Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Jack Smith WRAPPING UP other Trump CRIMINAL CASES

Starting point is 00:00:00 An anti-biden Trump-appointed federal judge in Louisiana strikes again and has issued an overbroad in vague injunction stopping dozens of federal agencies and staffers from making any contact with social media companies in an effort to take misinformation and hate speech down, which apparently Republican Attorney General's urge are the things that need protecting under the First Amendment. Has the judge properly balanced competing public interests in preventing social media from promoting hate speech and terrorist coordination against legitimate First Amendment protected speech? Or is the new injunction on a fast track to being overturned as unconstitutional and encroachment

Starting point is 00:00:43 on the executive branches powers. Hail to the chief ring tones at all, Pence at Trump's behest called his old buddy, then Arizona governor, Ducey, to influence the Electoral College certification for Arizona and its 11 votes for Biden, where he won by more than 10,000 votes. Was he just checking in during a normal process as Pence now claims, or was he pressuring governors and secretary of states like Trump is caught doing on recordings to overturn the will of the people? Just how far up his neck is Pence's involvement in the coup? I mean, he's positioning himself as a hero of Jan 6, but is he? And speaking of sniveling cowards,

Starting point is 00:01:23 George Santos and his council received 80,000 pages of documents in a care package from the Department of Justice and asked if they could review it during their summer vacation. And it's update time in the Mar-a-Lago criminal case against Walton-Odda and Trump, as they share a private state date, private G-St steak date, steak, the private G steak date, sorry everybody. And now now to struggles to find his Southern District of Florida Council for tomorrow's twice postponed agreement and the federal magistrate signals he is going to unseal more of the redacted search warrant affidavits from last August so the public can see more of the basis for the search words.

Starting point is 00:02:05 All that and so much more on the midweek edition of legal AF with your regular co-anchors, Michael Popok and Karen Friedman, Agniflo, only on the Midas Touch Network. It's going to be a sizzling indictment summer, Karen, and I wouldn't want it any other way. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I woke up this morning feeling like an indictment's coming soon. I don't know. It just feels like this week, next week, something's going to be happening,

Starting point is 00:02:32 whether it's a superseding indictment in Mar-a-Lago, which you guys have been talking about, or other charges related to classified documents, perhaps in New Jersey, or whether it's January 6th. I sense that we're at that point where it's going to be very soon. Last week with we're on Saturday with Ben. I said I said I was I was tingling. We think these things happen and then Ben spent the entire rest of the podcast teasing me about my tingling. But it's good to hear that my fellow co-incurring colleague also has her spider senses and believes what we all believe, which is this is going to be a summer of multiple indicted Donald Trump, not just one. I mean, he's dying the death of a thousand paper cuts

Starting point is 00:03:15 where he's bleeding out on live television the way the indictments are coming. He has an excuse for all of them. None of them are consistent with anything he's ever said in the past or he will say in the future And that's the problem with his defense because he's shape shifting at rallies and when he's grabbing a cheese steak with Walt Nauta And when he's got a favorable audience of you know handpicked paid People for adulation purposes, but in a courtroom as you and I both know as does Ben That doesn't fly. In fact, quite the opposite. And you'll get hanged by your own words.

Starting point is 00:03:49 You know, there's a whole team. I'm sure you had one when you were the number two at the Manhattan D.A.'s office, Karen. She's just a whole team. It's just scouring social media for his comments and stringing them together and with a comparison chart, right? A timeline. This is what I would do. i'm sure they're doing it a timeline comparison chart of his comments over time

Starting point is 00:04:11 and his trial balloons you know donald trump's tribalones like the one i love about what he got caught on the recording at bedminster obviously unfurling a map and i reigning war documents to show his assembled group of bootleakers who are all laughing with him. National security, national defense information is in that grand. That's not, no, we don't have security clearances.

Starting point is 00:04:36 Bring us a coke. Who cares? You can hear what he's doing. You hear the roughly, and now he's in no, no, plans. That was building plans. That was piles of magazine articles that I have in my, I wasn't showing NDI. I would never admit to that. But that's, that is the framework that we're going to cover when we get to our segment about the updates on Mar-a-Lago. But there's been some breaking news that I think

Starting point is 00:05:01 you and I should turn to first at the top of the hour. And that is a self-selected forum shopping set of Republican attorney generals for a couple of red meat states found their judge of choice. They've got two of them. They got the guy that sits in Abilene, Texas, whenever they want to go after abortion or abortion pills or abortion drugs or anything like that. And they got Judge Dowerty, another Trump appointee, Terry Dowerty, in a little tiny parish, Louisiana, you've probably never been to or heard of, but who was just issued an injunction, a permanent injunction subject to trial against dozens of federal

Starting point is 00:05:48 agencies, of course, all executive branch, all run by Joe Biden and the people under him, you know, everything from the health and human services to the national infectious disease, to the CDC, to the FBI, to the cyber security, and infrastructure agency, and everybody in the White House that's involved with social media because the judge has found that if the allegations of the plaintiffs are true, that's a pretty big if. If they're true, it's the most massive first amendment violation attempt to squash free speech in the history of America. Those are pretty drastic words for a guy whose own appellate court, the fifth circuit, thought he had gone too far when he was ordering Jen Saki, Saki bomb to sit for a deposition

Starting point is 00:06:39 because it hadn't been made out. But, you know, he's, this is, he's going all out here. Seven page injunction. And it lists Karen a whole bunch of things that are so vague and overbroad. I don't know how they could be possibly upheld even by a Supreme Court who is hot for the First Amendment. And I mean, the, the, the Maga right wing of the court

Starting point is 00:07:04 based on a recent ruling last week. They love, they love themselves, the first amendment. And I mean the the MAGA right wing of the court based on a recent ruling last week. They love, they love themselves the first amendment. But I think this is this is gone too far because the all of the federal agencies, the entire Biden administration, the executive branch effectively is enjoying, meaning they cannot. They are prevented and precluded from contacting social media companies. That's all of them from Twitter to Facebook to YouTube, TikTok and all the rest of them. For the purposes of listening to these words, Karen, urge, encourage, pressure or induce any type of speech that is on the platform, harmful, hateful, or not, with a very limited

Starting point is 00:07:49 set of carveouts. And they're enjoined by name. I mean, they're listening, everybody from New York, whoever the current CDC director is to Joe Biden. I mean, to Joe Biden. I mean, the whole thing. And he did one carve out this judge's dowry. He said that they are allowed to go after crimes, to have criminal activity taken down, to have national security issues

Starting point is 00:08:18 that are being compromised taken down. But if it's a print in his view and he doesn't define this a protected First Amendment expression, not only his hands off, it's injunction on, don't pick up the phone, don't have the meeting, you'll be violating my injunction. And you know, the quote that we'll try to find that he says at the end that if what if if it is true, if it is true in the in the papers filed by the filed by the Republican governors, if it is true and he's founded is more likely than not, the likely to have success on the merits, which is one of the factors for an injunction is in favor of them. If that's all true, it is the greatest suppression of First Amendment rights ever, the history of our government. I don't think that's true. And I think he's not balanced properly, those competing interests. Nor the First Amendment right of the government to have a dialogue with social media about

Starting point is 00:09:27 government to have a dialogue with social media about not first amendment expression. Look, I may not like what, you know, JFK, I mean, RFK Jr has to say, but I'll support his right to say it all day long as long as it does in virgin to unprotected speech. It's not protected by the first amendment. Go drink chlorox because that will solve your COVID problem. That's not really protected. But his opinions about vaccine and the link to autism or don't, you know, all the, he's, you know, he's not a doctor, but he is the right to express his opinion and all.

Starting point is 00:09:58 And I will, like the ACLU, I will protect the right of, you know, Nazis to march down the street of a Jewish neighborhood, not because I like it, but because I think that's where the First Amendment is. But to ban Karen, the government from having a say in the public marketplace, in the town square, at the soapbox, at all, and abdicate that responsibility, and just give it over to the right wing crazies to run a muck on on the internet because that's where this goes. Talk to me about what your reaction was to it and then where do you think it goes with the fifth circuit and this particular US Supreme Court? Yeah so for me this was you know I'm still getting used to the fact that you can so blatantly form shop like this and that's what the you know know, Maga Republicans do.

Starting point is 00:10:45 You know, it's just for people who are wondering how that happens and how people can do that. Looks, remember how federal judges are assigned to a case. So how did Donald Trump get Eileen Cannon in Florida? Well, there's, you know, more than a dozen federal judges in that jurisdiction and they literally spin a wheel and at random is when you get assigned a judge. And he got lucky there. He got somebody who he appointed and who clearly sympathizes with him. Well, there are certain jurisdictions, and it depends on the size of the jurisdiction,

Starting point is 00:11:19 will depend on the number of judges. So, you know, bigger cities like New York City has two different districts, right? We have the Southern District of New York, Eastern District of New York, and each one has dozens of judges who you could get when randomly assigned when there's a case. But there are some jurisdictions, some areas that are so miniscule and small in this country, that there's only one federal judge who sits in that jurisdiction, who hears cases that come up in that area and Trump when he was president,

Starting point is 00:11:55 there were two open seats in jurisdictions such as that. As you said, the judge who in Texas who ruled on Mitha Preston, the abortion pill was one of those judges. Here is another one, another jurisdiction where there is one judge. So he was guaranteed to get a judge that he appointed in 2017 and who is clearly sympathetic to his causes and will do his bidding for him. And so he got to Republican governors to bring

Starting point is 00:12:27 a suit in this one jurisdiction, knowing they will get this judge and knowing they'll get this result. It's just this absolutely shocking to anyone who hears this. I'm sure people who are listening to this and hear this just shaking their head saying, how is that fair? How is that possible? But, you know, we have to remind people just of how that works and how how this is done and why this is done and how this is done in such bad faith. This is absolutely result driven. You are looking for your result. So you're looking for a judge who's going to give your result and lo and behold, that's

Starting point is 00:13:00 what happened here. You know, this this suit related to mostly COVID, right? So this was under the guise of that the government was too involved in working with the social media companies to limit the false information that got out there on things like vaccines and mandates and COVID, right? Because there was so much misinformation going on during that time.

Starting point is 00:13:34 And so, and that was the basis of the suit saying, you overstepped, you know, people should be able to say whatever they want, even if it's, you know, things like, you things like what you were saying about, you know, whatever, just things about the illegitimate, the illegitimacy regarding vaccines, etc. So this, you know, it was surprising to me, you know, practically half of this injunction was listing out that not only the agencies that can't have contact, right? It's also the individuals in the agencies. I mean, they named names too. I've never seen it like that, something like that. It's like,

Starting point is 00:14:18 you know, every single person, you know, it's like, with bars, the entire Department of Health and Human Services, including, you know, Michael Popak, who, you know, whatever, like they listed out many, many people in there. So this was a sweeping injunction that didn't just list out the agencies, but also listed the individuals and barred them from meeting with the social media companies for the purposes of urging removal of free speech content. That's what he said. He says, you know, this is all free speech and you can't talk to them about removing it. You can't flag

Starting point is 00:14:50 content for them. You can't urge in any matter in any manner that it gets deleted. You can't email, call text or have any communication whatsoever for the purpose of this. You can't even collaborate with certain groups for the purpose of removing them. Because in my mind, as I was reading this, I thought, oh, well, the government can just work with certain groups, third party groups, you know, like not for profits, et cetera, advocacy groups. And then they can work with the social media companies.

Starting point is 00:15:18 Nope, that can't be done either. You can't act in concert with others who are doing this. I mean, it was so specific. I think that this has significant first amendment implications. I don't know how this is going to be upheld, but of course the Republicans say this is a victory saying, you know, social media sites disproportionately take down right-leaning content and this is in collaboration or kuhuts with the government. So this judge, Terry, is it dodi, daudi, there's no r in there, but whatever, however, it's a DOU, GHTY.

Starting point is 00:15:56 He issued this injudgment, this injunction, I should say. And as you said, the government cannot talk to social media companies for the purpose of doing anything regarding free speech. It does say, however, that law enforcement, who, by the way, law enforcement works with social media companies all the time, right? We, I was involved in these efforts. We would flag child porn, we would flag human trafficking, drug dealing on the world wide web, the black market, gun sales, hate speech, terrorism, all kinds of stuff.

Starting point is 00:16:33 Of course, the government works for social media. That's absolutely what they do. So he then says, okay, well, I'm going to carve that out. It's okay to notify them about crimes, national security threats, voting suppression, any foreign attempts to influence the elections. But his ban is so subjective and so vague. He says, government can't have any contact with the social media companies related to protected free speech. Well, you know, what I feel like

Starting point is 00:17:12 it's incredibly vague, unconstitutional, so. And so I don't necessarily see this as being upheld by the Fifth Circuit. I do worry about the Supreme Court, though, you know, where it's going to go inevitably, because, you know, as we have seen, they're pretty lawless at this point. So it's hard to know what the true ramifications of this will be, but I do think it is incredibly,

Starting point is 00:17:44 incredibly subjective and vague. It doesn't give any guidance to law enforcement at all and I think people are not just law enforcement government agencies the White House everybody So I think people are gonna be scratching their heads thinking, you know, what what are we going to be? You know, how do we do this right and I just think that this is is is is gonna be overturned But I don't know, who knows? What do you think? Yeah, I think it's exactly the what's going to happen. I think it's 50, 50 at the fifth, depends on the panel, the three judge panel that they pull. I don't think they'll pull the exact same panel they got before, which who actually brushed him back this judge, thought he

Starting point is 00:18:23 had gone too far in ordering people like the people you listed, sitting for depositions. But we'll have to see what the, you know, if he gets, you know, we always joke about it being like the one R bandit in a casino, you know, if they get Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Trump, Trump, or something like that, we'll have to see what the reaction is there. But then at the Supreme Court level, who the heck knows, they were all over the map this term on First Amendment. You know, five days before they came out with 303 creative BS website designer thing,

Starting point is 00:18:58 fake website designer case in order for them to declare the First Amendment Trump's public accommodations and you're allowed to both accept money from the public and also use your case in order for them to declare the First Amendment Trump's public accommodations, and you're allowed to both accept money from the public. And also, use your First Amendment to say, I don't want to serve LGBTQ plus black's Jews or whatever, because it's against my—it's against—because I have a good faith belief that I shouldn't have to do that and be forced to use my speech, my First Amendment expression on behalf of them. shouldn't have to do that and be forced to use my speech, my first amendment expression on behalf of them.

Starting point is 00:19:28 So that's three or three creative. Five days earlier, they really limited the first amendment or about the use of it in stalking cases. So they're a little bit over the map. I don't know what this six to three, gorsuch again on first amendment probably would rule about whether this judge's particular injunction based on the record that was before him, because let's just do a little tutorial on that. Injunction is an equitable proceeding that happens before the case goes to trial at a preliminary

Starting point is 00:20:03 phase. Sometimes we call it a temporary restraining order, a temporary injunction, or a preliminary injunction, or permanent injunction until trial. They're all basically the same thing. The factor is that you have to prove for each changes a bit, and the burden of proof changes a bit.

Starting point is 00:20:21 But here, he said, oh no, on the record already established, the emails that I've seen, and the public attorney generals have supplied to me. You know, I think this is the greatest suppression by the government of First Amendment rights in the history of the world. And then he issues this seven page order. But I don't think I think there's a mismatch between what I've seen in the evidence, in the briefing, and in the eventual order. There's actually a memorandum of law that supports this order that I've reviewed. I think he's wrong, and I think his order is both overbroad. If he wants to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish, he should have done it on a narrower

Starting point is 00:21:01 set of injunctions, an narrower group of people. And this whole thing about urging, pressuring, inducing, and then the few car vows is also vague because he triggers this judge triggers a lot of his order, drives a lot of his order by saying, well, if it's protected first of them at speech, but if it's not protected first amendment speech, then you're okay.

Starting point is 00:21:27 But I mean, how do you run a government, you know, to paraphrase Casey Stangle? That's no way to run a baseball team. How are you supposed to run a government that? Well, what is protected? What is in protected? You're leaving that to me to decide before I run a foul of your injunction. So I think the injunction, the way it's written, which I don't know who did this, the judge, his clerks, if this is just a draft from the attorney generals that he just happily signed,

Starting point is 00:21:51 but we're going to have to see, it's going to go up to the Supreme's at some point, depending upon what the fifth does. You know, the Republicans are all touting it as, you know, it's a great day in America on Fourth of July, you know, that we can miss it from. What did you think about that actually? Because I was like, I had to dive into a double take because courts are closed on the Fourth of July. So, yeah, well, no, I thought they were sending a message,

Starting point is 00:22:17 right? He saved this for the Fourth of July, don't you think? Of course, of course, because I've got new orders from federal judges and weird, like on Sunday night, I'll get an order because they're open and they call their clerks and they're posted on the docket Yeah, no, that was an FU to the fight administration It's a second time we didn't talk about this judge at the top But this judge is also the one that eliminated and issued it in we're I'm just saying worldwide a

Starting point is 00:22:40 United States wide countrywide injunction against COVID vaccine being forced on early start pre-school education programs and that type of thing by the Biden administration. So he has, this judge has reveled in taking on Joe Biden and health care workers. And health care workers and right exactly. So and it starts even you had a good overview at the top of the top of the segment about well, how do we get to this judge and how did they self select this judge in effect because they had a one in one chance because he's the only judge that sits in this parish in Louisiana. He's the only federal judge and it starts even before that when Trump is looking at the map of potential appointments when he comes in, guided, and I mean, guided, I mean, the firm hand of the federalist

Starting point is 00:23:34 society directly up his, you know what, manipulating his mouth about what to do with the, I'm doing a good puppet impression here for those that watch us on YouTube, manipulating Trump's mouth about, pick this judge and put this judge here. It starts even before that. They know about the Abilene, Texas, one judge divisions. And they are very careful to make sure they get the right, super right wing, mega person there, because that's the place. That's going to be the soft underbelly

Starting point is 00:24:06 of our justice system, that they're going to exploit at the right moment. It starts before with a Federalist Society warm map about where are the one and where are the two judge venues? And where are the three judge venues? And let's try to get our people in there first, because those are the ones we're gonna go to for Nationwide in Junctions. And we're seeing the fruit of those really terrible, that terrible conduct by the Federalist Society

Starting point is 00:24:35 led by Trump, seeing it here in case it's just like this one. Karen, anything else on this particular segment before we talk a little bit about the next one? No. Yeah. Right, right. Are you taking care of that one? Carried anything else on this particular segment before we talk a little bit about the next one. No Right, right. We've taken care of taking care of that one. Well, we're gonna we're gonna talk next about Yours mine. It just upsets me when you talk about it like that. I get so agitated I just can't believe that our country works that way that you can have these single judge in a single place You know places that can have nationwide impact like it's just every time you have to ask yourself, you know, how is that possible?

Starting point is 00:25:11 How can they do a nationwide injunction on something, right? But because it's because they enjoy, you know, the president, right? The white house. The government. The government. Right. And they have another problem. We didn't really talk about separation of powers. They have a separation of powers. Probably. I'm going to ask you

Starting point is 00:25:29 about that. Yeah. Yeah. Because this is the executive branch, which within its sphere is a co-equal branch of government that's not supposed to be challenged about what it does, whether it be through social media, reg, why don't we just regulate what are what the White House press office does? Well, oh, White House press office, you can't hold press conferences either. You can't, you can't place articles, you can't collaborate because even said collaborate with anything. You can't because, but that they have their own first amendment rights and they have their own rights. I was just going to say, if you're all about the first amendment, what about their first amendment, right? What about the one where our press secretary's first amendment right to talk to

Starting point is 00:26:12 Social media companies, right? Like maybe the injunction has to be on social media companies Like maybe he can not that he should but maybe that is but how does he get to say, you know, no, right? Exactly. It's just he does it, you know know, and so the separation of powers is just for those that follow us around the world or have really thought about separation of powers in a long, long time, you know, you've got the three branches of government. They are co-equal and within their own sphere, they are, they reign supreme. And when one branch, the judiciary, tries to use the Constitution to argue that they've exceeded their powers, how could you exceed your powers talking to social media to get

Starting point is 00:26:49 your message out and gagging them while all the crazies go meet on social media and use it for terrorism and criminal things and hate crimes and everything else and misinformation and transgender attacks and that kind of thing. Well, we're going to continue to follow this on us only. I think we do, and we can on legal AF. And come it. And then the other question is, as you were saying before, as we were saying is, if like say somebody in the Biden administration says, oh, I don't think that is protected speech,

Starting point is 00:27:24 right? I don't think that's first amendment free speech. So I'm going to talk to the social media company and then somebody else is gonna come along and say, no, you were wrong. Who's gonna be the umpire for that? This, you know, it just makes no sense. The way this is written, I think it's unconstitutionally vague. I think there's a first amendment issue

Starting point is 00:27:42 that he's trying to restrict the first amendment rights of all of the individuals who he has now Injoined and I think it's also just way too subjective. So I just don't think that this I don't think this can stand the way it's written So we'll follow that closely and coming up next on We're gonna cover George Santos's appearance in court. The government telling him that he's got 80,000 pages of evidence to go through and George and his lawyer asking for the summer recess to go through all those documents. We'll do all of that next, but

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Starting point is 00:30:41 in the Eastern District of New York, which sits over places like Long Island, at the Central Ice Slip New York on Long Island, Eastern District of New York, Federal Courthouse, Karen, you've been to the Central Ice Slip Federal Courthouse? I have, it's far. It's far. It takes a while to get there.

Starting point is 00:31:01 And the judge that's sitting there, I don't think she's the only one, there's a couple there, but one of them is Joanna Sebert, Sabert. And she is a Clinton appointee, very good judge there. She's presiding over this 13 count indictment for fraud, money laundering, theft of public funds, false statements, dishonesty, unemployment fraud, and everything else, lying in the Congress, it's being led by the Eastern District of New York and main justice department of Justice out of Washington,

Starting point is 00:31:28 the Criminal Division, the Public Integrity Section. And this was the appearance, not as appearance after a rainman, but this was as check-in sort of status conference and the government revealed they have 80,000 pieces of paper that they want to turn over as part of their discovery obligations. They're Brady material obligation to this defendant.

Starting point is 00:31:51 And he seemed to be kind of nonplussed by it all. I would have been shocked by that number given the amount. Talk to our audience from the federal from a sorry, from the prosecutor standpoint. What that volume means, put it in context to me, and I've been involved with this, you know, I thought the number was quite high given the count here, but from your perspective, it may not be, give our audience a perspective of, you know, how many, what goes into a criminal investigation and why there would be such a volume of material available at the outset that has turned over to the defense.

Starting point is 00:32:28 Yeah, so when you're doing a criminal investigation, you don't necessarily know what is going to lead to charges and what's going to show criminal activity. So you cast a wide net and you start especially with someone like George Santos You know the fact that this was only a 13 count indictment was surprising to some people because his entire life his entire existence Everything he does is a lie and a fraud and potentially criminal and so I am sure when The Department of Justice the Eastern Eastern District, United States, United States Attorney's Office was doing an investigation into George Santos. They were looking, there's so much you could look for, right? There's so much you could investigate.

Starting point is 00:33:15 Every single thing on his resume, every speech he gave that talked about, things like my grandmother's a Holocaust survivor, a Jew, or the fact that he, one of the charges was that he stole money on employment benefits from people who should actually get unemployment benefits by lying about whether or not he held a certain job.

Starting point is 00:33:39 So how do you investigate that crime? Well, first you have to investigate, did he actually have a job or not? How do you do that? You, whatever he said to investigate, did he actually have a job or not? How do you do that? You, whatever he said his job, what, you know, whatever he, you know, his job was, you get his employment records, you get his bank records to see what he deposits and his paycheck and how he gets it. And, you know, there's just, there's so many documents and paperwork that you need to

Starting point is 00:34:01 get for every single thing. And you get emails, you look in their phone, and you know, look, every email could be a page, right? It's a page of discovery material. And so you have to turn that all over. And in this day and age, 80,000 documents, it is a lot, but it's not crazy numbers. I mean, we have, you know, there are cases with millions of documents or terabytes worth of discovery that needs to be gone through. And there are ways that defense attorneys go through it and prosecutors go through it. You know, there's what you do is you put it into a different discovery platform is what

Starting point is 00:34:41 they call them. It's a way to ingest the information and put it in a way that's organized. And you can do word searches, or you can many times what the government will do is they will point to the things that are going to be related to the charges directly, but defense attorneys want more. They're gonna be like, these are the documents you think

Starting point is 00:35:04 are related to it, but I'm gonna talk about all the other documents that show I'm more, right? They're going to be like, these are the documents you think are related to it, but I'm going to talk about all the other documents that show I'm innocent, right? So there's a lot they have to go through. It's not just the things that are directly related to the charges in a particular indictment. When you're a defense attorney doing, if you're a good one doing your job, you're going to look at as much of that as you possibly can because you're building your own case to show why you're innocent, right? Or if you can't do that because you build, you do what you can to poke holes in the government's case, right? If you can't legitimately assert that you are innocent or that it didn't happen or whatever, you then look at ways, you look at the weaknesses in the government's case and you again do that through all the other materials. So it's not really that the law doesn't allow the government to make a decision about what's relevant or not. That's really up to the defense attorney to decide what's relevant.

Starting point is 00:35:54 It's really anything related to a particular case, a particular charge, you know, in a particular defendant, as well as what you said Brady, which is specific things that tend to show, that tend to ex-cultate you or show that you might be innocent. Those things as well have to be turned over as part of discovery. So, you know, like 80,000, it is a lot, but it's not an crazy amount. And I think the reason they asked for not that much time to go through it, actually, they asked until September to set a motion schedule, because they really, they're acknowledging that this isn't, you know, they don't need like a year

Starting point is 00:36:36 to go through this discovery, right? And so in September, they're then going to talk about, you know, motion, you know, schedule and deadlines, trial, date, etc. The one thing I do want to point out is two things. Number one, I noticed when I was doing research for this, for our podcast, I was reading stuff on this. I saw that Santos is out there defending Trump and going after Santos, pretty hard, you know, and he's squarely putting himself in the Trump camp. And what struck me there is he knows he's going to get convicted. And I think that's he's

Starting point is 00:37:18 angling for a pardon. He's hoping that in his mind, you know, he's, um, Trump's going to win or at least has the best chance of winning, the Republican nomination, and maybe the presidency. So I want to angle for a pardon. So he's leaning hard in that. And that's part of his defense, if you will, because how do you defend an entire life, an entire lie that's, his whole life is a complete lie.

Starting point is 00:37:45 The other thing that I wanted to just point out about this particular indictment that struck me is, you know, again, there's only 13 counts. This could be George Santos could be, you know, a 200 count indictment or a 500 count indictment. I mean, the number of lies and, but not just lies, criminal lies, okay? The fraud that he perpetrated against voters, against the American public to get to Congress, the money he has stolen from individuals and then saying it's going to be for my election, but then putting it in his bank account, you know, to buy clothes or pay his rent or whatever it is. He does. This guy, you could have, this could be the

Starting point is 00:38:33 greatest criminal conspirator of all time. But what the Eastern District prosecutors decided to do was to, it was more important to bring charges against him that were streamlined, swift, certain soon, because, you know, he's a member of Congress, he is in the house, he does a lot of damage, and, you know, members of Congress, they're up for election every two years, so he's up for election again in 2024, and so they had to do this quickly. The voters need to know one way or another quickly. So they just picked 13 counts of what could be many to bring against him. And I bring this up because I think that's

Starting point is 00:39:11 what's going to happen with Jack Smith. I was listening to your bends Saturday, Saturday, legal AF. And you guys are so right that the sweeping nature of the charges that could be brought against Donald Trump regarding January 6th. I mean, it is this, you could, you could investigate this case and never stop because again, he is a one man crime spree Donald Trump. And I get I'm just more and more feeling and sensing that Jack Smith is going to bring a streamlined kind of like this George Santos 13 count

Starting point is 00:39:54 a streamlined Jan 6 case against Donald Trump and others like Mark Meadows like Rudy Giuliani. And I think it's going to be very narrow. I don't think it's going to be absolutely everything that can be brought. And I'll tell you why. Number one, I think he needs to get this case brought and he needs to get it brought before the general election. And the more limited the case,

Starting point is 00:40:22 I think the better the chance of getting that done, if it's too complicated, he will push this out until forever. Number one, number two, again, you could investigate it to death, right? It is absolutely a one-man walking criminal enterprise, and it spans multiple states. you know, it spans multiple states, you know, it spans, you know, the January 6th and the insurrection. It has to do with, you know, Mike Pence and his efforts, you know, to get him to not certify the election. I mean, I think it could be, and it could be even even broader than that, but I do think it's going to be a more streamlined the way the George Santos one is to get the case brought, to get it to get it going before the election. And again,

Starting point is 00:41:14 that's going to have massive discovery, right? Massive. I also think Jack Smith is going to want to go first before Fannie Willis, because if he doesn't, if Fannie Willis goes first, there's something called the Pettit Policy or Pettit Policy. I never know how to pronounce it in the Department of Justice, which basically says if the state's already brought something, even though they can bring it, they typically don't. And he knows Fannie Willis is bringing this case in July, slash August. So he's very aware of that. And he is not going to want to run

Starting point is 00:41:47 into the Department of Justice's own petted policy. So I don't know. I just like, that's partly why I woke up this morning thinking this is coming soon. Like I think this week or next week, and again, this is just my own spidey sense, tingly feeling, whatever, you know, it is that we have. But I think that's what's going to happen.

Starting point is 00:42:05 And the George Santos, this particular case and rereading it and seeing how they did it, I thought is exactly what Jack Smith is going to do. It's going to be limited and streamlined to a discreet. Like, I think those three discreet categories actually, I think it's going to be, you know, the attempt to steal the election through the states, the attempt to steal the election through pens and Jan 6th insurrection. I think that's, you know, it's going to be boom, boom, boom. Let's talk about pens and then we'll kind of wrap it up at the end with the overarching Mar-a-Lago and where the other indictments go. So we've got reporting, I mean, we knew it in 2020. We knew it because there was a funny moment in justice when then Governor Ducey of Arizona

Starting point is 00:42:59 was a close personal friend of Mike Pence, who had told reporters that on his cell phone, his ringtone for both Mike Pence and Donald Trump was Hail to the Chief. Don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don,

Starting point is 00:43:18 don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, don, Doug Ducey was signing the real electoral certificate in favor of Joe Biden, awarding him the 11 electoral votes for Arizona, because he'd won the state by more than 10,000 voters. It wasn't by a little, it was by, you know, a nice size. While the signing ceremony was going on at television, the ringtone can be heard at about the seven second mark in the video, with the, uh, uh, yeah, let's play it. So I'll tell you if we have it because it's funny.

Starting point is 00:43:52 We'll just get to the part where the where he turns off the phone, do see and continues to sign the, that's their difficult. And then we'll talk about Mike Pence, not being in trouble because of this. Right there. And there's the certificates. I love that. I mean, you would have thought this was a Saturday at LiveSket, but it was real. And so we knew at the time because it was reported that day by the local newspapers in

Starting point is 00:44:27 Arizona and otherwise that, to see got a phone call from the president or the vice president refused to take it, continued to sign the certificate. He went on that day to confirm that Arizona's election process was safe and secure and that he could trust the votes and all the things that you say when you're about to leave office and you're not running for anything, you tell the truth. And that's what he did. So we always knew about that. But what we didn't really know is,

Starting point is 00:44:51 there was a recording of prior phone calls before that exact one, where Donald Trump got caught calling Ducey trying to urge him, like he did in Georgia with the phone call to Brad Raffin's perger and others to have them find the 11,758 votes. He was doing the exact darn thing with Ducey trying to find 10,000 votes and pressuring him there.

Starting point is 00:45:17 And when that didn't work, knowing that Ducey and Pence had a relationship going back to and do Pence was the governor of Indiana and Doosey was the secretary of state for the state, or he was the treasurer, I forget which one, and was running for governor. Each one supported each other. When Trump picked Pence, Doosey had a big statement of support and Pence supported Do Do see what he ran for governor. So they're like buddies. So a Pence, I don't know what capacity he's trying to argue. It was while he was the president of the Senate counting the votes.

Starting point is 00:45:56 He was making phone calls, not just to this governor, but to other governors and secretary of states. And then in an interview with CBS news this past weekend, Pence tries to walk it all back and says, two extraordinary things. Hopefully we can have that clip. One is he says, things were all just normal at the White House in November and December. As the lead up to Jan 6, we know for a fact, Mike, talking to you, the lead up to Jan 6th. We know for a fact, Mike, talking to you, based on Jan 6th, committee testimony, that it was Helter Skelter and all hell was breaking loose because Donald Trump

Starting point is 00:46:32 was using the Department of Justice and private lawyers around him to cling to power and to do whatever he could, whether it was weaponized the Department of Justice and have them sent interfering letters to secretaries of state to investigate fraud that didn't exist or file 70 lawsuits that were being led by Giuliani, Jenna Ellis and Sidney Powell. Like what are you effing talking about? Well, maybe that's normal for the White House, for Trump's White House. Maybe it was normal to be a criminal crazy.

Starting point is 00:47:00 It was a public shelter. But in the same breath, he says, yeah, there are 60 lawsuits, it was really 70. There are 60 lawsuits going up, but everything was totally fine. And I was just checking in with governors. Let's play the clip. Reporting in the Washington Post, that president Trump back in 2020 after the election repeatedly asked you to call the governor of the state of Arizona, Doug Ducey, to get him to substantiate President Trump's claims, false claims of fraud. The Post is reporting you did call the Arizona governor multiple times to discuss the election.

Starting point is 00:47:36 Is that reporting accurate? And what did you tell Governor Ducey at the time? I did check in with not only Governor Ducey, but other governors in states that were going through the legal process of reviewing their election results, but there was no pressure involved. Margaret, I was calling to get an update. I passed along that information to the president, and it was no more and no less than that. You are clearly saying you did not pressure the governor, but were you being pressured by Mr. Trump to get those, to influence Doug Ducey?

Starting point is 00:48:11 And did you talk about this with the special counsel? No, I don't remember any pressure. Look, the president and I, things came to a head at the end, Margaret. I've spoken about very openly. And the president and I continue to have a strong difference. I'll always believe that by God's grace I did my duty under the Constitution that day in presiding over a joint session of Congress in the aftermath of the Mayhem and the rioting. But in the days of November and December, this was an orderly process.

Starting point is 00:48:45 You'll remember there were more than 60 lawsuits underway. States were engaging in appropriate reviews. These contexts were no more than that. Well, there. So two extraordinary things, right? Mike Pence is not tethered to reality. And yet he's trying to position himself as not only the alternative to Donald Trump, but a hero on Jan 6th,

Starting point is 00:49:08 because he did his duty constitutionally and accepted the real electors, not the phony electors, good for you man. That's a lot of balls to not be a direct participant in the coup and accept the real electoral certificates which you were supposed to do. And he said, well, you know, I might disagree with Trump on a lot of things,

Starting point is 00:49:31 but I did my duty on that day. No, you didn't, Mike, if you were making phone calls to pressure them and use your powers of friendship to try to find ways to overturn the will of the people. That's not a profile in courage, that's cowardice and treason. And what we're trying to figure out, both based on his own testimony,

Starting point is 00:49:56 is compelled testimony of the grand jury. We're trying to figure out how up to his neck Mike Pence is in the coup because I always thought he didn't do much. He wasn't on the phone calls to Georgia. At least we had thought that. He didn't make the other phone calls to the battleground states, but now we've learned that he did. So he was being used as a tool, the tool that he is by Donald Trump in order to make these phone calls to cling to power. So, Karen, you've heard the clips, Mike Pence. We know about Donald Trump's and the recordings that Donald Trump. We know that only he thought these were perfectly fine phone calls because nothing says that the other person doesn't think it's totally fine, like hitting record every time they're on the phone call

Starting point is 00:50:46 with Donald Trump. Give us your perspective about, where do you think, let's focus on Mike Pence, where do you think Mike Pence is in all of this? Look, I mean, Mike Pence, I still, you know, in the world of culpability and, you know, who's the most culpable, I still have to give Mike Pence. He still certified the election ultimately, right? He didn't succumb to the pressure not saying he's not also culpable,

Starting point is 00:51:13 but he's not Donald Trump. You know, Donald Trump is, you know, the all-'s a lesser, a lesser one. But you know, what was sort of interesting here to me was that Ducey said publicly that he was surprised that Jack's penitent reached out to him, you know, that his team hadn't reached out to him. So, you know, why is that, right? Because, you know, I guess apparently what was reported was that was, Ducey was talking to a donor and talking about how, you know, that in this donor under the condition of anonymity said that, you know, that Trump's efforts to cajole,

Starting point is 00:52:01 you know, Ducey through Pence, you know, was this pressure here, right, that he felt pressure, that Trump was getting Pence to call and tell him to find, you know, 10,000 votes or whatever it was. You know, look, I think this is going to be ultimately, potentially, I think Jack Smith could charge conspiracy. And remember how we talked about speaking indictments and how they have lots of the tell a story of what happened? I think in the conspiracy to overthrow or to basically

Starting point is 00:52:40 steal the election, I think in that conspiracy, I think part of that is going to be this trying to get the states to, you know, trying to get the states to not certify, you know, to get false slate of electors. I think that this will be these phone calls of Pence to Ducey and Trump to Ducey will be overt acts in the conspiracy. I think they will be listed that on such, you know, especially if they're recordings that on such and such a date,

Starting point is 00:53:13 a phone call was placed where there was pressure to find more votes or pressure to put in a false slate of electors or, you know, in Georgia to find 11,780 votes. I think those are all going to be listed as overt acts in the conspiracy. So I think this is really part of the story that comes in. And look, Ducey's no longer in office. Reading between the lines there is he just, Trump turned turned on Doocy called them a rhino,

Starting point is 00:53:49 and a coward and all the things that Trump does. And he just was like, that's it, I'm done. I don't wanna have anything to do with these crazy people anymore, as normal, as usual. The way Trump does with his bullying of everybody. So, it'll be interesting to see where this goes, but I would suspect that you're going, this is going to appear potentially in both Fannie Willis's Rico indictment that we know is coming, as well as in Jack Smith's January 6th indictment as Overdax in the Conspiracy. That's my prediction. Yeah, and I agree with you. I think Jack Smith is racing to get his indictment out the

Starting point is 00:54:27 door, um, related to Jan 6 and the interference grand jury before Faudi-Willis has already announced as the marker. The end of July beginning of August is when her grand jury next meets where she's literally cleared the streets of downtown Atlanta by order and request so that she can control the, you know, any kind of public outbursts or Jan 60 from happening down there. But I think you're right. I think he'll, he'll, he'll race to do that. And we'll talk about more superseding indictments, the amended indictments, new indictments that we think are coming down even related to Mara Lago, the cooperating witnesses that Jack Smith has the big problems of Walton, for the US Navy, who's been the valet and bodyman for Donald Trump, both in the White House all the way to Mar-a-Lago, and as continuing to be a conjoined twin with Donald Trump, because he's a code of fees.

Starting point is 00:55:34 He's the one of only two co-defendants right now. There's only two of them right now, more to come. I'm sure in the Mar-a-Lago criminal investigation, it will update you all about what's happening down in Mar-a-Lago, investigation or will update you all about what's happening down in Mar-a-Lago, because there are some interesting new events that we'll be able to interpret for you. But first, a final word from our sponsor. All you're gonna love this one.

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Starting point is 00:59:45 out of cheese steaks and Philly. I love that one for those that watch on YouTube. There is literally a photo taken from the other side of Pat's cheese steaks of Walten out of and Donald Trump ordering cheese steak and having their own little bromance date right after the mom's for Liberty right wing radical conference and everybody has to go on the right right wing side as to go genuflect and and kiss the tuches of that's a legal term in order for them to become the Republican nominees everybody trotted out to this group that wasn't around except for COVID of of an astro turf group that got formed in order to attack all of Joe Biden's policies

Starting point is 01:00:25 and everything else. And then, of course, they stopped for a bite at one of, I know there's millions of other places that serve Philly, Chistix, and I got, I did a hot take on it, and I got a whole bunch of, there's 30 other places, other than Pats and Genos. I'm like, that may be true, but I'm from the Jersey Shore, and I only know two. And those are the two that I know. But let's first, let's update first, right? We've got Walt Nowda, who's had like six weeks to

Starting point is 01:00:52 get a lawyer who is admitted in the federal court Southern District of Florida to stand next to his other lawyer being paid by the Save America Pack by Donald Trump, Stan Woodward because you need local counsel. We're sort of weird. I had somebody actually challenge me into my hot takes and says, you don't need a lawyer. I'm like, okay, this is my people watch Legal AF. You gotta be a member of the board

Starting point is 01:01:18 that you're practicing in front of. In this case, the federal bar and a specific federal bar. You either have to take the task like I did and become a member of the Southern District of Florida, Southern District of New York, Eastern District of this, Second Circuit, US Supreme Court. Your regular bar license to practice in a state like I'm admitted in Florida and New York doesn't get you the ticket into the courthouse to be a member of the bar, literally a member

Starting point is 01:01:44 of the bar that allows people think, what's the bar? The bar is that historic traditional piece of wood in the courtroom, and those that are a member of the bar can be in front of it closest to the judge, and those who aren't a member of the bar have to stand behind the bar. That's where that bar comes from, the well well of the courtroom and the bar that being there. So he can't find for whatever reason a Southern district Florida lawyer. There's so many of them to come forward. He's already had his arrangement postponed twice. The day the Trump was arraigned, Walt Now to didn't have a local Southern district Florida lawyer. He only had Stan Woodward who was not admitted and judges are really particular about who gets

Starting point is 01:02:29 to speak in court and you don't get to speak in court unless you're a member of the courts bar. So Stan Woodward just sat there like a dummy, couldn't say a word and the magistrate judge said, you know what, come back. Come back on the, I think it was the 27th of June and bring the right lawyer with you at that time. So they had a lot of time, three weeks.

Starting point is 01:02:51 27th of June rolls around and Walt now has another problem despite the fact that I thought he traveled on air Trump, you know, which is supposed to be better than Air Force One. Somehow he got grounded and he couldn't, it is playing God delayed or canceled because of storms. And he missed that one. Now he's got one more shot, it's tomorrow, to show up with a local Southern District Florida lawyer.

Starting point is 01:03:16 If he doesn't, everyone's like, this is a delay, he's just delaying. And in a way, I understand the position because Judge Cannon right on cue issued, we can put it up again issued an order on the 30th that said in light of the delay in Walt Nauta's arrangement, I'm going to extend the time for the defense, Nauta and Trump to respond to Jack Smith's motion to continue the trial until December, remember the judge had set an August date, and that and Jack Smith said, that's fast, judge, and we like fast, but December is probably more like it given the national security documents and other security clearances

Starting point is 01:03:59 that have to be arranged. So let's do December, which is also incredibly fast for a case like this. And so they the judge wants to defense the comment on that. And we know what the comments going to be. That's too fast. You know, this is we this needs to be after he's in office again, and maybe he gets elected president. And so there's going to be this tug of war in the court and at the hearing to judge wants full briefing, meaning both sides get to argue. and so she she's now extended the time for the defense including now to until the 10th of July, which

Starting point is 01:04:30 again, it's right around the corner to file their papers. There's been no lawyer that's appeared. He can now that lawyer can appear tomorrow on the record for the arrangement of Walt Nauta, but if he's not there, then in Karen, you and I were speculating about this. I think they just reach into the pool of federal public defenders whose offices are right there and they go, Hey, you public defender come in here, stand next to Mr. Woodward. You're now Mr. Nowdo as a lawyer for the arrangement. And for the responding to judge,

Starting point is 01:05:06 cannons, July 10th deadline to file the brief, they're not gonna delay it again. Or they're gonna put them in the federal detention center. Like I let you out a month ago, I don't know which magistrate's gonna be, we're gonna find out who the duty, we can probably look up online, who the duty magistrate is gonna be for Thursdays in Miami.

Starting point is 01:05:26 And whoever that is, maybe when you're giving your commentary, Karen, I'll look it up. But it's that magistrate and they're going to go, no, I'm sorry, I wanted you. Hope you brought a toothbrush because you're going to the federal detention center across the street. And we'll hold you there until you get a lawyer because we've given you enough opportunities. That's that. I agree with you and then I'll turn it back to you, Karen, that the superseding indictment, Rudy Giuliani's getting indicted. He gave a proffer.

Starting point is 01:05:52 Nobody thinks it was good enough. The reporting is they were like, okay, great. We'll give you the queen for the day. We'll give you the immunity for the day. But I think he gets indicted. John Eastman certainly gets indicted in an indictment. Meadows has given a proffer. Christina Bob has given a proffer about Mar-a-Lago.

Starting point is 01:06:11 Evan Corcoran has given a testimony against Donald Trump in Mar-a-Lago. So I think you see the new Mar-a-Lago, which is gonna have more counts and more evidence in it. And then you've got these other ones that are gonna come out as new indictments in these other places, maybe in Florida, maybe in New Jersey, maybe in Washington, DC, all the indictments don't have to be in the same place. They have to be cited and put

Starting point is 01:06:35 where it is appropriate given the crimes that were committed and all of that. So why don't you take that forward and give your sort of former prosecutor point of view on how to hold that? Yeah, so I think if I, if putting my Jack Smith hat on, I think what I'd be thinking of right now is, do I supersede this indictment at all? Because, you know, on the one hand, if there are some crushing charges that I want to bring, like rock solid, no matter who the juror is, charges that I want to bring, rock solid no matter who the juror is, charges that I want to bring. I would supersede, it's very easy to supersede federally because you can just

Starting point is 01:07:10 read in the prior indictment or you bring an FBI agent into summarize the prior testimony. You don't necessarily, here say it's allowed in a federal grand jury and then you add the other charges to it. I would be careful though if I was Jack Smith to add any charges to this indictment because that just again gives Trump an opportunity to say, oh, now there's new charges. I need more time. Looks delay. This is different.

Starting point is 01:07:34 I thought I could have done the other case sooner because it was only a certain number of charges. But if you added these other charges or if you add other defendants, right, you'll have too many lawyers who have conflicts or too many lawyers who also want an opportunity to be able to make motions or who needs security clearances, etc. So I don't know whether it makes sense for Jack Smith to supersede the indictment and bring more defendants or more charges,

Starting point is 01:08:05 especially because you've got Judge Eileen Cannon who I think is a terrible draw for a judge for the Department of Justice. So if I were Jack Smith, I mean, like it's possible because you also can't really form shop or jurisdiction shop or venue shop as a government. You have to, where the crime happened, you kind of have to bring the charges there. And since Mar-a-Law goes in Florida, I think it made sense that he brought the case there. But if I were him, I would probably say, okay, I've got a pretty solid case, it's a streamlined case, it looks like I have a court date that I can, you know, that will happen. I want

Starting point is 01:08:45 to trial before the election. I might actually just leave it, or if I'm superseding it, make it very limited so that he can't make the arguments to delay things significantly. But I would be doing is bringing other charges and other jurisdictions. So I think there are some charges that could be brought in New Jersey, for example, right? Because of the bed, we know all about bedminster now, and if the witnesses can sufficiently talk about the documents, or maybe those documents exist, or that we can prove that he possessed national defense information and was showing it, maybe that he possessed national defense information and was showing it, maybe that he was disseminating it, distributing it.

Starting point is 01:09:30 There's other charges that could be brought in New Jersey. I think if I were Jack Smith, I'd be looking to do that. So hopefully get a better judge that's more even, more fair. Eileen Cannon is not necessarily that. So I would try to do that. I think there's some potential DC charges as well, especially related to the election,

Starting point is 01:09:50 Jansix, the insurrection, et cetera. So that's what I think is happening. I do agree with you that Walt Natta, you know, any other judge who will see what I lean canon does, but any other federal judge would never allow him to just postpone his ar for a third time as we discussed earlier before the podcast. They would either they'd either appoint a federal defender, which is what I think they will do if he does not have a lawyer or they'll put him in.

Starting point is 01:10:17 Because any federal judge would see that this is you know, everyone knows that Donald Trump has to be the one to approve of Walt Naude's attorney. He's hiring. And if I'm Trump, I don't want to hire an attorney because that will just make the process go forward because I want delay. It's all about delay for him. Maybe, of course, there are lawyers who'd be willing to represent Walt Naude, but are they ones that are acceptable to Donald Trump? We know he's paying for it, right?

Starting point is 01:10:46 So, you know, to me, it's a delay tactic by Donald Trump through NADA, but we'll see if Eileen Cannon sees that. We'll see if she holds them to account. But he absolutely needs to be arraigned. This process has to go forward, and we'll see what happens. Well, it should be a magistrate. It shouldn't be canon. The magistrate's been doing all the arraignment.

Starting point is 01:11:07 I just looked it up. The one for today, the duty judge for today, is literally just a reminder, everybody. In federal court, there is a magistrate that's assigned to the case. In this case, it's Judge Reinhart. He's the one that's also just has is deciding, and we'll just round it out here. Judge Ryan Tire is the

Starting point is 01:11:26 permanent magistrate that handles many many things in lieu of the judge, the Article III trial judge, in this case judge can and magistrate judge's handle discovery issues, search warrant issues, sometimes motions to suppress evidence, it just depends on what the judges has given them, has allocated to them. And in the case of Judge Reinhardt, he's told the Department of Justice that he's inclined to unseal meaning take the redaction tape, the black tape off of the more of the affidavits that were used, including of confidential informants and other witnesses to support him, Reinhard, having issued the search warrant because he's the search warrant judge back in August of last year that started this whole thing off at Mar-a-Lago.

Starting point is 01:12:15 We've already seen about three or four months after that a redacted version with a heavy black tape everywhere you just want, you know, you're, you're ready to grab the popcorn. Uh, and then Donald Trump gave the instruction to, uh, to do a, you're like crap. That's the part I wanted. And so the judges, like the magistrate judges have to balance because there's three parties in our justice system, especially when it comes to the criminal justice system, that are important and have a seat at the table. One is the prosecution, in this case, the United, they get to announce themselves

Starting point is 01:12:54 as the United States of America, Karen announces herself as the people of the state of New York. They get to do that. Second is the defense, and the third is the public. That's what one of the things that distinguishes our system of justice from some other systems of justice, especially in totalitarian regimes, is that we do everything in the public. We seal very little. It may be initially sealed, but ultimately, it'll be unsealed. We close very few doors. We may not televised it. We may not, but transcripts

Starting point is 01:13:26 will come out. People will be allowed up to capacity to be in the courtroom. We don't do private secret trials, right? We don't do star chambers. And so there's this balance that the judges have to have to have. And then the media helps also because they have a seat at the table on behalf of the public. They want everything public. You know, they don't care who's who's jeopardized by the in the investigation by having the names leaked out. And now, you know, the judges looking at the Department of Justice and saying, your nine months, ten months from when you first filed, you understand that the public has a seat at this table and it's entitled to know what your evidence was. So unless you've got a national security reason 10 months later and or a reason and I've already, you know, there's already orders issued about Donald Trump,

Starting point is 01:14:17 Donald Trump's conditions for a rainment release in turn including special conditions of not contacting what looks to be 84 witnesses and we're still waiting to see what the Department of Justice does with their Either they're going to file a renewed motion To have the court accept under seal also confidential Public private for a while there are 84 list of witnesses or they're going to take Eileen cannonsyn's direction

Starting point is 01:14:45 at its word and she started it two weeks ago with why are you even filing that? Just send that to the other side. If you got an issue, bring it back to me and say number 16 was violated. Then we can talk about in camera at that time. We haven't heard from, we haven't heard from the Department of Justice. They haven't refiled. My guess is that they just sent it to the other side and says, here's the list of 84.

Starting point is 01:15:07 If you've got a problem, we can bring it to the judge then. But that is that balancing act. So I think Reinhardt has given the Department of Justice additional time to comment about or appeal whether they're going to be okay with ripping off the black tape and releasing a lot more information to the public that will get into the public domain and we'll be talking about it here on Legal AF about the basis and the confidential informants and the witnesses and the audio tapes and the evidence that's out there. And so we have that. Then you have, that's the Magistrate Reinhardt. Then for a rainment, you have whoever's on duty that day. Some people think, wow, it adjusts the system like the United States.

Starting point is 01:15:51 It's just he was assigned that day. Yes. Magistrate Goodman, a rain Donald Trump because it was Tuesday. And it was Judge Goodman's day for any, who we got here for a rainment. Oh, former president of the United States, bring him up. I mean, that's how what? I mean, he knew the day before that he was going to be the judge, but the magistrate judge. Now, tomorrow, I don't know because it's not yet up on the docket, who the duty judges on Thursdays and Miami, but that's who's going to be doing the arrangement. Now, they have the full file in front of them and they have the docket in front of them, the electronic docket of entries.

Starting point is 01:16:25 So they know what's transpired. They know that I missed the boat, missed the plane last week. And the reason what we're talking about, because sometimes we talk in such crypt, sometimes in shorthand, because we do so many hot takes, and then we have two shows a week,

Starting point is 01:16:40 we have to remember some people are new to the show, and aren't following it, of course, as closely as we are. So we're doing our job here. The, the arrangement is the official process by which someone once arrested as part of the indictment is released under conditions back into general population, back into the public. Walt Nauta didn't go through that process. He was arrested, but he wasn't a rain. He's in a weird twilight where they let him out, subject to a future of a rainment

Starting point is 01:17:17 where conditions for his release will be set. Sounds like it's asked backwards, and it is a little bit, and some people might be saying, is that really unusual? Aren't they getting special treatment? And the answer to that is yes, to both a normal, everyday garden variety criminal, or one, I like the phrase you used today, Karen,

Starting point is 01:17:35 one who's just a one man crime-spree, would not be able to get this. They'd be sent to the Federal Detention Center, the FDC in downtown Miami, or the one in West Palm Beach, or the one in Fort Lauderdale, to go sit in the clink and see their lawyers only, you know, in the kitchen area with vending machines, I've been there for clients and discuss their case, wearing, you know, I think in Florida, it's not orange in the federal. I think it's tan. Where it gets tan jumpsuit. So that didn't happen for a walk nowadays. He's been given quite a lot of slack,

Starting point is 01:18:13 but I agree with you. He doesn't show up tomorrow, tries to delay things one more time. Whoever that duty judges tomorrow, match straight judge, is going to say, you got a choice. You can go spend the night or beyond the federal detention center, or you can go pick a federal public defender, but you're getting a rain today. And I want to hear from the government about special conditions and conditions of release for Mr. Nauta. Now with Trump, just to bring it full circle with my cheese steak, because I did a sub reference to cheese steaks. And people are probably thinking Popeyes, either really hungry, Because what is the link between Trump, now, to the G stakes and this podcast?

Starting point is 01:18:48 I'm gonna do it right here. If you give me long enough on this podcast with Karen, I will tie it up. Here we go. When Judge Goodman did a special condition when he, when he arranged Trump, not now, to, he said, well, the government hasn't asked for this, but I'm going to impose a limitation.

Starting point is 01:19:05 Trump is not to talk about the case to anyone on a list that the government is going to prepare of witnesses or potential witnesses in the case. And that includes, of course, number one, co-defendant Walton, now to... Now, the Magistrate Judge recognized and Todd Blanche, the lawyer for Donald Trump. And the lawyers for Donald Trump were like all over Walt Nowda in that arrangement of Donald Trump. You can just talk about a pressure campaign. I mean, the lawyer for Donald Trump was like for Walt Nowda was like sideline and it was

Starting point is 01:19:41 just like, it was like Chris Kice and Todd Todd Blanch, just on top of Nauta. Like, okay, like if you don't think he's got influence over the guy through the purse string because he's paying for his lawyer, or because his lawyers are beating the guy up, he is. And so Goodman said, I get it. You're, some of you are still working together. Like your butler there, your valet,

Starting point is 01:20:01 former petty officer, Nauta, and you, but don't talk about the case or that violates my order. So what are these two idiots to? Donald Trump gets Walt now to alone over a cheese steak and Philly and goes sits by himself. Now what do we think he's talking about? How great the speech was at the moms for Liberty Rally? Or or they actually also sliding into conversations about his testimony, his lawyer who he's about to pick and all the things that good men, as special conditions said, he couldn't talk about. That's up for the prosecutors to decide whether they're going to make a federal case out

Starting point is 01:20:40 of it, make a big deal out of it and bring it up and do a filing with the court and saying, hey, we're okay with the guy working together, but do they have to have a date, a cheesecake date? And so we got that going on. And cameras are everywhere, cell phones are everywhere, including at the kitchen, a pat LeFrait is, or pat's, uh, cheese steaks in Philadelphia. So that's what's happened, that's what's going to happen. We'll report tomorrow, one of us will do a hot take. All of us will do a take on what happens. We'll walk now to tomorrow. And the next big date on the calendar,

Starting point is 01:21:10 subject to the to part Jack Smith filing something about the 84 witness list being sealed or not, or he's maybe he's handled a different way. We'll be July 10th when the defense, including we hope Nauta, gives the judge their position on whether the December trial date works. Newsflash, they're going to say it doesn't, and they want a much further kick the can as far away as possible. Time is their friend. It's not a friend to justice because justice delayed is justice tonight. Karen, that's what I got on now to cheese steaks, Donald Trump, my tingly feeling, super seating indictments, future indictments. Last word for you on all things, Donald Trump and Mar-a-Laga. So salty just sent us Donald Trump's latest fake tweet where it's just really sad and disgraceful. You know, he goes on and on about the cocaine

Starting point is 01:22:07 at the White House, etc. And Joe and Hunter Biden. And then he goes, but this last sentence is just really, it's upsetting. He says, has, has deranged Jack Smith, the crazy Trump hating special prosecutor been seen in the area of cocaine. He looks like a crackhead to me. I mean, I just, you know, that's just offensive. And I just can't believe this man is running for president that he was president. You know, he just resorts to name calling to, you know, false accusations, you know, and now his followers

Starting point is 01:22:43 are going to talk about an amazing person, Jack Smith, who's a respected lawyer and prosecutor, and who really is, you know, is a public servant, who has been a public servant, his entire career, he's a good person. And you've got a former president of the United States calling him a crackhead or saying he looks like a crackhead. It's just really just really upsetting and to use a Ben word, it's really just pickable actually. So I just can't get over it. I can't believe it. That this is what he does. But anyway, my last final word is enjoy the Yankee game tonight. Oh, I'm going to get, I'm going to get flamed. I'm going to get flamed in the chat.

Starting point is 01:23:28 We're in New York. So what are they going to do? You can go to a Yankee game. So enjoy the game. Don't worry. We'll all be in live chat tonight. Now we've reached the end of another midweek edition of legal AF with your regular co-anchors.

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Starting point is 01:24:07 And we're doing it just like this. We just do it solo. Sometimes we join together on something very interesting. You've done a couple of Ben, I've done it with Ben, I've done it with you. And the three of us have done them together on cutting edge, breaking news stories at that intersection of law and politics. So it was politically charged litigation matters that we bring to you only on the Midest touch network on legal AF. People ask how can we help? How can we help support?

Starting point is 01:24:33 We like the content. What do we do about it? Well, it's easy. Everything's free. Just subscribe free to the Midest Touch network on the channel. When we drop the audio of this, because we're doing it now on YouTube, and the last, I don't know, six months, we've been either the first, second, or third, most watch YouTube live, because there's other lives to show. In the world, last week we were number one.

Starting point is 01:25:02 We had 17,000 people watch us at one point, and that's heartening, but that's not us. That's not on us. That's you. You're the change you've been waiting for. Not us. We're just content providers, but we can't do it without a really supportive audience. That's one way to support us. Go listen to us on the audio.

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Starting point is 01:25:56 There it is, that long sleeve shirt, short sleeve shirt, coffee mugs, all with the legal AF logo on it at store. .mitistouch.com. These are the ways that you can help us that we just are so pleased to have the Midas mighty and the legal AFers join us week after week. We're two and a half years into doing this. We're over 250 combined episodes. That's not including hot takes and all of that. And literally could not do it without you. We thank you from the bottom of our heart. and literally could not do it without you. We thank you from the bottom of our heart.

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Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Jack Smith WRAPPING UP other Trump CRIMINAL CASES

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