Law&Crime Sidebar - ‘Ultimate Narcissism’: Courtney Clenney Interrogation Ripped Apart by Body Language Expert

Episode Date: December 21, 2022

Body language expert Dr. Lillian Glass breaks down key moments from OnlyFans model Courtney Clenney's four-hour police interrogation after she fatally stabbed her boyfriend Christian Obumseli in April. Dr. Glass and Sidebar host Angenette Levy discuss Clenney's behaviors seen in the footage obtained by the Law&Crime Network.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Justice doesn’t always find itself in a criminal courtroom. Sometimes, it happens in a civil court. Check out Court Junkie’s New Podcast CIVIL for the most fascinating civil trials to date:APPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/civil/id1634071998SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/2t0u9w6Ese6sEotrhlvE5aLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Logan HarrisGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wonderly Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wonderly Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller

that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. We have to inform you that Christian did not make it. Unfortunately, the doctors did what they could. Christian is dead. Oh, my God. That's only fans model Courtney Clennie in the interrogation room learning her boyfriend. Christian Abamselli is dead.

She sounds shocked, but what is her body telling us? We dig into it and the rest of the video. I'm Yenjinnett Levy and welcome to Law and Crime's Sidebar podcast. Courtney Clennie faces a second degree murder charge, you will recall, accused of murdering Christian Abamselly, her boyfriend. during an argument at their apartment in Miami, Florida this past April. She maintains that she acted in self-defense during an argument. Clunney was interviewed for hours about the fight and the stabbing.

Law and Crime was actually the first outlet to obtain this interrogation video. Plenty was allowed to go home after being interviewed by police and learning that Christian Albem Sully had passed away. She was arrested, though, several months later and she is now in jail awaiting trial. And joining me to take a very close look at this video and what the body language of Courtney Clenney could tell us is Dr. Lillian Glass. She is a body language expert. Dr. Glass, welcome here to Sidebar. Thanks for coming on. So glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Dr. Glass, this is a four-hour interrogation clip. There are some pauses in it. There are some periods of silence where

Courtney Clenney is in the room by herself. So let's take a look at our first clip here. Shows Courtney Clunney in the interrogation room. She is wearing a robe, only a robe, and she's asking when she can get to the hospital to see Christian Albem Sully, who is suffering from a knife wound. And she keeps asking about how he's doing. So let's take a look. Like, I just cannot believe the way of my day went. Yeah. It's way worse than I just definitely want to get to the hospital.

Yeah. We'll talk to nine. Like I desperately once to the hospital. Right. I mean, either way, so you don't rush, you know, you still won't be able to see him at this point, obviously. You still what? You wouldn't be able to see him at this point, so that way you don't have to do. You're still working.

You're still taking care of him, you know. It's processed, so they don't know. I just want to be there. I can. So, yeah, we'll talk about that. Okay. Okay. You'll one second.

Thank you. You're working on him. Dr. Glass, I'm curious about your thoughts on this. She says, I just can't believe the way my day went. That to me seems like something you say when you get a flat tire or you're late for work or your lunch order is messed up. So your thoughts on that clip and her talking about she can't believe how this day went and she just wants to get to the hospital. What does her body language say to you? This is all about her, and it's, you see a lot of high drama kind of histrionics in terms of how she's coming across.

It's really all about her. And then when she hears, he's working on her, you hear the changes in her tone. He's, they're working on it. They're working on it. They're working on him. And she's got this annoyed tone. So there's a lot of annoyance there. She just wishes this would be over.

And really, it's about her and how she's feeling. A family frustrated with the outcome of an investigation into their loved one's death. A man who was wrongfully and publicly accused of a crime he didn't commit wants compensation for the months he spent locked up in jail. These are just some of the stories covered in court junkie's new podcast titled Civil. When justice can't be acquired through the criminal court system, that means a lot of people often go to the civil courts. Civil explores some of the most fascinating civil trials. Each episode covers a single case. Thank Alex Jones to O.J. Simpson to cases the listeners have likely never heard of before.

Like a principal who hypnotized his students and then three of those students died tragic deaths or a teenager faced with a suspension at school, all because of a post on Snapchat. New episodes are released biweekly, subscribe to Civil on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And I thought that was interesting that it was about her. And obviously she's going to be concerned for her own well-being and her own future. She's sitting in a police interrogation room, which would be incredibly stressful. Do you gather at this point she knows she's probably in big trouble? I don't think so. I think at this point is she's annoyed like they're working on them.

Okay, come on already. You know, let's come on, get on with it. It's really all about her. We're seeing the ultimate in narcissism here. is about her. You know, how my dame, you wouldn't believe how my day. What about this man? I wonder how my boyfriend's doing. I hope he's okay. None of that is going on. It's all about her. Well, let's take a look at this second clip. In this clip, the detectives with the Miami Police Department actually come into the room. They're joining her. This is about 19 minutes into the interrogation room video.

She's been sitting in there for a little bit by herself, crying and things like that. They walk in, and this is when they first kind of encounter her before their interview begins. You don't have to apologize for it. All right. Detective Rossino. Okay. And then my partner, Sergeant, and Rodriguez. Okay.

Today's Sunday, April 3, and the time is 7.36 p.m. All right. What's your first name? Courtney. Can you spell it for M-T? C-O-U-R-T. N-E-Y. Okay. And your last name?

C-O-E-O. NMBI. Okay. What is $1.99? Dr. Glass, I'm interested to know what you think about the way Courtney Clennie greeted these officers.

It almost, to me, felt like she's saying, my apologies for being covered in blood, and she uses the F word there. It's almost like something you would say to your friends or something. Exactly. It's, again, all about her. You just see that.

this narcissism, this ultimate narcissism, me, me, me. And you just see her arms crossed over her body. Again, it's where she's trying to be very protective. But to say, excuse me for being covered in blood, like she's doing a YouTube video and wants to apologize that she doesn't look right. You know, and it's so disheartening and cold. And I just, it does seem kind of casual to me, just kind of pedestrian for having been through something, and I don't know how I would react.

Obviously, none of us know how we would react if we had stabbed somebody, no matter what our claim of the defense was, but I just thought it was very casual. That's what struck me about it. Very casual, and it's about her. But even if you stab somebody, you want to know what's going on with them. You have some feeling about them. And this is really directed back to her, back to her outfit, that it had blood on it. And again, you know, you really see a good picture of her character.

Now, let's take a look at a clip that's just a couple of minutes later. And we need to keep in mind, this is a video that's four hours long. It includes those long periods that I talked about earlier. But this clip is about 22 minutes into the entire four-hour video. And Courtney Clunney starts to ask whether or not Christian Abumselli is okay. So let's take a look at this clip and we'll talk about it on the other side. Is he okay? He's still at the hospital.

I know. I'm monitoring him and talking to him. So we're waiting. Oh my God, so he didn't even have to have surgery? Well, I don't know. They're still doing x-rays and stuff like that. So I don't know yet. I'm waiting to hear a response.

That's all I have to know. Thank God. So we'll get to that in a little bit. Okay. And once we're done, I'll go talk to the response. done. I'll go talk to them again and see what's the update. Okay. So Dr. Glass, she is saying, thank God, when these officers say to her, they're doing x-rays. I mean, they're still acting like he's still alive. I don't know if they knew

that he had already passed away. And this is some type of tactic. But she's saying, oh, thank God, that's all I needed. Well, you see her arms out like, oh, she's so surprised. She's so excited. And then her posture changes. She has more erect posture. She's starting to feel more confident. And she's starting to get a little cocky. So when they're asking her questions, it's, she doesn't give out a lot. So again, you're just seeing her completely change in her demeanor where she's feeling a lot more self-assured and a lot more confident. I thought it was weird, you know, that she's saying that's all I needed. It kind of brings it back to her again. She is expressing concern for him. I mean, she is. But her body, so you think she's looking a little more

or feeling a little more confident there because she's thinking, oh, he made it or he's going to make it? Yeah, again, again, it's, oh, great, the over extension of the hands. I'm just, oh, this is so great. Now I'm off the hook. And then immediately, when you see the posture change,

that's what tells you, again, it's about her and really not about him. Is he okay? When will we find out how he's doing? No compassion whatsoever. Dr. Glass, the next question, clip we are going to look at is where Courtney Clennie is basically explaining what happened that day. She said that they were going to go to the park, something about taking maybe the

dogs to the park, and he had gone out and gotten her a subway sandwich, is what she says. Then she talks about this argument they get into and how the stabbing occurred. So let's take a look at that really quickly. Like something about, well, what if I'm somewhere you don't want me to be? Okay. Which I wouldn't have been. I love him. But, like, you know, maybe you don't want to know where I am.

I guess maybe it would just, like, heard him because he was pressing me. And he ended up pinning me against the wall. And then, I mean, I said, like, just like, just like, choking me on the floor, it's just like, they were looking at my neck and I was like, I mean, I'm not saying like choking me like, you know, whatever. But I mean, it had my like neck. Like I, and this happened twice before, where I couldn't breathe and I was on the floor. I could not breathe. And I don't think that he's just trying to kill me. But I was scared. And all three times I have been scared. So yeah, I'm on the floor. any heavy been and lets me up um

I'm on the uh get my mom on the phone and I'm just trying I really remember Hey my mom I'm on the phone um

and I remember she was standing like against the couch like we were like we were obviously it was a big deal at this point um so this happened like over by the door and somehow it was like over in the living room he was standing by the couch facing for the kitchen I was in the kitchen and then he just like

I could see like all the eyes in his eyes and it was like like coming at me and so I grabbed I grabbed one of these knives my mom coming for Christmas and I was like I swear I swear to God I swear God It was just like I mean I I would be like don't come anywhere

to me because I mean earlier I was having two other times I couldn't breathe I'm sorry I couldn't breathe and it's very scary and I just think like

just like this kind of thing where I was saying like do you know if he's okay if he's like if he's choking me and he's angry enough he might like I mean this is different I think but if he's like choking me or like pinning me or something and I can't breathe he might go out with you long so I grab my

sorry I grab my I grab my knife I said don't come anywhere closer to me I had absolutely no intention of using it I on the phone my mom and he's coming at me like he's going to grab either the phone or like the knife or something and so I was just like I I was like don't come any closer coming at me I do it. Dr. Glass, what do you make of Courtney Clennie's body language in this clip? She's talking about, she's kind of describing being choked by Christian Albemselli. She's talking about the knife, where she was in the house.

Your thoughts on that particular clip and her explanation. Well, one of the things she does is she leaks out the truth in terms of her body language. Like when she says, you know, I love him and then she touches her nose. And that's a signal of deception. You wonder if she really did love him. And then you see some shoulder shrugs when she's talking. There's a, she tells a story that's inconsistent. He choked her, and then he didn't choke her.

He was on the floor, and then she was near the refrigerator. So it's very inconsistent, and she speaks in telegraphic terms, which means she doesn't have a consistent flow of what's going on or telling the story. So it's a little choppy, telegraphic bits of information. And that's a signal of deception. So you wonder what really happened there. Why is touching the nose a sign of deception? Can you explain that to us?

Yes. Oftentimes the capillaries in our body, when we lie or something is not being told that's the truth, our blood flow changes. So that must have happened when she says, I love him. And that's a pretty serious thing, loving, especially since he's in the condition he's in, She had what's called an autonomic nervous system reaction. And so that's why she was pulling at her nose. Okay.

The last clip we are going to review is the one where Courtney Clenny is told that Christian Obamselli died. The man she's been living with had obviously altercations with over the last many months has passed away. He didn't make it after she says she threw this knife and it hit him and he started bleeding, things like that. So this is about three and a half hours in to the video when the police inform her that he didn't make it that he died. So let's take a look at that. 10.45 p.m. right now. Okay.

So I have a picture. Let me know if this is Christian or not. Okay. Yeah, sure. That's Christian. Okay. So we have to you? Yeah. Um, so we have to inform me that Christian did not make it. Okay. Um, unfortunately the doctors did what they could.

Christian is dead. Yeah. Oh my God. This is not real right, okay. No, there's a fucking way. Kristen died? Can I please have a hug? Am I allowed to do that in here? Sure.

Okay. Relax. No, no, no. Come down. Come down. Okay. Take your breath. You're going to be okay.

I need to hug my mom. I'll talk to your parents. I'll talk to your parents. your parents are going to be left alone in like a room by myself. You're not being. I'm good. Dr. Glass, your thoughts on her body language, how she moved when they told her that he was dead, that he didn't make it.

When they told her she was in complete shock, she grabbed her throat, which is the most vulnerable part of your body. And then she just couldn't believe it. She has a defensive body language posture. She crosses her body language over. she's just absolutely shocked and she can't believe it and she thinks they're lying and so she has to process it so she doesn't have the reactions oh no he's dead and and these emotions come out she is in the denial stage of what's going on at first she was in the shock stage and you really

see her body going into a shock and then she's pleading with denial no you know you're you're lying or you're not telling me the truth and uh you know she she's just trying to grasp what really happened. So you see the whole change in her physical stature in her body. So in your view, the way she reacted by touching the neck, the way she was positioning her body, that physical reaction, was that authentic shock or was that her acting? It sounds like you think it was authentic. This was the first time you really see something authentic because she's grabbing her heart. She's grabbing her throat. She's really feeling it. She's grabbing her stomach. She's having some bodily reaction to this news. So it's not like, she's cold at this point. In other

instances was we watch the interview. You know, there's a lot of contrived behavior and she's really talking about herself and it's about her. But here is a situation where we really see her going through the stages of grief. And the first one is shock. We see the shock in her body. It's really changed. So you didn't think she was authentic up until this point. But in this moment, you do think she was being authentic because that's interesting to me. Was she just acting and trying to, I mean, do you think she had hope that he was really going to live? I think she did because, you know, again, she has this narcissistic attitude and, you know,

she could never do anything like that or he deserved it or that's, you know, her thought process. And now she realizes she's in the police office and he didn't make it. Now she's got a murder charge on her hands. And she's absolutely shocked. But again, I would say that she's more shocked about herself and her predicament than she'd be shocked about what actually is going on and what's happened to him. But she is showing some visceral signs of severe shock and severe issues. Well, Dr. Lillian Glass, we really appreciate your time today as we break down this video. We hope to have you back on. Thanks so much.

And that's it for this edition of Law and Crime Sidebar Podcast. It is produced by Sam Goldberg. Logan Harris does our video editing. Bobby Zoki is our YouTube manager. Alyssa Fisher handles our bookings. And Kiera Bronson does our social media. You can listen to and download Sidebar on Apple, Spotify, Google, and wherever else you get your podcast,

you can always watch it as well on Law and Crimes YouTube channel. I'm Angie Nett Levy, and we will see you next time. You can binge all episodes of this Law and Crime series, ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.