Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Legal AF - 2/26/2026

Episode Date: February 26, 2026

Popok and KFA on the Legal AF pod break news from the State of the Union, Florida, DC, and the Supreme Court, and so much more. Support Our Sponsors: Armra: Head to https://tryarmra.com/legalaf or enter promo code: LEGALAF to receive 15% off your first order! Delete Me: Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to join https://deleteme.com/LEGALAF and use promo code LEGALAF at checkout. Trust and Will: Get 20% off plus free shipping of your estate plan documents by visiting https://trustandwill.com/legalaf Nobl: Don’t miss NOBL’s biggest Sale of the Year! Head to https://NOBLTravel.com for up to 62% off your entire order! #NOBL #ad Soul: Go to https://GetSoul.com and use code LEGALAF to get 30% OFF your order! Become a member of Legal AF YouTube community: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJgZJZZbnLFPr5GJdCuIwpA/join Learn more about the Popok Firm: https://thepopokfirm.com Subscribe to Legal AF Substack: https://michaelpopok.substack.com/subscribe?coupon=c0fc8f5c Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast Cult Conversations: The Influence Continuum with Dr. Steve Hassan: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's never too early to plan your summer story in Europe with WestJet, from rolling countryside to cobblestone streets. Begin your next chapter. Book your seat at westjet.com or call your travel agent. WestJet, where your story takes off. You're on legal A.F. Oh, is the State of the Union speech over? Is that still going on?

It's still going on. It's still going on. They should have renamed it, not we call it internally. So too. It should have been STFU. I mean, I mean, I get, da dun, dunce. The long, I don't think it's a badge of honor to have the longest state of the union address ever. I was sort of hoping he would do it outside and catch his death of cold. No, that didn't happen.

He decided he was, it was such a, an S show, you know, yelling and screaming at people. Half the Supreme Court, most of MAGA decided to say. stay home. You know, the highlight was him calling out the Olympic hockey team. And then in between, he's got this nasty little habit, this nasty little tell that the American people are onto, which is he lies about everything, including the economy. And he figures if he keeps yelling and filibustering us, we will love him more and understand that the economy is really not as terrible as it looks and feels and sounds and everything else. And so the state of the Union for me, and on a legal AF show, was I called it the evidence manufacturing factory.

Like, what is he going to say that's going to harm him in current or future cases? So much, so much. So we're going to break down from a law and politics perspective, the state of the union. But more importantly, what, and we knew it, especially Karen and me, what a knockout performance by Abigail Spanberger. I mean, when she had her acceptance speech a couple of months ago as the governor of Virginia, we all were texting each other like, wow, this is, right? This is the future of the Democratic Party, along with her former roommate in the house, Mikey Sherrill of New Jersey.

I learned today because I interviewed the Attorney General for Virginia that they were at each other's inaugurations. That's sort of fun. I like them a lot. And I said, oh, what a pick. This is not going to be where, you know, remember that time, Karen, where the person going up against Biden was sitting in her kitchen and acting like we just stumbled on her for the rebuttal.

Oh, hello. Welcome to my kitchen. And it was like a weird, weird presentation. I knew this was going to be like a good prosecutor closing argument. This was going to be in 17 minutes. It's going to be tough, hard hitting, tear down, starting with three questions. Everything about Spamberger is what's right about America and we enjoy that. So we'll talk about all those things.

As we came on the air, it turns out Donald Trump lied to the American people about how involved he's going to be with the purchase of the Warner Brothers discovery assets, including CNN. First he said he was going to stay out of it. Then he said, I'm going to leave it to my Justice Department. Then he fired the head of the Department of Justice's antitrust division. And now he's suddenly meeting with the next. Netflix owner to talk about the purchase and his demand, because of course he always has a demand, that Susan Rice, of all people, be fired from the board of Netflix as a condition to Donald

Trump approving the sale. It's just so crazy. Then we have another, it must be a day of the week because we have another Donald Trump folding under pressure. Janine Piro, his political supporter, an ally running the D.C. U.S. Attorney's Office. She just can't get a grand jury to a indict anybody, whether it's the salami sandwich throwing paralegal at the Department of Justice for assault on an ICE officer, or now she just can't get a grand jury to indict six members of the House of the Senate because they made a video reminding members of the military of their duty under the Code of Military Justice and their oath to the Constitution. And so she's thrown in the towel, apparently, on that, although that hasn't stopped Pete Higgseth for moving forward against

Senator Mark Kelly, we'll talk about that. And then, as I just read a substack, we're on substack, of course, a substack by, it'll come to me before the show is over, that somebody who framed or characterized the Department of Justice and Eileen Cannon, the judge this way. The Department of Justice is Donald Trump's personal law firm, and Aileen Cannon is his personal judge. And we just saw that in action with her decision to not only ban this Department of Justice from releasing the volume two of the Jack Smith, Mar-a-Lago espionage report against Donald Trump, but to tie the hands of all the future departments of justice. A, I don't think she can do that. B, her process, and we'll break it down, was so underhanded.

so unethical about the lack of adversarial process in the decision-making. It will break all that down. And anything else that pops into our mind, which is what happens after friends and six, after six years get together, like Karen Friedrich Diffelow and me. Hi, Karen. Hi, Popak. How are you? You did an amazing job as always with our fill-in guest anchor, Lisa Graves. I always love when you guys are together. I think it's so fabulous. But I'm glad I'm back, and I'm glad you and I can do our show together.

Yeah, me too. I love Lisa. I love doing it with her, but of course, I'm always happy to be with you. Like, I have been every Wednesday. Right. I tell people, it's like literally,

we've never missed a show Wednesday or a Saturday show in almost six years. And, you know, that's a badge of honor, but it's really because of our audience. We wouldn't do it if it wasn't for them. And we're so pleased that we have an audience to do it for. Let's start with the shambolic state of the union address.

I knew he was going to get off script because he can't read. There's that rumor that he's, was there even a, is there even a monitor there from the read off of a teleprompter from the read off of? And I did a little bit of a preview about, like, let's just say the economy and the lies that he would have to tell in order to have anything positive to say about the Trump economy. The good news is nobody believes. We had a great counter-programming event, you know, two or three million people watched just on Midas alone, Katie Fang and Joy Reed, you know, out in the cold with all the other Democrats that wanted to contribute for the people's state of the union. You see that the state of the union of the people is strong. It's the Trump administration that's weak and craven and needs to go.

But the polling numbers here are atrocious for Donald Trump. is a failed administration, 67% of the American people believe that, 75% of independence believe that. He's lost the young podcast brovote that helped sweep him into office, you know, all the Joe Rogan and other fans that, you know, the 25 and under voter, 30 and under male voter, they're 25% of them want their vote back. So he's not fooling anybody with this presentation. Before you comment, let's play a clip of the worst of the highlights of Donald Trump, and then you and I can kick it around before we bring in Abigail Spanberger in rebuttal.

Let's play it. A short time ago, we were a dead country. Now we are the hottest country anywhere in the world, the hottest. First year of the second term. Should be my third term. But strange things happen. I took prescription drugs, a very big part of health care. The country has never been stronger.

My first 10 months, I ended eight wars, including Cambodia. Isn't it funny? Sick people. Cambodia and Thailand, Pakistan and India would have been a nuclear war. 35 million people said the prime minister of Pakistan would have died if it were not for my involvement. In Kosovo, we cut a record number of job-killing regulations, and in one year we have lifted 2.4 million Americans a record off of food stamps. Not be necessary. It's already time tested and approved.

And as time goes by, I believe, the tariffs paid for by foreign countries will, like in the past, substantially replace the modern-day system of income tax, taking a great financial burden off the people that I love. Now it's just taken off. One of the primary reasons for our country's stunning economic turnaround, the biggest in history where the Dow Jones broke 50,000, four years ahead of schedule, and the S&P hit 7,000, where it wasn't supposed to do it for many years were tariffs. I used these tariffs, took in hundreds of billions of dollars to make great deals for our country, both economic, all Democrats, every single one of them voted against these really important and very necessary, massive tax cuts. They wanted. Wow, I don't even,

I felt like I just wandered into something. All right, Karen, take it from there. I'll break down the economic lies in a minute. Yeah, I mean, the state of the union, I watched the whole thing, was really surprising in a lot of ways. But first, let's just talk a little bit about what is the State of the Union. The State of the Union is mandated, actually, in the Constitution. It's Article 2, Section 3 of the United States Constitution, and it requires the President to, quote,

from time to time, give to the Congress information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient. So he's actually required to give, this from time to time. And his was the longest ever apparently given. I don't know if that something is a badge of honor. But what was really surprising to me was when you look at the, and you break it down, his, what he talked about in terms of informing the American people in

Congress about what's going on, what the state of our union is. It was a very small portion of his several-hour show that he put on last night. He really only focused for a very, very short period of time, stuff about the economy, tariffs, et cetera. He talked a little bit about immigration. He talked about some of his other issues. You know, he took credit for things that had really nothing to do with him, like crime going down. I mean, he has nothing to do with crime. Frankly, neither does the federal government. Crime going down has a lot to do and mostly to do with local law enforcement, and that's a clear thing that he took credit for. They had nothing to do with. He took credit for things like bringing the Olympics and FIFA to the United States. Again,

nothing to do with him. But, you know, he didn't talk about the state of our union very much. The rest of it, most of it, the bulk of it, felt like a combination to me of a Jerry Springer show meets an Oprah Winfrey show. So the Jerry Springer part was things like, like, surprise. I just, you know, he brought someone in and surprised someone from, you know, they were in jail for the longest time or they were, you know, and now here they are, because I released them. I mean, that was sort of a bizarre, a bizarre thing to do for show. He had the U.S. Olympic male hockey team come on and presented the goalie with, you know, one of the highest honors, the Congressional Medal of Honor. He, you know, again, nice, great. They were great. They're amazing, right?

The men's hockey team. I mean, a lot of people are, you know, several of them protested and didn't show up. And then the women's hockey team didn't show up. But, you know, you can still love hockey and still love them despite their partying on our dime with Cash Patel, the FBI director. And one of the weirdest clips I've ever seen of him, you know, acting like a crazy person in the locker room. him. But, you know, he just really, it was like an Oprah show where he's like, you know, giving out medals and awards, you know, this guy is 100 years old and he flew, you know, flew all these combat missions and he gets an award. And he was a true hero. And he should have

gotten one. But again, what does that have to do with the state of our union? Or a helicopter pilot who, you know, was injured, or a little girl who was hit by a car who, or hit by a truck, It was tragic, you know, and terrible what happened to her. But again, all these really feel-good stories because these are true heroic Americans who are absolutely worthy of being recognized. And frankly, I loved seeing them and even, you know, everybody applauded

for so many of these individuals because they deserved it. But it felt like such a big deflection away from what's really going on in this country. Because the purpose of last night was to talk to the American people and tell them about the state of our union. And what he did say felt like the biggest gaslighting exercise in the history of estates of the union. I mean, no, he could say all he wants,

how great the economy is, and how he's driven down prices and inflation. But everybody who goes grocery shopping or puts gas in their car or pays their electric bill knows the truth. It's actually not true. You don't need fact checkers to go and tell the American people what's going on.

He, everybody knows it. He didn't mention Epstein survivors who were there, which I thought was appalling. He didn't mention anything, you know, he talked about immigration, but he didn't mention anything about Alex Preti, Renee Good, or five-year-old Liam, who he took into custody. He didn't mention anything about what's going on there. And I thought it was really telling that he didn't mention, other than his son-in-law, his movie our wife and Steve Whitkoff and Marco Rubio got a big shout out. Other than that, and he,

in passing, mentioned Vance who's going to head up some fraud task force. He didn't mention a single cabinet member. He didn't mention Christy Noem. He didn't mention Pam Bondi. He didn't mention Pete Hegseth. He didn't mention any of his cabinet or the people who were sitting right there. And I thought that was really telling as well. He is clearly, I think, realizing that they're responsible for the shit show that is our country right now. And he tried to lie to all of us, but people know what's really going on. And that's what I sort of took away. It was a very kind of cringy, cringing night.

I thought he really knows. He act like someone who's kind of losing and he knows he's losing. And so he's trying really hard to make people feel good because we have these American heroes and giving out these awards. But, I mean, half the Supreme Court justices, including his biggest supporters, right? The MAGA ones, half of them didn't show up,

which, again, I didn't understand kind of any rhyme or reason there. It wasn't like the liberals didn't show up and the Democrats did, I mean, and the MAGA wing did. It was like, you know, it was a mixture. But he criticized the Supreme Court justices. which was, you know, I think atrocious and appalling and really disrespectful. And he just lied the whole time.

He said some really things that were really terrible too. He basically made it seem like all foreigners or murderers and violent criminals, and that's just a terrible message. And it was just offensive, to be honest. You know, what he did say that was not, you know, giving out Hero Awards was offensive to me. And lies and gaslight. gaslighting and if that's the best he could say, even in his own world of lies where he spins

things, if that's the best he could say, that to me is really telling because I thought he was going to go on and on. I mean, he did take credit for eight wars that he claims he solved. Half of them. I didn't even know we were in or that anyone was in or it was in conflict. But it was just bizarre to me, his whole ramp, rant. What about you? Yeah, let's start with the economy. The economy. is in the shitter and he knows it he's he tried to blame Biden again this is his economy it's a full year in that everything he said about the starting point of Joe Biden's economy is is false income is down the gross domestic product the measure of

the the productivity of our economy service and goods and agriculture is down it's actually in deceleration job and job creation is way down. He said he'd make millions and millions and millions of jobs when he was campaigning. He made 180,000 jobs in a year. Biden made 1.5 million jobs in a year. Inflation is up. Unemployment is up. The percentage of Americans that hold jobs is down. We know it, as you said, because we're experiencing it in real time. His lies about investments that he was able to finagle with tariffs, tariffs that have now been shot down. He keeps fudging the numbers. 18 trillion dollars of investments. His own website says nine trillion. Prior reporting was five trillion. And there's doubts

about whether there'll be any investment made by foreign countries, especially now that the tariffs have been ripped down and where that money is coming from. Sure, South Korea built a data center out in the middle of America, but that was off of the Biden, a Biden Chips Act. That wasn't a Trump, he takes credit for things that Biden, the seeds that Biden planted. And then he looks at his backyard and says, look, apple trees. Yeah, the apple trees are not yours. They were planted by the predecessor. And then you look at his claim that tariffs are going to replace income tax. Okay, tariffs at best or worst, if the Supreme Court hadn't ripped it down. And shout out to Amy Coney Barrett, who got attacked personally by Donald Trump.

after she ruled properly that the statute and constitution don't allow Donald Trump to tax and tariff his way into economic ruin. She showed up, you know, even though he called it out and said her family should be embarrassed by her. Good luck on birthright citizenship, Donald. Good luck on Lisa Cook, Federal Reserve firing. Good luck on lots of other things now that I think you're starting to lose some of the MAGA 6 like Gorsuch and Amy Cody Barrett. But this whole notion that $300 billion worth of tariffs is going to replace $4.7 trillion worth of collected taxes. I didn't go to, I didn't graduate from a mathematical academy, but I do know that $300 billion is a lot less than $4.7 trillion. you'd have to raise tariffs to 150% and create another 200 countries for the math to work.

So the math with Donald Trump never works because he's just making cheap political points, hoping that we all move on. The ending of eight wars asked Khamas and people in Israel, whether they think the war is over, asked the Ukrainians and the Russians, especially Ukrainians, whether they think the war is over. I mean, Cambodia and Thailand, I didn't even know there was a war. He claims credit for wars that he solved that. I didn't even know there was a war.

India was really going to use nuclear weapons against its border country, its border rival Pakistan. I mean, it's just the fantasy world in which Donald Trump lives is just remarkable. Now, it gives him cheap applause lines You know, it gave just the Republicans in the House of things to laugh at. You know, it should have been, it should really be my third term. You know, as if, again, you know, in his spare time, rather than trying to wreck the hopes and dreams of Americans,

he should go read the Constitution about that. And he can't even get basic facts right. He said the American Revolution started in 1776. It started in 1775. They declared independence in 1776. I mean, just like stubborn little things like facts. always seem to allude his grasp. But look, the Democrats and the American people are wise to it.

Do I think this changes the poll numbers? Do I think some people go, hey, maybe I was wrong. Maybe it's a much more successful presidency that I ever thought based on that rambling speech. No effing way. And I think in seven, I love the contrast. Two hours of Donald Trump's loggeria throwing up on the American people, you know, again, 17 minutes of Virginia governor and superstar, White Hot Superstar, Abigail Spanberger

in rebuttal. Let's play that clip. Tonight, as we watched our nation's lawmakers gather for a joint session of Congress, we did not hear the truth from our president. So let's speak plainly and honestly. And let me ask you, the American people watching at home. Three questions. Is the president working to make life more affordable for you and your family? Is the president working to keep Americans safe both at home and abroad? Is the president working for you?

We all know the answer is no. In his speech tonight, the president did what he always does. He lied, he scapegoated, and he distracted. and he offered no real solutions to our nation's pressing challenges, so many of which he is actively making worse. He tries to divide us. He tries to enrage us, to pit us against one another, neighbor against neighbor. And sometimes he succeeds.

And so you have to ask who benefits from his rhetoric, his policies, his actions, the short list of laws he's pushed through this Republican Congress. Somebody must be benefiting. He's enriching himself, his family, his friends. The scale of the corruption is unprecedented. There's the cover-up of the Epstein files, the crypto scams, cozying up to foreign princes for airplanes and billionaires for ballrooms, putting his name and face on buildings all over our nation's capital.

This is not what our founders envisioned, not by a long shot. So I'll ask again, is the president working for you? We all know the answer is no. And yet, our president has sent poorly trained federal agents into our cities, where they have arrested and detained American citizens and people who aspire to be Americans. And they have done it without a warrant. They have ripped nursing mothers away from their babies. they have sent children, a little boy in a blue bunny hat, children too far off detention centers,

and they have killed American citizens in our streets. And they have done it all with their faces masked from accountability. Every minute spent sewing fear is a minute not spent investigating murders, crimes against children, or the criminals defrauding seniors of their life savings. Our president told us tonight that we are safer. Because these agents arrest mothers and detain children. Think about that. Our broken immigration system is something to be fixed, not an excuse for unaccountable agents to terrorize our communities.

Wow, such a powerful, powerful presentation. I want to get your reaction to it. You were one of the first people in the Midas world that saw her. speech and had some great, great insight about it. But we'll talk about that. We'll also pick up with the decision by the Trump administration, Department of Justice, not to pursue criminal prosecution against, good idea, against six members of Congress, Donald Trump, lying to the American people, again, about the Epstein files, including

making sure that his name was scrubbed off of some pretty scandalous allegations against him. that we're on a PowerPoint apparently to be investigated and yet are not being investigated. We'll talk more about that as well and the rest, the way to support what we do here on Legal AF. You're here. You enjoy the LegallyF podcast. Come over to Legal AF, the YouTube channel, hit that free subscribe button, hit the paid subscribe button, even better. We have no outside investors. This is the way we people power our way into being independent. media all with your support separately we've got a legal a f substack community it overlapsed in a way with the youtube community and the podcast community but there's other people that are just living on substack

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Karen, give the audience from your perspective how effective you think Abigail Spanberger, governor of Virginia was, newly elected governor. She had been in the house. house and what your takeaway is from the you know from an advocate somebody who argues for a living like you and I do as lawyers how effective do you think her 17 minutes was against Donald Trump's two and a half hours of ramble I mean look I'm a I'm a lifelong public servant I spent 30 years in the public sector and I'm the first person who gets the chills you know when the star spangled banner plays and all the pomp and circumstance. And I love this country and I'm a total patriot. And she just gave me all those feelings, right? You know, she started with talking about the historical perspective

of the room she was, she was in, how it, how that very room is where so much of our nation's beginnings started, right? In the early 1700s, before there was a constitution, before there's a declaration of Independence, that's where Virginia, that's where so much of our nation began in that very room. And I just, you know, she just like set the tone of really what is going on and where we are. And she talked about how important really what we're fighting for is. It is for this country. It is because we all ultimately love this country and we all really love what it stands for. And we are all patriots.

We've just gotten so divided. And she was just, she talked frankly and told the truth. And she told people exactly what they're experiencing, what they're feeling, and what they're hearing. And I just thought, wow, she is the real deal. She's someone you can trust. She's someone you can listen to. And she, I thought, was incredibly effective. You know, she didn't just make things like, oh, it's the greatest economy of all times.

She backed it up with numbers and statistics and talked about real actual evidence. real actual facts. And, you know, she didn't just say, oh, no one's ever seen anything like it before. This is the greatest thing ever, the way Trump does, right? She just kind of told people what's going on. And it was, I think, a legitimate state of the union. I think if you want to know the state of our union, listen to her 17-minute rebuttal. And I think we need more of her and more of people like her. And Mikey Sherrill, who you said, yeah, when they were elected and I heard both their speeches. I was like, oh my God, I had a girl crush on both of them, and they're just great. They're fantastic. And they're the kind of people that I really look up to

and think are the future of this country and of this nation. And I think it was incredibly effective, and I'm so glad and honored that she did that on behalf of the American people. I totally agree. I love everything about her. The attorney up right now on Legal Half YouTube channel was my interview with the Attorney General of Virginia, who was in the room just off camera from her, swept in along with her, first black Attorney General in the history of Virginia. And we have a really great briefing for our audience

about how Virginia is going to lead here. And I joked at the end, I said, well, our first president came for Virginia. Maybe our next one will. And I just kind of left it as to which between the two of them. By the way, they'd be a great team together, if that ever were to happen. But you mentioned that the Epstein survivors were in the room. One of them was my client, Lisa Phillips.

And of course, Trump and his administration, no one in the FBI, no one in the Department of Justice has ever met with them, has ever spoken to them. It's very hard to conduct an investigation when you haven't met with the victims. Trump won't acknowledge them. He won't meet with them. And he was too busy celebrating the old boys network of the men's Olympic team. which kind of went down a few notches for me. You know, I'm a kid that was 14 when the miracle on the ice happened. And, you know, Arruzioni scores the goal in the first time,

second time in American history, we win the gold medal. And, you know, and then you see these Yahoo's, you know, celebrating with Cash Patel, swiggin out of a bottle and wearing a gold medal around his neck, stolen valor once again for this administration. And then allowing, you know, frankly, nobody stood up for the female Olympic team, which is actually better than the male Olympic team in terms of their success. And allow Donald Trump to get away with yet another misogynist comment about,

oh, I'll have to invite the women, too, you know, I'll be impeached if I don't. It's like, oh, my God, everything he says that comes out of his mouth, I've got to put my hand, if not that my daughter's old enough to listen, I got to put my hands around my daughter's ears, you know, because he's so immoral and so disgusting, which the American people are odd to now. That's a good thing. The American people are on to it. So the Epstein files, we've got a new development related to the Epstein files.

By the way, before you go on to the Epstein files, I just have to talk about the hockey team because you have to understand, my family is a huge hockey family. We're not huge sports people. Certainly, I'm not a huge sports person. The only sport I love is hockey, and we watch a lot of hockey. My husband played hockey, and every member of my family loves hockey. And so leading up to this, there's this great kind of docu-series called Face And we watched every episode where they talk about the life story of so many of the people,

so many of the Olympians who played both on the Canadian and the USA team. And so many of them are such good guys. And they talked about the Godreau brothers who were tragically killed last year. And it was just a lot went into this. And I agree with you. One of the greatest movies of all time was Miracle on Ice. And I remember that too, right? the 1980 U.S. Olympic hockey team.

So this felt like that kind of a win. It was really exciting for us. And I agree with you that what happened with Cash Patel and then Donald Trump and this team was so disappointing and so upsetting and on an emotional level. Because really, if you know the story of Johnny Goodro and Johnny Hockey and just these players

and what good guys they are and where they come from and Jack Hughes who scored the win, who scored the winning goal in overtime for the United States. His bomb actually is the coach, one of the coaches of the women's team, and the women's team chose not to go. I mean, there's just a lot there. And so it was personally disappointing that they didn't stand up. And like I said, five of them didn't show up, and I respect that.

But it was really upsetting on a personal level, the whole the men's hockey team there. Trump wrapped himself in a flag wrapped around the Olympic team and they allowed him to be, to make them into props. And, oh, and or they agreed and they thought it was funny, his locker room humor, which is not funny, attacking women and demeaning them. And the other thing for me is, we've got new reporting that came out today, that Cash Patel is so busy running around spending taxpayer dollars. That trip cost $100,000 on just the first. personal jet so busy running around on the personal jet that it's interfering with investigations. There's new reporting that they were slow on the Brown University shooting and the Charlie Kirk shooting because he's so busy with his girlfriend or other things running around on the personal

jet instead of doing this business. Right. They only have, FBI has two jets apparently. And he's out running around doing personal things like this and not showing up, not so they can't show up to crime scenes. And by the way, not that we wanted it to happen. Democrats are not are not the Grim Reaper. I don't wish this on there. But could you imagine

if something tragic had happened at the same moment and around the same moment as Cash Patel was swiggin beer or champagne with a gold medal and parting with them? How about if we had another mass shooting? How about if we had another Charlie Kirk on the other side?

How about fill in the blank? And where is he? That's just, that's why you don't do that. And from a prosecutor standpoint, and from a federal lawyer standpoint, we have a name for what we're watching with this administration besides kleptocracy. It's called theft of honest service.

They're not doing their job. But yet they're getting all... I couldn't help but wonder while he was in that locker room doing that whole, you know, beer thing and it was just repulsive, actually, watching him. I couldn't help but wonder, how does Savannah Guthrie and her family feel

that he's not out there trying to help find her mother? Right. You know, right? Instead, he's parting, you know, with the, with the Olympia. I mean, what's the connection between the FBI and the hockey team? Right. Exactly. He's just using this, this is, this is a kid who never got any attention from his parents or some other psychological thing happened to him. And now he gets to be now the high school quarterback is paying attention to a little nerdy kid in the corner. Oh, who I get to be in the locker room and celebrate like I played hockey? Like, no, you get to be the FBI director that you're woefully unqualified for.

But you know, don't, you know, it's like saying, I got to go backstage. Like, no, actually you don't. Why are you there? Right? Why are you in the locker room? So true. So it's just disgusting. Anyway, thank you for letting me go on my little hockey team.

Of course. But I just, I learned about you, which I did not know about you. I was just so upset about this. In fact, I think we should change the lower third tonight. I think it should be breaking. Karen Freeman Ignifalo reveals that she is a secret hockey fan her whole life. It's just hockey. Hockey is just, it's actually a really great sport.

It is. It's one of my favorite live sports. And the players are just these humble, good guys as opposed to like, whatever. It's just of all the professional athletes and fans, I just love hockey. So I'm not my whole family. And then they blew it. And by the way, he had plenty of opportunities to celebrate other things. Well, if we're in the motive, I need to distract from my state of the union and my woeful performance.

And you want to even stay in the Olympics. How about Lindsay Vaughn, who almost lost the leg trying to persevere as an American patriot wearing the USA Journal? How about Michaela Schifrin and winning her gold medal to kind of rewrite a lot of women, besides the women's hockey team, in addition to them, that you could have pointed to instead of the, the root. I just, Alyssa gal, like, you know, the skater. It was just, it was. Yeah. Oh, I love her.

I love her. Love her. That was amazing. Won't even acknowledge her. No, of course not. Of course not. But she was unbelievable. By the way, it reminds me of the time I learned that you were basically a pro dart player, right?

Yeah, in college. I played on the Metropolitan Dart League. And what was your, what was your dart playing name again? Vic. I had my own, I had my own sign-in name. Vic, yes. That's just, that's, that's legal A.F. Gold. Seriously, that's what you learned.

All right, good night, everybody. All right, so let's move, with that, let's move on to Epstein. So we learn now, as we suspected, that Donald's Trump, FBI, DOJ, scrubbed references to Donald Trump after lying the American people. See, this is why Bondi and, at least Bondi and Top Blanche are going to be impeached when the Democrats returned to office and take over the House because they just lied to the American people on that three-page cover letter, hey, everybody, we're releasing three million pages and we didn't do any reduction for any kind of, any kind of embarrassment,

or because of somebody's political, political role. Yes, you did. In fact, and this is an allegation, but it made its way to a PowerPoint that apparently got left behind and nobody's investigating. The NPR, of all things, which Donald Trump has tried to crush,

comparing the pile of documents that were produced in the Maxwell, Galane Maxwell prosecution, to what was up on the library available to the public for the end. Epstein files, the ones that were done, they found a lot of mismatch. They found a lot of things missing, including a material witness for Galane Maxwell, one of which claimed that when she was 13 years old, Donald Trump tried to force her to perform oral sex. She bit him, and he

assaulted her. Now, I don't know if that's true or not, but that is in the pile of material, and she was a material witness even though I'm not sure she took the stand in the Galane Maxwell. There's actually a PowerPoint for follow-up where that, along with other witnesses, who made claims against Donald Trump, there was a PowerPoint

about what needed to be followed up on. That wasn't. See, now we're back to, and we'll get there again when we get to Judge Cannon. It was Joyce Fance, by the way, who wrote the Substack article. I knew it'd come to me eventually. Joyce Fants put it up.

perfectly. The DOJ is Donald Trump's personal private law firm and his favorite judge is Aileen Cannon. And so both have exhibited a lack of independence in process. Pam Bondi, I love to get her back. I'm actually going to whisper this in the ear of some senator that I interview, like Blumenthal or something, or Jamie Raskin on Congress. Say to her, how did you come to the conclusion? Show me the provision of the special counsel's law, Department of Justice Manual, where you concluded that there was no ethical conflict so that you did not have to appoint a special counsel to investigate all things Epstein when it was clear that your patron, your boss, is implicated in one way or the other in the relationship or the files. How did you come to that conclusion?

How did you decide not to appoint a special counsel so that it's not you and Todd Blanche who work and are not independent working for Donald Trump? Walk me through your process because she should have appointed a special counsel, right? I may not like the special counsel rule in all of its iterations. I may have objected to having Robert Herr talk about Biden in his dotage and who was just a nice guy that if he wasn't so senile, I probably would have indicted. him. I had to sit through that. We had to take that and hours of testimony in Congress and the audio tapes perhaps being revealed. So why wasn't there an independent council being appointed here? And now you see the reason. They would have pointed this out. They would be investigating and they would be reporting back to the American people. So, and then you've got Europe again

leading the way about the Epstein files. I just ran a video. of the Irish Parliament now effectively going to be demanding that the Epstein files be released so that they can go after the rich and powerful predators who were involved. We came on the air. Larry Sumner's is out at Harvard. We knew that was coming. You know, people in business, in law, in the royal family, in academia, in Hollywood, everywhere but Trump world are being brought to justice.

and Europe and Canada and the others are leading the way. And states are leading the way. Like New Mexico is opening up, hey, they figured out they got a potential pedophile ranch being operated there. And so they're going after it. That's why we have to rely on the state attorneys general to kind of go after and follow up on these particular leads.

But you've been a sex abuse prosecutor. So from your perspective, the revelation that Donald Trump's name got scrubbed and that they're not following these leads, how does that hit you? Yeah. I mean, first of all, I love Joyce fans. I'm glad you brought her up.

And anyone who doesn't subscribe to her substact should. She's really just one of the smarter people who comments and provides information on all the topics that we talk about. And I'm a big fan. So this allegation is stunning to me because essentially what happened was this woman was 13 at the time. between 13 and 15, she's not entirely sure exactly how old she was, but the range of time. She was either 13, 14, or 15 when it happened. She didn't come forward until 2019 when Jeffrey Epstein was arrested because she knew she was assaulted and raped and trafficked by someone named Jeff.

But she didn't know because she was so young who it was. And when he was arrested, she said, oh, my God, this is the guy who did this to me. She came forward and was interviewed not once, not twice, not three times, but four times by the FBI. And when she said, I still have a picture saved on my phone of Epstein and of who it was. And one of the guys that he was with who also assaulted me. But I want to X out the other guy in the picture because, and they said, well, why? Why do you want to black that out? And she said, because I'm afraid.

I'm afraid of retribution. I only came forward because Epstein has already been arrested. I'm afraid to come forward. Who is the other guy? It was Donald Trump. So this is the opposite of someone who's looking out to kind of get Trump. She's actually trying to hide what happened to her because she's afraid. of Trump, okay? That's the opposite of someone who has an axe to grind or someone who's going out to,

you know, is anti-Trump. That's number one. Number two, they, when they, when they, they, of these four interviews, one, the first interview where she talks about Epstein, but had, but didn't talk about Trump. She talked about Trump allegedly in those second, third, and fourth interviews. They released the first one. At least that's what the reporting is. They think that that's, because don't forget they take out the names of the individuals, et cetera, but based on the timing, based on serial numbers associated with the logs of the documents and the FBI reports. The reporting is they piece together that one of these talks about what she said happened with Epstein. But again, she was too afraid to come forward against Trump. Now, the allegation, as you said,

was he, you know, he tried to make her perform oral sex on her. He exposed himself and she bit him. And he viciously and brutally beat her. That's the allegation. And they are not releasing that. They have not confirmed or denied it. What they are saying is, oh, no, we've released everything. We didn't hide anything from embarrassment, et cetera. But they did say, DOJ did say, say, however, that we, if there's an ongoing investigation, we're withholding things. I wouldn't hold my breath. That's why they were withholding this, that they're actually investigating Donald Trump. I think her fear and her fear that she wouldn't, that there could be some kind of

retribution or retaliation, et cetera, is probably well-founded. But I think this is a story that cannot go away. I think people have to demand that this be released. And frankly, the courage she showed to come forward. And now what she sees is happening and the fact that nothing is happening. I mean, I agree with you that there is some accountability in that people are losing their jobs, right? Whether it's the, you know, Brad Karp at Paul Weiss or Larry Summers at Harvard or other, a few people are losing their jobs as a result of this. There's no prosecutions, right? Who's making arrests?

The, you know, the U.K., you know, they're arresting, you know, Prince Andrew, a former Prince Andrew. He hasn't been charged, but he's been arrested. Other countries are making arrests. That's what the American people want to see, not just people losing their job. They want to see people actually be investigated and prosecuted. And the only people that were investigated and prosecuted were Gilae Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. And there was a document out there, a draft indictment that had six co-conspirators. And I think people should demand to know who those are.

and what's going on with those investigations. And the fact that the Epstein survivors have not been interviewed by this Department of Justice and this FBI tells you two things. Number one, they aren't coming forward anymore to this FBI because they know, first of all, they're terrified and afraid, I would be too. And they know that nothing's going to happen. They're not going to hold powerful people accountable. But it's more telling that no one's reaching out to them. Because if I was a prosecutor and there was these allegations and I knew that there was these victims and there was three million documents that talk about all the things that happen,

I would be absolutely reaching out, opening my door and saying, please come in and tell me what happened, and I'd be investigating these claims. But the fact that there's no real investigation, I think, just shows, and the fact that Donald Trump didn't even acknowledge the survivors in his state of the union, didn't even mention this at all. He's going to try to pretend like this is not part of the story of the state of our union right now, that this is not going on. But the American people aren't going to let this go away.

This is a massive cover-up of not just pedophiles, but sexual assault of powerful people who are sexually assaulting women and girls. There was many, many, many, powerful people who either participated in that or enabled it or financed it or facilitated it or looked the other way or covered it up. And hopefully nobody will stop demanding answers until we finally have the full picture. And again, he can try, he can not mention it in his state of the union, you know, his, like, show, because that's what it was.

It was a show in his performance. But that doesn't mean that it's not on top of everybody's mind. And I applaud the survivors for being there and having the courage to keep and continually showing their faces and saying, we're here, we're available. Yeah, one of the reasons I wanted to cover the state of the union to trust legal AF is my client was inside. And I wanted to honor the Epstein survivors. I mean, I am all about counter programming and turning our back on a ruthless, immoral, unethical criminal president. But, you know, there were people in the room that needed to be honored.

And so that was sort of my point at the time. So I certainly agree with your approach here. Let's talk about Donald Trump's inability, apparently, to get grand juries and or prosecutors to indict his political critics. It's a long list now. Now we can add six members of Congress led by Senators Mark Kelly and Elise Slokkin to the list that includes Letitia James, New York Attorney General, Adam Schiff, Senator California, James Comey, former FBI director, James Brennan, the former head of the CIA.

You name it. The only person that's got, is John Bolton. The only person has got actually indicted is John Bolton. And listen, wherever the chips fall, if you have a proper prosecutor, and you're, you you got proper evidence against them. You know what? He'll have his day in court. But everybody else, they can't just, they can't get a grand jury to indict.

Now, we thought it was I, I thought my, it was so eyebrow raising. I thought my eyebrows were going to float away off my head when, when we heard that they were trying to get an indictment through the D.C., a U.S. attorney's office led by Janine Piro, formerly of Judge Janine or whatever she was on. And against Kelly and. Slock and for others for doing a 92nd public service ad expressing their First Amendment rights to remind fellow members of the military because they're all former members of the military that they have an obligation and sworn oath to uphold the Constitution and not follow illegal or unconstitutional

orders. Now there is a statute on the books that says if you interfere with armed services morale, discipline, chain of command, that type of thing. You can be prosecuted for a crime up to 10 years. No one's ever prosecuted under this. And there's rigorous First Amendment protections around that, especially when somebody like Senator Mark Kelly is on the Armed Services Committee providing oversight to the military. So we had two things break out, right? You had Janine Piro trying to prosecute them and going to a grand jury and having that grand jury 10 days ago, nope, we're not prosecuting these people. And then you had Pete Hegseth start a process to sanction and censure Mark Kelly as a retired naval officer, take away his pension, his stripes, all this other

stuff. Kelly runs the federal court, gets Judge Richard Leon, who issues an injunction, says his First Amendment rights are being violated by any effort as a retired member of the military. He has lots of First Amendment rights, especially since he's a sitting senator. Heck Seth goes off and takes an appeal on that. That's a loser. But at the same time, you've got this grand jury thing. Now, I thought maybe they'd try and try again. That's not what happened, right?

Right, Karen? Right. The reporting is they're abandoning it. I think they're cutting their losses. And they don't want to end up like another Letitia James, you know, a situation or Jim Comey where they keep indicting over and over and over again until they find someone who will do it and then it obviously gets dismissed. So we'll see.

We'll see what ends up happening. But for now, they're abandoning it. I think they realize that the public sentiment is not there. These are sitting members of Congress. These are hero. Mark Kelly's a hero. He's an astronaut. He's former military.

He's married to Gabby Gifford. I mean, these are not people. This is not going to go over very well. And so I think they're cutting their losses and moving on, thankfully. Yeah. And look, another federal prosecutor's office could pick it up. But every time Donald Trump wants to do something underhanded or politicized, he runs the Janine Piro, she's the same person that's investigating federal reserve chairman Jay Powell

for cost overruns about 200-year-old buildings that have to be renovated. And she won't drop it despite the federal reserve. fact that at least one senator who's on the committee that has to approve and confirm the next person on the Federal Reserve under Donald Trump, Tom Tillis, has said, I am not, and he can block it alone with his one vote based on the, how the committee is, is formed or composed and comprised. And he said, I'm not, if you don't drop the investigation and get that cloud off of J. Powell's head, I am not going to vote for Donald. Donald Trump's already got a guy that he wants to get on the Federal Reserve and then elevate in May when Jay Powell's term is over as chairman, he stays on for another two years and tell us and said, nope, I'm not doing that until you drop it.

And Janine Piro's like, well, it's not my fault. It's because we sent nasty letters during Christmas. Nobody responded. So we had to get a subpoena. Like, what? It's just mind-boggling to me how feckless the Department of Justice is and the people in it are just willing to do and say. anything, regardless of what it means for their future bar license or impeachment proceedings, everybody proceeds at their own risk when they work for Donald Trump. Because if you're not named Donald Trump and you have a license, you have a career, and you don't have criminal immunity, you don't have any of those things. And so you're all, you know, one misstep, one more misstep away from being impeached and removed or indicted and prosecuted. And yet that doesn't seem to stop them at all.

I have a working theory, which I'm going to develop more on a series of hot takes, that based on the Supreme Court bashing that Donald Trump has done, which he cannot recover from, you can't take back a low blow. You know, you're a hockey fan, I'm a boxing fan. You hit somebody below the belt a couple of times, okay? You can't take that back, okay, especially when it's intentional. It's a, what do they call it in some sport, an intentional foul, you know, a grade one foul or whatever it is, can't take that back. And so the immunity decision exists, but you and I spent a considerable amount of time along with Ben analyzing it's 70 or 80 or 100 pages.

And we saw a lot of loopholes and murky language and things that weren't exactly clear that could easily be the subject of a future. immunity decision where they fix a lot of the problems, just like they tried to continuously fix Roe versus Wade until they finally just got rid of it after 50 years and taking away a woman's right to choose. My theory is that Trump will do things that will be criminal and may not be within and to test the limits of that immunity decision. The future Department of Justice under a Democrat, be that Spanberger, be that, you know, Gavin Newsom, or people we haven't even thought of yet, whoever, you know, whoever gets through the process, that Department of Justice could try to bring an immunity case and try to indict Trump. Then it's up to Trump to try to use

the immunity decision to say, you can't, I've been immunized, but not for everything. And so then you test the limits, giving the Supreme Court the opportunity to perhaps put part of the genie back into the lamp and fix the problems with their immunity decision, having now seen what Donald Trump did with it in a lawless way for four years. So there may be five votes if an indictment comes up. I mean, a federal judge, let's say a federal judge dismisses it. Okay, goes up to the United States Supreme Court. And the DOJ at that time will have to argue why they believe their indictment survives the application of the immunity decision.

And that gives the immunity decision people the opportunity to roll it back, to reframe it, to walk it back. That's a fantasy of mine. But I think it could be a reality. I'll develop that more. What do you think about that, though? I think Trump will say, Trump will say, I pardoned myself in my mind. Well, that's true. But you know what?

Force him to do that and to have that stain and that scar, you know, that he felt he had to pardon himself. I might even live with that. But if the indictment starts after, you mean he had a pocket. So we'll have a fight over the pocket pardon. I hope you're right. I mean, because the immunity decision was so wrongly decided. Right. So much more dangerous than Sotomayor's dissent said it could be and would be.

I mean, I don't think anyone envisioned how bad and how rogue he could go and how lawless he could be. But the only way they could address it, because some people have said, can't they just issue another ruling? It has to be about presidential immunity. They can mention it in a side note and something else and try to clarify. But it really would have to be they get an indictment that's been dismissed or something or a motion to dismiss. And then they go, you know what? Here's an opportunity to go under the hood and fix something that we did now that we've seen how one person used it. We didn't anticipate it.

So that's something I'm really hoping about. But listen, when we come back, let's talk about some other developments that are out there at the intersection of law and politics that you and I like to talk about. But before we do that, including Judge Cannon and her lack of what I consider to be independence, but let's first take a quick break, tell people how to support what we do here on LegalAF, the podcast. LegalAF, the YouTube channel. We're well over one million subscribers. In fact, we're about to get our one million subscriber plaque.

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We always want to be here for you, and with your help, we will. We frame today's episode around both the state of the union, what I like to call this, shut the F up of America, and also this observation that the Department of Justice, the most corrupt in history, is also Donald Trump's private law firm, doesn't do things that are independent, quite the opposite.

And we also have one particular judge that seems to go out of her way, to make rulings that are in Donald Trump's favor. This one does ultimately screws the Department of Justice, I believe, in other arguments that they are making about, like Lindsay Halligan and the indictment of James Comey that they're trying to salvage at the appellate court, while at the same time arguing to Judge Cannon,

that the Mar-Lago, what we call volume two for shorthand, of the Jack Smith report, a couple of hundred pages, that he worked on and finished like every, other special counsel, like every special counsel, as required by the statute, to deliver that volume to the Attorney General, who then almost always, except in this case, just releases it to the American people. Volume one got out already, but volume two was under the jurisprudence and jurisdiction of Judge Cannon because she made it so, subject to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. So what happens? There's no adverse party here. There's

no adversary process. This is why it's a fraud. She gets together, Trump, his Department of Justice, which he owns, and the co-defendants in the Mar-a-Lago case, and says, hey, guys, should we bury forever the Mar-a-Lago Volume 2 report? Yes, Jack Smith was illegally appointed, and you found that. And his indictment was invalid because he wasn't confirmed by the Senate. That's interesting, because that's the exact opposite position they're taking for Lindsay Halligan. And you should never let it see the light of day. And you should actually make an order binding the future Department of Justice. So it goes into the trash can of history.

Now, normally, if a judge wanted to have any semblance of independence and appearance of propriety, they would turn to another party in the room who's on the other side of the issue and say, what do you think? well what an aileen canton to i think can't do she blocked the door she locked the door to allow any other parties in to or at the door uh two oversight uh public interest groups the night foundation for first amendment for first amendment and american oversight he said oh no no no you're strangers to this trans out you're strangers to this proceeding you're out you're out so no way i don't want to hear from you no no but judge no no no you might make good arguments i don't want you know i don't

hear from you, you're out. So they had to go to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. And the 11th Circuit is now going to decide whether they should be in or out. So now she's left everybody on one side of the room. She has nobody pushing for the opposite side in our adversarial process. Now, what should she have done, Karen? We know exactly what the judge in New York did about the dismissal of the Eric Adams, Mayor Adams' indictment. When the Department of Justice is captured by the presidency, and there's no one to argue the other side. What does a federal judge do? You remember, you appoint a independent officer of the court,

whether you want to call him a special counsel or whatever, to give you advice. So in that case, he, so there'd be, because he looked around and he said, there's nobody resisting, there's nobody advocating for the other side. That's not our system. So he appointed Paul Clement, Clement, the former Solicitor General under George W. Bush, to give the court advice as an officer of the court. Did Cannon do that?

I'll turn it over to you, Karen. Nope, she didn't. Okay, good night, everybody. I know, no. She, like, this is, this was like 15 or so page ruling on her part. That was just, she might be the most partisan, the most in the bag, federal judge there is. Even Casmeric in Texas, I think she even, I think, beats him in terms of her lawless decision-making and the fact that she is just bending over backwards for Donald Trump. And she permanently barred the Department of Justice from releasing this report.

She used words, you know, she personally criticized Jack Smith. She said this was a brazen stratagem by compiling. this detailed report even after I ruled in July that the appointment was unconstitutional and dismissed, and you spent taxpayer dollars doing it. And, you know, she's a quote, special counsel Smith and his team went ahead for months, undeterred, preparing the report using discovery collected in connection with this proceeding and expending government funds in the process. To say this chronology represents at a minimum, a concerning breach of the spirit of the dismissal order is an understatement, if not an outright violation of it.

You know, she's just, she said, releasing the report now would contravene basic notions of fairness and justice and amount to a manifest injustice because the case never reached a jury. And, you know, she says, well, it's true. Former special counsels have released final reports at the conclusion of their work. It appears they have done so either after electing to not bring charges at all or after adjudication of guilt by plea or trial. But she couldn't find a situation similar to this. She doesn't at all acknowledge the fact that, okay, because the law requires special counsel, any special counsel, to do a report.

Jack was following the law. And by the way, she's the only judge who has ruled that a special counsel is invalid. And so it's kind of outrageous what she did. She said, really, this was I found interesting. She said, releasing the report would cause, quote, irreparable harm to the problem. president. And I had to scratch my head and say, why? Are the facts that bad? Is it that bad what Jack Smith found that this would be irreparable harm? In some ways, this is just an admission that these facts are so bad, because if they wouldn't, why would anyone try to hide it? Why wouldn't Trump be saying,

why wouldn't he say, put the facts out there, transparency, I did nothing wrong, but he's not. He's doing everything he can to bury this because he doesn't want anyone to see what the facts are because the facts are that bad and that harmful. And from the little that we did see, from the indictment and from what we could see when the case was brought, this wasn't just a, oops, I had some documents and didn't realize it. This was not only multiple efforts to try and obstruct getting those documents back to the archives where they belong

and returning them, and he was given multiple opportunities to do it, There were lies. He lied to his lawyers. He lied to government officials. And just the way he kept these things. And some were hidden. Some were just in unlocked storage rooms spilling out all over the floor. Anyone could have access to them. Some where he was waving them around and bragging about them to people who don't have top secret clearance. I mean, the facts are really, really bad. This was a deliberate attempt on his part to not only steal our nation's greatest secrets, but to then keep them and use them improperly. And so I think they have a lot to hide here. And that's why they don't want this to ever be released. And she's doing everything she can to try and help this administration. She is MAGA all the way.

And she is as much, she is the least judicial judge. You're supposed to kind of sit on top and not be partisan and call balls. strikes. This is another defense attorney in the room and now another prosecutor since the prosecutor is the Department of Justice. So as you said, Popak, the fact that she didn't invite anyone else to give another perspective, the other perspective to help the court is highly unusual. And the fact that she would criticize Jack Smith for doing exactly what the law required him to do, which is to write this report and that they are all hiding this. I think history is not going to look favorably upon this. And I'm hoping somehow, some way this report sees the light of day someday.

Yeah, I think what I'm hoping will happen procedurally is that the 11th Circuit has the final word. They're still having watched again Eileen Cannon interfere with the future executive branch. They already punished her twice, on reversed her twice, on interfering with the executive branch and controlled by Biden at the time in doing their investigation and prosecution of Trump. Before it was even a prosecution, it was just an investigation. She'd try to interfere on it based on a search warrant. And they said, you can't do that. Stay in your lane, your judiciary.

You're not executive branch. And so they didn't like that. And here, what is she doing it all over again? It's just another version of interfering with the executive branch, except the future. executive branch by tying the hands of the incoming Attorney General about what they can and cannot do and can and cannot release. I don't think the 11th Circuit's going to like it, and their quickest fix for it would be to reverse her decision to ban the involvement of American oversight and the Knight Center

for First Amendment rights. Get them into the case, let them make their argument, which she will obviously reject and won't reconsider, then take that up on appeal for the whole thing. Right now, the 11th Circuit may want to say something, but there's no appeal avenue, because again, as we said at the top of the segment, everybody's sitting on one side of the table. There's no one on the other side. Who's going to appeal? The Department of Justice, run by Trump, wanted this decision, proposed it. That's it's exactly from their motion, including the language about the future Department of Justice, which we caught, circled, did hot takes on.

We knew this was happening. It's all choreographed. The only problem is while I'm able to choreograph certain things in a courtroom, I'm never able to choreograph the judge. And here, it looks like they can. So we have to get an appeal avenue. The cleanest appeal route is by the 11th Circuit, reversing her, telling her she has to consider the arguments made by the Knight Center and by Oversight American Oversight. Then when she says, Well, yeah, I'm not changing anything that I wrote, most of which she spent trying to chastise Jack Smith. I mean, it really called me to watch her go after Jack Smith and say he was lawless and he was rogue. Lawless and rogue? You mean like Donald Trump? Talk about gaslighting. Oh, and he worked overtime to finish his report before his term was over. Have you read the Independent Council, Special Counsel Statute? He has to prepare a report. He can't say, well, I I was going to prepare the report and comply with the statute, delivered to my boss, the attorney general.

But I don't know, this lady down, this judge lady down in Miami, you know, or Fort Pierce seems to have it in for me. So I'll just won't do it. I just won't do it. You know, he didn't have to get her permission in the executive branch to complete his job. Again, a blind spot, a healthy blind spot, not understanding separation of powers, not, which has got her into trouble twice before. So I think the 11th Circuit is going to make its own path here to communicate,

get that up, and we'll watch it. You and I will follow it. I don't think we, I guess by the end note here, I don't think we've heard the last of this particular issue. And I'm not yet ready to say permanently she's banned future attorneys general from releasing this particular report. I mean, if people say, why does it matter, it's in the future? know, Donald Trump's releasing the JFK shooting reports and UFOs now. I mean, it matters, you know,

that we ultimately, that we speak to history. You know, when I interviewed the attorneys general, 12 of them, for the Democrats last week, and now we're putting up that content over the last couple of days, there's one in particular that I liked. In fact, I'll make a note to our producers to make sure we clip that, is when Chris Mays, the amazing attorney general, no pun intended of Arizona, who I hope also wants to go into higher office. I'm glad she's an attorney general right now, but she's certainly ready, and former Republican, by the way, certainly ready to represent the Democrats. She said she believes that our foreparents are speaking to us now, people in this era,

and she hears them about defending the Constitution, that this is the moment like no other in our history. And she just put it, I'm butchering it. She put it so beautifully, it'll be up soon. I think we got that panel going up tomorrow. But the fact that she believes that not only do we stand on the shoulders of our founders and framers and those that defended the rule of law and democracy and put this, but that she hears them and communes with them,

and is animated and motivated by them. It's so perfect. I feel that way. You know, that, you know, I feel like that if I ever got to, if I ever get to heaven and I get to have that perfect dinner that I've always wanted with like George Washington, you know, like Jefferson, Elvis, you know, I know you'll have, I don't know, Cam Neely or something sitting around the table, that I'll get to ask him all these amazing questions.

And I want them to say to me, Popak, we got to just tell you, big fans from what you've done from your slender perch of being a podcaster to help defend democracy. And even as a fantasy, it's one that gets me up in the morning. What about you, Karen? I think Prince would be at my table. The more I talk to you and learn about you, the more fascinated I am about what you like and who would be at your dinner or on a desert. Island. Freddy Mercury. Prince. Those are my. And then I'd have like sitting next to Einstein.

My grandmother. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was like, I certainly have my parents there. But, but, you know, like Einstein next to Elvis, Prince. I mean, just, but I would definitely have, you know, I've always been a nabbered with Abraham. Alexander Hamilton. Yeah. Hamilton, although you probably want Linda Nguel to be playing him in the reality. Like I, you know, Abraham Lincoln. I mean, how many book reports that I write about Abraham Lincoln and George Washington. But anyway, we've reached the end, before we be end or more, we've reached the end of another, hopefully entertaining yet educational and fulfilling episode of Legal AF, the podcast with Karen Freeman McNifalo and Michael Popock, only one place on your listening and watching Dial the Midas Touch

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