Law&Crime Sidebar - WWE Wrestler Murdered by Ex-Wife, New Lover Just 3 Days After Divorce: Cops

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

Two arrests have been made in the shooting death of former WWE NXT star Knuckles Madsen, whose real name is Kevin Nikel. His ex-wife, Amanda Penny, and her new boyfriend, Michael Hogue, are accused of plotting together to kill him. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber breaks down the two wildly competing narratives, as well as the charges and possibility of bail with victim’s rights lawyer John Phillips.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Use code SIDEBAR20 to get a 20% OFF discount directly on Plaud products in the links below. This is the biggest discount of the year—save on your BFCM shopping now! @PlaudAI- Plaud Website: https://bit.ly/4ohxpFe- Plaud Amazon: https://amzn.to/4lG76aO#blackFriday #BFCM #PlaudHOST:Jesse Weber: https://twitter.com/jessecordweberLAW&CRIME SIDEBAR PRODUCTION:YouTube Management - Bobby SzokeVideo Editing - Michael Deininger, Christina O'Shea, Alex Ciccarone, & Jay CruzScript Writing & Producing - Savannah Williamson & Juliana BattagliaGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Two arrests have officially been made in connection with the shooting death of former W.W.E. NXT. wrestler Knuckles Madsen. We are laying out competing versions of what authorities say happened versus what the suspects say happened. But it may be what the victim allegedly said right before he died that may decide this whole case. Welcome to Sidebar presented by law and crime. I'm Jesse Weber. By the way, before we get into this more, I got to ask something. It just happened to me the other day. Have you ever been in a meeting? And at the end of it, after 30 minutes after an hour, you say to yourself, what do we just talk about for that?

Like, what do we decide? If so, if you're like me, I got to tell you about this. Okay, the plot, no pen. This tiny AI power device, it is more than just a recorder. It is like a hands-free AI secretary that you can carry with you every day. meetings, interviews, brainstorms, the no-pin doesn't just catch everything. It also identifies key points, it expands into summaries, it delivers role-specific action items to keep your whole team aligned. And the best feature, I think, ask Plaud. Because instead of going through all these hours of notes, you can ask it to hunt for answers. Like, hey, Plaud, what hot trials did we talk about covering next year?

And Plaud will pull up that conversation. So if you're over messy notes, it's time to try Plaud No Pin right now. You can get 20% off with code sidebar 20. click the link below or scan the QR code. Former WWNXT superstar Knuckles Madsen was shot to death over the summer. He was found along Highway 12 in Benton County, Arkansas. This is back on July 11th, suffering from a gunshot wound to the stomach. He was rushed to the hospital, but he died.

The 41-year-old professional wrestler, real name Kevin Nicol, wrestled in the WWE NXT between 2012 and 2013. This is kind of like a training ground for the performers before they fully make their way to the main stage of the W.W.E. roster. From there, he wrestled in Ozark Mountain Wrestling under the name Ivan Warsaw. Apparently owned it. This was a horrible, horrible situation with no arrest for quite some time, leaving his eight-year-old son without a father. But now, the U.S. Marshal Service announced two people have been arrested. So while the Benton County Sheriff's Office took the lead in this case, it was the United States Marshal Service that was brought in for the

warrants. The warrants of Michael Hogue, 51 years old, He was arrested in Fort Smith and 40-year-old Amanda Penny arrested in Rogers. Hogue facing a first-degree murder charge, Penny facing accomplice to first-degree murder, and they both face firearm possession charges. Now, do you know who Penny is? Penny is Kevin's ex-wife, and Kevin was killed, get this, three days after their divorce was finalized. They were married for reportedly 13 years, even apparently high school sweethearts. They met in 2010, got married in 2012.

Hogue is apparently, by the way, Penny's new boyfriend, and authorities think he's the trigger man, so hence the slight disparity in the charges, and we're going to talk about them. But when it came to their divorce, Kevin's mom, Susan Kinderman, told Five News that Penny was Kevin's first friend in high school. They got married, they were happy, but then they probably grew apart. As for Hogue, Kinderman said she doesn't know a lot about him, and by the sound of it, she has no interest in knowing more. Now, Hogue was granted $750,000 in bail, Penny, $500,000. the statements of the prosecuting attorney here and a probable cause affidavit, we are getting a lot more details about what authorities allege that led up to the shooting, what happened in the shooting,

how it may have all went down, what evidence they have against these two. And let me say this, there is one piece of potential evidence that you almost never get a dying declaration from the victim, an alleged dying declaration from the victim. Oh, and by the way, there is something about Penny that is happening right now that I got to say, honestly, I don't know how they can prosecute her right now. Let's talk about it. All right. Let me bring on John Phillips right now, Victims' Rights Lawyer, to get to the bottom of all this. So, John, thanks for coming on. I want to start with the charges. Why the difference here, right? Why is Hoag charged with murder and Penny as an accomplice? The prosecuting attorney, Josh Robinson, said the charge is

functionally the same. In Arkansas, it's a distinction without a difference. A person is always subject to accomplice liability, whether they're charged with it specifically or not. And the classification for the crime and the punishment is exactly the same as a primary. The affidavit indicates that the evidence shows that Michael is the one who pulled the trigger and that Amanda would have been working in concert with him when that crime was committed. Why the difference there? You know, prosecutors have indicated investigators that it's a distinction without a difference. But generally, what you're looking for first and who gets charged, you know, the highest

when you're dealing with an in-concert crime is the trigger person, the person who actually did the shooting, the stabbing, the killing. And then the co-conspirator kind of tucks under that person. And so I would assume here that Michael Hogue was kind of the main murderer, right, for lack of a better way to put it,

and the ex-spouse, Amanda Perry, would have been, you know, kind of conspiring with him to kill her very recent ex-husband. Yeah. And, you know, I'll say, I'll say this in every case, allegedly, but really allegedly here, because I am very interested in what the defense is and what their narrative of it is. But you're right. So when it comes to bail, prosecuting attorney Robinson indicated that the reason you see such high bail amounts, it wasn't just the strength of the case that was a factor and the potential punishment, so the risk of flight. But both of these individuals are apparently habitual offenders, have criminal histories. And Hogue has a particular past of violent activity. But here's the shocker John, came out in court yesterday. Apparently, Penny is seven months pregnant under the care of a doctor outside the Benton County Jail. How does this work? If you're pregnant in jail, going to be prosecuted, is there a delay that seems not to have an effect on the bail analysis? It's still a high bail, 500,000. For sure. You know, usually you wave

speedy trial when you're when you're you know seven months pregnant it kind of depends on the attorneys and how they want their client to present here i want as far away from that pregnancy as possible because it adds additional motive it adds additional well okay so you know now you've got this new family starting very dysfunctional but new family starting and it's unusual in these cases, first of all, I'm so tired of seeing divorce murders, right? Like, it just, it happens so often now. I mean, it's always happened, but just the reporting of these high profile crimes where a couple's divorcing and it ends in murder. I think somebody said along the way that divorce ends two ways in separation or death. But yeah, you certainly have grounds for a

continuance for a few months for her to get, you know, the baby born and in a good state. But again, that baby's going to be born in hospital facilities. And maybe given to the family or the state services. But if not, if it's not continued and she's in jail, I assume she gets certain services while awaiting trial. It's kind of unbelievable to be thinking about, but I guess that's the reality. There is something else I wanted your opinion on. So there's a lot more details I want to talk about.

But I'm just curious what you make of this statement. So while both Hogue and Penny's next court dates are set for January 5th, 2026, Prosecutor Robinson said, quote, my office will be doing a more thorough review of the file to make a formal charging decision. We always want to make sure that we have as much information as possible, so we're making the most informed decision. That's part of the reason the investigation took a while in the case was because of the thoroughness of the investigation, waiting on autopsy results and different search warrants and things like that. What does that mean to you? I'm not quite sure. You know, you and I are used to analyzing cases all over the country,

and sometimes it's hard to compare apples to grapefruit. And we're talking about a fairly small town in Arkansas with what has become a fairly high-profile murder case because of the decedent's affiliation with professional wrestling, right? He was a celebrity. And so a lot of times, and I hate to use the word podunk, but I'm going to go ahead and do it because I'm from the South and I'm allowed, you have fairly small town prosecutors that are thrown into the limelight and realize, uh-oh, you know, not only is my case going to be reported, but any mistakes I make are going to be reported too. So, and the trial. And so you, you want to, you want to extremely button up and make

sure you're doing your best effort when the world is essentially watching. Yeah. So it'll be interesting if the charges are upgraded or modified in some way, what that's going to look like. what they'll be formalized to be. But I want to get into these two different narratives here. What a potential defense is. So this is from reporting by Northwest Arkansas Democrat Gazette. And there are also more details from a probable cause affidavit. That's part of this case.

So on the day of the shooting, Kevin reported to a sheriff's deputy that Hogue had been around his son, that this is apparently a violation of the divorce decree that he had with Penny. And actually, according to Nicol, the child's can't be around somebody who has criminal convictions or pending criminal cases. This was his apparent objection to Hogue being around. And one of the reasons that he reported this to the deputy, or allegedly reported this to the deputy, is because Kevin was concerned that Hogue would want to fight him over this. Later on that night, Penny apparently reports that Kevin had broken into their home, obstructed the security camera with spray paint, took some things, destroyed others, and then left.

Now, this, John, is all the buildup to the shooting. And we will talk about the circumstances of the shooting because there's two competing narratives here. How do we make sense of that? And what do you make of those two different narratives? Can both things be true at once? Is one side telling the truth and the other's not? But you're seeing a buildup here.

You are seeing a buildup, you know, which is another reason why I think this case got amplified is you have, you know, you have professional wrestling script coming to reality with tension, Hogue's head, he has like the classic head tattoo. You have the villain that you want here. And at the end of the day, the divorce court and the prosecutors and investigators will kind of figure out about security cameras. But again, even if, you know, Knuckles Madsen was the bad guy and spray painting security cameras, you can't go murder him. But this will all be part of a case, right? This is not going to be just about what happened on that highway.

It's also going to be about everything that was leading up to it. So it's almost not a mini trial, but this is going to be maybe a larger trial than we imagine. It's going to be building up to what was going on. Certainly. And some of it might be kept out via motion and liminey. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's pretty clear. You've got most people want to tie a bow at the end of a divorce. Divorce is finalized.

Everybody moves on. But here, the wrestler's spouse was impregnated. There was tensions with this criminal new boyfriend. and it intersected their other child's relationship. And so, you know, there was tension. There's no question there was tension. I think there were some text messages. And, you know, normally that can be resolved,

but it seems like you just had, you know, out of the ordinary aggression, which led to a shooting. This goes to intent, right? It goes to the circumstances of a potential self-defense case because that's what I want to get into right. Okay. So you fast forward. a couple hours later, and there is this 911 call about the shooting. The deputy apparently saw

Kevin, responds to the scene, apparently saw Kevin throw a revolver at the deputy's car. The deputy sees the gunshot wound. This is where Kevin allegedly told the deputy, this is big, told the deputy that it was Hogue who shot him. And it should be noted that the medical examiner would confirm that Kevin died from the gunshot wound to the abdomen, the testing on the gun that Kevin allegedly threw and the bullet taken out of his body did in fact show that the bullet was fired from the gun. John, isn't this what we call on the law a dying declaration, right? So normally, to have a statement from the victim that would be hearsay. But what are we talking about if, I mean, this seems to be a classic example of a dying declaration. Am I right? Explain to our

viewers if I'm right and if that's what that is. Right, certainly. So hearsay has a bunch of different exceptions. Here say is the classic out-of-court statement that you usually keep out of court because it rings as true if it's brought into court. And there's no way to verify it. Like you, there's an issue of reliability. Particularly with the deceit. And so those words are often more protected because what somebody says, you just want to keep it out as secondary information. But a dying declaration and excited utterance, certain types of things have hallmarks of truth and reliability that the courts let them in. And so you had a gap from the time that Nicol was shot in the abdomen to the time he dies and he identifies what happened to him. And that has extra reliability. They'll

piece it together with the scientific evidence. And I think it comes in. And it all becomes down to whether or not the jury believes this deputy and whether the defense will probably say, are you sure that's what you heard? What was the state in which, you know, Kevin said this to you. was he mumbling? Did he seem coherent? Did he know what he was saying? And, you know, they'll probably question whether or not he was telling the truth. And that's tough, right? Because I'm anticipating what the defense may argue. But they may say, and we'll get into what this potential self-defense argument is, they may say, you can't believe Kevin in that moment. He was putting the blame on Hogue. I will tell you, though, everything I just said is

consistent with what prosecutor Robinson had also said. He confirmed that there was an argument that led to the shooting, told Five News, quote, after being shot, Mr. Nickel was able to obtain the firearm and go seek help from somebody driving down the road nearby. Unfortunately, he was not able to be saved and confirmed that Kevin Nicoll did actually admit that it was Hogue who did this to him, allegedly did this to him. But now you go to the affidavit. So Hogue presented a different narrative to authorities about what happened. Maybe not surprising here.

He alleged that he and Penny were driving when they see Kevin at the bottom of the hill at Beaver Shores Road in Arkansas 12. And that is where Hogue claims that Kevin pulled out a gun. They start fighting, the gun goes off, and after the shooting happens, he and Penny go back to their home. So you wonder, is this a case of self-defense now? According to the affidavit, there are messages between Kevin and Hogue where they are insulting each other and discussing meeting at, quote, the bottom of the hill. According to the affidavit, Penny supports this narrative and apparently told the deputy

that she tried to step in and break up the fight, says both of them were covered in blood, that Kevin put his arm around her neck at one point. However, I will tell you that the affidavit notes that it didn't look like Penny had any visible injuries on her neck. Now, reportedly, she says that she saw Kevin walk away after the gun went off. It's also been alleged that Penny apparently called Kevin's mother, told her that Hogue shot him. Now, to be clear, she claims neither she nor Hogue ever brought a gun. There's an issue here, though. The affidavit notes that apparently investigators got video surveillance, and they can see,

Kevin in this area walking around before the shooting, their analysis is that he's walking around and he doesn't appear to have a gun in his hands. And the affidavit also notes that there were two baseball bats found near the scene. And by the way, Kevin and Penny's son confirmed that one of those bats was his. John, I knew I threw a lot of details at you. But the question becomes, is self-defense possible here? I don't like self-defense here. You know, you've got you've just got too many leaps that you have to take because let's just say that they were meeting to fight. And that's knowing, right? You're intending to go to a fight with Knuckles Madsen, you know, Kevin Nicol.

Meanwhile, that doesn't eliminate the possibility of self-defense if one person brings a gun to a bat fight, right? But there's no gun from Kevin's perspective. Either way you tie this, somebody shot their way out of a fight, and I just find it hard to believe that Amanda and Michael were just traveling down the road and stopped at this fight when they could have kept going and it escalated in the person that they wanted dead is dead. It's just all too coincidental. And I think that's why prosecutors are kind of just just holding on to determine what level of death is this, first degree, second degree, you know, what's going on. But this also kind of explains why it took so long for there to be a

arrests here, right? I mean, it seemed like they really needed to do almost like a crime scene analysis, a reconstruction of the events that happened. And they might have believed that there was a struggle where the gun went off and, you know, this wasn't a case of murder. But it seems like the history, the messages, perhaps it's their accounts don't match up with other evidence where they think that this is a murder charge. But is it clear cut? Is it clear? You know, because if this I've seen other cases before where, you know, the defendants are accused of luring someone out, open fire, the victim has no idea what's coming, comes out of nowhere. If they can establish that there was a struggle, there was a fight, this case could get a little bit more complicated.

I totally agree. And oftentimes I'm commenting on cases that I kind of predict the result. And so I can I can comfortably take more of a side. Here, I could argue either side. I've done criminal defense. I've done victim's rights. And I like the perspective that prosecutors have a little bit more here because of the nature of the history and the escalation. But like you said, the defense would simply characterize the victim, Kevin Nicol, as this hothead professional wrestler who was escalating. And so either way, we've just got to see how everything shakes out. And as a prosecutor, you know, you don't have to win them all, particularly in small towns. But you do have to give juries the right to hear.

the cases that are close or a crime. And so they're going to make their statements and do their thing, but it ultimately becomes, you know, a jury of the peers that decides whether this was what level of crime this was if it was one. Well, it's being reported that these two defendants, their arraimans, are scheduled for 8 a.m. January 5th. The judge ordered both of them not have any contact with Kevin Nichols family and the minor child in this case, which is not surprising here, right, John? No, not surprising at all. My law. My law. partner does family law and he loves family law. I love and I don't mean it in a bad way. I love juicy wrongful death. Like it just it touches my heart to help families and rarely do our worlds

intersect. But in cases like this, they intersect. And it's just horrible, horrible circumstances when we just wish people could figure out their relationship issues without it ending in abuse, death, harm to children. Because at the end of the day, you've got a father that's dead. and you've got, you know, other parents that are facing the criminal justice system. And so there's just no winners. You're right. There's no winners. There is a loss.

It becomes the question of what is justice in this case? What happened in this case? But you mentioned family, right? So Kevin's mother, Susan Kinderman, told five news, quote, I just hope that we have a lot of answers. I know that the justice system will work. Whatever penalty they get, I'm fine with. But instead of that, I want to make sure that we know exactly.

exactly what happened and why. I would like to hear it from them. I don't know if I will, but I would rather hear from those two. And we'll just have to see how that comes out. By the way, John, it seems to me if this goes to trial, both of them would have to explain what happened. They would have to take the stand. They don't have to. You know, it's not mandatory. It's their decision. But to explain away what happened, I feel like them getting on the stand and trying to, you know, give their narrative about what happened is important for a jury to hear. Exactly. Especially since they have to confront, again, the reason it's hearsay that we were talking about is because Kevin is no longer able to say it in court himself. So it's got to come through a deputy. But to the extent they've got to confront the decedent Kevin Nichols' statement about how this happened, they've got to address that. And I think you've got to address it pretty head on. Now let me just end on this. This guy, Kevin Nickel, was beloved, okay? The Ozark Mountain Wrestling shared a tribute to Facebook on July 12th. mourned him, quote, the shock of his loss has felt deeply by everyone who knew and loved him.

He was an amazing friend and had a fierce love for his family, especially his beloved son. An Ozark Mountain Wrestling held a tribute show in Kevin's honor, July 19th and Rogers. The National Wrestling Alliance, the NWA, Texas, released a statement saying NWA Texas is sadden to learn of the passing of Kevin Nicol, professionally known as Ivan Warsaw and Knuckles Madsen. His contributions to professional wrestling will never be forgotten. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends. during this time, rest in peace. And then you have a friend of his, Logan Pendergraft, who said, yeah, he was like my brother, said he was the best guy I ever knew. Family is obviously distraught

and trying to make sense of what has happened here. John Phillips, thank you so much for taking the time. Good to see you. My pleasure. Great to see you. And that's all we have for you right now here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. You'll follow me on X or Instagram. I'm Jesse Weber. next time. You can binge all episodes of this long crime series ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.