Law&Crime Sidebar - The Disturbing Truth: Horrifying Case of Baby Brianna and The 3 Monsters Who Killed Her

Episode Date: May 8, 2023

On this episode of “The Disturbing Truth,” we dive deep into the horrific tragedy experienced by Brianna Lopez at the hands of her family. Listen to all episode of "The Disturbing Truth" ...podcast here. THE DISTURBING TRUTH YOUTUBE:www.youtube.com/c/TheDisturbingTruthYTSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieLaw&Crime SidebarObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller
Starting point is 00:00:35 that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Nothing in between never meant your love Nine years ago today one of the worst cases of child abuse came to end in Las Cruces You were born there was a thunder Fire live in the sky as to lead a straight My heavy rainbows out of you and me
Starting point is 00:01:25 The death of five-month-old Brianna Lopez Come back again. Also known as baby Brianna Come and ease this obsession. A tragic chance and three family members to risk. Full force disperse Still sickens many in Las Cursa. Quiet this aggression.
Starting point is 00:01:44 Rihanna repeatedly suffered abuse at the hands of their own family. A metal cage surrounding her grave is supposed to discourage people from leaving flowers and gifts, but they do it anyway. baby briana lopez had no family she had monsters monsters monsters that rank right up there with the likes of peter scully and maritio torres because of three cowardly family monsters briana lopez wouldn't even reach half a year on this planet before her life was stolen but this wasn't by means of a sudden or accidental death this was a long drawn-out series of unspeakable events in the child's very
Starting point is 00:02:27 short life that led to a cataclysmic head on July 19th of 2002. This story involves happening to a child that are of a nature that turns my stomach inside out. This case is haunting, disgusting, and one of the hardest cases I've ever had to cover. I'm warning you now. You might want to skip this one. What I'm about to tell you, we'll stick with you. And baby Brianna must be remembered. I'm Mr. Black. And this is the disturbing truth about baby Brianna Lopez. and her family monsters. In 2002 at around 10 a.m. on July 19th, new mother Stephanie Lopez called 911 from a mobile home
Starting point is 00:03:09 reporting that her five-month-old daughter Brianna wasn't breathing. Patricia Walters, the grandmother of the baby girl, was also present during the 911 call. While on the phone with the operator, Stephanie and the baby's father, Andrew Walters, performed CPR on Brianna's tiny body until emergency services arrived and took over. They rushed the child to the hospital, but sadly, we're unable to bring her back to life. Brianna Lopez was tragically pronounced dead at 11.10 a.m. July 19th, 2002.
Starting point is 00:03:49 Stephanie told the physician in the ER that Brianna had fallen out of bed at around 3 a.m., but staff at the hospital quickly realized something was horribly wrong when they examined the many injuries present on the baby's body. Amy Orlando worked at the district attorney's office as a prosecutor. We spoke with her by phone. We got the call that there was a baby that had died at the hospital and that it was suspected childhood. So we knew pretty much while she was still, like as soon she got to the hospital and they were treated her, the police officers were calling us, the detectives. The hospital doesn't notify as the police do, but for them to notify police would be any signs of trauma or injury
Starting point is 00:04:31 that doesn't make any sense, bruising. You know, she was just bruised from her head to her toes, so they contacted law enforcement, and then law enforcement called us once the detectives got up there. Warning. Some of the images and details in this segment are extremely graphic and may be upsetting to some viewers. Bite marks aren't something that happened.
Starting point is 00:04:53 when a child falls off the bed. A deeper investigation was immediately rendered to determine exactly what happened to this innocent child. The details of Brianna's injuries go beyond the darkest realm most nightmares are capable of reaching. Again, please be warned that even for me, this part is hard to hear, let alone speak of. But it's the truth and the depth of this tragic matter.
Starting point is 00:05:19 It's not going to leave your mind anytime soon. An autopsy of five-month-old Brianna Lopez uncovered the following shocking revelations. Brianna died as a result of cranial cerebral injuries. There were various bruises and abrasions all over her head. A blunt force injury was suffered to Brianna's skull in the last three days or less of her life, which resulted in a large subdural hematoma. A subdural hematoma happens when a blood vessel in a blood vessel in her life. the space between the skull and the brain, aka the subdural space, is damaged.
Starting point is 00:06:00 Blood escapes from the blood vessel, leading to the formation of a blood clot or hematoma that places pressure on the brain and damages it. Brianna also had bleeding in the membranes around her brain and her optic nerves. This was a strong indication that the little girl had been shaken violently by someone. It was a shock to learn that she had horrific injuries to both of her private areas as well. The physical damage suffered in these regions was not accidental, but rather created by someone who used her for self-gratification while she was still alive and very possibly already dying. There were also at least 15 bite marks on the baby's body.
Starting point is 00:06:42 Brianna had two skull fractures that were five to seven days old as well, and the membranes around her head showed both old and new blood, meaning she had suffered an untreated previous brain injury sometime in her past. Bucket handle fractures were present on both her left and right thighs as well as at the top of her left arm. These were the result of her limbs being violently forced, twisted, and yanked. The child also had two rib fractures on the right side of her chest that had occurred several weeks prior to her death. Brianna's death was quite obviously ruled a homicide based on these findings. If your heart isn't pounding out of your chest while listening to this, then it's possible that one of us isn't human. Either that, or you've worked in a
Starting point is 00:07:29 field that deals with details like this for a long time. Baby Brianna Lopez wasn't even half a year old when she succumbed to torturous injuries that quite clearly had been repeatedly inflicted on her throughout her short, innocent life. The devil is in those details and Brianna was treated like a playtoy for his hell hounds. How could humans be so cruel? I can't imagine what that child felt, never knowing trust, love, comfort, or mercy, only pain, anguish, fear, and violence. She never got to know anything else. Baby Brianna lived in a constant river of pure hell, but whose wicked hands dealt the fire. The answer is as shocking as the results of the autopsy.
Starting point is 00:08:27 Brianna lived in a trailer owned by her grandmother with several other people. Her mother, Stephanie Lopez, her father, Andrew Walters, and her 18-month-old brother, Andy Jr., all lived in one room. A few weeks before Brianna's murder, Stephanie's twin brother Stephen Lopez, also begin living in the room and sleeping on the floor. Brianna's grandmother, Patricia Walters, resided in another part of the trailer with her partner and Andrew's brother, Robert Walters.
Starting point is 00:09:00 That's a total of eight family members in the household, with five in Brianna's room alone. During her police interview, Stephanie Lopez claimed that on the evening of July 18, 2002, the night before the death of her daughter, She had two or three beers at home before falling asleep around 10 p.m. She was sleeping in the shared room with Brianna's father, who remained awake with his brother Robert Walters and Brianna's other uncle, Stephen Lopez. Apparently, 18-month-old Andy Jr. was also present.
Starting point is 00:09:33 Stephanie didn't mention anything else about these people at this time. According to Stephanie, the following morning, July 19th, nearly 12 hours later, Stephanie woke at 9.45 a.m. to find baby Brianna, bruised, pale, and unresponsive. After notifying father Andrew and grandmother Patricia, Stephanie made the call to 911. When she asked Andrew what happened, he replied that Stephen may have thrown her up. But what the hell did that mean? Stephanie claimed that she had witnessed Andrew tossing Brianna into the air days prior to this, but she said she told him to stop out of fear that the child might get hurt
Starting point is 00:10:18 after witnessing Brianna hit her head on the ceiling three times. She believed some of the older bruises on Brianna were a result of this. She also said that the new injuries and abrasions found on her daughter weren't present the night before the child died. And in an attempt to explain the bite marks found on Brianna, Stephanie claimed to have witnessed little 18-month-old Andy Jr. bite his sister. They kept saying it was the little 18-month-old that was biting her. But he rolled that out. A little baby couldn't bite that hard.
Starting point is 00:10:55 Like, a little kid couldn't bite her as hard as what the marks were. And then also it was adult-sized. In his police interview, Rihanna's father, Andrew Walters, recalled what he did the night before his daughter was killed. He said he got off work at around 5 p.m. and he was home by 6 p.m. At around 8 p.m., he picked up Stephen Lopez, purchased a case of beer, and then the two spent the rest of the night at the trailer in the shared room with Stephanie, Andy Jr., Brianna, and potentially others. Andrew claims he fell asleep around midnight and 1 a.m. before waking to check on Brianna
Starting point is 00:11:35 at around 3 a.m. According to him, at this time, she was fine. So, he went. went back to sleep. Andrew got up again at around 7 a.m. and played with Brianna before giving her a blanket, changing her diaper, and drifting back to sleep. When he woke up for the third time, it was 10 a.m. and baby Brianna was in a bad way. In this part of the interview, Andrew admitted that Brianna had fallen off the bed. And after claiming Andy Jr. was the one who left the bite marks on his daughter, he finally admitted. at the truth. The bites were his. He also confessed that Brianna had hit her head on the ceiling after he had repeatedly thrown her up into the air days prior to her death. Walters also claimed
Starting point is 00:12:25 Uncle Stephen Lopez had done the same thing to the child. After a break in the interview, the police finally informed Andrew that his daughter was dead. He admitted that he caused Brianna's bruises but stated that he didn't mean to. He said in his own words that, I didn't mean to leave a bruise like that. I left her with a bruise like that before just from messing with her. Stephanie gets mad. After this, Andrew spilled the beans, painting an awful picture of what happened on the evening of July 18th, the night before Brianna was pronounced dead. He confessed that he and Uncle Stephen had been playing with Brianna a little too rough. The two had been taking turns tossing Brianna up into the ceiling where she was
Starting point is 00:13:12 repeatedly hitting her head. They admitted throwing her in the air and letting her hit the roof and land on the floor, which is only half of what she went through. They were playing video games in the room and all of a sudden they started throwing her in the air like a, they were throwing her like a football.
Starting point is 00:13:29 They admitted she kept hitting the ceiling and falling on the floor. Andrew claims one of these times he missed and failed to catch his daughter as she came crashing down to the floor with nothing to break her. fall. Bear in mind, Brianna was half a year old, so she had fallen multiple times the length of her own body. Andrew went as far as to identify in pictures displaying his daughter's injuries, just
Starting point is 00:13:54 which bruises came from the ceiling and which ones came from the floor. He even pointed out the many bite marks he left on her. When Walters was asked what he did to comfort his daughter after she came crashing into the floor and began to cry, he answered, I just kept throwing her in the air. Andrew Walters is clearly evil. I think that much we can all agree on. If not, you may have stumbled upon the wrong channel. But I have a huge question. Some might call it the elephant in the room.
Starting point is 00:14:30 Others might call it Stephanie Lopez, no matter what you call it. How was she asleep during this? She was in the room her daughter was being tortured in, but totally oblivious to baby Brianna's cries? I don't buy it. Two or three beers is highly unlikely to knock someone out to the point that they sleep for nearly 12 hours straight and ignore the same room cries of their own child. So just what kind of mother was Stephanie Lopez?
Starting point is 00:14:58 Andrew claimed that whenever Stephanie would get mad at Brianna, she would pinch her ears or throw her into a bouncy seat from a distance of about two feet or so. Now remember, the max age of this child when this happened was a about five months, and we don't know how long that was going on. Was everyone around this child a monster? The story, unfortunately, gets worse. When Andrew was shown a photo of the damage to the child's a-h-hast, he became very upset and irreverent, oddly claiming the cops weren't going to find any scene. He then described wrapping a baby wipe around his finger and barbarically inserting it into the child right up to his middle knuckle. When he removed it, he said
Starting point is 00:15:40 there was blood on the baby wipe. Stephanie's twin brother Stephen Lopez, Brianna's uncle, was also interviewed by police on July 19th of 2002. He claimed that on the evening in question, July 18th, he was in the trailer bedroom playing video games with Andrew. He stated that Stephanie, Andrew Jr., and baby Brianna were also present at the time. He also revealed at some point in the night, Andrew's brother, Robert Walters, Brianna's other uncle, arrived with a friend.
Starting point is 00:16:15 Stephen and Andrew sat in the room, drinking beer. Uncle Stephen claimed that Andrew had around four or five beers and nothing unusual happened before he went to bed at around 2 a.m. But a following statement from Stephen Lopez saw him admit to throwing Brianna up into the air, which caused her to hit her head on the ceiling. Both Andrew and Stephen have admitted to this horrendous act of abuse. I don't know where Robert and his friend were at this stage, but I know two disturbing things. Brianna's mother, Stephanie, slept through this in the same room.
Starting point is 00:16:48 And if reports were true, an 18-month-old boy must have witnessed everything. I can only hope that Andy Jr. was in another room. Cops showed Uncle Stephen Lopez the photo of the damage done to Brianna. He denied having anything to do with it, stating, Oh no, I didn't do that. I didn't do nothing like that. But upon further interrogation, his response shifted to, I can't remember, or I don't remember.
Starting point is 00:17:16 Then, shockingly, a short while later, Stephen Lopez stated that he didn't remember starting a sex act on the five-month-old, but he remembered stopping because he realized what he was doing wasn't right. How very Jesus of him. All jokes aside, Stephen is more akin to the Antichrist. Brianna Mariah Lopez was born on Valentine's Day, 2002, in Las Cruces, New Mexico. She was only on this earth for 153 days before her life was taken back by those who gave it to her. Brianna wasn't just abused in the short time leading up to her death.
Starting point is 00:18:01 She was relentlessly assaulted. The little girl was kicked, struck, thrown, pinched, and, and even roared before she was even half a year old. Her father Andrew and her Uncle Stephen thought it was funny when she cried in pain, and in turn would hurt her even more. They would stuff cloth in her mouth to stifle her cries and muffle the sounds. And on the day of her death, as she was dying, her father did what he did with his finger to cover up what happened to the poor child.
Starting point is 00:18:33 As shocking and horrific as this sounds, the sufferings of Brianna were nothing new. This lifestyle of torture was all she knew. Cops searched the trailer prison she was kept in, and apparently they couldn't find a single toy belonging to the five-month-old. There also wasn't a single photo of Brianna smiling or looking happy, and her grandmother Patricia allegedly knew the three were abusing Brianna, but she didn't do anything to stop the monsters from hurting her granddaughter. And ultimately, when the baby couldn't take another day of hell, her body gave up.
Starting point is 00:19:08 One of the nurses said that they let Stephanie in the room to go say goodbye to her. You know, there was a huge bruise on, like from the top of her eye all the way up to her head. They had her laying on the table, and she had a little blanket, you know, kind of covering her body. Stephanie went in and covered her face with the blanket and then just said, I'm sorry. And one of the nurses watched it. The trial was held in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and concluded in 2003. The DA, Susanna Martinez, seeking life in prison for those charged with Brianna's death, was able to prove that the baby's awful condition wasn't caused by one evening,
Starting point is 00:19:46 but rather months of constant abuse. Grandmother Patricia Walters and Uncle Robert Walters were charged with failure to report child abuse or neglect. These were misdemeanors. Either way, Robert and Patricia were convicted and found guilty. They received a five-month sentence. Brianna's worthless Uncle Stephen Lopez admitted to the jury that he had robbed the little girl. He admitted purposely not catching her after throwing her little body up into the air, too, stating, We were just playing with her.
Starting point is 00:20:21 Blood found on baby Brianna matched a blood stain found inside the pants he wore that day. He was found guilty of criminal sexual penetration and child abuse resulting in death, among other related charges. Stephen was sentenced to 57 years behind bars and is now known as inmate No. 5927, where he's currently serving time in Santa Fe at the Level 6 penitentiary of New Mexico. Brianna's trash bag father was convicted similar to that of Stephen Lopez. He was sentenced to 63 years in prison. Previously known as inmate No. 559926, Andrew Walters is now serving time at the Snake River Correctional Facility in Ontario, Oregon.
Starting point is 00:21:04 where he was sent following concerns for his safety. Unfortunately, Andrew's up for parole in 2025. Both of these little men stand at roughly five feet tall and weigh about 100 pounds, hopefully giving them little chance of enjoying life inside. Stephanie Renee Lopez was convicted and sentenced to 27 years in prison. She was previously serving time in the Western New Mexico Correctional Facility, where she was known as inmate number 59941.
Starting point is 00:21:35 But sadly, after serving less than half of her sentence, Stephanie was paroled in 2021 for good behavior with a following two-year probation requirement. An infant raped repeatedly by her father. The girl's own mother did nothing and received a 27-year sentence for not stopping the abuse. In October, Stephanie Lopez will be up for parole. Thousands of people have signed a petition
Starting point is 00:22:00 asking the parole board to keep her behind bars. Members collected more than 60,000 signatures asking to revoke Lopez's parole. Do you have any comment on your release for prison? Only Action 7 News caught up with baby Brianna's mother as she stopped at a gas station in Los Lunas about an hour after being released from prison. Sky 7 was overhead when Lopez walked out of the lockup in grants.
Starting point is 00:22:24 Lopez spending just 13 years in prison after initially being sentenced to 27. A prison spokesperson tells, tells us that she was sentenced under what they call a weak law. Under that statute, Lopez earned a day off of her sentence for every day she served. Jail officials tell us that law has changed. She's now said to reside somewhere in Texas. She's under close supervision and has to wear a tracking device around her ankle.
Starting point is 00:22:50 Maria Perez spent time inside with Lopez. She claimed Stephanie caused no issues while serving her time and that she was an avid Christian seeking prayer and redemption. But I spoke to someone else who was inside with Stephanie, and things weren't as peachy as they seem. According to my source, Lopez knew how to manipulate other women. Apparently when she first arrived at prison, an announcement was made over the intercom demanding that no one harmed the abusive mother unless they wanted to risk added time onto their stay. But apparently that didn't stop other inmates from throwing Stephanie a good old welcome party. to the cages fall.
Starting point is 00:23:43 Nevertheless, hatred toward the abusive mother faded as Stephanie somehow convinced the other inmates that she was a victim and simply set up by Andrew. The story that spread around prison was that Stephanie and the boys were taking drugs the night before Brianna was killed and They were coming down off those drugs when the fatal abuse occurred. Apparently this is why Stephanie slept so well through the demise of Briano. While in prison, Stephanie Lopez developed relationships with other women, even going as far as to chalk up a sexual misconduct type of charge for getting it on with another inmate in the showers.
Starting point is 00:24:20 According to my source, Lopez had everyone believing she too was a victim in this case in that Andrew Walters had forced her to take the drugs. But remember, Stephanie Lopez was a horrible mother in every way. The morning the baby died, Stephanie actually had woken up to Brianna screaming and crying. And when she checked the little girl, she was bruised and battered all over. But Andrew and Stephen simply said, things got a little rough last night. Stephanie ignored that and went back to sleep. When she finally called 911, she told the dispatcher that the little girl had fallen out of her chair.
Starting point is 00:24:58 This was an absolute lie. The truth is, she didn't care about her five-month-old daughter. No one in that trailer did. As a matter of fact, the family buried Brianna in an unmarked grave with no headstone to keep people from finding her. But the public was invested, and they were outraged. They weren't going to let baby Brianna be forgotten again. They found her, and the people paid for her graveside memorial.
Starting point is 00:25:26 The family retaliated by putting a cage around. Brianna's grave but that didn't stop folks from decorating it with all the love Brianna was denied in her short life Brianna's grave site attracted a lot of visitors from the public so her family put up this cage I can understand them not wanting people to come and bother her but I don't feel that it's bothersome to come here and you know place flowers teddy bears well the cage was put here to keep people out. As you can see, that's really not what's happening. It's got some new Christmas ornaments. Visitors have pulled up the mesh from the edges so they can put in stuffed animals and other mementos.
Starting point is 00:26:11 People still do it regardless of the cage. The cage actually brings even more awareness. Hundreds of thousands of people from around the world have petitioned to have the cage removed and a headstone put up. McCuller is part of the Remember Me Foundation, which raises money for memorials for victims of child abuse. The organization had this bench made for Brianna, but getting it put in wasn't easy. The family didn't want anything here, and so the cemetery was backing their wishes. After work and help from the district attorney's office, the bench was finally put in. The plaques were added on this week. McCuller says it's at least one step towards giving Brianna the resting.
Starting point is 00:26:55 place she deserves. So why was baby Brianna treated so cruelly? It's a question that has never really been answered. But I have a theory. Some reports an individual speculated that Andrew may have been in prison around the time Stephanie became pregnant with Brianna. Questions for many pose the possibility that perhaps Stephanie slept with someone else. While it doesn't make it any less evil, it would explain why everyone seemed to hate
Starting point is 00:27:23 this innocent little baby. Regardless, a test was carried out on Brianna that later confirmed she was, in fact, Andrew's daughter. Everyone inside that trailer, apart from the little boy, is responsible for what happened to Brianna Lopez, some more than others. But the three monsters that directly allowed this child to die should never see the light of day again. They should be haunted by their actions and plagued with sleepless nights. How can you grant parole to Brianna's monsters? May we always remember baby Brianna's name and never forget the faces of those who caused the slow and torturous end of her short, painful life. Stephen, Andrew, Stephanie, we will never
Starting point is 00:28:09 forget what you did and we'll make sure you remember. I've started a petition to keep Andrew Walters locked up longer and hopefully persuade the 2025 parole board not to fail Brianna when making their decisions. Please take a moment to check out the description and pinned comment to sign this petition. Will it stop the release of Brianna's monster? Probably not, but it sure couldn't hurt to show where you stand. I'm Mr. Black, and this is the disturbing truth. 18 years for the life of a child, you know, I thought it was absurd. State Senator Mary Jane Garcia helped change the law increasing the punishment to a mandatory life sentence for the crime of child abuse resulting in death.
Starting point is 00:29:10 But former Donya-Anna County DA, Susanna Martinez, felt that the new law would only be adequate if judges actually utilize maximum penalties and their verdicts. At the time Brianna's law was passed, Garcia and Martinez still felt that those who fell to report a bruise should be held accountable by way of stricter penalties and harsher sentences. Those two individuals knew she was being abused. She was full of bruises that were old, green, brown, yellow color. Had they reported it early, had they insisted on that child not being abused, maybe we would have never had her death take place.
Starting point is 00:29:50 They admitted throwing her in the air and letting her hit the roof and land on the floor, which is only half of what she went through. They were playing video games in the room, and all of a sudden they started throwing her in the air, They were throwing her like a football. They admitted she kept hitting the ceiling and falling on the floor. When they first got to the hospital, they tried to claim that the bruise happened while she was at the hospital. But then when they started giving statements, then they all started, you know, having to say that, yeah, she was being thrown in the air.
Starting point is 00:30:39 And then at one point, Stephen also had the CSP on her. He at some point took her in another room supposedly to change her diapers. But when the nursing staff noticed her, so then he admitted that he had stuck fingers in there really rough, we think he had done more. So he was also charged with CSP. So maybe that's another reason they might have had to isolate him more. And if you're isolated, you don't get as much credit. Yeah, I mean, Stephanie admitted that she would pinch hers because she'd get frustrated with her and pull them.
Starting point is 00:31:10 But how do you be a mother and watch that? We know that, I mean, as little, I mean, as crazy as it sounds, the other ones are grandma and other uncle because you can't be in a house with a child and have that going on and not know about it. So, I mean, you know, the real hatred evil people are the ones doing it, but you also have the evilness of letting it happen under your watch and under your home. And they clearly knew how to take care of Andy Jr. But why do we not give one sentence for every child that dies? And then, like I said, you could have a little bit of varying degrees of it, but there shouldn't
Starting point is 00:31:46 be this, this, but they did it because the defense attorneys and our legislation, because our legislature is a voluntary legislature. They technically don't get paid for doing this. They get paid plenty, but they don't have a salad. They're not, they're not year-round legislators. All of our legislators that deal with criminal, the criminal law and the legislation that relates to criminal justice is defense attorneys. So there's always a bust. And if you just search a little bit, of the laws we've tried to pass to protect our community, not just child abuse cases, but DWIs, anything. It gets shut down because the majority of the ones that are voting
Starting point is 00:32:27 that care about these kind of cases are defense attorneys. I'm so thankful we have it. Like, I'm very proud that we have what we have, but it's not effective. You can't even if you're all the law and crime series of this law and crime series, ad-free right now. Now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

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