Leap Academy with Ilana Golan - If You Want to Have Life-Changing Conversations, Ask These Tough Questions | Topaz Adizes

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

After his parents’ divorce, Topaz Adizes discovered the power of connection through the camera. His drive to explore human connection led him to become a filmmaker. From filmmaking to his work with The Skin Deep, Topaz focuses on creating real, vulnerable conversations in a digital world. His viral documentary The And shows how shared space and honest dialogue can deepen relationships. In this episode, Topaz joins Ilana to discuss the art of asking questions that strengthen relationships and how to create space for hard but empowering conversations. Topaz Adizes is an award-winning writer, director, experience design architect, and the founder and executive director of The Skin Deep, an experience design studio. He has earned an Emmy for new documentary approaches, and two World Press Photo awards for immersive storytelling. In this episode, Ilana and Topaz will discuss: (00:00) Introduction  (01:37) Finding Purpose in His Parents' Divorce (04:27) The Lasting Impact of Divorce on Relationships (07:16) Why The And Documentary Went Viral (11:12) How Great Questions Create Great Relationships (12:28) Ways to Craft Questions That Yield Results (14:19) The Cost of Avoiding Difficult Conversations (18:16) Creating Space for Hard, Scary Conversations (24:16) Training Your Mind to Ask Empowering Questions (26:55) Crafting Questions That Drive Clarity and Growth (32:10) Five Questioning Strategies to Deepen Relationships (38:54) A Raw Father-Son Conversation on YouTube (41:47) Aligning Passion and Profit for Sustainable Growth (52:01) The Life Topaz Wishes He Had Embraced Sooner Topaz Adizes is an award-winning writer, director, experience design architect, and the founder and executive director of The Skin Deep, an experience design studio. He has earned an Emmy for new documentary approaches, and two World Press Photo awards for immersive storytelling. Topaz's work has been showcased at Cannes, Sundance, and SXSW, and featured in The New Yorker, Vanity Fair, and The New York Times. Connect with Topaz: Topaz’s Website: https://www.topazadizes.com/  Topaz’s LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/topazadizes/  Resources Mentioned: Topaz’s Book, 12 Questions for Love: A Guide to Intimate Conversations and Deeper Relationships: https://www.amazon.com/12-Questions-Love-Conversations-Relationships/dp/1632174901  The And Documentary: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4439128/  The Skin Deep YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheSkinDeep  The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce by Julia M. Lewis: https://www.amazon.com/Unexpected-Legacy-Divorce-Landmark-Study/dp/0786886161  Leap Academy: Ready to make the LEAP in your career? There is a NEW way for professionals to Advance Their Careers & Make 5-6 figures of EXTRA INCOME in Record Time. Check out our free training today at leapacademy.com/training

Your mind is a faithful dog. It will chase any stick you throw. Topaz Adidas. Today we're talking to an Emmy award-winning writer, director, Edmund Hillary Fellow. You are right now on a mission to create powerful human interactions in the digital age. I don't know even if I like humans.

We do some terrible things, but I love humanity. And what is humanity? Humanity is not what's in us, it's what's between us. If you see yourself in a negative mode, beating yourself up, you're asking a disempowering question. Should I fire this person? Should we launch the product or not?

Should I leave my job and start a startup? Okay, wait, change the question. Create a better, more specific, constructive question, and then the answer becomes obvious. How do you create the questions that actually start creating results? There are three exercises you can do. Let's start with number one.

Topaz Adidas. Today we're talking to an Emmy award-winning writer, director, Edmund Hillary Fellow. I mean, your work, Topaz, was selected for super prestigious festivals like Cannes and Sundance and so many more. And you are right now on a mission to create powerful human interactions in the digital age. How did this become a calling? How did you get started, Tapaz? I got started in my parents' divorce as a four-year-old. I got started feeling disconnected from the two people I love the most and who did not seem to find a way to connect. That's where this pain

became a hunger. And then in my 20s I was studying philosophy and was trying to find how I can contribute and I was really interested in cinema and the camera and talking to people, to ask questions, to have conversations, to feel a sense of connection to other people. And I would think, yeah, it's because when you're a kid and your parents get divorced and your world falls apart and you're looking for that sense of connection, that was my experience for me. And so then here I am in my 20s with a camera and I realized the camera is a bridge.

It's a door opener. You show up to someone with a camera and you ask a question. In some sense, it gives you a door opener. It's a bridge. So I became a filmmaker for 15, 20 years and then the last 10, 11 years with my experience design studio called The Skin Deep. I'm really interested in how the experience, 10, 11 years with my experience design studio called The Skin Deep. I'm really interested in how the experience, the emotional experience of being human is shifting.

And that's what I've been, my team and I have been exploring for the last 10, 11 years. I want to talk about The Skin Deep and The And, but let me take you back in time for a second, Topaz, and thank you for sharing. Talk to me a little bit about what came about, because again, it probably didn't process enough, or you felt you didn't talk to them enough. What came to you there, and why did that become

such a big motivator for you to open these conversations and to figure out the real truth now? I don't know. The makeup of my personality along with that experience of a feeling of lack of connection. So I went in the opposite direction. I searched for connection. I searched for intimacy.

And, you know, my 20s and 30s as I was exploring my own romantic relationships, I could feel the reverberations of the divorce in my own patterns, in my own way of how did I circumnavigate around people emotionally. I'm talking about the intimacy. I think in 2014, when you looked around the world at the time,

you saw how technology was shifting so much politics, it was shifting the financial currencies with cryptos coming out and dating. I mean, people using dating apps and it was really coming. I was single at the time in New York and I just saw how technology was shifting the way we were relating to one another. But at the core, if we go through this seed, I believe for me,

at least in the current understanding of my life and the current vantage point of looking back, is a sense of disconnection as a young child, trying to make sense of this huge world. And I think that there's a book that I read was super helpful for me. I don't remember the author, but it's the Unexpected Legacy of Divorce. I know it was super helpful for me because, you know, the underlying idea is that for those children who are, you know, the children of divorced families, in the back of your mind you have this sense that everything will end.

Whether it's a friendship, a romantic, or even a work partnership, you assume it will end. So whenever you're in a relationship of any kind, in the back of your mind you're like, okay, how's this going to end? And if you ask the question, how's this going to end? Well, there's multiple ways that it can end. But in the book, it says for those who do not come from divorced families, they don't have that conception of the world. Things don't necessarily have to crumble and fall apart. And I think that

is one effect that I saw as a linear effect from that childhood. For many of my 20s and 30s in relationships, it's always like, how's this going to end? So that doesn't bode well for the longevity of a relationship when you're looking at about how it's going to end because really you're trying to just protect yourself, right? But if you're protecting yourself, you also can't necessarily extend beyond the reaches of the wall that's protecting you. So you're limited in the emotional experience you can have because you are protecting yourself. You are both protected by the walls, but you're also captive to the walls that protect you. That's fascinating, Topaz, because I was exactly there.

Until I found my husband now, I was exactly this. I would push people aside, you know, in a way, because I knew that I'm basically shielding myself from that potential separation. It's incredible to hear you now. Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not shielding myself from that potential separation. It's incredible to hear you now. Yeah. I mean, look, I'm not a therapist. My experience comes from really being very curious of human nature and being able to create spaces where you could,

or one can have a real experience, and in this sense of the end. I've been honored and privileged to be in this space. team and i haven't been in all twelve hundred my team and i've been in the space for over twelve hundred conversations of all kinds of relationships in about ten countries. And that is where i come to now with my experience not only my life experience but obviously you know how many. People get to really see that many conversations between people in a real intimate way. And even if you think about therapists, therapists get to see a lot of conversations, but therapists are part of the conversation. They're guides within the conversation.

If it's a couples therapy, they're asking questions, they're guiding. Here, I pose the questions, you sit back, and the participants are having a conversation, and we witness that. And that's a really honored place to be in, and there's a lot of learning and illumination that comes up inevitably from being in that privileged position. And I wanna take you there, I guess for this reason,

but I wanna go there a little deeper, right? In 2015, if I'm not mistaken, you produced the documentary, The End, which honestly grew to become this viral sensation experienced by over 150 million people. Why do you believe this turned into such a success? And how did you have the guts to say, this is what I want to do? Why did it become a success? Why did it become viral success? Why did it become viral success?

Why did it speak to people? Because people in a digital world, they needed a sense of humanity. And we are the corner of the internet where you can get a digital dose of humanity. And the question is, what was this guy talking about? What is humanity? I don't know even if I like humans, to be honest. We do some terrible things, but I love humanity. And what is humanity? I don't know even if I like humans to be honest. We do some terrible things but I love humanity and what is humanity?

Humanity is not what's in us it's what's between us. When do you feel humanity in your life? When you have that incredibly intimate conversation with a total stranger like we used to be four phones and you're walking on the street or with the taxi cab driver before we were all lost in our phones in the elevator or the on the airplane or in the airplane or in that random moment, we had this conversation with someone and you sense a greater sense of us,

whatever that means, you're not alone. And you get a sense of this connection to humanity or you're in a sports team and you're all striving for the goal and you win or you lose and you sense this sense of connection, coherence with other people. Or you're in the business team and you're struggling to hit a quarter or something or

to get the product out in time or to make an incredible video game, whatever it is. And you succeed and you look at each other in the trenches. There's that sense of connection that there's something that we're doing together that we can't do alone. That's the sense of community or in your relationship. You get in a big fight with your partner. You only want to talk to them and you explode and you have a conversation. And at the end of it, you come back together and you sense, you know what?

We're stronger. I'm not alone in this journey of life. That sense, all this sentiment of coherence, resonates with other people because you're on a common journey. You're sharing an experience albeit unique to each one of us. That's what humanity is to me and I love it. It gives me a sense of greater amplification of what it means to be alive. And so that drew my interest into the end, which was what's the end?

The end is about the space between. Because a relationship is not you or I, us or them. It's you and I, us or them. It's you and I, us and them. It's the and that connects us. It's the and where humanity lives. So how do we cultivate that? How do we illuminate that? And that's what we've been able to do with the and because we bring people to a room, put them facing each other. We film it with three cameras. And for anyone listening, just go check us out on YouTube or TikTok or Instagram, wherever, and you'll see moments where people are faced and we show you both their faces at the same time. And that's what's important, it's both faces at the

same time. And we can talk about why that's important because very little footage these days of any type of immediate content, you never see both the speaker and the listener at the same time. Here we are showing you both because we're saying it's not just the listener that's as important as the speaker, it's both. Because everything we watch is just the speaker. You always see the person speaking. Anyhow, long story short, that's the end. And to me that cultivates the thing I love so much which is humanity. And the privileged position I've had from watching that is, oh I've over having 1, 1200 data points,

1250 data points over 11 years now, is how do you create the space to have these type of conversations that illuminate our shared humanity? So talk to us about this space, because I think again, you're gonna have hard conversation or crucial conversations everywhere you go.

You're gonna have it with your bosses, with your peers, with loved ones, with partners, with kids. What makes a space? Before we go there, I just want to frame it. It's not that it's about having hard conversations. I would suggest a formula like this. You hear Esther Perel,

who's the incredible thought leader in the space of relationships. She says, the quality of your life is commensurate to the quality of your relationships, right? The more quality relationships you have, the more the quality of your life. Okay, if we believe that's true, great, I believe it's true. Let's say that's true. Well, then what makes a quality relationship?

And one thing, one way to build and to cultivate a quality relationship is quality conversations. So one suggestion is quality. There's acts of service. There's the okay. But one of them is quality conversations. We're humans and we have the gift that we have language.

We can communicate these ideas and these feelings and communicate to another soul, to another heart and share that. We can communicate. We can have conversations. It's great. So what makes great conversations? For you, it's questions. Quality questions. Exactly. It is the space in which you hold those quality questions.

That's it. If you create the space, we can talk about what that means, and we construct really quality questions, we can have incredible conversations. If we have incredible conversations, we have incredible relationships. If we have incredible relationships, we can have incredible conversations. If we have incredible conversations, we have incredible relationships. If we have incredible relationships, we can have an incredible life. So talk to us more about these questions. And you have a full book on that, but talk to us a little bit about these questions,

because I think it's so important. People don't know what to ask and how to go there. If you're looking to have a conversation where you're exploring the grave, you're exploring your relationship, don't ask a binary question. If you begin a question with is, are, do, should, I don't care what comes after those words.

If you start anything with is, are, do, or should, it is a binary question. Is this the thing we should do? Are you in love with me? Do you love me? Do you think we're happy? Should we do that? Yes, no, done. Left, right.

You don't even have to tell me the question. Just tell me what the first word of the question is. Versus why, how, what, or in what way. You start that, you cannot give a binary response. You can't answer why do you love me with yes or no. You can say, I just do, that works. But I'm saying is that the invitation begins with the question and the big question even begins with the first word of the question.

And we are not taught in our society how to build good questions. I was just listening to a podcast with Elon Musk where he said, he says, of course, many times we answer the right answer, we find the right answer to the wrong question. We spend so much time on the answer. We don't spend time exploring the question. And much like a race is shaped by the race course that it's run on. Our answers are shaped by the questions we ask, and we do not bring enough

attention to the questions we ask in every facet, whether it's your business, whether it's how you speak to yourself or how you speak to your children, or how you speak to your partner. We don't pay attention to the questions we ask, and that is where 80 percent of the power lies. That's strong. I want you to tell me about one of those hard, maybe hard conversations,

and you don't call them hard, you call them good, deep conversations. Well, they can be hard for sure. But they can be hard, right? Absolutely. So I wanna talk a little bit about a hard conversation that you either witnessed or been part of that shaped your understanding that you need to,

I mean, it's a muscle that you need to build. And we're not born with that muscle. We're not taught this muscle. Can you share a moment? Yeah. Well, working startup. I know you talk a lot about startups and your own startup and other people and supporting them and coaching them in their own career paths. So when I started the skin deep 11 years ago, it was very scary

There was a lot that I didn't know I remember speaking to the lawyer who was very expensive because my investors suggested I get a very good Expensive lawyer because when we do exit or want a good lawyer and I was paying a lot for this gentleman's time and I remember getting on the phone with him. He said topaz you're asking these questions Are you gonna pay me $ hundred dollars to answer this question? Or you're gonna go Google and learn it yourself. Where do you want to spend your money? What do you want to spend your time? It's like wow great. I remember the day one

I took a selfie of me and my two team members at that time was Paige and her on And I took a picture selfie and I remember telling myself, remember this image because you are scared shitless right now. But we all know you're smiling because you're like the leader of the startup and you're not gonna show that you're scared shitless. But I took a selfie I can show it to you where I knew, I benchmarked that moment and say, this is awesome. I am going to photograph this moment Knowing that inside this smile behind this whatever face I'm posing. I am shitting myself

Because I don't know what I'm doing and none of that but I've taken on my friends and families and investors money and so in that process I Remember early on in like one two three years. There would be times you have a small team five six seven people and You could feel a tension with somebody on your team and you don't want to talk to them. You don't want to have to go in and lean into that uncomfortable conversation. And I just learned over time that the longer I didn't have that conversation with them, the more uncomfortable the relationship would become, the less flexible and capable We would be able to perform together as a team because our relationship was strained

I just saw it as a the sinews in your body like the muscles and the ligaments in your body if you don't stretch them They become cartilage. They become stiff and then what happens you don't want to rub it You don't want to strike why because it hurts, of course not but the longer you don't want to rub it. You don't want to strike. Why? Because it hurts. Of course not. But the longer you don't, the more stiff it becomes. So that ultimately you can't move. Right? So you're there. Figuratively, you have a cramp in your leg. You're in pain. You can't move because you haven't stretched for a month. You haven't dealt with it. Conflict. So that ultimately you have to deal with it. It's even more painful. And I realize, oh my gosh. When that comes up Approach it have the conversation now, of course many of us don't approach it because we don't the tools

We don't know and we could talk about that the tools are create the space You don't talk about what that means construct good questions but the point is I learned from hard conversations of being startup years that Initially they want to have them and if I didn't have them, the longer they festered, the more painful they would be later. And that is so, so, so important to pause. I actually do want to drill a little bit into this because the audience will actually find themselves in,

either they need to talk to their boss or their peers or to employees or whatever it is. And it is scary. And then you start pushing it and pushing it and pushing it and that just amplifies the problem, like you said, right? It's not gonna get better. What do you say to people? How do you create, again, the space, and how do you create the questions

that actually start creating results? Okay, so first, whatever it is, let's create a scenario where you have to go and let somebody off, let them go. Okay, so stop there for a second. First of all, what's the question you're asking yourself? You wake up, you know you have that 10 o'clock meeting, and you're probably saying, oh shit, I gotta do that.

Oh my God, I can't wait for that to be over. That line, I can't wait for it to be over. That line, I can't wait for it to be over, is actually an answer to a question you're asking yourself. What am I not looking forward to today? That I can't wait for it to be over. You are asking yourself a question all the time. So stop right there even before speaking to another person. Change the question you're asking yourself. How could I make this conversation the most usable or empowering for them and for me? How could I take this moment to actually develop a

stronger relationship with this other person on the other end that I'm letting go today? Everything. Ask a different question. If you see yourself in a negative mode, beating yourself up, you're asking an disempowering question. Because remember, your mind is a faithful dog. It will chase any stick you throw, and it doesn't care where you throw it. If you throw the stick into the mud, it will chase after the mud. If you throw up on a beautiful vista, it'll run up on the vista and look at the view wherever you throw the stick.

So if you say, what's the shitty stuff I have to do today? Great. Faithful dog will chase that stick. I'll tell you all the shitty things you have to do today. No problem. Faithful dog. But if you say, in today, in the challenging day that I have where I have a bunch of things on my list I don't want to do, where is the beautiful moment that will change me forever? What is the five minutes I can cherish the most? Okay. You just do the stick in a different direction and your dog will go find it. Your mind will go find it. So train your dog. The dog goes where you throw the stick. So throw the stick in beautiful places. What does that mean? Ask good questions of yourself. So you're going to that meeting instead of saying, oh shit,

you know, how am I gonna get through this or what? No. How can I make the most of this? And then, okay, so now, that's asking yourself that already changes your perspective on the whole experience. Because your mind is already coming with solutions. Right? Now, you go into the space. Number one is before you even ask questions, we have to create the space. Right? What I mean by that? Look, you don't sleep in the kitchen and you don't cook in the bedroom. You do certain things in certain places, right? Do we do that in our meetings at work?

Do we let them, hey, this is this kind of meeting. This is this kind of meeting. Do we create the space where we understand, oh, this is the behavior that is conducive to the space we're in, right? With some expectations. So when you create the space so that people understand what is expected of them or what is allowed of them, or more importantly, you're basically giving them permission to be,

then you're basically creating boundaries, right? You're creating a space. And in that space, people can feel safe, albeit, let's not be confused with safety and comfort. You're creating a space where people feel safe, but not necessarily comfortable. Let's not confuse comfort and safety. Safety is one thing, but comfort, I mean, the best place to be, frankly, is in a safe place where you are uncomfortable. Because then you're growing. Like, if I go bungee jumping, I'm definitely going to be safe.

I won't, because I'm choosing the right vendor who's got the right bungee cord. And in theory, I'm safe. I'm not going to hit the ground because they know what they're doing. So in theory, I'm safe, but I'm definitely uncomfortable because I'm jumping off a cliff or I'm jumping off the bridge. Absolutely. Right. But I'm going to have an incredible experience.

I'm going to feel more fulfilled. I'm going to come out going, wow, that was amazing. Okay. But it's a safe place where I'm uncomfortable. The same thing happens in relationships. The same thing can work. So creating a safe space is important. And what that means is, A, you create the boundaries.

You're getting permission from people. This is what happens in this space. And also, you're outlaying an intention. An intention is different than an agenda. An agenda is where you end up. An agenda is where you end up. An intention is where you begin. Ooh, powerful. Tell me more. Not to be confused with like an agenda for a meeting. Well, an agenda for a meeting generally is we're going to talk about this, then we're going to talk about this, then we're going to talk about this, then we're going to

talk about that, then we're going to talk about this. And ultimately you're saying we're talking about these things. You're basically giving them like these are the guideposts that were the items we're going to hit. What I'm saying is when we talk about each of those items, are you saying, team, the agenda is I want you all to agree that this is the right decision. Think about it. You bring your direct reports into a room or you go into a room, who is above you or whatever, and do they already know what they're going to do? And you know what they're going to do? And they're just here so that they feel Do they already know what they're going to do and you know what they're going to do and they're just here So that they feel good about telling you what they're gonna do or do they really want your opinion? And are we just here because they want us to get to where they want us to be and you feel it So you're not really showing up

Right, that's the intention. Yeah, or you as the boss you come in and are you really interested in what everyone else is say? Or you just want them to buy in and you're just playing the games that they buy in because you're already there? Right. That's an agenda. You know how it's going to end up. The intention is, okay, you show up and go, guys, we need to make a decision. I have a supposition about the decision,

but I need everyone here's fee buy-in and understanding and I could be wrong. Or I need to know if we're really right or if we tweak it. My intention is that we'll come up with a solution. Exactly what the solution is, I don't know. Now, you come from that space, it's an invitation for people to step in. An agenda is they feel like,

this is not an invitation to step in, this is an invitation to play chess. Political chess, emotional chess, whatever it is. So for me, there's two things that come up here when we're talking about this. So first of all, it feels like a little bit of a muscle when you wake up in the morning and you feel sorry, shitty, there's a lot of crap going on, right? How do you train yourself to ask better questions because your instinct is about, oh darn, I need to go through ta ta ta ta

ta. Your brain doesn't necessarily go to empowering questions, right? So how do first of all, do you build that muscle to start thinking about smarter questions, better questions? First, noting that it's a muscle. So that's great because what you practice that you get good. That's great because this is not like a talent thing. It's actually a practice of a muscle. Okay, so then you know you can get good at this. Then too, how do we practice it?

Great. Well, there's many ways, right? You can put the Post-it notes on your door, the window when you brush your teeth in the mirror in the morning. Okay, that's one way. You could have the little rubber band on your forearm. So you snap it and you snap yourself every time you're thinking negative thought and change the question. You can get a tattoo that has a question.

You can do a lot of things, right? The idea is, are you conscientious of it? That's number one. So now when we find ourselves going down that road, stop, turn back. I would just listen to a podcast where they say, was it yours? It might've been yours with an incredible guy with the incredible voice Brian Brian Tracy. Yeah The quickest path that be getting on the right path is when you realize you're on the wrong path and you turn around

So the fact that you're conscientious that you're doing it is number one and you take a pause and then you turn around you go Back on the right path, whatever the right path is But I'm saying is that you you know it's a muscle, so you practice it. Great, I can get good at this. Two, if I'm aware of it, then when I find myself happening it, then I can pause, turn around and move forward,

or going back in it, right? And I think that's it. The rubber band, the notes, just being aware of it. When you find yourself banging your head against the wall, it's because you're trying to answer a question. It's really difficult to answer. Don't stop banging your head against the wall it's because you're trying to answer a question it's really difficult to answer don't stop banging your head against the wall trying to answer that question change the question you're not asking a really good question when you ask a really well constructed question the answer is much more obvious and fluid and ease for we could talk talk about what that means, but I repeat,

if you find yourself banging your head, should I break up with this person? Should I fire this person? Should I hire that person? Should we launch the product or not? Should I leave my job and start a startup? I don't know. Okay, wait. Change the question. Create a better, more specific, constructive question,

and then the answer becomes obvious. Let's go there to pause because I think that's really, really interesting. And by the way, you have a full book about 12 questions for love. Talk to me a little bit about how do you construct better questions? Because I think we all want to, but we sometimes have no clue. So let's start with ourself and then let's talk about relationship. I think both of them to, but we sometimes have no clue. So let's start with ourself and then let's talk about relationship. I think both of them are very interesting for us.

Okay, so if you're asking yourself a question and it's not working as I just mentioned, right? There are three exercises you can do. Let's start with number one. Number one is I want you to brainstorm 30 other kinds of questions. And this is how you construct the questions. Here is the take home value, if you're listening,

because people don't talk about this. At least it seems that no one talks about it because when I talk about it, they go, oh, that really helps. Number one, you have three- I'm literally writing. Yeah, you have three gaps, okay? You're gonna have three fill in the blanks

for every question and you're gonna hang up with 30 of them. The first fill in the blank is time frame. What in the next three years? What in the next three months? What in the next week? What in the next six weeks? What in the next chapter? It has to have a time frame. Okay that's the first blank. The second blank is how does it make me feel? How does it affect me? That it makes me feel inspired? That it scares the shit out of me? That it's going to put me in a Bender financials position so I feel stable. That I'm going to learn something I've never learned before. That I'm going to be able to have the sense of teaching. Whatever it is. Second blank is how it makes you feel. The third one is how it affects others. So that I can

support my community. So that I can reinforce my relationship with my wife or be more intimate with my kids, so that I can support my parents who are sick, so that I can be a pillar of my community, such that I can tackle the problems in my world that I think are important, whatever it is. You have three blanks and you create 30 questions. You just brainstorm. Then you look at that list and you circle the one that gives you the most energy and inspiration. The one that you'd like. That's the one that on this finite time that I have on this planet as a human being for the right now. That's the one I really want to answer. You circle that one and then the answers are obvious. Let me give a really simple example. Should I break up with her?

Should I break up with him? Should I break up with her? Should I break up with him? Should I break up with this person? I don't know. Yes, no. Okay, stop. Come up with 30 questions and let's say you circle the one that you really like. Like, what in the next two years can I do so that I feel like I'm growing and challenging myself such that I'm a position to have a family life with my ideal partner. Okay, you circle that one. Now go, go, does this person fit into that question? Yes, absolutely. Like I'm comfortable and I want to be with them. And even though I do think that this is okay or no, not at all. They don't fit the family life. So no, they're out. Change

the question deep deepen the question. Timeframe, how it makes you feel, how it makes other people's feel. And then the answer becomes obvious. And the reason that we have a timeframe is because life is finite. It doesn't go on forever. You change, things change.

Where do we wanna live? Well, where you wanna live without kids or single is different with kids. It's different when the kids are 15. It's different when the kids are out of the house, it's different when you're now 70 or when you're not. So it changes, so give it a timeframe. How it makes you feel is important

because it gives you energy. And how it makes other people feel is because we are humans, we're in a relationship, we're in a community. If it's just about me, it's gonna get A, narcissistic, and B, it's gonna burn out. The energy is not resilient because it's not being recycled through other people. It's a value to other people. So you do that circle it.

That's one huge tool. And then there's two others. One is question loops. So the most famous question loop is why. Da da da da. Why. Da da da da. Why.

And you just keep asking the question. Why should Da da da da. Why? And you just keep asking the question, why? Should I quit my job? Why? Well, because I'm not feeling so much about it and I'm not sure why. Because, you know, I feel like a waste of my time albeit is supportive. Why? And you just keep saying why why why why? There's other questions that you can ask. Right? Like why? Then you go, well, because because this what would it give you? What would give me this what if you already have it? Well for habit I have here why?

What would it give you what if I already have it? Why and you loop that and see where you go and then the last one which is a plug for myself is One of my additions is these boxes are 200 questions that we sell in all kinds of relationships. One of them is a self-deck, questions to ask yourself. So you list out the question, the big question you're asking, the enigma, the challenge you're facing, then you randomly pull out questions that I ask and you answer those in relation to the big question.

And that helps elucidate the feelings you're having, the options you're having, the things you're concerned about, and that's a great way. You're shooting arrows of questions at the main enigma that you have, but a variety of them that are different and unique, and that helps you pull out the yarn, the string to pull apart the ball of yarn that's all confused. That's incredible, and that's such a powerful tool that we use in coaching, you know, and just seeing your questions are brilliant. Talk to me because you have these cards also for relationship, right?

And to better questions around relationship. These are questions that we need to ask ourselves first of all. And I think this is really important because if you ask yourself crappy questions, you're going to also ask the relationship around you, crappy question many times, but talk to us a little bit how this changes when you're talking about relationship and better questions around those relationship. For me, when I construct a question, my team, when we construct questions, we usually have five aspects that we try to place on the question.

At least five or most of them. The first one is don't make them binary. We discussed that. And you're saying why we can start to sometimes I'm talking about contracting questions where you're exploring your relationship with your stretching it where you're learning something new where you're I'm not talking about a conversation where you're into a space where you're making definitive decisions yes no we do this or that. I'm talking about the questions that elucidate your connection with other people to give you a sense of deepening your relationship to them That makes it more resilient more fulfilled those conversations a have a question. That's not binary

Because it ends. Yes. No left right done to have questions that are empowering. We talked about the dog chasing the stick. I mean, don't say, why do we fight so much? Because they're gonna tell you, well, we fight so much because they're like, instead, you can make it constructive, empowering, saying, what is our biggest challenge relationship right now? And what do you think it is teaching us? Because now we're going to, okay, well, it was teaching us.

Now it's more empowering. We're gonna get the answer, but we're gonna shift it into something that's empowering. What it was teaching us now. It's a more empowering we're gonna get the answer, but we're gonna shift it into something That's empowering. What is it teaching us or how is it making us better? How does conflict make us better third one is make sure that it's a connective question And what do I mean by connective is that it acknowledges the people in the conversation? so if I ask you Il, what scares you the most? And your best friend comes down the street and says,

Ilana, what scares you the most? And a stranger comes up and says, what scares you the most? You're going to answer to those three people, your best friend, me, and a stranger, the same thing. Snakes, or apocalypse, or whatever bank, I don't know, whatever it is. That scares me the most. It's the same answer regardless of who's asking it

What a missed opportunity ask a connective question that acknowledges the people in conversation. So I would change it to Ilana What do you think scares us both the most and that immediately requires you to acknowledge me and our relationship? most. And that immediately requires you to acknowledge me and our relationship and what you know of me. Thereby, you would not answer the same if I asked you that, and if your best friend down the street asked you that, and if a stranger asked you that. Because it acknowledges the unique makeup of our connection. So make the question connective. Make sure that it acknowledges the two of us are in conversation. The connection. Yeah, the connection. Amazing because that dictates also the intention that dictates what we're going through together.

In a business setting, what is the mission of the company? Well, you'll answer that question. Okay, instead make it connective. How do you think we both see the mission the same and different and whoever you're speaking to you you're gonna answer that differently because it's a different person, right? And then the fourth one is, and this is kind of two sides of the same coin, but make the questions connect to disparate ideas. They have to create a pause. It's really helpful when it creates a pause

so that you're actually exploring in a new space between two neural nodes. Connecting two neural nodes for the first time takes time. What do I mean? I mentioned before, how does conflict make us better? Or what about this for your coachings? What does earning money cost you? What does the pursuit of earning money cost you? What is your favorite lie you love telling yourself. And what is the truth? You hate telling yourself. It's like positive and negative.

It's putting two things together that we don't often ask. And the flip side of that coin is putting yourself or someone else in other people's shoes. So Ilana, what's the hardest thing being your friend? And then check this out. If we're in a conversation and goes, what do you think is the hardest thing about our relationship? For instance, this is a power play. Is that if I say,

what is the hardest thing about our relationship? I ask you that. That puts you in a position of power because you're going to say what is factually. But by me just adding, do you think or do you feel? This is your opinion. This is subjective. So when you're in a conversation, just adding do you think or do you feel, this is your opinion. This is subjective. So when you're in a conversation, just adding do you think or do you feel

to any kind of conversation, that's their perspective, that's their experience, that's their unique point of view and they have the right to that. Versus saying, hey, why do we fight so much, which is obviously not constructive, but what is the biggest challenge in our relationship? Versus what do you think is the biggest challenge in our relationship?

What is stopping me from success? What is stopping me from success? What is stopping me from hitting the sales goal and you tell me or versus what do you think is stopping me from stopping? right So just that player play helps but going back to things putting each in each other's shoes is really helpful and the last one Is simply if you can offer the questions as a gift And simply if you can offer the questions as a gift versus an agenda versus an attack obviously or as a chess match then people are more willing to open up and come and That means that you're asking the questions really out of curiosity

And I think that is key right the buzz and I think that's what you talked about the intention, right? I mean if we're coming with a very clear intention of I I'm just going to get rid of this and, you know, we're going to suffer through this together. We're going to part ways. It's a very different intention versus I'm going to come with a lot of love and curiosity to see if there's a way to make this better or if there's a way to make this. The agenda thing is that when anyone comes to you or you go to anyone, just think about when people come to you and you feel like they already know the answer. Or someone asks you a question and you feel like it's not a real sincere question.

It's really like it's a chess match. You're not really engaging with them. You're playing chess. So you're not thinking about the answer. You're thinking about what should the answer I give in lieu of the context of where of which that question came. So when you have an intention, it's like an open space where you don't know where you're going to end up, which is a vulnerable act, but that vulnerable act invites other vulnerability out.

And sometimes that's what we need to have. Often that's what we need to have. Matter of fact, I think we need to have that more. And that's why it's the work that I've been doing. I actually want to take you there because I think what you just said is so, so, so critical because I think it's the difference between am I listening to only my questions and what am I saying next?

Or am I actually present in a conversation? And I want to take you there for a second because you actually had, for me, it was a powerful conversation on your YouTube channel with your father. Your YouTube channel has over almost a, YouTube channel has over almost a million subscribers. It's called the Skin Deep YouTube channel. And you are not afraid to ask your father some really, really hard questions, which I think a lot of us are shying away from, especially with parents, especially with loved ones.

We try to go through life ignoring some of these, but that actually just stretches the wounds. Can you talk a little bit about that, Fuzz? I did two conversations with my dad five years apart. And actually, the first one we did 10 years ago, but my team members forgot to hit the audio record button. It was like an amateur. Wasn't able to post that one, but we do have five years ago and the year ago.

So five years apart, the questions are provided. You know, they have to be surprises. So there's rules in the space of the end, right? Where I can't know what the questions are and neither can my dad. So our colleague at the time, Rosie, she wrote the questions and they're beautiful. And the reason that I can't be the one asking the questions of being in the experience is because there's no equanimity Because then I'm in control because I'm writing the questions So I have to be just as surprised my father that creates a safe space of equanimity, you know

I think look I can't have the conversation with everyone my family it's a testament to the relationship I have with my father that we can sit and discomfort and also allow the autonomy of the other person's opinion. For me, my father is one of the coolest, most interesting, charismatic, unique souls that I've come across in my life. And I wanted to obviously have the conversation with him, but in terms of publicly sharing it because I'm a very private person,

I didn't really want to do that. But then again, you know, if I'm going to talk the talk, I need to walk it too. And if I've been privileged to have all these incredibly courageous people to step into the ant and share a bit of themselves and their relationships with each other and with the public, I should do the same. And so I did. And fortunately, my father agreed to it as well. But there's two conversations. One, what, five years ago before, two weeks before I had life threatening surgery. And then, what, last year.

Now that, and the law changed in those five years. It became married. It became a father. But look, I can't have that conversation with other people in my family, for instance. Not as a judgment call, but people's ability to sit in discomfort, I think is also commensurate to the quality of their experience of living. That's my opinion. And I don't mean as a judgment call better living or worse living.

I just mean the depth of the emotion of which you experience in the act of living. It's deeper. Why? Because you're sitting more discomfort. Amazing. So Topaz, what drives you every day to work on skein deep, to work on the YouTube? I mean, entrepreneurship is hard, right? I mean, there's just a lot of things going into it. What drives you? I'm passionate.

I love what I do. I get a lot of energy into it. What drives you? I'm passionate. I love what I do. I get a lot of energy from it. It was not sustainable for a long time. And it was not sustainable because I had an unhealthy relationship to money. And then basically I had to do a substitution. It wasn't money, it was energy. And when I understood it was energy,

what that meant for me was, okay, I wanna put something out into the world. It's a lot of energy. Hopefully it has enough value in the world such that more energy comes back. So that I'm not depleted, but I actually get more energy. Such that I can put more energy out into the world. Now that excess energy, some people call profit. You invest into something, a service or a product, you put it out into the marketplace,

you're offering value to people, you get paid for that and hopefully get in excess of the energy and the amount that you put in. And with that excess energy, that profit, you then are able to put more out into the world that can offer more value. And when I was able to do that substitution, I was able to move more freely from the vantage point of an artist, because an artist wants to create value all the time, in my opinion, but they're not looking at sustainable value over time. And I was putting a lot of things of value that were winning awards and people loved, but there was no business model and not excess energy was coming back, no profit was coming back.

So I was getting depleted. And in the end, I couldn't walk the 10, 15 minute walk. It took me from my home to my office. And when I was done, I had to jump in an Uber and pay the $10, take a five minute Uber ride back to just put on crickets in my New York Brooklyn apartment because I was burnt out, man. I was living in New York for 18 years.

I was running a startup for eight at that point and I was burnt out. For me, it was making that substitution like, no, I need to change. It's not just about putting out value and just not getting things back. I need the excess back. That excess is not profit, it's energy. Why? Because I could put more out in the world that I think of value. Because what drives me is not money, it's value. And I mean value in more artistic

sense of putting out there that things that I think are important. Tapas, can we go there for a second? So one of the things that our listeners will relate to, and I personally had this issue because I had this big heart, I would volunteer and mentor and advise people and advise companies and go and hustle and do all these things. But at the end of the day, I would come home and I was just like, how much money did you make this month? Zero, great job, Ilana, let's go, right?

And it took me a couple good years to learn how to actually build a business, have a better relationship with money, not being afraid of charging money because it's aligned with value. So can you speak to that for a second, Tupaz? Because I think that relationship was money. It's one of the harder relationships that we have, too. There's relationship to money and then there's a relationship to business, right?

Cause money, you could be a freelancer. I mean, I was a freelancer, director and cinematographer and editor for years. And I was still dealing with this problem of my relationship to money. But then I started a business and that also had a whole other relationship to business, which is how do you show up as a leader? How do you create the space to enable people to deliver the most, not just for themselves, but also for the sustainability of the enterprise that's collected? Because for many years for me, the most important thing was each individual's path. But then the actual company itself was not sustainable and I had to carry it. And then,

you know, I'm facing tons of debt or I'm facing tons of channels and everyone goes and I'm left holding the ticket in my hand and I have children and like, wait a second. And there was a long journey. It's 11 years. Yeah, and I think I've worked in three offices in my life. One was in university. I had a summer internship at Idea Lab under Bill Gross and it was really really hard for me showing up to an office as awesome as that place was. Just like I couldn't be at the same desk from nine to five every day.

And then there were two directing jobs I had where same thing, until you were on set in prep and everything. You know, you're showing up to a desk and you're nine to five. And I found myself that I would get the work done half the time and the other half the time I was pretending to work. This is something I can't do. I cannot spend my life pretending to do the job. I can't waste the most important valuable finite thing I have is my time, is anyone's time. So it was really difficult for me. So for me, it was always like either on my own as an independent contractor or then 10 years

ago, I said, okay, I'm gonna start a business. And that's been a long up and down journey. And I think, I mean, I've learned so much I've learned just because it doesn't happen when you want it to happen, does not mean it's not going to happen. It's just not going to happen on your time frame. So be patient. Don't beat yourself up. Be resilient. This is a marathon. It's not a sprint. There's ebbs and flows. When it ebbs, prepare for the flow. When it's flowing, prepare for the ebbs.

My dad has a great line. He has two. Well, I think one of them is probably cliched. He's like, fire, higher, slow. I think that's like a well-known line. And then the other one, maybe it's also well-known. I don't know if he often used, but the one he always told me is like, if you're not growing, you're dying. Hmm. I like that. Yeah. Well, we're good here. We're staying here. Well, then you're dying.

If you're not growing, you're dying. And not to be confused with what does growing mean. Growing doesn't mean necessarily going up. It might be meaning going deeper. It doesn't necessarily have to mean you have to increase your sales numbers. Maybe it just means increase your EBITDA, increase your efficiency. It does not always mean I don't in this kind of manner like we have to get bigger and bigger. Because I think your goals also change. I, your goals change and maybe your goals is actually to create more balance because you have a new kid.

It can be many things as long as you are very intentional and strategic about your goals and how you create them, not just the paycheck, but the life that you're creating with it. Absolutely. I'm going in my head because I just had a conversation with a very good friend of mine a week ago and He's a very successful editor and he's looking for another business of passive income on the side And so he wanted to pick my brain because he'd see me do that journey right for the last 11 years and it's interesting I kind of walked him through the

Process in my mind which was interesting because the first time I really shared it because first time someone asked. But what came up was what she said is like, the first thing is what is it that you want? What's the question you're asking yourself, right? I mean, there's many ways you can go off and try to, and make money, but to what end? What will you do with that money to do what? Because maybe you have that, you know?

It's like the famous thing, like, well, I want to make money so I have free time. do what? Because maybe you have that, you know? It's like the famous thing like, well, I want to make money so I have free time. Well, right now, do you have free time? I have lots of free time. Well, then what's the problem? You know, if you're working really hard, I have free time, but you have to be like, what is it? It's not just that. Is it something else? So number one is, what's the question you're asking yourself? And then number two, for me was the Venn diagram. In terms of what career path, what should start business, and what degree, is where do you feel you get energy from, and where do you feel you offer value?

Where do those two overlap? And then anyways, I continue him down on a journey and business model, blah, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, like what someone else is saying, hey, we want to grow this exponentially and then make an exit. Okay, great. Why? Well, no, but we wait many of us are finding ourselves answering questions that are given to us by our friends our Culture our parents and actually not of ourselves. You want to grow this to be exponential so you can why?

So because that's because the line you hear on social media and that's what everyone else is doing Is that because that's because the line you hear on social media and that's what everyone else is doing? What is it that you want? What is the question you're asking yourself that gives you the answer of what it is you want? And then let's shape your business around that. And I love that Tupaz because I think we're putting a lot of focus in Leap Academy and the programs themselves to really ask these questions. And how do you find clarity? How do you find where you want to go? What are your must haves? What's critical for you? And again, some people are driven by legacy

and thought leadership and fame and freedom, whatever it is for you, nothing is bad. As long as you're willing to look in the mirror and say, this is what I'm chasing, now let's go get it. Exactly, it's like, you might have the same answer to two different questions, but the energy, how it flows through the system is different because you ask a different question. Example, I have a brother, super talented musician, genius level musician. For many years, he was making his music. Why? Because he had to prove himself to his dad. Oh, that sounds familiar.

That was exactly me. I was exactly me same thing Okay, so you're making music and this is just very simple example, but it might as well have been me making films same thing To prove yourself to your father Okay, so imagine that energy and the knees the emotion going into it of the struggle if it doesn't succeed it Then it's a reflection of out, okay, I'm making films, he's making music, trying to prove yourself to your father. Okay, there's a lot of energy that's not being really efficiently used.

Then you ask different questions, you know what? What is it that I love? I love making films, I love making music. Why? Because I love how it shines on people, great. So do the same thing, but ask a different question. Not how do I prove myself to my father, but how do I do more of what I love how it shines on people. Great. So do the same thing, but ask a different question. Not how do I prove myself to my father, but how do I do more of what I love? You're still making music, you're still making films,

but it's coming from a different place. It's coming through a different system. If energy flow is efficiently flowing through the system, so you have more energy to do the output. And I think usually we end up with, what's your advice to your younger self? And I feel that's probably one with, what's your advice to your younger self? And I feel that's probably one of the interesting advice from you. Is there anything else that comes to you

that you would catch yourself and tell yourself and wanna make sure that our listeners are getting from you? One of our questions that we ask. Which is yourself, right? Yeah, exactly. Is that if you could go back to any point in time, where would you go? When would you go? And what would you tell yourself?

Because it's different, right? And the other interesting question is like, okay, if the topaz or the Alana five years from now was here right now, what would she tell you? From the future? Forget the past. What would the Alana from the future tell you right now? I love that question, by the way. And I think she would tell me that I'm badass and kick ass and be patient. Exactly. She'd tell you, relax, you're doing great. You're doing wonderful. My would be

like, Topaz, don't stop flossing. Keep flossing. Take care of that. And more green tea, Topaz, please. I love this. Yes. But where would you go back in time? I think one day I'm going to die of nostalgia. Since having children, it's much better. But before I had children, nostalgia was very hard for me. So that's why when you ask me to go back, there are probably many points. I mean, I'd like to say I don't have many regrets. I do have the thing that I haven't made the most.

I haven't made the most of my time in terms of reading as many books, paying attention to as many of the beautiful things in this world like food and art and music and nature. I study philosophy at Oxford and Berkeley. I wish I'd read more of the books. I wish I read more of the books. I wish I spent more time. But then again, yeah, it doesn't everyone say like youth is wasted on the young. You're young, give all this energy you can. But yeah, I wish I spent more time reading the riches of humanity, the literature, the music, the books,

and really plugged that into my brain more. Because if I did that, I would have much more informed opinions now, or positions now, or God knows how that would have shaped my outlook on life and what I could share here with you now. What would you tell yourself? I would tell myself to first of all ask more help. I was the person that would never ask for help no matter what. I thought that I'm very strong if I persevere through things and the truth is I just moved slower. If I had known a tenth of what I know now, I know we would have been a billion dollar company by now, but I think this is the muscle

I needed to build to be where I am today and I'm really really proud, you know, Inc. 500. Like I'm really proud of what we achieved and I wish I had asked for help a lot earlier in my career. So for me, that would be the big one. You know, it's funny you say that because when you said the billion dollar thing, what hit me was the idea that billion, 100,000, 1 million, eight, whatever, these are just numbers, these are digits, right? But they represent something deeper. They represent what you become.

They represent lives. The experience you become. But the life is like, what are you learning? You know, like you said, like I couldn't, but I had to learn the things I had to learn. So it's like, it's a signpost, but actually what it is, it's like a becoming. In order to be in that place, you're learning things and you're becoming. At the end of the day, it's a number, but what is not just a number is the things you've learned, the relationships you've built, what you've become as a human.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and I think for me it's also life changed, experiences that you're open to. Like suddenly two weeks ago, I gave a lecture in front of Richard Branson, his son and his nephew. I mean, it's a pinch me moment. 10 years ago, did I ever see that coming?

No, that wasn't even in the dreams, right? So for me, it's one of those moments that what else is available if I just do more, get more done, create the incredible team that I have, you know, and I'm so grateful for them and what we're achieving and all the hundreds of clients a year that we have. And I'm saying to myself, how much more is possible? And again, it's one small step at a time because we're just impatient people. Right. But thank you so much for this incredible, oh my God, I took so many notes.

I was just like, this is awesome. Thank you for sharing all these beautiful questions. I do believe so much of it is the questions that we create for ourselves. And it's a GPS and it's such a powerful GPS that we're not leveraging enough. And I wanna just thank you for sharing all these beautiful insights and tips.

Well, thank you. Thank you for the space, Ilana. Thank you for the time.