Law&Crime Sidebar - Top 5 Most Memorable Witnesses to Testify at Trial

Episode Date: July 3, 2023

From fighting with attorneys — to bizarre facial expressions — and driving while testifying over Zoom — the trials Law&Crime Network streams show it all. Sidebar host Jesse Weber recaps some of the most memorable witnesses to take the stand in high-profile trials.LAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergWriting & Video Editing - Michael DeiningerGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa Bein & Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaDevil In The DormThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. I just so stressed out because of this. I just don't want to do with this anymore. I'm tired. From fighting with an attorney on the stand to lip smacking to potentially winning the case for the prosecution, we recap some of the most memorable witnesses from recent trials. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. We are at Sidebar and Law and Crime. We are privy to seeing a lot of people testify. And when I say a lot, I mean a lot. It's kind of hard to keep track of all of the witnesses in so many trials

that we've covered. But sometimes there are those witnesses, those people, those people, that just stand out and you will remember no matter what. So we thought, let's discuss the top five most memorable witnesses from the recent past, because in the last few years, we have seen and heard some pretty interesting folks. And I want to start with someone relatively recent, David Beckwith out of Tampa, Florida. So David Beckwith testified in the trial of Michael Keatley. Keatley was accused of shooting six men, killing two of them back on Thanksgiving 2010. The victims were brothers Juan and Sergio Gietroen.

And this story is a bit complicated, but here's what happened. Keatley was an ice cream truck driver, and one day he was robbed and shot. This shooting actually left him partially disabled. So the state said that Keatley was hell-bent on revenge. He wanted to find the people who did this to him. And in a case of mistaken identity, he actually targeted the wrong people and opened fire, killing these brothers. It is really, really sad, completely innocent people. They weren't connected to what happened to him in any way. So he was arrested and he was charged with two counts of

murder and four counts of attempted murder. He went to trial for a second time in March of 2023. His first trial three years earlier ended in a mistrial. And one of the people called to testify for the prosecution was David Beckwith. David Beckwith met Michael Keatley after he was robbed inside the ice cream truck and he partnered up with Keith. He helped him sell ice cream. He acted almost as his protector, even carrying a gun with him. And he testified that Keatley would constantly talk to him about wanting to find the people who robbed him, how he would question people on his ice cream route for more information. And this was really helpful testimony for the prosecution to show that Michael Keatley was out for revenge and was a

vigilante. But now, under cross-examination by defense attorney Richard Escobar, who many of you might remember represented Curtis Reeves in the self-defense movie theater shooting that we covered on law and crime. Escobar was trying to make the point that Keatley was physically impaired. He couldn't be the shooter, but also brought out these inconsistencies in Beckwith's testimony, really got under his skin. Well, Mr. Beckwith was getting quite irritated at Escobar's line of questioning, and he let it show, even becoming vocal at one point. You were aware of that when you went to work for him. He had just had another surgery on his hands. Your answer, yeah, he had a surgery, yeah.

I know he's had surgeries, but you're asking me specific surgeries. I don't know what the hell he's had. You would agree that the reason that you went to go work with him again was because he was physically pretty limited. Yeah, that's redundant. Let's go. You agree that he had limited motion in that hand. You're asking me to be a doctor, because I'm not a doctor. Well, weren't you able to see the fact that he had limited motion in his hand? You don't have to be a doctor for that, do you? I have limited motion in my shoulder, can you tell?

I mean, he didn't, I don't know how to explain it. Yeah, he was shot up, but it didn't stop him from being able to start a vehicle, get in a vehicle, or shoot a gun. Well, I don't know what else you're trying to ask of me. And by your own words, he was, I'm not going to use the ugly word, effed up. Those were your words. Sure. Michael Keatley, in your words, was effed up.

Right? Yeah, I'm effed up. Can you tell? You hadn't told him that you were a three-time convicted felon, right? Oh, he already knew that. Well, how did he know? You didn't tell him? Because, yes, I did.

Oh, yes, I did. He knew it before I ever got on that van, and I was a convicted felon. What date you told him? The day I started working with him. Oh, so, was that part of an application process? Okay, sure. You want to be a smart ass to me? I mean, I'll be a smart ass back.

Wait, I'm not going to allow that, all right? Just answer the question. Yeah, that was a fun back and forth. In fact, I should tell you that Escobar told the court after Beckwith was excused from the stand that Beckwith had made some sort of gesture to him as he left the courtroom. Escobar said he saw it as some kind of challenge maybe to do something outside. He told the court, I'm a big boy, I'm not worried about it, he just told the court about it nonetheless. Well, in the end, Michael Keatley was found guilty across the board and sentenced to life in prison.

Okay, now let's move on to two witnesses that really stood out in one trial. Johnny Depp versus Amber Heard. I'm going to be honest with you. This was a tough one. There were so many witnesses that left impressions during the course of this case. Really, what a trial it was. The Pirates of the Caribbean star sued his ex-wife for defamation for comments that she made in a Washington Post op-ed piece calling him an abuser.

She countersued him for comments that were made by his attorney on his behalf, calling her claims a hoax and that they were fabricated. It was a really nasty, nasty case. It saw both actors testifying against each other. We learned about all forms of domestic abuse from physical to mental. The couple's dirty laundry was shared for the world to see, and it brought Hollywood into the courtroom. I'm Alice Levine. And I'm Matt Ford.

And we're the hosts of Wondry's podcast, British Scandal. Pray, good fellow. Please join us in our latest, most gripping series. What on earth are you doing? Well, speaking in Tudor English, you know, because we're doing Amber Lynn. So I thought it would help people get in the mood and take them back to the course of King Henry VIII. Now, if I know British Scandal listeners, and I think I know British Scandal listeners, they will be reeled in with talk of treachery, sexual jealousy, backstabbing and treason.

There is a lot of that to be fair, but at its heart, isn't it just a traditional girl meets king, girl losers king kind of story? Yeah, with a divorce, a nation-altering religious reformation, and the show trial to begin all show trials. So listen to the story of Amblin now. Follow British Scandal wherever you listen to podcasts and binge entire season, early and ad-free on Wondry Plus. But I want to highlight two very notable witnesses that testified.

And no, I don't mean Johnny Depp or Amber Herb. First, Alejandro Romero. Alejandro Romero worked at the front desk of the Eastern Columbia building in Los Angeles where Depp and Hurd lived together for several years. And his pre-recorded deposition testimony was played for the jury. asked questions about anything that he observed, including potential injuries on Hurd's face. Well, the only issue is the substance of Romero's testimony may have been drowned out by what jurors saw. You see, Romero was answering questions while driving his car and vaping.

May 24th? Yes. Yep. Now, it's Tuesday. But in fact, you don't recall seeing Amber Hurd on May 24th. correct i don't remember i don't even remember what i got from brinkford so the incident was may 21st 2016 you saw her the night of may 25th correct well she was that never heard treat you well and was she friendly to you in each of these hundreds of times yes yes i I'm not going to say no because she was really always nice. All right. Be nice.

All right. This is my last question. You testified in response to Mr. Procedo's questions that you testified truthfully in all of these occasions. Did you testify truthfully to everything that you testified in response to my questions today? That's correct. I did. But you weren't looking for bruises cut swelling redmond. or any other injuries on Ms. Hurd's face that night? Were you?

I was not looking for any marks or bruises or anything, but something like that will be really noticeable, but I guess, you know, I wasn't looking. I was more focusing in what my job student was, like getting the key, and also this, I gave him the key, and there were talking about i told her you know what your dog i was talking with raquel because her dog got out on her unit and that was one one of my crescents that was told you know what i saw your dog was outside he didn't want me to get get too close to it so it's still out there you know on the pet house area their dog will be fine because it's not like i said it's always really quiet and mr death owned everything up there so it'll be fine so that's

That was one of my concerns. That was my job and was just taking care of that. I was not trying to say, oh, let me see your face. No, they come down, they say, somebody tried to get into my unit, there's scratches on my door, say, and like, oh, I'm really sorry, but who will think is going to get into your unit

because they saw some crashes on the door, like what, four inches above the door because the dog was crashing the door was trying to get in and they thought about someone's trying to break into the unit i said on my head i was like you're really you think someone's trying to get into your unit there's crashes like four inches above your floor and your door that was the dog trying to get into the unit i always make eye contact with someone i'm talking to but i'm not looking to find something like like oh you're making kept strong, you have changed your eyebrows, or your eyelashes are not even, or I'm not looking

for anything. I'm just looking at their eyes. And I'm not looking for anything else. I just so stressed out because of this. I just don't want to deal with this anymore. I'm tired. I don't want to deal with this court case. Everybody got problems. And I don't want to doing it's no more. I don't want to put this in any of more words. Yeah, some of those moments went very viral on social media and YouTube. I've got to say, I don't think I've ever seen someone vape and drive while answering questions under oath, but hey, there's a first time for everything. But now, I want to talk about another memorable witness. Psychiatrist, Dr. David Spiegel. He testified on behalf of Amber

Heard, and he said that Johnny Depp's behavior was consistent with a substance abuser, and someone who perpetrates intimate partner violence. Now, I'm not one to judge, okay? But Dr. Spiegel's way of speaking, his mannerisms, his demeanor, it became a thing of online chatter. Now, sadly, after the trial, and we know Johnny Depp won this case, he won all of his claims. Amber heard won on a counterclaim, too, but this really was Johnny Depp's victory. Well, after the trial, Dr. Spiegel said that he received intense backlash from Johnny Depp supporters, And he told Newsweek, quote,

Never in my life have I been the target of such voluminous amounts of hate ever. So clearly, people had strong feelings about him. Let's play some of his testimony and you'll see just how unique of a witness Dr. Spiegel was. You talked about the fact that Mr. Depp indicates that from time to time he uses an earpiece. I was, yeah, I mean, I read that, yes. Okay. Did you read the testimony of Mr. Wyatt, who told you what was being pumped into that earpiece? Yeah. I mean, if I remember, right. I mean, it was, I think it was lines, right? No, it was music.

It was music, not his line? Yeah. Okay. So if Mr. Depp was listening to music rather than being fed his lines, does that change your opinion as to his cognitive function? If he was never fed his lines through the earpiece, which I know he was, but read he was, and that may have been that example, Mr. Wyatt may have said, that it was music. I guess the question is, were you having the music during the actual talking of your lines? Is that what you're saying to me? But Mr. Depp is pretty good at acting.

You acknowledge that early on. Absolutely. Well, better than me, so I know that. Because you don't act. In fact, you don't know about it. acting. You're right. I have no idea about acting. And you don't know how prevalent the use of ear pieces are in acting. Again, I know nothing about acting. I think in the basis of what I've read about it, I'm comfortable that I don't believe that actors are routinely given

their entire script through ear pieces. I find that hard to believe. But not one wit of evidence that this ever happened here. I guess what I said I just said I find it hard to believe I didn't say it I said I find it hard to believe you know whether Marlon Brando used in your piece whether isn't he dead yeah so the answer is no he does not use one now oh no I use the past tense oh I'm sorry I again I know nothing I will concede to you I know nothing about acting I will concede you 100% if that is the standard and people are done that's acting then I apologize and that was wrong on my part if that

That's the standard. I'm wrong. I don't know. Any of Mr. Depp's other portrayals in movies, did that affect your analysis of processing speed? Only I've seen him interact on interviews, and that was it, when he wasn't in movies. Right. But Willie Wonka doesn't matter to you. You see him in that movie, Charlie and Chocolate Factory? Did you look at that one when you were comparing his processing speed? Is, is, is that, I'm going to answer that question. You have to answer your question. Yes, sir.

No, you'll be happy. No, I didn't see Willie Walker as there, and I didn't see 21 Jump Street when it happened or whatever was, but no, I did not. Yeah, he was definitely one of the more interesting witnesses that we've seen here at Long Crime. For our listeners, you don't see this, but one of the reasons Dr. Spiegel went and viral is this strange, lip-smacking, licking thing he did with his mouth. We played it in one of those clips, and many saw that as quite bizarre. Again, I'm not one to judge. I don't want to judge, but whatever you want to call it, he was unique.

He had quite the personality, and he certainly was a memorable witness. Now, let's take a step back. We've been having some fun going over some of the more amusing witnesses that have taken the stand in our recent trials, but let's be very clear. trials aren't supposed to be funny. We're dealing with very serious subject matter. And not all witnesses stand out in our minds because they make us laugh. Some stand out because how powerful their testimony was. And that brings us to our next witness, Dr. Martin Tobin. Dr. Tobin is a pulmonologist, which means he's a physician who specializes in the respiratory system. Dr. Tobin was

called to the stand by the prosecution in the Minnesota trial of Derek Chauvin. This was the former police officer who infamously kneeled on George Floyd for over nine minutes until the point where George Floyd died. Chauvin was charged with second degree unintentional murder, third degree murder, and second degree manslaughter. And the biggest question, biggest legal question, was did Chauvin cause Floyd's death? So Dr. Tobin comes up, and this is an expert who actually chose not to be paid for his services. Think about how rare that is. When experts are called to the stand, that's the first question they're asked. How much are you being paid to test? It's a question that goes to their credibility. Are they just a gun for hire, right? So here's

someone who chose not to be paid but agreed to provide his expertise to the case. Okay, that's the backdrop. Now listen to how clearly, carefully, and in such an articulate way, he explains his conclusion, a conclusion that arguably may have won the case for the prosecution. Have you formed an opinion to a reasonable degree of medical certainty on the cause of Mr. Floyd's death? Yes, I have. Would you please tell the jury what that opinion or opinions are? Yes, Mr. Floyd died from a low level of oxygen,

and this caused damage to his brain that we see, and it also caused a P-E-A arrhythmia that caused his heart to stop. Tees against a hard asphalt street. So the way they're pushing down on his hands, handcuffs combined with the street, his left side, and it's particularly the left side, we see that. It's like the left side is in a vice. It's totally being pushed in, squeezed in from each side, from the street at the bottom, and then from the way that the handcuffs are manipulated.

It's not just the handcuffs. It's how the handcuffs are being held, how they're being pushed, where they're being pushed, that totally interfere with central features of how we breathe. So Mr. Floyd then is pancake between the pavement underneath them and then force on top of... Precisely. There's just no way he's going to be able to expand that. But with the left image, you see the finger on the street. Then over on the right image, you see his knuckle against... the tire and to most people this doesn't look

terribly significant but to a physiologist this is extraordinarily significant because this tells you that he has used up his resources and he is now literally trying to breathe with his fingers and knuckles. Explain why the knee on the neck is so significant the knee on the neck is extremely important because it's going to you include the air getting in through the passageway. You need to examine your own necks. At the top of your Adam Zappa, you're now directly over the hypofarinx.

And the hypofarinx is the crucial area in Mr. Floyd. So this here is where the hypofarinx is located on your surface anatomy. hypoferrics important for understanding this case what happened? The hypoferrinx is very important for understanding this case for a number of reasons because it's so vulnerable, because it has no cartilage around it. It's going to be an area that is compressed. It's extremely small. In the case of Mr. Floyd, the narrowing was of his hypoferrinx?

It was in the hypoferrinx, yes. Did the Mr. Chauvin's knee on the neck then caused a narrowing of the hypofarin? Yes, indeed. So if you might recall Mr. Floyd's last words, you know, I can't breathe. Right. Are those words significant to you as a pulmonologist? Yes, I mean, obviously they're important different ways. One, he's complaining to you of difficulty with breathing,

but they're also telling me that at that time when he's saying, please, I can't breathe. we know at that point he has oxygen in his brain. And again, it's a perfect example of how it gives you a huge false sense of security because very shortly after that, we're going to see that he has a major loss of oxygen in the way that he moves his leg.

And so it tells you how dangerous is the concept of if you can breathe or if you can speak, you can breathe. Yes, that is true. on the surface, but highly misleading, a very dangerous mantra. We know Derek Chauvin was convicted. The jury believed he was responsible and that he was the cause for killing George Floyd. And you can disagree with me, but I have to believe this testimony from Dr. Martin Tobin certainly helped the prosecution in a major way.

I remember watching him testify and just thought, wow, the way he described. everything the way he broke it down, just a stellar, stellar expert witness that you would want in your camp. Okay. Now we're going to move on to our final memorable witness, and that is Dominique Jones. She testified on behalf of the prosecution in the murder case against former NFL player Travis Rudolph. Rudolph was charged with one count of first degree murder and three counts of attempted first degree murder after firing 39 shots at a vehicle that was carrying four men who had just gotten into a physical altercation with him outside of his Florida home. Rudolph says he was defending himself. Now, Dominique Jones comes into this because

she was Rudolph's current girlfriend at the time. You see, Jones wasn't living in the Miami area where Rudolph was residing. And she decided to visit. She went through his phone and saw some things that she didn't like. Yeah, Travis was seeing another woman. Once she saw these flirty text, the two began fighting, apparently getting physical, and the state painted the pitcher that she was upset and her brother and his friends came to fight off Travis and his brother Darrell. But on cross-examination, the defense dug into some texts of her own. And you testified that he was disrespectful yesterday. That's the moral of his story. Is that correct? Correct. Isn't the moral of story is that you sent your brother and his friends to go kill

No, the moral of the story is him putting his hands on me. That is really the basis of everything and I didn't send my brothers to kill him. You just sent a text to go shoot up his shit, right? I didn't say shoot him. You sent a text to go shoot up his shit, right? Correct. Tell the jury what the shit is. When you're angry, you say things. I'm sure everyone in this courtroom has said something when you're, I'm trying to speak. If you want me to answer your question, you have to let me answer your question. to my question I wouldn't have all right answer the question please okay can you repeat your question question was what does shit mean in the context of that text

anything but him you told the jury then he said get the F out of my house that's what you told the jury okay he might have said that that's yeah he said that you out he wasn't blocking you he wanted you out of the house he wanted me to get out after he told me to go on the house to get my thing so I went into the house to grab my personal items that I brought over there right he didn't want you there anymore he wanted you out of his house that's what you told the jury yesterday okay he wasn't keeping you confined in there was he was he wasn't falsely imprisoning you yet on the sixth was he was keeping me confined in the room that's why I picked up the trophy and that's why he told you to get the F out of the house that's you're not in

chronological order so you're seeing it at some point he told you to get the F out of his house, did he not? After he held me in the room and was not allowing me to leave. He wanted absolutely nothing to do with you. Isn't that the fact? I want

absolutely nothing to do with him. And isn't true, you told this jury yesterday that Travis said I don't like you anymore. Remember that? You remember telling this to the jury yesterday? He was saying, I don't necessarily remember him saying those exact words, but he was saying a lot of things like like I said a why did you tell the jury yesterday he said I don't like you

anymore he probably did say that he was saying a lot of hurtful things on direct examination today with miss Edwards you said you were asked some questions about web searches and you said you did some of these searching in case if I need to turn myself in Do you remember that? Yes, I do remember saying that. What did you mean by that? I was unaware, unknowledgeable about this entire situation, so I did some research.

That's the bottom line of it. Can we please move on from this question? Because you believed you had some culpability that you had... If I believe I had some culpability, I would have came in with a lawyer, a paid one, not a pro bono one, and I would have made sure that I would have never spoke to any law enforcement if I thought anything was going to happen to me.

Did I do that? No. I completely, from day one, agreed, turned my phone in. Anything that was asked of me, I did. So no, you have it incorrect. And that's the last time I'm speaking on that. So you turned your phone in over a week later after you deleted items from it. No, when they told me to turn my phone and my phone was turned in. And items were deleted from it, right? And they retrieved them is what I heard. And you were concerned still, though. Who wouldn't be concerned? This is not a normal situation.

Of course I'm going to be concerned. That's why you said I needed to do this research to see if I had to turn myself in. I research everything. I research what, any little thing, I research. I'm a knowledgeable child. I'm sorry if you felt like this was inappropriate to research. Full responsibility, full accountability. She admits to sending the text telling her brother,

friends to go shoot up Travis Rudolph, but it seems like she didn't like being called out or challenged by the defense on her culpability. In my opinion, her testimony may have ruined the prosecution's case. The defense team basically set the backdrop that Dominique Jones started the whole situation and that Travis Rudolph took the stand. We know he did this. He explained how he defended himself, and in the end, he ended up getting acquitted on all charges. So, some very memorable witnesses. Oh, and I'm sure there are many more to come. That's all we have for you here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time.

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