Law&Crime Sidebar - Ruby Franke: 15 Most Horrifying Pieces of Evidence in YouTube Mom's Case

Episode Date: March 23, 2024

Newly released data from the state of Utah in relation to the case of former "momfluencer" Ruby Franke includes everything from police body camera footage of officers finding her two youngest children emaciated and with obvious wounds, to video of Franke and her business partner Jodi Hildebrandt being arrested, to a journal that documented a timeline of the women's crimes. Law&Crime's Jesse Weber breaks down the most outrageous new details learned from the trove of files.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can submit a claim in 8 clicks or less without having to leave your couch. To start your claim, visit: https://www.forthepeople.com/LCSidebarHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. It feels like I was being set up to end up here. I mean, I should be here. I haven't done anything wrong. This is what chance. The devil's been after me. Are you aware of the physical condition of your children? No. No, I've chosen to trust my wife with the children. It is here.

We have just reviewed the newly released materials in the Ruby Frankie case, interviews, jailhouse phone calls, and disturbing journal entries. We break all of this down for you right now. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Well, if you have been following us here on Sidebar, if you have been following the Ruby Frankie case from the beginning, this is a very big day. Utah authorities have just released a treasure trove of new videos, audio tapes, and photos in this criminal case. And I will tell

you something right now. This is a lot. This is really important. If you want to know a new context, understanding, a perspective on what went down here, this is it. This is a comprehensive summary of everything that was just released. Now, before we even get into the materials themselves, I'm going to set the stage. So Ruby Frankie, she was the once popular mommy vlogger. She started the now-defunct eight passengers YouTube channel with her husband, Kevin Frankie, documented their lives with their six children, who was eventually shut down in the wake of child abuse allegations.

People took issue with their parenting techniques in these videos, like one child. child being forced to sleep on a beanbag for months, another one where the couple's young daughter was not provided lunch for school. But you fast forward to August 2023, and Ruby Frankie and her purported business partner, Jody Hildebrandt, are arrested. Each of them are charged with aggravated child abuse after two of Ruby's youngest children identified as RF and EF were found at Jody's home. They had been malnourished. They had injuries. Evidence suggested that RF was tied up. duct tape on his limbs. He sustained severe wounds. R.F. had actually escaped Jody's residence, climbed out of a window. He was the one who ran to a neighbor who called 911, and that is

when the boy's sister was found by police hiding in a closet absolutely terrified. In fact, the case summary that accompanied this document release reads, quote, the ensuing investigation revealed that Ms. Frankie and Ms. Hildebrand held Frankie's 12-year-old son and nine-year-old daughter in a work camp-like setting. The children were regularly denied food, water, beds to sleep in and virtually all forms of entertainment. They were also prohibited from interacting with others and were hidden in the home when others came to visit. They were forced to do physical tasks like carrying loaded boxes up and downstairs and sitting against a wall without a chair or stool for hours at a time. The children were also forced to do manual labor outdoors in the extreme summer heat without

shoes or socks. They were similarly forced to stand outside. on a cement patio in the summer heat for hours and even days. They were beaten, and the 12-year-old was bound, hand-in-foot after a previous attempt at running away. Additionally, the children suffered emotional abuse to the extent that they came to believe that they deserved the abuse. The investigation found that religious extremism motivated Ms. Frankie and Ms. Hildebrand to inflict this horrific abuse. The women appeared to fully believe that the abuse they inflicted was necessary to teach the children how to properly repent for imagined sins and to cast the evil spirits out of their bodies. Just unbelievable. And we know that Ruby and Jody, they work together as part of connections, the Life Services Coaching Organization. Jody was listed

as a mental health counselor. Ruby was listed as a mental fitness trader. They both ended up pleading guilty to four counts of aggravated child abuse each, both sentenced to four terms to run consecutively, meaning one after the other. But in Utah, it's not up to the judge to set the exact prison sentence. It's actually up to the board of pardons and paroles. They determine when these women would be released. So what we're talking about with the law is they can't serve more than a maximum of 30 years in prison. So really, it's about four to 30 years in prison as their sentence. That's what we mean. And by the way, I should also tell you as we go through this when we talk about Kevin Frankie, he filed for divorce from Ruby Frankie. Keep that in mind. Well, after the conclusion

of this legal case, the Washington County authorities release these materials. And with that release, came a press release that reads in part, quote, neither Ruby Frankie nor Jody Hildebrandt appealed their convictions for aggravated child abuse. Pursuant to the Utah Government Records Access and Management Act and the practices of this office, all of the case records classified as public are now available. With that, let's get into it.

First up, we are going to start with this absolutely heartbreaking footage from a security camera outside of a home. And it shows RF, Ruby's 12-year-old son, after he escaped from Jody's home and in this video you see him in a long shirt and either what appears to be underwear or shorts going over to this house

walking over to the front door ringing the bell waiting at the door no one answers I mean it appears he's maciate he has these incredibly thin legs looks like blood or wounds are on his legs no shoes he looks incredibly weak but then we actually have this

other video from when our The RF arrived at the neighbor's home, the neighbor who ended up calling 911. Yes. Hi, how is just wondering if you could do two favors? Well, what are they? Taking me to the nearest police station. Well, actually, just one's flying. What's going on, son?

I have a seat there. It's personal business. Have you seen. What's your name? How'd you give you? I... I... I...

...we then see video of these neighbors giving RF food because he was clearly so hungry. He was hungry and... He said he was a hearing his stocking to eat. So he... He escaped. we need the police here now and you remember that now infamous 911 phone call from that neighbor very emotional well here's a different angle here is him on the phone with 911 dispatch but it's captured from his home surveillance camp i just had a 12 year old boy show up here at my front door asking

for help and he's uh says he just came from the neighbor's house and He's amazing. He's got tape around his legs. He's hungry and he's thirsty. Need someone immediately. It's heartbreaking. It's just tough to listen to no matter what angle we're showing that. Let's go to the body cam footage.

That was big in this release. And we're going to start it off with body cam footage of Jody Hildebrand when she is taken out of her home by officers as they are searching her house. Open the door. Jody? I need you step out. I have, I have my turn. That's great. Step out of the house.

No, I'm not going to step out of the house. Stop out of the house. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute, how do you come to my house? Look, they go into my house. Just have a seat right there. Do you have a search warrant? Do you have a search warrant?

Have a seat right there. I'll explain everything after. I'll have a seat right there. We're here on exigent circumstances. circumstances. And I'll explain it after this, after my sergeant and the officer are done clearing the house. Is there anybody else in the house? Yes. Two kids? There's a little girl. Just one? She's right over here. Okay. How old is she? She'll be 10 next week. Okay. Throughout this video, you see Jody almost shocked, trying to fight crime.

You see her at one point sitting on the couch not really doing anything. Police then end up finding a child in what appears to be a closet. Hey, you're okay? Is there's just you in here? I'm Sergeant Tobler. What's your name? I just have one. Where's your sister at?

You okay? Huh? You're doing okay? You don't want to talk to me? Yeah, that's okay. Can you come with me though? We got Jody out here. You know Jody? She's outside with us.

You take your time, but I'm in a hurry. I'm a police officer. Did you know that? I don't mean to hurt you at all. You're okay. do you help now it appears that that is eF RF's younger sister we believe 10 years old at the time and it seems like officers think that she's a boy at first maybe because of her physical condition she was so emaciated and there's a conversation more in these recordings where it seems that Ruby had maybe cut her hair or threatened to cut her hair so that could have contributed to

his wealth but the child doesn't appear to say anything and then you hear an officer describe this horrific situation over his body cam when he's outside. Underneath the tape, as soon as they took it off, you can, even outside, you can smell. You can smell the flesh. And then the transport, or put him in the ambulance. I went in there. They started cutting more off of it. You can see the wounds on the back of his ankles, or on the front of his ankles.

and then on his wrists as well. He said he was tied on the ground with a rope. That's where the wounds came from. Yeah, with ropes on all four of his extremities. And that's where the wounds came from. They put cayenne pepper mixed with honey, he said, on the wounds and then covered that with the plastic surround wrap and then the duct tape over the wounds.

There are a lot more videos too. There is body cam of police gathering evidence. There is body cam of searching a room found behind a giant safe door. There is more body cam where there is no audio. There appears to be a video of maybe RF walking around a cemetery. But I have to call out this very, very disturbing video of RF in the ambulance being treated for his injuries. How did you get the ropes on you? Who did them?

You're not in trouble with me. Okay? We're just trying to figure out what's going on. Our main focus right now is you. Okay. Who put the ropes on you? And I will tell you going through this today was not easy. It is incredibly difficult.

But imagine being one of the first responders to this scene. Here's an EMT worker fighting back tears. Now let's talk about Ruby Frankie, because there is also this video of when Ruby arrives at the house. She was informed the police were there. She shows up, and you see her being patted down, and she just sits on the couch at one point. It doesn't say a word. In fact, she's not very responsive to officers in general.

Place your hand behind you back for me. Perfect. You don't have anything on me that I should know about correct. Any weapons, anything that we're going to find. Before you put you in a police vehicle, we need to search. your person to make sure you don't have anything on you. Is there anything you have on you? Okay. I'm going to search you before we put you in his car. That's just protocol. So I'm just going to have you step right over here and then just widen your waist, widen your stance. Yep,

perfect. Are you wearing a bra? Okay. I'm just going to go like this through and make sure you don't have anything. You say you're not wearing your bra? Okay. Now she admits in one of her jailhouse recordings. Oh, don't worry. We're going to get into those. Where she said she purposely didn't say anything to law enforcement. It seemed like that was the advice that she got from her counsel to not say anything. But even when she's brought to the station, she's not really cooperative. Do you live down here or? Or do you live up north? Do you want to talk to me about where you live or how many kids you have? So we just spoke with your husband and he said you have six kids.

Are those all together? Are those all your kids? I can wait all day. So it's up to you if you want to talk to us about what's going on. I mean, I'm not asking any criminal questions if you don't want to talk to us. Just let us know and we'll be done. I've already told you. You want to order?

Okay. Yes. Easy now. Thank you. When I'm watching this, by the way, I can't help but be reminded of what Ruby said during her sentencing. You might remember this. Remember when she said that she was taught that the world was an evil place and it was filled with cops who control? That might be why she's not saying anything.

That might be why she seems to have. have this distrust of law enforcement or doesn't want to talk to them if she was under that distorted belief there you go let's also talk about the video of jody's interrogation i'm a little nervous you're that you know to be honest with you if i was sitting over there i'd be able to so don't don't worry about it we're just here to talk to your side i watch she made detective movies how do you so i trust my turning he said don't say anything and i said i have nothing to hide He's like, I know that. Just let me be there with you when you talk.

So you guys seem nice people. Yeah. I'm not doing anything. Not trying to be difficult. This is really, if you knew all the pieces, I think you'd have a lot of anything. What's going on? I'd like to just tell you.

But I don't know who you are. I don't know if you're going to flip my words. I don't know. And that's the good thing about cameras. Everything, it's pretty much double-recorded audio, video. and it's for the safety for you and for us because we don't want to flip your words and this will all be pretty much

right there to support you so we're not going to use anything against you. He's an honest, good man. Church, I trust him. Why would he say that to me then? I don't know. I don't know your attorney, be honest. Well, I'm just saying he's a good honest man. And I'm an honest person as well, so we get along great.

And he just said, Do not say anything. I'm a psychologist. I've watched people flip things all the time. So I get it. I sit on your side. I get it. I wish people didn't do that, but they do.

And one of the final videos we got was of officers taking Ruby Frankie and Jody Hildebrand to jail. All right, I'm going to have you stand up all right. Thank you. Go ahead and face this officer. Go ahead and put your hand on top of your head. your finger please thank you just put your hands atop of your head you're good look

to your left okay thank you we'll get we'll get you a card when you can get with Adam schedule that okay we'll give you a card with the phone number you got the front door to my vehicle out there. Hop on it. I'll help you. I'll help you. I had a crash on the right side of my shoulders. Okay.

All right. Step up, please. Thank you. Go and face that officer. Put your hands on top of your head, please. And unless your fingers. Thank you. And go on top of your head.

Look on top of your head. to your left. Thank you. I just don't want to hit you in the head on accident with the cut. Go ahead. Make sure you want to let you know what your criminal charges for so you're under arrest? It's going to be two counts, second degree felony of child abuse or neglect, okay? Do you understand that or no? are you okay i'm wondering if there's like a medical clearance that needs to like do you need medical attention before you go to the jail okay now management there's where any direct custody

of these kids okay give any questions for me at this time no questions okay we can often now we also received a lot of photos from utah authorities in this document dump many of them show the inside and outside of Jody Hildebrand's home and Ivan's. The house itself is huge with staircases, corridors, doors, every direction the police looked at as they searched the home. We never really got a good grasp of what this house was like until now. Some of the photographs show evidence that investigators were compiling against the women, including pictures of the duct tape, rope, gauze, the cayenne pepper and honey solution that they used to treat wounds. other pictures showed pantries full of food

that the children were clearly not allowed to eat and still there were these other photos other photos that showed the actual wounds to both RF and EF and I will tell you they are just too graphic to show they just too much and as we've mentioned RF still had

duct tape on his ankles and wrists when he was taken to the hospital with what appeared to be infected wounds underneath and I'll say this. These wounds, seeing them, worse than I could have imagined. Now, Ruby Franke's journal entries, that's what we're going to get into next. This was one of the largest documents released in this massive information dump. It is a 60-page journal, apparently written by Ruby Franklin. Not only does it give a timeline of events, but it records the brutal treatment of these two

children. Some parts of the journal have been completely blacked out by officials. They've been redacted. But what remains, it really leaves nothing to the imagination. At the beginning of the journal on a page titled Timeline, the journal says that Jody received a blessing from the temple president on May 21st, 2023. Then Ruby, along with her four minor age children, went down to Jody's house to do, quote, spring cleaning. The first mention of punishments for RF are on June 30th, 2023, when the journal states, quote, he refuses to do wall sits and says he's done. The next day, It's noted that RF has to sleep outside. On July 14th, we have our first mention of EF.

It states, E refuses to work, screams, has hair shaved off. It also states that the next day, RF ran away in the middle of the night, and Ruby found him a couple hours later. So clearly not his first escape attempt. So then there are several redacted pages, and then the journal seems to jump back in time to a little bit to July 9th and July 10th. On the 10th, the journal states, quote, it's R's birthday, and he doesn't even know what month it is.

E and R have been in so much deviant behavior, they won't control their bodily functions. They are both furious. Their selfish, sinful lifestyle is being intervened upon. I told R he emulates a snake. He slithers and sneaks around looking for opportunities when no one is watching and then he scurries. If he wants to emulate the Savior,

he needs to be 100% obedient with exactness, no wavering, no hiding. No wonder that the prosecutors said that this was also a form of emotional abuse as well. Really putting the blame on these young children. What do you think they're thinking? Then a few pages later, Ruby writes, quote, E is better behaved with Jody. She likes to think she can still manipulate me. I gave her a pixie haircut.

All her long hair is gone. No more distracting with hair. R told me he would rather have a glass of water. than me as his mother. And we know that both children were being denied food and water. Ruby even writes that R.F. was caught stealing water from the garden hose stealing. Ruby also writes, quote, E told me she figures they had been here eight weeks. I asked E if she felt like she had made progress over the eight weeks.

Yes, I told her she was delusional. She made no progress. She continues to lie and manipulate. Last night, her screaming and headbanging were evidence of no change. By the way, we're talking about a 9, 10-year-old at this time. On July 14th, Ruby writes, quote, E woke up. I reminded her that if she whined, cried, or squinted her eyes at me, or soured her face, I would be buzzing her hair. If she was going to act sick, she can look sick.

She agreed with a smile. I told her because she didn't listen the night before, she would do two sets of boxes and stairs with a five-minute break. She did the first set easily and agreeably. After five minutes of rest, she began whimpering. When she got to the bottom of the stairs, she slipped and dropped the box. I put her in the dog wash and shaved her head, then back to the boxes. This is disgusting. And we also know that Ruby and Jody forced the children to stand outside in the hot sun

in the Utah summer where it can get up to 120 degrees. And in journal entry, Ruby writes, quote, When E was outside today and it was hot, she acted like she was dying, so pitiful. I told her the heat in hell is much hotter than. and God is going to burn the wicked, so either get used to it or start changing. The journal also describes what happened when R.F. ran away in July. He had been made to sleep outside on the patio near Ruby's bedroom. She woke up in the middle of the night and he was gone.

She and Jody both went out in the cars to look for him, and she writes, quote, Then I see R walking on the left side of the road. I called Jody to let her know. I turn the car around and stop. I get out of the car. R is shocked to see me. Get in the car. Are you shocked to see me?

R nods his head and gets in. Me and R in the front. 245, I woke up. Three, we leave in cars. 3.14 a.m. I call Jody with R. The sun started lighting the roads just an hour and a half later. The devil wants me in prison. My children dead.

I meet Jody back home. Ruby continually talks about her children being evil, possessed by demons, and unwilling to repent. She writes about locking them in closets, poking them with a cactus, making them do physical. exercise for hours. She also writes that Jody has been actively looking for land to buy in Arizona where they could really dig into fixing the kids.

Can you imagine if that happened? Would these kids even be alive? But this also, I will tell you from a legal point of view, fills in a lot of those details that we read about in their respective plea agreement documents, the specific details of abuse. And I imagine these entries are what proved what happened to these kids. And it shows how tough it would have been for them to defend themselves at a criminal trial when you have these kind of journal entries, as if the physical injuries and the accounts

that the kids weren't enough, just read this stuff. Look, this is incredibly tough subject matter. And I know I always say it, but I'm going to say it again. It is our privilege to be able to bring you these stories, to break them down for you. And the reason we're able to continually do that is because of the support that we get from our very special partners. And I just want to highlight sponsor of this episode, Morgan and Morgan. Not all law firms are created equal.

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So if you're injured, you can start by easily, submitting a claim at for the people.com slash LC sidebar or by dialing pound law that's pound 529 on your phone. But now we move on to another piece of this document release. And that is when we have to talk about the jailhouse phone calls. These calls are almost always recorded and inmates and defendants, people on the other side of the line, they know this, and yet they say things. But we knew about these calls. Remember? Remember when Eric Clark, the Washington County attorney during Jody's sentencing, alluded to these recorded calls as evidence that Hilda Brand never has showed remorse for what she did?

So in these calls, which are labeled October 17th and October 18, 2023, you hear Jody seemingly defending her actions, and there seems to be a religious justification or rationale. It feels like I was being set up to end up here. I know that sounds bizarre I mean I should be here I haven't done anything wrong and I don't know if I'm going to be like

some kind of example but when I get out of here I have a story to tell and I am going to try to do everything I can to protect the children because that's what's happening is that kids are being just horribly abused so I'm married your dad nobody wants the truth

nobody wants the truth nobody wants the truth because these kids you know I told Doug I woke up, the spirit told It's all the devil, I mean, you've seen him. I mean, I've known you, what, for five years, you've watched him, come at me, come at me, come at me, come at me. And you're exactly right, because he knows, I know what he's doing.

And he uses these kids, and he uses all of us as the adults, the parents that don't hold the kids accountable. So now it's abusive to make a kid sleep on the floor. It's abusive, or it's abusive to, you know, that's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. You can't even raise your kids anymore. He doesn't seem really animated. He seems like, you know, the pictures, the pictures are going to destroy you.

And I'm like, we didn't do that. We didn't do that. Those pictures we did not do. He did that to himself, yes. We put that on him, and then he rubbed around and cut himself, yes. But we didn't do that. Wow. I want you to keep in mind that the idea of the devil and the evil spirit, keep that in mind.

but the idea that either she is not taking responsibility for the injuries of the children or that it's not really abuse, this is why it wouldn't be so surprising if the board of pardons and paroles may not be so quick to release Jody. But the jailhouse phone calls weren't just from Jody Hildebrand. No, no, no, no, no, no. We also heard from Ruby Frankie. And there is a bit of a progression here because listen to what she says when she's first arrested, specifically it seems about the kid's injuries.

And this appears to be calls that she had with Kevin, Frankie, her husband. The day after she was arrested, they're labeled August 31, 2023. This is the witch hunt. I've, the devil's been after me for years. They're going to be in the hospital for three days. So weird. It's just not necessary. I'm trying to exaggerate this.

Well, they didn't show me any pictures or anything with the way they described. It was very serious. So the way that I hear that is she is basically saying the kids' injuries are overblown, which, by the way, if you recall during her sentencing, didn't she say something to the effect of the minute the officers put the cuffs on her? She had been set free. She knew that she did wrong. Something to that effect. That doesn't seem to be consistent because it seems like she was still defensive and justifying what she did in the immediate aftermath of her arrest.

And by the way, remember, as I said before, when she's arrested by law enforcement, she's not that cooperative. She's not even talking to them. By the way, that reference to a witch hunt and that the devil had been out for her for years could possibly be referring to the fact that the Frankies had faced controversy for some time over their videos, the allegations of child abuse. But again, in the first few days of this arrest, you hear Ruby defending not only herself, but Jody and the man on the call with her, Kevin Frankie, or it seems to be Kevin Frankie, seems to be supporting her. But the most upsetting thing is that I am completely misunderstood. That is the most horrible feeling like my own family misunderstands me. They misinterpret me. And poor Jody, they misinterpret her.

They misunderstand her. She puts her neck out on the line for people and then they get mad at her. I mean, it is just horrendous. It's horrendous. And you know what? Every Justice Smith, every wonderful man of God has had to be misunderstood. That's right. And so I'm going to get out of this.

Who knows? Maybe in 10 days I'll get out of this. If the truth prevails right now or, you know, who knows, like 20 years? I don't know. I don't know how long that I'm going to step out. I'm going to say I went through everything. God told me when I was driving before I called you

I didn't have any information I didn't know anything in the spirit said your children are going to be removed truth in our family and I am

committed to our family I'm committed to you and our marriage no matter what happened thank you thank you I will be here

to support you in any way that I can. Well, thank you for stepping up. If she really believes that, yeah. We're going to get to Kevin in just a minute because he has a police interview. But I mentioned how there was this change with Ruby, defending herself, defending Jody. That changed as time went on because this is only the next month labeled October 27, 2023. I really did feel like the rescue, like I just felt so many angels around. It was like a relief.

It was just really kind of surreal. That's consistent with what she said at her sentencing, the brainwashing, her eyes finally, waking up to what she had done and that Jody Hildebrand had controlled and manipulated her, if you believe that. But listen to what Ruby says now in December, 2023, on two separate phone calls.

I could not come out of this without, without his grace, without his mercy, without his help. This has been the strangest and the most miraculous intervention. It put everybody where they needed to be. It separated me from Jody, so I'm not hearing her. And I think just being gone and not hearing her has cleared a lot of things up for me. Did you see that Jody pled guilty today? I did see that. Yes, is that a relief for you?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a big relief. It's a big relief. There would have been positive the other way, too, had she not pled guilty, there's enough evidence that she would have been, could have been convicted for life, but that would have been messy. It would have been really messy. Jody, she can lie on her paperwork, and she probably will.

I don't think she's going to give them her history. But I think in the interview it's going to be apparent that she's mentally ill. And so that will affect how long someone someone's long someone you know because they're looking how how repentant are you how much responsibility are you taking how how are you aware that what you've done is wrong and she's not she's the only reason she pled is because she didn't want to do life she knew I would testify how gullible was I oh my gosh how how much power I gave this person and I didn't He's like, Jody denies everything.

She denies having anything to do with this. And I was shocked. I was like, what? And I'm still telling Lamar, like, you know, all of the justifications and all of the, you know, I'm talking like a criminal. I sound like a mad person. He was so patient with me. He was so patient with me. He would just look at me and, like, kind of dumbfounded.

Like I said, 2 plus 2 is 7, and I really believed it, and he would just stare at me. I'm like, what am I saying? That's so off. But that's because I really believed it. But then when I heard that Jody was not talking like that, she was denying the whole thing, it told me she knew all along. And then I was like, crap, what am I sound? And that's when things kind of started turning.

I was like, she was, she's not been honest. I didn't, I didn't know she wasn't honest. I didn't know she was lying. And it's like, what else has she been lying about? Where else are, have I been deceived? And by the way, Ruby Frankie had already pled guilty by this time. So again, if you believe Ruby, if you take her at her word on this call and what she said during sentencing, then she was completely manipulated by Jody Hildebrand, right?

I do wonder after her mental health evaluation that she referenced and some of this other evidence if it would actually help her to be released earlier than Jody Hildebrand. It's hard to say. She did plead guilty to severely abusing her own children, so manipulation or deception or brainwashing maybe can only go so far. Okay, now moving on in this evidence drop, there were two interviews with Kevin Frankie, Ruby's husband, now a strange husband, he's filed from divorce. One was in person with the police at the Ivan's police station on the day that Jody

and Ruby were arrested and the children were taken to the other. the hospital. And we're going to start with this first in-person interview. The police are trying to piece together exactly what is going on here. Kevin seems to not really know what's going on. He tells the police he got a call that he needed to come pick the kids up in Ivins, but he won't tell them who called him. We learned through Kevin's attorney as the investigation progressed that it was Ruby that called Kevin to say that there was an emergency, but at the time of this interview, he kept that to himself. We actually heard that before when he was speaking to Ruby about how she called him, but let's hear what he had to say to law enforcement.

So are they all living with you or? No, I haven't seen them for over a year. Any of them? No, not of them. For a year? Over a year. Okay. I've been in a separation from who?

From my wife and family. What's your wife's name? Ruby. Rudy. When's the last time I saw Ruby? The last time I saw her. was the 18th of this month we met to she requested me to sign over vehicles or the titles to the vehicles the vehicle that she drives that were all in my name when

the last time you physically saw Russell Eve the day the day that I moved out July 24th of 2022. 24th of 22. Or July 25th, July 25th, July 25th. So it's my understanding that at least home here in Kent and Ivins, have you been to that home? No.

You've not been to that home? No, I don't know. I don't know anything that's been by my home. like this is good man like i would love to be able to help you out with this and like i'm seeing the light of you at home because i'm unaware of your involvement in what's really going on so for you to say that you're unaware of the status of your kids kind of makes i know that sounds kind of crummy to you but it sounds kind of good to me like who lives in that home with your is it ex-wife is you currently a separated wife like who lives in that home with your children

To be honest, I don't know. I know that she's there with four of the children, and our two older children has moved out. Have you communicated with your wife regarding, like, disciplining with your kids, or their care or their physical well-being? No. So is she giving this on her own and just telling you how your kids are? She's not telling me anything about the kids. The investigators ask about Jody Hildebrand, the owner of the home where the children were found. A female Jody that your wife lives with. Do you know a female name Jody? She is a therapist and a life coach, I know, and she's...

Do you respect her? Do I respect her? Yeah, I think she is a very honest, truthful person, yes. Very honest, beautiful person. I want you to marinate on that one for a second as we get to what he says in a future interview. Kevin explains a little bit more about connections and how his wife, Ruby, had got involved with the business. Are you involved with their business efforts? No.

Okay. So just Ruby and Jody. Okay. In that business? Yeah. Yes. Okay. And were you involved in the eight passengers account with your family?

Um, yes, and I was in the videos, and that's what you mean. I briefly learned about this two hours ago. So, did Ruby more so do the videos for the family? Mm-hmm. And how long did you guys do that for? She started the channel in 2015, and as far as I'm aware, And at the time I left, the last video she uploaded was towards the end of 2021. Okay.

And I go out again, I'm not aware of anything she's done since our separation. Kevin continues to insist that he has no idea what could be going on with the kids and says he focuses on the financial side of things. Are you aware of the physical condition of your children? No. No. I've chosen to trust my wife with the children. That was part of the agreement of our separation. Is that you allow her to physically provide for the needs of the child? You just removed from that?

I mean, you pay support. I know there's some personal questions. No, yes, my job is to financially provide for the work. I'm just trying to figure out how much of a role do you play in the caretaking of specifically, is it, of those two kids? I pay the bills with my job I provide the money goes into a shared bank account now this is interesting because Kevin tells police he was dealing with a pornography addiction and that he needed to focus on his problems before returning to be with his family

Jody and Ruby have a close relationship and Jody saw the need for me to get help. And frankly, I agree. The space has been exactly what I need to face face, you know, my own addictions and receive the support and help that I've needed. And so the space has been very, very good for me. So when you stated that you and Ruby have this no contact, that you guys just verbally agreed upon was that an idea given by Jody that she recommended you guys

have that space and not contact one another? I'm not aware of that the invitation for me to leave and take space was from my wife. Again, take note of how he's blaming himself. Remember that? It comes up later on. Well, after more than 20 minutes in the interview room, police finally start to reveal a few details

about what they discovered at this Ivan home. Well, you're the custodial parent of the show. I don't see why. We can't explain to you why we're involved. So I don't recall the exact time, but sometime before 11 o'clock today, we received a phone call from 911 on our dispatch that a 12 to 13 year old boy was knocking on doors in a neighborhood. asking for food and water, that he was severely emaciated, that he had... What is emaciated? Skinny, scrawny, malnutrition, not enough food,

not water to sustain life. So he had... I'm sorry, what? He had duct tape on his extremities, on his hands, on his ankles, and those were covering rope burns that were used to tie him down. Take a second and think about what I just said. That's the condition of your son.

Given that information, your son was taken to the hospital. A warrant has been applied and granted by the Department of Child and Family Services to remove both from your wife's care. So no one right now is going to have access to these two children based on their physical condition. Do you understand that? I understand. Do you, would you condone that behavior?

Would I condone that behavior? That's my job. My job is to find out your knowledge of the treatment of these precious children? No, again, I don't know the details or I don't know what's going on, but as you described, that sounds... Horrible, horrible. Disgusting. No human beings should be treated like that. I, yeah, okay. That's my thoughts, but again, we might be different on that. here for a second, okay? We're going to go out of talk. I'm not saying you're still not

free to kill. Are you under arrest? Absolutely not. We just have lots of questions. We're going to do there. Lots. Okay. Okay. Because... Your children are under medical care right now. And what does that mean? It means that you don't have access to. My understanding is that they are... What is that? They're in the custody, DCFS. And they will be for the next 70. There's a medical hold on them right now, so for at least the next 72 hours, based on our understanding. At least the next 70 hours.

During the observation, they're being watched to make sure they be. DCFS is going to provide you that information, and they can better answer your questions along those lines. That's handled through them. Okay. So we'll be back to these. So I want to think about some things, though. I don't know. Listen to me. Listen to me. Look, a lot of questions have been raised about what Kevin did or did not know about his children.

But the police leave Kevin alone in the interview room for a while where he sits quietly, sometimes crying. When the officer's return, Kevin has a question. What's going to happen with my wife? I love my wife. I don't know. I'm being honest with you. I don't know. Haven't had any interview with you. I don't know if I've got to start this against my life. Possibly? I think given the circumstances, that's highly appropriate.

But again, I don't know your wife. I was hoping to gain some insect from you, but I don't necessarily know that that's something you wanted to... I trust her. A road you wanted to travel down with me, so... And not without legal representation. Yeah, all right, I did it. But I love that wife and I trust my wife.

And so, I mean, this feels like, you know, run over by a steam truck what you're sharing with me today. Yeah, you actually tell you're caught off card. I thought I was just coming here to pick up my kids. And for what, I don't know what or why. I just want my kids. I just want my kids. Now, Kevin was never in custody.

was never in custody. He left shortly after this. He's never been criminally charged. He's never been named as a suspect. But at a later date, Kevin had an interview with law enforcement again, and he told a very different story. Kevin seems to explain that Ruby started to speak to Jody at the end of 2018, early 2019, with the intention of her being a therapist for either one or more of the children. Some of the call is bleeped out, but that's probably why. and then you're going to listen to what happened next. Jody always had a larger interest in communicating with the parents more than with the actual patient, which I've always found curious.

But her theory was if you want to help your child, you have to help yourself first, and then you'll know how to help the child. So she spoke with Ruby frequently. It got strange around the fall of 2020. The Hannas were trying to convince and bring Ruby into... Thank you. Thank you. Into this organization called Connections.

and that particularly were focused on things like lust versus love and healthy marriages, happier marriages, happier relationships. She invited me to go to a, it was like a conference or something held at Thanksgiving Point in Lehigh. And my impression at that time was this is absolute craziness. This is a bunch of man-hating women that are just looking for excuses to tear down their husbands. And, I mean, that's what it felt like to me when I was in there. But it was confusing because there were people that I respected a lot that were up on the stage with microphones in hand, and, you know, giving testimonials of how great this was

and how it changed their lives and their marriage and like the Hannahs were among them, you know, and so, yeah, it was confusing. Assuming this is all true, by the way, this provides context on how the relationship started with Jody and how and why Kevin started becoming involved. And he talks about how he would join the men's groups, but he was questioning it. He didn't really think that he did anything wrong.

And when he talks about that, he then refers to having a deep conversation with his wife, Ruby. For two hours, Ruby, very emotionally, just shared how she felt in our marriage and how the things that I, over 20 years of marriage, you know, asking for sex as a husband frequently or asking her to wear lingerie or things like that, how that made her feel. and it was really emotional and it touched me like i didn't realize that she felt so strongly about that she felt so hurt by that and so i committed that i would really give it a go and i stayed in the men's group and so you know in that men's group i met with jody every week and from there he goes on to talk about a passengers the youtube channel how it fell apart particularly after the release of the infamous video of their son Chad revealing he'd been forced to sleep on a beanbag

for months. He says they lost 90% of their income when this channel basically fell apart. And he said how Ruby became so distraught over this, how she found validation in Jody Hildebrand. But he also said that things were actually going very well with him and

Ruby. They were less intimate, but they were closer. So he started to think that this whole connection stuff may be working and he was happy to be the guy on stage. He believed in it. Which I want you to think about because, again, you're going to hear where he's questioning everything that Jody did and everything Ruby believed in. But he's also the same guy who just heard earlier kind of giving different answers to police in his initial interview. Just something to think about.

But he does say in this interview that things took a turn when Jody revealed something at a dinner after a connections conference. We went out to like a dinner afterwards. And that's where Jody really opened up to the women in a private conversation that she believed she was being tormented and haunted by shadow figures every night. And that was spooky. Then he seems to suggest that these connections members picked Jody up and had her live with them for six weeks. Doesn't know what happened but says that there were two different. different sides of this event, you've got to listen to this. According to Jody, she was held against her will for six weeks and was kidnapped and got out.

According to the Hanna's, after six weeks of Jody stabbing herself with forks and knives cutting herself and wanted to commit suicide and trying to seduce the husband of the family, they kicked her out. I don't know what's the truth is where I heard. maybe a little bit of both, I don't know. But the point is, somewhere around mid-April, Jody was back in her home and Ivans, and she was a hot mess. Yeah, that's something. So he says after this,

Jody was a wreck and asked Ruby for help. Listen to what happened when they went to Jody's house for the first time in 2021, and how bizarre this is. I got to say, like, I'm a smart guy. I'm an engineer, I've designed and helped build some really big stuff, I'm a college professor. I can't explain some of the stuff that happened while we were there, like crashes in the basement while we were talking upstairs and plates like in the kitchen just flying off by themselves. full speed smashing on the wall and then falling to the floor by themselves.

I can't explain it, but I saw it with my own eyes, and I don't have any way to explain another thing. There's some crazy shit going on. Wow. A supernatural element to this was not something I was expecting. Aside from there, according to Kevin, by the way, this is bizarre stuff. Ruby was convinced that they could help Joe. and intervene, and an idea came up about why doesn't Jody just live with them? Kevin says he was very resistant to that idea, but he was told he was being insensitive and selfish, so he ended up agreeing.

But listen to what he says happened when she showed up at their home. The moment she showed up in my house, just the weirdest crap started happening. Lights turning on and off, sounds of people walking in walls and sounds like footprints going up walls and across the... the ceiling and stuff floating around and it was just it was weird and i hated it look i don't know what any of this means it is just bizarre and it is wild to hear but what does kevin say happened next he said he became the resident exorcist in the house yeah that jody had trances visions that she went into possession that ruby would go in and

and check on her and that progressed into Ruby even sleeping in the same bed with Jody. And Kevin made sure to highlight that Ruby, Jody, and Pam Botcher, we have mentioned before here on Sidebar. This was another Connections employee. Actually, Ruby's middle daughters were staying with Pam and her husband when Ruby was arrested. But Ruby, Jody, Pam, according to Kevin, they would do these interventions where they locked themselves in a room for four to five hours. and then they would be on cloud nine and Ruby would say that wow, you know, they had this or Jody had this amazing vision

and we have to do God's work. By the way, Pam Botcher has never been criminally charged with anything in this case. However, earlier in the interview, Kevin did say that she is tied to all of this. So then Kevin says that at one point Jody got upset that during an intervention, Chad, their son, was in the backyard with his friends

and to turn to this whole big thing And that is when he says Ruby for the first time mentioned the separation. And he talks about what an in-home separation looked like. It was hard. Basically, there were all these rules now placed on me. Like, I could leave when I wanted, but I couldn't come back until Ruby gave me permission. I couldn't come into the kitchen to eat until Ruby gave me permission. And the upstairs where Jody roamed was completely awful.

I couldn't go upstairs anymore in my own house. and there would be Ruby would dictate all of the terms of how our interactions would be when we would talk and that was hard and it was during that time that I really became

I would say dependent upon Ruby like if she said a kind word to me like my whole day was made right Kevin talked about how there was an apparent effort for Jody to gain control of the eight passengers' brand, the channel, and give nothing to Ruby in return, and how their YouTube manager was like, this is a red flag, Jody is scamming you, so Kevin says Ruby fired the YouTube manager and threatened Kevin with another separation.

She allegedly claimed that this is not about money, but doing God's work. All the while, Ruby went on trips with Jody and Pam, and he goes on to say how his interactions with Jody became more strained, that she isolated him, that she told him he can't be a part of the men's groups, that he needs to be alone with God. Says he started to question his sanity after all of this. And then there was this very weird interaction with Ruby.

Around that time, things with Ruby started, like, picking up. And I didn't understand why, but, like, Ruby wanted to meet in a parking lot and wanted me to sign over titles of documents, like the two of our cars wanted me to sign them over to her name. Two would be? But I was like, okay, you know, I'm just not, I'm in total compliance mode at this point. Just like, I'm a good husband, you see, you can trust me.

And so whatever she asked, like, sign over the cars to me. No question, it's just, okay. And then another thing, she was like, I might want to do an investment, but I will need your signature. Do you trust me enough that I could get your signature if I wanted to pursue my own investment?

Yeah, sure. Whatever you say? How big an investment? What she talking about her? Did she tell you? She never did. And I never signed anything. She never brought anything to me.

But when I returned to the house, everything was packed up. And a neighbor came over and said, she asked for the HOA rules and mentioned to him that she wanted to rent the house out, which was like, are you kidding me? and he apparently she wanted to sell the house but couldn't because my name was on the mortgage and I think I think that's what she was talking about of will you sign something if I just put it in front of you and you know what I probably would have like that's how messed up I was I'm glad you didn't me too that would have been disastrous but I can't describe to you what torture and hell it was to live an entire

it was more than a month really in complete isolation believing that I was like evil and I mean manipulative and lying and selfish and I that I had abandoned my family and that I was more interested

in my selfishness than my family. Now, in one of the recorded phone calls between Ruby and Kevin, Ruby says in light of the separation, she was thinking of ways to make money. Maybe that's why she wanted him to sign over stuff. But moving to the kids, we know that Ruby and Kevin were separated.

Kevin acknowledged that he had no idea what was happening with the kids during this summer period, that he was made to believe everything was blissful and good from Ruby. He says he still didn't understand how he was being accused of abandoning his family. because he was like, I want to be with my family.

And then, of course, we know how everything went down. But there is one more nugget from this interview that I have to share. And it is about what was found at the Ivan's home of Jody Hildebrand when she and Ruby were arrested. When the warrant was issued, there was a back with $85,000 cash in it. And I understand her lawyer, Ruby's lawyer, has all that I'm not which home are we talking about Ivan the Ivan's home we we don't know we the money was left where it was left we didn't take it

we had people with this the house and secured them we left we're assuming that Lamar one word yeah he has retreat but we don't I can't tell you yeah so here's kind of the issue that money she cleaned out their bank accounts the kids savings and yours too your joint account yeah that's where that money came from so i don't know if you can have or if i need to have a discussion with the county attorney kevin would kind of like his kid's money back yeah so it would be civilly so i would go address that oh yes that is something we didn't know before little discussion there about whether ruby frankie would be criminally charged for allegedly taking money away from

from her family. There you have it. That is a summary of what has been released today. We are actually planning on doing more episodes that can dig deeper into each piece of evidence. So I want you to be on the lookout for that. We're going to get into that next week. In the meantime, I think the most appropriate place to end this whole conversation is with a

statement from the Washington County Attorney's Office upon the release of these materials. It states, quote, the Washington County Attorney's Office is grateful for the law enforcement officers, medical personnel, caseworkers, children's justice center staff, and others who are instrumental in ensuring the children's safety and administering justice to their abusers. That's all we have for you here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. As always, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber.

I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this law and crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.