Law&Crime Sidebar - Woman Accusing Former ‘SNL’ Star of Sexual Assault Claims Jimmy Fallon, Others Enabled Him

Episode Date: August 25, 2022

A woman already suing former SNL actor Horatio Sanz over her claims of sexual assault when she was a teenager, files an amended complaint asking to add show founder, Lorne Michaels and SNL alums Tracy Morgan and Jimmy Fallon to her lawsuit. “Jane Doe” claims she started attending SNL after parties when she was a teenager and that Sanz groomed and assaulted her. Law&Crime’s Angenette Levy and entertainment lawyer Mitra Ahouraian discuss why Jane Doe wants alleged witnesses added to the suit.GUESTS:Mitra Ahouraian, Entertainment Lawyer: https://twitter.com/MitraEsqLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokePodcasting - Sam GoldbergVideo Editing - Michael DeiningerGuest Booking - Alyssa FisherSocial Media Management - Kiera BronsonSUBSCRIBE TO OUR OTHER PODCASTS:Court JunkieObjectionsThey Walk Among AmericaCoptales and CocktailsThe Disturbing TruthSpeaking FreelyLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist? The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. A woman already suing former SNL star Horatio Sands for sexual assault has filed an amended complaint asking to add Jimmy Fallon, Lorne Michaels, and Tracy Morgan as defendants. So what does this mean for the show and all four of these men? I'm Ann Jeanette Levy and welcome to this latest edition of Law and Crimes Sidebar podcast. Well, Horatio Sands is being sued by a woman who was a teenager back in 2001, 2002, and she had accused him of doing some things at after parties for Saturday Night Live that were of a sexual nature. She was younger than 17 during one of these

incidents and it's really a disturbing allegation. So joining us to talk about this is entertainment attorney Mitra Ahorian. Mitra, welcome back to Sidebar. Thanks for coming on. Thank you, Ingena. Good to be here as always. Yes, good to see you again. Your thoughts on this woman, the Jane Doe, we don't know her name, but she's named Jane Doe or goes by Jane Doe in the complaint seeking to add Lorne Michaels, who created Saturday Night Live back in the mid-70s. And then, of course, Jimmy Fallon, who started his career there. and Tracy Morgan, who was on SNL for years and also is now an actor and comedian taking part in other projects. Yeah, it's really interesting because this case sort of opens the conversation

about whether other people can be held accountable for witnessing sexual abuse and sort of inappropriate sexual behavior by virtue of the fact that they enabled it and, you know, didn't say anything about it. Her amended complaint sets out in very, very, very detail about everything that happened all the times that she, everyone knew she was underage. There's sort of no question about that because she had many conversations about her age. She had this fan page that everyone knew about, you know, all sort of the big players at NBC because she had developed quite a reputation. And so the discussion now is can these other people be held accountable and can people

in general be held accountable for other people's sexual behaviors? I want to talk about the fact that she said that this was going on not only when she was 17, but as early as 15. I mean, it was the year 2000 is when she says that this started. There's some disturbing allegations. I mean, there's talk of digital penetration by Horatio Sands. This is the allegation. Also, the fact that the other's witnesses, they saw it going on.

And I have no doubt in my mind that SML has probably had some wild after parties. I mean, we know that there are people who, been on SNL, who've had issues with substances and things like that. So, but just because there were parties where substances were being abused or used doesn't mean automatically that they're guilty of some type of sex assault. Right. So, you know, this, this raises the question of whether an employer has a duty of care to attendees at their, you know, at their parties or at their events. And the first question is, you know, how much of was this, were these parties actually thrown by NBC? Certainly they were endorsed to some degree. But, you know, Horatio talks about

the fact that finding the venue was sort of part of his job. Now, I don't know if that's his interpretation or if NBC actually, you know, if this was an official SNL event, which I think we'll play some role in whether they have some accountability because certainly if this happened at work, then that's something that they do have a duty to protect against people, particularly children, something like this happening. And this woman at one point was obviously a 15-year-old girl. She said she was a fan of the show, it sounds like, when she was at one of these parties. And then things evolved from there.

NBC has already tried to have this suit dismissed before. And they're going to try again to have the suit dismissed. A spokesperson has told a variety. So I don't know. It's an interesting question because these people or network like NBC obviously has insurance. So if it was an NBC sanction party or an SNL party that's under the umbrella of NBC, I guess it is possible they could bear some responsibility or their insurance company or something like that at the time. Yeah, one of the things that the complaint does raise is that NBC sort of fostered this culture of not treating women well, treating women as sort of sexual objects and that being okay. I think in the comedy space, we've also seen a lot of pressure on female comedians to

sort of be a bit vulgar as part of their comedy. Not, you know, obviously not women, but there are women who kind of feel that that's the way to get a lap. The SNL environment was known for being wild. There are statements made by multiple people who are, you know, in the cast, who were interns, other employees. It was, you know, these were wild parties known in New York and celebrities were there and, you know, underage drinking took place, which is not unusual anyone who's lived in a big city knows this it's not unusual to have underage girls but I think that where that line is drawn is really the safety of the children that are there I mean it's kind of hard to think of you know the fact that a 15 year old is a child and a 15 year old

is I was just thinking about that is a child I'm thinking about the neighbors down the street one's 13 another is 12 15 not that far away from that. So I'm thinking, you know, you're a kid, even though you turn 18 and you're technically an adult, in a lot of ways you're still immature and you're not really an adult, even though you're legally an adult. One of the quotes that kind of kicks off this amended complaint, Mitra, is kind of shocking. It's quotes Tracy Morgan, who was at apparently this party where this woman, who is now much older, obviously, but at the time was 17. Tracy Morgan is quoted as saying about this party.

They put a stage in it. They put a few futons all around and they get strippers and girls to come and do shows. You'd walk in there and he describes oral sex taking place. There was usually some other sex going on and there was liquor and couches everywhere. I'm cleaning that up. I'm not using the actual verbiage that's in the quote. But that really does paint a picture. If Tracy Morgan said that and that's what was actually going on and he wasn't just

being, you know, sarcastic or what have you, that really does paint a kind of a disturbing picture, especially if there were teenage underage girls there. Yeah, I mean, I think two things really make this, you know, cross the line. There are certainly parties like that that happen among consensual adults. There are certainly, you know, in people's homes, other venues. But the two things that really make everyone wonder whether this is okay is the fact that there were underage girls there, that that was encouraged and ignored, that alcohol was served to them, and also that this was potentially endorsed by the employers. So I think those two things really distinguish this from parties like that that perhaps happen all the time.

And what I find interesting as well is that Jane Doe, apparently, according to this complaint, kept a log of who was at the shows that she attended, who hosted. who the guest was. It's in the complaint, and it's written in there from October 7th and 8th, 2000, through May of 2002. I mean, she's got everything documented. I don't know. Obviously, she's got a lot of details about the allegations she's making as well. What does this mean for their careers? I mean, we're talking about it here on Sidebar. Jimmy Fallon hosts the Tonight Show, you know, the obvious area parent to Johnny Carson, or Jay Leno, I should say, not Johnny Carson, but Jay Leno. So, So Jimmy Fallon's a big name. He's on TV every night. He's in people's homes. Lorne Michaels still runs the show at SNL. So what does this mean for them? Yeah, I mean, certainly if they are found accountable, then that would have a huge impact on their case. And, you know, we have seen time and again sort of this cancel culture of our celebrities who are involved in these sorts of scandals. And I don't know that that's going to be the ruling in this case. I think that they're

will certainly be a taint, even if they are found not to be responsible. But if they are found not to be responsible, they'll probably continue going on about their business. But if there is some responsibility here, I think that that would change everything. What I think is interesting to you bring up the cancel culture. But obviously, you know, an allegation can lead to somebody being canceled. Just simply the allegation that we've seen it happen many times. And so there's no, there's no due process anymore in some respects in Hollywood. I mean, this just destroys you. And obviously New York's not in Hollywood, but it's all show business. So does anything come of it before the suit proceeds? Because Lorne Michaels is a huge name. He's a famous guy. I mean, he, everybody

knows who he is, especially if you watch SNL. And Jimmy Fallon, as I mentioned, was he's in your home every night. So do you see repercussions coming from this just because of the allegation itself? Certainly there's a taint people will be questioning, but I do think that there is a distinction between having been there and perhaps known versus being active in the sexual abuse and maybe covering it up. I think there's a distinction there. And I think that the public is probably a lot more willing to allow for a due process when we're looking at sort of these ancillary characters in the process, I think a lot less for the person that is grooming a child that has this inappropriate relationship that goes on for years. He said that in the early days when he was

just messaging her on, I think it was AOL at the time, but when he was messaging her inappropriately when she was like 15, he admitted later, many years later, when she no longer had a relationship that he was masturbating during those calls or during those texts and stuff, which is really awful. And she said, wow, I had no idea. She was so young and innocent that she had no idea that that was happening. She was just excited to be getting attention from a celebrity and some of her idols on a show that she aspired to be a part of at some point. This is a really detailed amended complaint that we've been reading through. And one of the things that I find is interesting in it is that it recalls or recounts other like female cast members of S&L.

Jane Curtin, Julia Louise Dreyfus, a lot of Julia Louise Dreyfus, a bunch of female former or cast members who described a sexist culture at S&L, that this was really more of a boys club. We have Lorne Michaels quoted in bullet point number 33 saying that the S&L after parties quickly became the coolest, wildest, most important show business parties in the city. That would be in New York City. So there's a lot in here. We could go through it probably for hours if we wanted to, but it doesn't sound very good. So what do you see happening with this?

I mean, if the suit is not dismissed as NBC wants it to be, do they go through depositions in the whole nine yards? I mean, does this actually go to trial? I can't imagine that NBC or Lorne Michaels or Jimmy Fallon would want this to go to trial. And I do want to say Horatio Sanz's lawyer, Andrew Brettler, who's a famous lawyer in Hollywood, denies that this is, that this happened. I think that there is quite a bit of evidence. I think there are certainly witnesses. The tricky thing is that, you know, this is in the early 2000s, right? So it's now been over a decade. You know, as we've talked about before and as the New York sort of has these look back window over the past two years have allowed victims of child sex abuse to bring lawsuits within this two year period, even if the statute has passed. So she was able to file this. lawsuit much, you know, years later, but the challenge, of course, with crimes that happen years later is really finding those witnesses. Luckily, she did a great job of having, you know, she's somebody who journals. So she's got her journal. She's got, you know, there are other

witnesses that she is still able to talk to, some of her former friends. But if this, you know, if NBC is found to be responsible and certainly some of the quotes you said, it really sounds like the parties were at the very least endorsed, even if they weren't thrown officially by NBC and were officially a work party, so to speak, I think certainly the argument that there was an endorsement can be made and that gets tricky. You can now, as an employer, be responsible for the crimes of people or your employees or others. At parties that you endorse, does that create a liability? I think that creates a really interesting conversation and can open the door to a lot of lawsuits. That makes me think about, and I've discussed this with people before, I remember years

ago, a lot of companies stopped having holiday parties because there was liability, possible liability if people were driving home drunk from these parties and things of that nature. So it seems to me that possibly a company could be held liable. Yeah, it's certainly in line with that. You know, drunk driving is certainly a crime, but this seems to really cross many, many, many lines. and, you know, we take sexual assault of children, you know, very seriously. And this is something that impacted her life for years, even today. If you see, you know, sort of like the decline of her mental and emotional state and the shame she experienced after this thinking that, you know, this was all of this that happened

was her fault. At that age, you think you know everything, but really you don't and you don't have enough life experience to know that people have bad intentions sometimes. And for all intents and purposes, people thought that they were a couple. The way that people described their relationship was sort of sounded like they were a couple. So certainly people witnessed that. The detail in this complaint is really something. And what she describes does sound like grooming.

Again, Horatio Sands denies this through his attorney, Andrew Brettler. But there is a lot of detail in this. And this girl started going to the show in the standby line. She was a fan. She obviously was enamored with these people, the actors acknowledging her. So it'll be interesting to see what comes of this. And we'll keep an eye on it for sure. Mitra Ahorian, as always, thank you so much for coming on sidebar.

We appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks, Internet. And that's it for this edition of Law and Crime Sidebar podcast. It is produced by Sam Goldberg and Michael Dininger. Bobby Zoki is our YouTube manager. Alyssa Fisher is our booking producer. And Kira Bronson handles our social media.

You can listen to Sidebar on Apple, Spotify, Google, and wherever else you get your podcast. And of course, you can watch it on Law and Crimes YouTube channel. I'm Ann Janette Levy, and we'll see you next time. You can binge all episodes of this Law and Crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. or Spotify.