Law&Crime Sidebar - Who Did Hollywood Side With During Depp v. Heard?

Episode Date: June 7, 2022

Which celebrities supported Johnny Depp or Amber Heard during the course of their incredible trial? What will the stars careers look like now? What is the future of #metoo? Are the rumors of Amber Heard being replaced on Aquaman 2 true? Law&Crime's Jesse Weber and Mediaite Entertainment Reporter Leia Idliby break it all down. SUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeLEIA IDIBILY: Entertainment coverage: www.mediaite.com/entertainmentTwitter: Leia_idlibySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. Welcome to Sidebar, everybody presented by Law and Crime. This is where we recap the biggest moments in the day's biggest cases. I'm Jesse Weber. We're talking about Johnny Depp, Amber Heard. You know, this was the trial. This was the celebrity trial, unlike I think, anything we've ever seen and anything we may ever seen. There were so many different aspects of it. We talked the law, we talked the money, but the celebrity, the social, the cultural impact of this trial is absolutely huge.

You know, one of the most interesting things that think about is who was supporting who during the course of this case. And I don't mean outside the courtroom. I mean, I was in Fairfax County, Virginia. It was a majority of Johnny Depp supporters out there, a few sprinklings of Amber Heard supporters. What about Hollywood? What about which celebrities were actually supporting Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, which is tough, because it's a tough, strange case. Do you support Johnny Depp, who was accused of physical and sexual abuse? Do you support Amber Heard, was accused of lying about him? And clearly the jury believed that. I mean, in the end, Depp won on each of his claims. The jury found every one of her statements in the Washington Post article were defamatory about Depp, that she wasn't a victim, that he wasn't. that he wasn't an abuser. And now I know she won with respect to one counterclaim, but let's be honest here, all right? This was a total win for Johnny Depp in the eyes of the jury and the eyes of the court of law.

But let's talk a little bit more about the celebrity aspect of it. There's so many different cultural underpinnings here. So who can help talk to me about this better than Leah It'll Be, who is the entertainment reporter for Mediite. Mediaite is our sister network, our sister company, all under the umbrella of our founder, Abrams. Leah, thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. We're excited to have you. So, I mean, I want to ask you, this was actually when we're talking about how we're going to have you on. One of the interesting questions, and I never even thought about it. I didn't look at it this much. Is who in Hollywood was supporting who during the

course of the trial, maybe after it? So during the course of the trial, before we knew the verdict, let's start with Johnny Depp. Who was supporting him? A lot of the important support that Depp was getting was from his exes, from Kate Moss, Vanessa Parity, Winona Ryder. They all said, you know, he's never acted violently towards me. Kate Moss even testified. Depp was getting support from other big names like Chris Rock. Chris Rock said, believe all women except Amber Hurd. He tweeted that? He tweeted that? I think he may have said it live or maybe at it during a show or something. And then of course, like Joe Rogan was supporting Depp. By the way, do you think from a PR perspective and likelihood perspective, do you think Johnny Depp would go sit with Joe Rogan? Yeah, maybe people are

panting him as this like anti-me-to movement. Victor. and, you know, Joe Rogan himself is like someone that continuously wins these cancel battles and all these attempts to cancel him. And I don't know, I can kind of see the connection there that Depp would be interested in doing an interview with someone kind of similar in that way. Who else was supporting Johnny Depp? Basically everyone. Yeah.

Was it a majority of people who I were supporting Depp? From what I saw, yeah, I think it was really clear when they released the post-verdict statements. I think it's like more than 80 stars, big-name stars, liked. Johnny Depp's statement while like four or five liked Amber Heard, and one of them was Jason Mamoa who liked both. But didn't he delete it? I read that he deleted it. He liked both and then deleted it. Oh, he may have deleted it. You see, I think that his like was more of a supporting that it's over. Right. I don't think he was really trying to voice any opinion. That was another trend. I noticed, like, even Megan McCain at one point was like, the Me Too movement is over or something.

A lot of general, this trial just was horrible, takes, not one side or the other kind of thing. I say generally speaking, Depp has the majority of the support by far. Before we go into the people who have been supporting Amber Heard, do you think it changed during the course of the trial, like, or did you see it, hey, you know, at the very beginning of this, we're supporting Johnny Depp, we kept the support throughout, or as things were coming out during the course of the trial, people were learning more about it. They switched their opinion and said, I'm sticking with Johnny on this. I'm not sure.

I didn't notice that so many people kind of switched their positions if they had already made positions, but there were some people that were silent. throughout and then now pro-heard statements like ed norton he hasn't said anything about the trial but he liked a post the post said it's on men to recognize what really happened here and i think him liking that was kind of a men for amber heard a statement in some way but he had remained silent throughout the trial so some more amber heard support is trickling in like from who else besides edward norton i think that one of her more vocal supporters is julia fox she was in uncut gems and then No, no, no, no, no, no, no, she wasn't.

No, she was in un-cut jams. I hope that makes the cut. Julia, what do you think about the verdict? Yeah, maybe. I don't know, kind of. Kind of. Well, when I was amused in un-got jams, well, she was pretty vocal in her support throughout.

I mean, she got a lot of backlash. She commented on Instagram saying this whole idea of mutual abuse is not real. Like, there was a power imbalance. Johnny Depp was twice Amber Heard's age. Basically, she said, even if her it hit Depp, it's not mutual abuse. And she got a lot of hate, but that's actually something that activists have been saying for a long time. That's not news that the idea that mutual abuse, that there's a primary aggressor. So it is interesting that Julia Fox saying that that, I mean, I think it's just that effort,

the internet was so intensely pro-Deb. Did you see that there were witnesses who testified on behalf of Amber Heard who were getting a ton of hate right now? I mean, I just saw the other day that one of the psychiatrists, who was kind of controversial. I mean, he provided kind of weird, odd testimony. He's been getting hated. He actually wrote an article in NewsMex, Newsweek about it. Have you seen that that the people who testified are getting killed on social media and all this? Definitely. I think a lot of her friends are also getting a lot of hate online. I know there was that reporter Eve Barlow. She didn't testify, but she got kicked out of the court. Exactly. So she's also getting a lot of hate on Twitter I've noticed. I wonder if that's

part of the reason that her isn't getting as much support as you would expect from someone who's alleging domestic abuse in a post-me-to world. On some level, people are seeing her get completely wrecked online and kind of don't want to touch it or go near it. Do you think that this is going to have a chilling effect, like Edward Norton said? I mean, in the sense that, you know, in the past few years, you've had people bring accusations against high-profile individuals, predominantly men. And do you think that this trial is going to have that kind of effect? Another person that supported her was Mia Farrow. And I think it'll be interesting to see how this plays out in the long run in terms of, will this become a moment that we look back on and think,

like, oh, this is a woman we failed because, you know, that happened with Britney Spears, it happened with Mia Farrow, it happened with Megan Markle, Janet Jackson, Pamela Anderson, so many. And they're all coming to like kind of right now at the same time, Monica Lewinsky, all these projects highlighting how we failed these women. Fast forward 20 years, are they going to make an HBO special on how we as a society failed Amber Hurd? It's not going to be 20 years. 20 months, 20 days. No, the reason I ask is because I asked this question on the long crime network. And what I've been receiving in response from our experts is that you can't treat this case so much like other ones because Amber Hurd was in a position unlike anybody else. And she did things that the jury didn't

like, that, you know, she was recording Johnny Depp, that there were questions about her bruises, there were questions about, you know, in the audio tapes of the way she was speaking to him, the fact that she admitted to hitting him. And I don't know. I mean, what's your take on it? Because you also have the other side where people are like Julie Foxes. There's no such thing as mutual abuse, but is that too simplistic? I think it's, if anything, it just complicated the conversation in this case. Something I keep hearing is that she wasn't the perfect victim. Yeah. It's hard to grapple with two people that are alleging. abuse. One is a man, one is a woman. Do you just believe the woman? It's definitely more

nuanced than a lot of the Me Too things that came up. You know, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, kind of countless victims, a lot of testimonies, a lot of evidence. And with Depp, it's kind of a, he said, she said, on one side, but also she did have a lot more, I'm not a lawyer, you're the lawyer here, but I think that. I don't just play one on you. From what I've noticed in these type of trials or Me Too accusations, she seemed to have a lot more evidence than anybody else. I mean, because there's so many times that you say, and I actually thought this was a really compelling argument on her attorney's behalf as saying, you know, you're judging her on what she didn't do or you're judging her what she did do. And I was thinking, and I made the point earlier today on the network, is that, you know, she came forward with photographs. She came forward with a video of him smashing cabinets.

Yeah, it might not have been attacking her, but it was him arguably being violent, bruises on her face, corroborating testimony, including from her makeup artists. I thought, I said, this is a stronger case. And I actually didn't think that Johnny Depp legally was going to win. I just thought defamation cases were really tough to prove. I also thought his team did an incredible job. So I wasn't surprised by the verdict. But I also was surprised because I thought she put up a pretty strong case with what she had. One of her attorneys even at one point said, what's the message you're sending that,

oh, if you do have pictures of your bruises, oh, they're not real. But if you don't have pictures of your bruises, why didn't you take any? Or if you did tell your friends, oh, you're lying. if you didn't tell your friends, I have also read from a lot of survivors and activists saying how this will affect domestic abuse allegations moving forward. Are people going to be too scared to come forward? I do see this trend of men that have been accused of abuse suing for defamation. He's not the first to do that. He's not the first high profile person to do that, but I guess it might increase now. Yeah, now with all the sense it was so televised and it was kind of everywhere,

you couldn't really escape it. Maybe he'll inspire others to do the same. Well, let's talk about that. So let's start with her. I really think that there is an incredible uphill battle for her to get her career back. I mean, first of all, let's start with, do you think there's a, is there a, are there groups in favor of Amber Heard? Are there groups that have you seen who said, hey, we're going to help you pay the monetary judgment? I mean, she owes $10,000, $350,000.

As anybody said, hey, I'll help stake it for you, Amber, or we're going to raise money for you. Have you seen any kind of support like that? She has gotten support from some groups. Rain, she got a statement out of Ray. It wasn't necessarily so pro-heard, but it was lamenting how this will affect domestic abuse survivors in the future. And then women in film released a statement saying they were disappointed by the verdict.

But the fact that women in film is one of those groups that took her side, I don't think she's going to be in any movies anytime soon. You don't think so? I don't think that it's going to happen not anytime soon, and I don't think she's going to be in the next big blockbuster. but if an indie female director, you know, who prioritizes casting women believes her and thinks like this is our comeback story, I could see that happening. I read that it was up to 5 million signatures to get her kicked off of Aquaman 2.

Where is that at? And I also read this report that has she officially been kicked off Akman 2, or is that just a rumor? Last time I checked it was just a rumor, but that is a rumor that she's out. Somebody posted an alleged text message exchange on Twitter basically saying they had a meeting. and she's, all her scenes have been cut. But that hasn't been confirmed, so I'm not sure. But the fact that people, I wouldn't be surprised. Johnny Depp is no longer in the Harry Potter prequel.

Fantastic Beasts. Fantastic Beasts. So he's no longer in Fantastic Beasts because he lost. The U.K. The U.K., right. So on that note, would they do something similar, remove Amber Heard from her own franchise because she lost? I mean, it kind of seems like that would be fair,

considering that was the precedent before, but I'm not sure how, though. Well, what's going to be? happen with him now. See, I was of the opinion. Imagine the Verda comes down on a Wednesday. Let's say he had a movie coming out Friday night. I mean, it would have been huge. Definitely. Do you think he's going to be Pirate Six? If it ends up happening, and they don't go with Marco Robbie. The thing about Depp, I think that his career is probably not as tarnished as Amber Heard's. I think definitely not. But this was still kind of a circus. Like, you did see him slamming these cabinets. You read these texts that he sent his friends that

were really hard to read, and maybe his career will bounce back, but I wonder if executives just won't want the headache, won't want to pay what I'm guessing would be a huge salary for debt. And here's the thing, though, have you heard anything about it in the sense like, because I don't know how, how, I also think people have short attention spans and mind frames. So I think people are going to more remember the fact that she lost this case versus, oh, you remember that audio recording of him saying X, Y, and Z? And I think that that is going to be a problem for her, something beneficial for him? Have you heard anybody in Hollywood say, I can't wait, I'm going to call Johnny Depp up for the next movie, or he's in talks now, he's in negotiations, because I shall tell

you this, Camille Vasquez, who represents Johnny Depp, she's now getting offers, I heard, to be, you know, in big law firms across the country, Hollywood law firms because of her performance. So do you anticipate that we're going to see that in the coming weeks about maybe big deals that he's striking? In the coming weeks, no. I think that there's going to be a longer period of time where people are kind of just going to want to hands off of the whole depp-heard situation, take a break, maybe a lot of depth on a lot of screens lately. But I think eventually, yes, I think you're right that people's memory, they have short-term memory, and he's bounced back from allegations before.

He's never also been this perfect guy. He's had other suits. Do these executives want to even add this whole other layer, I think? I have a question for you. Anybody that was brought up during the course of the trial, have they talked about it? Like, for example, Paul Bettney became a big topic. You know, Johnny Depp said he did drugs with him. He was sending him bad messages about Amber Heard.

Did Paul Bettney say anything about this? Or anybody give Paul Bettney a heat for anything that happened? Paul Bettany did say that he was embarrassed that the text had come out, but I don't think he's really getting... I mean, he's a Marvel character. Yeah. He had, like, a massive show come out pretty recently that did really well, Wanda Vision. And, yeah, he's like an Avenger.

And no one's really giving him any heat. Paul Bettney, he's nowhere near as big as Depp, but he does have a similar cult following. The movies he does, Night's Tale, Marvel movies, these are movies that kind of have cult followings. People love them. So overall, when you look back on this case, I mean, for me, I think one of the other big shocking things was it was just incredible to kind of get, like, reveal the curtain and see the celebrity lifestyles. I think a lot of people took that as well, the vacations, the homes, the assistants, the bodyguards, but also really real problems that would happen in a lot

of different relationships, domestic violence, sexual, you know, these were the allegations that were thrown out, alcohol abuse, drug abuse. What surprised you most from the trial looking at it? I mean, just looking back on it. To your point about the whole celebrity lifestyle versus the normal, this is also a regular occurrence in a marriage, I do think on some level this will hurt Hollywood in the sense that there is this right-wing talking point that Hollywood is just completely out of touch. They're these celebrities that spend a lot of money on for no reason, whatever. They're nothing like us. They're the coastal elite. I think that this trial kind of proved that in some way. I mean, their fights were all around the world, right? Like 10 penthouses that they're fighting in,

you know, penthouse eight, penthouse five. It's kind of a ridiculous notion that you would have so many penthouses. I was most surprised by the verdict. I only because she lost every count and they determined malicious intent. I honestly was surprised, but at the same time, I do think that there's no way you leave a courtroom, see these herds of people for Johnny Depp and go, you can't really go online without seeing the whole dep, pro-depth movement. And I wonder if, yeah, I wonder if heard had a point in saying I was completely disparaged after I came forward

I mean it's ironic you saw it happening in real time and then this jury determines that she's guilty on all counts and does it have to do with this hate she was getting at the same time I don't know it's funny you should say that I mentioned that point that ironically the reason she wrote

the Washington Post op ed the reason she says is to point out the fact of what happened to her after she came out publicly against an AILA star and look what happened to her during the course of the trial. Now, I will say the jury came back. You have to respect their verdict. You have to respect the evidence that they sided with. And ultimately, their decision, it's funny because, you know, Amber Hurd's attorneys are making the media tour. Elaine Brederhoff is making the media tour and basically saying, how could these jurors not have been influenced? Like

you said, problem is she's going to have to show that. You know, she's going to have to show that they were influenced that somehow that affected them. It's easier said than done. But then again, this has been a trial. They know who Johnny Depp is. They probably didn't know who Amber Heard was. probably loved Pirates of the Caribbean as much as everyone else did. Yeah. We were talking about this when I interviewed you, and you mentioned it. They didn't know Amber Heard, so this revelation that she did hit Johnny Depp was kind of new also. Yeah.

One quick question before I let you go is the debate. It was a big talk during the course of the trial is how much the Washington Post article hurt his career versus bad movies he did, the drug problems showing up late. And then her, how much did the statements from him and his attorney Adam Walman, which made up the counterclaims? much did that hurt her career and create a whole negative backlash online and, you know, people hated her even before the trial started? What's your take on that? I mean, how much do you think the actions of Amber Hurd or the actions of Johnny Depp really hurt both of them? Washington Post article hurt Depp. Yep. But I think it's also right to say that his movie is declining. You weren't seeing him as much. And then he scored this a couple big blockbusters.

And it was probably a combination. If there were Hollywood insiders that testified saying he did show up, He forgot lines, whatever. In terms of heard, maybe the Daily Mail article heard her. I think a large, I think most of the defamation was coming from people online. I actually was surprised that Times Up, the Hollywood movement for workplace harassment, focuses on workplace harassment, they didn't say anything. Well, she first was being represented by one of their attorneys, or Berta Kaplan. But then she stepped out.

She withdrew. And after she withdrew, she resigned from Times Up because of connections to Andrew Cuomo and that whole mess. But aside from that and her initial statement, which was that she believes heard, Times Up didn't really say anything throughout the trial. She still, Waldman was still found guilty of defaming somebody who alleged abuse. I think regardless of her guilty verdict, it was surprising to me that... Liable, ma'am. Yeah.

Sorry, it's the lawyer in me. No, no, fair enough. But, yeah, regardless of that, she, nobody said anything about the fact that she proved defamation on some level, and she alleged abuse and was defamed. And you would think times up would have something to say about that, that anybody who comes forward doesn't deserve this complete wave of, like, destruction. Well, unlike the movies, sometimes the real life just doesn't, there's too much gray. It's not black, white.

It's just there's too much. It's a really complicated case. It's not an easy case, and people have strong opinions on it either way, and I'm sure people are going to have strong opinions on it as time goes on, and we all reflect on it. So we'll say, we'll see what happens. Leah, it'll be entertainment reporter from Media. Thanks for coming on.

I appreciate it. Thank you. All right, everybody. So if you want to continue to support us here at Sidebar, please make sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time.

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