Law&Crime Sidebar - Teacher Accused of ‘Making Out’ with 11-Year-Old Wants to Be Around Kids Again

Episode Date: August 15, 2024

Madison Bergmann, 24, has been out on bond since her arrest for first-degree sexual assault against a child. A fifth-grader told police the elementary school teacher sent him inappropriate messages, touched his legs, and kissed him in her empty classroom. According to her bond conditions, Bergmann is not allowed to be in any places where children might be present. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber discusses her request for those conditions to change with sex abuse attorney John Clune.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Download the FREE Upside App at https://upside.app.link/sidebar to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas.HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger and Christina FalconeScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. A former teacher accused of making out with an 11-year-old child wants a Wisconsin court to allow her to be around children again. The latest information about Madison Bergman will make your skin crawl, and we're going to discuss it all with sex abuse attorney John Clune. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Well, court documents reveal new details about a 24-year-old elementary school teacher's push to have her charges of first-degree child sexual assault thrown out and to modify her bond conditions to maybe allow her to be around kids. Let's think about that for a second.

covered this before. We're talking about Madison Bergman. She was a fifth grade teacher at River Crest Elementary School in Hudson, Wisconsin. She was fired after allegations arose that she had kissed an 11-year-old boy multiple times and made sexual advances toward him over the phone. For now, Bergman is out on a $25,000 signature bond, reportedly staying at her grandparents' farm, seemingly trying to stay in hiding. This is according to the New York Post. now she was supposed to get married over the summer but as i think you can imagine it seems the wedding was abruptly called off and here's the thing as part of her bond bergman is barred from being anywhere that children are present and she appears now to want to change that because

after all children are in restaurants children are in stores they're all over the place and according to the new york post court documents reveal that her attorneys are trying to get the case not only thrown out, but at the very least have Bergman's bond conditions modified, that her attorney reportedly stated that she wants to be able to go places, go to eat out, go shopping. But the problem is children might be in that area. So here's what court records state about her bond, quote, it is hereby ordered as a condition of the defendant's bond bail in the above captioned case that he or she have absolutely no contact whatsoever with the complaining witness or with any of the following name persons and or locations, victim or any other person

under the age of 18 or any student at Rivercrest Elementary School. The term no contact is hereby defined as no contact in person by telephone by way of electronic device, email, facsimile, social media, including but not limited to texting, Facebook, Twitter, contact through the mail, and or through a third person. So Bergman is allowed to have contact with a few minor age family members, but under the supervision of another adult, but she has all these other conditions. So I want to bring him special guests today, John Clune, a sex abuse attorney out of Colorado. John, thanks so much for coming on. Before we even dive into everything, these latest developments, what is just your reaction to this case overall? You know, it's disturbing on a number of

levels, but the thing that kind of stands out to me is, you know, I think as parents, we have the sense that, you know, if we do the right things, we make some good choices for our kids, we supervise them properly, you know, there's probably a pretty good chance that we can keep them from being abused or by somebody, you know, that may be seeking harm. But this is something that has happened in the classroom while your child's 11 years old with a female teacher. Just one of those things that reminds you that, you know, you're, you know, it's really hard to prevent everything possible that could happen to your kids because this one's kind of a little bit on a left field if I was the kid's parent. Hey, I want to thank one of our incredible sponsors

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You know, I mean, I guess it's a reminder that there are no outliers. I mean, something like this can happen anywhere with anybody. That's kind of the disturbing part of this case as it reminds us of that. But I would say that it's probably one of the more unusual set of facts, particularly the fact that it happened in the classroom with the other kids present is probably a more unusual fact pattern. We'll talk about those allegations in a minute. I want to get to this new development with the bond order. Look, these are incredibly serious accusations and incredibly serious crime that she's charged with. So I understand why the bond order is so restrictive, but is it too

restrictive? Should it be revised? I mentioned everywhere. There's children everywhere. And it's essentially keeping her from public places. And is that too restrictive? Yeah, I mean, this is something that judges, you know, have to struggle with on a lot of these cases because you have somebody who's not convicted of anything. You have somebody who's presumed to be innocent. And yet, you know, the meaning of this bond is to make sure, A, that the actual defendant is successful on bond, but B, that you're protecting the community. And so something like, you know, not being able to go to restaurants, not being able to go to stores, that's probably something the judge is going to ultimately find to be, you know, not something that needs to be a priority for this defendant

at this point, her life given the charges that she's facing. I don't know that it's overly restrictive. I understand why it can be frustrating when you're presumed to be innocent, but they're really designed to help both the defendant and the community. Yeah, I said before that she might be in, you know, it's almost like she's in hiding at the farm. It's more like she's in seclusion. isolated based on this bond order. And it seems to me that if she were to go out in public, and these are allegations, very serious allegations, but as you mentioned, she's innocent until proven guilty, does she not have a right to go to the supermarket? And what happens if there's a child in another aisle? Is that a violation of the bond conditions? How much would

this be a via? I guess, you know, there's what it says in the bond order, but how much would it be enforced, right? If she goes into the store, she's checking, she's again, checking out. And then a child walks in, you tell me in your experience, how much would that be a violation and she could ultimately have her bond revoked? Well, you know, I think that the burden is going to be on her to kind of police. There's a million different scenarios that we can come up with where a kid may, you know, end up in an area where she's in, and it's going to be on her to kind of police the situation. I think that one of things that could be helpful about this motion is for her to get some clarity from the judge and to hear from the judge to say, look, I'm not saying that

have to live at the farm for the entire time while this case is going on, but it's your responsibility to not be in places where you expect kids to be. If you do see a kid that, you know, comes into your area that's more than just walking past you, you know, maybe that's where you have the obligation to remove yourself from that situation. So even though they may not be successful in this bond modification, it may give her a little bit of clarity and okay to say that you don't have to just live in seclusion while the case is pending. as the reporting indicates, that she has filed a motion to dismiss the case. We haven't been able to get her hands on the actual motion, but what would you say, generally speaking, would be some grounds by which to dismiss the case? So those are usually going to be constitutional issues. It can be something like a motion dismissed for lack of probable cause. Sometimes it can be prosecutorial misconduct.

You have to keep in mind that these kind of motions get filed on most cases. They're almost. almost never granted. So, you know, without seeing the motion, I couldn't speculate too much further on it, but it's usually some sort of constitutional issue that is just kind of a, you know, perfunctory motion that it's due diligence by the defense attorney, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be, you know, that well entertained by the court. Okay. I want to talk to you about some of these allegations. So according to the criminal complaint, it's our understanding, that this 11-year-old boy's parents found out about this. alleged abuse when his mom overheard him talking on the phone with Bergman and the family had

apparently known Bergman she had accompanied them on a ski trip had the boy's number in case they all got separated on the trip not clear why exactly Bergman was invited on the trip but she alleges that the boy called her an excuse that we often see from alleged sexual predators right trying to put the impetus on the victim the minor victim that the young victim came on to them first so the mom overhears this conversation she's suspicious the Parents check the boy's phone. They find all sorts of explicit texts. Bergman allegedly discusses multiple encounters between the two of them in her classroom during lunch or after school.

She allegedly told him how much she enjoyed making out with him. That's not disgusting to think about. And the boy's dad ended up printing out pages and pages of text and took them to the school to confront the administration. And Bergman was arrested on May 2nd, charged with first-degree child sexual assault. Let's just start there about what you make in terms of how the parents found out. And again, if it's true that she put the impetus on this 11-year-old. Yeah, I mean, I've dealt with a couple of cases that have this near identical fact pattern about finding out the parents finding out for the text messages. And, you know, I've got to tell you, my heart goes out to those parents.

It is devastating to read through. I've had to read through those messages before. It is so disgusting to read through that kind of. of material just as an attorney, but as a parent for one of these kids, it must have been just incredibly overwhelming. And it's a reminder of, you know, both the dangers of technology, but also, you know, the fact that, you know, a lot of times these cases are made very strongly on the basis of messages just like that. And the victim, this 11-year-old, did a forensic interview, told police that, or allegedly

told police that Bergman would rub his thigh and calves during. independent reading time in class, and because of the position of his desk, the victim says he didn't think any of the other kids could see what was happening. I always think about the victims in these case. I think about how difficult it must be for them to share that information, to even process what was happening, 11 years old, do you even know what's going on? But how difficult it also must be for investigators to get that information out of an 11-year-old. Yeah, you're so young at the age of 11, and it sounds like part of the M.O. in these allegations is that she gave him the impression that he was in trouble. And, you know,

he made him, he may have been a vulnerable kid to start with, but he becomes more vulnerable by feeling like he's in trouble with a teacher. And so wanting to go along with, you know, whatever he needs to do to get out of trouble with his teacher. I mean, this is going to be a hard thing for this kid to recover from. He certainly can, and he can go on to have a good life, but this is a tough deal for an 11-year-old boy. And the school district, says that it is cooperating with police who are working on Bergman's case. The Hudson School Superintendent Nick Olet updated the school board about the situation during a May meeting. So, you know, and the first of the world,

and the United States of the United States, and the United States, and the United States. So, you know, and the United States, and the United States, and the people are going to be able to make the United States. I think about the people

as well as a lot of people. So, you know, we're talking about it. And we're talking about it. And I think of the way, and we're going to be able to do that. And we're going to do. And we're going to do. And we're going to get this.

And so, you know, and so, you know. And so, you know. And so, you know. So as you just heard, the superintendent said that two teachers resigned in connection with these allegations. The other was also a fifth grade teacher. And according to school sources who spoke with the New York Post, this other teacher might have known what was going on and didn't report it. She has not been charged with any crime.

but John, I ask you, should she be? I mean, if she knew about it and she didn't report it, she should be. I mean, those teachers are all mandatory reporters for child abuse or neglect that happens to a kid under the age of 18. And so, you know, it depends on what information she had and what she did or didn't do with it. But if it shows that she knew about it and didn't do anything, then absolutely she should be charged with it. And John, I want to end with this. I'm also torn about this because what she's accused of is absolutely. horrific. It is. There's no doubt about it. However, as we said, like any criminal defendant,

she has a right to fight the case against her, to make legal arguments, to try to get the case thrown out. And since she's attempting to dismiss the case, the New York Post reported that her colleagues are upset about this, that one teacher said, quote, it's ridiculous. She has left the wake of destruction at the school, and she thinks she shouldn't face the consequences for that. So what is your take on it in terms of, is it wrong that she's fighting this? Should she just accept the responsibility of what happened? I mean, these are allegations, but I also think every criminal defendant has a right to defend their case, no matter how heinous the charges and the accusations are. You're absolutely right.

So she definitely has the right to do that. And a lot of these decisions will be made, you know, by her lawyer with enclosed consultation of her lawyer who's experience at dealing with these cases. So, and you have to keep in mind that a lot of times what happens is these defense attorneys, are going to want to challenge certain things. And part of that is to set up, you know, the possibility of, you know, at least the option for some sort of a plea bargain for her. So she definitely has the right to defend herself.

I totally understand the reaction of her fellow teachers. I mean, this has got a, this must have rocked them to their core. And they probably believe that this young student was abused. And so their reaction is normal. But I think that we do need to let the process play out and let her, you know, be able to exercise her rights and see what happens in the end. All right. We will see what happens in the end.

John Clune, thank you. much for coming on. Appreciate it. Thanks, Jesse. All right, everybody. That's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. Thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.