Leap Academy with Ilana Golan - Breaking the Glass Ceiling: How Adva Amir Became One of the Few Female Airline Captains | E108

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

As a curious eight-year-old, Adva Amir was mesmerized by the cockpit during a family trip, sparking a lifelong dream of becoming a pilot. After failing to become a military pilot in Israel, Adva felt broken. Shifting her mindset and picking up the pieces, she moved to the U.S. to pursue civilian flight training. Despite language barriers, naysayers, and grueling hours, she broke into this male-dominated field and became one of the few female airline captains in the world. In this episode, Adva joins Ilana to share insights on chasing your dream, even when the odds are stacked against you. Adva Amir is a commercial airline pilot, TEDx speaker, and LinkedIn Top Voice. Recognized by the National Business Aviation Association as one of the top 40 most influential people in aviation, Adva actively advocates for diversity and inclusion while mentoring aspiring pilots. In this episode, Ilana and Adva will discuss: (00:00) Introduction  (01:54) Her Childhood Fascination with Flying (03:16) Failing to Become a Military Pilot (05:51) Leading a Military Unit at 19 Years Old (07:15) Moving to the U.S. for Flight Training (12:06) The Challenging Path to Becoming a Pilot (17:15) Landing First Airline Job Amid COVID-19 (20:11) Breaking Barriers and Expectations in Aviation (23:06) Adva’s Viral LinkedIn Post Inspiring Millions (26:50) Adjusting to Long-Haul Flights with Hawaiian Airlines (30:34) Discovering a Passion for Surfing (36:54) Competing in the Maccabiah Games (39:01) Pursuing Dreams Despite Naysayers Adva Amir is a commercial airline pilot, TEDx speaker, and LinkedIn Top Voice. While at SkyWest Airlines, she became one of the few female airline captains, breaking barriers and inspiring others. Currently at Hawaiian Airlines, she flies long-haul routes as a First Officer. Recognized by the National Business Aviation Association as one of the top 40 most influential people in aviation, Adva actively advocates for diversity and inclusion while mentoring aspiring pilots. Connect with Adva: Adva’s Website: advamir.com  Adva’s LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/adva-amir-3bb2a6136  Leap Academy: Ready to make the LEAP in your career? There is a NEW way for professionals to Advance Their Careers & Make 5-6 figures of EXTRA INCOME in Record Time. Check out our free training today at leapacademy.com/training

Wow, this show is going to be incredible. So buckle up and I'm sure you're going to enjoy it. But before we get started, I want to ask you for a favor. See, it's really, really important for me to help millions of people elevate their career, fast-track to leadership, land dream roles, jump to entrepreneurship or create portfolio careers. And this podcast is all about enabling this for millions of people to see a map of what it actually takes for big leaders to reach success.

So subscribe and download so you never miss it. Plus, it really, really helps me continue to bring amazing guests. Okay? So let's dive in. Flight 527 ready for departure. If you have a dream, you can go and do that. There will be challenges, but it's possible. To most people, the sky is the limit.

But for Adva Amir, the sky is home. Did you know that only 6% of airline pilots are women? And Adva is an airline pilot. You'll find her on Hawaiian Air these days. I wanted to become a military pilot, but it didn't work out for me. It was a big setback. The first time that I actually saw you in person,

you heard about my journey and like me wanting to be a pilot and you encouraged me and gave me, you know, a lot of blessing and motivation with your big smile. But there were a lot of people who told me, you're a female, you're too young for that. There's no chance you're gonna be a pilot if you weren't a pilot in the military. So I finished training, I became a first officer and then I got upgraded to a captain. If there is something you believe in it or you're passionate about, go and try for it.

To most people, the sky is the limit. But for Aadva Amir, the sky is home. Did you know that only 6% of airline pilots are women? And Aadva is an airline pilot. You'll find her on Hawaiian Air these days. And I started following Adva. This is actually really fun from an insanely viral post that she had on LinkedIn. And this is actually the True Magic personal brand. So I'm so excited to have Adva on the show. I actually begged her to come and tell our story. Adva, thank you for being here.

Good morning. Good afternoon. I don't know, where are we? So you're in Hawaii and we'll talk about it, but take us back in time. You grew up in Israel. What first sparked the love for flights? Why flights? That's so random. My light sparked somewhere around age eight.

I was flying for the first time with my family to the US. And then I was a very stubborn kid and very curious kid. And from the jet bridge, I was waving for the pilot and they didn't notice me. And I kept waving, kept waving, kept waving till the captain finally saw me and he invited me to the cockpit. So I went there with my brother and all of a sudden,

this little kid seeing all these buttons and lights, I was just amazed. I was asking the pilots so many questions, and I think at some point they were afraid the flight will be delayed because of me. But they were so kind and so patient and they answered all my questions. There is one thing I remember specifically. They told me, welcome to the most beautiful office in the world. And they were right.

So this is how it started. Later on, I wanted to become a military pilot. All the air shows and everything, it really made my life even bigger, but it didn't work out for me. So becoming a pilot in the Israeli Defense Force is probably one of the most rigorous training tests possible. Most, most, most people, like I don't know the percentages, but most people obviously don't make it.

But I think that setback for somebody 18 year old can actually really hurt. So how did you go through the training and how did you cope with the setback? It was a big setback. I almost couldn't resist. I appeal and appeal and I really wanted to do it and I was like, no way I'm not going to be a pilot in the military. There's no way, but when I'm looking at it from today and I did something completely different in the military, I'm happy. I'm happy that the things work the way they did. At the time, it was really, really hard for 18 years old Advat to, first time, it was

like a big failure for me. It's like, they don't want me. But I think everything worked out the way it should and made me go and achieve my dream in a different way. There's a little bit of, to some extent, the best of the best will go there. Otherwise, you would not even get the minimum to even get the gate open, right? So what's interesting is that you take the most successful individuals that always, to some extent, were successful in everything they've done until then.

And that is kind of the first blow they get. And that's a really, really hard one. I mean, I think my first big defeats were kind of in the military, right? And these are big slaps in the face that sometimes take you some time to recover. Oh my God, like what just happened? Did they just kill my dream?

What is going on? So, take me just for a second. Do you remember how you felt and how do you recover from that? Because again, it's hard for overachievers. You are clearly an overachiever. And exactly as you said, as also the thought that they're taking the best of the best, and all of a sudden you feel like,

oh, so I'm not the best of the best. This was really hard to recover from. And I think it took me a long time. But as I started my position in the military, everything went away. And I said, okay, this is my journey now. I choose this. I enjoy this. I loved what I was doing in the military and I wouldn't replace it with anything else.

Do you want to share what that is? So I was a civil coordination officer in the IDF. I was working a lot, coordinating activities between the Palestinian Authority and the IDF. The interesting thing about military is that I think we get responsibility at age 20 that I barely had at age 40. And I still talk about it, right? So what do you think are like two, three main points or one significant one that are just like,

oh my God, this helped me? I think the first thing is that I learned to put the people first. I wasn't like this in the beginning, you know, as you were in the military too, an F-16 sector, that sometimes it can be like really busy. You have a lot of things to do and overachievers, we want to achieve everything and be good at everything.

And sometimes we forget the people. And I had a big department of 16 soldiers and I now know that I need to put the people first because eventually they are the one that will make my department fulfilled and better. Yeah, exactly. And at that point, you're managing literally 16 people and you're what, 19, 20? Yeah.

Right, isn't that amazing? Like, it's just crazy to think about it. It's crazy. So you still finished the military. What made you still decide to pursue flying? Because to some extent, that could also be a wound that you don't want to open again. I think my personality, that I was always a rebel, helped me go and pursue this dream again.

It took me a long time. I already applied for university, and I was supposed to start studying at a university. And then it was really 50-50 till I sat down with myself, and it was a long time, two months, I was writing the benefits and the disadvantages. Like the pros and cons and all that things. Yeah, pros and cons, like really doing this list that it wasn't like I'm going to do the flight school in my home country, I had to move to the US to do that.

So it was a big, big decision. And I remember coming to my parents and tell them, one day they were just sitting in the living room and I was like, Hey, I think I want to become a pilot. I want to be in a fly in the wall like that discussion. I remember my dad saying, okay, go and check it. You know, like it was very abnormal for a 21 years old girl to go and say, I want to be a pilot in my home country. Normally people just become pilots after the military, of course, in civil way. But they really accepted it calmly and relaxed, which made me relax. I was like, OK, it's possible. It's possible.

So people didn't try to say, are you crazy, Edva? Just go study something that you know works. There's no stats around women making it as pilots, really. It's so abnormal. Just go the regular route. Why do you need to be crazy? Were there like naysayers or no? Basically, people just accept it.

Oh, so many naysayers or no? Basically people just accepted. Oh, so many naysayers. So many. I got a lot of comments when I just started. I got so many of them that I didn't want to say, I'm going to become a pilot. I almost kept it as a secret. Like one day I just disappeared from Israel. I went to the US.

My friends were wondering, where did I go? And I said, at the beginning, I remember I was so scared. I was just saying, I'm going to study aviation. You know, that could be a lot of things. It's a very big, I love that. I love that. It is an open wound to some extent. I mean, it hasn't been many years.

It's probably not completely scarred up. I'm sure there's a little bit of anxiety. What if I fail again? Is that still in your head? That was still in my head. I think this was part of the reason that I didn't say anything, because I like to first show the results and then talk about it. It's not the opposite for me. And I think for a lot of people too, especially women, we want to prove ourselves first before we talk about it. It's not the opposite for me. And I think for a lot of people too,

especially women, we want to prove ourselves first before we talk about it. But there were a lot of people who told me, how are you going to do that? You're a female, you're too young for that. There's no chance you're going to be a pilot if you weren't a pilot in the military. It's a long way. So all the fear again, also from my military time, it rose up to the surface and I was like, maybe I'm not gonna be good enough again, but this time it worked out, Ilana. So take us there, you're coming to the US, you have this plan, talk to me about the first early days

because it's also acclimatizing to a new country, new language, new everything. That's not simple, Adva. Like, that is very gutsy. It wasn't simple at all, especially the language. Of course, I learned English during school, but when you come to the US and everyone is speaking English, you'll all of a sudden remember I remember I was in a supermarket just buying groceries and then they asked me

if I want the receipt. This is not a normal question where I come from. So I was like, excuse me. And they're like, do you want the receipt? Like three times just to understand if I want the receipt. And then there is this English part, the mentality part, the new country part, the mentality part, the new country part, and there's also the aviation English, which is very different from English.

So I had a lot of struggles, but I think I also love challenges and I learned that I grow from them. So I took all of the things that happened to me as a challenge, but it was tough, I think, especially the English part. Now everything is in English. My studies are in English and everyone talking to me in English and I need to do tests in English. You actually need to make friends in English. Like that's not easy.

Did you have those moments where you're like, you know what, forget it. Let me just go back to Israel. Let me just go back to study. What on earth am I doing? I think this moment came later. I was a flight instructor. And in order to work for the airlines,

you need to build about 1500 hours, which is a lot. So you finish your studies with 250 hours, and then you need to build a lot of hours. And being a flight instructor, when you're trying to get as many hours as possible, you're kind of in a race for that. It was difficult. I remember, I came back home for a visit during my school. And all of a sudden I felt everything. And it was very, very difficult to, as a flight instructor and being like sometimes seven, eight hours in the air, it was very taking a lot of your energy. And I was like, there's no way I can do so many hours. There's no way I'm going to survive this. But this was like almost a point.

I was in Israel and I didn't want to go back. What age are you at that point? This was around 23. So you're still really young. And you see probably your friends having fun and doing the normal life thing. Yeah, the normal university or traveling the world. And the one thing that I felt also that there is no promises, even if I get to 1500 hours,

there's no promises someone will get me to the airlines to make my dream come true. So it was really hard to keep believing in the idea of maybe. And at that time, all the negative comments affected me. Now I know better, but it really added. It's hard. It's hard at any age, but how do you then get up and do it again? First of all, take me to that moment when you're like really down and you need to pack your bags and go back to the US and do this again and just work on the hope.

Because I think that hope is really, really hard to sustain itself. Really, really hard. And I think what helped me at that time, sometimes your supportive environment, this is what you need. You need a good word from someone close to you or a little encouragement and this is all you need. And this is what I got from my family at the time, which was exactly what I needed to go back and continue my journey. So you're continuing with these atrocious hours. What happens then?

I think I did a mindset shift. I went back to the beginning when my vision was so clear to me. I went back to that. And sometimes it's like a roller coaster, especially in this kind of a journey. And sometimes you're up, sometimes you're down, sometimes you don't believe.

And I think at this moment I decided I'm believing. No matter what people tells me, I'm putting everything in the background and I'm just continuing. I put myself on autopilot. I was taking the most out of it. I started to actually enjoy. And I think also when you're a new flight instructor, it's really hard.

There's a lot of things and new things like everything you start for the first time. It's hard. And you know, it's always, you know, the best of it in the beginning and you have so much to learn and I think me as wanting to be the best at everything I do was difficult. But once you pass this barrier, I think things open up. I started to enjoy. I was better. Initially, when you start, do you feel fear of landing

or fear of the basic things that should eventually become normal? Where did fear catch you? that should eventually become normal. Where did fear catch you? I think my fear caught me at different momentum than other people in aviation. And I know because I was speaking to my friends and a lot of people are afraid of their first solo and how they'll do.

And I think I was confident in my solo. I know I'm going to land it. I know I'm gonna land it. I know I'm gonna do well. The fear was always, you know, the first step is that you need to do landings. And then the next step is like, you know, flying in approach and then you have to do maneuvers. And every time before this step started,

I was like, am I gonna do well? Am I gonna do well? I wasn't sure like every time I going to do well? Am I going to do well? I wasn't sure like every time I had a doubt in myself if I'm going to do well, but once I was released to my solo, I knew I'm going to do well. So when you leave me by myself. When no one is watching, you know you're going to crush it.

So, okay, so that's amazing. So you're finishing these mega lots of hours. So take me there. Sorry, I broke from that because you reminded me something about fear, but what helped you get the first role in a real company or how is the path? I don't even know what the path is in like commercial. And I think all the listeners have no clue how I nervous. Eventually you end up in the cockpit. So walk us there.

After 1500 hours, this is what you need to get in airlines in the U.S. I got accepted to my first airline. It's a regional airline. This is normally will be your first company and they do flights in the U.S. Mostly on a smaller airplane. It's not a small airplane, but it's a smaller. It's between 50 and 70 people on a jet. And then I started my training,

which is a three months training. It's including a lot of knowledge, aeronautical knowledge, and simulator, a lot of simulator training to train all scenarios and to learn the airplane. And then one week before the end of training, COVID hits. And then they send all of us back home and now the big uncertainty, I finally made it. I'm already there.

And all of a sudden they changed all my plans. And I was in a big cloud of uncertainty. I went back to Israel. I didn't know when they'll call me, if they'll call me. And it was a really tough time, but I needed to stay optimistic. That could jolt you in a big way. Well, I think COVID jolted everybody in a big way because there was so much unknown.

And I think you were in the industry that was probably hit one of the hardest, right? Like the travel industry. So take me there. At this point, are you in SkyWest? Am I piecing it together or not? Correct. Okay. So what happens?

You're going back to Israel. There's a ton of unknown. What's happening? So I went back. It took me some months to understand. I was hoping maybe one, two months, three months, I'll be back. And then after time passes, I understood that I need to do something. So I started to do marketing for small businesses. I opened my business. I was starting doing that and I was doing that for a while here till they call us back. Okay so you're hustling. That's amazing. Yeah I had to and I didn't want to just sit at home because then you don't know there are a lot of thoughts and I wanted to do something and I found the one thing everybody needed at the time, everyone were moving to online platforms and I had this experience from before so it really

helped me to help other people to find their audience online now. At some point you also climb up in SkyWest. So what happens there? Was it before COVID? You do become a captain and I mean it's like pretty incredible even there. So what happened there? So after about 20 years I went back. They called us back. I was so happy to go back and fly. I had to finish training too, but we had to start everything

from zero again. So I finished training. I became a first officer. So when you're just starting at the airline, you become a first officer. And then after you get enough hours, normally it's 1,000, but it depends between company and company, you become a first officer. And then after you get enough hours, normally it's a thousand, but it depends between company and company, you become a captain.

So I was working at a first officer for about two years, and then I got upgraded to a captain. How many women captains exist? Like it's probably like minimal, minimal, minimal, right? It's very, very, very low. Very low. I think less than 2% actually become captain. And you know, during my time in the airline, I only got to fly with two other women in the cockpit.

So you can understand the statistic is not really for us. Right. But how cool is that? Like you come in and you see two women in the cockpit. Like let's go bad ass. All the gossips that went in the cockpit this day. No, I'm joking. That's amazing.

OK, so you climb up there. Do you get remarks? Like I'm sure there's all sort of remarks. People are excited. People are scared. People are wondering. People think that you're the stewardess. What remarks do you experience at that point? Because this is still new.

And I got a lot of remarks also as a first officer. I think they just were extended when I became a captain. But the flight attendant thing, it used to happen a lot. I would come to the gate, to the gate agent. Sometimes when we commute back and forth from work, if the flight is full, we have the benefits of taking the jump seat, which is the seat in the cockpit. I would go and I would ask for the jump seat and they would tell me, oh, you can't.

I'm like, why I can't? They say because it's only for pilots. I'm like, why I can't. And they say, because it's only for pilots. I was like, but I'm a pilot. So this would happen so many times just based on my look and the assumption that I must be the flight attendant. And it happened so many times, like really, I cannot even tell you. But I take it in a humor way and it's not like insulting me or hurting me because I know it's an awareness kind of thing because there's so little women in aviation.

We didn't break the barrier yet. Not yet. It's just not part of the template. Now you are part of the breaking the barrier, Adva, and that's why it's so amazing. And at what point did you write that really, really inspiring post that I think got, I don't know, many tens of thousands of whatever and millions of views, Fabi. When did you write that and why?

This was after we got back from COVID. After my first flight at the airline, I decided to write the post. It was about my journey. And as we talked about all the negative comments, it was important for me to show to people that it doesn't matter what people say. They can tell you everything, but eventually you are the only one who knows what you are capable of. So sometimes we take these comments so seriously from people we don't even know, that don't even know us and what we're capable of. Can I read it for a second?

Of course. It had a really beautiful picture of you in the cockpit. And it basically said, people told me I'm too young. People told me it's not for women. People told me I'd never be a pilot. People told me I'm too gentle to fly an airplane. People told me I'll never make it to the airline, et cetera. And to me, it's one of those really, really inspiring posts that basically, here it is.

Even though I got all these no's and all the feedback that I can't do it and I did it anyway. So to me that's part of why I think it drew so much and so many people into starting to see Adva. It was really incredible. I got a lot of comments from people after I shared this post about things they wanted to do and they had a dream to do, but they didn't do it. And all of a sudden when I showed my way and my journey, I remember I had one guy who told me

he has a high-paying, like high-tech job, and he wants to volunteer in Africa. And this pass made him go and do that, and he's been volunteering in Africa and opening his own nonprofit there. So, and this is just one story among a lot of them. I got a lot of messages from flight attendants who want to become a pilot,

and this post pushed them to do that. And when I wrote the post, I just wanted to share my journey. I had no idea it will had such an impact and we'll get like 3 million views, and so many people will see that. And I think when you do something really from your heart, this is what happened.

That's incredible. Like for me, that was just such a interesting one. Did you know that you're working on anything personal brand related at that point? Or was it just more spontaneous, I wanna share my journey or were you more intentional about it? I was really just wanted to, to share my journey. I wasn't working on anything.

I was just beginning my flight journey at a new company. And I told you, I had so many struggles during the way and so many comments. And I had this breakdown and then I had the breakthrough and then I had COVID and like every time like you're trying to hold your face above the water and you feel like drowning sometimes and then it happened like you see the light and I remember like my first flight I was pulling into the gate and it was all kind of mirrors. So I couldn't really see myself, but I see, wow, I'm like flying this big jet. And I just wanted more people to go and show them

that this is possible experience. Like if you have a dream, you can go and do that. There will be challenges, there will be a lot of barriers, there will be a lot of breakdowns, but it's possible. So this was my goal. If you're feeling stuck, underpaid or unappreciated, or you're simply ready to take your career and life to the next level, I have the perfect solution for you.

We have a program that helps you fast track and leap your reputation and career. Become the best version of yourself. Get the dream role you deserve, move up to leadership, jump to entrepreneurship, or even build a portfolio career. This program helps hundreds a year, and it will help you gain the income, influence, and impact that will transform the second part of your life. Watch our free training today at leapacademy.com slash free hyphen training. The link is in the show notes.

Now back to the show. At some point you decide to move to Hawaiian Airlines. Why? Hawaiian Airlines is an amazing company and Hawaii has some of the best waves in the world. But it was also like the first time that you did really, really long flights. Am I right? Correct.

When I moved to Hawaii and started working for the airline here, I'm now flying the Airbus 330, which is the long haul flights. So a lot of flights from the islands to the West coast, and we fly to Japan, on Australia, South Korea as well. So yeah, I do a lot of long flights right now. Was that an adjustment in terms of now it's different? You need to sleep, rest, whatever, like there's all sort of things, like it all changes. By the way, you have a great podcast.

For those who didn't hear it, Advaita has this really fun podcast where she actually shares little myths about What we think about flying and what it actually is. I love it and you do it. It's such a great job there But share a little bit. What was like the switch for you? the jet lag You know before in the regional airlines normally you fly in the morning, you come back at night and you do a couple of flights during the day. Here, if you do one long leg, you stay the night somewhere with a big difference in time zone, then you have to come back.

So some people think pilots can deal better with a jet lag. We don't. No. But the big switch, I think, is starting to enjoy the pilot life. Like really. Because till now I was in a kind of a race. Since I started still day one to get as many hours as you need to get to the first airline, which is the regional and then in a race to get to the major airline where I fly right now. So it was in a race all the time.

And sometimes I forgot to enjoy the journey. And this is also something I'm telling people like enjoy the journey and all part of it, because right now it's not a secret that also I love my lifestyle, I love my life, I love flying this big jet and my company but sometimes you do miss the small aircraft where you could actually fly it's not a secret that our airplanes 90-95% of the time we fly on autopilot. We do have a lot of tasks to do during, and we are in control of the airplane eventually, but you do miss like, you know, hand flying and you miss all those little stuff and maybe missing a little bit of flight instructing, just a little bit.

It's important to enjoy every step of the way. So I think the big thing right now is really enjoying my lifestyle finally. And for those listeners who don't know the flight space very well, it's true. In the big planes, a lot of it is automated right now, right? Ninety to 95 percent of the flight is normally on autopilot. We have a lot of tasks during.

We have to monitor traffic and weather and fuel and systems and reporting points and working as a crew if something comes up from the cabin or from the cockpit. We have a lot of monitoring to do. And it's not just we're sitting there like most people think, but a lot of the flights right now are mostly automated. ALIHA BOOTH So let's talk about your life. Was there like a decision to go to Hawaii? Did it need a decision or was it just like,

oh my God, yes, that's what I wanted anyway? KAYLEE I came here on vacation when I just was kind of my first time surfing. I was surfing in Waikiki Beach, this longboard. When did you start surfing? I really started surfing like one and a half years ago, almost two years. Wow, so still new, like very new thing. Super new, super new. And I enjoy every part of it. It teaches me a lot of things about myself, which is insane.

You know, you also have to deal with a lot of fears. And I think surfing is really a mental game more than it's a physical game. So I came to Hawaii for vacation. And about two weeks, I was loving it. And I just decided to stay. Oh my God. Okay, that is crazy. So you decided to stay and then you found the role in Hawaiian, basically?

Yeah, I knew I wanted to work for them, but it's kind of all everything happened at the same time and it was amazing. So, but let's go back to surfing because I think that's just such a great point. You see how my smile now. I know, I see it, I got it. It is so interesting because I think I do see so many similarities between, and even in the podcast, between perseverance in sports and perseverance in anything else. Because again, you need to fall down, you need to pick yourself back up.

We see it every single time. It's just amazing. So walk me through learning to surf for the first time, because that gets really hairy. And then what keeps you getting back up? When I started surfing, I loved it so much that I went out every day that I could. And then I heard the comments of people telling me, now you're too old, right? Because now I'm 31.

I'm not 21. When I was 21, I started flying. I was too young. But now the learning support at 31 is too old. You're too old. You're never going to get it. You cannot improve at that age. You have to be really dedicated for that.

And I finally found something that I'm so passionate about. And all these comments right now, they didn't do anything for me because I knew better now because I already experienced this, all these comments before. And when I'm passionate about something, I don't care about anything else. I'm just going with it. And I just got aboard and just started going out again and again and again and again and again. And one day I was in the water and there was another Israeli guy over there and we got connected. He

became my coach and everything just happened fluently and naturally. And I moved to smaller boards and I started surfing bigger waves and every step of the way I was so scared. Even today when I go in the water, I'm like, I have this fear of the big waves, of not being good, of falling in front of other people, which is supposed to be fun. But you know, when you have to tell yourself and talk to yourself and you know, I love that because it's true for entrepreneurship. It's true for pilots.

It's true for anything you do. The challenges are inevitable, right? The suffering to it or you know, what you make out of it is a choice, but the challenges will be there. And you not only learn this really, really quick, but you're also competing right in the Macabre out games, which is insane. But take me to some of these falls. Does it ever catch you and like, I don't want to do this.

Like I'm cold, I'm miserable. Like I'm breathing too much water. Like, first of all, Ilana, I'm a spoiled surfer. So this is why surfing a Hawaii only in warm water. Ah, okay. Well, big waves though. But it's big waves. It's scary waves. So I don't know if I buy it, but okay. What I realized this year, because last year I was surfing during the winter and the winter is where we get here, the bigger waves, and suddenly pushing myself to bigger and bigger waves. And I remember some sessions I would be out there, I would be so, so scared.

I don't even want to catch one wave. I would just be there scared. Fast forward to this winter, all of a sudden you go to the same spots and you have the same waves and you're not as fear as you were. So I learned the fear level also can change, but it's a matter of pushing yourself and even if not catching any wave being out there. Sometimes you just have to be and from being at a spot, you'll grow. And for me, like sometimes I hear, and I'm sure the listeners will hear advice. And we're like, don't you just want to rest?

You're flying when you like, and you do jet lags and then you serve and you do this. Don't you just want to like chill on the beach and have fun? And I don't know, some more greetings. I need to work on it, Ilana. I don't know some margaritas. I need to work on it, Elana. I need to chill, you're right. Yeah, for sure. I think this is the thing for me. Like it's hard for me to just chill and I know I need this, but it's kind of of a race that I need to tell myself, okay, today you are resting, you're staying at home or at the beach. I think there is this part of it that, yes, I need to chill for sure.

And it's not easy sometimes for some people. On the other hand, I think when you're doing stuff that you're very passionate about, you always want to do that. You want to fly, you want to serve. So I'm happy that I found my passion. about you always want to do that. You want to fly, you want to serve. I'm happy that I found my passion. Finally, some people would say it's late in life.

But I was doing a lot of sports as a young kid. I was swimming, I was playing volleyball, I was playing soccer. I did a lot of things and I was swimming too. When I found surfing, all the sparks in the air, like you fall in love, it's what happened to me. Yeah.

So you end up competing in the Macabia, like how much anxiety, like competing is a different level. How did you cope with anxiety and stuff like that? Yeah, so the Macabia is in July. Oh, okay, so it's coming. And I still have two more months to be nervous about it. Okay, so I can be nervous on your behalf. Okay, let's go.

There is anxiety, especially, you know, I'm a brand new surfer. Two years is a brand new surfer. It's nothing. It's like most people have it for so long, yes. Yes, and I know I'll be competing with the Gareth Surf 10 years, 20 years plus. It's like most people have it for so long. Yes. Yes. And I know I'll be competing with Gareth, sort of 10 years, 20 years plus. And it's all of a sudden putting myself in a place where I'm not the best when talking

about experience, which is really, really difficult to put myself out there. It's really putting myself- But you're still doing it, which is really cool. I'm still doing it and I'm still working on my mind for doing that and it's not easy, but I think it's really gonna be outside of my comfort zone. When I'm used to excel and be good at what I do and all of a sudden I'm not.

It's new, I'm still falling every session, I'm still doing stupid stuff on the board and with the waves, and I'm still learning every time. But I think because I learned that when I put myself outside of my comfort zone, this is where I grow. And it's very, very uncomfortable, very, very uncomfortable, I can tell you, but I'm doing it. I love that you're doing it.

I think it's just so beautiful. And I also say, I'm giving you a hard time for, and we're laughing about being busy, but I do think that life is in phases. And I think there's different phases in which you're gonna push different elements in your life. And it just feels like this is the right phase. In your phase, I think I was pushing,

I don't know, Ironmans and adventure races and other things. So I think I was pushing like, I don't know, Iron Man's and adventure races and other things. So I think I can totally relate. And I think it's just also part of the experience that grow you and live with you and the things that you can carry with you. So I'm just excited for you. But for people who are listening and they're maybe in crossroads of what's next and how do I find my passion and I want to do more in my life, but I, you know, maybe I'm afraid, maybe there's so much.

What advice do you wish maybe somebody would have told you? I think what I learned is just start whatever that is. If you're not 100% sure this is what you want to do, but you have a dream, but you don't have all the resources right now, just start. Start your journey. Some things will work out, some won't, but you'll learn a lot on the way. And when you're starting something and trying, just like experiencing, you're shaping your road and pivoting and like eventually you'll find the right way.

And I see your posts all the time. I see you climbing some like huge mountain and all kinds of different spots in the world. And I think every time is a different path, you discover new things. When you climb, you learn, you fall, you fail, but you continue. When you climb you learn you fall you fail but you continue so i think this is the first thing that is very important. That people that will take from today and the second thing that i always talk about that is don't listen to what other people have to say you can come to like someone you think that is your friend and show with them your idea and they will, oh, there's no way you're going to do that. Not because they're bad friends, but just because they didn't experience themselves or they truly don't believe. They're guarding you. They're really guarding you. They want you safe.

Yes. Possibly. Right. Yeah. It's from the right reasons, but they have no idea what you're capable of, and you're capable of. And you're the only one who knows it. So if there is something you believe in it or you're passionate about, go and do it and try and okay, if you fail, you'll learn something.

I love that because I think there's two types of remarks like that. One is to keep you safe. And that's usually if you really think about who you're getting that feedback from, it's usually not somebody who walked the walk. So I think always really be careful about who you're listening to. If they walk the walk and they're saying no, okay, why are they saying no? Let's be a little more receptive. But if they've never walked the walk, it's usually coming from some kind of guarding you.

But I think the second type is just the haters. I had somebody on the show, John Hennessey, and he says, if you don't have haters, you're not relevant. So I was just like, oh, good. I feel better already. You can't be loved by anyone and if you're doing extraordinary things, there will be people that want to see that. And I think a good example I have from actually from the surfing world is that I went surfing, it was maybe like two weeks ago, and I'm going out with a friend and you know it's Hawaii,

everyone is talking to each other, especially if you see you're holding a surfboard. And as we were going to the spot, there were three people, different people with a surfboard going out back to their car. And you know, we're doing this small talk. We're like, how was it? How's the waves? So first person said it was fun, fun waves. The second person said, oh, not a good day, so much wind, I couldn't catch any wave. And the third person said something like, it's fine. And we got there and we had the most amazing day.

So it also depends on the experience of the person and the board, which can be the resource of the person. It's a lot of ingredients and the background and the experience that engraved into one thing that eventually you will decide if you're having fun or not having fun or if the waves are good and not good. And I think that's so beautiful, because sometimes also your mood and your state of mind will dictate everything, right? Because it's kind of like Ford said, you know, whether you think you can, you think you can't,

you're right. Whether you want to have a good time or you don't want to have a good time, either one will work. Like when I dragged my kids on a hike, if they're pumped and excited, it's going to be a great hike. If they're already starting like, oh, not again, not again. Guess what? It's going to suck.

So now I only have an option. Like, do I drag him anywhere or do I let it go? But it's like, I know based on the initial reaction, and I think we're the same. We decide a lot of times. Sometimes we decide one thing and it's really going to flip on its head. But in general, we kind of dictate it. Am I right? Absolutely.

I think it's all eventually in the state of mind. Sometimes we can convince ourselves to think other ways. Sometimes we can't. And it's just part of it. So for people listening to this and thinking, okay, but airline pilot, that is really, really different. What would you say to them?

Why pursue either that or anything else that really go after their dream? Well, this is very cliche, Lana, but we live once, right? If you have a dream, I believe you should go and try for it. And with determination and the right mindset and perseverance and integrity and all of these qualities, you'll be able to achieve whatever you want and whatever you set your mind to. It might not be the thing that you started that you wanted at the beginning.

It might change on the way, but it's an amazing feeling when you get to the point where you saw yourself and you vision yourself over there. It's an amazing feeling, but I think the important thing is also enjoy the journey on the way, and I had to learn it the hard way because all of us were always in a race. We want to achieve that and that and that and that and that. But I think also enjoying every step of the way and taking the most out of it is it's hard to do, but very important. It's part of the fun. It's part of enjoying life.

We had Brian Keene on the show and he basically said, what would you regret at 97 and how do you win today to get there? And I think that was also kind of an interesting one for me because it was like, there's some things that you'll definitely regret not going. And most of the time we actually regret things that we didn't take action on a lot more than the things

that we did take action and didn't work out. So that was kind of an interesting one that I thought was exactly your story. So you just say yes to the maybe all day long. And it's just so beautiful to see. Yeah. Just get yourself outside of comfort zone. This is where you grow.

This is where you learn. It's not easy to be there. And the challenges will still be there. The scary moments will still be there. You're going to be tired. You're going to have jet lag. You're going to all the things, you know, but you still know that you've done something extraordinary. Yeah, but hopefully I'll be able to surf at 97.

Okay, now that's a go. This was so, so, so fun. So inspiring. I want to say something. I don't know if you remember we met long time ago, long, long time ago, eight or 10 years ago, I was volunteering for an organization and they did a hackathon in Los Angeles and you were one of the judges. Ah, I forgot that. Yes.

I missed that. Oh my God. And I remember this is the first I heard about you, but this was the first time that I actually saw you in person. And there were like four judges and it was a teen hackathon. So every company and group of teens, they built a product and showed it to you guys eventually. And then like, you know, there was a big audience

and it was really, really fun and amazing event what those little teenagers can do. And I remember hearing you talking to them and giving them feedback. And I was just so intrigued and amazed by how you talk to them and how you encourage them. And after that, I really wanted to meet you because I heard you were an F-16 flight instructor.

So one of my friend, Ana, she introduced me to you. And I remember, I was 22, maybe 23, and I was so amazed by you. And then she made the introduction and you heard about my journey and me wanting to be a pilot, and you encouraged me and gave me a lot of blessing and motivation with your big smile.

And we were talking about sometimes you need this little encouragement from someone, and especially when I was like, I'm still looking up to you and everything you're doing. So ever since, every time you're motivating me and when you see my posts, you're like seeing all these kind words. It's amazing to see that and amazing to feel that, especially from someone like you. So I just want to say thank you and I feel like closing a circle in a way. Oh my God, it's so beautiful. That's why I did not piece all the pieces together, although now in retrospect, I can see it. And now I'm like, oh my God, yes, you did message me.

Anyway, now I can see it. But seriously, I've been actually following your journey. I think it was incredibly inspiring to see you and just your grit and your tenacity and going after your dreams. And I think humans need to see more of that. So I'm just so excited that we got you on the show and that we made it happen.

Because I was just like, I want to get you on the show, let's go. I was the one chasing you, so let's go. I'm so happy you invited me here, really. I'm grateful. Thank you so much. Continue having amazing, safe, beautiful flights with gorgeous views around Hawaii and back and forth to the region. And good luck in the Vakabia.

Thank you so much. I will need that. I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. If you did, please share it with friends. Now also if you're feeling stuck or simply want more from your own career, watch this 30-minute free training at leapacademy.com slash training. That's leapacademy.com slash training. See you in the next episode of the Leap Academy with Ilana Golanshchuk.