Law&Crime Sidebar - TikTok Sleuth Slammed with Lawsuit from Idaho Professor Over Student Murders Conspiracy

Episode Date: December 23, 2022

A University of Idaho professor has filed a lawsuit against Ashely Guillard, a web sleuth who posts videos on TikTok claiming the professor is implicated in the quadruple student murders. The Law&Crime Network's Angenette Levy and constitutional lawyer Kermit Roosevelt break it down.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Get The Nation That Never Was: Reconstructing America's Story: https://amzn.to/3BV5ftCLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Logan HarrisGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. That's after she backstabs the killer. She's not going to live up to her promises for him. A TikToker and self-proclaimed internet sleuth sued for defamation after she repeatedly claims a University of Idaho history professor is responsible for the murders of four students. So how strong is this professor's case? I'm Ann Janette Levy and welcome to law and crime's sidebar podcast. Imagine waking up one day and finding out that there's a TikTok page basically dedicated to calling you a murderer. That happened to Professor Rebecca Schofield of the

University of Idaho. She is a history professor there. And Schofield is suing a woman named Ashley Gillard for defamation after Gellard posted more than 20 videos accusing Schofield of taking part in the murders and having a relationship with one of the victims. Maddie Mogan, Kaylee Gonsolvis, Zana Cernodle, and Ethan Chapin were all murdered in an off-campus home on November 13th. Schofield says to her knowledge, she's never met any of these students and she's never had any of them in her history classes. Right after the murders, Ashley Gullard started posting TikTok videos about Professor Schofield, claiming that she partnered with someone else to commit these murders. According to Schofield's lawsuit, her lawyer sent two cease and desist letters to Gullard, but she didn't stop posting about her and claiming that the professor was involved in the murders.

Kermit Roosevelt is a constitutional law expert and a professor at the Pencarry Law School at the University of Pennsylvania. and he's also the author of The Nation That Never Was, Reconstructing America's Story. Professor Roosevelt, welcome to Sidebar. Thanks for coming on. Thanks so much for having me. What are your thoughts as you look through the TikTok videos that you're seeing on this woman's page? Well, my main thought is something has gone wrong here. This is a bad situation.

It's bad for the professor who is having these accusations made against her. It's also bad for the person who's making the accusations, who's subjecting herself to significant legal exposure. So it suggests to me that social media has introduced new dangers in our society, and we should maybe be thinking about ways to mitigate those. I find that to be an interesting point because I think people don't understand or may not realize or in some cases may not care, that what you say on social media is the same as you writing it in the newspaper. It's the same as you posting it anywhere or speaking it. This is a forum where somebody's reputation can be damaged. It's almost like TikTok to me is the

wild, wild west here. People have gone crazy with this case. Talk to me a little bit about what your responsibilities are as anyone posting on social media. Well, as you said, it's the same. So communication over social media, communication over the internet, that's real. And I think probably everyone is familiar with the phenomenon where people are less inhibited posting online. They are meaner than they would be normally. They're more extreme. And if you're anonymous and you're just flaming people anonymously, then I guess it's limited. And the harm that that can follow is limited. But if you're doing this publicly and you're disseminating your speech to millions of people potentially, you could be causing massive reputational harm. And the things that are being said on

these TikToks are certainly defamatory. You know, there are allegations of involvement in a crime in allegations of professional misconduct. So there's a potential for very serious reputational harm. And then, as I said, you can't just say that about someone if it's not true. And I know no evidence suggesting that it is true. So there's very significant potential defamation liability for the speaker here, too. I think it's important that we note this isn't just accusing Professor Schofield of murder. She is saying that she was romantically involved with one of the victims. Professor Schofield says that's not true. I've never met these people. to my knowledge, I've never met them. I've never had them in my history classes. What does the professor have to prove here in order to win this case? Well, this is a matter of public concern. Obviously, the public is very interested in this case. So it's not the best case for a defamation plaintiff. But Professor Schofield is a private individual. She hasn't inserted herself into this controversy. She's not a public figure. So constitutionally speaking, she could recover on a mere showing of negligence. So she has to show that the statements are false, that they are defamatory, they injure her reputation, and that the speaker was negligent in not learning that they were false and in expressing them anyway.

What I think is interesting about this is that there are commenters on some of these videos who say, where are you coming up with this stuff? And it almost seems like this Ashley is obsessed with this idea. and she is convinced that is true in my viewing of some of these TikToks, I'm astounded at how many there are and the ways she's discussing this and justifying her position. And I wanted to ask you, too, you know, you were saying that the professor is a private individual, which I find interesting because if she were a public figure, it would be a higher bar, of course. You'd have to prove actual malice. But there's no argument to be made as a university professor that you were in some way, shape, or form a public figure.

No, she's not a general public figure and she's not a limited purpose public figure either. So if she had inserted herself into this controversy and said, I know who the murderer is, and then someone else had said, actually, I think it's you. Maybe she should be a public figure for that purpose. But as far as I know, she was just trying to stay out of this, she didn't have anything to do with it. So you can't reach out and take a private individual and thrust them into the limelight against their wishes without them doing anything and then say they're a public figure. So she has all of the ordinary protections accorded to private individuals.

We've reached out to Ashley Gillard. And as of this recording, we haven't yet heard back from her. I also reached out to Professor Schofield directly and her lawyer sent a statement. I want to put that up on the screen. It says the statements made about Professor Schofield are false, plain and sim. What's even worse is that these untrue statements create safety issues for the professor and her family. They also further compound the trauma that the families of the victims are experiencing and undermine law enforcement efforts to find the people responsible in order to provide answers to the families and the public. Professor Schofield twice sent cease and desist letters to Ms. Gillard.

But Ms. Gillard has continued to make false statements knowing they are false. Thus, this lawsuit became necessary to protect Professor Schofield's safety and. her reputation. What does this tell you that this Ashley is continuing to post even after receiving cease and desist letters? Well, it seems to me that she's not acting very rationally, honestly, because based on what I know, this seems like a very strong lawsuit. And refusing to comply with cease and desist letters puts her in a worse position. So it looks to me as though she is not calculating the costs and benefits to her of this behavior. And You know, this is sort of the problem that I started out with.

The thing about social media is it makes everyone a publisher. It makes everyone able, potentially, to reach a very wide audience. And we used to have gatekeeper. So I could have, you know, 20 years ago, written an op-ed accusing some private individual of involvement in some notorious crime, you know, say the O.J. Simpson case, I could have said, this professor somewhere is the real killer. And I could have sent that out to the New York Times, but they never would have published it. So it never would have reached a lot of people, you know, my own musings about the case.

But now certain things go viral on TikTok and it's hard to predict why. And someone coming up with accusations that don't really seem to have any foundation can suddenly reach millions of people. I'm somewhat surprised that there hasn't been some type of criminal complaint taken here. This almost seems like it could reach the level of harassment. I don't know if you believe that. But it seems to me that this is harassing this professor. Well, so I'm not sure exactly what the crime there would be.

And there are significant free speech protections for even, you know, encouragement of illegal behavior as long as it's not imminent. So I think that's probably a harder road to go down than defamation. I mean, defamation, this looks like a very strong case to me. Criminal liability, I think, would be harder. Now, sometimes you could get a restraining order. That's an interesting point. It just seems to me that this is just really obviously crossed a line. And again, we reached out to Ashley and she hasn't yet responded to our request for comment. Professor, I want you to tell us before we wrap up here a little bit about your book, The Nation that Never Was Reconstructing America's Story. What's it about? Oh, thanks so much. Well, so it's about American identity and American values and really where they come from.

And my basic point is we tell ourselves a story where our value of equality, really, which is sort of our central value, comes to us from the founding fathers. And it's there in 1776. And my argument is it's really not there in 1776. It comes to us mostly from abolitionists. And if we're looking for the historical moment that makes America, we should be looking at reconstruction and the civil war, not the revolution in the 1787. Constitution. Very interesting indeed. Well, Professor Roosevelt, any final thoughts on the lawsuit involving Professor Schofield? Well, my final thought is it's a really sad situation for everyone involved. And, you know, without knowing more about why Ashley is doing this or what she's thinking, it's hard to say how much sympathy we should have for her. But, you know, there are people in the comments. They're saying, get yourself a lawyer. You're exposing yourself to ruinous liability.

and I sort of feel like she is not a sophisticated actor with legal counsel who fully understands what she's getting into. And I was actually wondering whether she might have some mental health issues and just looking at some of these videos too. So it would be wise for her to seek legal counsel for sure and stop posting these videos. Professor Kermit Roosevelt, thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate your time. Thanks so much for having me.

And that's it for this edition of Law and Crime Sidebar Podcast. podcast. It is produced by Sam Goldberg, Michael Dininger, and Logan Harris. Bobby Zoki is our YouTube manager. Kira Bronson handles all social media. And Alyssa Fisher is our booking producer. You can listen to and download Sidebar on Apple, Spotify, Google, and wherever else you get your podcast. And of course, you can always watch it on Law and Crimes YouTube channel. I'm Ann Janette Levy, and we will see you next time. You can binge all episodes of this law and crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.