Leap Academy with Ilana Golan - Dov Baron: Examine Your Emotional Source Code and Transform Yourself

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

At the peak of Dov Baron’s success, the worst happened. While free climbing, he fell on his face from a height of 120 feet. Dov endured several reconstructive surgeries and suffered deep depression. But after a moment of true transformation, Dov pushed the reset button. He found the emotional source code that gave meaning to his life and has been helping others do the same ever since. In this episode, Dov tells the fascinating story behind his transformation and highlights the importance of leaders examining their soulful purpose using their emotional source code. Dov Baron is an international speaker and leadership strategist. Dov has been named a Top 30 global leadership guru five times and listed among Inc. Magazine's top 100 leadership speakers twice. He has delivered presentations to companies and organizations globally, including the United Nations, the Department of State, and the US Air Force. In this episode, Ilana and Dov will discuss: - His childhood interest in art - His early career in the hairdressing industry - His leap from the hairdressing industry to a speaking career - The accident that changed the course of his life - His turning point  - Victim mentality - Living in integrity with your soul's purpose - How leaders can check their integrity  - Examining your emotional source code - Creating cultures of belonging for better engagement - The importance of staying curious - And other topics… Dov Baron is a leadership and corporate cultural strategist, recognized twice as one of the Top 100 Leadership Speakers by Inc. Magazine. He is a bestselling author of several books and the preeminent expert on Emotional Source Code. Dov has interviewed and worked with leaders featured in various top-rated media platforms, including Oprah, CNN, and Larry King, among many others. He hosts two podcasts, Curiosity Bites, and The Dov Baron Show. He has shared his wisdom and expertise with professional leaders worldwide for over 30 years. Connect with Dov: Dov’s Website: https://dovbaron.com/  Dov’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dovbaron/ 

If you guys want to be inspired, this is going to be a really, really interesting episode because the journey here is phenomenal. But I want you to see the behind the scene. And Do Barone is an architect of emotional source code, which we'll talk more about. It's hard to describe all his accolades. He was named many times world top 30 global leadership gurus and Inc. Magazine top 100 leadership speakers. He presented to companies, organizations around the world, including United Nations, Department of State, the U.S. Air Force, so many others. He has shows, he has books. This is going to be incredible. Dov, thank you so much for being on the show.

It's my absolute pleasure and honor. I'm looking forward to serving you and the audience. Our audience is all driven professionals that will look at your story and will basically say, Dov, how did you do this? So walk us quite a few decades back. And how did you even start getting on stages and everything that you've been doing? Well, I started off, I was an entrepreneur since I was a kid. I mean, I think I had my first business at 15, but I was in a completely different industry. So when I was at school, we had a guidance counselor who said, what do you want to do when you grow up, when you leave school? Which is a dumb ass question to ask anybody at that age,

but okay. But I wanted to be an artist. My art was in galleries by the time I was 11. I was very good at art. I believed I was going to be an artist and everybody around me believed I was going to be an artist. And the guidance counselor said, one in a hundred make it and one in a hundred of those make any money. So find something else. You know, I'm 14. I'm devastated. You've just completely shut down my dream. And I went home, and I was crying, and my mom said, what's going on? I told her, and she said,

there's other ways to be an artist, which I'd never considered. And I said, well, what do you mean? She goes, I have this hairdresser, and he's a wonderful hairdresser, and he's an artist. Let me see if I can get you a Saturday job. I didn't know it was the second most famous salon in the city. So there was Vidal Sassoon,

which you would know as an Israeli. Vidal Sassoon was famous, very famous around the world. And then there was the company that I got to work with called Harvey and Rupert. And I got there. I got to be a Saturday worker there. And I loved it. We engaged my artistry. I lied about my age and I started working there very quickly and was teaching in the academy by the time I was 15. I get a four-year apprenticeship in 10 months. Sort of skipped out of school initially. So that put me in the world of hairdressing. So I had salons in Australia and Canada and in Britain that I had run. And when I was probably about 12 or 13 years into that industry and having successful businesses, my partner said to me one day, you're really good.

I mean, I'd won a bunch of awards and all that. He goes, you're really good, but that's not why people come. And I go, what do you mean? And he goes, people come to talk to you. You know, and he pointed to somebody, he goes, you think she's here because he wants her out and she's been here too often. She wants to talk to you. I was like, oh, okay. So by then I'd already studied to become a Jungian psychologist, sidebar from what I was doing. And one day, one of my clients came in and he said to me, I want you to come and speak to my management team. He owned a national menswear company.

And I was like, what? About what? And he goes, I don't care. I've had lots of conversations where you can talk about whatever you want. I'm like, okay. And I really resisted, really resisted. I'm not a speaker. He goes, how long for?

He goes, an hour. I'm like, no, no, no. That's way too long. I said, I could do five minutes. We finally agreed on half an hour. And he had only one condition. And the condition was this. He said, I need you to show up the way you look today.

Now, I knew this guy because he owned a national menswear company. And he used to make my suits. I loved beautiful suits. But when I wasn't in a suit, I was a bodybuilder. And as a bodybuilder, I was in tight t-shirts, which were designed to be too small to show off my muscles, right? Because you're a bodybuilder in your 20s, everybody has to know that. It's important. And my hair was down to my chest. And my hair is naturally black ringlet curls, right? So like

the old Howard Stern hair. So I've got the designer stubble I had big earrings in that you could swing parrots off my hair's like a meshugan or it's out like a big pet nest and I've got ripped jeans and a tight t-shirt and he said my only condition is you come dressed like this and I said what do you mean Steve I said you know I have suits and he goes I don't want you to wear a suit I want you to dress like this I didn't understand it but I was like okay so I get to the gig again very nervous don't know what I'm going to say I put my head in the door and it's an 80s boardroom with everybody sat around looking like they're in the 80s looking like Gordon Gekko from Wall Street buttoned up ties. And this guy with the wild hair sticks his head in and the big earrings.

They're giving me the look in Australia. This isn't they're like, get out. Right. But I waited. And then Steve said, let's bring on our speaker. And so I come up and that, you know, jaws hit the desk. And I don't remember what I talked about. I do remember exactly what I said initially.

This was the early 80s. There was a lot of awareness around the mistreatment of the Aboriginals of Australia. And I said, put your hand up if you're a racist. Well, you can imagine nobody put their hand up. I said, OK, fair enough. Put your hand up if you would judge somebody by the color of their skin or by their economic background or by the way that they look, nobody put their hand up.

And I said, you're a bunch of liars. Every one of you are a bunch of liars. Every single one of you judged me by the way I look, by my hair, by my clothing. And you decided, on my educational level, you decided whether I was valuable to listen to and whether I was a potential client. You decided that instantaneously. But what you don't know is I'm a business person. And the reason I know Steve is because you make my suits. And the day that I walked into your company, I just happened to get the owner. And Steve served me and we become very good friends. And I thought, I have so blown it because I was very blunt. And I looked over

at Steve. And he's got a huge smile, because he's far smarter than me. He knew what he was doing. And I delivered exactly what he aimed to deliver. And that was the beginning of my speaking career. That's where it started. And I had no idea that that's where I was going to go. But what Steve wanted me to bring was my understanding of so many different things, because I'm a polymath. So psychology, metaphysical studies, Kabbalah, Vedanta, the Tao, Gnostic and Coptic Christianity, quantum physics, and neuroscience. And I brought those things together. And he grasped that that was what they needed so that was the beginning of the career not what I had expected but it was good what a turn

oh my god this was fascinating here you are leaping again to this weird amazing international speaking career right and it's so wonderful we're gonna go behind the scenes you know there's a lot of disasters let's be clear there were many disasters far more than there were accolades for a long time oh my god so tell us a little bit and also i think you had one major one in the middle so tell us a little more about the hardship of getting this off the ground because like you said it looks amazing to some from the outside but when you're actually there so the reality of it is that it started out as I said this was in Australia and this is pre-internet days and so so if you wanted to go do something, you had to get on a plane.

Or people had to get on a plane and come see me. So that was a very costly enterprise. And by the time I'd done my second tour of Australia, I was on the brink of bankruptcy. Because in those days, you're going to go all that way. You don't want to go all that way for a day. So I'd be there for over a month. And I'd speak. And I'd try and day. So I'd be there for over a month and I'd speak and I'd try and teach and I'd try and get some clients. And it was very costly and very

draining. And I had another business that was holding it up. My hair salons were holding up my speaking career. So I was draining that pretty damn fast as well. But I did take off. I did well. But then I realized I've depleted the market because, again, there's five major cities in Australia, all with varying sizes of populations. You can't go back every six months. It's just not viable. And I was doing Hong Kong and Singapore. I was like, OK, I got to leave.

So I moved to North America. And when I moved to North America, I had to start again. I had to start fresh, nobody knew me. And I did it. And I did very well very quickly. So I arrived in 88. So by early 1990, I was already on national tours of Canada, the northern US, I was in TV, radio, newspaper, magazines. There were six weeks in advance just to get a conversation with me. It was pretty great. I was the most successful I'd ever been in my life. And I was maybe a little bit ego-driven at that point, a little bit. I knew I was successful. And one of the ways I knew I was successful was because I drove a big American car. In the days now where we're

all concerned about carbon, you know, my car didn't do miles to the gallon, it did gallons to the mile. It was just a monster, but as a poor kid from Northern England, and this was a way for me to tell myself I was successful. And on a particular day in Juneune 1990 i had become over the last prior sort of seven or eight years prior to that a bit of an adrenaline junkie i did all kinds of stupid shit that i do not recommend on a particular sunny day in june of 1990 i was free climbing with a buddy of mine up by whistler in british columbia where the winter olympics of 2010 were held and free climbing with a buddy of mine up by Whistler in British Columbia, where the Winter Olympics of 2010 were held. And free climbing is climbing without ropes. And at about 120 feet, I reached for a rock that dislodged a bigger rock that hit me in the face and sent me hurtling down at maximum velocity onto the rocks below, where I got smashed to pieces.

And I've had five near-death encounters and multiple reconstructive surgeries in the process. So that was definitely a turning point, one might say. Tell us a little bit about what this recovery did and did you need to change course or what happened? It was really interesting because I can go into the gory jesus of what happened nobody needs to know that but what is truly fascinating about it people will say that must have changed your life that's the natural question and the answer is it didn't and people like really and i'm like no it didn't it actually intensified my ego you see i was born in a ghetto in Northern England. In abject poverty, I became a boxer, a martial artist, a leader. I ran companies. You're not knocking me down.

So when people would say to me, how you doing? With my jaw wired closed, I'd say, I'm great. I'm coming back. I fell in June of 1990. And in November of that same year, with my jaw wired closed, I bungee jumped 140 feet off the Nanaimo Bridge. Talk about a bit thick, right? Bistles of drake, you might say. So it embedded me deeper. And after about eight or nine months in, my buddies would pick me up on a Saturday, and they'd take me out to a club and we'd hang out a bit and I'd be miserable and I'm a fun guy I've got a good sense of humor

I can be playful but I would just be miserable but they would not know I was faking it and on one particular night I went out and I had a good night I had a laugh

and I thought okay I am coming back this is great I'm getting my sense of humor back this is great and I came up back steps to my house and I'm getting my sense of humor back. This is great. And I came up the back steps to my house and opened the door to the kitchen. And the light from outside washed across the floor. And on the floor was empty garbage.

There was coffee grinds, empty cans, kitty litter. It was stunk. And it was disgusting and gross. And I went from that moment of joy and potential coming back to absolute unraveling rage that I'd not even experienced in my entire life. I stomped through the house. I wanted to find the culprit and I wanted to do harm. I wanted to kill. It was that much rage. And I walked into the living room and there's the, all curled up and cozy on my couch. And I raised my hand to strike, but I'm not violent. And some part of me kicked in and went, that's not what you do. And I stopped, and I put my arms down, and I scooped up my cat into my arms.

And he was cold, and he was stiff, and he was dead. He'd had a distemper attack, and that's what caused him to trash the kitchen. And I fell to my knees and I began to weep. And within a very short time, I realized I'm not weeping for the death of my cat. I'm weeping for the death of who I was. And I had not given myself permission to grieve the death of who I was. And that was the turning point. And I tell people all the time, you think this bankruptcy, this diagnosis, this divorce, this devastating, quote, fall is going to change you. It's not. The moment of change will come when you can go back to normal and you choose not to go back to normal because normal isn't healthy. Normal is just whatever you've been doing. People after the pandemic said,

oh, I want things to go back to normal. I was like, hell, I hope it doesn't go back to normal. That's not a good idea. And I had to realize there's a new direction in my life and what am I going to do? And my initial thought was I'm going to quit. I'm not doing this business anymore. I'm out.

And in fact, a friend of mine came to me a few days later and I said, I'm done. He goes, what do you mean? I said, I'm not speaking anymore. I'm not going to be working with people. I'm out. And in fact, a friend of mine came to me a few days later and I said, I'm done. He goes, what do you mean? I said, I'm not speaking anymore. I'm not going to be working with people. I'm out. And then two years later, he saw me speaking and he said, well, I thought you weren't doing this anymore. I said, I'm not. And he goes, I just saw you on stage. I go, no, you didn't. He's like, what are you talking about? I said, you did not see the guy you knew on stage. And he said, what do you mean? I said, I'm doing it, but I'm not doing it from the same place. And at that moment where I was on my knees, I realized that I could keep saying what I

was saying, that I'm coming back, but life doesn't work that way. There is no back. And then I thought, okay, well, this position, which was incredibly seductive, which is I'm a victim, was incredibly seductive, which is I'm a victim, was very seductive. I can play on this story for the rest of my life, but I couldn't do that. So what was the third option? And they didn't know. But what showed up was the third option was to truly find my purpose.

Now, if you'd have asked me five seconds before I fell, are you on purpose? I would have said absolutely. But the truth was, I was on a purpose, but it wasn't my purpose. And how do I know? Because I was looking for, and this is the trap where most people get into looking for their why or their purpose. I was looking for my purpose to make my life better. And that's a trap. Because my purpose is not to make me feel better. I'm here to serve my purpose. It's not serving me, I'm serving it. And that was the transformation, was how can I serve this purpose rather than it serving me? And that's a huge distinction that you just talked about, though, because first of all,

it's very easy to get into victim mentality, blaming, accusing, it's everybody else's fault except for looking in the mirror. And that looking in the mirror is a really hard moment when you actually need to decide, is this the life that I wanted to live? Or am I living something that was not what I should be doing on earth? So the tweak to it is that this thing that I'm doing, I might be very successful at. It might be bringing me the accolades. It might be bringing me the money, the quality of life, the private school for my kids or whatever it is. And I realize that that's extraordinarily difficult to give up.

I'm not pretending for a moment that it isn't, but it doesn't mean it's your path. There's no problem with it. You can continue to do it. But if you want fulfillment, if you want to create a legacy that's beyond materialism, that's a deeper question. And that's what I do privately with my clients who are often billionaires or political leaders or athletes, entertainers, famous people, because they're already got everything. And they're like, what's next? What's next? I've done all the things.

I got all the accolades. I've had 14 coaches. I've had a therapist. What's next? I'm not getting there, Dov. What is it? And the interesting thing is that my process, I don't point out you're going to be more successful

because they already know how to be successful. But what happens inevitably in them going down this path is they do become more successful, but it's a heck of a lot more meaningful. It has more purpose. You love it. There's a joy there, as opposed to the momentary happiness of the accolade.

You stand on the stage and you get your Grammy or you get your Oscar or you get your notification or whatever it is in some way. And then you go home and you sit with your partner and you have a small drink and you think, yeah, okay, what's next? That's a sad feeling that we, particularly Western civilization, are conditioned to go for. I'll be happy when keeps getting pushed out. And it becomes, I'll be happy when I'm dead and I go to meet my maker. Well, maybe you won't. What if you just worm food? I'm not saying that's the truth, but if you're living your life with I'll be happy when, you have to consider that maybe you'll be

worm food. Incredible. So then you look in that mirror, you become a different you or a better version of you that is serving, that cares about others. It's less about the ego. It's serving, which eventually also led you to run multiple companies, businesses, three continents, right? You're winning in a big way. Tell us a little more about that era. And also, I think even then some businesses just don't go the way you want, and you need to decide whether you stick to your integrity. So the interesting thing is that I'm in the same world as everybody else. I'm aware of the push towards success, and I'm certainly not opposed to capitalism.

I'm a capitalist. I'm an individual. I'm an individualist, but i'm also somebody who deeply believes in community and cultures of belonging that being said if you choose to live your life in integrity with your soul's purpose that's what i call it and that's not a spiritual term it's this deep sense of self from actualization if you do, you're always in this place of checking your own integrity. You don't let your ego check your integrity, you have to check it yourself. And what that means is that sometimes you walk away from things that are very successful.

So I think a lot of people refuse to quit when they're down. And I think one of the dumbest things I ever learned and really lived, which is get knocked down seven times, get up eight. That's stupid. I did it all the time. It's stupid. I did it when I fell off the mountain and went bungee jumping. It's stupid. Get knocked down once, stay on your ass and work out why you're on your ass so you can get up and be stronger and better. And so that's fine when being knocked down. But what about when you're at the top? How do you check your integrity there? Because most people won't tell you the truth when you're at the top. And I owned a personal development company where all the IP was my own. Worth about, back then, 15 years ago, estimates were between 10 and 17 million, depending on who was assessing.

Okay. And I was running these events that were often multi-days or seven-day intensives, and people were doing long hours. It was powerful, powerful work. And I loved it. I adored it. Loved doing, serving that way. And it was intimate.

No interest in being a Tony Robbins. I didn't want 5,000 people in the room. I wanted them intimate. So our larger groups were 500. And our smaller groups would be as little as for some of the very intense ones, as little as 30 or 40 people. So it was very intense. And one day, I had done this presentation and gotten all these applause and blah, blah, blah. And I went and talked to my wife. And my wife is just an amazing human being. She's the greatest gift of my life. But she's also this amazing compass of integrity.

And she'll never, I mean, it's part of our marital agreement. She will never ask me to change anything. But she will always call me out on living me living as my truth so i'd done this presentation i got all these accolades and she said how was it and i said oh it's great you know automatic response and she said are you sure yeah i think so yeah okay so she says okay okay you evil human being what does that mean she goes i'm just asking you are you sure are you in integrity and i said tell me what you mean she goes remember you spoke to this person from the stage and i said yeah and she goes didn't you go out and spend time with that person in the break and I said I did and she goes what happened I go oh they were transformed by the conversation

and she said do you remember who that is and I said yeah she's been through this program three times she goes what's that like for you I said obviously she's getting something out of it each time because you're a different person each time you take it she goes yep that's true how many of the audience are in the audience who are people who have been here before i said probably 20 you know they come back for more which is wonderful and she said okay now i can ask you a question that you've brought up to me many times and i said yeah she was how many of them in the audience would you guess have been in other people's programs and i went hmm so if you're watching this and you've written a book you should know whatever the category of the book is you need to go do your research find out which book and category is under because the chances are that the person who is going to buy your book has bought seven books, seven in that category, and has not

read past the first chapter in almost all of them, many of them only the first few pages, and at most 30% on one of the seven, because people are not integrating what you're teaching. And I went, oh my God, I'm in the recycling business. I'm validating that people are not enough. I'm validating that there's something wrong with them. That's not my intention, but that's the purpose of this. This is what happens. As opposed to serving those who are committed to actualizing themselves and then serving those that they serve from that place of actualization. Already had my corporate entity

and I was already working with companies and with leaders. And I realized, yeah, I fight with some of the leaders, but the leaders I really love working with have pushed their own egos to the side and want to serve their people. And I was like, okay. A month later, because we had some programs booked out, a month later, we closed down the company.

And my friends went, why the hell don't you sell it? And I go, I can't. I could have sold it a month ago. Now you don't believe in it enough. But now I'm out of integrity if I sell it. I can't sell shit I don't believe in. Now I'm just a cheesy car salesman. I can't do that.

I might as well grow a bad mustache and get a bad suit. And that's where it brought you into creating this course of culture of belonging and the things that you're doing now to create real transformation, not just a periodic boost. Am I right? Yeah. I mean, my work is focused around something called the emotional source code, which is the science of emotion, the actual science of emotion. And that's the work that I do very deeply with individuals, but I also do it with organizations. And I've even done it around nations. So I wrote one, the emotional source code of the US. I wrote the emotional source code of England. But I do it for individuals. I wrote

one, it wasn't by request, by the way. But I wrote one about Vladimir Putin when he invaded Ukraine, so people could understand what drives this human being. Because I had my leaders reaching out to me going, I don't understand, This doesn't make geopolitical sense. Why is he doing this? So I wrote a source code. You can get it, by the way, if you go on my website, dovebarron.com, right there. It'll pop up as a pop-up, and you can download it.

I wrote it in a very easy way to understand, five pages, and it helps you to understand that person. I did the same on Donald Trump when he was running in 2015, and I said he would win, and I told him why, based on his emotional source code. It's understanding what drives a person, and if we don't use what drives us in a very positive, healthy way, we will use it in an unhealthy way. The problem is that we fully justify our unhealthy way and may even see it as a good thing. Like, I am certain that Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, because those are two examples I just gave, I could give you many more, are convinced that they're doing good stuff. So the emotional source code is not determining it's right or wrong.

But when you examine it about yourself, am I really on my soulful purpose? Or am I constantly patching up some wound that I have, shoving some Band-Aid on a massive lesion? That's a massive difference. So when you take that to understanding of individuals, it's powerful. When you take it to understanding companies and their culture and bringing everybody's emotional source code together, we create these things called cultures of belonging. And just to be clear on that, we are all human beings. We're tribal. We all need a tribe. And if you don't have a culture

of belonging, you will automatically find yourself compelled to fit in. Now, just think about the distinction because you probably go, well, I don't know the same thing. Well, I like nice shirts. I like pretty shirts. I'm kind of known for my pretty shirts. And I buy too many. My wife will tell you, I buy too many, right?

But in order to buy a new shirt, I have to make space for it. I can fit it into my closet, but it will end up all wrinkled and distorted. Or I can get rid of some and give some away and create space for it to be fully present. That's how it is for us as human beings. If we have to fit in, we will distort ourselves. We will disenfranchise parts of our personality, parts of our strengths and our beauty in order for them to go, oh, we accept you. We think you're wonderful.

But the truth is, as long as you don't bring that out, right? So as long as you're not that, we love you, right? But if you're that, well, we can't love you anymore. That's a culture of fitting in. And as companies and organizations, we've done this since the industrial age. So, you know, show up in your khaki pants and your blue shirt. is the right outfit oh you can't wear heels oh you must wear heels whatever it is it's all about fitting in and disenfranchising parts of you though you don't get the most out of your people from that you actually get the least out of them because they're there complying for a paycheck but when you create a culture of belonging they want to bring their best self because this is a place. It's like I'm held here.

There's room for my wings to spread. So as an example, I was just working with a team yesterday and I said, put your hand up if you have a skill set that's not part of your position that might be valuable to the company, but it's not your area to cover? Everybody had someone. And my answer is, why doesn't the company applaud this? Then the next question was, how excited would you be to bring that? Even if it doesn't work? Everybody was like, yeah, it'd be great. Would that stimulate new innovation? Absolutely. Would it be a stimulus of creativity? Yes. Innovation, creativity. Would

it bond you to the people you were working with? Yes. Okay. But you're not doing it because you have a culture of fitting in. So that's an example of it. Understanding that humans are tribal. If we don't belong, we will fit in. But fitting in is a shitty, shitty version of what it is you really need. I love that you said that because it's so true. If you're really, really busy trying to prove yourself and be someone who you're not, you're just not busy on doing the right things. And again, I know you speak a lot about this and other things in your newsletter on LinkedIn, right? So that's another great place for them to look. You have a bunch of books, probably Firstly Loyal and a bunch of others can be great for our audience.

Who should be reaching out to you and checking this thing? Because again, belonging is a big word and honestly, everybody needs the belonging. But who is your ideal audience and who should check this out? Well, there's two audiences. One is for my private work, which, as I said, are very successful individuals who are secretly, usually, secretly going through a sense of identity crisis, a sense of what the is all this about, you know, what's missing, what's next. I don't know. I could buy another house. I could buy another car. I could buy another yacht, but there's something missing. So that's the private work. And you don't have to be in that financial category, but that's a lot of the people who are famous in some way, shape or form. And very much, I can't use their names. They're those

people, right? But I have other people I work with who are very successful entrepreneurs. My dear friend, who is also in a similar space to me, working with multi-generational families, gives me shit because I don't charge enough. That's all the time. He's like, he charges more than me and he's my student. So it's those people one-on-one.

But at a corporate level, it's if you are a leader inside of an organization and you're beginning to understand the value of this, particularly in a post-pandemic world, you recognize that, first of all, engagement was terrible before the pandemic, and it sure as hell is much worse now. You've got the great resignation. You've got quiet quitting. You've got all these things where people are just barely doing what they need to do. And you're not going to change that with another cappuccino machine. It's just not going to work. You're going to have to do something quite radical to be transformative and to do that in the age of AI. If you want to really, really soar ahead, and you're in that leadership position, I can help you build that inside of your organization with your executive team and with the people that they serve. Because as a leader, you have to

demonstrate what you want. Leaders go first. And as leaders, we have to recognize we're parents. And I'm not saying you're employees of children, but I'm saying there's a parental relationship in the context of if you don't do it, why would I? Because at some point, your people are teenagers who are saying, screw you, I'm not following your rules. So they have to be inspired into going, you're walking that talk, I'll walk that talk, or I'll walk away, which is actually good for you. So if you're in the leadership position, that's definitely it. And if you want to do that inside your company, and you go, well, we're not really big enough. So we're only a five, six, 10 people size company. Okay, that's fine. I also have a course called creating cultures of belonging. And I'll tell you up front, it will walk you

exactly how to build a culture of belonging. But what you need to know is I put a lot of my personal work into it. So what I mean by that is you're going to be asked to examine you. So one of the things I talk about is something called mirror philosophy. What does that mean? It means that everybody in your team who pisses you off, that's the mirror. You got to look in the mirror. What is it about you that's reflected in this person that you don't want to, oh, I'm not like that, aren't you? Every conversation is a mirror. Exactly.

So that's just one extra piece that understanding it's all a personal journey. Your personal and professional development are not separated, no more than your home and business are separated. You maybe like to tell yourself they are. But believe me, if you have a shitty day at work and you go home, your partner and your children know that. And if you have a shitty day at home and you can put on the smiley face and all the rest of it, people are like, what's up today?

What's wrong? They may not say anything to you, but they know it. Depending on your level of authority, they may not say it. But the truth is everybody knows it. Incredible. Dov, I love every minute here. Anything last that you want to say to our audience to either understand more around what you do

or more around taking those leaps, making those big strides, going big, not being afraid. Because if you stop where most people continue, that's where you miss the boat. So tell us more, Dov. I mean, first of all, I would say, if you really want to grasp the depth of what it is that I do,

I have a thousand, more than a thousand videos on YouTube. I have a podcast called The Dove Barron Show. You can go find that or Leadership and Loyalty podcasts on wherever you listen to podcasts. And we go pretty in-depth on those. So you'll find some good stuff in there. I have a newsletter, as you said, on LinkedIn, which is polymathic. I go into the different areas, as I said, from geopolitics to your emotional process of how you do it. So that's all there. But all that's aside, let's just put all that to the side. Oh,

that's, you know, that's promotion. And I've got to say my thing, because that's what I got to do, right? I'm here to promote that as part of it. But I'm here mostly to serve you. So let's go to that for a minute. The thing that I finish off everything with is right above my head here. It says, stay curious. If you want to be successful in your life at a level of fulfillment, not just accolades or money, you have to stay curious. I have six grandkids and my second youngest grandkid is almost three. She's with us every other weekend.

And one of the most wonderful, pure joy bringing things about her is she's always curious. She stands on the windowsill in the morning when I wake her up or when I get her up and she waves to the world and she says, good morning world, good morning mountains, good morning ocean, all these things we can see from our window, good morning trees, good morning cars, good morning people. And I say to her, what do you want to know? Each day I ask her, what do you want to know today? She's never short of a question. Why is this G-DAD? Why is that G-DAD? We learn more between zero and four than we do the rest of our lives. If you live to 104, you'll learn more in

the first four years than you did in the next hundred. Just think about that for a minute. But we're not willing to question because we get in a groove. And we say, well, this is my groove, my niche. Well, let me just say to you that a groove is really a shallow rut and a rut is a shallow grave. So stay curious, my friends, stay curious. Not about whether you're doing it right or wrong, but is it aligned with your soul? Are you serving at a soulful level? What is the difference you could make if you're really tapped into your deep greatness? And as a final question to you, who will suffer if you keep playing small? That is a mic drop. Thank you.

Amazing, though. Thank you so, so, so much for this incredible interview. So honest and so inspiring. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure and honor. Thank you for inviting me to serve you, to serve your audience. And please, if you're listening and you're watching this feel free to reach out to me i know i'm a mishugan i'm a crazy person here's my email address dov at dov baron.com d-o-v at d-o-v-b-a-r-o-n.com i genuinely am interested to know what you got out of this and more importantly what you're going to do with it. And I want you to write to Ilana. Listen, she puts the time, the energy, the effort in to put this podcast together. It's a one-way street. You don't know this.

I have two podcasts. I know it's a lot of work. She puts these together. She brings in these guests. You know, we're not cheap for an hour of our time. You know, we don't give that away. And she's got us to give that away to you so you can get what you need to get. So write to her, tell her what you got out of the show. Share it with your friends. If you are, if you're not subscribed to a YouTube channel, subscribe, share it with your

friends. All these things make a difference. And it's a way for you to let her know that her efforts are valuable. So, you know, don't take it for granted. Be abundant and share in the world. Oh, that is so nice. And by the way the way when you do share things come back to you in multiples in multiples thank you dove that was beautiful and i appreciate it my absolute pleasure thank you