with this team you have tremendous wealth access this lifestyle this lifestyle style. It was eerily reminiscent of what we were hearing from Kelly, right? Absolutely. I mean, when you reach a certain level of fame and you've got a group of people around you that are literally there to help you with whatever whim you have, legal or illegal, and are getting paid to do so and are, you know, more than happy to turn a blind eye to whatever else may be going on. That's a very big similarity. Again, these are just allegations

at this point against Mr. Combs, but yes. And yeah, he hasn't been criminally charged. So when his lawyer says there's been no criminal liability, no civil liability, he's exactly right. Those lawsuits are still pending. The lawsuit with Cassie Ventura was settled. At the time of this recording, Sean Combs has not been criminally charged in any way. I want to make that clear.

But I always thought it was interesting when you think about how the Kelly criminal prosecution began, how it started. It wasn't, was it, would you say it was from the documentary, was released that kind of got the ball rolling because again you wonder what is the thing that gets going with harvey winstein it was that new york times article with rkelly it was a really damaging um really damaging documentary maybe that was what you you could say started the ball rolling here with combs it maybe it was these lawsuits i find it so interesting the similarities with what initially what begins a criminal investigation yeah look in rkelly there's no doubt

that the uh documentary and the public airing of allegations certainly came to the attention of law enforcement and we began looking into it. But again, in all of these cases, that's just the starting point. To bring a federal criminal prosecution, you really have to amass credible evidence that you can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. But the public airing of such information against well-known people, that does get investigation started. There's no doubt about that. What was it like prosecuting R. Kelly? You know, we tried to, as best we could approach it as we would any other important case that we prosecuted. Obviously, there was a lot of media attention to it and our Kelly fans. I would say the biggest thing that could have potentially

affected the case was a lot of our victims received a lot of harassment on social media and so forth. And that takes a toll on people and certainly makes them hesitant to want to move forward with a case. When you were first prosecuting him, did you see a lot of people coming to R. Kelly's defense? Because at this time, I don't know if I'm seeing that so much with Diddy. Actually, what we're seeing is a lot of videos coming out from years ago that are looked at in a different context. You see high-profile celebrities who are making these comments, these innuendos about him. I don't see a ton of defense for Diddy. When you were first going after Kelly, I mean, was there a ton of, were you yourself receiving anybody?

backlash, any threats? Was there a lot of support for him? It wasn't support from kind of public, well-known figures, but he had a lot of kind of just regular fan support that would post on social media, YouTube channels, send emails mostly to victims, not to the prosecutors, but we did receive, you know, some of our own kind of threats and such. That's so disappointing me here. So if you, if this is a case where Diddy is ultimately, arrested, ultimately charged, federal prosecutors. What would you, what advice would you give them prosecuting a well-known figure like Diddy? I would tell them, put their heads down and pursue it as they would any other case, try to block out all the noise and just build your case, step by step,

put all the pieces of the puzzle together. And, you know, if it's this, it's reportedly the Southern District of New York, those are very good prosecutors. And that's what I would expect them to do. And how do you prove it? What do you have to show in a sex trafficking related case, what do you have to prove to make that conviction? Yeah, so it depends exactly how they're pursuing this. If they do it through a RICO, which I suspect they're probably looking into, they're going to need to show an enterprise, so an inner circle, a group that helps him facilitate a pattern of criminal activity.

And then that pattern can include things like forced labor or sex trafficking. The sex trafficking here could be. you know, transporting people via his private plane or otherwise to commit commercial sex. And commercial sex doesn't necessarily have to mean, you know, paying money, but also receiving anything of value. So he's getting making videos of this activity. That could be a thing of value as well. So and using force or fraud or coercion to do that. And so abusing victims, putting them in humiliating situations, that can all be part of that. Or promising them money or something of value and then not delivering it.

That would classify it as well? Yes. Right. Okay. So, and what would be the challenges that prosecutors would face legal challenges? How would someone in Diddy's position or if someone was arrested, you know, someone else in connection with this? How do they defend it?

What kind of arguments would you expect from the defense that you would have to fight back on? Yeah. If they pursue RICO charges, I imagine a defense would be that there were. was no criminal enterprise, to the extent there was criminal activity, this was one person acting alone. And if it's not RICO, a lot of it would potentially fall outside of the statute of limitations. So the advantage of RICO is it lets you go kind of decades potentially in the past and also to it expands venues. So you can charge criminal activity that occurred not just in the Southern District of New York, but throughout the country. If that's taken away, you know,

that would be a big hit to the scope of any criminal indictment. Let's talk about Rico in one second, because I have something interesting to ask you about that with respect to R. Kelly. Before we get to that, there is the idea that the whole week began, is did he here? Is he in another country? Would he have to be extradited? I don't believe he's in another country. If he asked me, I think he's here.

But having said that, let's say hypothetically he was in another country. What would be some ways prosecutors could go to legally get him back here for a prosecution or maybe, you know, put some pressure on him, whether it's, would it be putting pressure on his family members, associates, you know, charging them? Would it be any seizing bank accounts, freezing bank accounts, any way to get a criminal defendant from one country back here, whether it's extradition or some other process? Yeah, so the most common way would be extradition. You'd need an arrest warrant for that, and he'd need to be in a country that would extradite him, that has an extradition treaty. Otherwise, you know, there are other mechanisms. Sometimes in investigations, what's known as a lure is used. So, you know, there may be a false pretense to get him to come back to the country or to get him into another country where there is an extradition treaty.

Those types of things have been used. It's a little more difficult when the investigation is as possible. as it is now. But also if he's actually charged, then, you know, they might also take steps to start seizing assets as well. They would probably have a basis to do that. Interesting. All right. So I mentioned the RICO aspect of it because I wanted to end the conversation going back to R. Kelly. I wanted to ask you about R. Kelly's latest appeal. Just a couple of weeks ago, his attorneys went before the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in Manhattan argued that using the RICO statute, usually we've seen it for organized crimes.

like gangs. They say to prosecute Kelly through the RICO statute, that was unfair. The argument was that would mean that any kind of group, college fraternities, could be deemed a racketeering organization under that argument, under that view. What do you make of their argument? Yeah, I actually went and watched the argument. I think the Second Circuit viewed it with skepticism, as do I. I mean, you can have, the law is really clear. You can have completely legitimate organizations that are a RICO enterprise. Labor unions have faced RICO charges. You know, a corporation can even be an enterprise under RICO.

So you don't have to be an illegitimate organization or group or association to form that part of the enterprise. The next question is, is that enterprise or organization used to commit a pattern of racketeering activity. So, and is that pattern connected to the enterprise? That's where you get to the kind of criminality aspect to it. And I think that was proven in the R. Kelly case. Nadia, before I let you go, you just reminded me of something, and I wanted to ask you

about it. Do you think that they are going to subpoena, J.Lo, Justin Bieber, Usher, these high profile celebrities, do you think it's, I'll ask you that. And do you think they may work out deals with other people? people, perhaps I know high profile individuals, to testify against Diddy? Again, he hasn't been charged with anything. I want to make that clear, but I'm talking hypothetically an investigation. Are those two realistic possibilities? I think prosecutors will talk to anyone they think has relevant information. Now, that doesn't mean they'll start with a subpoena. It usually starts

with a reach out to see if someone will voluntarily speak to you. If that doesn't work and the prosecutors and agents think that the person really has relevant information, then, you know, their status as a celebrity is not going to stop them from getting subpoenaed and potentially having to testify. You imagine that. All right. Nadia Shihata, thank you so much for coming on. Great work, by the way.

You did it put on a terrific case and you put a really, really, I think there's the only word to describe as a monster behind bars. So great work. Thank you so much for coming on. And appreciate your insight. Thank you for having me. And that is all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining us.

As always, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. Apple Podcasts or Spotify.