Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Judge SHUTS DOWN Trump’s Lawyers TO THEIR FACES in Court

Episode Date: November 1, 2023

Judge Engoron has already signaled in just the  fifth week of the Fraud trial against Donald Trump that he’s about ready to rule and it’s likely against Trump on the issue of him losing hundreds of millions of dollars and his buildings. Michael Popok of Legal AF reports on comments made today in which Judge Engoron schooled Donald Trump’s out of state lawyers, once again, on the unique NY statute being used in the case that allows the court to rip away all ill-gotten gains and monies and properties from Trump, if the New York Attorney General proves her case. Get up to 50% off for a limited time when you go to https://shopbeam.com/LEGALAF and use code CYBER at checkout! Visit https://meidastouch.com for more! Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Michael Popak, legal AF. When your judge in a fraud case who sat through five weeks of testimony, like judge Engoron, presiding over the fraud case against Donald Trump, says to lawyers today in the courtroom, two things, your arguments sound like you're whistling past a graveyard. And I've explained this to you ad nauseam. You know, you're not doing well in your trial. Take it from me. A 30 to your trial lawyer in Manhattan court me, a 32 year trial lawyer in Manhattan

courtrooms, just like the one I'm going to talk about. This was another terrible day for the Trump defense team today led by Christopher Kice. Christopher Kice made the argument for the umpteenth time since he's been involved with this case that the statute that the New York Attorney General, Latisha James, is using to go after Donald Trump, a very unique statute called Executive Law 63-12. If you practice in New York, Chris, because he's a Florida lawyer, I get it. I practice in Florida too, but you'd know that there are two really powerful statutory remedies and laws on the books that are unique to the New York Attorney General that other

Attorney Generals don't even have. Certainly not the one in Florida. One of them is 63-12, persistent fraud and going after fraudulent companies and shutting them down and taking their money and taking any money they made off of fraudulent activity through discouragement. And the second one is called the Martin Act. Again, unique. It has to do more with usually securities transactions, not applicable here. But with those two barbells, the attorney general of New York is really, really muscular and robust in their ability to go after fraud in the operation of businesses in New York,

which is what you would expect from the city that is the home to the economic capital of the world and Wall Street. Okay, what happened today? Why am I so excited? I'm so excited because once again, Chris Keiss and the lawyers there don't know New York law. And it becomes evident and it's it's maddening and frustrating to judge Angkoran and the New York Attorney General who do know New York law to have arguments that were settled that have been settled law since the New York Attorney General got these powers in 1956. Okay, this is not a new statute. I know people are writing. I'm seeing all sorts of things on the internet. This is a terrible statute for business and what the judge is doing. This statute's been on the books since 1956. Okay, it's like 40 years before I became a lawyer.

That's how long you know, and you learn it in your bar class when you're studying for the New York bar, you learn about these powers. And so the power that I'm talking about is the power of the judge having found intentional fraud, intentional fraud, or fraud in the operation of a business to use what's called discouragement as a remedy, as part of restitution. What is discouragement, Pope pocket, to the point? Okay, here we go. Damages as money that are paid or awarded by a jury or a judge, the compensate for injuries, economic injuries, physical injuries,

breach of contract injuries or damages, that type of thing. Discouragement is different. It is reaching in and clawing back money that somebody obtained through fraudulent means. And whatever the amount they obtained, that's the amount that has to go back, generally, to the victims, which are the people here of the state of New York. And we'll go back to the general treasury of New York.

So what is the discouragement fight in the Trump case? It is that he based on fraudulent statements of financial condition, personal balance sheets that he signed and certified were true, but that were cooked were hyperinflated were artificially inflated. Numbers were changed in order to do something not so he could just look at them like, oh, they were from my personal UC one said, I'll just look at them. No, he didn't just look at them. He Eric, Don Jr., Ivanka, Alan Weissselberg, Michael Cohen, and everybody else that worked

on the finance side of the operational side of Trump organization used Donald Trump's net worth statement of financial condition to, to obtain things, obtain deals like the old post office, uh, lease being awarded to them in Washington to obtain bank loans at a certain value and at a certain interest rate to enter to obtain insurance. Same thing. To obtain surety bonds used to finish and complete construction all based on the fraudulent underpinnings of this financial statement. Therefore, the discouragement would be the amount of ill-gotten gains.

That's what it's called in the term of art in our field. Ill-gotten gains is sort of what it sounds like. You'll wear it supposed to make that money, but you made it on the back of a fraud. And then you calculate how much you would, you know, so the bank wouldn't have loaned you that money. So all the money that you obtained by the bank from the bank, even if you paid it back, is a measure of ill-gotten gains. The insurance that you wouldn't have gotten had you told the truth. The building that you wouldn't have been given in a lease or a transaction, all of that is calculated. And that's the testimony that was going on today in week five of the trial of an expert

witness retained by the Office of Attorney General to calculate what would be the Discouragement amount. It's not just simple math because you've got to look at the value, you've got to make decisions about how much of that he would not have been entitled to you back that out. And then you're left at the end with a pile of ill-gotten gains. And that's your number. I don't know if it's the $250 million dollar number that Latisha James said at the time she filed the case, or if based on the evidence now produced and adduced and proven, whether it's a much higher number, it could be multiples of that, plus interest at a very high interest rate.

This could easily be a half a billion dollar, uh, discouragement case. The lawyers for Donald Trump hate that. They don't understand 63-12 and its powers that are given to the attorney general, which include restitution, fines, damages and the like. They don't understand the power of the judge to support and award remedies under 63-12. And the thing that's the most galling, I'm sure to the judge is that the settled case law, the settled precedent in this area of discouragement and the ability to do it comes from a case involving

Donald Trump, what we call a reported decision, meaning it's in a book. It's online. You can find it. It's what we call precedent. It has presidential value with a C. And it's the case of Schneiderman versus Trump University, and I had another name, but it's basically Trump University, which was shut down by the then attorney general, Eric Schneiderman under 63-12,

in which he also sought, discouragement, and the Appellate Division First Department, which is the first level appellate court, that sits over the trial court in Manhattan, agreed and basically blessed the ability of the New York Attorney General to use this. Scouragement. Did you know that poor sleep can cause weight gain, mood issues, poor mental health, and lower productivity? Sleep is the foundation of our mental and physical health and performance in our days.

Having a consistent nighttime routine is non-negotiable. When I don't get enough sleep, trust me. You don't want to be around me the next day, introducing Beam Dream. You know we've been raving about Beam's Dream Powder. They're healthy Haku Koko for sleep. And today, our listeners get a special discount on Beams Dream Powder. They're best-selling Haku Koko for sleep with no added sugar. Now available in delicious flavors like sea salt caramel, cinnamon cocoa, and chocolate peanut butter. Better sleep has never tasted better.

Dream contains a powerful all-natural blend of Rishi, Magnesium, Elfionine, Melatonin, and Nano CBD to help you fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up refreshed. A recent clinical study revealed, Dream helped 93% of users wake up feeling more refreshed, and 93% reported that Dream helped them get a more restful night sleep. Just mix being dream into hot water or milk, stir or froth and enjoy before bedtime. I've personally tried bean dream and it lived up to the hype. First off, it was delicious, and just a lovely night time routine, and secondly and most importantly, it helped me fall asleep and stay asleep.

The next day I woke up ready and eager to take on all of life's challenges and tasks. Find out why Forbes and The New York Times are all talking about beam and why it's trusted by the world's top athletes and business professionals. If you want to try beam's best selling dream powder, take advantage of their biggest sale of the year and get up to 50% off for a limited time when you go to shopbeam.com, slash legal AF, and use code cyber at checkout, that shopbeam.com, slash legal AF, and use code cyber for up to 50% off. It has been used for the last 50 years or 60 years, but Chris Kais, it's like the first time he ever heard of it.

And it's pissing the judge off. I mean, it reminds me of that old Saturday night life skit with John Belushi, where John Belushi is on a talk show and he's in college. And this is like the mid 1970s. And they start talking about the first time they ever heard that men landed on the moon. And everybody's talking about where they were in the 60s when the men landed on the moon. And he starts talking about he was in the cafeteria talking to his buddies in in college and they're like, wait, stop. When was that? He said, I don't know, like 18 months ago, he says,

you just learned 15 years after the moon landing that this happened. He goes, yeah, I don't know where I was before. This is like Chris Keiss. I'm sorry that Chris Keiss didn't study for the New York bar. I'm sorry that he's a Florida lawyer. I'm a Florida lawyer too, but he doesn't understand the laws here. And he has, the only person next to him he can turn to, right? In the courtroom is Alina Habba. And Alina Habba is not a New York lawyer either, even though she likes to play one on television.

And she has a rented space and some we work rental space that she claims is her office. But if you look online, it's a Regency Office rental. She practices a new Jersey, which doesn't have 63-12 on the books, neither does Florida. And the judges get pissed off when the judge uses a New Yorkism that comes from like my grandfather's period, which is you sound like you're whistling in or past the graveyard. That means you know you're about

to lose and you're whistling because you're scared. And so you're acting like you're not scared by whistling past the graveyard. I go, oh my god, that graveyard and all, this is grises great for a Halloween hot take. You're walking by, oh, the ghost and goblins and they're at all the dead people, they don't bother me when you start whistling. That's whistling past the graveyard and that indicates where the judge's mind is at right now. The judge's mind is at where it was a few days ago.

When he said in response to an attempt by the lawyers for Donald Trump to move for directed verdict before the prosecutors, the New York Attorney General's cases even over. She's still in the middle of presenting it. Directed verdict. What's the grounds, the judge said, oh Michael Cohen, Michael Cohen, they said, all right, when Michael Cohen testified, he's not the only witness here. And there is, and the judge used his hands and pointed around his courtroom and said, there's enough evidence to fill this courtroom on the fraud case. I don't need necessarily Michael Cohen's testimony. And they were like, and they sat down and they moved on.

But that's where the head judges had was that last week. This week, he says to them, you're whistling past the graveyard on the issue of discouragement because you know it's coming. You know me as the judge. I'm bringing it to you and you're really worried about it. And you're acting like I don't have that power. You know, so Chris Kai, sort of like my cousin, Vinnie, should go look it up. You know, he should get somebody to help him and he should go study

because he's getting very close to my cousin Vinnie where he just doesn't know New York law and he can't cram it into his head fast enough to do hand-to-hand combat with Judge Engoron where he's going to lose that fight. So that's what we have so far. The judge basically just saying out loud again that there are, and Chris Kies is major argument just to leave it on this was your honor. For instance, don't you bank a main lender for the Trump organization testified that he didn't even look at the statement of financial conditions. And therefore, he just considered Trump to

be a good credit risk. And he gave him the money. And the judge said two things. One, I've told you before, Mr. Kice under 63-12, materiality, reliance, all of that doesn't matter. All I got to do here on what I'm, I'm adjudicating as the trial of fact, because there's no jury, is whether there was intentional fraud in the insurance documents, the financial statements, the books and records of the Trump organization. Yes or no, because the judge already decided there was already persistent fraud under 63-12, which does not require intent in New York. You can accidentally commit persistent fraud, is what I'm trying to say. But for the rest of the case, the only difference is you have to show intentional fraud of these six remaining counts. And why is it important? Because

the, the people of the state of New York through the Office of Attorney General are trying to put on enough evidence so that they get all of the remedies they're looking for. They've gotten some, but not all. And what's the all just to remind everybody? They want the business certificates of the Trump organization entities canceled. They want the companies dissolved. They want the assets, uh, uh, uh, marshaled by a receiver and a monitor and sold and liquidated, including all of those buildings. They want Donald Trump removed as a trustee of his own trust. They want a permanent ban on Donald Trump and Alan Weiselberg from ever being an officer

director of a New York corporation. Again, they want a similar ban on the kids, Ivanka, Eric, and Don Jr., right? They want all of this and the big Discouragement number. And when the judge put it to the, when he granted their summary judgment for the people of the state of New York, and he said to them five weeks ago, do we really need a trial? Can I just get to the other remedies that you're looking for and award them and decide on them? And they said because they're trying to make a proper appellate record, appeal record, the New York Attorney General said, judge, we think we have to put on all the rest of the remaining

six fraud counts with intent and all the evidence that goes with them. So you have a full record about the, um, the remedies that we're seeking. And Judge said, okay, that sounds right. Let's have a trial. And that's why we're in week five of a trial with already a dozen witnesses, And that's why we're in week five of a trial with already a dozen witnesses, thousands of pages of documents brought into evidence. And now the specter of, you know, what I call tick, tick, tick, boom, which is the kids testifying and Donald Trump testifying.

And then that really, you know, she probably, the attorney general probably has, I don't know, another week or two. And then she's going to turn this case over to the Trump organization, defense lawyers. Good luck. And then they're going to spend probably, I don't know, another month trying their defense out and recalling some of these same witnesses, like Donald Trump, Alan Weisselberg, the disgraced, convicted felon, chief financial officer, Jeff McConney, who cut a deal for immunity,

who used to be the controller of the organization. And then he's going to recall all these witnesses. Does anybody out there think the judge has an already made up his mind about this case, given the whistling past the graveyard? There is your making arguments, add nauseam. There is a room full of evidence against you. There are witnesses that have testified, Mr. Kice, who have said they relied on the fraudulent financial statements and that they wouldn't have done a certain transaction without them.

Does anybody think he's not already have written a majority of his written order and opinion? And it's sitting in his drafts inside of his computer. Who doesn't believe that? I'm telling you that order is written. He'll, yeah, it'll be tweaked, it'll be added to, but he's already got that draft written and it's just, he's just waiting for them to shut up and sit down. All the lawyers and be done with this case and hit print and send on his computer. That's what he's waiting for.

We'll follow it right here on the Midas Touch Network, one place exclusively every day, not just Halloween, hot hot takes just like this one. I do hot takes. I don't know. It seems like eight times a day at At the intersection of law, politics, and justice, we then pull it all together with my two co-anchors. So if you like hot takes, me talking to you, wait till you see me debate and stuff with my co-anchors,

Karen Friedman, I can't follow. She's a prosecutor, I'm a defense lawyer, we do that whole thing. And then Ben, my cellist, civil rights lawyer, and litigator, and we do that on Saturdays at 8 p.m., Wednesdays at 8 p.m. Eastern time, only on the Midas Touch YouTube channel. We get 30, 40,000 people watching us just do the recording.

And then we end up top 50 in the world in news related to that. And find out why if you haven't already joined us tune in to legal a F. Yes, the title is what you think that until until the next hot take. Until my next legal AF. This is Michael Popock, Halloween night reporting. Hey, Midas, Mighty. Love this report. Continue the conversation by following us on Instagram. At Midas Touch to keep up with the most important news of the day. What are you waiting for? Follow us now. What are you waiting for? Follow us now.