Law&Crime Sidebar - Student Who Killed Newborn in Dorm Called it Her ‘Favorite’ Birth Control Method: Prosecutors

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

Brianna Moore, 19, is facing aggravated manslaughter and child neglect charges after giving birth in her dorm bathroom and allegedly leaving her newborn in a shared trash can. For the first time, we hear from Moore herself as she tells police what happened in the bathroom and why she didn't call for help. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber breaks down the key evidence, disturbing text messages, and Moore’s potential defense, with legal insight from criminal defense attorney Michael Gottlieb.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Get 15% off OneSkin with the code SIDEBAR at https://www.oneskin.co #oneskinpodHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger, Christina O'Shea & Jay CruzScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this law and crimes series ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Can you tell me about the baby? The baby? A young woman faces aggravated manslaughter and child neglect charges after she allegedly gave birth in a Florida dorm room bathroom and put the newborn in a trash can that she shared with three other people. We obtained audio of two interviews that the then 19-year-old Brianna Moore did with Tampa police

to get insight into the sensitive investigation and how police and prosecutors came to the conclusion that this teen should face felony charges. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime, I'm Jesse Weber. Our team combed through more than 100 pages of police reports and warrants and we were able to get a lot more information about Brianna Moore and what allegedly happened inside McKay Hall on the University of Tampa campus back in April of 2024. Because at that time, Brianna Moore was a freshman. She told Tampa police she was from Meridian, Mississippi, where her family had a small farm, and that she'd come to Florida on a partial scholarship to study marine biology. According to police, Moore was pregnant when she arrived on campus, and Moore said she

had no idea, but admitted she may have been in denial. And I'll tell you what, reality came crashing down around her when she awoke one morning around 7 a.m., not feeling well, and went to the bathroom. Now, the bathroom was between two dorm rooms and was shared by four people. That is where authorities say Breanna Moore gave birth to a baby girl. But instead of calling for an ambulance or alerting anyone to what had happened, Moore apparently admitted to police that she sat with the baby for a while in the bathroom before taking a shower and falling asleep for around an hour.

She told Tampa police that she believed the baby died not long after it was born. She said she was shocked and panicked and ended up putting the dead child in a trash can. But if Moore had been hoping to keep the birth a secret, that hope was quickly dashed when her roommates discovered the bathroom was covered in blood and the baby's tiny body in the trash. Now, we're going to take a closer look at each step of this investigation. was covered in blood and the baby's tiny body in the trash. Now we're going to take a closer look at each step of this investigation and to do that

I want to welcome criminal defense attorney Michael Gottlieb onto the show. Michael, thanks so much for taking the time. Thanks for having me here. This is a really, really sad case. I mean whatever way you look at it, baby comes into the world in a traumatic way, didn't survive. Do you see a lot of these kind of cases and what does it come down to legally? We don't see a lot of these cases and when you do it really shocks your conscience of,

you know, first of all, how can a young girl from the Bible Belt come to school? She's clearly sexually active and she's ashamed of that. She doesn't want anybody to know she's pregnant. She's trying to hide it. She really hasn't made any friends. Her suitemates don't really know her yet everybody suggested from what I saw that she at least looked like she was pregnant and here's a girl who's in denial because obviously in the state of Florida she can't have an abortion. She can't go home. She can't tell her family she wants to have an abortion.

So she's having an unwanted pregnancy. She's not properly nourishing this child. And it really builds into what's likely to be, I think, not a murder one or a murder two, but more of a manslaughter type of a prosecution. That she negligently harmed the child and negligently probably killed the child I think is the theory that the government's probably going to pursue. Hey I want to thank Oneskin for sponsoring today's episode of Sidebar because let's be honest being on camera as much as I am I think it proves the point having the right skincare products matter our skin gets older it

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OneSkin is how easy it is to integrate into my daily routine. Just a few simple steps, I'm good to go. So for a limited time you can try OneSkin for 15% off using the code sidebar when you check out of Oneskin.co. That's 15% off at Oneskin.co with code sidebar. Remember to tell them that we sent you there when they ask how did you hear about them? Invest in the health and longevity of your skin with Oneskin, your future self will be thanking you. So let's go back to Saturday, April 27th, 2024.

Now, Moore has given birth, moved from the bathroom back to her dorm room, and her roommate wasn't there. According to a report that was submitted to the Hillsborough County prosecutors, when one of the girls next door went into the bathroom later that afternoon, she reportedly saw blood everywhere and was concerned that maybe one of her suitemates had had a miscarriage. So campus security and EMS personnel, they went to Moore's room in McKay Hall to check on her. Now Moore reportedly told them that the blood was from her menstruation and that she wasn't pregnant.

But the other roommates were all in a group chat together trying to figure out what was going on with Moore, who they told police they weren't that close with. And all three said they had heard a baby crying early Saturday morning, but it thought maybe they were dreaming or that it had come from a video. And police say it wasn't until Sunday that Moore's roommate realized something was very wrong and this is what the charging documents say about this gruesome discovery. Witness one was with a friend, witness four, inside the dorm room to gather some items for witness one.

Well, inside the room, witness one and witness four saw a bloody towel inside the suspect's trash can. Using a styrofoam container, witness 4 touched the towel and felt something firm inside. Believing this was possibly a baby, Witness 4 picked up the trash bag from the can, walked outside with Witness 1, and alerted Campus Safety. Witness 1 and Witness 4 were joined by Witness 2 before Campus Safety arrived. Campus Safety opened the towel in the presence of witness four and found a deceased infant.

Now Michael, this gives us a better idea of what was going on, but it also makes it clear that there were multiple people who were witnesses who could be really critical to this case. Yeah, but I think the case really comes down to, like if I had to defend her, right? The case is really gonna come down to, like if I had to defend her, right, the case is really going to come down to the fact that the doctor's already said she's in a

disassociative state, right? So a disassociative state or a fugue state, it can rise to the level of an insanity. I mean, here's a young girl, as I said, she's so troubled, so traumatically affected by the fact that she's pregnant. She doesn't know what to do with the baby. It sounds like she she's considered giving the child away. She really hasn't considered nor is she mentally mature enough to consider proper childbirth.

So she's in this sort of state of denial, disassociating with the fact that her own body is pregnant. I don't know if a lot of people will respond to that in a jury, but she does have a potential defense. I don't know that it rises to the level of insanity. So you'd really have to go for what we call a jury pardon. So like jury nullification you're talking about basically? Right. Yeah. But that's not, you can't argue that. You're talking about basically? Okay.

But that's not, you can't argue that. You're not supposed to argue that. Not supposed to argue that. But what you have to do, it's the art of mitigation. As you're arguing for her and you're arguing about where she came from, coming from the Bible belt. You know, and you kind of have to mix the politics of pro-life versus pro-choice into all this and how, you know, by the time she realized she was pregnant, it was beyond six weeks and her back was up against the wall and that kind of thing.

And look, there's going to be a lot of people who say she should have had the baby, dropped it off at a fire station, right? That's already come up in the analysis of the case. Well, let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Because she did at least two interviews with police. And the first was inside a police interview room. And we obtained audio recordings of that interview, which took place after detectives went over Moore's Miranda rights with her.

And she agreed to talk to them. Take a listen. Can you tell me about the baby? The baby? Listen, you're very smart. I know this. Can you tell me about the baby? The baby? Listen, you're very smart, I know this. You're a biology person, okay? So you know all that, and you know about DNA, you know all those things, okay? We have a very young baby right now, right outside your room.

You had quite the ordeal, it sounds like, yesterday morning in the bathroom for a few hours, okay? Listen, we're not judging at all on this, okay? People can get in over their heads sometimes, they're not sure what to do, okay? Okay. But just, let's be honest, okay? Basically, first of all, I did not even know that I was pregnant. Okay. And then I just woke up not feeling good yesterday morning.

So I went to the bathroom, I was puking, whatever, and then yeah, but after like a few seconds, it was dead. How long did the baby cry for? Because I know all the roommates and suitemates all heard the baby cry. How long? I would say like five seconds maybe. Five seconds of crying? Something around that-ish. Okay. Did you take the baby back to bed for you for a short time period?

I was in the bath. I just stayed in the bathroom. You just stayed in the bathroom? Now Moore seemingly admitted to the detectives that she hadn't had her period in about a year, but says she attributed that to the fact that she had stopped using a birth control patch. So the detectives know that this is a very delicate situation, but they need details from Moore about what happened. So you went to the bathroom and obviously had a baby. Did you deliver the placentos well?

Yes. OK, you're sure about that? Pretty sure. Pretty sure. Something else after the baby came out? Yeah. Something pretty good amount of something? Yeah. Okay, it's just, it's important for your health on that.

Yeah, okay. Okay. I am worried about you a little bit, okay. So you had the baby, the baby cried for how long do you think? Just a few seconds, not long at all. Not long at all? So the baby cried for a short time period. And you sure it wasn't any... Now here's the thing, the medical examiner is going to be able to tell a lot of things.

Your honesty right now is very, very important, okay? Okay, so I took a shower, well I sat in the shower, I didn't really like washing anything, but I just sat in the shower. Shower on or off? On. Okay. Okay, and then I think I got out and I sat there for a little bit Sat there for a little bit tried to wipe up some blood Yeah, just kind of sat there.

Just, yeah. What after you sat there, what did you do then? Um, well, I've, it wasn't moving, so I felt for a heartbeat and I didn't feel one. Where did you feel? Like right right here? Okay on the chest? Yeah, and then It wasn't moving and I got scared Yeah, what did you do after that? I sat the towel on the floor of my room and I went to sleep because I was tired and I hadn't slept well obviously.

I mean, I took a nap and then when I got up I just completely did not know what to do. Michael, your reaction to what she has to say so far, you know My reaction is here's a young girl who is clearly confused. She's stating she wasn't even certain she was pregnant Missing her period was not unusual for her because she was no longer on the birth control Medication the baby cried for a few seconds and then appeared to her to no longer have a heartbeat. She's confused, she's concerned, she's scared, didn't know what to do, stayed in the shower for a long period of time, obviously had just given childbirth and she's exhausted and she went to bed.

And I think all of that goes to that disassociative state, and she's really just not properly processing what exactly has happened to her. Let's go back into the interview and see a little bit more. If you could do it again, what would you do? Probably when I started feeling bad, probably go to the hospital. But once I thought that I was in labor, I just, I was like, I can't afford, first of all, to have a baby at the hospital. And then I was like, I just, I got so panicked, I didn't know what to do. And then I was like, okay, well, if it, it if it makes it then I can just take it

to the hospital and surrender the baby because you can do that can't you? You can take it to the hospital? Yeah that's what I had in my head that I was gonna do but then I just didn't it just didn't seem alive so I did it. Yeahive in the beginning, but then you think passed shortly after delivering? Is that what your thought process is? Mm-hmm. Can I ask why you wouldn't or didn't call 911? Because I was scared, and I didn't want anyone to know, and it's just, I don't know. I just got scared and panicked, and I don't know. I just got scared and panicked and I don't know.

See Michael, what do you think this line of questioning is trying to establish? I think they're trying to do two things here, right? They're trying to establish was the baby alive when born and did you know that and did you make a conscious decision to either not get help or do something where the baby would not survive. And I'm curious what you're taking away from this line of questioning. So I think, yeah, obviously I think the detective is, he's got a nice soft demeanor about him. You know, they're not badgering her and they're trying to find out, is this a murder one?

Is it a murder two? Did she intentionally commit this act? You know, she's done some damage to herself, but at the same point in time, she kind of helps herself. She says, if the child was alive, I was going to take him to, you know, the hospital and surrender him. You can do that here. She's showing her mental immaturity. She's showing her naivete, if you will. And then she says, but the child didn't seem alive.

So I didn't really do that. Again, she hurts herself when she says, well, I didn't want to go to the hospital because I didn't have the money. Yeah. But, you know, so the the cops are, you know, they're trying to hone in on what is the actual charge here without really doing her damage. I don't see this because detectives can take a statement in a way to try to sort of paint you in a corner. And I don't really see them doing that here.

I see it more as an open-ended kind of what happened. You can maybe sense that they feel for her because this was an emotional journey that she had to go through and really didn't understand what was going on. And again, I'm gonna go back to that disassociative state. If the doctors can really sell that, jurors might buy that and might buy that she was so confused

that she really didn't know what she was doing. So the detectives, they're skeptical. They're skeptical that Moore could be nearly full-term in her pregnancy and have no idea. And Moore told them that she didn't gain much weight, that all of her clothes still fit her. She also said she hadn't had any other symptoms of pregnancy like morning sickness. She claimed no one approached her about her possibly being pregnant.

But according to some of her suitemates, they had concerns that Moore might be expecting. And when an officer watched surveillance footage from inside the dorm, he watched Moore apparently walk down a hallway and noted, while she didn't have a large belly, it was obvious she was pregnant. Just having a hard time getting over the fact that you didn't know you were pregnant. Did you know and you were just embarrassed about it

and weren't sure what to do? No, I had no idea because all my, like I said, all my clothes still fit. And then I didn't have like any like sickness or anything. Like I never felt bad. Did your belly just stint because your roommate said it looked like a pretty good size little belly he was odd because you know, everywhere else but have I mean, all my close up t

I just assumed like it wa or whatever. But when I w I'd say it was probably b bigger. Okay. So the char that more handed over her and consented to a cheek of her dna. Now more lat interview a few days lat

in a squad car where she rights and agreed to spe Do you know who the father, have you done any calculations of when you think you would have been pregnant? I've done some light ones and I think it would have been. What would be your opinion? I'm not an expert, okay? When I google I find 280 days. Do you know when that would be? That would have been in July. July.

Yeah. So 280 days ago today would have been July 24th. Add a couple days to it. You're talking about possibly mid-late July. The baby was pretty much full term and I'll say it wasn't a week early or 10 days early but full term okay so it certainly wasn't a month or two early. So it would have been when did you get to Florida? In August. So I would have to be at home.

Did anybody have a goodbye? A what? A goodbye? Did you have a boyfriend up there that you said goodbye to or anything before coming down here? Um, no. I feel like, hold on. I'm trying to think.

I'm sorry. I feel like, hold on, I'm trying to think, I'm sorry, I feel like, is there any way I could look at my phone for this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll give you your phone back, yeah. And in the audio you can hear the officers pushing Moore a little bit on her story and her reticence to talk about some things. When we talked the other day, you described kind of holding the baby clutching it kind of to your breast, chest area and baby's face was towards you. Was the baby still trying to cry a little bit and you were just trying to keep things

a little on the quiet side? I'm not sure. You're just not sure. I'm just, I'm sorry. I'm just not sure. I'm not sure. You're just not sure? I'm just, I'm sorry, I'm just not sure. I'm not sure. I don't know that not sure is going to answer some of the questions that people are going to want answered. Yeah. You're 19, I understand you were terrified. So you're in the bathroom, you birth the baby, baby cry. How long do you think you held the baby there?

I'm not sure. Is this just going to be asking me about like holding the baby? Like this interview? No, we're going to go into other things as well but it's a question that needs to be answered. Yeah. It's a pretty important question. Can you just give me some time to like kind of go over it in my head and maybe answer those later? You're grown. You can do pretty much whatever you want but I can tell you right now

There are people that are waiting to find out Your truthfulness your honesty in what you were thinking at that time Yeah, going away and then having time to what people will view as concocting a story might not be the best idea I'd say I mean I really have no concept of time for like how long anything happened but I probably held it for I think maybe like 10 minutes maybe somewhere around there. Okay. And obviously at some point the baby wasn't moving anymore, correct? Mm-hmm.

And then that's when you laid the baby on the towel, correct? Mm-hmm. Clean yourself up some, clean baby up some, and you ended up taking a nap, and then reassessing the baby, then determining no babies and probably we're in full panic mode is my guess at this point and you don't seem like a very like run-around crazy panic person I'm guessing you internalize a lot of things and kind of think through them the best you can I mean I guess, I'm not a running around panicky kind of person. I just kind of...

Kind of have the science mind where you try to figure out how to work the problem, so to say. Honestly, a lot of things I do when I get panic, I just kind of try and put it out of my mind or I overthink it way too much. Okay. Were you trying to silence the crying to roommates didn't hear it because all three roommates or Sweetmates heard a baby cry They I just put it didn't recognize it at the time because it didn't make sense to them

You know what I mean, but then of course as they saw everything you started making sense to them on that I mean, I just kind of put its head, like, right here-ish, and it stopped. OK. OK, stop crying? Mm-hmm. OK. And the detectives circle back to who the father of Moore's

child could be. I feel like it's got to be between, like, two people. Do you know their names? Yeah, I can tell you their names. Are you going to contact them? I don't know yet, but we might have to. Okay. Yeah, I can tell you their names.

Michael, how important is it to locate the baby's father? So you've got a prosecution, right? If you have a prosecution and you have a father or survivor in a murder case, from the prosecution standpoint, you want to humanize that deceased baby. You want someone to come forward and say, yeah, had I known that she was pregnant, I'd have helped her. I'd have given her the money to go to the hospital. I'd have raised that child.

I'd have been there for her and I've been support because that's going to help a jury get to a murder conviction. So those questions are definitely not benefiting her and are helping the prosecution. They want to humanize this fetus. A lot of people you know, don't believe that a fetus is a child, right? So that's a debate. Obviously, that it was born, it cried, so it now becomes a child. Um, but you know, they really want to put a father there, somebody to testify, uh, and they'll figure it out who that is. If she's being correct with the DNA test that yes, that was my child. I'd have been there. I'd have raised that child. Had that been a viable pregnancy, had that child lived. It's pretty remarkable. One, that you self delivereddelivered but two that you were

able to self-deliver in that amount of time. I know I that's generally somebody has had several children. I once I realized it was happening I went to the bathroom and I I was hurting so bad I couldn't move and literally once I got like the courage to like order an Uber call an ambulance it came It was it was coming Yeah You were gonna order an Uber Yeah, you had your phone with you in the bathroom

Yeah, I literally had the app pulled up and then as I was typing it in it. I was like I can't Can I ask? Because I know that people are gonna ask, okay? So you were gonna call, but then it came, obviously. That's probably you can't dial the phone while it's happening, right? After it comes out and, you know, after you've held or, you know, the baby or set it down, why didn't you grab your phone and call then? I mean, I don't, I think I was just scared at that down. Why didn't you grab your phone and call then?

I mean, I think I was just scared at that point. I don't know. I was just panicking. We appreciate your honesty. Obviously you've been very cooperative and you've been very helpful. This is a very traumatic experience for you. I don't think that you're a bad person. You're I mean,

I don't think that you've, you know, done anything, you know, you know, crazy. But at the end of the day, I want you to think truly down to, you know, your actions and everything that happened. And if you feel, you know, that there's something that we don't know, you know what I mean? Or something that you haven't been forthcoming about, you know what I mean? It's imperative and it's very important that you tell us that. This is going to be looked at by us. A lot of people are going to look at this. The State Attorney's Office is going to look at this.

I'm guessing you saw it was in the papers, correct? I... It made the news. That a baby was found on campus. Okay. Okay. Now, they don't have the whole story. That's for sure. What about my name? Is that in... No, not right now it's not. Now at some point these things all become records.

Yeah. Okay, they do become a record at some point. But there's lots of people looking at this and trying to figure things out. There's going to be a lot of people that are going to have a lot of sympathy for a 19 year old in a scary situation, okay? But a lot of those people want very truthful answers of how things happen. A Mooriner family coordinated with a local funeral home and according to an article from the Tampa Bay want very truthful answers of how things happen. A mourner family coordinated with a local funeral home, and according to an article from the Tampa Bay Times, she returned home to Mississippi with the newborns' remains in an urn.

And over the next several months, Tampa police and the Hillsborough County Prosecutor's Office worked closely together to determine if there was probable cause to charge more with a crime. And before the baby was turned over to the funeral home, an autopsy was performed. And according to charging paperwork, which reads, during the autopsy it was discovered that the infant had sustained multiple fractured ribs along the spine and evidence of petechial hemorrhaging in the lungs.

Dr. McCormick determined that the cause of death was asphyxia due to compression of the torso with rib fractures and the manner of death as homicide. Now, Michael, that's compelling evidence. I'm sure the defense will present their own expert to combat that, but that's compelling. I suppose it is, except that I'd want to question the medical examiner, right? There was nobody to assist her in having the child. She had the child by herself on a bathroom floor. Could it be from hugging the child?

Could it be from asphyxiating the child? Could it be from the fact she didn't know that she was pregnant and the child was malnourished coming out of her birth canal by herself on a bathroom floor, could she have inadvertently harmed the child, right? Could she have, you know, in the manner she there's there's nobody helping her birth this child. So is it possible that those injuries that were sustained were accidental? And I suspected a medical examiner is gonna answer that question and say yes it's possible. You're talking about a nine and a half month old fetus that was just born. It's very fragile.

And here's the other part. We need to get to this. When authorities got their hands on digital evidence from Moore's phone, they found disturbing messages. On September 13th, 2023, the defendant sent multiple text messages back and forth with a contact in her phone labeled, Kaseem. These texts are part of a much larger chain of text messages. However, the messages relevant to this motion occur only on September 13th, 2023. Now, in September of 2023, Moore would already have been pregnant, although whether she knew or not, that's up for debate. I'm going to warn you, these messages are unpleasant to say the least. In the messages, Brianna and Kasim are talking about what are sometimes referred to as morning after pills or abortion pills, and Kasim calls them Plan C and says crazy, and Brianna replies,

hey man, sometimes you need a plan C. Kasim writes, plan A was condoms, plan B was the pill, plan C was to kill the kid, to which Brianna says, plan C is my favorite. Michael, I wonder if that is the most problematic part of this case. From a defense standpoint, that's pretty damning evidence, right? So it sounds like there, that's how the prosecution's going to get to murder in the first degree, planned, prepared. And that's how you paint a picture of a cold, callous individual who didn't care that she

was pregnant, didn't try to nurse the child, didn't try to give the child away, didn't try for healthcare. Yeah, that's evidence that I would prefer if I was defending this case did not exist. Yeah, and I'll tell you what, in a motion to have the text included as evidence at trial, the prosecution wrote the September 13th, 2023 text messages are relevant. They very clearly lay out a willingness to kill a baby if other means of contraception have failed. Although intent to kill is not an element of the charge defenses, there is an intent element inherent in the willful failure to provide care of a child, neglect charge, and

consciously doing an act or following a course of conduct that gives rise to culpable negligence for an aggravated manslaughter charge. And in October of 2024, months after the birth, authorities arrested Moore in Mississippi, brought her back to Florida, and she was charged with child neglect with great bodily harm, unlawful storage, preservation, or transportation of human remains, failure to report death to medical examiner or law enforcement, and aggravated manslaughter of a child. You think it's going to be a straightforward case, Michael, to prove that? And I will tell you also, the charges were later amended to change the charge of unlawful

storage of human remains to unlawful holder storage of a human body in unapproved conditions. But go back to you, do you think those charges are going to be straightforward or easy for prosecutors to prove? You know, I don't think anything's ever easy, especially when you have emotions involved in a case like this. I think that, you know, there's certainly for the prosecution, there's direct evidence or circumstantial evidence. So I don't think they have a huge hill to climb to get there.

And because they're not going for murder in the first degree and they're going for these lesser charges, yeah, I think a conviction is likely. Now, one of the cases recent court filings kind of give us a glimpse a little bit maybe into the type of defense Moore might use. And that's because the prosecution noted that the defense wanted to bring in an expert. Expert testimony from Dr. Nicole Graham,

a forensic neurophysicist. And the state deposed Dr. Graham in May and included a transcript from it in its motion to strike her testimony. They don't want it in. Dr. Graham did her best to try to describe what a mild disassociative state is like. It is a bit of a disconnect from reality, but not in the psychotic sense where you're misperceiving reality, but in the sense in which your emotions and your cognitive thought processes aren't aligned with how you would typically act in day-to-day

functioning. We might see people in a disassociative state as a response to trauma where they do have gaps in their memory or they have perceptual disturbances. Sometimes people report feeling being disconnected from the situation, so they feel as though they're not even in their own body. They're like kind of an outsider looking in to what's taking place. Those can be very emotionally overwhelming situations. As part of her interview process, Dr. Graham explained that she has people go through the

story of what happened multiple times, occasionally inserting pieces of information that she's learned from other sources into the conversation to see how the person talks about the experience each time. And that can help indicate whether a person truly doesn't remember something or if they might be, you know, putting on an act. And during the deposition, Dr. Graham said of Moore, she described herself as being numb, that she kind of just didn't feel anything. And likewise, in the reports immediately surrounding that time,

had described her likewise as being numb or flat, or the presentation wasn't consistent with the severity or reality of the allegation of what she had gotten herself into. So Michael, real quick, your take on a possible defense here on that. So the possible defense, the affirmative defense is insanity. You have to not be able to distinguish between right and wrong and know what you're doing is wrong And the dissociative state that is possible But in the absence of a major mental illness

Not very likely and that's essentially what the government's saying is this doesn't rise to the level of insanity The doctor hasn't said that she was insane at the time that she gave birth to the child at the time that she killed the child was insane at the time that she gave birth to the child at the time that she killed the child. Um, so therefore her testimony is irrelevant because you can't ask for a jury pardon. And that's essentially what they would be doing by making this argument. So it's definitely a well founded motion. If the doctor comes on a little stronger and says it could rise to the level of insanity, then the testimony should be admitted. Now, Dr. Graham testified during the deposition that she believed Moore experienced what's known as a cryptic pregnancy, which happens when women genuinely don't realize they're

pregnant until they give birth. She said Moore has a passive personality, low self-esteem, emotionally immature, which all likely contributed to her decision to try to hide what happened. But Dr. Graham said she had not been hired to determine if Moore was insane per se, but based on her interactions with her, she was not. According to the Tampa Bay Times, reporting indicates Moore faces up to 30 years in prison if she's convicted on the top charge of manslaughter of a child. Her trial was originally set to begin on July 21st, but on July 11th, a notice was filed

with the court that the appearance was canceled. There was no specific reason that was given, but the Hillsborough County Court docket indicates a motion for continuance was filed. Michael Gottlieb, thank you so much for taking the time. Really sad case. A lot of interesting elements to it, but appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. And that's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar.

Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you should get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this Law and Crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify.