Legal AF by MeidasTouch - DC Federal Judge Delivers FATAL BLOW to Trump as Trial NEARS

Episode Date: December 2, 2023

MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas reports on the new ordered that was just issued by Washington DC Federal Judge Tanya Chutkan on Donald Trump’s immunity defenses. Go to https://neurohacker.com/LEGAL for up to 100$ off and as a listener of Legal AF use code LEGAL atcheckout for an extra 15% off your first purchase! Visit https://meidastouch.com for more! Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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citing the first amendment due process and double jeopardy and then tried to claim that the Constitution provides for absolute presidential immunity. My favorite line from this 49-page order, actually 48-page order is is judge Chuck in stating, defendant Donald Trump's four-year service as commander in chief did not bestow on him the divine right of kings to evade the criminal accountability

that governs his fellow citizens. Quote, no man in this country nor even the former president is so high that he is above the law. That actually echoes a prior order made by Judge Tanya Chutkin at the very outset of the January 6th committee proceedings where she ruled Donald Trump is not the king nor is he a current president. Now, as part of Judge Chuck Gaines' order and then I'm going to hand it over to you, Michael Popak, she first addressed the issue of absolute presidential immunity. She analyzed the text,

the structure, and history surrounding the potential for absolute presidential immunity. With respect to the text, she found that the impeachment judgment clause does not support Donald Trump's argument that the only way to pursue criminal charges against a president is through or former president is through the impeachment process. She just analyzes the language of that clause, and it clearly provides for the fact that it does not restrict the ability to bring criminal charges later. She analyzes the structure of the Constitution and points out that while the Supreme Court has recognized an immunity as it comes to presidents or former presidents

for civil cases for monetary lawsuits while they're in office citing Fitzgerald, the Nixon that was an employment case, she says those same considerations do not apply in the criminal fora and where no one, no man is above the law and especially that our founders wanted to make sure that presidents and former presidents would be held ultimately accountable to the law and and if they engaged in crimes to be held accountable and then she goes over the history Of the Constitution the history of this concept of immunity and says it does not apply to presidents or former presidents and then gives you that line that I just said. She then goes over the constitutional arguments as well and says the first amendment just because this involves speech

that doesn't block conduct that is criminal and then reject Donald Trump's other spurious claims of double jeopardy and somehow do process Violated by charging former president so and and Pope as I toss it to you here It's worth mentioning that this order on Friday night comes right after another order by the DC circuit court of appeals From earlier this morning where they found that there was no absolute presidential immunity in the civil cases brought against Donald Trump by members of Congress and the Capitol Police. That's my take on it. What say you, Michael Popak? Yeah, I think the two, thanks Ben. I think the two of the finest judges that sit on the DC trial court bench right now were Judge Maita,

which is the judge that the case you just mentioned came out of with those that were injured in the Capitol Police that were injured on Jan 6, are suing Donald Trump along with others for civil liability for his role in leading to their death injury or maming. And Judge Maita issued a powerful order that he believed would survive the District of Columbia Court of Appeals decision. They sat on it for a long time, almost two years. But today, in the morning, they were earlier, they issued their ruling to find that Donald Trump can't use any type of immunity, presidential, constitutional, or otherwise, to avoid that civil liability. And right on cue, the other great judge, it sits his colleague, Judge Chutkin, finalized

her motion, citing to judge, citing to that decision to reinforce what obviously was something was already drafted this order. And what I liked about it, and it wouldn't be surprised by the way if one or both of them are not on the short list for Joe Biden for the US Supreme Court, I liked that quote a lot that you quoted and and to follow up on it later in the brief, citing just as Frank footer from 1947 on page 25 of the order. footer from 1947 on page 25 of the order, she says, if one man can be allowed to determine for himself, what is law every man can? That means first chaos and then tyranny. And she's very sensitive to the arguments that are baked into, and it's a half baked argument, all the filings by Donald Trump that he alone is above the law and gets to decide what he's going to follow. And then he then, as you said in one of your hot takes, which I love, it's just like, was this created by human beings?

Or is this like monkeys banging away in a keyboard? Like this stuff that they're filing. And she took them the task is, you want to go founding fathers? You want to go framers? You want to go federalist papers? You want to go Hamilton? Great. Let's do it. And then she dove in to all of the background about why there is not a clause in the US Constitution providing presidential immunity. There's no presidential immunity clause for very good reason. And then she talks about the founding fathers talking about tyranny and and and then says your entire argument on that one area is is on the on the related issue of is there other types of immunity, some presidential immunity or impeachment, the impeachment clause. They tried to argue in their papers, you have to go through the Senate and the house.

That's the only way a former president can be adjudicated in terms of his criminal liability and he says, what are you talking about? It doesn't say that's the only way. It says it's A way. It's usually A way when the guy is still president. I mean, even McConnell was like, well, I don't know, we're timing out here. I don't know if we're going to get a chance to try that case. And then he won't be president any longer. So everybody that everybody that knows anything about the

Constitution and decorum in the Senate knows that that is not the only way when you have an out-of-control former president. And she leans in heavily in her order, Judge Chutkin, and says, some of these concerns that you've raised, first of all, I don't think this case opens the floodgate to other cases against other presidents because as you've already conceded, you are the only ex-president or president in the history of our republic that's been indicted for felonies. So I don't really see your floodgate argument. I don't think we have to worry about that. That's one, your concerns about chilling effect, like, you know, people when their presidents

won't do certain things because they're afraid they're gonna get sued when they're no longer president. That, again, you're the only guy that's ever gotten indicted. Have you heard of sentissant cells? Also known as zombie cells? These old, worn out cells no longer serve a useful function

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50% off qualia's senolytic, and as a listener of legal AF, use code legal at checkout for an And then I liked when she said, I always like when she puts Trump in his place. First line of her order is to remind this guy to take it out of notch. This is how she describes the case. First line, the United States has charged former president Donald J. Trump with four counts of criminal conduct that he allegedly committed during the waning days of his presidency. That's the start. Let's start there. You're an indicted now former president.

And as I said at a priori, I think Ben, I knew she was going to go here. She went right to paragraph 10 of the indictment and I did it in a hot take. And every time he said in his moving papers, you're trying to get me for first amendment for public statements for tweeting, for communications I had with state officials, with communications I had with the vice president for trying to organize electors and all that. And that's just all first amendment stuff.

And she says on page two, that those generalized descriptions that his lawyers have made about the indictment, failed to properly portray the conduct with which Donald Trump has been charged. And then she spends the next five pages going to places like paragraph 10 and the indictment of all the conduct that he has charged with, right? The conduct being his, his trying to influence state legislation, state, state legislatures, to overturn the will of the people, him pressuring election officials, the phone calls in Georgia, the use of fake electors, the pressure campaign on Mike Pence,

that goes well beyond the first amendment. So she doesn't want to hear about that any longer. And then of course, she was able to use, we're talking about right up to the minute precedent, you know, hours before hot off the presses. She's got the decision of her bosses at the accordive field sits right above her that and was able to cite through that as well. What I love about this, I'll end it on this note. What I love about this is that it is so sits right above her that and was able to cite through that as well. What I love about this, I'll end it on this note. What I love about this is that it is so well written. It's such a magnificent grasp of legal analysis that's so woefully lacking in almost everything

Donald Trump, regardless of jurisdiction or lawyer set as filed. And I want people, and we'll put it up. We'll put it up on the Midas Touch website. But I want people to read what you and I grew up on and cut our teeth on in law school. This really just amazing grasp of legal principles, applied to facts in an elegant, efficient way, no nonsense. I mean, anybody can read this and really walk through the argument with her.

And she's not to be trifled with. I think she is a powerhouse rock star intellect judge that got this case by random selection, but she is made for the moment. This is a historical moment, just like the judges that presided over all the Nixon cases and all of that. She will go down in history, not because Donald Trump attacks her or her family and all of that. She will go down in history as presiding over the only case in our Republic that a president, former president has been indicted. And she's doing it, I'm sorry, he doesn't believe it, but in the end, the

MAGA doesn't believe it, but she's doing it in an even-handed, methodical way that would make any lawyer, judge, law student proud to read her opinion. It's truly a masterpiece legal document here going through all 48 pages of it, the constitutional construction, the history, going through a deep constitutional analysis on the text and the structure. It was really an impressive document. So, that's the update for now. Donald Trump's motion to dismiss, denied. We should mention here that she did what we Donald Trump's motion to dismiss, denied we should mention here,

that she did what we thought she was going to do, kind of consolidating the motions that Donald Trump brought on constitutional grounds, and Donald Trump's argument about absolute presidential immunity combining that. Now, Donald Trump has an automatic right as it relates to presidential immunity to appeal that to the DC circuit.

That's why I mentioned at the outset why the ruling by the DC circuit earlier confirming or affirming rather the ruling by Judge Amit Mehta finding that Donald Trump's conduct was campaign-conducted, fell outside of any outer perimeter conduct as well. That was for civil liability. So now when this gets appealed to the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, they're going to be armed with the analysis, the backstop, which is even under a structural analysis where the Fitzgerald V. Nixon case for civil presidential immunity applies, this conduct would be viewed as campaign conduct, and so would not fall even within the outer perimeter.

But here, as Judge Chuck and makes clear, we're dealing with criminal conduct, not civil conduct, and even those same structural principles don't even apply to absolute presidential immunity as it relates to criminal conduct. So everybody, let me mention one thing before we depart, just one second. This has got to move faster on appeal, or at least not stay what's going on here. He's going to take the appeal, just like they took the appeal in the civil case that you just described. It was okay that the court of appeal sat on it for two years

because Judge made a continue to press the case and move it towards trial, waiting to see what would happen. In other words, there was no stay in place and therefore he was able to move the case along. We just don't wanna be hung up where, there's a stay and then they take forever to rule. And we lose that March, the American people lose that March trial day. So what I hope is,

now that they've already done the heavy lifting of that recent decision from earlier today. And if he moves to stay, they deny the stay, they let the appeal run on a normal course while the trial continues in March. Or if they do do stay they put it on an expedited track whoever the three judge panel is going to be so we don't lose March because we lose March now we're losing the ability to get an upper down verdict against Donald Trump before the election. There you have it folks want to remind everybody that I had the honor to interview president Biden the mightest touch interview with President Biden is on our YouTube feed. Check for it below. Leave a comment on that as well. Hit subscribe. We're on our

way to two million subscribers. We'd love to hear your thoughts about the President Biden interview as well. We'll see you next time. Make sure you subscribe as well to the Legal AF Audio Podcast and have a great day. Hey, MidasMiddi. Love this report. Continue the conversation by following us on Instagram. At MidasTouch to keep up with the most important news of the day. What are you waiting for?

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