Leap Academy with Ilana Golan - Running Towards the Most Dangerous Places on Earth - Itai Anghel

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

What makes someone go to the most dangerous places on earth?Itai Anghel is a very different correspondent who has to be on the ground. In this episode of the Leap Show Ilana and Itai discuss how to become unstoppable in the face of fear in order to create an impact and align with your calling.Highly recommend to view this specific episode on our YouTube channel:https://youtu.be/5J8MYRKWTlM More about Itai's work: Ukraine - Alone in Donbas / The mayhem of Bakhmut - https://vimeo.com/809552742 Ukraine - The battle of Kyiv (Emmy nominated documentary) - https://vimeo.com/705767496Password: Uvda2022  Itai Anghel - TEDx talk: https://youtu.be/WzxmbfdyEUo Itai's complete showreel - https://vimeo.com/154967647 About Ilana Golan & Leap Academy:Website - https://www.leapacademy.com/Follow Ilana on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ilanagolan/YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@ilanagolan-leap-academy

When I came to Kiev, it was a day before the war began. And then, you know, some Ukrainian friends took us for a drink. And they told us, listen, it is ridiculous that you came here because nothing is going to take place. And then they raised a toast for the, you know, war correspondents who came to cover the peace. I mean, they were laughing at us. And I called my editor and told her, listen, I think it's a big mistake that we are here. I should go back to Israel. It's a waste of money. It's a waste of time. And within six hours, the war began. Welcome to The Leap Show. In The Leap Show, we're here to bring experts from around the

globe who share inspiring stories, concrete tips and insight on what helped them become the best version of themselves and who they are today and create the incredible life that they wanted. Subscribe and follow us, share this with friends who are also driven and aiming for more because you'll hear stories and tips that you'll hear nowhere else. Hi, I'm Ilana Golan, CEO of Leap Academy, which helps driven professionals reinvent, leap their careers to the next level. Now let's get started. Oh my God, guys. So I first met our first guest when he was giving one of the most inspiring keynotes and lectures that I've ever seen. And I was sure that he's insane. When you're going to hear him today, I'm sure you'll think he's insane. Mithi TaiAngel, he is one of the top journalists

for by far in Israel, but in the world, won countless surprises. I'm not even going to attempt to read all of them. And his latest documentary, which we'll talk about from the frontline of Ukraine, right there in the war, when everybody is running away. He is running into the war, is nominated for the Emmy Award. He's really known to go extremely deep and explore some of the most dangerous hotspots in the world and around the globe, covering places from Ukraine and Croatia and Bosnia and Pakistan and Afghanistan and North Korea and Gaza and Egypt and Iraq and Syria. I mean, among so many others. And I can't even try to read all of them. Sometimes I feel I'm the luckiest man in the world.

I see the most interesting places, meet the most unique individuals, in the most extreme situations. It's not just about conflict and war, but sometimes, I know I've been fortunate to stay alive and tell the story. My name is Itay Engel.

As a journalist, I prefer to be on the ground, in the field, where the action is really happening. That is not Iran. No. That is not Khomeini. No. That's the people looking for freedom. For the past 25 years, I've been trying to go everywhere. I am so honored to meet you, Itay. Have you here with our audience. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Ilana. Thank you for the kind words. It's a pleasure to be with you. Yeah,

amazing. Amazing. So seriously, the first time we met, I heard your talk, and I think nobody could even breathe. How does someone decide to go to the most dangerous places in the world? When you come to think about it, most of the historical events are taking place uh unfortunately through wars battles revolutions so this is the time when i want to be there and this is the time when the story of the people need to be told i mean these are the people that we israeli people jewish people grown upon you know what happened to our nation, what happened to other people. Someone had been there to cover it, to document it.

I mean, if I think about answering your question, think about in the 40s, one correspondent or a cameraman or a camerawoman, because there are women in this line of job exactly like there are men, and they would say, oh no, you know, like,

death camp is too much for me. I will not go there. It is too dangerous. It is too difficult to digest. You wouldn't have anything, you know, any document from these horrifying events because there is such a chaos. I mean, you need to have, like, real journalism over there. So as long as I have, you need to have like real journalism over there. So as long as I have, you know, the physical ability,

the mental ability, I will keep on doing it, yeah. And that's incredible because, and we'll talk about fear because I think that, you know, the question is inevitable, but share for a second a hard moment and how did you cope? Because you're seeing some of the hardest thing in the world it's one thing like you said to talk about it it's something very very different to be there see the people understand their journeys so share with us for a second just to make sure the audience understand what you're looking at i mean in my last journey inside Ukraine, I was very deep in the front line with

people, soldiers, Ukrainian soldiers, like 800 meters from the Russians. And we were fired upon from everywhere, like rockets, missiles, sniper fire, drones, suicide drones. And you talk to people and realize that death is all around. Everyone knows about 30 or 40 people that have already been killed. There is more than a quarter of a million people who were killed in this war. It's not like a war that we are used to have here in Israel. And it is all around you. Everything is moving, like the earth is moving. The sound is too difficult to cope. Once I have the camera, I have something to hold. I have something to occupy myself with. I have something to aim. So it enables me to work, work like crazy and not to think. I mean, I am thinking a lot.

I think a lot before I go to places. I think much more after watching what happened there and reflecting a lot about it. But there are some points in time when the best is not to think, not to reflect, because, you know, reflecting about where I am will lead to a heart attack immediately. So I need to work and I need to occupy myself. And if you will watch me while working, you will think, oh, this guy is mad because the situation is completely, completely insane.

And I'm very efficient in my work. You know, I take all the angles with my camera. I move like to all places. When I see it in the editing room and in the editing room, I'm not in that field mode. You know, I'm relaxed. I'm having coffee and i see this crazy man crazy guy this is me like there is really a very very different mode that i'm

getting in none of my friends here you know would recognize me uh in the field while working and this is i gotta tell you i gotta admit it is something that i like the size of this this side of me that i was not aware that exists actually i'm the last one whoever thought that i would be able to do this uh line of job like i'm not a macho i'm coming from israel but i've never been in a fighting unit you know i'm kind of a skinny person you know when i'm going inside places you know i'm like the less machoistic figure over there. I got to admit, first I thought it is sort of a disadvantage. But then you realize that once you don't look intimidating,

and I haven't got the look of a big macho, people are relaxed with my presence. And especially the civilians, women, children. I haven't got the look of the intimidating type. So imagine a woman, God forbid, was raped, a child was attacked. You know, when they see like a big masculine man, it might be even a correspondent or a cameraman, immediately there is fear over there. Even if this cameraman is beautiful, kind, you know, and soft person, you know, only the look can be intimidating. That's how you connect. And that's why your documentaries are so real, which we'll talk about it in a second. But I have to still go back to fear, right? Because, again, it's one thing to want to go to the inside. It's something completely different to hear some of your stories of how you saw somebody beheaded and somebody, you know, and again, when everybody's running away, you run to words.

Talk to me a little bit about fear. How do you cope with it? My grandfather, he had a big influence on me he came to israel 100 years ago he built actually the first israeli port you know the stones over there that enable uh you know this uh first community to survive and to breathe and he escaped from the soviet union and he had like a crazy story of how he managed to escape. He risked his life. And for me, you know, I didn't get it.

You know, why did he do it? It was so dangerous to him. And then he told me something, and he told it in the Russian language. It's like, sorry for my accent, which means the eyes are afraid, but the hands are doing. Like everything that you think that it is absolutely crazy to do, it's like insane, it is so frightening, stop thinking, start doing.

It sounds strange in theory, but once you practice, you realize, yeah, that's life. So this is the most important lesson of my life. It is the most important lesson of my life it is the most important sentence of my life you know it's a russian phrase but it became like the most important thing for me and every time you know with action you cope by being active by so that's your coping basically yeah because if i keep on thinking and reflecting again it will lead me just to lose it completely so it's like diving inside a situation and i've been doing it ilana for the past 32 years so you realize you know after one year two years 20 years that it's the right method

right and and i also have to and i hope it's okay to talk about it because, you know, I think being an Israeli and going to some of these countries, it's exponentially more dangerous and more risky than any other nationality. And you're going to places that I don't even know how you do it. Right. So what can you share a little bit? Because that's a whole new element that I think most of the audience doesn't even realize. Share a little bit. Yeah, that's right. I mean, once when I began, it was Bosnia. OK, it is a very dangerous war, Haiti,

Chechnya, Afghanistan, or Congo, but then came in different challenge, you know, when history came to my neighborhood, the Middle East, and a lot of revolutions unfold in front of my eyes, like in Tunisia, in Libya, in Syria, in Egypt, and I want to go there. The problem is, you know, if I go to places like Syria or Lebanon or Iraq, and people would realize that I'm an Israeli, it would be quite severe, to say the least. So I need to hide my identity. First of all, I have really

the sense that I need to do it. Because you mentioned, I'm doing it mainly for the Israeli people. And the Israeli people, unfortunately, you know, they live by the stereotype that anyone beyond our border is a pure enemy. They don't know anyone in Syria.

They don't know anyone in Iraq, but they're absolutely sure that these are bad people, enemies. And most of the information they get, when you think about it, is coming from these commentators. By the way, very intelligent people, most of them, but they talk when you think about it, about places they've never been in, again, commentating about people they never met. They are convincing you when they talk, you know, because they are very impressive and they are very intelligent, but they've never been there. And again, once you are in there, you realize that a lot of your thoughts were stereotypes, and you need to change everything. You need to be open to everything. So once I'm there, it is very important because I make Israelis think again.

I'm not saying that I want to change, you know, completely their point of view, but let me show you how it is, like how it looks like for real through my documentaries, how it looks like from within. Now, I have to hide my identity. I have a foreign passport, which enables me to make like the first step inside this country. And you mentioned fear. I try to look as if I'm not afraid. And I tell you why. Because the things that attract the most attention is when you look very much alarmed. Like, look at my face.

Look at my eyes now, you know. I look like someone who has done a bad thing. This is the look, you know. This will be the interpretation of the locals, you know, if they see someone with this expression on his face. Who is this guy? What's his story? And I know that if someone will ask, what's my story? It's beautiful that I have a foreign passport. We live in a technology that, you know, they can take a snapshot of me, they can Google it, and they will see photos from my bar mitzvah. So I don't want, you know, to create any curiosity surrounding me. And when you look cool, even if you're not inside, I'm not inside.

I'm frightened to death, by the way. But on the outside, I have to look as if everything is fine. Even if people are burning Israeli flag, American flag, I go there, I speak with them, see if it has nothing to do with me. Like I'm going and I'm taking everything that is Israeli, like, out of my entity. My attitude will not be an Israeli one.

Because we were taught in a very specific manner. We have logic here that we were taught, you know, in Israel, for the good and for the bad. But we are Israelis. And a lot of Israelis, you know, think that everything evolved around Israel. And we are very suspicious, you know, when someone arrives in Israel,

when someone is getting to a mall, you know, is being checked and everything. So you need to think and you need to rethink and you need to act in a different manner. So I really, you know, pull off my Israeli entity on the technical side, on the psychological aspect. And this is how I cope. And this is how I manage to talk to people. By the way, I like people very much. And I think it is even easier, you know, with people from my neighborhood, because we might be enemies, you know, at least the government, the regimes.

But, you know, whether you like it or not, we are very close to each other. Think about the food. Think about the kind of music. Think about, like, the bedwars that we are using. A lot of similarities. So even part of my behavior would be closer to someone from Syria than, you know, my behavior of someone from Switzerland to the one from Syria. So everything, you know, become much easier.

And I can speak a bit of Aramaic, so I can communicate as well. So this is something that I did, you know, that I'm most proud of, like to make people here think again of who the neighbors are. And that's incredible. So, and I think you're right. There's nothing like actually bringing the real stories and the connection. And there's a beautiful book called Alter Ego that kind of talks a little bit about how do you put that cape and suddenly you're a little bit of a different person. But I have to ask because with a family it's very different than without um does that change it took me some

time you know to get married and to have my child i did it when i was 49 years old by the way there are quite a few of my colleagues that still don't think about children and i can absolutely understand why because you have a different responsibility now in life it's not only your passion and not even what you believe in might worth you know living child by himself with his mother it made me think and rethink a lot about what I'm doing and again I believe so much in what I'm doing so my wife know exactly who she had married. You know, there was never an ultimatum like stop doing it or I'm walking away.

By the way, if she is going to say such a sentence, I will stop everything. Because when my wife is angry, I'm frightened more than I am while in Syria, in the war zone in Ukraine. I'm joking, half joking. But I mean, when my child was born, so again, my wife doesn't present any ultimatum, but are you sure you want to go there again? And I do go there again. But I limit myself. So you do not see it. You know, when you watch my documentaries,

you see only how deep I penetrated in, but you don't see where I told myself, no, I'm not getting in. And there are quite a lot of places because the decision-making is not only to go to Syria or to go to Iraq, but within Syria and within Iraq to keep on going. Again,

I didn't want to go to Bakhmut. Bakhmut is the most dangerous city in Ukraine, maybe in the world, in the planet. And then I decided to go to Bakhmut, and I did. But then, you know, there was a specific neighborhood,

very close to the Russian snipers, and there was a colleague of mine, a woman, cameraman, photographer, sorry. And she said, Ita, are you coming over? I'm going there. And I told her,a, are you coming over? I'm going there.

And I told her, listen, you're absolutely crazy. I'm not. And she went on and I stayed. Luckily, she managed to came back. But that was a point that I told myself, no, I'm not going there. So there are more actions like of limiting myself than I used to take, you know, before I had a child. Yeah. But the decision is to keep on doing it still. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. And I think that's incredible. And I appreciate the honesty. And what you're talking about is this incredible documentary that you have now that

is called Last Stop Before Kiev, right? Which is nominated to, you know, the finalist of the Emmy Award, which is incredible. Share a little bit about what does it take to create a documentary at that level and to actually be nominated, which is such a big deal. I didn't know if we will have a film, if we will have a documentary, if we will have anything. I mean, this documentary, I think what makes it special is that we didn't have any idea of what is going to take place next. So we were, you know, as we say in Hebrew, zomim, like go with the flow, like being knocked out from here to that place, from that place to this place. Everything is a complete surprise from the moment it began.

You know, when I came to Kiev, it was a day before the war began. And then, you know, some Ukrainian friends took us for a drink. And they told us, listen, it is ridiculous that you came here because nothing is going to take place. And then they raised a toast for the, you know the war correspondents who came to cover the peace. I mean, they were laughing at us. And I called my editor and told her, listen, I think it's a big mistake that we are here. I should go back to Israel. It's a waste of money. It's a waste of time. And she told me, you're already there, so be there one or two more days. And I told her, listen, I know this job. I've been covering world conflicts

for three decades. Nothing is going to be here. Like me, I know. Okay, she said, you know, let's wake up tomorrow and start back your things. And within six hours, the war began. A complete surprise. And it took us by surprise the way it took the Ukrainians by surprise. So we are reacting in the same manner. In this documentary, I will never show or I will never pretend that I know what's going on. Like I'm in a complete surprise and I've thrown, you know, to the first bomb, to the first falling of a building, to the first victims, to the first bodies. And then, you know, a Russian convoy is on its way to Kiev. This is why I call it last stop before Kiev, because they are very close. 64 kilometers, like it's more than 50

miles of armored vehicles. And then the US intelligence, the British intelligence, and the Israeli intelligence are saying the same thing. You know, within 72 hours, there will not be Ukraine. Ukraine will cease to exist within three days. And we decide, no, we will not run away. We will stay here. So we decided to stay in Ukraine. And then, you know, another big surprise. The Ukrainians are managing to hold the Russian attack and the Russian artillery back. So everything was like from one surprise to the other surprise to the next one. And we are going from these places, their names are Irpin and Butcha, also where people were massacred by the Russians before they left. And I just want, you know, just to sleep.

You know, it was too much for me, The bodies, the atrocities, the smell. I just want to lie down and rest a little bit. But then we get a phone call. Please hurry up. Rush to the government office. There is a very important meeting that you're going to have. They did not even say that it is going to be the president of Ukraine, Zelensky. The rumor was that he had already left Ukraine.

So we are going there, you know, they're covering our eyes in order not like to lose any notion of where we are. And then he appears, you know, it was a huge surprise for me. So all of a sudden, I see Zelensky. And all of a sudden, we realize that Ukraine maybe can win and Russia can lose and the world understands and they start helping Ukraine. So it is an opportunity for me to ask him about whether he tried to ask for a military assistant from Israel and he's a Jew. So there is a connection probably between him, the Jewish guy, to the Jewish nation. And, you know, to hear his reply, it's not something pleasant. You know, the first phrase, his first sentence while answering me is, I'm going to tell you.

It will sound very insulting for you and your country, but I think that I have to tell you. And then he says, you know, he's asking for help, but Israel decided not to help. So then, you know, he's asking for help, but Israel decided not to help. So then, you know, within my documentary, it's an opportunity also to show Israelis what's happening here in Ukraine. And when we are saying we will not provide, you know, the aid that Ukrainians want for us, what it means in terms of people dying and how much we can do more. I mean, this is history in the making, and we are on the wrong side of history,

and we might change it. So again, it is something that can be said or can be suggested only, you know, from the very deep in the field. So this is what we have done, you know, for like three weeks. And all of a sudden, you know, all this mess, you know, became like a film.

And I think, you know, all this mess, you know, became like a film. And I think, you know, the messy, the messiness of the film, it's like the real sense of what every Ukrainian went through in the first month of the war. Amazing. And it's so, so, so, so inspiring. And now I understand also it ties really well to all your lectures about not just world conflicts, but also pushing boundaries, getting through fear, like all the things that you do and think outside the box, because the beautiful thing you have suddenly this power to control the narrative in such a beautiful way. And, you know, you're definitely, you know, leveraging that possibility and that power. That's, I think, what you're also lecturing all over, right? So talk to me a little bit about, you know, what are some of the things that people bring you to speak about? Oh, well, you know, sometimes in the

universities, I'm lecturing about world conflicts, but I call it world conflicts from within. Like if I talk about a place, whether it is like the demise of Yugoslavia or Northern Ireland or Chechnya or Ukraine or Congo, Rwanda or ISIS, Iraq, Syria, whatever, I've been there. So I provide you history as well, but a lot of like from the inside, look what's going on. And I think people appreciate it

when they realize that you have been there for a change, unlike a lot of other scholars. You know, you have an added value. So like this is a course that i have about uh world conflicts but a lot of you know like uh a lot of firms would like me to lecture about like how i work because it's like out of the box but in a really perverse way like the logic? How do you do it as an Israeli to go inside Syria? Why? How?

What the hell? And then I show them how it is done. Like, look at this situation and look how I act. Look at this dilemma that I have in front of my eyes. What should I choose? What to do? It can mean life and death. And unfortunately, I lost a few of my friends, what should I choose? What to do? It can mean life and death. And unfortunately, I lost a few of my friends, my colleagues. And what do you choose? And what's your logic? And

why in some other places you need to think in their logic and not the logic that you think is the best, whether you are in Tel Aviv or in Palo Alto. There are places that it would be absolutely useless and very dangerous to think like you were taught how to think. So I have to be very, very open to the culture and to the society, understanding the history of every place I've been to. And I like it, by the way, because I like history, I measure the history, I teach history, and it is part of the thing, not to get only to

the action of nowadays, because it has to do something with the past. I mean, think about the dispute in Israel and the Palestinian. Everything is a continuation of something that happened before, and people will date it to the Bible times. So it's the same thing in Pakistan,

in Afghanistan, in Ukraine, in Russia, everything relating, every one of them relating to World War II and something that happened before World War II. And, you know, there will be those clerics who say that God told them, you know, to fight or God told them, you know, that these are the Satans and you have to, whatever. but it is like an opportunity to understand the place you're going to not only grenades and bullets it's like a gift that was given the ability to go to places to meet people uh to understand culture and to see them not only at the best of times but in a very crucial time that might also be a very sad one. But that's life.

Life is everything. And I think that level of decision making while understanding the true cultures and past and future and kind of what is really going on in their head is just such a powerful skill. What do you think, what do you wish someone told you when you were younger that you think would have, you know, changed the trajectory or helped you in some way? Do you think there's something? I think it would have been better if someone told me very early into my career not to take too seriously the people who have brave face and talk without any doubt about the places they've never been in. Because I thought, you know, if someone is talking with such a self-conviction about something, so he must know, because otherwise he wouldn't have spoken like that. And I thought, okay, I got to i gotta believe him i gotta follow this guy then he realized how sorry how exists you know within

these statements so you know it would have helped me to go faster to find my own way not to think no he that, so I shouldn't try the other way. But it took me like a few years to understand it. Maybe I would have worked, you know, my first assignments would have been better if I was completely, you know, open like to my thoughts, my way, my instincts, my gut feeling, and to everything that I see and my witness. So I would be curious, is this something that you went through, um, earlier in your career that built you to who you are? You know, I gotta tell you, I never dreamt about

becoming a journalist. It was not like my fantasy, but if I try to look backwards in hindsight to my childhood, not to my beginning of the career, but, you know, there was a TV show that we watched everyone in israel i was

an avid watcher of a program called the time tunnel it was like uh black and white science fiction american science fiction from the late 60s and back in the time when i was a kid there was only one channel in israel so you know this is something that all the children have been watching. And that was the favorite show. It was sort of an experiment in which two American scientists by the name Doug and Tony can go through a tunnel from the laboratory. And within seconds, they would jump to another period of time. And from there to another period of time. So then to an from there to another period of time

so they could land you know at the midst of world war one then they could whisked into leonardo da vinci painting the mona lisa to king david's time to the trojan horse and everyone in the neighborhood wanted to be dag and Tony, including myself. But, you know, not exactly regarding the element of traveling in time, but more like, okay, someone is throwing me to the most interesting place on earth, the most interesting spot in the most crucial time. And it is for you to see. It is for you to witness. What could be more interesting in life you know so i remember when i became a foreign affairs editor uh in the israeli radio i didn't go out of israel i just analyzed things that happened outside israel i was that same

commentator that i'm talking about you you know, without a lot of love. But then I remember I was listening to, we didn't have even a cable TV. So I've been listening to shortwave BBC World Service. I remember 1323. And there was a guy called Graham Leach. He was a correspondent in the BBC. It was 1989. And he said, I'm standing by the Berlin Wall and it is falling down. And I thought to myself, you know, no one, no one on earth could convince me that there is a better profession than this guy have. And this is what I wanted to do, because this is sort of Doug and Tony. So, you know, sometimes even while in Ukraine or Iraq and Syria, I feel I know it sounds

a bit childish, but I became Doug and Tony. I'm so happy. You know, it's sort of like fulfilling a childhood dream. Oh my God, that was so inspiring. That's incredible because it's true. You have this incredible gift and ability to inspire the world, to show what's happening, to connect with others, to make it easier on the locals, because the way you connect, it's very clear. So you have this incredible gift that I don't know how you do it, but it is very inspiring. What would you say kind of final last word to the audience, people that, you know, should, you know, they should bring it to speak or should see, you know, the documentary Last Stop Before Kiev. Like, what were some of the last famous words to our audience?

Or people that just want to dream and create a career that they love? I think, again, this Russian phrase says a lot, not only, you know, regarding war zones. Again, you know, You know, my only Russian phrase, don't think that I'm fluent in this language. But like, the eyes are scared, but the hands are doing. You know, who are you to think that you cannot do it? Who are you to, like, to say negative about the possibility that you will fulfill a dream? The idea of me becoming a field correspondent and covering war

zones and like documenting history. I thought that I don't fit because the way I look really, it is so stupid when you come to think about it. Go, make the first step, touch it, and try to go on. And then you will realize, you know, that you can. You can enter a different mode. You can do those things. So do it, you know, because you can do these things while you are young. You know, I think I was given a gift, but I guess there is a limit to how much I can push it on. Still, I have my

physical and mental strength, but it's not forever. So a few more years, but when you're young, this is your time. This is your time to take some risks. So go ahead. You know, I think the beautiful thing, it's very clear that you found such a beautiful calling and your why is so clear, like Simon Sinek says. Right. And that's what helps you continue to push forward despite everything. So, Itai, it was such, such, such a pleasure. You know, if you guys are on a podcast, definitely check out the YouTube. We're going to have some really cool videos there that you should check out. And Itay, incredible to see you as always.

Ilana, thank you so much for your patience, like to hear me talking, to be interested in my life story. And I really miss you. Hope to see you soon. Thank you for listening and hope you enjoyed the show. Don't forget to subscribe, follow, share this with friends. I'll see you in the next Leap Show.