Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Legal AF 8/20/26

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

The Legal AF pod is back helmed by Popok and KFA and covering breaking law and politics news including major developments in the Former FBI Dir. James Comey criminal case which seams to be flimsily supported by talk show and fictional novel clips; the ballroom case at the Supreme Court as Trump tries to outrace the courts; the Kennedy Center naming case, as Trump pressures his own Board to put his name even bigger on the building; and new revelations that Trump’s female staffer that is closer to him than anyone has refused to be interviewed for security clearances, and so much more at the intersection of law and politics. Support our Sponsors: Qualia: Go to https://QualiaLife.com/legalaf for up to 50% OFF! Hims: Get a personalized, affordable plan for you at https://HIMS.com/LEGALAF Select Quote: Get the right life insurance for you for less at https://SelectQuote.com/legalaf today! Spring Sleep: Thanks to today’s sponsor, Spring Sleep: eXciteOSA is an FDA-cleared, prescription-only device for primary snoring and mild obstructive sleep apnea. Go to https://springsleep.com/legalaf and unlock 20% off with the code LEGALAF Become a member of Legal AF YouTube community: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJgZJZZbnLFPr5GJdCuIwpA/join Learn more about the Popok Firm: https://thepopokfirm.com Subscribe to Legal AF Substack: https://michaelpopok.substack.com/subscribe?coupon=2179cd85 Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast Cult Conversations: The Influence Continuum with Dr. Steve Hassan: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show The Ken Harbaugh Show: https://meidasnews.com/tag/the-ken-harbaugh-show Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It is midweek. And you know what that means. That means legal A.F. We got the band back together again. Michael Popock back from his travels. I love when I talk about myself in the third person. Karen Freeman McNifalo back from her things and ready to curate some of the top stories you need to know at the intersection of law and politics this week. Karen, let's do the rundown.

Comey indictment. Are you effing kidding me? you're a former federal, you're a former prosecutor. All they got to support their case is some book excerpts of James Comey's novel, a cousin who obviously doesn't like him and sent an email, and his appearance on Stephen Colbert. This bolsters your insufficient indictment and proves that you didn't maliciously prosecute. Sounds like violations of the federal principles of prosecution.

To me, we'll talk about the new filings in the Comey case, how close we may be to seeing that indictment dismissed. FBI's moving to Greenbelt Maryland. I mean, court ordered Judge Chung, no, you're not going to be able to keep the billion dollars, Trump, and send the FBI packing into the dilapidated Reagan building and not build what Congress ordered you to build, which is a sprawling suburban FBI complex to replace the Hoover building. Got a new order from Judge Chung down in Maryland.

talk about the implications of that. Let's go after that to the ballroom. Ballroom's up at the United States Supreme Court. Full briefing on the shadow docket, and Karen and I will debate or analyze what could happen in the next couple of days with the ballroom, which apparently is being made out of nuclear reactor grade concrete. I don't know what that is, but I think I need it at my house. but we'll talk about how that could that revelation could actually undermine their ability to stop or to

block the injunction about the building of the ballroom Kennedy Center well if you hated the Trump Kennedy Center you're going to really hate the John F. Kennedy Center refurbished and restored by Donald J. Trump who also revitalized it with fundraising all on the building along with a renaming of the Plaza. How is that and not a violation of Judge Cooper's 96-page order? It is. It is. Or as the representatives of Representative Joyce Beattie and the lawsuit about the Kennedy Center naming have said, it is childish and breathtaking and its display of contempt for this court's rulings. We'll talk about the new resolution that got passed by the Board of Trustees and how that's going to play out in Judge Cooper's courtroom. And the human binkie is back.

I love that phrase. It's Natalie Harp. There she is in all her glory when she's not busy writing, I would call them love notes under normal circumstances, but maybe that's beneath the office of my podcasting. So I'll say intimate notes, because that's what the Secret Service apparently called them, to the President of the United States.

Some people may question that relationship, 35-year-old former right-wing television anchor, or whatever she was supposed to be. And Donald Trump, you know, you're the air that I breathe. I can't live without you. I mean, even the Secret Service was like, what's happening here? So this was all fully reported by Maggie Hammerman and Jonathan Swan in their incredible book. Here we got it right here.

Regime change. I'm not getting paid for this, but I did read it about the human binky. You know, it used to be Alina Haba. Remember, Karen? Lena Haba used to be his arm candy and his office wife. if used to go with him to all those events because Melania refuses. Melania hasn't been seen since July 17th. So he has this lady.

And somebody struck a nerve. And by somebody I mean Senator John Ossoff of Georgia who said, I don't know, he's not doing what he's supposed to do because he's busy playing footsie, my words, with Natalie Harp on the Qatarie Air Force One. Oh, he didn't like that and had some sort of meltdown in front of a CNN reporter. Are we done? Karen, pick any of those to start with, and how are you?

I'm doing great. I have to start the show with a big, huge shout out to my father, who it's his birthday today. And in celebration of his big birthday, he's having a legal AF watch party at his house. So happy birthday, Dad, and everyone who's watching Legal AF, I love you. and, you know, that's all I have to start with the show. But yeah, let's dive in. Put some birthday emojis or whatever's in the chat tonight in honor of how old's your dad? There we go.

There we go. There we go. How old's your dad? He's 85. God love him. God love him. And he looks fantastic. The guy has worked out every day his entire life and he's in great shape.

He looks great. He's strong. He's handsome. My dad is just the best. I hope my daughter describes me this way one day. He's a member of the gun club? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, my dad, trust me.

My dad looks good. Yeah, that's great. So let's turn to you. Do you want to Comey? That's a good one. Yeah. All right. So James Comey, as we all know,

former FBI director, former lead prosecutor in Manhattan Southern District of New York, Trump critic. I mean, that's legitimate. And Donald Trump, been trying to go after him ever since. Had an indictment against him for, quote, unquote, lying to Congress six years ago.

That went by the wayside when Lindsay Halligan was kicked out of the job. And that indictment was dismissed and they never were able to bring it again. And then, lo and behold, five days before he released his book, you know, because he's a little bit of an author. And he writes fiction. And he had a book called FDR Drive. Karen and I like that book already, being New Yorkers or people who live in New York, FDR Drive. Yeah, for those of you who don't live in New York, the main highway, if you will, on the east side of Manhattan is called FDR Drive. Right. Soon to be renamed Trump Drive. Don't give them any ideas.

I know, right? Don't worry. Mbami's not going to do that. Is that a federal highway? Let's figure that out. So he writes a book about a right-wing podcaster, about a prosecutor who goes after a right-wing podcaster who says things that are incendiary and may or may not lead to the death of people. And there's a chapter about stochastic terrorism and trying to get this charismatic leader indicted some way. And why am I telling this story? because it's in the new filings by the federal government to try to support their indictment. Oh, yes.

They took excerpts from a fictional book, chapter and verse, and tried to hoist Comey on his own partard. They took an email, a text. Okay. If you have a crazy cousin or somebody who's in your family but you wish they weren't, who write you on social media or otherwise, raise your hand tonight. Because apparently the comies have such a person. And that cousin, whoever that cousin is, wrote a text message to Patrice Comey, James Comey's wife, and said, you've gone too far with the posting of the seashell seashells in 8647 as a call for violence,

and I hope your husband goes to jail. And they actually are, apparently, prosecutorial discretion now by this Department of Justice is where you poll the family of the person that you're targeting for an indictment. And if you get enough crazy emails, you indict the person. I want to hear from Karen in a minute on that. So this is what they got, Karen, to oppose a motion to dismiss from the dictative prosecution, a motion related to misleading the magistrate judge to get the indictment, all sorts of motions filed now in front of the Eastern District of North Carolina judge.

Oh, when I left out. Stephen Colbert, sure, throw him into the mix. How many times did you use late-night television if your prosecutor did. days to support your indictment. So he goes on Comey. Cobey goes on Colbert, right? And he talks about the posting. This is, this is it. This is what you got. Karen, what did you make of all of it? Yeah, look, this is such a thin prosecution as it is, right? A picture of somebody else who arranged seashells in the formation of 8647. He stumbles upon these seashells while walking on the beach and post it online.

And this is the basis of them claiming that he threatened the president of the United States. And the minute somebody reached out to him, even before the Department of Justice or anyone said anything and said, oh, this could be misinterpreted. He took it down right away. He did not ever intend it to be a true threat.

And a true threat is the term of art here that the government is going to have to prove in order to convict him. Otherwise, this is First Amendment protected speech, right? We have free speech in this country, but if you threaten someone and it's a true threat, then you can't. And that's what they're going to have to prove. And I just don't see how they're going to prove it, even with this new filing where they claim

to put it in context. And the reason, I guess, they claim they cited to his book was because of what you said. There was a character that was sending threatening messages, threatening coded messages to his followers to commit violence. And I hope that Jim Comey's response is quotes from Donald Trump, his speech on the ellipse. You want to talk about true threat? Do you want to talk about true threatening words? Let's talk about that.

That's what a true threat looks like, and the words that Donald Trump himself used. So I don't think they'll ever be able to prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm surprised they even got an indictment. And let's see if the judge even lets it get to a jury or if the judge throws it out for any number of reasons, including vindictive prosecution, right? I mean, there's no doubt. There's no doubt they're going to be able to establish that Trump has been going after Comey. You know, in the government's filings, they say, oh, well, there's no evidence that the individual prosecutor who got this indictment had any kind of animus towards Jim Comey. can't be vindictive. Well, the head of the Department of Justice is famously Donald Trump,

because just ask him, he'll tell you, but also Todd Blanche, who will say that, will also admit that Donald, that he answers to Donald Trump and that there is no separation between the Department of Justice and Donald Trump, and that, of course, if the president has priorities, he's going to go and prosecute them. And so all they have to do is lay out all the times that Donald Trump has tried to go after Jim Comey and has been looking for anything to prosecute him on. If you remember, he was indicted for, quote, lying to Congress, but that was thrown out because Lindsay Halligan

was not a properly appointed United States attorney. I think they'll be able to make out a vindictive prosecution case and this case never gets to a jury. But if it does get to a jury, I don't think they're going to be able to prove true threat. There's no way anyone can interpret this as a truth. threat. I don't know why you say that, Karen, tongue firmly planted in cheek, because here's how they address it in their filing. Are you ready? Here we go. There is no serious dispute that an objective

viewer of Comey's post could read it to mean kill President Trump. That's it. There's no citation. There's no evidence. There's no law cited next to it. In fact, they spent a considerable amount of paper, avoiding a ruling by a judge in D.C. who had to address 8647 in the last couple of months because of a public interest group, a protest group that's set up somewhere in Washington that has a manned booth every day calling for the impeachment of Donald Trump, 8647. And he said, no one in their right mind under this context would take that as a true threat. I worked in a diner. For those that have heard this story before, I'm sorry. And if you're mixed you, hungry. I'm also sorry. But I worked in a diner when I was studying for the bar exam, okay?

And I know what 86 means. It's when the short order cook tells you that they're out of tuna salad and to stop selling it. 86 to tuna salad. It doesn't mean take the tuna salad out in the back and put a bullet in it. And they're really, to your point, Carol, they're really grasped at straws and trying to find fourth and fifth definitional examples of the word, the slang term 86, totally avoiding the federal judge because they don't like the ruling, who already said it can't possibly be interpreted out of those facts as a true threat. And I think the same thing applies here. And they have a very weak argument, Karen, I'm sure you caught it, where they said, well, this can't be vindictive prosecution in response to the fact that we lost the earlier indictment

because we were looking into this before that indictment was dismissed. Okay. The only thing you can say apparently complimentary about Pam Bondi is that she would not, even she would not allow the 8647 indictment to come out against James Comey. But we know that there is no depth below which James Comey will not sink in order to get his nomination. It was, the tryout was, what do you need me to do? What do you need me to do? I'll do it. I'll do anything. I'll indict the Southern Poverty Law Center. I'll do it. I'll indict Comey again under 86 47. I'll do it. Go after, you know, fill in the blank, you know, set up an immunity for me and my family related to tax evasion. I'll do it. Okay. You're getting the job. That's,

that history books will write a version of what I just said. I have, I am reasonably confident. And all this bullshit that Todd Blanche is trying out in Sunday morning talk shows in an interview is about, oh, the president has never asked me, and I never would. And he never would ask me to go after his political enemies. That is total and complete. Or shit, you and I both know it, and so does the American people. So if that's the best you got, but the one that made me laugh out loud is the unnamed cousin. How many times in your 30-year career as a prosecutor did you take a poll of the crazies

around a particular person that you were investigating? And that was one of the things that led you to indict. How many times? Zero. Zero. So a cousin apparently wrote to Patrice, see if I can find it quick enough, and said, you finally have gone too far.

Your Trump derangement syndrome is out of control. And so, oh, even the cousin thinks he should be indicted. Is that where we're up to now? Who you shoot pool with and your cousins determine prosecutorial discretion? I mean, look, if that's the best, they've got. But, you know, they're grasping at straws because, think about it, if this was really a true threat, why did they wait a year to arrest him? You don't have to get an indictment to arrest someone. This didn't take a huge investigation. This isn't like some big complicated

white collar case that you had to subpoena records from banks, et cetera. What took a year? He posted a picture. It says what it says. The evidence is what it is. If it was a true threat and there was actual danger and he was threatening somebody, then arrest him right then and there, number one. Number two, the fact that there are all these other people out there who are, there's people on Amazon selling T-shirts, 86-47. As you said, there's this person with a booth set up, 86-47. 86-47 is everywhere, and there's not a single other prosecution. So talk about vindictive prosecution.

I mean, they have nothing. And so they have to look for any little gasp of something. that they have to support this very flimsy, very thin theory. And if, look, if a disgruntled or wacky cousin is the best you've got, that says a lot about the Department of Justice, in my opinion. A fictional book and a crazy cousin. That's what they've got. And an appearance on Colbert. That's your case? I mean, if I was the judge, I would just look down my glasses. I mean, like, tell me you have more. That took a year. That took a year for you to come up with. And so I think if you were picking sides, you'd want to be on Comey's side right now.

And I'm sure Patrick Fitzgerald, his lawyer, who's preeminent former top prosecutor in Chicago and James Comey himself. And maybe even his daughter, Maureen Comey, are rubbing their hands in glee that this is what they have to deal with. And they'll be filing their reply paper, which we will follow. Let's touch before we take our first break. Let's touch on the, or talk about the FBI. Cash Patel since day one has wanted to dismantle his own FBI. There's no other way to put it. He threatened to close the Jay Edgar Hoover building, this dilapidated building.

I don't know why it's falling apart so bad. He's built in 1970s. It's not like the Federal Reserve had those 100-year-old buildings they were dealing with. But apparently, you know, like the way it was built or whatever, the way it was kept up, there's just bricks and stone just drop into the ground. And he said, oh, I'm going to get wrong, I'm going to mothball it. I'm going to make it into a museum. I'm going to put all those FBI agents in places like,

Alabama and where the real crime is and get them out of Washington. Okay. The problem with that is Congress bipartisanly starting like 12, 15 years ago authorized and mandated through an act of Congress that the FBI get a new headquarters. They allocated it up to right now it's up to almost a billion dollars for it, money that's now apparently missing or been diverted by Donald Trump. Trump's plan is, oh, we don't need a big sprawling headquarters like the CIA has at Langley. We'll shove them into the Ronald Reagan building, which is also dilapidated. And we'll put the billion dollars. Who knows where? A little, a little bookkeeping entry issue. Who knows where the money is? No. And so Greenbelt, Maryland and the county, Prince George County,

and the state of Maryland sued because they were the winner of a competition between themselves and Virginia to get that project creating tens of thousands of jobs and construction. And you know what Trump doesn't want to do. He doesn't want to benefit a blue state like Maryland or an up-and-coming politician like Westmore. So he killed it, you know, just like he went after Colorado when they, when they indicted and sentenced and convicted and sentenced Tina Peters, the election clerk for all of her, you know, election denying, interfering activity, and to get them to relent. And it worked, by the way. They squeezed that Democratic governor so hard, he's outgoing, that he actually relented and commuted

her sentence. And the reason is they started cutting off the federal dollars. They move the space force out of Colorado. They cut off some Weather Center money and federal dollars. And he said, uncle, and he commuted that sentence. They're trying to do the same thing in Maryland. What do you make of Judge Chung's analysis and decision-making in the next steps? I mean, look, that was a pretty simple analysis that he, the conclusion he came to. He basically said, look, this was the decision to not move the headquarters to Maryland was not, was against the law. It was not in accordance with the law, because Congress had specifically required the headquarters to be selected from three approved locations and nothing in the governing statutes authorized Trump in this administration to unilaterally rescind that

and just pick an entirely new location. So we blocked the move. I mean, it was a simple interpretation of what the law is. And so, you know, I don't know what they're going to do. I don't know what they're going to do other than just completely violate what a judge says like they're doing with the ballroom. I mean, that to me is the biggest example of them just doing whatever they want and not listening to a court, and we're going to get to that. But other than ignoring what the judge says, I think they have to keep going. Yeah, I agree. I think the Judge Chung said very straightforwardly, if Congress wants to change it by an act of Congress and let you use the dollars for the Ronald Reagan building, you can go ahead. But until then, you're moving to Maryland.

Why doesn't he go through Congress? He can, you know, he controls Congress. Why doesn't he just go to Congress? Why are these court battles going on? Why doesn't he just have Congress? Does he control Congress in the House? I mean, it certainly seems like it. Because it's 50-50 because, you know, they're down to like three, a margin of three. and people who were there who see the need of the FBI having a modern state of the art facility voted for that money and voted for that building

and they don't trust Cash Patel and Donald Trump. And so I think there's enough bipartisanship about the issue that the FBI long term needs a real home that I don't think he has the votes. That's my interpretation. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if it was a different leader you know, it wasn't Cash Patel carrying the water on this, you know, maybe you would have a different

outcome. But listen, they can try. I mean, the things, he can't even get the SAVE Act passed and he controls Congress, you know? So I'm not so sure it's that easy these days. That's why keeps bypassing them with executive orders. That makes sense. But the SAVE Act is, look, that is totally separate, right? This was already authorized. This was already Congressional authorized. Ten years ago. Yeah, you would think they'd want to preserve something that they already decided. Well, if you're interested in institutional in protecting your co-equal branch status, you shouldn't

let as an institution, you shouldn't let the presidency shit all over you and not execute, which is right there in the title, as the executive branch, not execute the laws that you pass. That's a bad precedent for the future. And they're starting, the problem is they're so focused now on the midterms and their primaries and they're whatever. Nothing's getting done. This is, you've seen the numbers, right? This is the most do nothing Congress of all time. It's passed like five bills, five laws.

I mean, other than the budget and stuff that keeps their lights on, they don't pass any other laws, Karen. They really don't. They really don't. There's nothing. I don't want people to think like, why does an legal AF ever talk about the good laws that are being passed by Congress? There aren't any. There are, it's just self-preservation. Oh, another budget, another fund spending, another,

another, what's wallpaper over the debt and the deficit, the $40 trillion growing deficit and pass another bill to keep our salaries flowing. That's all you see. And they're not having hearings that you would think they should have, right? I mean, they, for example, they filed, they passed the Epstein, Epstein Files Transparency Act. You would think they would now have hearings, right? to see how are we doing in terms of compliance with that act? No, not at all, right?

Instead, they're just, they're, I don't know, they're having very, very partisan hearings, not about things they should be having hearings about. Last time we saw Melania, she was calling for congressional hearings that victims testify in order to get justice. Remember that? Oh, there should be congruent.

That fell on deaf ears. Then she went back and crawled under, you know, Bergdorf-Goodmans or wherever she goes in New York since she's abdicated her responsibilities as the First Lady. That may be a good thing. I know a lot of people wrote when I said a version of that. A lot of people wrote in my chat, we like seeing less of Balania. That's okay.

She can, she should do her. She'll only do bad things, as we know, as the First Lady. When we come back, we're going to talk about the ballroom, because it's now fully briefed at the United States Supreme Court, the Kennedy Center and its new resolution to put, I don't know, a drive-through for McDonald's or his name back on in bigger letters than before and how Judge Cooper is going to feel about that. And then, yeah, we're going to talk about this unnatural relationship between an 80-year-old

president and a 35-year-old executive assistant. I've had executive assistants in my life. None of the – I have one now. I assure you they're not writing love notes to me. They never have. nor would I want them to. And why is it okay that when he made it, when he played God, Karen,

and he chose who was going to go on the real Air Force one and get blown out of the sky potentially by an Iranian missile? He chose Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, and Scott Besson, the Treasury Secretary, and who is he going to save to put on his little mini Air Force plane along with Pete Hankseth, Natalie Harp? Was she in the case? catering container with his with his fat ass coming out the back i mean i don't know but she got on that

plane too why why why is she on marine one why is she writing notes about you're the air that i breathe and i miss our little discussions why why is she the human binky we'll cover that as well we come back from our first break so many great ways to support what we do they're all free first legal a f the podcast let's keep that at the top of the charts there is there there there there there. There's a there. Thank you, Karen. There is a scan button, scan bar to download the audios. Hold on. Let me hear from my producers. We need more downloads. We need more downloads. It drives ratings. It drives traffic. It drives the algorithm. Don't ask me why. Don't ask me to explain it. I could never in a million years, but I've been told it needs to happen. So take a moment.

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Welcome back and thank you for your fervent support, your generosity of spirit, and in some cases of money to keep us on the air and keep this content coming to you uninterrupted. It's so appreciate. I can't even express how appreciative we are of our audience and them spending and you guys spending your time with us. Let's give an update, Karen, on the ballroom, now fully briefed for the United States Supreme Court. The Department of Justice must think it does its best work at 1.30. 8 a.m. in the morning because that's when they filed their emergency petition up to the United States Supreme Court on Friday asking Judge Roberts, Justice Roberts, and eventually the whole court to block Judge Leon's original injunction, which allowed them to continue to develop the

military hospital Taco Bell complex below ground, but not build a 90,000 square foot ballroom. And I'm going to say something that other commentators are afraid to say. Donald Trump destroyed the White House as we know it. Donald Trump destroyed the White House as we know it. He didn't just like do some remodeling. He knocked over a third of the building. You know, the White House as we know it, whether you're a West Wing fan or otherwise,

is like the centerpiece, the West Wing, and the East Wing. That's the White House. And the East Wing's missing. It's like when you're flying a jet, you look out your window and the other engine is missing. It's gone. And then the wreckage of it is he wants to erect a ballroom, which until somebody took another shot at him or tried to at the White House

Correspondents dinner was not about security. It wasn't about, it's an integrated security thing. We need the shell of the ballroom with a drone missile-proof thing and concrete. That's not what they said. They said that they needed a ballroom because they didn't want women getting their high heels caught in the mud of the Rose Garden. This was Trump's words, not mine. And they needed a better, more dignified place to conduct ballroom.

room business you know whatever that's supposed to be now trump's like it's my bunker i have to operate out of a ballroom for the rest of my term otherwise i may not live that i might not live it out and you know soon as they figured out well if we say national security that'll probably help us at some of these court hearings right no now the new problem is the second the federal appellate court three to two to one uh millett garcia and millet and millet writing it for the the majority against Trump or Rayo, affirm Judge Leon's injunction and ruled that by statute and by Constitution, it is Congress that is responsible for the People's House, the People's Park, the National Parks of which the White House is a part of it. And if you want to remodel it,

or you want to demolish it, you got to go to Congress to do it under the organic statute, period. And no, there's no out clause, like there's no footnote that says, unless you raise a third of the money from private sources, and then you can do whatever the F you want. I mean, I would have loved if Judge Millett during, or one of the, or Garcia had said during the oral argument when Yaakov Roth for the government argued, when they got into the thing about, so you could knock over the Statue of Liberty, we'd have no jurisdiction? Yep, it's about right. I would have loved to them to say, what would it, what's your position on? could Donald Trump, who was a critic of the White House in the first term, could he have decided in the middle of the night just to knock the whole thing over, put up a condominium, a tower of some sort without, because that would have gotten, that would have trapped Yakoff Roth to try to define a line about what he could. Well, no, that's going too far. Well, why is that going too far and knock it over the East Wing, not going too far? So that's how I would have handled it, but that didn't really come up during the appellate argument. Now they've gone to the Supreme

Supreme Court on a shadow docket. Why don't you take it, Karen, from shadow docket lecture forward about what you think is going to happen next? Yeah, look, this is like an emergency petition before the Supreme Court. It's an emergency application asking them to allow this construction to continue during this whole appeal of this injunction, right? And he's basically saying, the question is, is this a separation of powers issue? In other words, does Congress have to say that this is okay? Or because now he's saying it's a national security thing, is it really in his purview to make the decision?

Either way, the National Trust is saying, excuse me, they also, this doesn't belong to anybody. This belongs to the people. This belongs to the American people. And there are preservation statutes and rules and historical preservation as well here. And he has just taken a virtual, a literal sledgehammer to the East Wing

without getting permission, calling it an alteration, which is a joke. And then now saying this is a national security thing. And look, the injunction essentially said, you can build everything from the ground down, but you can't do anything from the ground up until this is fully litigated. But what Trump is doing is completely ignoring that,

completely and building this ballroom. And what they're doing is they're working 24 hours a day or 20 hours a day, seven days a week. There's over 250 construction workers that are there. And they are doing it like that so that they can essentially say, we can't reverse it. We can't reverse it now. It can't be stopped because we've gone too far. We have to keep going. And so that's how they're trying to get around this question.

court order. Now, if I, the plaintiffs can say, look, talk about irreparable harm, which is what they have to show here to get an injunction. The fact that that Trump is saying we can't reverse it, that we can't stop it shows that we are irreparably harmed, right? But the irreparable harm has already happened. And it happened after the injunction was put in place. So this, to me, is going to come as close as it gets to Trump just flagrantly violating a court order, not listening to to a court doing what he wants and seeing if the Supreme Court will stop him. I mean, at this point, I don't know how they stop. I don't know how they stop without, they have to put something there at this point

because he's taken down the east wing, right? They're not going to tell them, okay, put the east wing back up. And so they're going to somehow, I don't know how they're going to, how they're going to thread this needle because he has flagrantly violated a court order. He's done exact, he's violated the law. he's violated a court order and I don't know how

and he's continuing every single day to violate this court order 250 person crew 24 7 using nuclear nuclear reactor grade concrete in order to get it up look they could seal it and cap it until this whole thing

is resolved that's what Judge Leon told them to do look you made a giant hole of your own making you made a mess of your own making go fix it Cap it. You can secure it. That's part of the injunction. You can secure the site. They're obviously operating business as usual at the White House. He doesn't cancel. He's hosted state dinners since the hole is in the ground. He just had a state dinner. He's hosted foreign dignitaries. He's had them at the Oval Office. He hasn't stopped. He's not working out of a construction trailer. You know, he's not, he's not like, well, I'll just fly around in one of my several Air Force ones

for the next year because I can't use the White House or I'll just operate out of my golf clubs. He's not golf courses. He's not doing that. So for me, that always undermines from the record stamp that always undermines any of his position taking. But now we gotta see if he's got five votes on the United States Supreme Court to give him a fiffin ballroom. One more thing, the Democrats, if they get possession of the White House again, are going to have to fix. How many tens of millions of dollars, Karen, do you think that the next administration is going to have to spend

to reverse all of the Roman emperor gilded, golden monuments, renaming statues and ballrooms of Donald Trump? Hundreds of millions of dollars, right? You know, it's funny because if you went up the West Side Highway in Manhattan, which is the other side of Manhattan, not the FDR drive, there's a whole stretch of buildings that all had Trump's name on it on the Upper West Side. And years ago, all of those buildings,

the co-ops and condos, they voted to take his name off. And so it doesn't say Trump anymore. And I think that's exactly what's going to have to happen, is they're going to have to peel his name off of all of the places he's affixed his name. Take that ugly gold leaf stuff he has in the Oval Office. I mean, that just looks atrocious, in my opinion, what he's done to the Oval Office. But this, I don't know that someone would take it down. This is going to be a military facility, allegedly, and what are they going to do?

Take it down and put a park there at this point? I mean, this is going to be one. He's going to put it up and he's going to keep going. And who knows what the Democrats or whoever is going to do with this building after the fact. The thing that bothers me the most about this isn't whether or not, I mean, it bothers me that he took down the East Wing. I mean, that was a historical building that should have been preserved. What bothers me, though, the most about this whole thing is, you know, whether or not you need a bunker, or whether or not you need a ballroom.

What bothers me the most is that he has basically giving the middle of his middle finger to the courts. And he is saying, I can do whatever I want. There's no separation of powers. There's no co-equal branches of government. He's being told by the courts that he can't do it and he's just doing it anyway. And that's where, to me, the rule of law breaks down completely. And that to me is the scariest part of all of this and what this really represents, It's not just a ballroom versus no ballroom.

This is really about the rule of law and him just ignoring it. Well, that's why we're going to have to see what the Supreme Court does. And if there's five votes to give them the ballroom or not giving the ballroom, I don't know yet. We'll know in the next week or two. If they're going to block the injunction, he'll get the ballrooms. It'll go up. It'll be on the merits, even though they'll say, well, it's not on the merits, but it really is on the merits because that building will go up and not be replaced.

So let's talk about Kennedy, speaking of flagrantly violating court orders, Kennedy Center, which, I don't know, operated just fine for decades until Donald Trump came in and started describing it as some sort of slum that he needed to, you know, gentrify and fix. I never heard in any years when other presidents were president, including Trump and the first administration, that the Kennedy Center had major problems that every performing arts center that's of a certain age or vintage needs to be you know refurbished i mean you and i live through lincoln center and what we're saying with our new york theme today lincoln center in new york and what used to be avery fisher hall now now geffen hall and all of that and tens and hundreds of dollars spent for modern audiences and new technology and all of that i get it soundproofing but but but Let's start with the name. Trump says,

you know, somebody check the statute. What does it say? Oh, it says that this is a living memorial to JFK following his assassination, and no one else can put their name anywhere on the building. Okay, so what I'm hearing is I can put my name on the building. So he starts putting his name on the building. And he has the board of trustees, which he controls,

and he has them all by the short hairs, you know, Howard Lutnik and Howard Lutnik's wife and Ushah Vans. and Richard Grinnell and Paolo Zampoli of the modeling agency and who did the arranged marriage with the Bellanica Trump and Donald Trump, all these A-holes who are on the board, who vote, of course, to reward Donald Trump by slap at his name on top of the Kennedy Center and to put up on Bing TARP

and then and cancel the Kennedy Center for the next couple of years because nobody wants to perform there because no self-respecting artist, musician, actor, a comedian, nobody wants to perform there while Donald Trump is the president. You know, how many times can't, you know, you can't put Lee Greenwood in residency, like it's Vegas for the next two years, although that sounds pretty good, I guess the Trumpers. So to save himself the embarrassment, Trump's like, let's just shut it down. We'll say that the building needs complete repair and let's shut it down so we don't have to worry about programming.

Well, there's an organic statute that says it has to serve. of the community. And I mean the D.C. community by having programming. So about a month ago, you and I did the report on it. Judge Chris Cooper, 96 pages worth, went through it and said, okay, first of all, you can't fire Joyce Beattie, the representative from Ohio, as a member of the board of trustees. So you have to reinstall her. She gets to participate. That's one. Two, yeah, you can't shut down the Kennedy Center on a vote. You have to use prudence, your fiduciaries. I don't see where you did diligence, due diligence,

or any kind of appropriate research to make the decision that it has to be closed rather than have it be done in stages and keep it open while you're performing and all of that. And three, no, under no circumstances, can you put Trump's name anywhere near it? And you can't sneak it in the back door by creating a Trump Kennedy Center Foundation, which we've never heard of before for fundraising and try to bring it. No, no name, tear down that name.

And they tore down the name on the injunction. He left up the scaffolding and still up the tarp. And he said, you got a big meeting in August. So I have your big meeting, trustees. try to fix these problems I listed in my order and come back to me. Now, Howard Lutnik, who I used to work for, took to the microphone, which he loves it, right? It's the oxygen he breathes.

And he said, well, I'm going to be in charge of for the president of making sure we comply with the orders because his wife saw the board. And I knew that was going to be a disaster. And so they, Karen, they issued a resolution a few days ago where they said, in honor of President Trump, and whereas President Trump has raised so much money and he's helped revitalize a dilapidated Kennedy Center, we're going to put his name bigger than the Kennedy Center,

bigger than John F. Kennedy's name, as being refurbished and revitalized by Donald J. Trump and the Donald J. Trump Plaza, and if we raise $100 million, then we're going to say, and endowed by the Trump Kennedy Center, it's going to be like five lines of text, most of it devoted to Donald Trump. And as the lawyers for Joyce Beattie wrote in a status report today, this is a childish and blatant, breathtaking disregard for this court's order about the name and the fact that the tarp is still up.

And no, you bring back Karen for a minute. Karen, what do you think they based, I know you, it's a bad way to ask because I know you know. How many slides did the Board of Trustees review substantively in order to make the decision to shut down the Kennedy Center in a PowerPoint deck? How many slides? Zero. No, two. They had five. But five slides.

One was the title page. The back one was the closing page. One was a biography of the person who wrote it. And two pages of bullet points is what they based their decision. Do you think that's the prudence that Judge Cooper was looking for? This is a joke. I mean, what's the psychology behind Donald Trump has to have his name on everything? He's so insecure that he has to have his name everywhere.

And then you've got all these people who spend their time. Like the fact that the board of trustees is spending all their time, not coming up with great programming, not finding artists, great artists to perform there, not figuring out how they can serve the public, coming up with other ways to put Donald Trump's name on the building not once, not twice, not three times, but like five times.

That's what they spend their time doing because he's so insecure and needs to have his name all over everything. I just don't get it. I don't understand, I don't understand what, why this is happening. And again, violating the court order and violating the law. He's because he's a megalomaniacal narcissist

and he thinks the more things he puts his name on. Look, it's going to be like those, remember those images with Iran when the people once liberated, went on horseback with ropes to tear down the giant statues of Saddam Hussein? It's going to be the effing same thing, except it's going to be, I don't know, the independents of the Democrats

doing it. They're in a lot of trouble. Here's what I think's going to happen. Judge Cooper's not going to be happy, especially after he was attacked by Donald Trump, including about his wife. He actually was so low and disgusting that during a social media posting about the original decision, Trump said, even your own wife, Judge, doesn't want to carry your name. I guess she doesn't have her last name. And because she's embarrassed by you, really. Well, that, that's, that's, That's an appropriate thing to say about a sitting federal judge. So he's not going to be happy. They've asked for discovery because they're tired of being spoon fed on the Joyce Beattie's side,

documents by the Trump administration curated, they said. Like, for instance, if I'm doing a discovery plan, let's see. I'd like all the text messages and emails between Howard Lutnik and his wife, Alison Lutnik. I'd like all of the text messages between Paolo Zambole and Donald Trump. anybody on the board like Richard Rinell and Donald Trump. Trump, did you hear this one, Karen? Joyce Beattie revealed during an interview that Trump was on the phone call, because it was a telephonic board meeting,

he was on the phone call listening in to make sure that his name was put on. Like, you could like hear him breathing. It was like an obscene phone call to his own board. I mean, the fact that that's what he's worried about. Again, what about the Iran? Get us out of that. You know, there's so many more important things going on, and what does he care about? His name on the Kennedy Center.

That's what's important to this president. Yeah. So he's going to get in a big trouble. There's going to be a new filing for another injunction. There's going to be an order of contempt eventually. It'll all happen in September. And you know where to find out about it on Legal A-F, a podcast and YouTube channel. I'm so glad everybody's here today.

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All right, listen, we're not salacious here on Legal A-F. I'm not talking about Natalie Harp with you, Karen, because, like, you know, I want to be in the National Enquirer. I'm like, oh, my God, it's so interesting. You know, like, no, I'm doing it because it is a legitimate question to ask, despite them thinking it's below the office of the president, for CNN to follow up on something that John Ossoff said during his campaign speech, questioning the relationship in Donald Trump's focus on his job instead of on his relationship with a 35-year-old female staffer. If I'm not the one that wrote the love notes and put them all over the Oval Office as reported by Maggie Abramon, I'm not the one that said, you're the air that I breathe.

I can't live without you. I miss our time. times together. I didn't write that. She wrote it. First question for you, Karen. Do you think it's a legitimate question for the media, for us in our commentary to highlight this, how do we put it, this unnatural weirdo relationship between the 80-year-old president and his 35-year-old staffer? Of course. I mean, by all accounts, she has more access than even the chief of staff, Susie Wiles. I mean, she right now, according to certain people, has the most access, the most proximity, and in some senses the most power in the White House of any of his aides. And so, of course, it's legitimate to ask what qualifications does she have to have that type of a role.

And then when you hear the, frankly, inappropriate way that she has talked to him, we've always thought it was strange that he needed someone, if you remember during the Trump, when he was being prosecuted by the Manhattan DA's office, she was there printing out articles, positive and favorable articles for him, because he needed that. He can't handle negative press, so he needs to constantly be told how great he is

and see people saying good things about him because I don't know if it's a fragile ego or what it is. And so we always called her what, human printer, it was weird that she would just sit there and print out positive stories for him and that he needed that constant agilating. adulation and reinforcement. But now when you hear that of all the people on Air Force One, when there was a threat to people's lives, he basically, to his life and therefore everyone on

that plane, he left everyone on the plane, dozens of reporters, cabinet members, he left everyone on that plane except her and Pete Heggseth. And why, so who is, I think it's a completely legitimate question to ask. And then when you hear how inappropriately she speaks to him, Look, as a woman who has worked for powerful men before, that is what I have done many times. I've never in my life spoken to these people like that. I mean, the men that I've worked for like that, it is bizarre. It is completely bizarre. And just the more you hear about her obsession with him, it's not devotion or loyalty.

It's like an obsession that she has towards him. And frankly, it seems to be mutual, right? The fact, like I said, that he would choose her, that she's the one he wants to survive with him, you know, in his food cart that he got, you know, his catering cart. I don't know if she got smuggled away in the catering cart with him. But somehow she ended up on that plane. I think it's a completely legitimate question to ask.

And unfortunately, I guess it struck a nerve because the outsized reaction that the White House is having to John Ossoff and Kristen Snell from CNN and people who have questioned, that's what's causing, I think, the eyebrows to raise is the fact that they've acted like, I mean, if there's nothing to see here, you just nothing to see.

I don't know what you're talking about and move on, but they've reacted in such a way that the reaction is what people are saying is causing people to raise eyebrows and wondering why are they having such an outsized reaction to this? So it makes you think, you know, something is. is going on there.

Oh, right. It's like the old line from Hamlet. He thinks the lady doth protest too much. And why is this such? And the lack of self-awareness by the Trump administration people like Stephen Chung, this is below the dignity of CNN. You will go down in history about the reporter

by asking the question. Your grandchildren will read. Natalie Harp is the person who post, the ape and chimpanzee animation meme of Barack and Michelle Obama. Okay? That was revealed. That was never denied. She posted Donald Trump as Jesus Christ Almighty with a stigmata, okay? And any other disgusting posts that you've seen where Donald Trump has gone after women or Democrats or transgender people, it was more likely than not written by Natalie Harp, who, as you said, has complete carte blanche.

When she started posting things, and even, as you said, Susie Wiles, the chief of staff didn't know about it, let alone Stephen Miller, they said, you need to clear this with us. She's, no, I report to one person. I report to Donald Trump. I mean, this is so creepy that my first thought was, is this like the fan club president and Selena? Do you remember that?

You know what happened there. I mean, the Secret Service is probably like, hmm, this is a problem of compromising the security of a president of the United States. I mean, listen, presidents have had personal secretaries that they've been very close to. You know, Kennedy had a person named Lincoln. Lincoln had a person named Kennedy. There was all those weird coincidences in life. Nixon had whoever she was that erased the 18 minutes on the tapes.

They've all, you know, Clinton had a betts. Betty, whatever her name, Betty Curry, who helped her, helped him with Monica Lewinsky. They've had relationships, but not love notes, not playing footsy. And again, what it goes to is not whether he's really sleeping with Natalie Hart. I don't know. What it goes to is he is easily distracted and where he should be placing an emphasis on the American people and what's right for them and how to get himself out of the war that he started. He's instead concerned about, make sure Natalie gets all the Air Force playing with me.

Make sure she's at Bedminster with me this weekend. And you know who's missing Karen from all of this? Melania. He's only made 36 appearances. That's less than once a week in the last six months. Melania Trump. Last time she was seen was July the 17th. She didn't go to the Lindsay Graham funeral.

She didn't go to China. She didn't go to when Donald Trump received the bodies of service. people in a dignified ceremony. You know who's next to him? Natalie Harp. She's the new Alina Hoppa. Yeah. Where is Melania, by the way?

Got me. I assume New York. You have a better chance of running into her than we do. I mean, but she has a taxpayer-funded staff, right? And so we should get to know where is this, where is our money going? Where is the first lady? Is she performing? She has staff because she has First Lady duty.

right? I got a question for you. Where Donald Trump demolished her office. The East Wing is the primary functionality of the East Wing is the First Lady's offices. It's the offices of all the...

You've been to the White House tour, right? Yeah. I did one under Biden. Thank God. And we got to go to the East Wing. And it was dedicated to the First Lady because that's where they, West Wing, President, East Wing, First Lady. Well, in the middle of the night, probably without telling her Donald Trump knocked over her office.

Where is her new allocated real? Where is it? It doesn't exist. So her office is in Trump Tower? Right, exactly. And what is she doing? What is she doing for the American people to justify this huge staff that she has? Like, I think, I think we have a right to know because she isn't seen anywhere.

I don't know what she's doing. And as you said, he's got, he always has somebody else by his side kind of acting almost like a first lady. Right. used to be Ivanka. Remember when Ivanka in the first term used to show up on a lot of stuff? That's true. She was sort of like the creepy first lady daughter. But he doesn't have that anymore because Ivanka doesn't want to go to the White House and all of that. So yeah, we're going to continue

to follow and we're going to, and I think the buttons need to continue to be pushed because they're getting an unnatural reaction, which only makes us think, why? Why? Why? is this and let me ask you a question because you're better situated than i am obviously to answer this question stephen jung and other commentators or other enablers for trump said a version of leave it to the democratic party to attack a woman for doing her job it's so misogynistic are you kidding me what you what how do you see it you know you're the you're the mother of of young women you're you've been a young woman or a and are a young woman today how do you still a young woman I know, I said you're a young woman today.

How do you see that? Are we attacking Natalie Harp in this discussion? When he said that, and I thought to myself, if it was a man, would we be asking these same questions? And that's a legitimate question to ask, right? That's a legitimate question to wonder. But I don't think we're questioning, I don't think anyone's questioning her proximity. to the president, of course he's going to have AIDS around him. It's not that she's an aide.

It's not that she supports him the way others support him, like Susie Wiles, et cetera. It's that it's what she purportedly does for him, the fact that she's always around, even in times and in ways that don't seem appropriate for her position. And it's the way she has spoken to him to him and things she has written to him and things she has said about him.

It's her own behavior that I think is why people are criticizing her and Trump's behavior. I don't think it's because she's a woman. I think if there was anybody who was in that situation, people would have the same questions. Yeah. And if it was a female president and a male staffer, I'd be asking the exact same questions. We got some breaking news by MS now as we came on the air. back to my Selena and the president of the fan club scenario, it looks like Natalie Harp worked at the White House without a security clearance for more than a year

and turned down routine security clearance meetings obtained by other West Wing staffers. What does she have to hide that she didn't want to, well, look at that little footsie on the Marine One. What does she have to hide in her past that she doesn't want revealed in a traditional run-of-the-mill security clearance? And why would you allow it? Exactly. That's the bigger question. Why does she have such proximity to power without a proper security clearance? That's the question. That's the judgment issue that raises eyebrows again.

That's why people are wondering what the heck is going on there, that she is allowed. And what does she do that's so important? What special skill does she have that's so unbelievable and amazing that she should have that kind of proximity to the president? and that she should be chosen to be saved above everybody else. Start to sound a lot like fatal attraction. We'll have to continue to follow the story in MS now. Breaking it, we appreciate that.

We appreciate our audience so much, so many different ways to support what we do here. Become an audio subscriber. You're already here on Legal AF YouTube channel. You can hit the QR code at the top that'll take you right to it. And that does really help us. Otherwise, frankly, we wouldn't ask for it. Send this YouTube clip to people in your life ask them to join our audience.

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I'll hear on Legal AF at the midweek on August the 19th, 2026. Go. Happy birthday, Dad. I love you. We all love him. He's been here since day one. He has. My dad has.

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