Law&Crime Sidebar - ‘She Deserves to Die’: Accused Child Killer Tiffanie Lucas Slammed by Victim’s Stepmother

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

The Kentucky mom accused of shooting her young children, ages 6 and 9, entered a not guilty plea in court this week. Tiffanie Ann Lucas is being held on a $2 million bond. The Law&Crime Network’s Jesser Weber spoke with the stepmother of one of the victims, Michelle Rice, who says her family will accept nothing less than the death penalty for Lucas.HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. They were just, they were great little boys. Like, I don't understand how someone, like, just even knowing them could do something like that. A plea is entered. The judge rules on bond and the reports of a misidentified body? We're talking about the developments in the case of Tiffany Lucas, the Kentucky mother accused of killing her two young sons, and we are discussing all of this with the stepmother of one of these slain boys. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. We've covered this case extensively here on Sidebar,

case of 32-year-old Tiffany and Lucas, who is currently behind bars in Bullitt County, Kentucky. after her two sons, six-year-old Maurice Baker Jr. and nine-year-old Jaden Howard were found shot in her home. A Bullet County Sheriff's Detective Richard Beale testified during a recent court appearance that two neighbors, a husband and a wife, called 911 after hearing gunshots back on November 8th. He'll explain that after reviewing nearby doorbell footage, you can hear four gunshots that were fired within 30 seconds, and then about five minutes after the last shot, Lucas leaves the home. yells for help, even tells a neighbor that her kids were dying, that neighbor apparently ran inside and tried to help the boys. The boys were rushed to a children's hospital, but sadly, they both died. When police got there, Lucas allegedly was lying in her neighbor's driveway.

She told the cops that the shooting was an accident, that she said someone had given her a gun, but she said that she would never have done something like this unless someone, quote, manipulated her. To add to that, Detective Beale testified that Lucas, quote, made statements that, that she was being manipulated through Facebook, through the internet, or through Wi-Fi. Now, on Monday, Lucas appeared in court again, this time pleading not guilty to two counts of capital murder. And the judge also asked her about an attorney. Ma'am, you are before the court for arraignment.

Do you have an attorney to represent? No. Do you wish to apply for appointment of an attorney? Sure. Yes. Yes, sir. The judge upheld her $2 million bond and announced a trial date will be set for early 2024. Lucas will have a status hearing in January to find out who exactly from the public

defender's office will be representing her, and then an actual trial date will likely be set at a pretrial conference scheduled for March. All right, so with all of that in mind, joining us today to talk about these latest court developments, but more importantly, to talk a little bit more about Maurice and Jaden, is Michelle Rice, six-year-old Maurice's stepmother, and Michelle, I told you this before we came on air. First of all, following the case from the beginning, I've heard what you have to say about it. I can't tell you how much we appreciate you coming on to talk about this case in the middle of everything going on. But I just want to say, again, I am so sorry for what you have lost. I'm so

sorry for what your family is going through. It's unimaginable. And in the midst of this, to come on to talk about, I know is not easy. So we very much appreciate it. No. The first thing I just want to ask is how you doing? how you doing how's the family doing um we're okay um you know it's a big change on all of us um so unexpected um it's just i really can't put into words you know how much it's affected us and and things like that um we talk about it all the time still we think about it all the time it's just, I don't think it'll ever kind of change.

It'll be the same for us, you know, from the way it is now. Before we even get into any of the case or what's going on, I look at the pictures of these boys, Maurice and Jaden, and they look like the sweetest, most innocent boys. They looked like they were so full of life. The one thing that we haven't been able to understand is just who they were, what they were like. So what were Maurice and Jaden like?

They were, sorry. Oh, it's okay. I understand. They were the sweetest little boys. They were so polite. They were happy. They both, they did both love playing the video games and stuff like that. Little Reese, he loved, we called him Little Reese.

He loved playing soccer and love playing outside and riding his bike and stuff like that. They were just, they were great little boys. Like, I don't understand how someone, like, just even knowing them could do something like that. Like, there's no, it's so hard for me sometimes to explain or talk because it's just so not understandable. And look, it's also fresh. I mean, this just happened. So it's completely understandable. What was your relationship like with them?

What did you guys do together? How often did you see them? Um, so I saw him, um, I was around since he was born. We saw him as much as she led us. Um, it was always an issue with her. It was never normal. Tiffany. You mean Tiffany. Yeah. Um, the pickup and drop off was never normal. The times were never consistent. It just, things were hurt with her, just they weren't normal. Nothing was normal. She kept him from so much. Things we, used to try to do for him birthday parties, Christmas. During those times, she would purposely keep him. We threw big birthday parties for Christmas time. He wouldn't get his presents till around Valentine's Day. So when we did get him, we would try to keep him, you know,

for as long as we could before she, you know, went into whatever crazy stage she would go into, you know. A lot of people see the social media side of her, and that's just the social media side. It's not really how she was, you know, off the camera, you know, versus how, like, personal relationship you would see her really at or see the crazy side of her. So when you say that, you mean, because I remember, like, there was a photo that she posted of her and the kids, like on Halloween right before this, you're saying that was all an act? Definitely.

She did things because she wanted people to see her as a certain way. But that's not really how she was. That's just how she wanted to be seen as, you know, like on social media. Nobody really knew, you know, behind the scenes of her, like her drug issues. She never had a job, she never worked, things like that. Like the boys were taken from her previously when they were, when they were, when they were smaller do drugs things like that but they were given back you know the court we tried to reach out to cps they let us down um they didn't follow up they said what we said

wasn't strong enough drugs um leaving the kids at home by themselves things like that um but they you know they wouldn't follow up with things like that and these boys were you know two three four they're only three years apart so they were very you were very young during this time that we were reaching out to CPS things like that they did nothing nothing has CPS reached out to you since this has happened because I know that's been a big point of conversation that they apparently didn't do enough yeah they no they have not do you plan on taking any kind of legal action against them um possibly yeah we're we're we're we probably will you mentioned the fact that uh lucas wouldn't allow the boys or wouldn't allow

maurice um to to see you or to hang out with you guys and to do what was her justification did she just not pick up the phone did she go to the door you go to the door and she just wouldn't answer i mean what did she say i'm not allowing him to come out of the house for whatever reason like what why would she not allow him to see all of the above there was no there i mean there's no reason he had i mean he had a home here he had a room here he has family here um he has a father he has me he has his little brother here she didn't want him to have a relationship with his little brother she just she really like tried to to take really like as much away from risa she could she was very very selfish very selfish it was never about like making rice

happier, what, you know, could have made Reese happy, it was more about what she was happy with or what she didn't want him to have or what she didn't want him to experience with us. I'm going to ask you the big question here. Why do you think this happened? I mean, if she really did this, you talked about drug issues, you talked about the difference, why would she kill her own children? I honest, I can't tell you why, but I would say just out of selfish reasons. And she was competent.

She was very aware of what she did. She knows what she did. Even the emotion, she shows no emotions. She goes on camera. She has that same look is that same look she always has. That nasty, just, you know, she's not a person you can really get along with consistently. She's very inconsistent. did she ever give any indication she didn't want to be a mom um she get along so indication not

literally saying i don't want to but there was times where yes she um wouldn't when maybe it was her time to get little respect she wouldn't pick up the phone or um you know she would like i say be on drugs and be gone for a month at a time and wouldn't pick up the phone so there there's things that kind of like she she had options he had family he had us he had you know she just didn't want anything good for him you know because it was about her not not him she she's come out and said uh through the detective who testified that you know she allegedly said this was an accident that someone gave her a gun that she was in a bad spot that she was manipulated what do you make of those claims um excuses just something to say because

to me that like an accident um like that there's no accident how you don't there's no accident like you can't accidentally do that there's two two of your baby boys that you intentionally killed you went to the neighbors you told them that like she was competent she knew exactly what she did and I believe that's what she wanted like she knew what she did do you have any idea what she's talking about that she was manipulated through Wi-Fi or the internet or Facebook or whatever that means I have no idea what that could mean honestly what about the fact that she had this gun like do you know where she would have gotten it from or anything because she said someone gave it to her um I believe probably one of those guys maybe

she dealt with like I said she didn't have a job or anything so her ways of making money or you know escorting ways whatever you know maybe something like that you know you you know that she was escorting to make money yeah pretty much yeah she never had a job i mean how else do you make money without a job you know um did you ever did you ever see anything like this is it did she say to anybody that she was doing this she she yeah she um we've seen like um things like that i believe she left her email up before um and she left her email up on a computer she was using and and it was in her emails and stuff like that um and it's it's known you know like people who know her know things like that did she have any mental health issues other than drug

abuse, anything you know about? No. And you've talked about the concerns. You spoke to CPS. You said that she was abusing drugs. And just to reiterate, their response sounds incredibly inadequate. I mean, why, what else did they need? And let me go back.

You said the kids were taken away from her at one point. Why were they taken back? Why were they taken away? And how did she get them back? They were taken away. She, obviously, she tested positive for drugs, and she got them back. There's ways, you know, to work the system, of course, and she worked the system, and she got them back, and then there was no follow-up, which I don't understand either, because if they would have, then I'm sure they would have found something. Their living conditions inside the house were crazy.

I never would have thought that it looked like that, honestly. But it looked horrible. It looked really bad. Did Reese or Jaden ever say anything to you that they're concerned about their mom? They're worried about where they're living. Anything that they talked about their mom in any way? No. So when little Reese was little, you know, as a young child, you don't really know what not to say.

So he was the one that was letting us know, like, He was being left at home with just his brother or being left alone in the car with his brother and mom locks the car, you know, things like that. So we were aware of things, you know, then things she was into and things like that. So it was, it's not like, oh, this, we kind of know her background, not kind of. We know her background and stuff like that. So did you ever have the chance to confront her about what's been going on? No. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I understand you were in court this past week when she was brought in. What did you make of her demeanor? Careless. To me, she looks like, like, yeah, I did it. And, like, you know, she has that eyebrows raised, you know, selfish look on her face and that look has since i used to pick up and drop off with little Reese that's her that's her look always very nasty she it was never easy you know dealing with her

anything like that ever so michel as i'm sure you know um she's charged with two counts of capital murder she could be eligible for the death penalty if she's convicted is that something that you would want most definitely anything less would be a slap on the wrist most definitely and it's it's you know this this trial if it goes to trial it's going to be a process it's going to be a long process unless you somehow takes a deal if a deal was offered for life in prison um but you know that it doesn't go to trial would that be something that you would accept or you would tell the prosecutors this is you know not something that we're okay with no we we want the death penalty that's that's what we want she deserves to die like definitely Michelle I have to ask you about this other

aspect um as if this case you know wasn't heartbreaking enough we're hearing that there was some sort of mix up between the children's hospital and the coroner's office regarding Reese's body can you talk to us what happened here so for some reason um reese's little reese um side of the family wasn't given the opportunity to identify the bodies and so when we had private arrangements for little reese when we went in it was jaden laying there and little reese's you know, attire and casket and everything like that. And we called the coroner. And for somewhere, which we're not getting information,

back and forth, back and forth, we're not getting good information on this. We don't know, you know, who identified them, first off, and why they were tagged or, you know, what information. was put on them why it happened that way. Because nobody can identify them, but the family, I mean, nobody else would know them, you know. Yeah, so the way I understand is the coroner's office told local media, Wave News,

that it's on Children's Hospital, Norton Children's Hospital. It's their responsibility to tag the boys correctly before they go to the coroner. The hospital told Wave that they didn't know how this happened and they're looking into it. What do you make of that? It doesn't make sense because I don't understand why I would. we weren't given a chance to identify his body because there's the mistake so whatever process there is for the family to identify the body it was skip it was it wasn't it wasn't taken seriously they just i don't know how how do you just say this is him and this is him without no you don't

know them like you can't just identify a person and you don't know them the steps weren't taken properly. Have you eventually had the opportunity to see Reese? Yes, yes. So that day, they did take care of that and we did handle getting them switched back. Just another. I'm so sorry. You had to go through that as well. Look, Michelle, I don't want to take too much more of your time. This is incredibly difficult to talk about. What do you want everyone to know? As this case progresses, and clearly talking about Reese and talking about Jaden as a way to keep their memory alive. And I like the opportunity to talk more about them and who they were. But what would you like people to know as this story continues?

I just want everyone to know that they were sweet little boys. They didn't deserve it and that she deserves the death penalty for this because there's no reason behind them not being able to be here. and celebrate Christmas today with us and, you know, go to school and live their life. Now, Michelle, my understanding is there's something that you're doing in Reese's memory, right? Yeah, so for his kindergarten class, we're getting the boys and girls some Christmas gifts, and we're giving, throwing like, we're calling it a Rees' Christmas day for him, because we know, like, how much he loved going to school and he loved his friends. and things like that.

So we're going to do a day for them and give them Christmas gifts and stuff like that. That's amazing. That's amazing. It's always an incredibly difficult thing, but especially now during the holidays coming up, I can only imagine how difficult it is for you

and the families. Michelle Rice, thank you so much for coming on, talking more about this. And I just want you to know that I'm sending my best wishes to all of you right now as you go through with this.

But thank you so much. No problem. Thank you. And that is all we have for you right now here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time.

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