Leap Academy with Ilana Golan - Shark Tank’s Matt Higgins: How I Beat Poverty, Loss, and Cancer to Become a Global Investor

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

Matt Higgins grew up in abject poverty, caring for his sick mother at just 9 years old. At age 16, he dropped out of high school to focus on financial growth, eventually earning his GED and getting into college. While balancing work, life, and caregiving, he lost his mother unexpectedly on the day he began a new job. Despite these challenges, among others, Matt co-founded a private investment firm, RSE Ventures, appeared as a guest investor on Shark Tank, and developed military drones for the U.S. Army. In this episode, Matt joins Ilana to share the many struggles that shaped his refusal to quit and the power of taking bold, fearless steps toward achieving your goals.  Matt Higgins is an entrepreneur, author, guest investor on ABC's Shark Tank, and co-founder of RSE Ventures, a private investment firm. He advocates for entrepreneurship and innovation, often speaking on leadership, investment, and a success mindset. In this episode, Ilana and Matt will discuss: (00:00) Introduction  (01:56) Growing Up in Abject Poverty (06:13) Having to Become an Adult Too Soon (08:13) Quitting High School to Make Money (14:01) Earning His GED and Getting Into College (16:34) Managing a Career and Supporting a Sick Parent (19:34) Losing His Mother Without a Final Goodbye (23:11) Turning Every Job Into a Step Toward Your Dream (25:14) Rebuilding Life After Testicular Cancer (28:30) The Secret Behind Matt’s Iconic Book Quotes (35:04) Beating Self-Doubt to Become a Shark on Shark Tank (41:30) How “Burning the Boats” Drives Fearless Moves (46:54) Lessons from Failure and the Refusal to Die (52:16) Developing Military Drones for the U.S. Army (56:04) Living Without the Fear of Judgment or Death Matt Higgins is an entrepreneur, author, guest investor on ABC's Shark Tank, and co-founder of RSE Ventures, a private investment firm. With a career spanning sports, media, and technology, he has played a pivotal role in transforming brands such as The Miami Dolphins and Sky Group. Matt is the author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller Burn the Boats. He advocates for entrepreneurship and innovation, often speaking on leadership, investment, and a success mindset. Connect with Matt: Matt’s Website: https://rseventures.com/  Matt’s LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/matt-higgins-rse  Resources Mentioned: Matt’s Book, Burn the Boats: Toss Plan B Overboard and Unleash Your Full Potential: https://www.amazon.com/Burn-Boats-Overboard-Unleash-Potential/dp/006308886X  Leap Academy: Ready to make the LEAP in your career? There is a NEW way for professionals to Advance Their Careers & Make 5-6 figures of EXTRA INCOME in Record Time. Check out our free training today at leapacademy.com/training

The difference between success or failure is the mere refusal to die. Matt Higgins from basically a broke high school dropout, selling flowers to co-founder of RSE Ventures, building a multi-billion dollar portfolio of over a hundred global brands. He teaches at Harvard Business School that appeared on Shark Thing in the US and Dubai. There was a lot of dysfunction, cycle of abuse that I was born into. I started selling flowers on street corners when I was nine, little boy taking care of his mom. By virtue of me dropping out at 16, I started using whatever assets I had to move quickly with jobs. But then

I got the offer of a lifetime. As I'm sitting in the office and around 10 o'clock, Angela, who worked in the office said, your mom's on the phone. By the time I had gotten in the office at around 10 o'clock, Angela, who worked in the office, said, your mom's on the phone. By the time I had gotten to the hospital, she had died five minutes beforehand. Every bad thing that happens to me is an opportunity for exceptionalism. When I see really successful people, they do have the ability to absorb the wins

and repel the losses. And when I had testicular cancer, and it didn't kill me, I thought. Matt Higgins from basically a broke high school dropout, selling flowers to co-founder of RSE Ventures building a multi-billion dollar portfolio of over a hundred global brands. He teaches at Harvard Business School that appeared on Shark Thing in the US and Dubai. Author, the bestseller, Burn the Boats.

I mean, wow. What a turn, Matt. Take us back in time to your childhood. Well, first of all, it's great to be with you, great to be with your audience. I know your audience is dedicated to just transcendence and how to go to the next level. So that's a topic I love talking about in all its gritty detail.

The most important thing to know about me, and I always start here, is just my framework of growing up in abject poverty. Those words lose their meaning when you say it, but what does that mean? Grew up wondering what's for dinner, where dinner is coming from. A lot of people grew up in poverty,

there was a lot of dysfunction, cycle of abuse that I was born into. My poor mom had a horrendous childhood, which only became clearer later on in life. You don't understand these issues as a little kid. Everything about me was, how do I get dinner? How do I get out of poverty? Feeling like I don't belong here and where I grew up in.

I grew up in Queens, New York, in a little garden apartment, little shoebox, and it was a roach motel. I mean, just true squalor. And so I started selling flowers on street corners when I was nine. A little boy taking care of his mom, kid knocking on your window at the street corner on Mother's Day and Easter trying to sell you something, and just all these hardscrabble odd jobs, shoveling snow, whatever it would take.

At the same time, trying to take care of my mother, who because we were so poor, had no services. She suffered with morbid obesity, she had a thyroid gland disorder, so she would get heavier and heavier. Then at the same time, she was trying to make something of her life. She had a ferocious mind and a couple of things intersected.

My desperation of truly hating my life and hating being the hero child of having to take care of your parents while trying to do the right thing. Then knowing that if I don't do something and take matters in my own hands, my mother was going to succumb to depression and to her illnesses. First of all, it's fascinating because a lot of people will say certain words, but this is real for you. I always laugh at some people in Silicon Valley,

I call them broke millionaires. They feel broke, but they're not really broke. Everybody these days has to have like a hard luck story. Unfortunately, we've all been being like, you can't be born on third base. I'm like, what's so wrong with third base? I would like to be born on third base. But everyone's got a story.

Yes. Exactly. But also, we're right before, I mean, as we record this, it's probably not when it's going to come out, but we're right before Thanksgiving. And you actually have a beautiful story about Thanksgiving. Can you share that? It's you actually have a beautiful story about Thanksgiving. Can you share that?

It's funny that you said beautiful story. And Amide, I don't know if I feel like it's beautiful, but I guess it telegraphs how I grew up. So we were always struggling. Holidays were always a source of pain, to be honest, and melancholy because my mother wanted to turn it into something, right? Like something to look forward to.

And some holidays, it meant we don't have a turkey or we don't have. The Catholic Church, even though we were terrible Catholics, would always come and I always remember this, the knock on the door and the father and me, like a little boy, you feel like you're going to go to like the God police or something.

Because I remember I was standing behind my mom's dress, I'm peering through the door and just always seeing this warm non-judgmental face that would just deliver a box of food. How much relief that would bring my mother, who was also a bad Catholic. So throughout my life, and I've had the pleasure, fast forward,

this is a crazy story, but I've had two private audiences with the Pope. Part of the reason I got involved was not because of doctrine, but because the Catholic Church has the longest supply lines. As a little boy, I was receiving into that supply line of people who just dedicated their life to doing good things for people. Those are my holidays. But a reason why I said I don't know if it's

a joyful story because it was a story of shame mostly growing up. We would take a bus. I didn't understand why we would do this, but we would take a bus over an hour away to actually, it was a black Baptist church and they would be so kind to me. I also have fond memories of Baptist churches and we would collect a box of food and take the bus back. As I got older, I was like,

was there no church closer to home? My mother obviously was trying to hide best she could, the situation we're in. That's why I struggled. Like, is that a good story? Is that a sad story? Oh yeah. But that was my upbringing. But that's your story. Now continue because that became so intentional about dropping out that this story is incredible.

Yeah. I really tell this because I don't want people to think, oh, you're the kid who made good, you ran with a gang. I was like, no, that's actually not what I was. I was the sad depressed kid who was parentified at an early age. A lot of people listening to this may know somebody who's a caregiver and not prepared, nor do they want to be in that situation. That was me.

I also felt like there was a destiny about my life, and I also felt let down by society. Family members, they moved on. When someone steps up to take responsibility, everyone else like, good, you deal with mom unable to take care of herself. That's my reality, and it's complicated. But you were so young. How at such a young age you have

some epiphany because I want to hear that too. I think it's so funny. I think about this too, because I always want to keep myself honest. It doesn't do anybody any good if I put myself out there as being the oracle, you know, and knowing things so young. Honestly, it was the feeling of being disenfranchised and disenchantment. And what I mean by that is no power, disenfranchised and disenchanted with the system, school, support networks, family,

everybody letting me down. I was like a sweet little happy kid. But by the time I was around 10 years old, I was like, you know what? Nobody gives a shit. The reality is this is going to end horribly. I need to sever with the reality of being a child, and I need to become an adult now. It happened around 10. It was like

an incident that I don't really go into, but when I realized the cavalry is not coming, and so that did cultivate an extreme level of defiance and a feeling that I'm going to have to hack my way. It's fine when your life no longer matches the reality of your peers. They're going to school and having somewhat of a normal existence,

and I'm sitting there standing online on behalf of a ticket scalper, so I could buy tickets to a concert all night and then he was going to pay me for waiting. When the departure becomes so great, you realize there's no point leaning into the system's rules and you need to make your own. So I don't, absent my upbringing, I would have been that sweet little cherubic kid, you know, with little chubby cheeks, but it was that sense of being let down. The positive, it stoked a fierce level of defiance and independence,

and that birthed my epiphany. So my mom, when she left my dad, she got her GED at a local college, and then she enrolled in Queens College. And she would take me to classes starting at a very young age, 10 years old or whatever it was. I saw an ad in a newspaper and it said that you could deliver flyers for this local congressman and you can make $8 an hour.

I think I was making $3.75 at McDonald's. $8 an hour, college students only. I was like, what is it about a college student that's going to enable me to 2X my salary? I became obsessed with the following. What if I were to drop out of high school on purpose, like my mother did because of your product of abuse? What if I did it on purpose, took my GED at 16? Technically, there was a loophole back then.

Anybody with a good enough GED score could go to any college in America all the way up to Harvard. That was probably like what I say, noblesse oblige. We will let you come into college even though your life is a screw up. Nobody ever probably used it, but I became so excited. I have a way out.

I became giddy. Then we can get into this if you want to now. But when I started sharing everybody with everybody this plan, I was met with equally fierce resistance. Go there with me for a second. I also want to hear about the last day in school. So I put language around this as I got older to try to explain the difference. But the reality is I was what I call an edge case.

I'm somebody who's working overnight at a deli. I'm doing all these things. I'm an edge case, not the base case that has some degree of a functioning family unit that can go to school. And when you're part of a bureaucracy, whether it be a school or a corporation, when you're an edge case or an outlier, the rules don't work for you. But when you consult people whose job it is to protect

the status quo like a guidance counselor, and when you come up with something that's designed for the edge case, they think you're out of your mind. I remember talking to Mr. Go- I kept getting picked up by the Truant police, now this is ninth grade, and I would hang out at McDonald's,

I would watch CNN, the war in the Gulf at the time. I was just doing my thing, buying time. He was like, what's wrong with you? Such a smart kid. What are you doing? I was like, no, I have a plan. I'm going to take my GED and I'm going to go to college at 16. I'm going to bypass this and I make a lot of money.

Of course, he was like, you're going to have a terrible stigma for the rest of your life. This is before Mark Zuckerberg made dropping out of things cool in Silicon Valley bros, able to walk away like back then, you get beaten up for being a loser. I burned the boats moment for which I wrote

the book and stole the metaphor from Cortez and others was that, it wasn't that I dropped out of high school, it was that I gave myself no other choice but to go through with dropping out of high school. I didn't have the confidence to resist guidance counselors, police, and everybody else unless I had no other choice. It would be tantalizing to turn around if I hadn't become such a castaway.

My Brendan Boat's moment was to fail every single class in high school. I've told this story before, it's true, except for typing because typing seemed useful. Then I got left back over and over. When you get left back, back at Cardozo High School, and I still remember the sweet teacher, Mrs. Vega, who was always so empathetic and

understood what I was doing implicitly. I would sit in the back of the room, put my head down the desk, and I would just go to sleep. Around me were the drug dealers, were the beepers, and there were some kids who were pregnant. I put myself in that cohort. Then not only that, I started wearing a jacket, and I let all the gang kids tag it.

So I had tags all over my jacket. I was completely a manifestation of a kid that should be discarded. That's how the system, they stopped treating me as trying to make me a base case but actually treat me like an outcast, and was waiting for the moment that I would drop out. Now, that's a lot to take on. Then when the moment came that I actually had to drop out of high school, anyone listening when you make a bold decision that you're like, what system am I operating on?

It feels like a lot of adrenaline and momentum. When you drop out of school, you have to return your textbooks. I have no idea why I complied with this rule, but none other. This is also true. I feel a little bit bad if he's out there somewhere hearing these interviews. But I went to my class to see Mr. Rosenthal and I go to give him the textbook.

The textbook is unopened and I'm like a little punk. He was like, what's this? It's my textbook. It's my last day of high school I dropped out. He doesn't miss a beat and he said, Higgins, what a waste. He had a biting sense of humor, so I guess it was funny. The class starts cracking up and I almost want to pass out.

I'm so humiliated. As I'm about to walk out, he says, Higgins, what a waste. I'll see you at McDonald's. I had worked at McDonald's and the kids would make fun of me because I used to scrape the gum underneath the tables, my little green uniform, and stick chicken McNuggets stuffed in my pocket for the break,

and McRib sandwiches. Then as I walked out, I said, if you see me at McDonald's, it's because I own it. Everyone was like, but the truth of the matter is, that was me trying to preserve my self-respect. I sat on the steps of Cordoza High School. I packed a butt back then,

you packed butts, I don't know if you did anymore, and I spoke to Marbera. This is true, I really sat there and I said, he's probably right. It was such a hollow desperate moment, which is funny. This is not a moment of transcendence or victory. This is a moment of utter like, look what I have done.

Like I have leveled my- This is real. This is real like I am a high school dropout with an eighth grade education. I had started off as a kid who went to a special school, and all this kind of like, wow. Here's the other crazy thing, I never talk about this. When you stood outside smoking cigarettes in Queens,

security guards would chew you away and all that. But I was allowed to sit there now. I was emancipated, except it didn't feel very good. You know what I mean? No structure. Now I had no bureaucracy on top of me. Nobody would chase me away. I sat there smoking a cigarette, and then I got picked my ass up off those steps,

and I was like, all right, go to work. I remember with the GED, you have to take this GED program, which I did one day of that. I was like, I right, go to work. And I remember with the GED, you have to take this like GED program, which I did like one day of that. I was like, I am not doing that. This is creating a feedback loop that is not healthy. And instead I would say, I would take it to test on standby.

You could show up and take it. And I went to Springfield Gardens High School in Queens, New York. And I went, I waited in line one day. And within a week, I took the GED and fast forward, got the score back, took the SATs for good measure anyway, and I got admitted to Queens College. Now, this is the redemption story,

just like Gladiator and Maximus, I decided to return to the arena and I went to the prom with the prettiest girl who would go with me. I remember seeing Mr. Rosenthal, Dr. Baker, and Mrs. Vega. The look was all different from their prism of perspective. Mrs. Vega, who was always so empathetic, was like, sweet boy, you did good.

Mr. Rosenthal was begrudging respect. With one chess move, whatever judgment had been rendered toward me, had turned to some form of admiration. It's an important thing for everybody listening. If you're going to make a bull burn the boat's move, also why I wrote the book, you're going to have to go it alone.

If you depend on validation when you have an epiphany like I did, and you depend on counseling from people who have no perspective, nobody could look into that dirty house and watch my mother crying through the night, and what it would take for a little boy to deal with that pressure. Of course, their advice is going to be corrupted corrupted because you haven't shared with them what you're going through. They didn't know actually the level of pain I was in because I was wearing my Jordache jeans and using that flower money to cover it all up. And so I learned so much from that one moment, which is why I'm kind of stuck there, because I always like to share with people,

what does it take to do something so outrageously bold? But long story short, I went to my prom as a president of the debate team. I was 17 years old. This is so good. It's still wrong, years later, still very wrong. Well, I mean, I have your book here and I have it on Audible and I was crying when I heard this. So hey, at least. I appreciate that. That was the goal, is to make you cry.

Thank you. I think just the way you took everything that you went through to literally catapult you to law school and more and more and more. And we're going to talk about the more and more because I want to make sure that's so clear, because I mean, I can't keep up with you, Mr. Matt. Like, you know, like we're in touch through LinkedIn and every time I look at you, you're doing something else incredible again.

So take us with you a little bit because you somehow see your mom, that gives you that energy to be able to go to college, go to law school. What happens, Matt? This 16-26 chapter is really important because I make this one move, I do get into college, but the reality is I am taking care of my parent who is deteriorating slowly in this little apartment alone with us,

and I'm trying to have a normal life too, have a girlfriend and whatever. And so I took me seven years to graduate college at night and ups and downs and not wanting to finish and how am I gonna make it all work? But I'm still pushing. Most of what was propelling me forward was trying to square to almost irreconcilable variables or mandates.

One, preserve my psyche so later on I don't resent my mother for what I was put through, and at the same time do right by her. So I was like, wanting to be a hero? Again, I share this for anybody listening who's having conflicting emotions, right? I would do that by the same time build a life for myself. So I was on the clock,

and I had this sense like, I got to move so damn quickly. Because the one thing that happened to me by virtue of dropping out that I did not intend nor how could you know this, right, was that what Warren Buffett talks about with compounding, how it's the most powerful financial principle in the world, applies equally to your career. By virtue of me dropping out at 16, I started making these moves a lot quicker. I started using whatever assets I had to move quickly with jobs. The most important one was communication. I could write.

I was given that gift. I became a writer at a little local newspaper, but because my stories were compelling, I won all sorts of press awards when I was 19 or 20. I got nominated for a Pulitzer when I was 21, things start happening and then I end up getting a job with Mayor Giuliani, the version 1.0, the part that we all remember fondly, not the second part, version 1.0 of Giuliani, and I end up getting this job.

Because I was on the clock, I would never accept being told to wait your turn. Because I was like, no, I'm on a mission. I actually quit Mayor Giuliani twice when I didn't get what I wanted. And I went and I started out. Then they brought me back as deputy press secretary. And then they brought me back again as press secretary.

And when that happened, I'll zoom in here. I go from 16 years old and making these moves and killing myself to at 26 years old I'm still living with my mother in this apartment. My life is still a total secret she has gotten worse and worse and now she's on an oxygen machine and she's just sitting in a chair all day long and I don't know how to get out because I don't have enough money and I have this vision if I can make enough money I can get an apartment across the street and I could finally have a girl over or just like a friend over but i was like clark can i would close the door and change into my mask and my costume and i would go back into this place and so. I get this call from the mayor's office at twenty six now i'm in for the law at this point at night i'm going to law school is hard enough to go to law school at night while you're taking care of a parent.

And going to law school is hard enough, but going to law school at night while you're taking care of a parent and working full-time is hard enough. And I get the offer of a lifetime to be press secretary to the mayor of New York. I would be the youngest press secretary in history, but that's like a crazy job. And Giuliani was intense.

And so, but then, so I was like, how do I take this job? How do I do what I'm doing? But if I don't take this job now and this opportunity passes me over, it'll never come around again. And I learned at that moment, we don't get to choose our timing, right? We just have to do it.

But if I get this one job, it's going to enable me to achieve everything. I would make $105,000 a year at the time. And so I take the job. And then that night, my mother was in pain and very sick, and she pleaded with me not to go to work. And I remember telling her, I was like,

we have no money left. I cannot bring anybody over to Bayview. I have nothing. I need to go to work so I can get the check in two weeks. But if I get this check, mom, everything changes. So I go to work that day, and then as I'm sitting in the office, and around 10 o'clock, Angela who worked in the office said,

your mom's on the phone. I was like, you're calling me already, come on. She's like, when you call an ambulance, they insist that you go to the hospital. I was like, that's great. You called an ambulance. She's like, yeah. I said, we'll tell them, ask them where you're going. She said, we're going to Long Island Jewish Hospital.

I remember all the details. I didn't think it was an emergency. I actually was excited that somebody else maybe would step in. I always wanted somebody to step in and relieve me of this. Then I left and I took my time. By the time I had gotten to the hospital, she had died five minutes beforehand. I don't know the moral of that story.

I share it for a few reasons. One, I knew it was going to end this way, and I knew I only had a limited amount of time, and other people did not act like it was a crisis, but I trusted my instincts. I also knew that the only way I had any shot was to go ahead and upend the rules and get there faster. Then lastly, I don't regret going to work that day,

because if I had not taken that job, if I had not done what I needed to do, you then spend the rest of your life feeling resentful, but more importantly, blaming others. I'd be sitting here going, oh, my mother held me back. I actually think that's a lie. Nobody really holds us back at the end of the day.

I know that's a heavy story, but that is what happened during those 10 years. She died that day and the mayor was so kind. My mother always loved Queens College. It was the one place she felt happy. He said to me, is there anything I could do for you that would be helpful? I said, you know what, if you could arrange for her casket to go through the campus, that would give her dignity.

He arranged for a motorcade. My brother came up to me at the wake and he's like, Matthew, was mom a maid woman? She in the mafia? Who the hell, who are these people? And Giuliani had arranged for her to get like a head of state funeral. So it was a pretty, but anyway, that's my very tragic beginning.

I'm sorry to take this so heavy. Anybody want to say anything? No, it's beautiful. There's so many lessons in this. And I think, yes, life of resentment and victim mentality will never serve you. A lot of us do this with kids, a lot of us do this with parents, right? Like the last thing you want is to do them a favor and then feel like you're always in victim and resentment and never be present. So we do that,

right? So I love that story. I think it's just relevant for so many listening. Thank you for sharing, because this gives me chills also in the book. But so Matt, after this, you land roles with the New York Jets. But even there, there are some hard moments too. Like it seems like you were basically having a lot of tests in your life, if I may say so. I always joke, I'm sure everyone feels the same way. I would love a clean shot on goal for once. You know what I mean? It's like a straight path or even a little bit of a lotto ticket, maybe not the big one, but like a scratch off. But it didn't take any work and it all just worked out perfectly,

but that's not how life goes. People ask, zooming out, how does all the pieces fit together? How does somebody go from McDonald's or press to running an NFL team? All the things I've done and the connective tissue was something a question I would always ask myself, what is the highest and best use of Matt Higgins now?

What can I do now? What skills do I possess that I can leverage to move me closer to my ultimate ambition? Every job that came next was because I was leveraging a skill. Keep moving me on this continuum toward what? Toward freedom, autonomy. The number one thing I crave and still crave and always want and protect is autonomy because it's the one thing I didn't have.

My whole entire goal was to get there. The reason I got to the New York Jets is because after 9-11, I was running the redevelopment of the World Trade Center site. That made me an expert in land use. I know we just glossed over overseeing the rebuilding of 9-11, but that was my skill. And because of that, the New York Jets needed somebody to build the stadium. And I was able to leverage the ability to do that and get that job. And so each of these jobs is because I was able to leverage the ability to do that and get that job. Each of these jobs is because I was moving closer to something. I say this to anybody listening who feels like you have to have it

all figured out or the next job has to be the job. The next job just has to move you due north in the general direction of your ambition. You just need a thesis about like, if I do this, I'm going to learn this and I'm going to go there. But it shouldn't be an excuse to prevent yourself from going ahead and doing the next thing. It should be a rational like a continuum.

But I'll pause there, but I had all these crazy jobs. But when I was at the Jets is when I was diagnosed with testicular cancer, I assume that's what you're what you're talking about. And then it worked out. And I'm fine and I'm here now, I'm alive. I know, because you, you, you somehow bypass all these tests and continue,

which is incredible because you never let that go into that victim mentality. I think Tom Bilyeu, which I just had on the show a few weeks ago, he says, if you want to be successful, don't ask what's, you know, the minimum I need to do, ask what's the minimum I need to do, ask what's the maximum I can bear. And I think there's an element there and a pattern that I see.

Just to stick with cancer for half a second, as I think I love what you just said about the victim. I mean, I love Tom, by the way, and I love the way he frames it. For me, it is, I do think that every bad thing that happens to me is an opportunity for exceptionalism. When I had testicular cancer and it didn't kill me, I thought this disease hits one in 7,000 people,

and of those 7,400, I geek out on statistics, 400 of them will die. Now, it has a very high survival rate. My version was the kind that wasn't going to kill me. Then I thought, out of all the people, those 7,000, what percentage of those people live below the poverty line? What percentage of those people just went through a divorce?

What percentage of those people have depression, whatever? When I took a step back, I was like, I'm probably one of the most equipped people to have testicular cancer. Then two, I thought, in some ways, look how exceptional it makes me. I'm probably the only guy in the world with a GED and one testicle.

I decided to own it. I have these dog tags to this day, it's a little crazy and a little crass. It says half the balls, twice the man. That became my attitude about it. You know what? What's more bad-ass than surviving testicular cancer and losing a body part? The point of that I tell that story is I really

believe that every crisis is an opportunity for exceptionalism, but also every crisis gives you an opportunity to extract something more valuable than what's taken from you. I can honestly say what was taken from me with testicular cancer and even I've been on testosterone my whole life. I've had all sorts of physical complications from surviving it. But the window into the world of death was a tremendous gift.

To get sideswiped but not killed was an opportunity for me to discover Buddhism, for me to discover being present. I'm not always great at it. But I learned so much at Sloan Kettering that I wouldn't trade that for a minute even though I've had all these Circumstances and that's not just hindsight bias from you just saying it it really really is true So anyone out there going through something terrible like there is an opportunity to extract that more value from it than it's being taken from you

But if you don't believe it, you'll never see it. That is the irony of the whole situation You first have to believe this is what I'm saying is true because those who were like that's not true What about this situation? I was like, well, you didn't believe it. If you believed it, you would have figured out how to leverage it. And so I get through testicular cancer. I go on and I end up progressing into more responsibility at the Jets. And I think what you just shared is so, so important

because I think it's also the muscle that you need to build in order to create extraordinary things. And many times that muscle is built when things are hard. Now you somehow managed to have meetings with multiple presidents. You have a list of quotes on your book, including Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jay Shetty and Mark Cuban.

How do you get, and this is the book, Burn the Boats for those who are looking at, how do you get to such personalities? What is your trick, I guess? Because I think a lot of people are very intrigued by how do you open up opportunities for yourself. I think the number one is to be intentional. I was amazed going through the book process about how people think that the mere act of the book is writing a book. I was amazed going through the book process about

how people think that the mere act of the book is writing a book. Like I wrote a book, I'm like, well, anybody can write a book, but can you get somebody to read your book? So I always say, I didn't write a book, I engineered an outcome. I worked backwards from the outcome. I said, what outcome do I want?

The outcome I want is for somebody out there who feels unsupported to feel that if Matt did it, maybe I could do it. The only way I can make them feel that is if I share cringey details including the story I just told you, or how I had imposter syndrome by going on Shark Tank. My book is an exercise in engineering and outcome of making somebody out there in the world feel connected to me. That's really hard to do as a white middle-aged man in our Balkanized society.

What do I have to learn from you? I'm part of a different group or a minority group or a different economic class. My purpose in showing all these moments was for somebody to cross that divide and meet me here. Like, hey, look, I was thinking you're my mom. I'm like you, I grew up on government cheese. I was ashamed, I had imposter syndrome.

Though the point is, when you're intentional and you set your objective like I did with the book, you work backwards from it. The back cover, I remember when I was talking to the publisher and the publisher is very nice, but they do nothing to help you sell your book as the reality, other than give you the nice imprimatur and make you feel good with your little ego.

I was like, what about quotes? Which quotes I should get? It was like, you can get some people you know and it's fine. I was like, no, the cover is about conversion. This is the bottom of the funnel. People are now in the bookstore, what quotes are going to resonate? The truth of the matter is the quotes on the book are

designed to convert you and I decide to take somebody from each area. I was like, all right, number one is Arnold Schwarzenegger. I don't know Arnold Schwarzenegger. So I was like, how do I? But I Arnold Schwarzenegger. I don't know Arnold Schwarzenegger. So I was like, how do I? But I've met his son before who's a sweetheart. I said, look, Arnold has an incredible video on YouTube, and it was called No Plan B,

and it's amazing, and it did influence me, influenced his book, and I worked on getting Arnold Schwarzenegger for three months to do that. Every single person is there for a reason. So the moral of that story I think when you set an intention like we were talking before about you getting Richard Branson who's god and amazing and you got on your podcast I think people oftentimes put a ceiling on what's possible without even realizing it and the reason why you and I are talking about victimhood

and blaming the fuel for that impulse is blame. Well, it was easy for you to do because you had X-Men, but I can't possibly achieve that. I can't get Richard Ransom on my podcast, or I can't get Arnold Schwarzenegger on my book. I learned from that very young age that being a little bit defiant and oppositional unlocks all that tremendous opportunities. That's where the quotes on the back of the book came from.

I love that. In Hebrew we call it chutzpah, like you just need to figure it out and just do it and open those doors for you. But I agree. I think sometimes, and I could probably see myself even a decade or two ago, seeing something like this and saying, well, this is not for me. This is somebody that already has the network or already has everything or they have a massive vitamin P, you know.

So it's really hard to see yourself as somebody that can create that and make that possible. So, and this is also just, I think for everybody listening, I came with no network, none. Okay. Matt came with no network, like he created this. So I think this is just such a great reminder that yes, everything is possible as long as you're willing to be determined and continue. And I think like you say, Matt,

hesitation will kill more dreams than speed ever will, right? So I think a lot of it is just the compound action that you're talking about. I'm lucky to be think a lot of it is just the compound action that you're talking about. I'm lucky to be around a lot of fantastically successful people and, you know, wealth is a proxy for that, but that's not the only measure. But I'm just talking about a specific cohort of extraordinarily wealthy people who've achieved crazy things on their own. And what I find in common is that they make it up in volume. It's like sheer volume of attempts and shots on goal, which most of us can't do because we can't handle losing,

our ego can't handle it. And yet, I'm around people who do such stunningly terrible things. I don't mean ethically, I mean dumb decisions, and with such horrendous consequences. And then I marvel at their ability to go on and I'm like, this would wreck me. And I feel like you and I are connecting over being somewhat self-possessed or at least we can handle it,

we're resilient, maybe not self-possessed but resilient. I watch what they can endure and I'm like, oh my God, that would kill me. Then I spent some time in the book trying to deconstruct it. What I've found is the common thread is that highly, highly successful people who break new ground, when they have a setback, they simply expand the definition of what they're trying

to achieve to encapsulate that setback. In other words, they're like, oh, of course it happened. I mean, this is what I wanted to happen. By virtue of it happening, I'm going to be even better position. Because they take that attitude, they expand the definition of the journey and

success to include that setback, they're ultimately successful. For those who doesn't come natural, including myself, I came up with a little bit of a simple master of the obvious format that I do that I realized when we have a failure, the first thing most of us want to do is protect our reputation, when in fact the thing we should be protecting is our self-esteem. And so now when I have a failure, one, I acknowledge it and say it out loud, I have failed. There's something very powerful about taking away. It's power over you by trying to conceal it.

Two is, but I am not a failure. I had an incident of failure, but I am not a failure. It's just an incident of failure. Then three, what was that failure trying to teach me? What can I extract so it's useful? Then four, I'm going to go shoot it and bury it in the backyard, never return to it.

When I see really successful people, they do have the ability to absorb the wins and repel the losses. When they win, they're like, I did it. It's a little bit narcissistic maybe. But when I lost, it was like, that's okay. It doesn't affect their self-esteem. That's so powerful, Matt. You open a lot of doors in Shark Tank,

which is extremely rare to be in the US and Dubai. Like I think that's non-existent. First of all, how did you do that? But also I wanna emphasize to the listeners or the viewers, you're surrounding yourself with really, really smart people. So you're intentionally putting yourself in rooms that are extraordinary, because that will just catapult you at a whole different level,

at a whole different pace. And I think that's also something to just note, like, who are the people around you? Who are the people that you're surrounding yourself with? Because that's going to make such a big difference. So Matt, take us there. Like, how did you even make that possible? Just talking philosophically, I'm obsessed about this idea of step change versus incrementalism. What I mean that is we have a societal bias towards incrementalism. In other words, I must have the lemonade stand before I have the lemonade drink, before I have the lemonade business, before I get to run that business.

Those are unwritten rules that are actually weighing down on our ambition. But the reality is those rules are not as hard and fast as we're led to believe. The reason why that's so important to think about is we find ourselves conforming to those unwritten rules and say, if only I do this next thing, then I will be able to do the following thing I really want to do. But when you actually dissect that, it turns out that most of those incremental steps you believe you have to go along in order to pursue

your true ambition are actually about convincing yourself that you have the credentials, so you're not embarrassed by the audacity of saying, I want to be a business owner. I went to Harvard and got the certificate for eight weeks because now I have Harvard on my LinkedIn or whatever nonsense you've come up with in your mind to delay pursuing your ambition.

So I, for whatever reason, back to defiant little kid, pissed off about poverty, I, for whatever reason, have a bias towards step change. And what step change means is pursuing something that doesn't follow the natural progression of the direction you're moving in. So for example, let's use Harvard, and we'll talk about chart time.

When I went to teach, I have an academic part of my brain that I crave to flex, but I never got a chance because of my upbringing. But I also wondered if that was bullshit, and if that was an excuse. I was like, could I really actually perform at the highest level? It's convenient that I sold flowers on street corners because now we'll never know.

No one would ever believe that that's a valid excuse, Matt. You were poor. Of course, you went to Queens College. Point is, I could have taught anywhere, probably at a different level institution, but to teach at Harvard Business School is a very different thing. Even though I didn't have the credentials and even though I have this crazy story, I didn't let that stop me from trying. And because I tried, I got there. So with Shark Tank, really all began with an attempt to connect with my beautiful boy who was not interested in sports,

even though I ran the Miami Dolphins. But what he was interested was Mr. Wonderful's royalty deals. And we would watch the shows together and I would make fun ofphins. But what he was interested was Mr. Wonderful's royalty deals. We would watch the shows together, and I would make fun of those deals. I'm like, that doesn't happen in real life. He's like, well, how do you know? I was like, well, because I'm like a shark. I invest hundreds of millions of dollars. I know this. I then had that epiphany.

One, I'm going to sit here with my son together, we're going to watch me on Shark Tank. Then two, that is the shortest way to prove to people that you are the best. If you end up as a shark on Shark Tank, people will presume a lot of things about you, some of which may be true or not true. So I set the intention.

Now, there's no template for going on Shark Tank, there's no internet application form, there's no process. This is really important, everybody listening, you just have to make the next step, the next right decision that brings you closer. Right? And so the next thing I needed to do was, how do I get to a producer who would give me 10 minutes? And let me try to turn that 10 minutes into 60 minutes.

And how I got there is less relevant, but I got that one meeting. And when I got that one meeting, and this is one of my favorite stories, I had up until that point never given an interview like we're doing now, generally. I did not talk about mom and dying and the sadness. But for whatever reason, on that one day, I opted to throw away my shame.

I told the story just as I did on this podcast, and that 15 minutes turned into an hour, turned into an hour and a half. At the end of it, he's like, gosh, I love your story. Such a damn good New York story. We haven't had a story like that. I was like, let's keep talking. That led to a year of

conversations that eventually landed me on the set of the show. To get into this part, because this part is even more interesting to me than getting on Shark Tank, was what an anxious mess I was going on Shark. I don't know why I'm the only guest chart to talk about this, but I almost succumbed at the moment of being able to do it, and I freaked out about feeling like a fraud, feeling like my bank account didn't have enough zeros in it, everything.

I had one of these great conversations, and we can stop here. I just want to share it with the audience. It's like, I was so fragile, and my sweet wife was talking me through it. And I had Eminem on a loop on my thing, lose yourself, mom's spaghetti. I'm sick of myself. Anything to hype me up, but I'm still a little anxious mess. Because I felt like I would be seen through, finally revealed as the fraud that I feel like we all feel like we are sometimes.

I went to talk to Damon John who is a shark and he grew up in Queens, New York, near me, very different cultural prism. He was black, I'm white, and he was a red lobster, I was a McDonald's, but we had a lot of similarities. I told him the truth, I said, in this little dressing room, we have a photo of it together, it's one of my favorite.

I'm like, man, Damon, I'm freaked out. it together. It's one of my favorite. I'm like, man, Damon, I'm freaked out. He's like, what's wrong with you? I was like, I just feel like, I don't know. I don't belong here. I was like, this whole thing. I don't know why I'm having these emotions of doubt. He goes, let me tell you something. This is, I always say after he like MF'd everybody else,

what we've been through to get here versus you. He goes, Matt, you belong here because you are here. I know I said this, but it's so powerful. I always say it's like Socrates is talking to me or something. The point of that story is that there is no final arbiter of belonging. No one is going to pull up the seat for you like, hi Matt, welcome to the boardroom.

A lot of times women acknowledge this feeling, and I think it's harder for women because they tell the truth and men lie. We all feel it. But the reality is there's no final arbiter of belonging. And when you realize that, when you realize that no one's gonna give you permission or credentialize or validate you for the move you're trying to make,

you stop looking at the world through the lens of incrementalism. Because you realize so much of your steps that you've imagined are about seeking approval or permission from other people to move along. If I get the Harvard certificate, people will believe I'm good enough. And when you stop worrying about whether anyone believes you're good enough, then you aim as high as humanly possible.

And I, despite my anxiety, and I talk about in a book, I have been able to do that. I approach every single situation saying, who made that rule? Who said I have to do that first before I can do that? And as a result, I'm on billboards in Dubai randomly and doing Shark Tank in Arabic. So. I know, it cracked me up when I heard this,

but, and by the way, this is exactly it, right? I mean, that's why Leap Academy, right? Because I don't believe necessarily that you need to crawl your way up. I think what really makes a difference is that pattern interrupt. Like you're gonna have to create a pattern interrupt in yourself and people around you.

Otherwise they just see a little bit of you working harder. That's all they see. So you're gonna have to create that pattern interrupt for yourself and everybody else. But I think there's also a patience play that you're talking about, which I lived through as well, because we all as high achievers want everything yesterday, but it's not going to happen. So when you understand that patient, and it is a patience game, but it's also you're moving

from this if then else that we all live in. If I get this, then I'll do this, right? To no, I'm going to first say yes, and then I'm going to figure out the how. And when you shift that, that's when you start creating that momentum that I just love hearing about. Am I right, Matt? No, first of all, I love the pattern interruption. I mean, the words burn the boats is an inside joke, actually, in my head.

It's actually often used by right-wing people and it can sometimes be very like, burn the boats to hell with everyone. I'm saying the opposite. The boats I'm talking about in my book are the metaphorical boats that beckon us to retreat from our own ambition. It's the reasons why we erect barriers

to our own progression subconsciously. Like, I need to do this before I do that. The boats I'm talking about are to burn those so that you stop looking over your shoulder and stop questioning whether or not you deserve it. We don't realize we do it to ourselves. But the truth is that is everything. The belief, the consideration even,

not even the belief, just consider whether you can make that leap like you talk about. I have a great story in my book, it's one of my favorite ones in there. I had a student at Harvard Business School, even the belief, just consider whether you can make that leap like you talk about. And I have a great story in my book. It's one of my favorite ones in there. I had a student at Harvard Business School. And what I found fascinating when I first started teaching there and mentoring students from me having not gone there and started where I started from, it seems so obvious

that that student has de-risked their life. You will never have a bad career. You're going to make six figures like you won and you deserve it because it's an amazing institution. Yet they're so fragile and vulnerable just like the rest of us. They don't know what they should do. In fact, they have a different kind of pressure, which the world expects them to do amazing things,

and they're not clear what they want to do. I had one of my students who came to see me, and he was about to take a soul crushing job at a massive private equity firm and he was sad about it in my office and we started talking. I was like, well, you know, you don't seem that happy. He's like, it's just not what I want to do. And I was like, what do you want to do? He's like, I want to have my own firm.

I believe I could do it. I said, well, what does it take to have your own firm? And he's like, well, you have to have deal flow and you have to have, you know, these things, you have to understand what's feasible and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, well, do you know how to do those things? And he goes, well, you have to have deal flow and you have to have these things. You have to understand what's feasible and blah, blah, blah. I was like, do you know how to do those things? He goes, well, I do. I said, well, why can't you start your own firm? Then he goes, I'd never been a managing director at a firm.

I said, oh, well, is that a rule? He's like, well, generally, I said, well, I just invested hundreds of millions of dollars in this little chair I'm sitting in right now. I'd never been a managing director. I had no idea. I got to go back and interview. He goes to me, this is the key. He goes, yeah, but who's going to give me money?

Having never done this. I said, you're right. No one's going to give you money until one day somebody gives you money. Somebody's going to give you any good. That's how the conversation, true story. He calls me a couple months later asking for my size. I'm like, what do you want my size? But I want to send you my swag from

the firm that I just created when I walked out your door. I made a ton of phone calls, everyone said no. Because but one of some person gave me money and gave me $10 million to start this firm. True story, I read an article in the Wall Street Journal like six months ago, he had raised $100 million. I tell the story in the book and I tell the story to be like,

you have to go into the weeds a bit and dissect your behavior. Be like, why am I doing it? Had he not done a step change from that moment when he walked out, he would be working in one of those private equity shops sad, and would have erected a new barrier to his progression. Well, I can't take that step until I get promoted or I have responsibility for one region of the planet or some other excuse or barrier.

And then one day he has children and now he has a 529 plan. Maybe he has an unhappy marriage. There'll be new barriers that he actually can't control that are not self-made and maybe he never does it. And so everyone out there, I think you and I feel the same way philosophically, like just scrutinize your excuses, your reasons, and God forbid if there's any blame in your vocabulary, sponge it, because it's robbing you of your full potential.

I absolutely love this story, it's incredible. So tell me, Matt, some people will hear the second part of our conversation and will say, well, Matt, you can say this because you never fail. What would you say to them? Can you share a story of, no, we all fail because when we burn the boats, we're going to try a lot of things and some will succeed

and some will fail, but we just not going to let it take us down. Yeah. I mean, first of all, I would say burn the boats does not guarantee that you'll be successful. Not burning the boats guarantees that you won't be successful. If you're doing something that's just a pattern formulaic,

you don't need to burn the boats because you're on autopilot. But if you're doing something that might trigger imposter syndrome, you have to burn the boats or you will not be successful. If I had not burned the boats to get to shirk tank or perform on it, there's no way those two things happen. But in terms of failure, I fail every step of the way and not in cliche ways. When I got divorced and I talk about in the book,

there's no more feeling of failure, at least for some people, for a lot of people. For those listening who can relate, for me it was. The feeling that you had done all you could to try to architect this life, this perfect life, and then at a relatively young age, you're getting divorced. But professional failures. I opened the book, this is one of

my favorite stories in my book. I opened with the story of how after I went on Shark Tank, this is another one of my formulas, I always say, what would be even better than being on Shark Tank? It'd be like having my own TV show. I partnered with Mark Burnett, who created The Apprentice, who had created Shark Tank, like the biggest reality producer in America. And we created a new

show called Business Hunters, and it was going to be on CNBC. During the pandemic, I shot eight episodes. I put in so much time to make this show. I love this show. I was the executive producer and the host of the show. And then right as the book is about to go to print, the show gets canceled. It never even aired, crushing. Then I'm like, wait, this is the beginning of my book. Then I decided, I think this is the point. That's why it still should be the beginning of the book. I love what you just said.

It is easy to maybe say, well, it's easy for you to say, Matt, you burned the boats and everything worked out, and you can handle the risks. I was like, no, that's the opposite takeaway. I was like, along the way when I fully committed. But then the next thing I did is the thing that mattered. Every single time, like I said earlier,

there is an opportunity to extract more that's taken from me. Even though that show was canceled, two things happened. One, I formed an incredible relationship with CNBC and have been on CNBC at least 60 times since that. But two, I said, well, what would be better than having your own show that then gets canceled by a network for which you have no control, that you spent hours and hours of your life and poured

your heart and soul and thousands of dollars of your own money? I was like, having your own production company, where no one can do that to you again. I partnered with Gary Vaynerchuk and Eric Wattenberg. We now have our own production company. I'm now the executive producer on multiple shows that will air on different networks. At the end of the day,

was more value extracted from the experience of canceling that show? Absolutely, because I knew I had what it takes. The part that does weigh on me a little, back to the whole point of like, this is when I allow a slight bit of victimhood to slip in. I'm like, just once, I would like it to be easy.

Just once. Most people don't believe this one. They're going to hear about what I'm about to say. The difference between success or failure is the mere refusal to die. I was sitting in a meeting the other day with a business that almost went on tour and I can't say what it is because it's such a big national brand. But I was sitting in a meeting the other day with a business that almost went on tour, and I can't say what it is because it's such a big national brand. But I was sitting in this meeting and we had tanked the company with some bad decisions, and it was such a shame.

We stayed alive within like just so close from not even being around. I was in a meeting, this just happened last week and I was saying, I think, oh my God, we are going to make it. This is going to work. That moment happens in I was saying I think, oh my God, we are going to make it. This is going to work. That moment happens in every single thing I do, where I'm shocked by our bad decision-making,

or I'm shocked by something we didn't foresee. It almost dies, but we refuse to die and we find a way to survive. Anyone out there who sees the mere act of almost dying, or your failure as a referendum on your future, you or your worthiness, you've got it completely wrong. Because every single success is forged a fire, but forged a failure and it's not cliche.

Because I could show you every single thing I'm doing right now. We can get into the drone business if you want. Every single thing had an existential crisis where it almost died and I lost faith in what I just told you right now. Where I was like, it can't possibly work. This is just bullshit rhetoric. And then, but I was like, no, but I just, I can't give up. I don't want to die. And then my refusal to die, our refusal to die, is the thing that makes it actually, you know, successful. And I've learned that from being around these incredible people too. And it's their formula, not just mine. Oh my God, this is so powerful, man.

The pain is inevitable, but the suffering will be a choice. And you need to decide if you let it take you down. But I have to say that in venture capital, and I've been investing for quite some time, we have a saying, it's called near-death experience. We literally know that the co-founders or the founders will have what we call near-death experience, and the only question is, will it take them down or not? It's inevitable.

So the only question is, will you take it down, right? But speaking of drones, I come from the Air Force world and, you know, been a lot in that arena, and you have an incredible company. So can you talk a little bit about that, Matt? Yeah, and I'll put it in the context of this discussion and I'll shorten it too. So way back when I wrote the first into a new sport called the drone racing league in 2015.

And it wasn't always clear to me like, will this take off? It's very hard to create a sport. Talk about something I don't recommend to anybody listening. Like it is so difficult. So many things have to go right. But early on in that evolution, we realized the technology that we're inventing, the ability for drones to fly 100 miles an hour with goggles,

the ability to operate in very crowded environments with cellular signals, messing up the signal between the pilot and the drone. All this stuff would one day probably be put to nefarious purposes and conflict or terrorism. It just gave me the same feeling I used to have standing under the twin towers of 9-11, thinking like how did this happen?

How do we not see it coming? We couldn't look away. Quietly, a group of us created a new company in Huntsville, Alabama, it's called BDW. We spent the next several years working to create a tool that would give the warfighter on the edge of conflict the ability to call in their own air support in the form of this drone. And why I love that story aside from I think it's just some of the best work that I've

ever done professionally with my team, my co-founders, is we had to see the future, we had to believe it with all of our heart, and we had to do something so difficult, there's even a name for it, it's called the Valley of Death in the military world and defense. It's this gulf where you don't get a program of record, but you have to spend so much money creating it

in the hopes that one day you'll win. And we worked on it, tens of millions of dollars and all this effort below the radar on September 11th, 2024, the US Army designated our drone, the program of record for the United States. Whether somebody is interested in this category or not, or robotics or military, what I love about it is we could have just chosen to never try.

We could have instead say it's just a sport. The most incredible outcomes come from when you make those pivots and you see something and you're willing to believe it. And the reason why I said before, you have to be comfortable being alone like that little boy in the steps of Cardoza High School is that if I had relied on other people's validation that the future of conflict was going to be about small drones, nobody would have believed me in 2017, right? Like. Now, everyone reads the clips about what happened in Ukraine. This is a national security priority for

the United States of America that we have a domestic drone industry. To be honest, I always thought it would be, and so did my colleagues. But we were alone in that thought. We just had to talk, no one cares, no one's listening, and we just had to do it. one cares, no one's listening and we just had to do it. Fast forward, I love that. I love the moments when I had to bleed

alone with a few colleagues and no one agreed, and then you come out the other side and everyone is right there alongside with you. The best work I've ever done, that's always the same scenario. That's why it's so important to realize that the magnitude of an opportunity has an inverse relationship with the amount of

evidence and validation they'll be to support it. When you deconstruct that sentence, of course, this is a huge opportunity and we need to build this domestic drone industry. Nobody agrees. Why? Because it's a big opportunity and it's not here yet. Anyone out there when you're like, why won't anybody listen to me or why does

my wife or husband think I'm crazy? It's because the epiphany was rendered to you alone as a gift from God or the universe. The epiphany was not given to your spouse, or your boss, or your frenemy. It was given to you at three in the morning, and it's your baby. And it's your burden now to carry it alone until others will one day agree with you. Looking at all your life, what would be something that you would kind of reflect to your younger

self and wish you could meet the child, Matt, and tell him? I think a couple of things. One, for anyone out there who also has gone through trauma or poverty and pain, it's okay that it takes a lifetime to heal I am not even remotely healed it's a lifelong pursuit so be kind to yourself that it takes a long time if I could go back in time and talk to the younger version of myself or the 20 version of myself or the 30s it would be the same speech like nobody cares you are spending so much mental energy anticipating how your ambition will be rejected or judged, and you are self-censoring your own potential because you believe that others will care.

And the reality is they don't care a fraction of what you think they do. And two, those who do are wasting their life, and you should pity them and not fear them. And if I had known that, I would have achieved more with this life. I would have done it more peacefully. I would have done it with a more open heart because I think when you anticipate judgment, you become more close-hearted and because everyone's an enemy. Somebody's trying to tear me down.

You do feel their energy sometimes and that does make you more resistant to opening your heart up. If I had just realized nobody cares and the ones who care you should just feel bad for. I would say to anybody younger or at any point in our life, we are going to meet God one day and I'll be like, oh, nobody was thinking that. You were lost in your own little prison of your own making.

The other thing I wish I would have told them is, the only thing guaranteed is truly the present. You should embrace mortality. Mortality is a gift that can zoom you into the moment. I would have spent a lot more time early on thinking about death, and it sounds nuts. But I have an app on my phone called WeCroak, where five times a day reminds me I'm going to die.

Those moments are actually quite peaceful because they make me not care about all the noise that's going on. I gave you two, not just one. Wow. That's incredible, Matt. I never thought about it, but I think for me, losing my mom was the biggest slap in the face of stop wasting your life. So yes, if we can leverage death to push us forward, but also be present and enjoy the journey, it's just such a powerful thing. Matt, thank you so much. I knew it's going to be incredible.

I can talk to you for hours. Thank you for your time and everything. I love connecting with your audience. I'm rooting for everybody out there. If you read my book, Burn the Boats, DM me because I'm a human being who needs to sustain this effort. I'm on a mission. It's not a mission of ego gratification,

it's a mission of having an impact. Maybe that is ego, but if you read it and it moves you, just DM me on LinkedIn or I read every single comment. I would love to hear from you. For everybody listening, everybody viewing, that book is incredible. It will make you cry, it will make you think, it will make you everything,

but I can't recommend it enough. Matt, thank you for being in the show. Thank you so much. Have a great day.