Legal AF by MeidasTouch - BREAKING Legal News… JUDGES STRIKE BACK

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Michael Popok and Karen Friedman Agnifilo are back on the top-rated Legal AF podcast and debating: Trump’s Executive Order chaos in just 2 weeks, including 4 temporary injunction orders against him; 30+ lawsuits, with DC courts and judges leading the way; and how Trump’s DOJ is rapidly losing credibility with the courts and judges; the new DOGE/Musk cases to shut him down and his assault on democracy and privacy; the war between Trump’s DOJ and career FBI agents who have sued for retaliatory firings; Trump turning the US into a pariah state, by starting als losing trade wars, announcing without support or legal authority to take over of Gaza, the shuttering of USAIDs diplomacy mission cratering US business interests and national security, and so much more at the Intersection of Law and politics. Support Our Sponsors: VIIA: Try VIIA Hemp! hhttps://viia.co/legalaf and use code LEGALAF! Oneskin: Get started today at https://OneSkin.co and receive 15% Off using code: LEGALAF Magic Spoon: Get this exclusive offer when you use promo code LEGALAF at https://MagicSpoon.com/LEGALAF Public Rec: Upgrade your wardrobe instantly and save 20% OFF at https://publicrec.com/LEGALAF when you use promo code: LEGALAF #publicrecpod Oracle: See if your company qualifies at https://Oracle.com/LEGALAF Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Looking to simplify? How about the simple sounds of neutral vodka soda with zero gram sugar per can for the next 15 seconds. Neutral. Refreshingly simple. Playoff football is here with BetMGM and as an official sportsbook partner of the NFL, BetMGM is the best place to fuel your football phantom on every game day with a variety of exciting features. BetMGM offers you plenty of seamless ways to jump straight onto the gridiron and to embrace peak sports action. Visit BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must straight onto the gridiron and to embrace peak sports action.

Visit betmgm.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older, Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem? For free assistance, call the ConX Ontario Healthline at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Clear your schedule for U-time with a handcrafted espresso beverage from Starbucks. Savor the new small and mighty Quartado, cozy up with the familiar flavors of pistachio, or shake up your mood with an iced brown sugar oat shaken espresso.

Whatever you choose, your espresso will be handcrafted with care at Starbucks. TD Direct Investing offers live support. So whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, you can make your investing steps count. And if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for total fund savings adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. We are 15 days into the Trump administration and I'm going to go on record here with my

partner in crime, Karen Friedman-Iknifilov, in the midweek edition of Legal AF. I will say that Donald Trump has accomplished more negative things and chaotic things in the first 15 days than any president in history. What are we watching? We're watching a administration already crumble and circle the drain. A Department of Justice for Donald Trump, if you can call it that, that is losing rapidly credibility in front of every federal judge they've appeared in front of. And that's not saying that that's saying a lot because there are 32 suits that have been filed against the Trump administration

in federal courts around the nation, half of which are in the District of Columbia, which means look for the revenge of the Joe Biden appointed judges and those who handle the Jan 6 cases. This is their moment. This is what we're watching. So what and what are we watching? We are watching or as Chris Murphy, the senator just said today, Donald Trump has lost it. He's lost it. If the 25th Amendment could actually be invoked by this this group of of toady cabinet members and JD Vance. Is JD Vance still vice president? That's just a rhetorical question. Where is he by the way? We don't know where he is, but if you know we're gonna take over Gaza, troops on the ground in Greenland, a trade war

that lasted 24 hours and America lost, a creation overnight almost of a pariah state by Donald Trump of the United States, where we are radioactive to our allies, where we are inviting our enemies like China and Russia to step into the void created by Donald Trump's destruction of diplomacy. Who pulls out US aid from the world, which is a vehicle of diplomacy that's been there for 60 years? Donald Trump. Who pulls America out of the American economy, removing the thing that makes the economy hum, which is the American government funding states, not-for-profits, and the rest? Donald Trump. Who jeopardizes your entitlements? And people got a little upset with me, I used that word the other

day. That's the generic term for Medicare Medicaid that you know veterans disability benefits student loans the type then those type of things it's that doesn't have anything to do with that snowflake term of you feel entitled is that you're entitled to it you're you've earned it who's jeopardized that in in two weeks time Donald Trump who's done an all-out war on gender and on and on the transgender community who are American citizens Donald Trump He signed 30 or so executive orders Karen and now we've got 32 lawsuits for temporary restraining orders One preliminary injunction and we're just getting started as we've said before

Trust the process and the process is federal judges and the one that are being handpicked by the Democrats and by progressive and by public interest groups know what they're doing. Up and down the West Coast, from Washington down to California, up and down the East Coast, from New Hampshire and Rhode Island,

down to Maryland and the District of Columbia. That's where we live. Those are the federal judges we want. And already the Trump administration is 0 for 5. 0 for 5 and we just got started. And I predicted, Karen, a long time ago that you can triple the amount of lawsuits that are going to be filed against the Trump administration from their first go-around. That was a thousand. This is going to be 3,000. They're already averaging more than two a day. Two a day. And that's going to continue unabated as the Department of Justice led by Donald Trump's all acting this and acting that take ridiculous, intellectually bereft

positions in court that don't even pass the straight face test with federal judges. And telling them out loud in filings that they're not going to comply with federal orders. We'll see who's going to win the battle between federal judges and cabinet members for Donald Trump's administration. They better have toothbrushes in their back pocket because contempt is on the way. We're going to use this opportunity not we can't talk about all 32 cases. We'll do that over time, but we can talk about a couple of them I want to drill down with you Karen on the on the doge must category of cases, right? I want to talk about the ones related to his trying to Kidnap all of our personal and private data and try to muck up the works of the payment system Through the off that through the Bureau of Financial Services and his access to other servers around the government,

for which he has no right to be there and is an invasion of our privacy. I want to drill down on the war that's broken out between the FBI and the Department of Justice. The Biden leftover leadership against the Trump Department of Justice. It's a brawl in plain sight and two lawsuits that have broken out. And then we'll talk about Trump turning the United States almost overnight into a pariah state. The trade war, Gaza putting troops on the ground in Gaza, taking over Gaza as the Riviera of the Middle East and developing it, shuttering USA, the impact on diplomacy and US business interests and national security as a result. All right here on the midweek edition of Legal AF. How are you

doing? I'm good. I'm good. It's so good to see you, Popak. You know, it's funny, you did predict that there'd be so many things to talk about in this administration and so many lawsuits. And it came up, if you remember, we had a conversation because I was saying to you, what are we going to talk about now that the criminal cases are all going away? Is there going to be a life after these cases? Because that's really what we spent so much time talking about. That was four cases, right, four criminal cases that we spent so much time devoted to and talking about. And now here we are, as you said, there's three dozen cases already filed. And we are going to this is going to be an unbelievable victory for democracy in these cases. I think we're going to win almost every one of them because the lawlessness that is going on

is just insane. And although we're going to win in the courts, we need to also fight and win in the court of public opinion, because somehow we are not getting the message out as what as and I don't know if the if the tactic for Trump is let's just throw everything out so that there's so many things that it's like playing whack-a-mole and our heads are gonna be spinning but we have to pound it and talk about it and people have to understand what's happening because it is lawlessness and it is it's not just breaking norms it is not just breaking traditions they are violating the law left and right and the thing thing is, but he literally, everything he says is DEI. DEI

is the answer to everything. And it's like, no matter what the problem is, oh, DEI. There's no even looking at what happened. And exhibit A is the tragic plane crashes that have happened on Trump's watch, by the way. Hey, cut government. Why do we need government employees? Let's make them all resign. Okay. We don't have enough air traffic controllers. You know, what could go wrong, right? You're trying to get everyone fired and to leave. What could possibly go wrong? Well, look, we've seen two plane crashes in the very beginning and without even, it's irresponsible, without even knowing what happened, without even getting a preliminary report without even looking. DEI, it's just DEI. And that's just, it's irresponsible. It's misinformation and it's out and out dangerous and terrible.

It's a mole hunt that he's, that he is undergoing to root out transgender people, woke ideology and DEI. He's taking his eye off the ball. He's, you know, he's like a surgeon that is operating in the dark. He's trying a thought experiment that would fail in an MBA class on our national economy, undermining our national security. And we have to now look to the federal courts. Now I look, I know that the federal courts have taken a hit primarily in the criminal cases but not at the trial court level or even at the appellate court level. It's really been at the Supreme Court level but even this United States Supreme Court doesn't like executive orders, doesn't like a president trying to legislate through executive orders and trying to take on major issues that are reserved to Congress,

especially on budget and appropriations and the purse strings that all rely on Congress and not on the president. So I feel pretty good of where we are right now. That's why I only half joked with you in the audience when I said trust the process, trust the process. We know where to file. There's a reason the courts that we'll be talking about

during today's episode are in New Hampshire and Massachusetts and Rhode Island and Washington state and District of Columbia and Maryland and not in and not in Alabama and Florida and Mississippi and Texas. Those were their states. Those were the red states. That's how they tried to muck up and gum up the works for Biden during his four years and drive him nuts. We know where we're going. And for those that said, yeah, but the Supreme Court, I'll leave you with this comforting thought. 99.9% of cases don't end up at the United States Supreme Court, even if they even if they doubled their productivity,

which they're not going to do, and took 120 cases to listen to for the rest of this term and into next term. That leaves a thousand or three thousand or four thousand cases where the final word on justice is going to be had by the trial court level or the appellate court right above it and has nothing to do with the United States Supreme Court. That's why it's important to locate and situate these cases in the right courts. And so now let's talk about, I gave the scorecard, but then let's dive in. Before, just can I say one more thing before, as you mentioned the Supreme Court,

and when we're talking about being prescient, I just wanna read from Justice Sotomayor's dissent in Trump versus the United States, because it really just talk about predicting exactly what's gonna happen. And I wanna give her credit for what she put in her dissent. States, because it really just talk about predicting exactly what's going to happen. And I want to give her credit for what she put in her dissent. The people said was hysterical and was overblown and it's not going to happen.

She said, and this is just a part of it. It said, the President of the United States is the most powerful person in the country and possibly the world. When he uses his official powers in any way under the majority's reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy SEAL Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold on to power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune, immune, immune, immune. Let the president violate the law. Let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain.

violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends, because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority's message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the president and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law." And then never in the history of our republic has a president had reason to believe that he would be immune from prosecution if he used the trappings of office to violate criminal law. Moving forward, however, all former presidents will be cloaked in such immunity if the occupant of that office misuses official power for personal gain

The criminal law that the rest of us must abide by will not provide a backstop so with fear for our democracy I dissent and I mean and everyone thought oh, she's overblown. He's not going to do that. There's all these things in place and 15 days what has he done? He has slashed and burned and tried to wreak havoc in the federal government. And so I just wanted to put that out there because I think those words were just so prescient. Yeah, the context is necessary. The good news is we're talking

about civil not criminal at this point. And federal judges, including Biden appointees and Gen 6 judges in the District of Columbia. 15 out of the 32 cases are filed in the District of Columbia, which makes sense given the regulatory nature, the fact that these agencies and departments are based in DC. That's not the only place because if you're injured somewhere else, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, California. Pardon me. If you're injured somewhere else, you can sue where you're injured. And so but we're picking and choosing the right judges. Let me just give the stats and then we'll get into the FBI case and the Elon Musk

case, because I think that's the one that's getting everybody's blood pressure up and boiling. Birthright citizenship, Donald Trump's attempt by executive order to rip out the heart of the Constitution and the 14th Amendment, which gives citizenship at birth by way of an executive order, has not only been temporarily restrained by Judge Kofenor two weeks ago in Seattle, federal judge, finding it was blatantly unconstitutional. But it's now, as of today, been preliminarily enjoined, which is one step higher in the injunction food chain, by a federal judge in Maryland, who used to be a federal public defender, shout out to the public defenders out there. And she ruled on a preliminary injunction, meaning it's gonna stay, and nationwide no less,

that it is against 125 years of precedent, 250 years of American jurisprudence. There's no judge that's ever ruled that that was appropriate to read the 14th Amendment the way the Trump administration does, and she wasn't gonna be the first. And she went further to say, she asked, this is where the Department of Justice is losing all credibility and you're only 15

days in. She asked the lawyer for the Department of Justice, cite for me one case, cite for me one case that goes your way in your argument that the framers of the 14th Amendment didn't want to create a loophole so that quote unquote undocumented who were born here, your parents born here, wouldn't receive U.S. citizenship. Give me a case. You don't have a case, do you? And this is not going to be the first case. So that will now go up on appeal to I think the Fourth Circuit, which I think covers Maryland, and we're up and running here. There's gonna be 150 preliminary injunctions before we're all said and done in the first couple of

years, but this is the first one, the ceiling has been broken. Then we've got, so in birthright, temporary restraining order, and an injunction. In the federal funding, the freeze on federal funding that Donald Trump tried to unfreeze to try to avoid jurisdiction of the courts and was caught red-handed. Rhode Island, temporary restraining order in place by Judge McConnell. DC, temporary restraining order in place by Judge Ali Khan.

In the, anything related to transgender, particularly a new decision last night by a Reagan appointee, Judge Lampert in DC, who said, no, you're not going to put transgender women in the male prison. I mean, we don't even have to, I could read for you out loud all the things that Judge Lampert said, but the Trump administration agreed. That's the other thing. They have no credibility. They agreed of all the serious physical and emotional harm to putting a transgender woman in a male population prison and the judge was like well this will make it easy I find it cruel and unusual under

the eighth amendment on a temporary restraining order standard and I am going to block you're doing so you are not to transfer anybody during that time so that was a TRO so when you add them up we we've got four, actually five TROs, five total, and one preliminary injunction. Hope, explain to people the difference between a TRO and a preliminary injunction, and then what happens after the fact of a permanent injunction and different legal standards. Just explain that to people, because I think we throw these terms around, and I don't know that everybody knows what they are. That's a very good point. And one more coming, by the way. people because I think we throw these terms around and I don't know that everybody knows what they are. That's a very good point. And one more coming, by the way.

I think that'll be the fifth TRO. Judge Cattelli in DC, who's not a big fan of Donald Trump's, she has given the Department of Justice until later this evening, we just don't have it for when we're live, to tell her why they're not going to agree to ban Elon Musk from accessing the Treasury Department servers for the Bureau of Financial Service, which is where our $5 trillion with a T of payments, entitlements, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, and everything else comes from. Why they're not going to agree to hold that and make her issue an injunction. They're going to come up with some crazy, insulting filing

that one of us will cover tomorrow and the judge is going to end up issuing a temporary restraining order on that. In the beginning of a case, there's really three types of restraining orders or injunctions that a judge will handle progressively. At the very, very beginning of the case, before she even or he even has full briefing, full the law, the evidence, the facts, and have an entry hearing or anything like that. You can run in and sometimes convince a judge to put an administrative pin in things. It's called an administrative restraining order or injunction. It's the lowest level and it's for hours, hours or days, until the judge gets full briefing and pulls everybody in for a temporary restraining order,

which is next up on the food chain. Once you get, and that's really done without a lot of elements. It's the judge's inherent authority to go, yeah, you know what, I need about three or four days. You guys status quo, it goes back to before this order came in and I'll see you guys on Monday. It's a version of that.

Then the temporary restraining order briefing schedule is set. The temporary restraining order and the preliminary injunction are very similar except one is temporary and one is permanent. The standards are about the same. You have to show four things for a temporary restraining order and it's almost the same four things for a preliminary injunction. You have to show that you are likely to succeed on the merits of your case. The judge has to look under the hood, to succeed on the merits of your case. The judge has to look under the hood, kind of peer there, think about what the case is at trial, and conclude after reading your briefing, your law, and looking at your evidence that you are likely to win a year from now, two years from now,

six months from now, at the final trial of this case, and enjoin the action that is being threatened. That's one. The other three standards are two kind of merged threatened. That's one. The other three standards are two kind of merged together. It's irreparable harm and inadequate remedy at law, which is like, I can't fix with money you getting killed in prison because you've been put in the wrong prison. It's like that.

So it's irreparable harm and inadequate remedy at law. There's no money that can fix this problem. If people lose their paychecks who are waiting on federal funding and They and they don't eat that night or their babies don't eat that night or they get a victim because they're living paycheck to paycheck She can't fix that after the fact with it with a with a monetary sum So that's why equity steps in to do justice through injunction So that's the combination of those two and the last one is public interest tips in your favor. You got the better argument about public policy or public interest than they do.

So the judge- It's a pretty, it's a pretty, like, so when you get an injunction, cause we throw it around like, oh, we have an injunction. Like it's just something you go on and it's like, exactly. It's not like, it's not like you could just, you're going and getting a ticket to get in line. And so we get an injunction.

It's a high standard. Taxes, deli. Yeah, exactly. No, but it's not, you know, it's like, oh, they ran to court and got a temporary injunction. It's not like that. It's hard. It's hard.

It's a hard thing to get. And so- Especially against the government. Exactly. And so really what these judges, these lifetime appointed federal judges are, some of them are appointed by Republican presidents are saying things like, there is a very strong likelihood you will succeed on the merits. This is meaning there is no law in your

favor. This is not what you're doing is wrong and lawless. And there's irreparable harm. It's a big deal that that you're getting these injunctions. And the judge has already decided, I don't know, let's say a temporary restraining order, in your favor, you'd rather be there than on the opposite side of that. Exactly.

Now the judge will then set a full briefing schedule, more briefings, similar as to what you just did, but you update it, and now you get a bigger, better record. Maybe there's some depositions, some sworn statements, you get some evidence, maybe you hold an evidentiary hearing where the judge takes testimony from the Department of Justice or whatever. Department is up and running on that particular issue. For the plaintiffs

like pregnant women from other countries, full evidential record is established and the judge says, yeah I'm gonna stay with my original ruling on the temporary restraining order. And now this injunction, like the one out of the birthright citizenship for Judge, it'll come to me in a minute, is is permanent, sorry, preliminary until the end of the case. So that's the Maryland one you're talking about. Maryland, right. Six months, eight months, a year, whatever it is, it stays in place for that length of time. Now I will tell you that in my 35 years, I figured this out once in my entire career, did I not, when I won the TRO,

did I not also win the preliminary injunction. So if you win the preliminary injunction, you're about 80% home. You're gonna get the preliminary injunction, especially against the Trump administration. So anything that you hear as TRO now is likely to be preliminary injunction, if we're doing our home game, is likely to be converted into a PI. Once it's a PI, that's

when you can likely take your first appeal. So that's when we'll start seeing appeals coming off of preliminary injunctions. That stays in place unless the appellate court vacates it, or the United States Supreme Court thinks it's interesting. Some things the Supreme Court will find interesting. Some things the Supreme Court's like, no, we're not touching that. And if they don't take the case and they don't touch it, then the ruling of the appellate court just below the Supreme Court is the ruling that will stay for that case for its duration. This is a nationwide injunction that she's issued.

Some people might ask, well, what about Judge Kofenor's TRO? That stays in place too. He can enter his own nationwide preliminary, we have two nationwide preliminary injunctions, and they'll both go up on appeals. Or, having seen this one, this is where the portfolio method of filing multiple cases in front of multiple judges on the same issues comes into play. These lawyers that are, you know, whether it's Norm Eisen representing this party, or attorneys general representing this party, they'll talk. They'll say, who's got the better case? Who's got the better judge? You know, where do we think the better path to success is? And they

may dismiss one case and follow the track of another case. The other reason you file five or six, there's literally eight cases on birthright citizenship that's been filed. Eight, New Jersey, Maryland, all different places. Because if you don't get a great ruling, you hope to split and balance it. At least I got five good ones and three bad ones. Skip the three bad ones, we'll focus on the five good ones.

But here, I think with the Trump administration and their outlandish positions, I think it's just gonna be win, win, win, win, win, win, win. Will they hit a Trump judge eventually in one of these places? Sure, they exist, you know, and we'll report on it. But you know, that, then, so preliminary injunction stays in place.

And then at the end of a trial, the judge can, awards can say, yep, I was right. TRO, I was right. Preliminary injunction, I was right. And I'm right. Permanent injunction, meaning this is it, man. I've declared you unconstitutional in violation of law, in violation of and then fill in the blanks, 14th Amendment, Administrative Procedures Act, First Amendment, all the rest. Boom, permanent injunction. And you can appeal that as well. But if you, I'll tell you straight, if you lose on the preliminary injunction matter,

appeal that as well. But if you, I'll tell you straight, if you lose on the preliminary injunction matter, you're about three-quarter cooked at that point. Yeah, yeah. It's so interesting, because when you think about it, there was this, the big nationwide injunction that went in the opposite direction during the Biden administration was the Judge Kasmeric with the mythipha Preston. If you remember, the MAGA people picked that judge, hand selected that judge, and went to a place that there was no chance of getting another judge. He's the only judge who sits in that location in Texas and got this nationwide injunction on Mipha Preston. What's interesting is now it's happening in the opposite direction because now we are our side of things, democracy side if you will, is in the plaintiff's driving seat. So you can bring the case, you can choose where to bring the case, and you bring the case where you think

you will have the most likelihood of success, where you're not going to hopefully get a Trump judge, etc. So in some ways, we're in a better position now than before because we're on the offensive, not the defensive, even though we're in a terrible place because we don't want to be in this position at all. But given that fact, I do think judge-wise, hopefully this will be a little bit better than what we've seen before. Yeah, absolutely. is hopefully this will be a little bit better than what we've seen before. Yeah, absolutely.

I bet again, we're back to trust the process and not only trust the process, trust Midas Touch and Legal AF. You've come to the right home. If you didn't know us before, welcome. Thank you for being here. The network is gonna hit four million. It's hard to believe we were doing a 2 million counter

just like a year and a half ago. I know and it was, and they almost on our show. Yeah exactly on our show. We were so excited. How cute was that right? It was very cute. Two million. So cute. Salty. I'm so adorable. We're only at two million. Legal AF, the YouTube channel that I'm curating for us, a collaboration with MTN. We're going to be 500,000 before our half birthday. We're at 450,000 subscribers as of today. We'll hit 500 in another week or two. And that's all because of you guys. I'm curating sure. We got six or eight to 10 videos a day at the intersection of law and politics. You see why it's necessary to be over with Legal AF and on the Minus Touch Network

doing work on both places just to cover these 32 cases and their developments. I mean, just to give you an idea from a lawyer's standpoint, a case will have, especially of this sophistication and this level, and federal court will have 200, 300, 400 filings, docket entries, times 32 cases, and we're only two weeks in. Do the math. You need to be here so you know what's worth understanding. We're going to tell it to you. We're going to curate it for you right here on Midas Touch Network and on Legal AF. And we've got a great group of pro-democracy sponsors who are with us, who are with our First Amendment expression, who know what our values are, our DNA are, and those of our audience and support it.

We're people powered. We don't have outside investors, right? Nobody tells us what to do or what to say, but that means it puts a little bit more pressure on us to bring in sponsors, to keep the lights on, to bring in subscribers, free subscribers, and to bring in sponsors to keep the lights on, to bring in subscribers, free subscribers, and to bring in our audience, because the bigger we are, the more your voice is heard.

So now we've got our first set of sponsors. Even if you think it's a bit overhyped, AI is suddenly everywhere, from self-driving cars to molecular medicine to business efficiency. If it's not in your industry yet, it's coming fast. But AI needs a lot of speed and computing power. So how do you compete without cost spiraling out of control? Time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure or OCI. OCI is a blazing fast and secure platform for your infrastructure,

database, application development, plus all your AI and machine learning workloads. OCI costs 50% less for compute and 80% less for networking. So you're saving a pile of money. Thousands of businesses have already upgraded to OCI, including Vodafone, Thomson Reuters, and Suno AI. Right now, Oracle is offering to cut your current cloud bill in half if you move to OCI for new US customers with minimum financial commitment. Offer ends March 31st. See if your company qualifies for this special offer at oracle.com slash legal AF. That's oracle.com slash legal AF. All right, ladies, listen up. If you're like me, Valentine's shopping for your guy

is usually means stressing out over trying to find something that he'll look good in, maybe even sexy, but also something he'll actually wear. He doesn't wear pants so tight that they're cutting off his circulation. You don't want him looking like he just stumbled out of bed for your next date night. Well, you're in luck because Public rec has developed pants that feel as comfortable as

sweatpants but look as nice as something he can wear anywhere. Take it from me. My husband is now wearing them. He loves them. He says, where has this been all my life? It is so comfortable and it looks really good for his professional wear to go to work. So I got my husband the day maker pants. They're great for hanging out with our friends or for lazy days around the house. They have so many great style options that are perfect for if you're a golfer or you wanna go out to dinner

or even when you wanna go into the office. So whether you're planning a cozy night in or a special night out, public rec has your guy covered. He'll love how comfortable they feel. You'll love how great he looks when you step out together this Valentine's Day. Skip the cliches and get him something

he'll actually love. This is really a great product. I mean it. If my husband wears it, then you know that it's great because he's very particular. So for a limited time, they have a special deal where you can get 20% off

your entire order with code LEAF at PublicRec.com. That's 20% off when you use promo code LegalAF at PublicRec.com. Your hunt for the perfect Valentine's Day gift is over. So for a limited time only, get your 20% off using code LegalAF at checkout. That's Publicrec.com. And after you purchase, I'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you.

Happy gifting. Frustrated with your current skincare routine? For years, products have promised to fix lines, wrinkles and crepey skin, but they rarely deliver lasting results. And that's why today's sponsor, One Skin, changes everything. I've been using it for a while. And in honor of National Women Inventors Month, we're highlighting OneSkin's

founding team of female scientists who've developed a whole new approach to skincare that starts at the cellular level. The proprietary OS1 peptide is the first peptide scientifically proven to reverse skin aging by switching off the dysfunctional senescent cells that cause lines, wrinkles, and crepey skin. You can try OS1 in all of OneSkin's topical supplements from their flagship facial moisturizer and award-winning eye cream to sunscreens that protect the skin from UV rays

and the damage that it causes in the cellular aging. Your skin is your body's largest organ and the one most linked to visible signs of aging. With OneSkin, you're helping your skin feel good, look good and act like it's younger self every time you use it. So see for yourself with an exclusive 15% off using code LEGALAF at oneskin.co.

So I love OneSkin, I use it every single day. It's been part of my skincare routine for a while and I often get people say to me that they can't believe my actual age and I'm 58. So I hope it's because of my skin and how I look and it really seems to be a really incredible product that has transformed my skin. People notice, people have asked me what I'm doing and that's what it is. It's really simple and so I highly recommend this product. It was founded by an all-woman team of skin longevity scientists which is also a perk. So One Skin is redefining the aging process

with their proprietary OS1 peptide. It's the first ingredient proven to help skin look, feel and behave like its younger self. So get 15% off with code LEGALAF at oneskin.co. That's 15% off at oneskin.co with code LEGALAF. After you purchase, tell them about us and support our show until we sent you. So invest in your health and longevity

of your skin with OneSkin. Welcome back. Those are the ways to help support this network. Our pro-democracy sponsors, we vet all the products, we like the products. And listen, I'm not here to spend other people's money. If you can afford it and you think it's interesting and it fits with your life or lifestyle,

we certainly would like you to try it. It helps the network continue to grow. Legal AF, as I mentioned, the YouTube channel Legal AF MTN for the Midas Touch Network. Come on over there. We've got, we're building that pro-democracy channel and that also helps. I'm doing my work in both places, Midas Touch and Legal AF. And then of course we've got the Patreon, patreon.com slash Legal AF. And of course we have Kara Freeman at NIFILA with regular hot takes and legal commentary on the Midas Touch Network and when she can on Legal AF as well. So let's dive in Karen. You got two, I think two of the many lawsuits that we've

outlined tonight are indicative of a disease within the Trump administration. It's just corrupt and the way they handle things. First is their attempt to decapitate the FBI, hollow it out. You've got Emil Bové, who in letter writing, knowing it's going to be public, says things like, we're not going to fire the FBI agents who worked on Jan 6 as long as they were doing their job and doing that great job that they always do. Great job that they always do? Cash Patel, who's up for the FBI position, has said in writings that he thinks the FBI is corrupt and that he should shutter the FBI headquarters and turn it into a museum dedicated to the deep state.

While Emil Boves says, no, we weren't going to fire people for political retribution. What are you talking about? We just asked to have the core group of FBI agents who worked on Jan 6 because we want to throw them a party at the White House. What are you? Seriously. So we have this brawl that's broken out in broad daylight between the holdover Biden administration, FBI leadership, who have told, Elon Musk, that'll be the next story, who have told Emil Boves, who by the way is aging before our very eyes. One day we'll put up side by side photos

of Emil Boves in the last year. I mean, he's literally becoming the crypt keeper. I mean, you could just tell what's going on corruptly by looking at a meal pov. So he says he's, he's, he's gonna basically, I want to names of everybody. Then when the leadership said no, go f off, literally said go f off, he then called them in subordinate and said, Well, you're, you guys are definitely gonna get fired, but the rest of the rank and file, don't worry. Don't worry, as long as you, and then there's such a criteria to not be worried

that it actually is an exception that eats the rule. Don't worry, as long as you didn't use any discretion, aren't political, just for doing your job and following orders based on how we evaluate you, you'll keep your job. Does anybody really believe that? Well, two groups of FBI agents don't believe that. One group in particular, they both filed versions of class actions or called Jane or John Doe actions. There's gonna be a lot of Jane and John Doe

actions because people need to have their names anonymous because of the tremendous acts of retribution that Donald Trump has already threatened. So it's a way to anonymize these people. The court, the judge will ultimately know and the lawyers know, but they're sworn to secrecy. So you and I are going to talk a lot in the next four years about Jane Doe and John Doe versus the Trump administration. But in these cases, they're arguing, and there's one in particular that took my breath away by these FBI agents, Karen, where they took social, so smart, their lawyers to go look at social media on Jan 6th pardoned insurrectionists, including at the top of that food chain like Enrique Tarrio who got 22 years as a proud boy or

the Oath Keepers, where they're putting a target on the back of individually named FBI agents who worked on their cases calling for their heads on a pike and the FBI lawsuits are like see what's happening a that's why we have to be anonymous and be look what's gonna happen to the Department of Justice with this retribution that's going on and it violates the Administrative Procedures Act it violates the Administrative Procedures Act, it violates the First Amendment because of our perceived political parties, and that's a common denominator for our audience. You're going to hear a lot about the Administrative Procedures Act, which is all government cabinet positions, agencies have to

operate consistent with the APA. And if you do things that are arbitrary and capricious, violate rulemaking, act in a way that's discriminatory, it can violate the Administrative Procedures Act. It's the number one way to get them. Then you argue it violates the Constitution. You find something in the Constitution, the Fifth Amendment, the Fourteenth Amendment, due process or something like that. And then you have the First Amendment because Donald Trump going after woke and DEI and

Democrats and liberals, that's just code word for I don't like the content of your speech because you're the opposite party of mine. And that you cannot do under the First Amendment. So a lot of these suits are gonna look sort of the same and same framework as they're being generated. You have a lot of experience with prosecutors. You have a lot of experience, of gonna look sort of the same and same framework as they're being generated. You have a lot of experience with prosecutors. You have a lot of experience, of course, Karen, working with investigators, including with the FBI. But give us your take of the attempted political retribution

and firing and the merits of these lawsuits that have been filed. Look, make no mistake, this is trying to be a mass purge of the FBI and they're doing this to be retributive. They view that the January six insurrectionists, all the people as they're trying to rewrite history. They're trying to make it seem like we didn't see those videos of violence. We didn't see the people who were violently,

this was not a peaceful protest on January six. We have it on video. And, and PS they were doing it to try and steal an election. They're trying to rewrite history and make that into this day of incredible patriotism. They're trying to change the national anthem. And so what are they doing? They're trying to be retributive against anyone who worked on a January 6 case. Well, PS, that's the entire FBI. Because they were investigating,

these had tentacles all over the country. They were investigating people all over the country. And so they are, this is their way of punishing the FBI, who P.S., these are people who are doing their job, right? You get handed an assignment. You don't get to say whether you wanna do it or not. These are apolitical jobs. I was in law enforcement for three decades. You don't go after people because of their political party

or their beliefs. You look at their conduct and it has to be content neutral. It can't be about what their beliefs are, their speeches, and it never has been. And that's just the way law enforcement works and that's the way FBI agents work. And so you get handed a file by your supervisor And that's just the way law enforcement works. And that's the way FBI agents work. And so you get handed a file by your supervisor

and says, go investigate whether a crime was committed or not. If a crime was committed, they follow those breadcrumbs and they bring that into court. And they bring charges through the Department of Justice. They don't make up facts. They don't go after some people and not others. It's just sort of ridiculous to think that that's how it's done. So they're literally trying to mass purge the FBI the way

they are trying to do with the CIA, by the way. They've offered buyouts for every single person in the CIA. They want to dismantle the entire Central Intelligence Agency and make it go away. Just the safety and security of our nation, if we lose the CIA and the FBI, if they resign in mass, or if they get fired is terrifying to me. When you think about all the things that those agencies do together with counterintelligence, etc., to protect us from terrorism, to protect us from terrorism within our country as well, the white supremacists, the Timothy McVeighs of the world, the various things that have happened that without them, we would have been in such a worse position.

I mean, I credit the FBI with keeping us safe after 9-11. I want to knock on wood. We haven't had another terrorist attack like that on our soil. And that has a lot to do with what the FBI and the CIA has done in the contacts they've made all around the world. And so all these things are related because then it gets to the USAID agency that they're trying to dismantle. And that's part of our goodwill around the world and why we can develop these

types of sources is because we help people all around the world, but they don't see it like that. And so, and so what, what they're trying to do is dismantle and do this mass retributive purge of the FBI. It's extremely aggressive how they're doing it. And typically, though, FBI agents and Department of Justice attorneys, AUSAs, typically these are civil servants protected by civil service law, and you can't just fire them for political reasons.

So normally you have to go through a procedure that takes, I don't know, 18 months, where if you wanna fire someone who's in that type of role, you have to give them performance improvement plans, you have to give them feedback and criticisms and all of that, and give them an opportunity to try and get better. And then only after you go through all of those procedures, can you fire someone because they're not doing a good job.

You can't fire someone based on their views. Frankly, it's a First Amendment violation in addition to it not being lawful based on civil service laws and rights that exist. But what Trump is trying to do is he's trying to say, no, these aren't civil service roles. These are political roles because you can fire these political positions like the US attorney themselves. Those are always appointed by the president, whoever is the president.

That's a political appointment. That's not a civil service appointment. So those are ones that you can get rid of. And that's why typically when there's a new administration, every United States attorney hands in their resignation and allows the incoming president to either accept the resignation and appoint their own person or ask them to stay,

which if you recall, Trump asked Preet Bharara, who was the US attorney for the Southern District of New York to stay in his first term, which Preet did and lasted, I don't know, a couple of months. But Trump wanted to talk to him on the phone and talk to him about cases and really wanted to interfere with the autonomy and Preet famously ended up getting fired because he wouldn't swear an oath to Trump, he would only swear an oath to the Constitution. And that's what Trump expects. He expects loyalty to him, not to the country or the Constitution. And so what they're saying is these FBI agents and AUSAs

who they fired, right, who worked on January 6 cases, or who they're investigating, they're investigating the investigators and prosecuting the prosecutors. What they're doing is they're saying these are political positions, and they're not serving our country because they actively went and tried to prosecute the person

who is now the President of the United States. How could they possibly work in the executive branch? So that's the theory under which they are doing these either investigations or firings or prosecutions, ultimately what they could potentially do. But that's what they're trying to do here. And make no mistake about it. And I'm heartened by the fact that the FBI is joining together and trying to file lawsuits to basically protect us. I mean, we need them. We need the FBI in place. We need the men and women who dedicate their lives to saving our lives and to protecting us. And, you know, they'll do things, though. They'll send them down to positions. You know, if it turns out that they can't fire them,

they'll try to put them in position, demote them. They'll put them in positions that are not desirable. They'll hassle them by moving them far away and making their families get uprooted. You know, they'll get a lot of people to resign one way or another. But it's a really dangerous, dangerous thing that they're trying to do. But it's fascinating. I saw there was a tweet or a blue sky from Mueller, she wrote, where she said, I'm hearing

from federal employees that they're being told to file a Freedom of Information Act request if they want their employee records, meaning they've been locked out of their records and have to file a FOIA request to get them. I mean, unbelievable what federal employees are having to do just to be able to proceed and move forward and potentially get information

to use to protect themselves. So thankfully the FBI is pushing back. Many leaders are pushing back. I love there's one, this guy who's, I guess the accidental acting, his name is Driscoll. They call him Driz. He's sort of this un- He was the Newark field office. Yeah, exactly. I think they accidentally, suddenly his name was like he was up there.

And he's sort of this quiet, understated guy. He's the real deal when you look at his background. He's served in all these wars and he's like a total true hero. And he is he's sort of he when they were demanded that you give over the names of all 5000 FBI agents who've worked on Jan six cases, he wasn't going to just say no. So instead, he gave them just like, like he gave them their employee numbers. Yeah, exactly. Like, okay, I'm going to be compliant, but not compliant. And you know, they're, they're,

they're saying public safety concerns, like you said, Popok, they don't you know, there's real public safety reasons to not have your name and information out there. And you mentioned one of the public safety issues, which is, you know, what they said in their papers that there's MAGA people are going to come after them and retaliate against them. I read between the lines. I think they're just just scared of Trump and Trump's henchmen you know that's what they're afraid of is is that retaliation so yeah that's that's what I think is going on

over there but hopefully hopefully the good guys will win because our our safety depends on it. Yeah I was looking up in one of the cases, FBI Agents Association, John Doe one through one through four and Jane Doe one through three against the United States Department of Justice, they have reproduced. Just terrifying. This one from Enrique Tarrio. This is on page nine of the complaint. For example, on February 1, 2025, a leader of the violent Proud Boys gang publicly posted the following on social media. I'm calling for the firing and the arrest of Special Agent Nicole Miller of the FBI

for perjury, tampering with evidence and violating 1512 obstructing an official proceeding. This is now the jail, jailing the jailers. Throughout the trial, agent Nicole Miller lied on the stand, tampered with evidence, there's no evidence of this. Eaves dropped an attorney client privilege call. She hid her messages that showed her bias.

She must be brought to justice. To all Jan Sixers, I encourage you to tell your stories and name those who committed these heinous acts. They tried to take our lives for political gain. This guy went to jail for 22 years because a federal judge, having heard the evidence, and a jury heard the evidence against Enrique Tarrio and a judge, Judge Mehta sentenced him.

Only to be pardoned by Trump. Pardoned by Trump that night, the day of January 20th, he was partying in Miami. Mr. Tarrio, it continues, has threatened that the people who did this, if they feel they eat, they need to be put behind bars. They then went over another posting of another another Jan Sixer about the FBI better have filled out that survey today, asking about his Jan six prosecution persecution involvement. You know, this is what happened. You put on the street all of the criminal crazies

and now the FBI is going, who's gonna protect us? You made, you exactly. And you made a great point in one of your, I can't remember where you said it, but it was in one of your hot takes or one of your podcasts. You made a great point about how these are, the FBI suits are being brought in Washington DC in front of the same judges that are the judges who sentenced people like this judge who sent

it someone to 20 and recutario to 20 years who heard the evidence who heard the threat against the FBI who sat there and was was was there when when they saw this the danger to the FBI agents those are the same judges who are going to be ruling on these cases. Think about how extraordinary it is I wanted to tell our people because you and I practice so it doesn't seem this was the largest manhunt and investigation of prosecution of the history of the Department of Justice okay it resulted in 1,600 prosecutions in one courthouse in in one courthouse during one, two and a half or three year, let's say three year period. It's extraordinary. That means every judge

in the District of Columbia had multiple dozens and dozens of cases that touched on Jan 6th. They heard the evidence. They saw the videos. They heard the audios. They saw these people act out in court. They sentenced these people and they are the audios, they saw these people act out in court, they sentenced these people and they are in horror, they're horrified by Donald Trump having released these criminals, convicted criminals, violent criminals who beat, maimed, tried to brain and kill law enforcement

and would have done worse to elected officials if they had the chance. And these people are now out directing traffic about how to go after the FBI. All right, so now it's going to be the same federal, this is the revenge of the Jan 6 judges and the Biden judges. I mean, they're going to be impartial, they're going to do their job, they're going to call balls and strikes, but woe be the Department of Justice officials for the Trump administration who are going to come before these judges, they're not going to have any credit. The only thing you and I have as lawyers, really the only thing we have, is our credibility.

Credibility, yep. Our credibility with juries, with clients and with judges. You lose that and you have nothing else. That means everything that comes out of the word, out of the mouth of the Department of Justice is going to be cross-examined by federal judges who are not gonna take them at their word, who are not gonna believe their arguments, who are not gonna,

they're gonna tell their law clerks, read every case, make sure it says what it's supposed to say. And so there's not gonna be, you as a prosecutor, at least when you ran your office and you were in the courtrooms, I want to say you got the benefit of the doubt, but you had a tremendous amount of credibility. When you said a case stood for a certain proposition, the judge believed you. When you said the evidence supported a certain position, I mean, not to say you won every

hearing or every trial, but you had a certain amount of wind at your back and wind at your sail. The Department of Justice has shredded that in all their acting attorney generals and all because of the ludicrous positions they're taking, the telling the judges in writing that they're not gonna initially comply with orders. We just got a filing in Rhode Island to tell Judge McConnell that the way they read

the temporary restraining order, which has now been, oh now been oh now been no that hasn't been supplanted there's two TROs in the federal funding area but they're telling that judge in the compliance order but they're not complying that they well we don't understand your order it's in plain English there's ambiguous terms that could that could infringe on separation of powers I don't see that And we don't think it applies to the executive order about funding at all. It applies to the OMB memo. That's too cute by half. And we don't think it applies to any of the departments under Donald Trump because they're not here actually as defendants. This is the gamesmanship that they're going

to try to play. They're're gonna lose in front of federal judges Cabinet members are gonna be put in jail I'm telling you straight now and then we're up to the various appellate courts and maybe the Supreme Court finds any of this interesting Can we switch gears and talk about Elon? Well, how about this when we come back from our last break? Let's do Elon Musk and Doge and And his multiple ways that he has violated the separation of powers. He's not a confirmed by the Senate cabinet member. He doesn't get to just roam around and look in our cabinets and our drawers and our personal financial data because he feels like it. And now federal judges are basically saying the

same thing. So let's take our next break. Let's get our pro-democracy sponsors in here. Let's get a, let's make our final push for the last round here, the final stretch here on Legal AF. Let's be real. 2025 has been all about change. Whether it's work, the world, personal stuff, or just the daily grind, it can be hard to keep up. But here's the deal.

When things get hectic, we don't have to go through it alone. Embrace the power of nature and elevate your everyday with VIA. Trusted by over half a million happy customers, VIA is the Swiss Army Knife of Wellness, dedicated to harnessing the natural benefits of hemp to create high quality wellness products. Whether you're looking to

improve your sleep, focus, recovery, or add a little pep to your step, Vaya has something for you. With products ranging from 0 to 100 milligrams of THC, Vaya gives you the power to blaze your own trail. Vaya is well-renowned for their award-winning THC and THC-free gummies and vapes. THCA flour-soothing topicals and calming drops. All crafted with the highest quality hemp, sourced from trusted, independently owned American farms. And the best part, Vaya legally ships to nearly all states in the US in discrete packaging, directly to your door door with a worry-free guarantee.

No medical card required. So if you're 21 years or older, check out our link to Vaya's website, link in our description, and use code LegalAF for 15% off. And if you're new to Vaya, get a free gift of your choice. Look, for me, with my sleep compromised by my media career and my family commitments, I need to get the most out of every bit of my pillow and brain turnoff time. That's where Viya's dreams, Sleep Gummies with 10 milligrams THC came in handy. I was able to enjoy peaceful sleep, but with the peace of mind that I was doing it with all natural products and ingredients, formulate it to promote sleep and calm the mind as well. And with no grogginess when it was finally time to get up. Unlock the power of nature with

VIA's organic and vegan hemp extracts, perfect for relaxation and rejuvenation. VIA is the only lifestyle hemp brand. They use compounds found in hemp, along with active plant extracts to create products, each with a specific effect in mind. VIA is well known for their premium THCA flour, grown indoors in state-of-the-art facilities and harvested at peak THCA levels to emphasize a natural aroma and flavor. The THCA flour strains are grown with care and rigorously tested to ensure the highest quality, free from harsh pesticides or nasty chemicals. Vaya's premium products fit your budget

and their customer service experience is, well, a dream. If you're 21 years or older, check out the link to Vaya in our description and use the code LegalAF to receive 15% off. And if you're new to Vaya, get a free gift of your choice. After you purchase, they ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Enhance your every day with Vaya. As a kid I loved eating cereal, but as an adult I don't want all that. And most cereals don't give me the protein I need.

Then I found Magic Spoon, a nostalgically delicious cereal that tastes just like my childhood favorites, but without the sugar and with a ton of protein. And if you're already a Magic Spoon fan, I've got big news. Magic Spoon has turned their super popular cereal into high protein treats that are light, crispy, I've got big news. Magic Spoon has turned their super popular cereal into high protein treats that are light, crispy, and tastes just like those classic crunchy cereal bars.

Magic Spoon's brand new treats are so delicious and have already become my favorite before or after Jim's snack. Magic Spoon has literally changed the way we view our pantry in my family. Now when my wife and I are looking for a quick high protein snack that makes us instantly nostalgic with that warm

and fuzzy comfort food feeling, we reach for Magic Spoon's new cereal bars. Every serving of Magic Spoon cereal has 13 grams of protein, 0 grams of sugar, and 4 grams of net carbs, so you can feel good about what you're eating. The most popular flavors are fruity and cocoa, and four grams of net carbs, so you can feel good about what you're eating. The most popular flavors are fruity and cocoa,

and there's so many more. Magic Spoon's brand new treats are crispy, crunchy, airy, and an easy way to get 12 grams of protein on the go. And for the first time ever, Magic Spoon treats are available in grocery stores with delicious flavors like marshmallow and chocolatey peanut butter.

Magic Spoon treats have replaced all my other bars. Just the right balance of delicious flavor, great mouthfeel and texture, and the best part, they are high in protein and low in carbs. Don't tell my wife, but after a long day of Legal AF video recording and research, Magic Spoon has become my occasional midnight snack treat. Honey, we're out of Magic Spoon again, a common refrain in my household.

Get $5 off your next order at magic spoon.com slash Legal AF or look for Magic Spoon on Amazon or in your nearest grocery store. That's magic spoon.com slash legal AF for $5 off magic spoon. Hold on to the dream. And we are back. So inside those 32 cases are also the ones that getting everybody upset, which is Elon Musk. We said at the top of the administration

after the election that after seeing the remit that Donald Trump was willing to give Elon Musk and the one he was willing to give RFK jr. if he ever gets confirmed, pardon me, what was left for Donald Trump to do? It looked like Elon Musk was going to be the president and about everything technological payments, budget and foreign and government contracting and RFK jr. was going to do the rest Medicare, Medicaid, health policies and everything else that makes the economy hum and now it's sort of coming into fruition because Donald Trump's just thrown the keys of the government over to Donald Trump and said

Over to Elon Musk and said oh you want to go rummage around the servers that control the payment system? for those that thought Where is Vivek Ramaswamy? When you need him he was like oh, we'll never touch Social Security and Medicare. Oh, I'm double-parked everybody See ya and he left before the inauguration Remember there were three co-heads of Doge. Howard Lutnick, who's now the commerce secretary, who stood there in a picture with Elon Musk

and some weird, like Jeff Bezos too tight t-shirt thing with their arms folded talking about how they're gonna slash and burn the federal budget and entitlements and all that. He's gone. And then Vivek Ramaswamy was like, I'm out. And it left Musk, you know, who lost the battle to get his office in the White House. It's over next door at another office building. He sleeps there, by the way. Well, he's crazy. And he brought in all his people from the... You mean his six 23 year olds?

Yeah, and all his 14 kids named X or whatever they are. And right, brings them all in. And now talk about the crossing the Rubicon, it's not the right metaphor. He, I never thought I would see the day that the treasury secretary completely bent over and gave Elon Musk, subject to court super court orders, gave Elon Musk the keys to the Bureau of Financial Services, which is the entity that nobody ever heard of, but now we can't

stop talking about it, which controls two things. Revenue coming into the United States to the tune of $4.8 trillion, which primarily comes from income tax and foreign income tax and corporate income tax payments, a little bit of tariff, and I'll talk about tariffs in a minute, and pays out based on congressional allocation to individual taxpayers who've earned their food stamp and Medicare, Medicaid, disability, all the rest of that, about the same amount. So like the back and forth is about $10 trillion worth of payments that go through this one office, right?

And so you got that. So he let him in to take control of the servers. On those servers are your and my, especially yours, Karen, private financial information that makes it a crime if anybody reviews your IRS information, anything related to your disability, medical information that supports pay, it's all there on the servers and it is a crime to access it. Not only did Musk try to access it, leading to a guy quitting over it, who'd been doing this job, just making donuts for 30 years, getting payments out, making sure they're on time,

making sure the trains run time, He's like, I'm out. First he resisted and then he said, I retire. Boom, he's gone. But Musk then turned it over to another third party contractor nobody's ever heard of to let him rummage around the servers and muck up the works. I heard they brought in their own servers to, you know, their own like computers that they hooked up to it

and run through them. I mean, talk about, just don't interrupt, but do you remember how upset they were getting about Hillary's emails and Hillary's email server? The email server in the basement? Exactly, her email server in the basement. And meanwhile, they're just bringing in their tests, their extra test.

Their vacuum cleaners. Yeah, it's like their extra Tesla, you walk them in with your computers and you plug them in and you're using those for all of our sensitive information. And you know, you joke about, oh, you know, especially you, Karen. But when I think about, but I but I but I'm thinking about somebody, a very close family member who receives SSDI because they are disabled. And my mother gets all security. This is, but this is, this is, you know, people,

and when I think about what amount of information we had to provide in order to qualify, it is the most personal, the most sensitive medical and other information that they make you give in order to get these government entitlements to think that somebody like Elon Musk, who's not Senate confirmed, who is not been vetted in any way, who has actual conflicts of interest that we're going to dive into and brings in again, his team of six 25 year olds, who again, just kind of they all sleep, they're all expected to sleep in the office and work seven days a week. And they just plug in and do whatever.

To lose ball and a keg. Exactly. And just to think that they're in there going through all of, you know, all of our sensitive private information. It's, it's actually makes me kind of sick to my stomach to think about. Trying to do through the back door, which they can't accomplish in the front door. Cause they've been enjoined in these temporary restraining orders

from cutting off funding. Well, one way to cut off funding and attack the $3 trillion of that amount that goes to people on social security, disability, veterans payments, student loans and the like, is to slow down the check payment. And he actually had the balls to say out loud that they were justified to go in there

because in their interview with the Bureau of Financial Services that's been in one form or another in our Congress, in our government since 1937 by FDR. It got put together in one agency by Tim Geithner, the former treasury secretary, I think in 2012. But we've had this thing forever. And he said, I asked them, have you ever denied printing a check or making a direct deposit because of some fraud? And they said, no, because no, you pay fraudulently? No, no, idiot.

That's the argument they want to make. that's the false narrative they want to make. It's not up to the checkbook to decide whether the payee that's being paid is a fraud or not. It's up to the inspector's general that Trump just fired from the various agencies and has not replaced to root out fraud and corruption within an individual payment process or system. That's what they get paid to do, okay? And then people can also report fraud. There's other ways to catch fraud. There's investigations, the FBI. But when you hollow out all of our investigative agencies and you fire all of our attorneys general, and then you expect the paymaster, the checkbook to investigate fraud,

this is money allocated by Congress. They have the purse strings, not the executive branch. And for Bissett, you know, who had a very tearful confirmation here that actually touched me a little bit, you know, he's like the first openly gay treasury secretary, had his husband there, you know, was a way for the Trumpers to say, see, we're okay with LGBT or some version of it. See, he's the first open-legate Treasury guy. I was like, well, let's start touching. And now he's just gonna turn over the keys to Elon Musk and let him root around in there. Not if federal judges have their way. Not if federal judges have their way, like Judge Kitele. So we've got multiple lawsuits

against Elon Musk, particularly, that he doesn't have the right to invade privacy or to exploit that it's a crime, that it is against IRS regulations, that it is against due process and the rest, and Administrative Procedures Act. And Bessent, as the Treasury Secretary, doesn't have the right to delegate authority of this nature to somebody like Elon Musk. And those are up with judges now in two separate cases. One about Elon Musk controlling the office of personnel management server to try to fire people through it with an address

and also have access and make insecure all that server data which is a lot of private information again. So it's data breach, privacy breach. And then you've got the lawsuit which Judge Kitelli has right now. We're waiting for the Department of Justice for Trump to file their response. She's given them till tonight to say, will you agree to keep Elon Musk away from those servers and not use any of the data that he might

have obtained or do I have to issue an injunction? Let me know by the end of the night tonight. And I think that's perfect. It's a great way to trap the Trump administration and also call out how, how, I was gonna say unreliable, how untrustworthy the Trump administration's Department of Justice is. Any self-respecting prosecutor, or member of the Department of Justice, would say, of course, we'll hold the ring

until the court has the time to handle this matter. You don't have to do anything rash, we'll do it. But you know it's not gonna be their position. I'd be shocked if that's their position. So she'll use it against them when they trip over the wire she set for them. So that's where we are. Anything else you wanna add to Elon Musk?

Yeah, yeah. Elon Musk gets under my skin more than almost anyone else in the Trump world for the following reasons. First of all, he is not appointed and he has not gone through any confirmation hearing. He is not, he's just sort of, he's getting around the requirements that are typically there. If you want to head an agency, first of all, you have to create the agency, but instead they put doge under it.

They sort of subsumed the IT department in the White House and made that doge. And so they're trying to get around having to create a new agency that way. And they're not going through the process of nominating someone, getting the advice and consent of the Senate, and then having that person be put into the head of the agency, which would then be managed by the executive branch, managed by the president. But agencies are created through Congress.

They are appropriated through Congress. Congress creates them, they pay their salaries, they appropriate money to them, and they literally make the decisions about whether to cut the checks or not, and how to make that work. And so they're getting around all of that by just saying, Oh, he's just helping out kind of thing. He's not, it's like he's not going through all the checks and balances that go there. He instead, I think they're using what is called a special government employee. And there's a law that talks about a special government employee, or an SGE as they call it.

And it's an officer or employee in the executive branch of the federal government who's appointed to perform important but limited services to the government with or without compensation for a period not to exceed 130 days. So it's interesting because it also has to do with the ethics rules apply slightly differently to the SGEs than they do to other normal government

employees, but let's just talk a little bit about ethics and conflicts of interest. This is what gets under my skin. So first of all, he's getting around all of that. So his big thing is we spend too much money, we spend too much money, we spend too much money, we want more efficiency. Well, you can't argue with that conceptually, right?

Efficiency is good, taxpayer dollars, you want to spend that gingerly, you don't want to waste any of that, you don't want fraud, et cetera. So no one disagrees with the concept. But he is slashing essential services. He is taking the money, first of all, forgetting the fact that it's lawless,

because this is money that Congress has appropriated for these purposes. But there are decades of reasons why these things happen, whether it's goodwill, whether it's helping people, whether it's programs, whether it's things that we've learned through the years that are good. And so we have, you know, it's not easy to pass a law or get money appropriated for something. And he's just really just doing away with all of this saying it's wasted money. And then he has the the 25 year old press secretary

stand outside and reading, Oh, well, we, we paid for DEI here and we paid for this there. And she's picking out some ridiculous ones that I'm sure sound ridiculous and no one would say, oh, I don't want my money going to that. You could see someone saying that, but we need to come out, PO-POC, and talk about the stories of the people who are affected, who I think, who are really impacted by this and the real people who are affected, who I think, you know, who are really impacted by this,

and the real people who are impacted by this. And it's really people who need it, right? Anyone who gets government money, as you said before, it's like the not-for-profits. It's the people who are struggling or the people who need these, this funding that has been appropriated. Those are the ones who are going to be hurt the worst. And the thing that drives me crazy about Musk is he probably receives more than anyone else in the United States, more government money than anyone.

More tax levy dollars go into Elon Musk's pockets than any other human being, I would argue, in the United States of America. I could be wrong, but I bet I'm not. With the number of defense contracts that he has, those are all taxpayer dollars. And so he has the biggest conflict of interest of all. I would love to see, is he going to slash money from, that's going to affect him and his pocket? It's this country's taxpayer dollars that have allowed him to become the richest man in the world. That is our money. I think he's got $3 billion worth of contracts

and about a dozen contracts currently. Currently, okay. But if you look over time, I bet it's a lot more. And guess what? He's the one who decided, you know what I want? I wanna send someone to, I wanna send people to Mars. You know, and that's his- Erin, with all due respect,

I don't know why you're worried about this, because Carolyn LeVette, the press secretary, who I trust implicitly, as soon as she opens her mouth, I'm instantly comforted. She said today that we should not worry as American people, because Elon Musk is going to decide for Elon Musk, whether there's any conflicts of interest. How do you, don't you feel better now? You know, kind of like Clarence Thomas, right? I'll let you know if there's a conflict here, if I, you know, take things from my Nazi billionaire

friend. But this even makes Clarence Thomas look like, OK, yeah, he goes on vacations every once in a while. What's the big deal? This is lining Elon Musk's pockets with billions of dollars to play with his toys, to go up into outer space. Right. I care much more about helping people who are unhoused or people who are disabled or people who are in this country who actually need by taxpayer dollars. That's what I want to spend money on. Or diversity. Right. I care about diversity. I think it's an important thing.

I hate that DEI has been being used as some kind of terrible world word DEI is is what empowers people, you know, and I just think that that that they are there They're messaging is terrible. Meanwhile, we are forgetting the fact that he is the one who's lining his own pockets with our taxpayer dollars And that message has to I think that is what has to be hammered home and no I don't feel more comfortable that He is going to decide what's a conflict or not Because I it really upsets me that that my tax dollars are going to him so that he can put send his little rocket Chips up into space because you know, he thinks that's fun with his friends. Yeah, we've all we've we've basically delegated from the from NASA to

without sourced our space program to Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. And that's only gonna continue. If he made- And our satellite program. Yeah, if he made $3 billion during the last administration. And that's why people are saying, why is he taking on Europe?

And why is he writing all this? Because Europe has been regulating the crap out of Musk and he hates Europe and the European Union and he wants them to get off his back and let him do all the crazy things with Starlink and with Tesla. He builds his batteries and he builds his cars a lot in China, not in Mexico and not in Canada. So if you want to look for warped policy, just all roads lead back to Elon Musk. Look, he bought a presidency. He spent $200 million to get Donald Trump elected, and he's gotten $200 billion already in net worth accumulation between his Bitcoin holdings, cryptocurrency holdings, and that of Tesla since that time. That's a return on investment that's eye popping and eye watering while there are people in our audience that if they miss their next social security payment or food stamp

payment are going to live on the street. Because Donald Trump's cabinet and those in his inner circle and those in his administration, because of their wealth, because of their immorality, are so disconnected from the average American person and their life because they've never had a call utilities company and try to convince them to put the lights back on or put the heat back on or convince an oil company to make a delivery when money was owed so they have heat in the house, right? Or figure out how to make a food stamp stretch to cover X, Y, and Z or explain to their child why they can't afford something that the kids in their class have in their backpack.

See, they've never had to do that. And so they don't know what it means. I worked for a guy that during his confirmation hearing declared that he's made enough money in his life. It doesn't have to make anymore, and therefore wants to be a good patriot and be in the cabinet the meantime He's got a 90 page conflict of interest letter because he's a part of 1700 limited liability companies that he says he's gonna quote unquote divest which means he's gonna turn it over to his family and he wants he wants credit for that as

Our audience and people that our audience are like I I can't, I've had people write me here in a PO-POK Live, another show that I do, they write me and they say, if I miss a check, if it comes in even late, I'm hanging by a thread here, PO-POK. And I believe me, my background, my upbringing, where I came from, I'm a public school kid, my parents were, I would I would say middle to upper

middle class, you know, but but but that's it, you know, they didn't go to college. My mom went for a year. My dad went for a year. My grandfather's was a seltzer man and somebody that pushed a cart when he was eight years old on the Lower East Side selling trinkets and graduated from the fifth grade. Okay, side selling trinkets and graduated from the fifth grade. Okay, those are my people. So I'm connected. Okay, I know what it's like. Okay, I had a period of my life when I graduated college, crushed with debt from law school

or graduated law school, crushed with debt from law school and had my first paying job that didn't pay enough. And I'm not making this up. And I was 25 and I had to decide with my fiance at the time whether we were gonna go to Pizza Hut or we were gonna pay the electric bill those were our choices at the moment so I get it I empathize but that's not the people that are in government and that's not the people that are in Trump's oligarchy government

you know Jeff Bezos biggest concern is know, how big his yacht is or how young his girlfriend is. Those are not my concerns and not the concerns of Legal AF. Let's do the last topic here, Karen, right on that moment. What are we watching with this? I mean, he's really lost it. There's no other way to put it. It's just, it's not a policy, it's not a doctrine. It's that he's gone, he's mad as a hatter. He stands in front of the American people who voted, I thought, for America and America first and says that they're gonna take over Gaza

while the peace process hasn't even played out and hostages are still being exchanged. He starts a trade war with three countries that collectively are responsible for 40 percent of our imports you know china is more than muscular enough to fight back against that it has already canada and mexico won the trade war whatever that was supposed to be you know while he pulls us out of foreign aid that for every dollar of foreign aid there's a u.s job behind. Where do people think the foreign aid, who's making the stuff that's ending up in these foreign countries to alleviate poverty and illiteracy and everything

else? America. So he's doing all this all at the exact same time, regardless of what it does to the economy, right? And so what are we watching, Karen? I mean, I'm asking it legitimately. What are we watching here in the first 15 days? What are you observing in the chaos that is swirling around the Trump administration? He's, look, if we open our eyes and look at what Vladimir Putin has done, frankly, that's the playbook.

I think he is very much wants to be Putin. He's always had a kind of a man crush on him. He thinks he's tough. And I think Putin is eating his lunch, you know, and showing these naked or suggestive things of photos of Melania on Russian television. I mean, Putin is just sort of showing muscular toughness, which Donald Trump likes, and Donald Trump sees how he's annexed Crimea, how he started the war in Ukraine. And so what is Trump doing?

Well, I could do that too. I want Canada. I want Mexico. I want the Panama Canal. Oh, I'll take Greenland. You know, and now it's the Gaza Riviera I mean, he's just he literally wants to be Vladimir Putin I think is part of what we're watching and

I think it's so clear with the Russian misinformation that has come to this country that What is Vladimir Putin want? They want our allies to hate us. And what's happening with the tariffs and pulling out of all of the various treaties that we have engaged in, provoking Iran. I mean, we're watching all of the hard work that has been done by this country get undone very quickly. And there's only one place

that seems to be benefiting from it. And that is Vladimir Putin. I mean, it's just shocking to me how much this is really, really playing into that playbook, right? And I mean, again, I was watching something, one of the hot takes on Midas Touch, I think this might've been Ben's, where he was talking about how

Marco Rubio went on Megyn Kelly and was parroting Vladimir Putin saying the US shouldn't be a world leader, everyone should be self-interested, China should be their own leader, Russia and us too. I mean, it's like this is exactly what Vladimir Putin wants, right? This is what he wants is to make it so that we are no longer a world leader. And so I just think that's what's happening here. And it just it's so obvious that that's what's happening. And the only place that I'm getting the information that's the truth is on Midas Touch, frankly. And I read, especially in preparation for legal AF every week, but every day, too, I very much I read all the papers. I, you know, whatever.

I have all my different things that I do like you do. But where I get the real interpretation, like what does this mean for us? And I get it with evidence is on Midas, right? It's it's watching you. It's watching Ben. It's watching the information that's coming out on Midas. And there's some other really good ones out there too, I think, as well. Just Security is a good one. That's a great place for information. The Contrarian is a good place

for information. And there are others as well. But what I love about what we're doing and what Midas is doing and what the Legal AF YouTube channel is doing is not just giving the information, but it's interpreting it and putting it into context. And so hearing the words that Marco Rubio said about us, about where he sees us in the world, and then having Ben put that into the context of that's what they're saying on Russian TV as well.

I think it's just really important. And I think it's something that we need to really put into context for people and explain to everyone what's going on. But that's what I see is I see Donald Trump just acting lawlessness and trying to become an autocrat. Yeah, I think it's a perfect synopsis. And we're going to continue to follow the I mean, this is 15 days in 32 lawsuits for TROs,

a preliminary injunction, violation of human rights, a threat of genocide, trade war loss, Bitcoin cryptocurrency upside down, and a Department of Justice that's lost all credibility in front of federal judges that are not friendly to Donald Trump. And so trust that process, trust this process, trust Legal AF and the Midas Touch Network. We do this show twice a week for those that are new to the show. Wednesday and Saturday at 8 p.m. Eastern time, right here, Wednesday's right here with Midas Touch Legal AF and Karen Freeman-Eknipolo

and me, Michael Popok. Saturdays I do it with the founder, the co-founder with me of Legal AF, Ben Mycelis. And then we do hot takes as Karen outlined here on the Midas Touch Network over on Legal AF On a regular basis. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go ping Karen on the way home and get her to do more content over on Legal AF because her voice and her point of view is sorely missing and lacking we need that over there at this trying moment in our history and

as you can see that intersection of law and politics is going to be the hottest and hottest of corners and we're gonna make we're gonna make sense of it all and we're gonna do it in our way with our brand of analysis and commentary I think like no other but we need your support. You've heard the various ways to do it. You've got the sponsors all our great pro-democracy sponsors that helped sponsor this particular episode. We have no outside investors, as you've heard. We are people powered. We are building this network with channels with you,

our audience together. We're humbled by your support and the growth of both of our channels and all of that. And then, you know, that's all we can ask for. So Karen, why don't you give us the last word and close it out for us. Well, Popak, you once again were right as rain, as they say, you predicted that we would be

in this position when Trump won, that we would have more to talk about than ever. Like I said, I wasn't 100% sure that would be the case, but there's so much, it's like a firehose coming in of whether it's the executive orders, the lawsuits, there's so much to keep up with. And I am so grateful to be on this journey with you, with Ben, with the Midas Mighty, with the Legal AFers and all this amazing, unbelievable community. And I'm just going to leave with one story. I went to a dinner party Friday night and people were, there's this woman who's like, I know you from somewhere, I know you from somewhere, I know you from somewhere. And we were like, it couldn't be geography. And I was like, CNN?

She's like, no, I don't know what it could be. But the way she was sort of talking to me, I looked at her, I said, Midas? And she's like, yes, Midas. And we started hugging and the rest of the people at the dinner party were looking at me like, what is going on here? You got a hug? Because it's a different kind of hug. It's one thing, there are people who've recognized me from CNN, there are people who've even recognized me because of a particular client that I'm representing. But those people are just more like, Oh, yeah, I recognize you. That's what that's different. The people who recognize you for my it is it's like you hug, you cry, you feel like you're part of a community. It's a different

kind of recognizing it's like this. It's like it's like we're part of some like secret Freemason society or something. I don't even know what that is. But it's like we're part of something and we just found each other, you know? And it's pretty incredible. My wife calls it and she's experienced it with me a couple dozen times. She calls it and it's just a compliment. It's like a vibration.

Like I'll see it out of the corner of my eye. Somebody will just be like waiting with a smile on their face to say hi to me or my wife or whatever. And you're right, it just goes to a whole other level of instant connection. Connection, right. It's like connection in a way that, yeah, it's not celebrity, it's connection.

Yeah, and that's what's so incredible. And that's what I love about this place so much and about our community so much and about people who watch our show I'm laughing because one of my old law partners Texted me recently from my Miami days and said I've been hearing your name a lot lately It's all good, but we should reconnect I haven't talked to him in a few years and so I talked to him and he said you're not gonna believe this story I'll just leave you know, you'll you gonna believe this story, I'll just leave it.

You particularly, Karen, will appreciate the story. So his son is a law professor at Loyola University, criminal justice, criminal law. But it doesn't really practice law, always went right into being an academic and being a professor. So he's got a new relationship. So he goes out to California to meet the family

and walks into the family and walks into the house and there's like a big family. It's like there's always that uncle, you know, right? Every family's got that uncle. So there's an uncle there and other people. So he puts his hand out and the uncle starts quizzing him, you know, interrogating him a little bit. Like, what do you do for a living? He goes, well, you know, I graduated law school, I'm a lawyer by trade, but I don't really practice law. I'm a law professor at Loyola. And this guy just, and this, the son knows me because like he kind of grew up with me when I was at that

law firm. And he said, the guy said to him, I only listen to one lawyer in America. And Michael's like, okay. And he goes, Michael Popak. And Michael, this other Michael goes in his mind, he's like, it's gotta be the same Michael Popock. How many Michael Popocks are there? So he calls his father and his father then calls me and says, this is what this guy in California out of the blue just says that, which was so heartwarming but also hilarious.

I'm humbled by it, but it's also funny. No, it's adorable. That's adorable. So we're done with our adorable stories. Let's move on to signing off. We really love everybody that's on our audience. We can't... It's a unique audience like no other.

I've spoken to other podcasters and other people that have channels, and they don't have the level of support and community that the Midas Brothers built here and that we joined with Legal AF. They just don't have the level of support and community that the Midas Brothers built here and that we joined with Legal AF. They just don't, they're like, oh, you read your comments? I'm like, yeah, they're like, why, you don't know? They're terrible, they're abusive.

They're like, really? Like, I don't, we don't get that. I don't get that. Whenever I'm in a bad mood or something bad happens or I'm feeling down or insecure or something, I go straight to the comments. I'm like, oh, you know, I love it. And not every, not everyone's like that.

But, but not all, even the ones that are not necessarily. Yeah. Even the ones that are critical. They're still like loving. There's not, you don't have any people who are like mean and nasty. There are people who are genuinely trying to, to help and say, oh, you know, maybe if you've got different glasses or what, you know, that if you've got different glasses or

stop shopping at Walgreens for your readers, maybe you'd be better off. Anyway, we reached the end of another great episode of legal AF. I missed the last two of midweek. I ran, I did miss it. I mean, literally, but I'm glad I'm back here with you, my friend, Karen Friedman, and so shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal Aid efforts.