Law&Crime Sidebar - Top 5 Times Jeffrey Dahmer Evaded Law Enforcement

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

The Law&Crime Network's Jesse Weber breaks down the top five times Jeffrey Dahmer evaded law enforcement with John Borowski, author of "Dahmer's Confession."PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Claim your SPECIAL OFFER for MagellanTV here: https://try.magellantv.com/lawandcrime/. Start your free trial TODAY so you can watch "Revealed Jack the Ripper: Tabloid Killer" and thousands of MagellanTV’s other exclusive true crime content: https://bit.ly/3rp67kLGUEST:John Borowski: https://www.instagram.com/johnborowsk...Read Dahmer's Confession: https://amzn.to/3RFW59CLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Michael Deininger & Logan HarrisGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Okay, listen to your heartbeat. What? With Jeffrey Dahmer back in the public conversation, the question becomes, why wasn't he caught sooner? filmmaker and author John Borowski comes on to go through the top five times when Dahmer evaded capture. You've heard, Trace.

What are you doing? Well, we wanted to continue our conversation on Jeffrey Dahmer. This is the notorious serial killer who murdered and mutilated the bodies of 17 people, a crime spree that dated from the late 70s to the early 1990s. Now, Dahmer's back in the news, of course. because of this Netflix show Monster, the Jeffrey Dahmer story. And as we've reported here on Sidebar, this miniseries has received a ton of backlash from victims family members, the LGBTQ community, a key prosecutor, everything from not being

consulted as a part of the show, to false narratives that are being portrayed on the show, to even the claim of this show is glorifying Jeffrey Dahmer. So there's a lot of controversy surrounding it. But I will tell you, what are the most shocking aspects of the show and also Jeffrey Dahmer in real life, is how many times he almost got caught, but for multiple reasons, he wasn't. And I think that's one of the biggest tragedies of this whole situation, how he could have been stopped earlier, but something happened. So we thought, let's get into that because it really is a fascinating and disturbing aspect of the serial killers timeline. It feels like there's a

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thousands of other amazing documentaries. That's try dot Magellan TV.com slash law and crime. And I'm joined right now by an expert in this field, award winning filmmaker and author John Barowski, who actually wrote the book, Dommer's Confession, the Milwaukee Cannibal's Arrest Statements. John, great to have you here on Sidebar. Thanks for taking the time. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it and love your show and love the truth that you put out there because again, this is all about the truth of these cases, at least how much we could research and find out about them. We all appreciate you saying that because that's what we are trying to do is, you know, as much as the sensationalism of the show, we're trying to understand exactly what really happened. And so let's go through the top five times that Dahmer was almost caught that he evaded capture. And I'll start with one that was portrayed in the show. This is when police pulled Jeffrey Dahmer over for drunk driving. And he actually. has the dead dismembered body of, I believe, his first victim, Stephen Hicks in the back seat. Talk to me, did this really happen? And how was he not caught? It did really happen. And that's the

sad thing about, especially a lot of these earlier serial killer cases, that they do get away with it for so long. And that's why I think people are fascinated by the predatory aspect of, you know, these human monsters in that respect. But yeah, Dahmer, like he did with all of his victims, he murdered Stephen Hicks, and then he dismembered the body. So he takes the body. So he takes the body parts and he puts them into plastic garbage bags. And then he gets in the car within, he wants to take the plastic bags to the local city garbage dump to dump them. So, you know, they wouldn't be found in the garbage cans outside because he just pretty much the first victim, he just dismembered him. He didn't take the flesh off the skin or anything like that. So on his

way to the garbage dump, he's driving a little erratically and the police do pull him over for suspected drunk driving. Well, they talked to Dahmer and of course this was his first time dealing with the police and having a body, basically in the back seat. So he tells them, look, my parents are going through a bad divorce, and I'm tired, and that's why I was driving erratically. And this is the thing, the officers, as much as many people met Dahmer throughout his murdering career, they said, he just seems so normal. And, you know, they shine the light in the car.

They see these garbage bags in the back seat, but they don't think much of it at the time. They give him a ticket and send him on his way. And that was the first incident. And Dahmer learned from that. What did he learn? wow, I could get away with murder. And these serial killers with each murder, they refine their techniques. You're right. He did. And I think he became very believable, right?

So we move to that, which again, I think is one of the most disturbing ones to this is really, really next level. It concerns two brothers. And I'll just say right now, I'm doing my best to pronounce their names correctly. Somsac and Conorak synthesophon. This is really next level. So first, let's, let's, talk about Sumsack, who my understanding is Dahmer was arrested for sexually assaulting this boy when he was 13 years old. And he basically served no time. And my understanding is this is after he's already killed someone. Yes, it's a sad story. You know, Sam Sack obviously was awful. And cruising, you know, Dahmer would go cruising and victim solicitation is very important. He met him at the local mall. He would go to malls, the Greyhound Station, gay bars. He would go to Chicago.

stay in Milwaukee to look for these victims. And of course, his victims were, you know, anything from early teens to early 20s. And he picked Sam Sack up, brings them back to his place. It's usually with the allure of I'm going to take pictures of you and I'm going to give you some money. And he would take Polaroids of his victims before, kind of during and after their murders. And he drugged Sam Sack and assaulted him. And then eventually, you know, he's caught for that and he is arrested. and he serves only a week in jail, and he's given a one-year probation on a work probation where he could still work.

So that was- Just interrupt. How is it possible he only served one week? And how is it possible that Somsac was a lot? Like, he survived this. Yeah. You know, and that's the thing about serial killers. Sometimes they do let their victims go for numerous reasons. Maybe there was a witness.

Maybe there's another reason why he's afraid of, you know, murdering this victim. But, you know, and that's sometimes the problem with the legal system. of course. We know that. And many times criminals have more rights than just the ordinary citizen or non-criminals. And that's been a big part of these cases, especially Gacy and Dahmer, when they have these victims and then they are apprehended, they seem to wiggle out of the system. And again, they base it on past arrests. Well, he didn't really have that much of a record before. And he seems like a nice guy. He seems like he's got his stuff together. He's so quiet and soft-spoken. And that's the allure of the serial killer. That's why they could be our

fathers, neighbors, bosses, husbands, and people don't want to realize that fact, but they can be. And that's the frightening aspect about it. That's the chilling aspect of that. And you know, look, one of the common criticisms of all this of the police department is because this dealt with same-sex issues and it dealt with gay men that perhaps they didn't show the kind of attention to the investigation. And that brings me now to some sex brother Conorak, which this is just the worst thing. This happened again, I think three years later, when this boy was 14 years old, he was able to escape Dahmer, but police actually brought him back to Dahmer's apartment and then Dahmer killed him. Is this true? It is true. You know, Conorac's death has to be, to me, at least,

the saddest victim story of all the serial killer stories. I mean, not that any others are important, but his is sad because the police basically fed him to Dahmer on a silver plate. He said, flatter literally when you think about it. So Dahmer had Conorak in his apartment, lured him there with taking pictures, giving him money, gave him sleeping pills like he would give all his victims. And then once he passed out, Dahmer drilled holes in his head and poured acid into those holes because he wanted to experiment to make a real life zombie in a sense. So Dahmer goes out for beer and on his way back, he sees Conorak outside with a couple neighbors and the police officers. So So Dahmer tells the police, look, and Conorak was naked and obviously distraught.

Dahmer tells the officers, well, look, you know, we just had a, you know, argument and this is a lover spat. And that's how a lot of these serial killers get away with that, too. Gacy did the same thing saying, well, this was consensual. And it was S&M that got a little out of hand. And, you know, of course, gay at the time, whether it's 70s, 80s or even early 90s, officers, you know, or anybody, you know, may take a different view on it and say, okay, you know, this is the fact. So then what they did was they actually escorted Conorak and Dahmer back to Dahmer's apartment. And they left Dahmer murders Conorak. Now, if the police would have went in the other room, there was a body in there.

Dahmer's last victim was in the other room, plus a vat of acid, skulls, a torso. So, you know, again, I mean, yes, in many of these cases, the police are cited as not doing their job. But, you know, there's two sides to every story as well. Now, you look at the cases and the evidence, well, you know, walking in that apartment, there may not have been evidence. Of course, there was a smell and maybe they wanted to get out of there quickly because of the stench. I'm sure it smelled worse than dead rats, you know. But, you know, you have these issues where there's no evidence. Again, the guy seems like a nice guy.

But then also, white privilege may have played a factor in race because Dahmer lived in a building that was predominantly black. So he was one or maybe the only white person living in that building. So you look at these aspects too, of course, which has. But with Gacy, you know, these are white guys who seem okay. They're well-dressed. They've got their stuff together. They're working, blah, blah, blah. And at that time period, you didn't have the DNA profiling.

And there were no victims. These victims, they weren't searching for them. And they're classified just as missing persons. And that happens a lot. That leads me into number four, the number four top moment when he evaded capture. And this is kind of well encompassing because central figure in the show is Glenda Cleveland, played by Nisi Nash. This is somebody who, my understanding is she didn't actually live next door to Dahmer.

She lived in an adjacent building to Dahmer, but she talked about the stench, the weird noises, the fighting. And her claims were just ignored. I mean, that's what's shown in the Netflix show. How accurate is that? Because if you were to just take her word for it and follow up, it seems like he could have been caught sooner. That's true. I mean, you know, Cleveland was an amalgamation on the show of Cleveland and Pamela Bass, who she was the actual next door neighbor. And a lot of times in TV shows, they'll do that.

they may bring certain characters together as one character or change some things around, but they're still telling the truth of the case in that sense. And, you know, yes, there were complaints about the smells, the noises. And supposedly, police were even called, but they went to the wrong address. So they never even showed up there to investigate these smells and these noises, probably a power saws, maybe people screaming. But then again, let's look at that building. You know, again, police might have been called there many times for infractions in this

building, trouble in the building. And unless maybe it was to them a certain priority deemed a priority, they may not have even gone. And that's also an issue we see with law enforcement as well. But yeah, you know, that was another set. And again, Dahmer would use excuses because as he got better at his, you know, murdering, he also got better at his con game, which serial killers have to be great conmen. He would use excuses. Well, there's meat in my freezer that's expired.

He would show the superintendent, look at the meat in my freezer. And I'm sure he planted there a purpose in case. this happened or he would say, well, my fish tank was dirty and that's smelling up the whole place. I had to clean it out. So, you know, he knew what to say to get away with these, you know, murders. It's sad. And that leads me to the last one and we probably could have had more to go through, but this one really struck me. This is Ronald Flowers. So this is a guy who was apparently drugged by Dahmer with coffee, brought back to Dahmer's grandmother's house. My understanding is he's able to leave there, maybe because the grandmother was present. And he reports this to police,

but again, nothing happens. What can you tell us about this? Yeah, Flowers was another victim that Dahmer picked up, you know, at a gay bar, and, you know, he would hunt gay bars, the Great Hound Station Malls, other places. So it brings them back to the grandmother's house. And like all of his victims, he learned that putting sleeping pills and coffee was the best way to do it. Dommer had some people stay with him for a week or more when victims stayed with him for two weeks. But the minute the guy said, I have to go, here I'm going to make you a coffee drink.

And then that was it for him. So Flowers gets to Dahmer's place. he gets drugged by Dahmer and then he wakes up in the morning he's dazed he's assaulted there are bruises on his body he's robbed Dahmer puts him on a bus and in Flowers leaves well Flowers goes to the police and says you know look this guy robbed me he assaulted me look at my bruises and the police contact Dahmer they do you know arrest him and uh the case is dismissed unfortunately but you know again this plays into that whole the the who the victim is how gays may have been seen at that time period yes that's true but again this lack of evidence and

it is what it is in that sense and it goes back to domer probably saying the killers usually say well this was just consensual you know he wanted me to hit him a little and eh you know it was an s and m thing and at that time the police would say okay you know what this is a gay thing let them you know let them be it's just an amalgamation of different factors that as i said is a tragedy because if he was caught sooner he had such a long time spree perhaps lives could have been saved. John Borowski, thank you so much for coming on, taking the time. And I encourage everybody to pick up your book to learn a little bit more about Jeffrey Dahmer. Thanks so much. And thanks, everybody, for joining us here on Sidebar. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube,

wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. We'll speak to you next time. episodes of this long crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.