Law&Crime Sidebar - Top 5 Damning Pieces of Evidence Against Alec Baldwin in ‘Rust’ Shooting Case

Episode Date: March 9, 2024

Famed actor Alec Baldwin was indicted on one charge of involuntary manslaughter in connection to the fatal shooting of “Rust” cinematographer Halyna Hutchins in 2021. Baldwin’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, was convicted of involuntary manslaughter after numerous pieces of evidence were presented to a New Mexico jury. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber breaks down the five most damning pieces of evidence presented in Gutierrez’s trial the state may use to prosecute Baldwin.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:If you’ve suffered an injury and need legal support click www.attorneytom.com/Sidebar for a FREE consultation or dial 855-TOM-WINS.HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. views shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Did Mr. Baldwin also contribute when he pointed the gun at people and pulled the hammer back and regardless of what he said to George Stephanopoulos pulled the trigger? Yes, he is. We may have covered the evidence against Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, the armor convicted of manslaughter for the fatal shooting on the Russ film set. However, there was also arguably a lot of incriminating evidence revealed against the alleged shooter actor Alec Baldwin. We'll break it

down. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. So if you've been following us here on Sidebar, you know for the past week or so, we have been dedicated to covering the Hannah Gutierrez-Reed trial out of New Mexico, the armor on the movie set Russ that was just convicted of involuntary manslaughter in connection with the shooting death of cinematographer Helena Hutchins. Now, Helena, she was gunned down when a live round was fired from a prop gun being handled by lead actor and producer on the film Alec Baldwin. This happened back on October 21st, 2021.

Now, Gutierrez-Reed was found guilty after evidence was presented that she loaded the gun with live ammunition and or failed to properly check the gun before that rehearsal, that she kept a sloppy set, that there was live ammunition loose, that there were accidental discharges, actors holding weapons improperly. This was all to show how foreseeable this accident was. But through this case, we didn't just hear about her, no. We also heard about Alec Baldwin, and we heard about Alec Baldwin a lot.

Now, as you may know, he too is charged with involuntary manslaughter in this case. In fact, he's scheduled to go to trial in July. So we wanted to go over the evidence that was revealed in this trial that may possibly be used at his trial, kind of a preview, if you will. So let's actually start this off with something from the end of Hannah Gutierrez-Reed's trial. This is when special prosecutor Carrie Morrissey, in her closing argument, referenced Alec Baldwin in a very interesting way. The defense. Alec Baldwin is to blame. for acting like a prima donna on the movie set and bossing people around this is Hollywood for heaven's sakes I would imagine that's relatively common don't get me

wrong I'm not saying that his conduct was right I am the person who indicted him Alec Baldwin's conduct and his lack of gun safety inside that church on that day is something that he's going to have to answer for. Not with you and not today. That'll be with another jury on another day. The astonishing lack of diligence with regard to gun safety is without question a significant cause of the death of Helena Hutchins. Did Mr. Baldwin also contribute when he pointed the gun at people and pulled the hammer back?

And regardless of what he said to George Stephanopoulos pulled the trigger? Yes, he is. And again, we'll deal with that another time. So that sets up perfectly in my mind what we can expect in her opening statement in July in Alec Baldwin's trial. That while him being the boss, rushing the production, may not negate the responsibility of Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, It actually should have given her more reason to slow down production to make sure there were no safety lapses, maybe keep a more careful eye on what Baldwin was doing. But as the lead actor, as the boss, as the producer in the film, he had a responsibility too.

He had the authority. He had the control over what was happening. That will be the argument, I imagine. And if you follow any of our previous sidebars where we talked about all of the problems on the set, including, as I mentioned, accidental discharges, in a way, way, is it not his responsibility? Did he not know this was going on? But more than that, what did he do on the actual day Helena died? He allegedly took out a weapon, pointed it, and fired it, especially problematic that he would do this without ensuring the armor was there

in the church during this rehearsal. Now, to be clear, let me lay out the involuntary manslaughter charge here. So like with Gutierrez-Reed, there are two alternative theories by which the jury could find him guilty. Either he caused the death of Helena Hutchins by negligently using a firearm or, in the alternative, he acted with total disregard or indifference to the safety of others, and he should have known that someone could be killed. Basically, it's like negligence, acting without due caution or circumspection. Now, you heard her mention George Stephanopoulos from ABC News. How can we forget that Alec Baldwin famously told the ABC reporter that he did not pull the trigger. Quote, I didn't pull the trigger.

I would never point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger at them. But when you listen to Bryce Ziegler, the FBI firearms examiner who testified in this case, that may not quite be true. Did you form an opinion about whether the handler would have to pull the trigger of the gun to make the gun fire? My opinion is that the only reason this occurred is because of the breakage. So in order to move the trigger away from the hammer that's typically accomplished by pulling the trigger. So in this case, the only way that was possible is because the trigger actually fractured. Okay. So in order for you, just so that we're clear, in order for you to make the gun fire without pulling the trigger, when it was in the full cock position, you had to break it.

That's what I had to do in my lab. I can't account for all the other possibilities that may have existed. in, you know, some hypothetical scenario, but this is the result as I tested in my laboratory. It would not fire without pulling the trigger in the full cock setting without being broken. So, in other words, in order to get this gun to fire, either had to pull the trigger or physically break the gun. Now, Baldwin's claim that he didn't pull the trigger, that just becomes less and less likely. Which, by the way, seems to be the reason that he was charged. Remember, he was actually charged with involuntary manslaughter. Then the charges were dropped.

Then the charges were refiled when our understanding is new forensic and ballistics testing was done on the gun. Now, the gun was damaged by Mr. Ziegler when he tested it. And I'm sure the defense will highlight that and really focus on that, the damage to the central piece of evidence in this case. I'm sure that'll be picked apart by Baldwin's defense. I mean, he struck it with a mallet to see if it would go off. It was a way to see if the gun would go off while fully cocked without pulling the trigger. But again, this evidence is really bad for Mr. Baldwin because it makes it look like the only way that gun could have been fired was that he pulled the trigger. Now, in his defense, his attorney had released a statement saying, quote, Mr. Baldwin had no reason to believe there was a live bullet in the gun or anywhere on the movie set.

He relied on the professionals with whom he worked, who assured him the gun did not have live rounds. we will fight these charges and we will win. So I'm sure there will be an argument that he puts the blame on Hanna Gutierrez-Reed, who was just convicted. So as we talk about foreseeability and these accidents that should not happen, let me just highlight the sponsor of this episode of Sidebar, attorney, Tom, and associates. Why?

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dial 855 Tom wins. We also heard from Ross Adiego. This is the Dolly Grip on the Russ movie set. And he was there during that rehearsal when the shot went off killing Helena Hutchins. So first, you're going to see and hear this footage of Alec Baldwin rehearsing that scene inside the church where he does the cross draw of the gun. but listen very carefully, though, to what A. Diego says about it. Okay, ready? Okay, ready. Ready.

And set. Ready and action. Ah, Lundra. The blocking that you were describing as a person who was working in the room, were you expecting Mr. Baldwin to pull the gun all the way out, like what we just saw in those clips? In the blocking of the ECU?

What's the ECU? Extreme close-up. I was not. Okay. Go ahead. My understanding was it was just to kind of, to reveal that weapon coming out of the holster to the camera. That, arguably, could be called going off script, that Baldwin allegedly wasn't supposed to

be doing that in the rehearsal, that he was taking matters into his own hands, that he didn't even really need the gun or have to point it, and that would go to that lack of due care showing a disregard for the safety of others, and the issue of course is that that gun ultimately went off and someone was killed. But that idea of Baldwin going off script, we actually heard more about that from Brian Carpenter, a firearm safety expert called by the prosecution. So a clip was played of Baldwin firing a blank gun during a take for the movie. Watch what happens.

If I'm going to shoot, right, do you want to go on the other side of the camera? I don't want to shoot toward you. Okay, I want to shoot close to you. Here we go. Okay, here we go. All right. Go! Go!

an idea is it important when we hear when you're on a movie set and you hear the word cut is it important that the actors not continue to fire the guns yes and then when you say cut everything stops and it's not just from a creative standpoint it's also from a safety standpoint keep in mind you're dealing with stunts special effects explosives etc etc so in the word cut has said everything should cease immediately so in this instance where mr. Mr. Baldwin was firing the gun after the word cut. Is there anything that you would have done? I would file that under the category of going as the old saying goes off script.

He went off script there and fired for whatever reason that I guess he felt he needed to, but I would have probably said something to him about that as well. Afterwards. Afterwards. Okay. There's a theme here that Baldwin was bossing people around, that he was doing what he wanted, and he was acting recklessly. That that created an unsafe environment, and he should have known the danger that he was creating,

especially as an experienced actor on the film set who knows to stop firing when yelling cut. Maybe don't go off script with weapons, something to think about. That's going to be the argument put forward by the prosecution. But Mr. Carpenter continues. With regard to the next video, we play that we know now that there were live rounds on set. So, Mr. Ball will need to treat the real weapon as if he was. was loaded. That's correct. Okay. Now you, in the review of this case, you're not certain when those live rounds appeared on said. What day, is that right? No. Okay. Or how they

got it said? No. Okay. But in any event, Mr. Baldwin at that moment should have still treated that weapon as if it was loaded, going back to the other rules. Correct. Here we go. Let's try. Did you hear that? Did you? Tell us what's going on there. It sounded like Ms. Gutierre is attempting to correct the fact that she knew that Baldwin, Mr. Baldwin, was pointing that weapon in an unsafe manner, and she was attempting to move the crew out of the path of where he was pointing it, knowing that it was loaded with blanks.

Is there a problem with attempting to move the crew? That's one of the two things that should be occurring. You identified the problem that created the fact that the crew was in an unsafe position. in an unsafe position and then you clear out the crew and she was attempting to i would assume i'm not correct mr baldwin but try to make the crew in a more safe position okay and that idea is emphasized by another scene yeah when you drop your arm that means he's 10 feet away i can't see how close it but i want to be almost up by the time it gets it no i'm going to go into this yeah well let me show you something hold on step back to your original mark

So 1,000, 2, 1, 1,000, 3, I'm getting up. Then when he drops his arm, Helena, he drops his arm, that means Brady's close, I'm going to start to really get up. Okay. Do you see anything concerning here? He's doing what we saw previously in one of the other videos with the stunt performer. He's using the weapon as a pointing stick, it's his finger. And you've seen this video before? I have.

And what is your understanding about what that gun's loaded with? It's loaded with probably full flash blanks, but blanks. okay um what when mr baldwin behaves this way and is using the revolver as a as a pointer what is the responsibility on the part of miss gutierrez to intercede and correct any unsafe behavior now carpenter would go on to state that it was the responsibility of the armorer to step in here to correct this behavior that baldwin shouldn't be doing this but there was an argument put forward by the defense, and I do wonder if it will be co-opted by the prosecution in a way during Baldwin's trial, that it was very hard for anyone to tell Baldwin no, that it would be

hard for the armor to tell him to stop. Because listen to this exchange. One more, one more, one more. I forgot to re-pulled up. Right away, right away, let's reload. So Helena, hi. Here we go, come on. Well, I had to go closer to Danny did, so you want to go. We should have two guns and both were remoting. How many movie sets do you think you've worked on in your career? A hundred.

That conduct that we're seeing on the part of Mr. Baldwin, is that typical conduct from an action? conduct from an actor on a movie set? No. Why not? Well, number one, he's basically instructing the armor how to do their job at that point, telling them that we should have had the gun second reload, you know, hurry up, give it to me fast, fast, fast. This is that moment.

This is that moment I spoke about earlier. This is that moment that you need to stop and say, no, I'm not going to hurry up, I'm going to slow down. And we don't need to be, you know, passing off weapons this fast or loading guns this fast. guns this fast. This is creating an unsafe and nerve-wracking situation to lack to describe it in more layman's terms. Always own any kind of live training exercise, military training or whatnot. You don't want to put people in a nervous position that creates. Now you can stress a level of stress that's necessary

in realism training for military and law enforcement. This is not that. This should be separate and apart from that and even when that's being done under those circumstances is done in a control manner, but rushing with firearms and telling someone to rush with firearms is not normal nor accepted. Okay. So that's a problem. That's what could separate Baldwin from any other actor, that he was in a position of control, a position of authority, that it added to his duty and responsibility on that set,

negligently handling the weapon, showing a disregard for safety. And as you heard from Carpenter earlier, that it seemed that Gutierrez-Reed, the armor, was kind of afraid to tell Baldwin not to do this. Now, moving forward, here is Karen Kahn, a still photographer on the set, testifying a little bit more about that. When filming in New Mexico, did it appear to you that Alec Baldwin was the boss? Yes. Did you ever see anybody tell Alec Baldwin no?

No. And in terms of the structure, did it appear that other producers were below him? Yes. And we also heard from Ryan Winterstern, another producer for Rust, and he testified about Baldwin's role as well. Were you ever made aware of accidental discharges when making this movie? I was aware of one. I can remember. Did you, in fact, you said you were made aware of it.

you actually heard it go off, didn't you? That's how I was aware. I was aware because I heard it. Okay. And as a result of that accidental discharge on set that you actually heard, did you direct any safety meetings about that? No. Do you believe that's not your responsibility to direct safety meetings?

Or to tell your people that you need to do safety meetings? I heard this accidental discharge. My understanding is that the AD department is the safety officers. Okay, AD. Is that David Halls also? Dave Halls, it would be the AD, yes. Okay, but AD worked for production, right? Yes. And you're a producer, right?

Yes. And Alec Baldwin is a producer, right? Yes. In fact, Alec Baldwin was not only the producer, he was also the star of the film, wasn't he? Yes. Would you agree with me that he would have significant influence over things that happened on that film? I would say as an actor, yes. And as a producer, right?

Like I say, it depends on the context. That is important for the theme of foreseeability, that Baldwin knew about what was happening on this set with all the problems. And he should have known what was likely to happen, that he had this control. He had this authority. He should have known that something like this could happen to Helena Hutchins, that he could have prevented it from happening. We moved on to the subject of training.

Big issue, right? Baldwin should arguably have known what to do and not to do based on training. But what happens if he chose to either not go to training or not pay attention during the training? Well, here is what Hannah Gutierrez-Reed said in her police interview. So what do you teach actors or crew members when it comes to gun safety? So it really also depends on the actors too. You know, like big ones like Nick Cage, if they tell me, if, or if they tell the director, like, you know, that they don't really care to do it,

I can try to teach them for the most part, but like a lot of the times they might not even listen to me or really pay attention or be on their phone. Alec was on his phone a lot of that entire thing actors were distracted even too and I tried to do my best to work with all three of them so he allegedly wasn't paying attention

during the training that is bad as the producer and lead actor on the film he would have had a responsibility to take caution with these weapons and if he chose not to do so that could hurt him at trial and more so the question of his training or lack thereof

It came up when the defense questioned line producer Gabrielle Pickle. Do you know approximately how long that training was? No, I was only there for probably an hour. Okay. Did you see Mr. Baldwin there being trained? He was not at that training. No. He was not in the state at that point.

Okay. And, ma'am, do you know if he at one point was able to attend some type of training with Ms. Guterre's He did. Did you witness that training? I did not. Okay. So you don't have any personal knowledge of observing it, but you do know that it happened? I know that it was on the schedule.

That is the extent of my personal knowledge. We coordinated with multiple departments to make sure that could happen. Okay. Do you know whether Ms. Gutierrez-Reed had requested to do cross-draw training with Mr. Baldwin? I don't recall that at all. Okay. Do you know whether Mr. Baldwin ever had cross-trial training, that's it? I have no idea.

Okay. Okay, so not a clear answer on the training, lack of training. But I am going to end on this, on a different note. There was one other thing that I noticed during this trial that's perhaps going to be a problem for Alec Baldwin. And that is his credibility. I say that because we heard the testimony of Detective Alexandria Handker, from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office, the lead investigator. Listen very carefully to this idea of what Baldwin said and then said after.

Now, as part of your investigation, you concluded not only that Hannah was not in the church at the time, but that she had handed the weapon to Mr. Halls? Yes. And did you also conclude that Mr. Halls had handed that to Mr. Baldwin? Yes. However, there were opposing statements at the beginning of the investigation. Okay, there were conflicting statements at the beginning? Yes.

Did you determine that those were not correct, those conflicting statements? They were... I guess I'm going to object because I don't know specifically what statement he's referring to. Oh, sure. I'll ask you. Okay. I'll ask the witness. Yes, Your Honor. Corporal, what statements were conflicting with that idea? So on the day of the incident, I did interview Mr. Baldwin, and in his interview, he initially had stated that Hannah handed him the gun. However, later he changed that statement and said that Dave Halls had been the one that handed him the gun.

So it could be a problem in terms of whether we believe Baldwin, particularly if he decides. to take the stand at his trial where I will tell you he will have a lot of questions to answer for. That is all we have for you here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. As always, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. all episodes of this long crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.