Law&Crime Sidebar - Top Moments From Depp v. Heard Closing Arguments

Episode Date: May 30, 2022

Jesse Weber breaks down Day 24 of the Johnny Depp v. Amber Heard defamation trial. Each side battles it out with closing arguments to the jury. Camille Vasquez tears into Heard's credibility. Ben Chew describes what Heard has done to Depp in the eyes of his fans. J. Benjamin Rottenborn explains what this case means for all domestic abuse survivors. Elaine Bredehoft tells the jury why they should find Depp liable on Heard's counterclaims.SUPPORT THE SHOW:Get Surfshark VPN at https://surfshark.deals/LAW83 - enter promo code LAW83 for 83% off and 3 extra months for free!READ FULL TRIAL RECAPS:lawandcrime.comAPPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/canadian-true-crime/id1197095887SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/5YNYcVmxKGsd8Q73mssWT9SUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. views shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Before Amber Heard, ladies and gentlemen, no woman ever, no woman ever before Amber Hurd ever claimed that Mr. Depp raised a hand to her in his 58 years and no other woman since Ms. Hurd made that false claim back on May 17th, 2016 and repeated it in her December 2018 op-ed has any woman come forward since. This is me too without any me too. So we're fighting back and that's the counterpoint. She finally has said enough, enough. And we're asking you to finally hold this man responsible.

Attorneys for Johnny Depp and Amber heard battling it out, delivering their final words to the jury before deliberations in the trial that has absolutely captured the nation's attention. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime, where we recap the biggest moments in the day's biggest cases. I'm Jesse Weber. We're talking the ongoing trial of Johnny Depp versus Amber Hurd out in Fairfax County, Virginia, where he's just wrapped up day 24. Depp is suing his ex-wife for $50 million, claiming defamation, namely that she falsely accused him of domestic violence in a 2018 Washington Post op-ed piece, and that that article ruined his life and his career.

Heard is countersuing debt for $100 million, well, maybe $100 million, I'll get to that, saying that he, through his attorney, Adam Waldman, orchestrated a public smear campaign in the media calling her accusations a hoax. Well, we've come to the end, folks. Closing arguments. This is the time that each side has to wrap up their cases. summarize the main points and leave a lasting impression in the minds of the jury. Now, each side had two hours to deliver their closings.

That in and of itself was pretty interesting to watch because before the lunch break, Depp's side had about 39 minutes for a rebuttal closing. And get this, Heard side only had six minutes left. Six minutes for a rebuttal. Now, before we get to the closings, real quick, here is what each side needs to prove. Okay, so for Depp, he's claiming that three statements in the 2018 Washington Post article were defamatory. And here are the statements.

One, the headline, I spoke up against sexual violence and faced our culture's wrath. That has to change. Number two, then two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic abuse, and I felt the full force of our culture's wrath for women who speak out. And number three, I had the rare vantage point of seeing in real time how institutions protect men. accused of abuse. Now, Depp would have to show that by implication these statements were about him, that these statements were published, that they were false, and that they were made with actual malice. Very important legal term here, meaning that Heard knew these statements

were untrue or she made them with a reckless disregard for the truth. And then there are Heard's counterclaims. So she's attempting to prove that Depp's attorney, Adam Walman, was acting as an agent for Johnny Depp when he made these alleged defamatory statements to the Daily Mail publication. Number one, Amber heard and her friends in the media used fake sexual violence allegations as both a sword and shield depending on their needs. They have selected some of her sexual violence hoax facts as a sword, inflicting them upon the public and Mr. Depp. Number two, quite simply, this was an ambush, a hoax. They set Mr. Depp up by calling cops, but the first attempt didn't do the trick. The officers came to the penthouses, thoroughly searched and interviewed and

left after seeing no damage to face her property. So Amber and her friends spilled a little wine and roughed the place up, got their stories straight on the direction of a lawyer and publicist, and then placed a second call to 911. And the final one, we have reached the beginning of the end of Ms. Heard's abuse hoax against Johnny Depp. Same elements of defamation like we talked about before. So now that we have the groundwork, let's dig into the closings. First up, Johnny Depp's side. The first part of their closings were divided between Camille Vasquez and Ben Shue. They focused upon the fact that why would Depp go through this whole trial expose all of these details to the world if he wasn't really telling the truth

and trying to set the record straight. During the closings, they kept playing the audio tapes of Amber Hurd berating Johnny Depp, mocking him, admitting to hitting him. This all casting him as the victim in this story, not the abuser. And they also did this by honing in on the injuries that Depp allegedly sustained that the hands of Hurd, including, of course, the infamous 2015 Australia incident where they claim Amber Hurd threw a vodka bottle at Johnny Depp, smashing and slicing his finger open. It was interesting when Vasquez said May 27th, 2016, exactly six years to the day, is when they claim Herd went

to the court to get a TRO against Depp based on false abuse allegations. The idea being that that is when it started, and with this trial, this is where it ends. Hurd's team also, highlighted herd's alleged lies. They focused a lot on her pledging or promising to donate the full seven million dollars of the divorce settlement to charities, but in the end, she didn't really do that. Again, the concept here is if she lies about that, what else does she lie about? Yet there was one moment that really stood out about Camille Vasquez's closing. The mountain of evidence that Mr. Depp abused, Ms. Heard is simply not there. What we have is a mountain of unproven allegations

that are wild, over the top, and implausible. And you can't pick and choose which of these wild allegations to believe and which ones to disregard. You either believe all of it or none of it. Either Mr. Depp sexually assaulted, Misheard with a bottle in Australia, or misheard got up on that stand in front of all of you

and made up that horrific tale of abuse. Either she's a victim of truly horrific abuse, or she is a woman who is willing to say absolutely anything. It is disturbing to think that Ms. Hurd would make up the horrific tales of abuse that she testified to in this courtroom. But this case doesn't come down to whether you believe Ms. Hurd or you believe Mr. Depp. This case comes down to whether you believe misheard,

Or you believe Mr. Depp, Christy Dombrowski, Sean Bett, Malcolm Connolly, Travis McGivorne, Starling Jenkins, Keenan Wyatt, Dr. Kipper, nurses Debbie Lloyd and Aaron Falati, Tara Roberts, Ben King, Kate James, Kate Moss, Dr. Colber, Morgan Knight, Morgan Tremaine, Officers Melissa Sun. lines, officers Tyler Haddon, Officer William Gatlin, and Beverly Leonard. What Ms. Hurd testified to in this courtroom is the story of far too many women. But the overwhelming evidence and weight of that evidence shows that it's not her story. It's not Ms. Hurd's story. Quite powerful there. If you believe Amber Hurd, then you have to say everyone else who took the stand during Johnny Depp's case was lying that they're all committing perjury to seemingly protect themselves for Johnny Depp. I mean, does that make sense? Is that too much to believe for the jury? Depp's team also

moved on to the issue of damages. And when talking about damages, you need to show the harm. What did you lose? How did the Washington Post article ruin your career and reputation? You need to create that causal effect, that connection. So let's hear how Ben Shue describes what Depp suffered. Mr. Depp has millions of fans, people who grew up watching him on 21 Jump Street, which is something you heard mock on one of the tapes that was played to you. Or they grew up watching him play the swashbuckling pirate Captain Jack Sparrow and the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, or Willie Walker. Mr. Depp means something to those people, and those people mean a lot to Mr. Depp.

He's a fond memory from childhood or adolescence or adulthood. And to tarnish him as an abuser is to destroy him in the eyes of many of these people who will never look at him the same way again. And because of what Ms. Hurd did, and because of what she said, Mr. Depp will go to his grave knowing no matter what he does, no matter the outcome of this trial, there are people who used to look up to him who now believe that he beat a woman, which is the worst thing you can say about a man.

Really emphasizing how he lost his reputation, his career, his livelihood. By the way, that's the reason that we see such an outpouring of support for depth with people cheering for him on the outside of court, dressing up, bringing alpacas. I mean, he has a fan base unlike anything I have ever seen. And when we talk about damages, there are compensatory and punitive damages as options for the jury, a form of compensating for pain and loss, but also punishing the other party. By the way, little side note on damages, Elaine Bredehoff in her closing, she represents Amber Herb. She said, yeah, we sued for $100 million, but look, we aren't really asking for that.

We're asking for what's reasonable. Got to tell you, was a little surprised by that. I get the idea of it. The idea is we're not really out for the money. Amber Hurd in this trial was accused of being all out for the money. We're doing this for altruistic reasons. We're doing this for the right cause. Makes sense.

Good argument. But why even put in the mind of the jury that you're not asking for $100 million? Why even take that away? Not sure that was the best. Anyway, moving on to Amber Hurd's closing arguments. Her team focused on how insane and worthless it would be for Amber Hurd to make up her injuries and falsely accused someone of abuse. They really hammered away

if the jury finds just one instance of abuse, whether physical, psychological, mental, emotional, verbal, sexual, Johnny Depp would lose. They discussed the First Amendment, the right to publish an article like Amber Heard so she can freely speak about this subject that she wasn't necessarily talking about her relationship with Johnny Depp per se,

but more about the issue of domestic abuse and being a survivor more generous. generally. But Jay Benjamin Rottenborn, Herd's other attorney, specifically honed in on what this case means for domestic abuse survivors. In trying to convince you that Mr. Death has carried his burden of proof in proving that he was never abusive to Amber on even one occasion, think about the message that Mr. Death and his attorneys are sending to Amber and by extension to every victim of domestic abuse everywhere. If you didn't take pictures, it didn't happen.

If you did take pictures, they're fake. If you didn't tell your friends, you're lying. And if you did tell your friends, they're part of the hoax. If you didn't seek medical treatment, you weren't injured. If you did seek medical treatment, you're crazy. If you do everything that you can to help your spouse, the person that you love, rid himself of the crushing drug and alcohol abuse that spins him into an abusive, rage-filled monster, you're a nag.

And if you finally decide that enough is enough, you've had enough of the fear, enough of the pain, and you have to leave to save yourself, you're a gold digger. That is the message that Mr. Death is a good. asking you to say. But he doesn't stop there, because in Mr. Depp's world, you don't leave Mr. Depp. And if you do, he will start a campaign of global humiliation against you. A smear campaign that lasts at this very day. He will do everything he can to destroy your life, to destroy your career. That is what they're saying, ladies and gentlemen. That was so important. Don't victim blame. don't judge them for what they do or don't do.

That's not fair. That's wrong. All of Amber's actions or inactions can be explained. They then turn to the counterclaims. Again, they need to do two things with these counterclaims. One, they need to show that Adam Waldman's statements saying Amber Hurd's allegations are a hoax were defamatory. But not only that, but they need to tie the statements of Adam Waldman, Johnny Depp's attorney, to Depp. So let's talk about the counterclaim for a moment.

These are Adam Waldman's statements. You've heard Mr. Depp say, well, why aren't you suing Mr. Waldwin? Isn't that typical of Mr. Depp? He doesn't take responsibility for anything. So now he's going to blame his lawyer. But the evidence is very clear on all three statements, and we'll show them to you in a minute, that he says, Adam Waldman, Mr. Depp's attorney, says these things. Now, Mr. Depp says, oh, I didn't even know about those until the counterclaim.

Well, we know that's not true because Mr. Waldman's testimony was two months before those statements were made. In February of 2020, Mr. Depp accompanied Mr. Waldman to the Daily Mail, the same place that all three of these statements were published. And he gave him two spliced audio tapes to try to make it look like Amber was the person who was committing the abuse. He went with him. He knew that Mr. Waldman was doing this. He knew that Mr. Waldman was launching a campaign against Amber to try to discredit her. And the timing of this, we're talking, the statements now are April and June of 2020. The trial is July of 2020.

So they're launching an attack to try to discredit Amber before the trial in the U.K. That's what happened here. And that is Mr. Waldman, but it's Mr. Depp. The judge gave you three different instructions, and you'll all have them. He's acting as his attorney. He has the authority. So Mr. Depp is standing in the shoes of Mr. Waldman. Mr. Waldman is standing in the shoes of Mr. Depp.

Strong argument there that Walman was doing the bidding of Depp and Depp either knew or authorized these statements. So all in all, after the closing arguments, the jury was provided some final jury instructions by the judge. Two alternates were released for now. if something happens to a juror during deliberations, those alternates can be called back. And then the jury was sent out finally to begin their deliberations. They lasted about two hours, and then they were excused for the long weekend to come back on Tuesday.

You know, I get asked, when will the jury get back with a verdict? It's really always impossible to guess in cases like this. A lot of statements to consider, a lot of evidence to weigh. And of course, the issue of damages is a whole other out. animal. Thanks for joining us here on Sidebar. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. Speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series, ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.