Law&Crime Sidebar - The Rise and Fall of WWE Founder Vince McMahon

Episode Date: February 10, 2024

Vince McMahon, 78, rocketed to stardom in the 1980s and has been flying high ever since. But his success in the entertainment industry may have been masking a perverse secret life. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber chronicles the rise of McMahon through the years and the bombshell information released in a new lawsuit.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can submit a claim in 8 clicks or less without having to leave your couch. To start your claim, visit: https://www.forthepeople.com/LCSidebarHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. She literally felt caged and imprisoned by Vince McMahon. Vince McMahon rocketed to start him in the 1980s and has been flying high ever since. But a success in the entertainment industry may have been masking a perverse secret life. We're laying out the rise of Vince McMahon through the years and the bombshell information released in a new lawsuit that could bring down the multimillionaire. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by law and crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Whether you're a fan of professional wrestling or not,

you have likely heard the name Vince McMahon, or the WWE, or its many brands and events like Raw, Smackdown, WrestleMania. And whether you're a fan or not, you have probably also heard some disturbing news about Vince McMahon and these newly revealed sexual abuse allegations levied against him by a former WWE employee, Janelle Graham. But before we even get to that, what could ultimately be the wrestling legend's ultimate downfall, let's take a step back,

okay? Because in order to understand how we got there, in order to understand Vince McMahon's infamy and his apparent ironclad hold on the WW Empire, we need to go back in time a little bit. The now 78 year old was born in Pinehurst, North Carolina in 1945. You may recognize the name Pinehurst, by the way, it's home to the Pinehurst Resort, where many major golf tournaments have been held over the years. Now, McMahon's father, a wrestling promoter, also named Vincent McMahon, allegedly walked out on the family shortly after his son was born. Vince McMahon reportedly didn't meet his father until later on in life. In 1966, McMahon married Linda Edwards to have remained married, although reports indicate they have been separated in the last few years.

McMahon graduated from East Carolina University and went to work for his father's wrestling Company, Capital Wrestling Corporation, later known as Worldwide Wrestling Federation, or WWWF, as a commentator or ring announcer back in 1969. Now, McMahon and his wife then founded Titan Sports in 1980, and soon after McMahon purchased the WWF from his father. It was ultimately shortened to WWF or World Wrestling Federation. Interesting side note here, by the way, the entertainment giant actually went to court over those initials.

WWF was already being used by the World Wildlife Fund, which has had that trademark since 1961. So that is why it has now become WWE or World Wrestling Entertainment. It's been that way since the early 2000s. Now, talking about McMahon's rise to fame, he held the first WrestleMania event at Madison Square Garden in 1985, and his legendary status was officially cemented. For many years, McMahon was most of.

just an announcer and not directly acknowledged as the owner of the company, but McMahon's real life fled over into the ring when he took on the character of Mr. McMahon, the chairman of WWE, who wrestling fans love to hate. He would participate in several storylines over the years, getting into these grudges, getting into these matches, he threw punches himself, he took hits himself. It's actually led to a now infamous moment during WrestleMania 23 in April of 2007. It was called the Battle of the Billionaires, Vince McMahon, and Donald Trump. Yes, that Donald Trump, they each picked a wrestler to represent them in the ring. And in the end, McMahon's guy lost.

So Trump got to shave McMahon's head live on TV. Now, let's think about this for a second, because as we think about McMahon's appearances on WWB programming in light of these new sexual abuse allegations that we're going to talk about, I had the chance to speak with Tom Campbell. He is an expert in the wrestling industry. He is the presenter for cultaholic wrestling. And he had something very interesting to say about this. For many years on WWE television, Vince McMahon, Mr. McMahon, has been a prominent character.

And the role he is very often played as this megalomaniacal, manipulative boss who gets employees to bend to his will, often sharing, romantic scenes with female wrestlers as well, scenes that would have been signed off on or completely written by Vince McMahon himself. And all of a sudden, a lot of these scenes, a lot of the verbiage, a lot of what the Mr. McMahon character is about, but it's been put in a very, very troubling light with the accusations that we've heard. There have been other instances over the years of Vince McMahon degrading female wrestlers in the ring. There's one particular incident in 2001 where he makes a female wrestler walk around on all fours in her underwear and bark like a dog.

We're going to play more of my interview with Tom Campbell throughout this, but going back to Vince McMahon, his last WWE appearance was in June of 2022 on Monday Night Raw. WWB programming has been some of the most watch TV over the past several decades, and that is what has turned it into a billion-dollar industry, and Vince McMahon into a multi-multimillionaire who has been pulling nearly all of the strings along the way. Now, that is the rise. Let's talk about the fall. Because for years, Vince McMahon was surrounded by controversies,

and he has been accused of wrongdoing and using his position. and money to cover things up. For example, in 1983, the girlfriend of wrestler Jimmy Superfly Snooka wound up dead with injuries that were reportedly consistent with brain trauma and physical abuse. McMahon allegedly had a meeting with the assistant district attorney and detectives, but afterwards, no charges were filed against Snooka. Then in April of 1992, Rita Chatterton, who went by the stage named Rita Marie, went on Geraldo Rivera show to reveal all of these actions.

accusations against McMahon. Chatternan had been the only female referee for the organization in the 1980s. She says McMahon propositioned her in the back of a limousine in upstate New York in 1986. Next thing I know Vince McMahon is on zipping his pants. I was pretty shocked at that point. I, you know, I mean, we're talking profession here, and suddenly he wants more than just profession. Vince continued to, you know, if you want a half a million dollar comment, contract, you're going to have to satisfy me, and this is the way things have to go.

Chatterden went on to say that she refused, so McMahon raped her. Her story was corroborated by another former wrestler in an interview with New York magazine in 2022, and later on in 2022, Chatterden filed a sexual abuse lawsuit. McMahon denied the allegations, maintained his innocence, but ended up settling the lawsuit for what's believed to be, possibly around $11 million. In 1993, the Department of Justice indicted Vinclair. Vince McMahon on charges that he conspired to distribute steroids to his wrestlers, but he was ultimately acquitted after an 18-day trial in 1994.

And I can't emphasize enough how serious this was because, if convicted, he could have spent over 10 years in prison. Then you go to February 2006. A woman who worked at a tanning salon in Boca Raton, Florida, accused McMahon of showing her nude photos of himself and trying to grope and kiss her. He was arrested and charged with sexual battery, but prosecutors declined to move. forward with the case. In 2011, a former spa manager at a California resort accused McMahon of assault. And information about McMahon's alleged sexual liaisons and possible criminal activity

all came to light 2022 when a Wall Street Journal investigation revealed that McMahon had made payouts to multiple women to cover up extramarital affairs, and this totaled more than $12 million. The W.W.E. Board did its own investigation when it learned about a $3 million settlement that McMahon had agreed to pay, Janelle Grant, the woman at the center of this new lawsuit against McMahon. And this investigation disclosed that nearly $20 million in unrecorded payments had been made by McMahon between 2006 and 2022, essentially misappropriated corporate funds.

It was reported that McMahon eventually repaid this money. As that investigation was underway, McMahon stepped down as chairman, naming his daughter Stephanie McMahon as interim CEO, and his resignation became official a month later. But then, just six months later, he was appointed back to the WWE board once again becoming chairman of WWE. This happened in January of 2023.

How? Well, he never sold his stock. He was the controlling shareholder, and he used that majority interest to replace three board members. In April of 2023, WWE announced it would merge with the UFC, the Ultimate Fighting Championship, under the new name TKO Group Holdings,

and McMahon would remain as executive chairman. What happened is McMahon essentially orchestrated a coup to get back onto the board. He appointed long-standing associates in George Barrios and Michelle Wilson to the WWE board, and this gave him enough voting power to allow him back into the board and resume his position as executive chairman. Stephanie McMahon left the company very suddenly, as this took place. And soon after we had the deal that came through with Endeavour,

who's the umbrella company that own the UFC. That led to the formation of TKO group holdings. And Ari Emanuel, who is the big boss of all of that, who has had a longstanding relationship with Vince McMahon, went on TV and said, if Vince McMahon tries to leave, I'm going to body slam him. So all of a sudden, Vince had put himself into this position once more and found a really powerful ally. I don't know how else that we would describe it other than almost a coup to get back in against the best wishes of the rest of the board. We know that other board members resigned over it. The interesting part of this is all of this came about because of an investigation that took place. And as has been reported in the court documents, at no point was Janelle Grant approached to be interviewed for this internal investigation.

Arguably, she'd be the most important person you'd want to talk to. And let's talk about that. So we go to January 25th, 2024, and that is when Janelle Grant, a former staffer within WWE, who had been hired and eventually fired by McMahon, filed a shocking lawsuit, accusing McMahon of using his position to force her into a sexual relationship and then assaulting her repeatedly. This is a lawsuit that accuses him of everything from rape to human trafficking. Now, here is something interesting.

You remember what I said McMahon had agreed to pay her authority? $3 million settlement that initially started that investigation by the W.W.E. board, well, he allegedly was two months late on a payment of $500,000 to grant and hasn't paid her since February 2022. Apparently, he only paid her $1 million of three. Janelle Grant claims, in her 60-plus page suit, that McMahon had complete control over her after coercing her into a sexual relationship that became more violent and more invasive over time. The suit was filed in Connecticut because that is where McMahon and Grant are both residents, and that's also where WWE headquarters is based.

And according to this lawsuit, Grant met McMahon in 2019 when they lived in the same building. Grant's attorneys say that she had been the full-time caregiver for her parents who both died. The family home was lost in their bankruptcy. Grant says that she was introduced to McMahon by a mutual friend, and he immediately started showing her a lot of attention. Grant says that she was coerced into a sexual relationship with McMahon, in exchange for a new role at WWE called Administrator Coordinator Coordinator in the Legal Department.

And we here at Long Crime, we spoke with Anne Callis, Grant's attorney, about what her client was subjected to. What happened to her and what we allege left her physically and mentally absolutely destroyed. So she is trying to recover and she believes this is the first step. filing this lawsuit took such tremendous courage from her. She was an extremely vulnerable position when she first encountered Vince McMahon. Her parents had passed. She was the primary caregiver for her parents. So already, besides being an

inordinately uneven playing field between Vince McMahon and Janelle, our client, she still tried to conduct herself, tried to be the best possible employee for the WWE that she could be under the most devastating and sexually depraved circumstances. And despite grants alleged pleased to end this essentially quid pro quo, sexual relationship, it did not, and according to Grant, it only got worse. Grant's lawsuit says that McMahon would share sexually explicit photos and videos of her with men both inside and outside the company, including TV production teams, executive

producers, and even a world-famous athlete looking to sign with the WWE. That person is not identified in the suit. Speaking of that, this WWE superstar, McMahon is accused of using Grant as a sexual pawn, to entice this person to sign a new contract with the WWE. He allegedly told the WWE superstar that Grant will, quote, do anything. The suit says that McMahon texted Grant a reminder that she was his enslaved object, writing, quote, I want to drive you lower and lower so low that you might beg me to sell you. McMahon is accused of recruiting individuals to have sex with Grant or participate in threesomes.

She was expected to perform sex acts at WWE headquarters before, during, after work hours. Janelle was in just an atmosphere of fear. I think perhaps some of the employees or many of the employees were in an atmosphere of fear. And that permeated her being and I think it permeated the office, the entire headquarters. As an example of what she was subjected to, the lawsuit says on May 9th, 2020, McMahon defecated on Grant's head during a threesome and then commanded her to continue the sexual encounter with this third person in this sexual trist. Allegedly this person was McMahon's physical

therapist. McMahon reportedly showered Grant with gifts, allegedly financed by the WWE, including tickets to VIP events, gift cards worth thousands of dollars, clothing, jewelry, flowers, a BMW, chef catered dinners, a spa vacation. In January of 2022, McMahon told Grant that his wife had found out about their sexual relationship. He said her time at the WWE was at an end, but insisted that she signed an NDA, a non-disclosure agreement. And in the suit, her lawyers say,

quote, in the days ahead, McMahon put Ms. Grant under immense pressure to sign, saying that refusing would not only jeopardize McMahon, his family, and the company, but that she'd surely become a public headline, suffer reputational ruin, including from the pornographic content McMahon had captured and face McMahon's legal resources.

Conversely, McMahon reassured her that her signature would ensure his continued support and protection and safeguard her reputation, ultimately Ms. Grants succumbed to the pressure and sign the NDA in exchange for payments, which McMahon later stopped making. The lawsuit claims that multiple high-ranking employees at WWE knew about the sexual relationship as well as assaults allegedly committed on Grant at the offices but did nothing to stop it. France legal team says that she is suffering from PTSD and has struggled with suicidal ideation. She was targeted and preyed upon, and she, as I mentioned before, she was in a very vulnerable position. And Vince McMahon took advantage of that and then took it a million steps further in the sexual torture, the degradation, the push pull of trauma bonding.

all occurred to her and it's she's still to this day trying to process what happened to her she she literally could not get out of bed she wasn't had any personal grooming she's not really eating um it's it's really taken a toll besides the physical of injuries she'd suffered but mcmann is not the only one named in this lawsuit aside from mcmann and the the WWE, John Laurinitis, a former wrestler who went by the stage named Johnny Ace, is also accused of brutal attacks on Grant. Loranitis worked in the Talent Relations Office at WWE for several years. At one point during her tenure at WWE, Janelle Grant says that she was moved from the

legal department to the talent relations office with Laurenitis as her supervisor. According to the lawsuit, McMahon and Laurenitis had sexual contact with her in an office at W.W.E. Headquarters. She claims that she begged them to stop, but each held her down as the assaults happened. They allegedly said to her, quote, no means yes. Grant was also allegedly expected to meet Laurenitis at a hotel for sexual liaisons before reporting to work. Now, here's where things take an interesting turn, because in his statement to the media, Laurenitis's attorney, Edward Brennan, said, quote, Mr. Laurenitis denies the allegations in the misguided complaint and will be vigorously defended.

these charges in court, not the media. Like the plaintiff, Mr. Lorinitis is a victim in this case, not a predator. The truth will come out. Brennan went on to say, quote, power, control, employment supervisory capacity, dictatorial sexual demands with repercussions, if not met. Count how many times in the complaint Vince exerts control over both of them. Interesting legal argument there. talking about such a complex and potentially massive lawsuit like the McMahon case,

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Now, this lawsuit has several different claims or causes of action that I want to go into. And remember, in a civil case, the standard of proof is not beyond a reasonable doubt like we have in a criminal case, but usually it's preponderance of the evidence, meaning grant has to show that more than likely this happened, more than 50 percent. that this is true. So it's a lower standard to prove, but you still got to prove it. You still got to prove your claims, nonetheless. And here, not only Grant's account, but the incredibly sexually explicit text messages that are included in this complaint, the ones from McMahon, they can definitely help her case. And during discovery where they are going to get more information

and evidence from the defendants, Grant's hope is to get more evidence to prove her claim. And these can be very difficult for McMahon to argue against. And we can't read, or show you these text messages in the complaint because honestly they are just too graphic. They're too explicit. They're too disgusting. But they include alleged texts from McMahon in which he describes violent sex acts. He wants to perform on Grant or have others perform on her. The messages call her all sorts of degrading names and tell her what other men have said

about these explicit photos and videos of her. He appears to also be scheduling sexual liaisons between Grant and other men like Laurenitis. The text purportedly from McMahon also repeatedly tell Grant that if anyone were to find out about the relationship, she would lose her job and possibly face legal consequences. But let's go through these counts. Okay, there are nine of them in this complaint. And the first two are asking for declaratory relief, basically asking for a court to set the record straight about someone's rights. So here, Grant is asking that the NDA that she signed, the non-disclosure agreement, that it be deemed void, that it be deemed illegal under federal law. namely the Speak Out Act.

She argues that it invalidates these contracts if there is a sexual assault or harassment dispute. The second claim argues that the NDA is invalid under Connecticut's common law. That's not a statute, but the laws that come from judges' decisions and court cases. And here, Grant says the NDA is too broad and that she entered into this NDA under duress. The third cause of action says that McMahon and Laurenitis violated the Trafficking Victims Protection Act. of 2000 or TVPA. So the suit claims that these men recruited, enticed, solicited grant, all for sexual abuse and exploitation, especially as McMahon was traveling across the United States, crossing

state lines, and that he caused others to travel across the United States for purposes of sexually exploiting Ms. Grant. So the idea of the sexual abuse tied to crossing state lines and to commercial activity, that's namely promising grant career advancement at the WWE in exchange for sex acts, that's the key for sex trafficking, that they used fraud such as the lure of career opportunity to coerce grant into sexual activities. And in a similar fashion, count four is that the WWE knowingly participated in this trafficking and benefited from and facilitated this venture in violation of the TVPA.

For example, by McMahon using Grant as a sexual commodity to entice WWE superstar to sign a contract with the WWE that benefited the organization. Count five is negligence. That's when you have a legal duty to use reasonable care and you don't do that and it causes injury or harm. Here, this negligence claim against the WWE is that they failed as an employer who has the responsibility and duty to make sure their employees are safe and protected. and they didn't do that. Count six is civil battery against McMahon and the WWE. It's about intentional, harmful, and offensive contact that McMahon allegedly engaged in, and there is one particular disturbing account that is cited,

where McMahon forced Grant to perform oral sex on him in a very graphic and violent scene. She claims that the WWE is legally liable for the actions of its chairman under a vicarious liability legal theory, where you hold companies on the hook for the actions of their employees who engage in wrongdoing while in the scope of their employment. Count seven is civil battery again. This time it's against Laurinitis and the WWE, specifically these forced sexual contact acts with her,

including at his office at the WWE headquarters. Count eight and count nine are intentional or negligent infliction of emotional distress against McMahon, Laurinitis, and the WWE, basically that he intended or should have known his actions would cause Grant to suffer emotional distress. And she lists out a number of extreme and outrageous forms of conduct, like with McMahon's text messages, the sexual assault, trafficking, exploiting her. She claims that Laurinitis treated her like a sexual object,

including forcing her to travel to his hotel for sexual activity, and the complaint highlights that he and McMahon were her bosses. Let's not forget that, her bosses, supervisors. And in terms of what she's asking, she wants to invalidate the NDA, she wants compensatory and punitive damages. Remember, that's a form of punishing the defendant. And according to Grant's attorney, since news of this lawsuit first broke, she has received numerous calls from other alleged victims who are sharing their own stories about Vince McMahon, so this could be just the tip of the iceberg. But now let's talk about TKO Group Holdings, okay, the holding company, the parent company for the WWE, because they issued a statement in light of this.

And they said, quote, Mr. McMahon does not control TKO, nor does he oversee the day-to-day operations of VATO. W. While this matter predates our TKO executive team's tenure at the company, we take Ms. Grants' horrific allegations very seriously and are addressing this matter internally. It's an interesting question regarding TCO's knowledge of all this, because in TKO's quarterly regulatory filing with the SEC that was filed in September of 2023, the company wrote, quote, Mr. McMahon's membership on our board could expose us to negative publicity and or have other adverse financial and operational impacts on our business. The company also said his membership may result in additional scrutiny.

TKO bought the company after these allegations came to light, but they were obviously, as we've talked about today, prior allegations very much out there. You have to believe they've been aware of. Despite this, Vince McMahon was installed as executive chairman of the board, and his contract with TKO was pretty ironclad as well. He would only be removed from the board, according to the right, for the board that if he resigned, became incapacitated or died. So he was in there for the long run.

This has been written into it. What I find interesting is that TCO put out that statement saying they were addressing the matter. And what a few hours later, it was revealed that Slim Jim, who is a very prominent sponsor with WWE, have been since the 90s on and off, had paused their working relations. relationship with WWE. Now, this came just days before WWE were set to host a huge premium live event,

the Royal Rumble, in which Slim Jim was sponsoring a match on the show, and it was worth millions of dollars this sponsorship. And they said, while this is going on, this goes against our ethics, and we're pausing. And it was amazing how quickly it was announced that Vince McMahon was residing from the board after Slim Jim pulled the sponsorship money.

And yes, McMahon once again resigned, saying in a statement, quote, out of respect for the WWE universe, the extraordinary TKO business and its board members and shareholders, partners and constituents, and all of the employees and superstars who help make WWE into the global leader it is today, I have decided to resign from my executive chairmanship and the TKO board of directors' effective media.

But he also denied the allegations, saying that this lawsuit was, quote, replete with lies, obscene, made up instances that never occurred and was a vindictive distortion of the truth. Now, what does this all mean for the WWE organization? There's been a lot of conversations about how Vince McMahon has been so untouchable throughout his time. I don't see him coming back from this.

In fact, I see further change coming in the sense that reports have said that there will now be further investigation to remove anybody that is associated with Vince McMahon from TKO completely, which is unfathomable for a longstanding wrestling fan, because for as long as I've been a fan, as long as anyone's been a fan, McMahon's have been heavily involved with the company. They are, you know, they are at WWF and WWF is the McMahon's, but we're reaching a point where that's not the case. The only family member left within the company is the son-in-law, Paul Lavec, known to fans as Triple-H. She's WWE's Chief Content Officer.

In fact, WWE had an opportunity at the press conference following the Royal Rumble to make a comment about this. I wanted to bring this up. And WWE's Chief Content Officer, Paul Nevec, Triple H, took questions at the press conference, and pretty much all the questions were about the allegations. And as opposed to reading a prepared statement saying, this is a legal matter,

that we can't comment on all of that almost look quite frustrated by people asking and opted to try and get people to focus on the positives instead citing the record attendance for the event and people like that's not how is that more pressing than what's being talked about now the rock now being installed as a member of the board of directors he brings with him a former vice president of his company seven bucks productions by the name of brian gawartz and brian gawartz was a former head writer for of B. And some sources within the wrestling community suggests that maybe this is a move to have a plan B to possibly replace or succeed Triple H. Should there be more changes and more people removed? The general vibe when it comes to TCO is if you were strongly connected to Vince McMahon, then might be big change for you coming. And thinking about all of that, sources say that the feds could be in on this. now too. The Wall Street Journal reports that McMahon has been the subject of a federal probe into potential sex trafficking and sexual assault charges since at least 2022. There was reportedly

a federal warrant that was issued at McMahon's cell phone was seized. And more specifically, the grand jury subpoena that was issued to McMahon had requested any documents related to, quote, rape, sex trafficking, sexual assault, commercial sex transaction, harassment or discrimination against current or former WWE employees. The Wall Street Journal also reports that Grant is one of five women who are cooperating with the federal investigation. So there is just so much to think about in this case, especially when you consider how it all started with Vince McMahon and where he is today, a lot to grasp. And we will, of course, continue to follow this case and see where this lawsuit goes.

And that is all we have for you here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. And please subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.