Law&Crime Sidebar - Woman Accused of Stabbing 3-Year-Old and Mom Smiles, Giggles in Court

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

Three-year-old Julian Wood and his mother Margot were in the parking lot of an Ohio grocery store when Bionca Ellis, 32, allegedly attacked them with a knife. Julian was severely wounded and died at the hospital. His mom is expected to survive. During her arraignment, Ellis refused to cooperate via video stream, so the judge brought her into the courtroom to hear the 10 charges against her. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber analyzes Ellis’s bizarre courtroom behavior with Ohio trial attorney Diane Menashe.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you’ve used Incognito mode in Google’s Chrome browser, find out if you have a claim in a few clicks by visiting: https://www.incognitoclaims.com/sidebar/?v=sb46HOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerScript Writing & Producing - Savannah WilliamsonGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. We heard the screams in the parking lot as we were parking or walking to our car and we saw the kid. Just do whatever you can to keep this monster kind of us. It is a crime so horrific that it's hard to put into words. The mother and her three-year-old son who were viciously attacked in a grocery store parking lot in the middle of the day. The boy didn't survive his devastating stab wounds. Police say they caught the alleged killer just minutes later with the knife still in her hand.

We're discussing Bianca Ellis's arrest and bizarre arraignment with criminal defense lawyer Diane Manashi. Welcome to Cybar, presented by Law and Crum. I'm Jesse Weber. Hey, everybody, this is a law and crime legal alert. Google Incognito tracked users browsing data without their knowledge. Yep, while Mass Tort Alliance, one of our legal sponsors, is helping users file for compensation due to Google users' privacy issues surrounding Google Incognito. So if you've used Google Incognito any time since 2016, you can start your claim in less

than 10 questions. just go to incognito claims.com slash sidebar. Well, you may have heard by now about this little boy who was butchered outside of an Ohio supermarket as his mother tried desperately to stop this apparently unprovoked attack. It is absolutely horrible. And there is a new video from an Ohio courtroom that shows the accused killer Bianca Ellis appearing to have absolutely no remorse for her action. 38-year-old Margo Wood and her three-year-old son, Julian,

were leaving the Great Eagles supermarket in North Olmstead, Ohio. This is outside of Cleveland. It was just the middle of the afternoon on Monday, June 3rd. Margot was loading groceries in the back of her car. Julian was sitting in the car, and police have said that this appeared to be a random act of violence and that Ellis had no contact with Julian and his mom prior to this stabbing, which makes it just all the more eerie.

There is graphic and disturbing 911 phone calls that started to come in to dispatch where you get a better sense of what was going on. 911, what is your emergency? There's a lady with a knife stabbing somebody in the north. Where? She's stabbing somebody? She's stabbing. North Olsen units start responding to Northland's a giant eagle. We have several calls with somebody with a knife trying to stab people.

Do you have a description of her? Yeah, she's a black female. We got eyes on her. She's walking towards Lorraine. Okay. She's outside now? She's outside walking. Okay.

This is going to be a black female walking towards the rain road with a knife. Black female with a black shirt, black lugging. All black? Is anybody injured? Yeah, somebody's injured. I think a kid looks stabbed in the mother's baby. Okay, hold on a minute. Ma'am, don't hang up the phone.

I'm just going to keep you on. Hold, I've got an ambulance setting there, okay? CPR is in progress is per one caller and you're not injured I am not injured we heard the screams in the parking lot as we were parking or walking to our car and we saw the kid yes now before the attack Ellis was allegedly seen on surveillance video outside of a thrift store holding the knife that police believe was used in that attack North Olmsted detectives say that Ellis was inside the volunteers of America thrift store where she took the knife so in addition to a litany of assault and murder charges, Ellis also faces a theft charge for allegedly

stealing that knife. Now, investigators say Ellis then allegedly spotted Julian and his mom inside the Great Eagle store, followed them into the parking lot, this all before the vicious stabbing. Body cam video from police on the scene just shows how absolutely chaotic this was. 5212, I'm behind Medic 51. Medic, come in here and relieve him. Yeah, my back. Medic, come in and relieve him up and test compresses. You got to take us back?

You got this. Get him on out. Go take it to a car right now. Hey, somebody go get him on. He doesn't you see this. Ready? Are you here? Are you on?

Are you in there, boarding? Where are you sitting? Okay. We need a second. Okay. We need second. If you need a nice for that? Yeah, we have a .

I have a . If you saw this come to me, if you guys are clear the area. If you saw this come to me, if you guys have nothing to do with this, go ahead and go home. Thank you very much. You saw this? You mean you were sitting right over there. We heard her streaming instinct right now. So you didn't see the actual crime?

You didn't see the actual crime? Very much. Okay. And the body cameras also caught the heartbreaking moment when Jared Wood, the boy's father, arrived in the parking lot. He's that your sign? Yes, Ken. Okay, come here. We're going to have somebody take you to the hospital, all right?

Okay, we're going to have you take the hospital, okay? I'm parked at. You can leave your car over there. Where's your keys at? I have my keys right here. Where's your car? I'm taking it. There's parked facing this way.

Yeah, I'll be right there. I'll get your keys, so you don't worry about it. Witnesses recounted to officers what they say they saw. happened. And just stabbed. She said anything? No, I didn't hear anything. I had my windows. I didn't hear anything. All I heard was just screaming and the lady grabbed their child up out of the cart and that's when it fell over and they collapsed over here and the lady just continued to walk off. And that's when everybody just kind of came out of nowhere. Yeah. And I got out with one guy. He said, what happened? I said, I don't know. I'm going to go look. I came about halfway and I saw her trying

to get away. So I hopped in the car and chased her down. Okay. Um, to almost where the white building is. Yeah. Um, that's what I call 911, 1-1. And, um, like literally 30 seconds later you guys showed up. Okay. All right, cool. So the kid was in a car, in the car? Yeah. Okay. So from there, police hopped at a cruiser. They took off after the alleged attacker. They quickly found her. She lay on the ground while they arrested her. On the radio, you can still hear the chaos over at the grocery store. Where's your cuff? Who's that cuff?

Slow down, slow down. We're good. All right. Ted, you'll be to go to the female or giant eagle? Go to the female. Hey. He's in the first three roads farthest north. Copy, I will be up.

You got a med kit? Okay. You're all around the side? He's good. Who's got a mic at him? We're going to get her up. Are we have a female helicopter? Are you bleeding on your hurry anywhere?

Nice right there. Okay. Okay. Let's get her up. Here you go, man. Pull the you up, okay? Grab your other arm. there we do we're gonna lift you up okay one two three stand up please stand up come on

en route 14 is in round all right let's corner back in the car hang i'm gonna check her right here let's go on gyne eagle okay let's fire's the distance one we're going to the lot you good with that yeah walk her back this way 52 l03 i got three units 1719 myself that charide eagle In the parking lot, sort of aisle. This got EMS coming. We don't have anything here we're in. Maitro, out of the parking lot.

We're out of the parking lot. So what happened? Margo Wood was stabbed in the shoulder, expected to survive. Julian was stabbed multiple times in the head in the chest. He died at the hospital. Bianca Ellis was indicted on charges of aggravated murder, murder, attempted murder, felonious assault, endangering children.

tampering with evidence, misdemeanor theft. Arraignment was originally scheduled to be later this month, but that date was quickly changed to June 10th. In fact, the court record states, quote, defendant is ordered to be brought to the arraignment courtroom on Monday, June 10th, 2024 for arraignment by any means necessary. So clearly a lot to talk about in this case. And right now I want to bring on a special guest to talk about this. What is a really strange court proceeding, which we'll get into as well. Let me bring in Diane Manashi. She is a trial attorney in Ohio. Diane, so good to see you. It's been a minute since we have a chance to talk. Unfortunately, these are the circumstances.

Before we even get into all of the legal components of it, what is just your overall reaction when you heard about this because this is from your home state? Good morning. Good to be here. It certainly seems on its face to be a mental health case, right? Just the sort of the randomness of the attack using a knife is often indicative of a mental health case. And I think we're about to watch, or certainly, Jesse, you're about to talk about her appearance at her initial arraignment. I mean, she even just her facial reaction, her blanketness, and then the reactions that she does have, the answers that she gave to the court, certainly indicative of a larger issue of mental health. Right. Well, let's get into that. So I want to play some clips from Ellis's arraignment in the Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court. Ellis first appeared on video for the hearing, but didn't seem like she wanted to cooperate. Let's take a look. Good morning, Your Honor. Ashland

Kara on behalf of Ms. Ellis. We would like... Excuse me. I'm going to ask for the questions. Oh, sure. Ms. Alice? Ms. Alice. Ms. Alice? Yes, Ms. Alice. Please raise your head. Where that's coming from? I just need to ask you a few questions. I need to make sure you understand them. Do you have an attorney? I'm looking for one. Okay. Do you have the money or means to hire an attorney?

Repeat that. Do you have the money or means to hire an attorney? Possible. Okay. Have you received and read your indictment? I don't know. You don't know if you're not. received it have you received it have you had you received it

ma'am just tell me whether or not you've received it please miss ellis we'll be out here in a few minutes just answer these questions miss alice have you received your indictment? What was her name? Ms. Ellis? What was her name? What's the judge name? Rousseau.

Rousseau? That's right. Rousseau with an R? Have you received and read your indictment? Yes or no? If you haven't received it, I'm going to send it over there, so you need to tell me that. Ms. Ellis. Why don't you want to answer these questions?

All right, we'll come back to it when she's ready to talk to you. Your Honor, could I just let the court know our office does represent Ms. Ellis on another case and there are some mental health issues and I do believe they have been. I'll come back to her. Do you understand on the indictment that the state is reserved for rights at the death penalty? Do you understand that? Have you read that? ASAP? What's ASAP?

What's video court? Your Honor, we would like to enter a not guilty plea for Ms. Ellis. We would like to waive a reading of the charges. is waive any defects in time or manner of service. As I said, our office has reached out to the jail to get mental health services for Ms. Ellis. They were working with her on a previous case and our social worker has gotten involved.

So we would like to ask that counsel be appointed and that the public defender's office be one of those two attorneys and ask for a reasonable bond. Yes, you received the indictment. Have you discussed it with her? I personally have not, but I do know attorneys from my office did go see her last week and that there were some notable mental health issues.

Did they go with the indictment? That I don't know. Well, then how am I expected to a raider? I would like to waive that time period for her. This could be a capital order case. I don't think that's appropriate. So if somebody wants to go over here now and go over with her, I'll hold it.

So send somebody over there. I'll reach out to the office. Okay, we'll come back. So Diane, your initial impression because it seems like the judge really wants to make sure that Ellis understands what's going on here. Absolutely. Particularly, as the judge has said, this could be a capital case. You know, in Ohio, given the age of the victim, it does meet one of the aggravating circumstances under the statute for which the state could seek the death penalty. And it's even clear from the audio and the video of

that hearing that the state has already elected or reserved the right to later seek the death penalty. So I think the judge is just being very cautious in making sure that she's been read the indictment and if she waves reading that she's first been given the opportunity to either read it or have it read to her. So we're going to play more clips. But before I do, people will look at this and say she's playing with the court. She's in what we say in the legal term, in the legal community, malingering, you know, faking what's going on. But you heard her attorney say there's some serious mental health issues. What's your initial impression of seeing her behavior on that? You know, and as I listened to it, I certainly know, as you've just said, a lot of people are like,

oh, she's just malingering. You know, she's trying to tee this up, if you will, to be a mental health case. I would say actually that hearing her and the delays in her pause, it actually doesn't seem as if she's malingering. She's literally not comprehending. I think there's certainly a difference there. Also, interestingly, Jesse, the public defender indicates that they really, represent her on another matter. I looked at the docket last night.

There are no other pending cases against her in Cuyahoga. And interestingly, she has no cases whatsoever on the clerk of court site under her name. So if this is her first sort of, you know, experience in the criminal justice system and it's an add mental health to that, it could really be just a comprehension issue. So I want you to pause that because we looked into

reporting about her past criminal history. And it is something. So we'll get to that in a minute. Before we do, after those attempts to reign Ellis virtually, the judge had opted to have Ellis brought to the courtroom so they could kind of straighten out whether Ellis actually had seen and read and understood that lengthy indictment against her. And when Ellis answered the judge's questions, she kind of whispered. Let's watch. Hello, Ms. Ellis. Do you have an attorney? You do? Do you have the money or means to hire an attorney? Have you received your indictment?

Have you read it? You have not read it, okay? We have a copy here. You can read it? You don't want to read it. Are you willing to accept that the public defender has read it to you? I'm sorry. you asked her not to well but she did read it to you correct she didn't read it to you

okay well we can read it in open court now before we get into that the judge ended up reading the indictment and our youtube viewers i'm going to show you this i want you to watch ellis's face because they say she appears to laugh at what's going on take a listen to 10 count indictment, count one alleges that honor about June 3rd, 2024. The defendant did purposely and with prior calculation and design caused the death of JW 1029, 2020. The state of Ohio reserves the right to seek a superseding indictment containing the appropriate 2929.04A aggravating circumstances specifications. And so you understand that means the state is reserving its right to add a death penalty specification. Count two alleges that on or about June 3rd, 2024, that the defendant

did purposely cause the death of J.W. 1029, 2020. Count three alleges that on or about June 3rd, 24, the defendant did cause the death of J.W. date of birth 1029, 2020, as approximate result of the offender committing or attempting to commit an offense of violence that is a felony of the first second degree to wit felonious assault a high revised code section 2903.1a1 and or endangering children in violation of a harry vice code section 29192b2 count four alleges at honor about june 3rd 2024 the defendant did knowingly cause serious physical harm to j w on 1029 2020 alleges that honor about June 3rd, 2024, the defendant did torture or cruelly abused JW date of birth 1029, 2020, a child under 18 years of age. And furthermore, the violation

resulted in serious physical harm to JW, date of birth 1029, 2020. She's talking about this three-year-old boy. You can see why people are very bothered by Ellis's behavior. What's your take on it? Not to play quarterback psychologist here, Jesse, but we do know from the DSM that inappropriate laughter is a symptom of bipolar disorder. It's a symptom that she's actually in a manic episode. And so when I saw that and her reaction at that moment, which clearly inappropriate at that time and place, it seems just symptomatic of exactly what we've been talking about, is this larger mental health issue and specifically bipolar disorder, which can have these highs and lows

and associated with it. Are we talking potentially, and again, this is kind of maybe premature, are we talking in the insanity defense here? Because, again, we'll keep in mind some things I'm about to share with you about her past, but is that what we're talking about potentially? You know, I think based on what I've seen,

certainly her attorneys, I would anticipate, we'll explore an NGRI case, an insanity defense, and also certainly just a competency, too, whether or not she's competent to assist in her own defense. Even competent to stand trial, understanding what the charges, understanding the whole process. So during all this, Jared Wood, Julian's father, who I mentioned was at the scene before,

he's standing in the back of the courtroom. You can feel the tension. I can't imagine the self-control that he had. He was allowed to make a short statement to the court. I have now read the indictment to you. Do you wish to enter a plea is not guilty? Thank you. Pardon me?

What's saying me? Yes or no? Yes. Okay. I understand the victims are represented and they want to make a comment before I set by. Is that true? Yes, sir. Okay. Okay. Good morning, sir. Good morning, sir. Could you start with your name? My name is Jared Wood.

father of the feast, husband of Margo, Your Honor, that day one week ago, she took everything from us. There's nothing that could ever replace my son or anything that my wife and I, even our other kids, are going through. It's horrendous. I really wish no bail period or extend it to the max limit possible by that you can at the very least just do whatever you can to keep this monster behind bars thank you sir is there anything else you would like to say

that'll be it thank you your honor thank you it's incredibly heartbreaking think about how he can even just stand there the judge finished up the hearing sending Ellis back to jail on a $5 million bond. Is there anything else before I pronounced bond? Your Honor, we would just ask that you consider assigned the public defender's office recognizing this is not our number. We did represent her at the first appearance unit.

I did meet with her on Friday. We have had contact with her family and begun working on the case. Thank you, Your Honor. When the original bond was set out of the union court, the bomb was set at $1 million, and it was before the passing of one of the alleged victims. I do not believe that bond is appropriate given the change in circumstances and the allegations that are contained in this indictment. Bonn has said of $5 million, cash surety or property. GPS, no contact with any surviving victim or victim's

family, DNA order. Judges John Russo, pretrial's June 17 at 9 a.m. All of sign counsel. Thank you, John. Thank you, Your Honor. Diane, right decision? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, she's indigent. She was found indigent after the hearing, so she doesn't have the ability to pay for counsel. So really a $1 million bond is as good as a $5 million bond in this case because in Ohio, you post 10%. But absolutely the right decision, particularly given that the state has noticed, it could be a capital case. Five million dollars is certainly not out of the norm and it seems appropriate. Now, before we even get into her history, because this is pretty shocking, just going back to the potential defense in this case, with insanity, she would have to establish that she really couldn't perceive right and wrong here and that she couldn't appreciate her actions. Do you think that's a tough bar, but based on what you've seen so far in this case, you think

there could be something to explore there? Certainly something to explore and something that might. must be explored by her defense counsel, just given what we already know and the nature of the facts. But I have to tell you, Jesse, incredibly high bar to me. You know, I've 26 years and I've done over 40 capital cases. And literally in one capital case, I've had a successful NGRI defense, just incredibly hard.

Certainly competency, you know, whether she's able to assist in her own defense and understand the nature and objectives of the proceedings, lower bar. Of course, though, Jesse, as you know, that restoration piece, if she's found not competent, you know, then she would be sent to a psych facility and they would try to restore her to competency. But NGRI, insanity defense, such a high bar. I just have to bring that up because it seems to me, given the surveillance footage,

given her surviving witness, given potential other witnesses, other defenses might be kind of limited here to say she didn't commit the crime. But now I want to walk you through something. So stay with me here about what led to this incident. And this is, I want you to tell me if all taking everything is true, if this is a failure of the justice system. Let me talk about it. So Ellis claims that she has killed before. According to police documents, Ellis had a warrant for violating her probation. This was out of Rocky River Municipal Court out in Ohio.

It was related to a May 2023 theft charge. Somehow she ended up in California where Kern County deputies issued warrants for her back in February because she was accused. of three counts of battery on a person. Despite that, she came back to Ohio. She ended up in a women's shelter. An official at that shelter called Cleveland Police because Ellis said she wanted to confess to murdering someone in Bakersfield.

Now, according to the report, quote, she states the victim was a white female approximately 5, 6, 150 pounds, in that she was a bartender who worked at a bar. Ellis claimed that she dumped the body in an unknown area and she wasn't sure if anyone had ever found it. Now, you might be saying, oh, maybe she's making this up. Well, apparently, police out in Bakersfield, California said they had some unsolved homicides that may match up to what Ellis described. But there wasn't enough to arrest her, name her as a suspect, and they weren't going to go to Ohio, travel to Ohio, to pick her up on those battery charges.

So, the Cleveland police report also stated that Bianca had told officers if she was not taken to jail, she was, quote, going to murder someone at the shelter, and that she also said she wanted to kill someone and eat their flesh. Now, apparently, North Olmstead police refused to pick her up on that probation violation warrant. So what ended up happening? Well, at this point, Cleveland police took Ellis to a hospital for mental health evaluation, and apparently she had been sedated after fighting with the staff. It's not clear how long she was in that hospital. But not long after that, she finds herself in Florida. She's arrested for refusing to leave a hotel. She made her way back to Ohio after getting out of jail. Comes back to Ohio

where she reportedly was arrested just days before this attack on the woods. A judge released her and said he didn't have enough reason to believe that she was in danger, no reason to really keep her held up. And then she allegedly commits this horrific attack on a three-year-old and his mother. Is this a failure, Diane? Yes, it's a failure, but I think there's some context to add to it. One of the things really sticks out to me is she's on probation for a misdemeanor offense, right? Municipal court here is misdemeanor level offenses. So she's not on probation for a felony fence, which does take a different sort of light to the question about, is it a failure? What I have to tell you is I think it's a failure of just basically an understanding

of mental health. And that's even true in our criminal justice system. And what you've just talked about is a prime example of that, that's super aggressive behavior, that manic back and forth, the traveling, those sort of statements that she's making that are the grandiosity of I've killed someone, you know, I put them here, I've done this. I mean, that's all indicative of severe, you know, manic episode of bipolar. What I think, though, Jesse is one of the things the court probably considered that we aren't hearing about yet is what that assessment that she had or that inpatient treatment that she had, you know, what was the outcome of that, right?

Did she leave properly medicated? Was she supposed to be continuing her medication? We could presume yes. Of course, we know that, you know, someone with mental health is dependent on their medication and should they stop taking it. Well, I mean, that's a real issue. But yes, it's a failure. But I think there's some context to add to it. I think it's just such an understanding by our country, our criminal justice system, everyone about the severity of mental health.

And real quick, Diane, do you think that this is a case where her attorneys would try to work out a deal, you know, life in prison as opposed to, you know, the death penalty? Certainly, if they aren't able to do an insanity defense, then absolutely. Under Ohio law right now, aggravated murder is life in prison without the possibility of parole. There's no other sentencing option for ag murder here right now. So if they do ultimately indict her for the death penalty, I would absolutely presume, based on the facts of the case, that her attorneys will try to work out a plea, just as you've described. Let me wrap all this up by not focusing so much on Ellis, but now focusing on Julian. There is a GoFundMe page for Julian.

It's raised more than $260,000. The funeral was held over the weekend with a procession that the organizer is called a memory line. The family asked for people to wear the color green and dinosaurs, which is Julian's favorite. Really, really sad, horrible case. Diane Manashi, thank you so much for coming on, breaking down the law with us, giving some context to it. We'll continue to follow it, but thank you so much. Thank you.

All right, everybody, that's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar. Thank you so much for joining us. As always, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time. You can binge all episodes of this law and crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.