Law&Crime Sidebar - Utah ‘Karen’ Faces Sexual Battery Charge After Tugging on Teen’s Skirt

Episode Date: May 4, 2024

Ida Ann Lorenzo was in a crowded Utah restaurant earlier this month when police say she thought a person’s skirt was too short, so she pulled down on it. Lorenzo believed the girl was nude under the skirt and was exposing herself. The victim says that’s not true. Video of the confrontation between the 19-year-old and Lorenzo has since gone viral. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber discusses the situation and the consequences with trial attorney Brian Claypool.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOWIf you’ve used Incognito mode in Google’s Chrome browser, find out if you have a claim in a few clicks by visiting https://incognitoclaims.com/sidebarHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondery app Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview, the latest installment of the gripping Audible Original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the grand. View Shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in this supernatural thriller that

will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. I happen to work for the state, and if I have to watch your cheeks hanging out again, I will call if yes. A Utah woman is facing a charge of sexual battery and has been labeled a Karen on line after she allegedly pulled down a young woman's skirt that she said was too short. What? We're breaking down the situation and the consequences with trial attorney Brian Claypool.

Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Hey, everybody, this is a law and crime legal alert. Google Incognito tracked users browsing data without their knowledge. And Mass Tort Alliance, one of our legal sponsors, is helping users file for compensation. due to Google misleading the privacy of their incognito browser. So if you've used Google Incognito any time since 2016, you can start your claim in less than 10 questions at incognito claims.com

slash sidebar. Well, I'm sure you know that in today's day and age, one small video clip can spell disaster. I think that's pretty clear. And that is what a woman found out after she confronted a teenager inside of a restaurant in St. George, Utah earlier this month. Now, according to police, Ida and Lorenzo is facing a charge of sexual battery for her conduct.

What happened? Well, let's get into it. So there is this video of this argument at a Japanese steakhouse taking place on Saturday, April 20th, and it was filmed by the teen's friend and cut together for TikTok. Right now, it has been viewed on the site more than 8 million times. Take a look. I happen to work for the state, and if I have to watch your cheeks hanging out again, I will call CPS.

Do it. Oh? Yeah, go for her right now. She's over 18. She is 19 years old. You don't get to touch her. You don't get to touch her. You can come up and talk her.

You do not get to touch her. Really? We would love for you to call the police. Go ahead and call the police. Okay, so let's break this down. According to the reported 19-year-old and her friends, before the video starts, Lorenzo had physically tugged down on the woman's skirt, which was considered by her to be too short,

the friend who took the video, posted a follow-up video. And she comes up to my friend, and she reaches under her skirt, yanks it down, and then squeezes her sides because she's wearing her crop top. And it's like, you're probably on your age, you probably shouldn't be wearing that. which you just imply that you think she's a minor and you just assaulted her. The statement of probable cause in Lorenzo's court case is that Lorenzo herself actually reported the incident.

Quote, Ida approached the woman and pulled her skirt down and told her to be aware of what she was showing, especially with small kids around. This caused all the people with her to accuse Ida of sexually assaulting the female. Lorenzo reported that the girl had her skirt hiked up above her private area and that everything was exposed to people in the restaurant because she wasn't wearing any underwear. Then, after the video was posted and started going viral, Lorenzo called 911 again to say that she had been outed online. The problem cause statement noted, quote, Ida stated the subjects involved have posted a video of her along with her name, insinuating this was sexual in nature.

She believes that because she is a member of the community and holds a position with the state that this now is a threat on her life. She was explained to call the non-emergency number. So the following day, Sunday, Lorenzo spoke with a police officer in person, and she reportedly told the officer that she believed that this teen was actually a minor and that she threatened to call Child Protective Services to file an indecent exposure report. The officer wrote in his report, quote, Ida stated that a 10-year-old boy near her that she had no relation to, pointed at the female's clothing, and the boy's father did not do anything about it. Ida felt that it was her responsibility to address the female by approaching her and attempted to pull down. on the female skirt to cover what Ida explained to be exposed genitalia. Ida said that the female ignored her, so Ida threatened to contact CPS, the file of report against the indecent exposure she had committed against the 10-year-old.

Ida told me that she assumed the young female she had approached to be a minor as well, asked her why she thought it was appropriate to touch another person and how she thought that to protect a minor would mean to touch another assumed minor. Ida's response was that she never touched the female and that she had only touched the female's skirt. I explained to Ida that she still had engaged in criminal behavior by touching the female's clothing and that her behavior was not appropriate. I asked her why she did not call the police and she told me that it would have taken

the police too long to respond so she had to take action herself. Ida told me that the female and her group of friends filmed a portion of the incident posted the video to multiple social media platforms with the tagline of being a Karen. And then we go to Monday because the 19-year-old came forward to police saying that she was sexually assaulted. She told investigators that Lorenzo came up behind her without any warning, touched her rear end, pulled at her skirt. She says that she felt startled and violated. The teen provided a video of herself in the skirt that night and explained she was wearing underwear. So whatever Lorenzo thought she saw, she did not. Multiple witnesses also reportedly spoke with

police about this very strange confrontation. And on Wednesday, officers went to talk to Lorenzo again. I advised Ida of her Miranda rights. interviewed her. I explained that there was probable cause to support that Ida had committed sexual battery. Ida continued to deny that she ever touched the victim's skin and stated she only touched her skirt to pull it down. Ida believe that A.L. was a minor and that she needed to intervene. I explained to Ida that the belief that the victim was a minor should have been more reason to not touch the victim. I informed Ida that the victim provided evidence to suggest she was not lewd in public and that vaginal exposure had never been mentioned during the

of the incident. Ida continued to state that she believed the female was completely nude underneath her skirt. Ida also provided a written statement with this information. So Lorenzo, she was booked into a jail facility in Hurricane Utah on one count of sexual battery, which is a Class A misdemeanor. She's since been released. The charge has a potential sentence of up to a year in jail and a $25,000 fine. Videos on social media seem to suggest that Lorenzo worked for or with the Utah Attorney General's office. We reached out to them. They neither confirmed nor denied that, saying in a statement, we are aware of the situation and are following AGO policies and procedures.

Ms. Lorenzo is not represented by the Utah Attorney General's office. All media and legal responses will need to come personally from her. Now, an initial court appearance is scheduled for June, and we actually had an interview with Ms. Lorenzo set up, but she informed us that upon advice of her lawyer, she thought it best not to comment at this time. We will, of course, respect that. So let me bring on trial attorney Brian Claypool to talk a little bit more about this.

Brian, good to see you. Wow. What do we think of this one? Well, I got to tell you, dude, she should probably be charged with two misdemeanors if the second one existed. That's for being dumb, right? Like being dumb is not a crime. That's not a crime. That's not a crime.

But Jesse, after seeing this case, maybe we could talk to the Utah legislature about instituting a crime for being dumb because if there was a crime for that she'd be charged with that as well look I got bad news for Lorenzo because under Utah law for sexual assault it doesn't require skin on skin contact contact that's an important point here the law says that even if she touches a skirt or a piece of clothing as long as Lorenzo is touching the clothing of a private area for example your buttocks or the anus area or the anus area or the vaginal area. Here the allegation

and the video shows that Lorenzo touched the skirt around her buttocks area. So look, I don't really know what kind of defense she's going to have given that that's the element of the crime. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a guilty plea.

I don't think, you know, she didn't clearly know the law, but you're 100% right. You don't have to make skin-on-skin contact, although the victim in this case says that she touched her. So let's talk. a little bit about a defense though because let me phrase this a defense I'm using air quotes

here according to the police booking affidavit I said again Ida stated that she was sitting down in this waiting area she sees this victim this female she sees this 10 year old boy had pointed to the to this young woman and the boy's father didn't do anything so she felt it was her responsibility to address this to pull down this woman's skirt um and then she said that she didn't call police because she thought that it would take too long. I, you know, Lorenzo allegedly told police that the young woman ignored her. So that's why she felt threatened to call CPS. I guess the question is, is there ever, if you really did have somebody who was nude.

Okay, let's say she was nude. If you take a blanket and you put it on that person or you try to put their clothing back on, would that be sexual battery? I mean, is it really dependent upon if that person is nude or not? It's a great analogy and it's an interesting question because, you know, is conduct justified if it's promoting, for example, public policy here or to create a more, you know, purient interest in the community to protect? For example, I think Lorenzo said there was a, you know, some young kids around. I think you mentioned like a 10-year-old. So if there's a, think about it, if there's a 10-year-old around and the victim is dressed in a provocative way, and the 10-year-old's father is doing nothing to confront the woman who's dressed in a provocative manner, and a concerned citizen wants to take it upon herself to remove something that she believe could be offensive to other children looking at it, I mean, I think that's the argument she has to make.

And look, who knows, if this case, it does go to trial. I mean, Utah is a pretty conservative community. And there might be some jurors on there that might just kind of do this when it comes to the law, cover their eyes, and say, hey, wait a minute, maybe we're not going to find this woman guilty because she was doing something to promote what she believed is in the best interest of other children. But in other words, what you're saying is it's not necessarily. she's hoping for a legal defense. She's hoping for something like jury nullification. Like you have a jury member who would say, yeah, you know, she touched her, but I don't want her prosecuted for this.

Great point. Yeah. Thanks for making that distinction. That's why you're hosting the show and I'm a guest on the show. But it's the point. It's the point. They would feel sympathy for her. And they're not supposed to do that.

But look. Yeah, look at a great analogy, the President Trump's hush money trial going on. I mean, you, there's another. good example of what you're calling jury nullification. There, if you look at that case purely on the legal angle, it looks like there's not much of a case proving that Trump, you know, commanded somebody to falsify a financial statement. But that's a good example there too, because there could be some jurors on there and say, look, look, this looks kind of bad. I don't really like the way President Trump lived his life with two alleged affairs. And we're going to find him guilty, right?

not based on the facts on the law, but more of a, of a, you know, personal view they have. It happens. It happens. It's all the time, unfortunately, and it's a concern in a lot of cases. I want to go back, though, to her, I'm trying to understand her justification here. And I'm going to ask you about if you were representing her, if you think she should do media interviews at any point in this. We'll get to that in a second. But here's my question.

She threatened to call CPS, apparently was going to file an indecent exposure report. I don't know what that means. Do you know what that means? So, again, if there's a. minor here whose skirt, if she was a minor, her skirt was too high? What does that mean you're going to call CPS and file an indecent exposure report? Do you know? Well, well, here's a problem. What constitutes indecent exposure? Because the victim was, I think, 19, right? So she's not even a minor. Right. And think about it. What if what if what if what if, what if the victim was in the

restaurant wearing a bathing suit? I mean, what I, I think, I think, I think Loret Lorenzo is concerned about the skirt being too hot. Maybe you could see the victim's butt cheeks. But when women are wearing bathing suits at a beach or anywhere else, and by the way, like in the summertime, you know, I've got a place in La Jolla, which is not far from San Diego, I go in restaurants there. In the summertime especially, you see people walking around, even in public restaurants in beating suits. So I don't, I think that's the key issue. What is indecent exposure? And I don't think that, you know, Lorenzo can take. it upon herself to determine what's indecent exposure to me is, you know, full, like you mentioned before, some kind of full nudity. Maybe you can see, you know, the vaginal area or maybe, for example, the victim is allegedly maybe touching herself in a, in an odd way. That to me is indecent exposure, but look, the bigger issue in this case is can other adults take it upon themselves to, you know, rectify a situation, and in so doing, break the law.

This is almost like being a vigilante, if you think about it. And she doubled down on it, right? She doubled down on it with officers. She kept saying, like, you know, almost like, no, she was exposed. No, there was this child. No, I had to take it upon myself to do this. But whether this person was a minor or an adult, it's still illegal to do that. It's still illegal.

You can't say, I'm going to fight indecent. exposure by trying to take actions into my own hands, that's not a, that's not a defense, right? Not a defense to say, I'm trying to fight against an decent exposure, which is, which again, could be a crime, but yeah. Yeah, and getting back to your point, your question about the calling CPS, I think, I think what she, and for some of your viewers and listeners, that's child protective services, I think, I think, you know, what she's saying is, hey, there's a parent, right?

there wasn't there a parent of like a uh i thought there was a parent of a 10 year old like i guess i think she was trying to get people to intervene yeah confront the but nobody was the nobody did exactly i think that's what led to me i'm going to get you know child protective services uh involved here but look i you know i think there's a bit you we've got to talk about here and by no means am i saying that that lorenzo uh did this or was thinking this at all Please don't take it that way. But I actually have a case. It's a civil case.

And by the way, this 19-year-old has a civil case as well if she wanted to for assault and battery. Right. Well, maybe not assault because she didn't see it, but clearly it's a battery. But look, look, I have a case against the city of Santa Monica where the head of an after-school program would hug the teenage girls when they would come into the center like at four. clock he would hug them and then his kind of hand roamed kind of down near their hips and then you know our clients say he actually touched uh the buttocks you know not skin on skin but over the clothes and another thing he did jesse which was bizarre was he would get in the van to drive the kids somewhere the teenagers and he would immediately jolt the van forward like hit the gas and hit the brakes real

quick and then the girl and the passenger see she would go forward like this right and then he put his arm kind of around the front of her and then his hand kind of went around her their breast area look the only reason i'm bringing that is up is because there are some some weird people out there that are aware they think they're aware of the law right and they think they can get away with things that are not skin on skin right because if you think if you go went out interview 10 people hey do you think sexual assault arises if you don't touch the person's skin maybe nine out of 10 would say well that can't be a crime But I'm not saying she's doing any of this.

But it's important to prosecute this because of that. And it doesn't have to be sexual. It doesn't have to be with a sexual purpose. Like it's not there for gratification, right? And I think that's something that she focused on too. Like she was concerned about this being sexual nature. Well, it's just the idea of you touching is what makes it a sexual better. You don't have to have some for your personal gratification in order to be convicted of this.

That's exactly right. But the thing is now, what's so interesting about it is, She's not saying she didn't do it, right? She's not saying, I didn't touch her. It would show me it. We don't have it on tape. I never touched her. She's like, no, I touched her, but there was a reason.

So I don't know. Do you really think she's going to take this to trial? Do you think she's going to plead guilty? And if this is a Class A misdemeanor and she pleads guilty, what realistically could she be looking at? Yeah, I think she really needs to come to her senses. I think what really hurts her case is, didn't she make a comment where she felt like this was a threat to her life? I mean, that, that comment leads me to believe that she's got some kind of, you know. Yeah, because she said that since she is a member of the community and holds this position with the state, that this is now a threat on her life.

She was talking about where people were insinuating that this was sexual in nature, and she didn't like that the video was being posted. So she's considered, I mean, according to that she thought that she was a threat on her life. Yeah, the fact that Lorenzo is saying this is some kind of threat on her life is a deflection, right? what I mean by that is she now is trying to become the victim right like she does this alleged bad act and now all of a sudden oh you're taping it uh I didn't intend it to be a sexual act now I'm now it's being shown I think you said eight million views now and oh my you know my life is in jeopardy I don't think that helped her when she said that because it makes her again look like she's now the victim and really is she's thinking straight but again you make a good

point just so we're clear it's just the intent to commit the act it's required the intent to pull down or to pull up the skirt I'm sorry and and that's all this required look at the end of the day she needs to try to cop a plea deal and the reality is she's likely just to get probation if this is a first time incident but she she she needs to she needs to put this a bed and hope that if she is working for the state attorney that she doesn't lose her job over this and look I will say, again, I'm not surprised that she didn't want to come out and speak now, but it does make me wonder if she were to take a guilty plea. Would you advise her as your lawyer? I think you should explain your side of the story to the public. I think you should speak to media. Would you advise

her to do that? Yeah, what I would advise her to do is, first of all, she's got to take a plea deal that's not going to require any kind of, you know, registering as a sexual offender. I'm not sure you can get that with a misdemeanor. But I think I, look, I think what she did is, wrong but you don't want to see somebody's career you know really ruined because of this action so I think she's going to have to have a lawyer that's going to cut a plea deal you know possibly for a lesser charge which is just you know so maybe assault and battery without the sexual connotation or she pleads to the sexual you know assault no jail time and she's not required to register anywhere but look if i had her talk coming on your show what what I would tell her to do say is like look

Look, I had good intentions. My intentions were not to expose children to what I perceive to be a woman dressing in a provocative way that doesn't send a good message to these kids. And it's in a public place. So that was my goal. Hey, did I handle it the right way? No. What I should have done is, you know, tap the young lady on the shoulder and said, hey, look, would you mind maybe, you know, pulling up your skirt? And then that doesn't work.

You know what I would have done too? Hey, then I probably should have gone to the owner of the restaurant and said, hey, can you talk to the victim? So that's what I'd have her talk about on your show. But, yeah, what, you know, her version of what happened and how this has affected her is not working. So she needs a PR consultant. And what's interesting about that is if she would have gone that route, if she would have went up to that woman or she even went up to the manager, I'm not saying it would have been successful. But it would have been even more effective than just initially just grabbing. the skirt, which is what she's accused of doing.

So if she had the confidence to go up and allegedly grab the skirt, she could have had the confidence to have a rational conversation about it. But it seems like she didn't. We'll continue to see where this goes. It's just a really strange case to say the least. But Brian Claypool, good to see you. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me, Jesse.

That's all we have for you here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. As always, please subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.