Law&Crime Sidebar - ‘Significant Evidence’: Andrew Tate's Alleged Victims’ Attorneys Want UK Investigation Reopened

Episode Date: October 21, 2023

Women who claim Andrew Tate raped them are calling for him to face consequences in the United Kingdom and beyond. Tate remains confined in Romania after being accused of human trafficking. The Law&Crime Network’s Jesse Weber speaks with attorneys Matthew Jury and Jack Beeston, who represent some of Tate’s alleged victims, about their requests to the Crown Prosecution Service.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:You can get Magic Mind at: https://www.magicmind.com/lawcrime with LAWCRIME20. You also get up to 56% off your first subscription or 20% off your one time purchase. That’s LAWCRIME20 for 56% off.HOSTS:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberAngenette Levy: https://twitter.com/Angenette5LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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log on to magicmind.com slash law and crime and use the code law crime 20. Doing so will save you as much as 56% over 10 days. I look at the world today and me, with all of my resource and intellect, feels a distinct sense of unease. I can't sleep very well anymore. There are too many lies, too much I don't understand. We sit down with the attorneys representing some of the victims of social media influencer Andrew Tate. What actions they're taking to hold Tate legally responsible and what Tate's team has seemingly been doing to fight back. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber.

Now, for those of you who have been following us here on Sidebar, you know that we have been carefully covering the Andrew Tate legal situation. Tate, of course, is a former professional kickboxer, self-help guru, social media star, who along with his brother Tristan and two women, were arrested back in December of last year out in Romania. And then in June of this year, they were charged with rape, human trafficking, and forming a criminal gang to exploit women. The prime allegation, according to the local Romanian investigative agency, is that the brothers operated a webcam business that created an, quote,

organized crime group with the purpose of recruiting, housing, and exploiting women by forcing them to create pornographic content. There are reportedly seven alleged victims in that case, but the Tate's are currently awaiting trial and they have denied all the allegations. But there are women in the UK who have accused Andrew Tate of sexual assault and abuse. And with that in mind, joining me right now are Matthew Jury and Jack Beeston from McHugh jury and partners, the firm representing some of these alleged victims. Gentlemen, thank you so much for coming on.

First of all, Matthew, got to start with you. Matthew Jury, as the last name, it really sounds to me like you had no choice. to become a lawyer. Is that what was going on with your parents? Well, yeah, I think it's nominative determinism in action. Yeah, yeah. It is my real name. Okay. It's not a stage name or anything like that. Not a stage name. All right. So first of all, I'm very happy to have you both here. Matthew, I want to start with you. For people who don't know, if you can briefly explain

some of the allegations from your clients, and my understanding is you represent four alleged victims of Andrew Tate here, correct? Yeah, that's right. So we represent four English victims of alleged crimes by Andrew Tate here in England in this jurisdiction. Three of them, all of them allege serious physical and sexual assaults, three of them allege rape. Thru line between all of them, the modus operandi, the alleged modus operandi is all of them in their statements will testify to Kate allegedly strangling them to the point that the blood vessels in their eyes burst. and that they lose consciousness. And in the cases of those individuals who were alleged rape,

he would do that then carry on having sex with them. So that's what, that's the common pleading across all four cases. Hey, are you looking for some more true crime content, aren't we all? Well, if you haven't already, you got to check out one of the best that there is, and that is the True Crime Garage podcast. True Crime Garage is going to be your next binge listen. How do I know that? Well, each week, the garage guys cover a new case featuring missing persons cases,

cold cases, solve stories, and serial killer profiles. You can search and listen to True Crime Garage on Apple, Spotify, all the best podcast listening apps. And of course, for more information, you can go to True CrimeGarage.com. And Jack, I want to go to you, other than their accounts, what other evidence do they have to back this up? And I want to also ask you, these are four independent accounts, right? It's not as if these four accusers came forward, had a conversation with each other about or sharing details.

This is their independent assessments of what happened to them. And then you're seeing that the similarities between their accounts. Let's first start there. Am I right about that? Yes, broadly, you are. Two of the claimants were knew each other. experience what they experienced simultaneously. One, in fact, was an eyewitness to alleged crimes committed against the other. So their testimonies support each other and

were reported to the police. And then there are two separate individuals who are whose stories and accounts are factually different, but their experiences are similar in some fairly significant ways, as Matt explained. And just to follow up, what other evidence besides, you know, the corroboration of these witnesses or people who, you know, shared these similar experiences, what other corroboration do these, your clients have to prove what happened to them? Sure. I mean, I have to be a bit careful about what I say, because particularly in this case, and as we've seen in America, there is a quite real threat of harassment and intimidation of witnesses and individuals who speak out against Tate. But we have, over the past nine months or so, been speaking to a variety of corroborating witnesses, collecting their testimony, and on top of that, we have various other pieces of evidence, including messages, voice notes, etc., which have come directly from Tate himself and statements made by the claimants contemporaneously when they first went to the police.

So there's significant evidence. It all supports exactly what our clients told us when we first met and first spoke with them. And it paints pretty traumatic picture of the alleged crimes that Andrew Tate committed. And just to follow up on that, I believe there's a text message or WhatsApp message. allegedly from Tate saying to one alleged victim, I love raping you. You mentioned voice notes that were portally sent by Andrew Tate to an alleged victim.

My understanding is these voice notes were sent to the UK police. Here's a sampling of them. Am I a bad person? Because the more you didn't like it, the more I enjoyed it. I fucking loved how much you hated it. Turn me on. Are you seriously so offended? I strangled you a little bit.

You didn't fucking pass out. Chill the fuck out. Jesus Christ. I thought you were cool. What's wrong with you? Matthew, again, I wanted to have you both here because what we are seeing a little bit online and I think people want to know is how can you authenticate that that is in fact Andrew Tate? It sounds like Andrew Tate or those who are saying perhaps it was spliced together. How do we know what the context is?

When you listen to those voice notes, what do you want people to know that how do they know that that? is, in I guess your estimation, definitive proof of what happened here. So obviously, if and when this comes to trial, we could bring in a voice recognition, voice analyst expert to take a sampling of Tate's voice. Obviously, there's numerous samples of that online and compare it to the voice and the voice notes. I would say that that's completely unnecessary, however. The provenance of the voice notes is, is easy to authenticate. It's already been through police hands and chain of evidence.

It's evidently him. You know, this talk about, if there's talk about faking the voice, this voice note was created 10 years ago. You know, this was at a time when that technology, if it existed, certainly wasn't available to the general public. It's a nonsense to suggest it's some sort of fabrication.

Almost as nonsensical as Tate saying that these victims don't exist at all that somehow agents of the Matrix, it's just crazy stuff. Yeah, Jack, so again, what would be the context of this conversation? Why would Tate seemingly be saying these things to these women? I feel as though he, you know, without wishing to sort of act like a psychologist, he seems to derive. I guess my question is not to get into his mind.

What was the, why was he saying this thing? was being said to him? What was the conversation between him and your client or several of these clients to release these messages, to send these messages, to say these things on the voice notes? I don't, I'm not sure I understand what the conversation was about. So it was essentially a conversation in which our client having extricated herself from the situation that she had been in with Tate had essentially confronted him after he'd begun by messaging her out of the blue with some, you know, I can't remember the exact context, but essentially he messaged her on prompted. This is something that I think anyone with any personal experience of Tate seems to suggest that he does often, if you're sort of in his phone book, he will pop up with, messages every now and then, just to, I don't know, seemingly almost mess with our client.

And when she confronted him about the messages, he essentially intimated that the more she didn't enjoy it, the more he did, and that she was essentially complaining about about nothing and that he gained immense pleasure from it. So they're pretty hard read and they're hard to listen to. And again, it seems to be part of a kind of wider way in which he operates, or operated at that time, particularly with women. Now, Matthew, I want to get into what your firm is doing right now because let's first start from the criminal aspect my understanding is and

correct me if i'm wrong is that the uk government the uk police and prosecutors believe that there wasn't enough there to actually prosecute andrew tate for these alleged crimes that the idea was that while he was arrested they dropped the case because they felt that they there was maybe it was the idea that there had been consensual sex between tate and these alleged victims or that there was doubt in the case let's first start there about why he was wasn't ultimately prosecuted? Sure. So to start with, just to explain in the briefest possible way, so the way it works here in the UK is that the police will obviously carry out their investigation, and then they will make their own decision as to whether to refer the case to the Crown Prosecution Service.

And the Crown Prosecution Service, the CPS, ultimately makes a decision whether to prosecute or not to move forward with the prosecution. To be very, very clear, we met with the police and had a long conversation with them. And one thing I can say is they were very clear to us and explicit to us that it was their view that there was sufficient evidence to warrant a prosecution, but ultimately the CPS went in another direction and they could not give us an explanation as to why. The CPS has yet to give us an explanation as to why also, despite us requesting one. All I can say is, you know, from 20 years of experience litigating, certainly in the civil courts, but also being involved in criminal prosecutions, it beggars belief that the decision was made not to prosecute based on the evidence that was available. I mean, I'm not really sure what more the CPS needs when they have an eyewitness to a rape, text messages from the suspect saying, I love raping you, along with additional collaboration.

evidence. And even now, let's put it this way, to a certain extent, our client's claims are vindicated in as much as there are now similar complaints having been made in Romania of rape and other criminality. Now, of course, you know, that trial in Romania is yet to go ahead and there's a presumption of innocence, but these are claims from 10 years ago and claims also being made now. So what I would be saying to the CPS is I think it's time to revisit your decision. And are you, you petitioning them to reopen the criminal investigation? Yes, very much so. And what's the status of it, if you can tell us? Ongoing.

Ongoing. Okay. So now, Jack, in the civil arena, your firm hasn't filed a civil action, a lawsuit against Andrew Tate at this point. Am I correct? And if so, why? I think it's obviously important that you prepare your case properly and that you get all the evidence that you can and that you might need before filing. That's just, you know, that's just good procedure. What I can say is that we are, we will be filing the case very, very soon. The process has already begun. Any claims that there's no ongoing civil case against Tate in the UK, well, perhaps technically correct in that there isn't a claim number and the case hasn't yet been looked

at by the court is factually and in reality completely incorrect because that work has begun and is far along. My understanding also, Jack, is that there might be a fundraiser that has been. started. Can you talk to us about that? Yeah, of course. So starting, commencing legal proceedings in the UK is not cheap. You know, you have to pay for court fees. You have to, you know, instruct the right experts and do a lot of preliminary work with the aim of building as stronger cases you can if you if you hurry the process and you try to do it on the cheek you end up um with a case that can be liable to be um you know struck out or you get yourself tied in knots

trying to amend your pleadings and all those sorts of things down the line so that's not how we litigate cases um and that's not really how it should be done and and you know our clients um are unable to pay for their fees themselves um sort of feel that they shouldn't have to either, given their experiences and the failings of the criminal justice system. And so they have a crowd funder on a website called Crowd Justice, in which they are raising money to fund the initiation of the proceedings. And by the way, Matthew, I also understand that there was a press conference that was held with also the lawyers that are representing Tate's alleged U.S. victims, and Andrew Tate's

legal and PR team crashed it. I think we have a clip of it if we can show a little bit of it. Ali, I'll just ask for a few. You'll sit in the communique of press, that the Maggiore and Partner, reclamatele in the action legal in the Marea Britannia, have demarled a crowdfunding

for I'd pay taxed legale. These, I'd respectuos, that all the relatators on this subject to include a link to page of their crowd justice and then then link. This is the communicator,

is a communique. Can you talk to us about what happened there? Yeah, I mean, I've never experienced anything like it. We, we alongside U.S. Council, who are representing U.S. victims of Tate's alleged crimes, we hosted a press conference in Romania to ensure that the Romanian press and the Romanian people were probably informed about proceedings in the U.S. and the U.S. and the U.K., but also were properly informed and the public were properly informed about a campaign of harassment and intimidation of the victims by Tate and his team.

So in the US, legal proceedings, which I would say amount to an abusive process, had been brought against one of the victims for defamation. This victim is a witness in the Romanian proceedings. Tate's already attempted to have witnesses in the Romanian proceedings criminally prosecuted for what he says are false claims to the Romanian authorities. that was thrown out by the Romanian courts last week, I think it was last week, but certainly recently. And he's attempting to do the same thing in the US, but also trying to pressure those victims and clients, victims and witnesses to back off and back away. It's a pretty blatant

abuse of process, in my opinion, and should never be countenanced. So the press conference was about harassment and intimidation. And ironically, Hayt's team decided to use that opportunity to disrupt the press conference by posing as journalists and asking inappropriate questions, which at the same time,

in asking those questions, they were disclosing information and identifying information of victims and witnesses that shouldn't be disclosed. So it's just further demonstration of the lengths that his team will go to to try and prejudice proceedings and interfere with the course of justice, I would say.

But let's follow up on that because we were forwarded a cease and desist letter that was sent to your firm by Tate's camp. Jack, Matthew, I don't know which one of you want to tackle this, because this cease and desist letter basically, and I read it, was suggesting that you're engaging in defamation. And it almost seemed to be egging you on that if you had a case, let's fight it out in the civil arena, bring a lawsuit. You'd mention Jack about what the plan is for the civil lawsuit. But are you concerned with this letter? Are you concerned with Andrew Tate taking some sort of legal action against you or your clients based on this letter?

I'll allow either one of you to jump in on that. Yeah, the very easy answer is no, I'm not concerned at all. I mean, it's just part of the clown show. And it's just ridiculous. We're doing a job. Our job is to advocate for our clients who are victims and survivors of alleged serious sexual assaults, including rape. And our job is to get out there and advocate for them and to bring claims on their behalf. And part of the principle of one of the cornerstones of our democracy is the principle of open justice.

And this stuff gets reported on. And the takes may not like that, but that's just a reality. and to try and sue us for doing our job is just ridiculous. So, no, I'm not concerned at all. Bring it on. That's fine. Whatever they want to do. If they want to waste their time bringing a defamation suit,

it just gives us another opportunity to present the evidence against them. Jack, one of the things, I believe you allege about Tate, and it was mentioned in this cease and desist letter, was something called the Real World Portal, which my understanding, he claims, Tate claims is a course to teach people how to build websites and their brands, but you say it's something more sinister. Can you explain that? Yeah, I mean, I think, I think the first thing to say is, you know, I don't want to take credit for the idea that it's, that it's not what it seems. It's, it's, it's taken a lot of

research from people who are very well informed and who have done a lot of groundwork and collected a lot of evidence. I mean, essentially as far as I'm, as far as I can make out, And it is the whole structure of the real world, like a lot of hate related content and products, is slightly smoking mirrors. It's not really evident what it does at the face of it. You sign up, you pay, I think, $50 a month. There's evidence that it is advertised and directed at, you know, young men and children. So, you know, people as young as 11, 12, 13 years old. And then essentially it seems to be that you just create and promote take related content on TikTok and YouTube and other related channels and encourage people to join the real world at which point you get paid if they if you get a certain number of commissions.

So that is described as a multi-level marketing scheme by by the Tate's who are now seemingly sort of distancing their service from the product which has their face all over it and another way of describing it is you know potentially as a pyramid scheme so all we did really was amplify the concerns that seemingly very valid concerns of quite a large number of people and bring it to the attention you know Apple you have very strict rules in place for what can and can't be on their app store it seems as though they've taken takes have taken offence at us doing that but actually I think you know they are yet to provide any explanation or counter

arguments to it and I think any app which is reliant on children potentially paying 50 $50 a month when it's not really clear at all what it does or what its aim is should be interrogated. I think that's completely fair. Now, talking about the money aspect here, Matthew, I want to end our conversation on this. So we've covered a lot of sexual assault cases and, you know, one of the big questions is why do the victims come out years later? There are a number of reasons why that happens.

But I want to give you the opportunity to end this conversation, Matthew, with explaining because somebody might look at this and say, you know, Now, it's once Andrew Tate and his brother become super, super famous on social media, they're flaunting their wealth, now it's when the accusers come forward. I want to you to end the conversation to explain why we are seeing this now. Is it something must have changed? And I read a little bit about it. And I don't want to put words in your client's mouth.

But it seems that they believe once he gained this power and notoriety, they felt the need to come forward. But again, you could see the other side of it. where people are questioning their credibility that they're coming out now when they see the power and wealth of Andrew Tate. Yeah, I mean, look, there's the very basic reason, which is if you are subject to serious sexual assault, you know, the trauma of that can take years

to reconcile with to the point where you feel that you can take some action. And to be fair to our clients, they took action immediately. They reported it to the police. They did everything that they were supposed to do. And society expects them to do. And the police failed them.

The authorities failed them. And so they were left without any recourse to justice. And really, the answer to the question, you know, why now 10 years later? Let's remember that criminal investigation didn't conclude until 2019. Thereafter, the victims have given up any hope for justice. when Tate rose to prominence in infamy and the victims see him in the news and on their TV screens and on social media

and rise to this level of prominence where he's one of the most Google people in the world and is claiming to have, you know, the adoration of the world's boys and young men, they, not only is that re-traumatizing for them to see that, but also they feel incredible responsible and even guilt in thinking if we had done more, if we had been taking a different approach,

would you have been brought to justice? And if so, would you have gone on to commit these further alleged crimes and harm and create further victims and be able to spread this toxic message of misogyny that's poisoning, you know, vulnerable young men and boys across the world? They feel a responsibility to come forward and do something so that there aren't more victims.

It's very difficult to speak for them on this subject, because obviously it's a very personal and private thing. And if you haven't been a victim of sexual assault, if you haven't been a victim of rape, I'm not sure. It's very difficult to answer, and everyone's answer is going to be different. But from speaking to them, I think it comes down to that. It's a sense of responsibility that someone had to do something, someone had to act. and they felt that that needed to be them. This isn't an easy thing for them. They don't want to be going through this.

It's re-traumatizing and it's horrific. But actually, as they move through the process, I think they're finding strength in it and it's healing for them as well. It's cathartic because they feel they're doing something, you know, rather than being the victim and reacting to events, they are now taking their own steps

and they're taking action themselves. And I think that alone is important. So I think that's the answer to why now. I hope I've done it justice anyway. Matthew Jury, Jack Beeston. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the situation a little bit more to us. We really appreciate it. Thank you for having us.

Thank you. Thank you. All right, everybody. That's all we have for you here on Sidebar. Thank you so much for joining us. As always, please subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. We very much appreciate it. I'm Jesse Weber.

I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series, add free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.