Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Legal AF Full Episode - 12/31/2025

Episode Date: January 1, 2026

Join a special holiday night edition of Legal AF Podcast with hosts Popok and KFA, including a special guest on the front lines of fighting for the rule of law. Jack Smith’s video is released and its a knock out punch to Trump’s presidency; Trump tries to pardon Election deniers convicted of state crimes using his old High School roommate as her lawyer; and the DOJ suddenly finds another 5 MILLION lost Epstein Files. Get 30% Off your Legal AF Substack Subscription! https://michaelpopok.substack.com/holiday30off Support Our Sponsors: Armra: Head to https://tryarmra.com/legalaf or enter promo code: LEGALAF to receive 15% off your first order! Delete Me: Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to join https://deleteme.com/LEGALAF and use promo code LEGALAF at checkout. Dose Daily: Dose: Save 30% on your first month of subscription by going to https://dosedaily.co/LEGALAF or entering LEGALAF at checkout. Learn more about Michael Dougherty: https://www.michaelforag.com/ Learn more about the Popok Firm: https://thepopokfirm.com Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast Cult Conversations: The Influence Continuum with Dr. Steve Hassan: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Welcome to a special holiday edition of Legal A.F. It is New Year's Eve, Eve, or for some people in our audience, it's already New Year's Day. But we appreciate you taking time away from your friends and your family and you're celebrating or whatever you're doing to join Karen Freeman Ignifalo and Michael Popock here on Legal A.F at the midweek. We were joking, Karen, internally about, you know, sort of reporting and how many people we need and how many days off to it. And somebody wrote, and they will remain nameless. It's going to be quiet over the next 48 hours. I don't think you have to worry about any new reporting.

I'm like, okay, as soon as that person said that, the Jack Smith video and transcript got dumped on New Year's Eve, Eve, but you can't pull a fast one. It's like The Godfather, oh, you thought you'd fool the Corleone? You thought you'd catch legal A.F. And might as touch flat-footed? Forget it. we've already gone through the 250 pages of transcript, the nine hours of video.

We already have clips. We've already done reporting and hot takes on it. And our audience is there for a lot of amazing things in there. We can only do a few clips, although there are hot takes that are now running on both channels. But Jack Smith, and I really believe, Karen, it's public pressure that they even released at that, and they thought the Democrats were going to beat him to the punch now that the video has been delivered. We had to wait for, like, you know, the court reporter to deliver the transcript and the video. You and I've been there in private practice, and they got it.

I'm sure Jamie Raskin was like, if you don't, we will. And then, boom, suddenly it pops out. I didn't think we'd see the video anytime soon because even like Bill Barr and the rest of the people that have given closed-door testimony, they, we never like saw the video. But Jack Smith has been pounding the table along with his lawyers to release the video, to let him speak to the American people. at least he spoke to some humans and now we get to talk about it then we've got a special but to turn it over to you we've got a special guest people know that we're very supportive of the uh the democratic attorneys

general there's 23 of them and there might be a change in colorado somebody that karen you know well talk a little bit about our special guest today yeah michael doherty is somebody who like jack smith i started at the manhattan d's office with and we were baby DAs together. And he is one of those people also like Jack Smith, who was a superstar from the beginning. Everybody knew he was destined for greatness. And he rose through the ranks very, very quickly. He was chief of the sex crimes unit. He became an executive at the Manhattan DA's office. And he moved his family. He's got 18-year-old now, twin daughters, and his wife, Antonia, who also worked at the Manhattan DA's office, who I knew was a superstar. And they moved out to

Colorado, where he continued as a public servant prosecutor and ended up working for not only the Attorney General's office, he then ran for the Boulder DA, and he's been the Boulder District Attorney, the elected DA since 2018. He's running for Attorney General of the state of Colorado, and he's the real deal. He knows what he's doing. He's a prosecutor's prosecutor, but he cares a lot about justice. He cares a lot about people. He was trained under the same philosophy that I and Jack Smith were trained under, like Jack Smith said in his testimony today. He started it with you prosecute cases without fear or favor and you bring the right cases at the right time for the right reasons. And he's just he's really substantive and he's just a great guy to bring into the Midas

touch ecosystem. and to introduce to everybody because he's the kind of person that you want to be a public servant. He's fearless and he's substantive, really smart, and extremely ethical. So he also, he's crazy. He's like a marathon runner and triathlete and all these other things that he does. Well, I had it here is you vouch for him and you worked for him. That's about it for me. And it's a great race too because Phil Weiser, who most people, most of some people know when I went out

to Phoenix to meet with the other we interviewed 11 attorneys general who are Democrats about they just hit their 50th case filed against the Department of Justice I mean against the Trump administration about about a week ago but Phil Weiser was on one of our panels he's term limited out this is the new open seat and Phil's running for governor I'd like another attorney general to run for governor or that would be Mr. Banta from California, but that's for another day. I'm glad you're bringing them on. We'll have them on in a few minutes.

Then we're going to talk about the Epstein files. We're going to need a bigger boat, Sheriff Brody said on Jaws. They found another $4 million, $5 million. They're saying that they have $5.2 million more to go through after saying it was only a million a week ago. Just multiply that. That's $20 million. And we'll never get to the bottom of it.

That's why the Senate Democrats and the House Democrats have come out firing, asking for the Inspector General to do a review of the process and the production. And as Roe Con has said in his postings today, you know, that means they've only released less than 5% or something of the Epstein files, 100,000 pages that came out on the deadline. We'll talk more about it here on Legal A.F. Happy New Year, Karen. What are you doing for New Year's with your family? Happy New Year.

Thank you. Low key, you know, it's new. I live in New York City where it's a huge party. And tomorrow actually is going to be the inauguration of our new mayor. And they have a huge block party that's going to happen right in front of my apartment building where I live. So, and they're expecting 40, 50,000 people. So I'm actually going to attend the inauguration. I'm really excited.

And I'm going to take some video clips. we can hopefully use. And if I can, I'm going to try to get to some really interesting people and maybe interview them. That's what I'm hoping to do. Well, I'd like to see that. Are you going to the old City Hall subway? No, that's tonight at midnight. And that's really, that's when he's actually, because in New York, the change in the guard happens on January 1. So at midnight, you get sworn in. And that's just a very small thing at midnight to make the transition official. The public one, you're going to the bigger one. I'm going to the public one tomorrow. Yeah. So I read that Letitia James is swearing him in at the subway one.

Yes. Yeah, this is, you guys should look this up. This is the old subway stop under City Hall that's now ceremonial, amazing artwork and freezes. And I mean, from the 1920s chandeliers. I mean, is this what the subway was like coming? Yeah, yeah, no, it's incredible. I've actually seen it. They had to close it down 50, 60, 80 years ago out of a long time ago because it's, it's

It's there's a curve that if they kept that subway going the way the trains are now there's too big of a gap between it would be dangerous between the door and the and where people get off yeah there's a phone look at that photo it's it's absolutely exceptional I heard that's something from a movie that's like from a pan's labyrinth movie or something and and I heard though it's still like a turnaround spot for the sixth train so it's true it's true yeah they turn around there yeah so it's still used. It's just you can't get off there because they deemed it a safety hazard a long time ago. I'm jealous, but I'll, I know you'll make good on your promise to take good photos. My bucket list is to get to interview Bernie Sanders. That's what I really want to.

He's swearing it at the public. Yes. So I'm sure I won't be able to get to him, but that's if I had one wish, that's who it is. Yeah. Well, okay. Talk to Midas. Maybe that can happen. Who knows? Yeah, I'm trying. I'm trying. So with that buoyant atmosphere in the air, you know, God, although I did remember four years ago, God, it seemed so much longer ago, when Mayor Adams was standing at the ball at Times Square to get sworn in, that should have told us everything we needed to know. That he was standing like with, not Dick Clark, who's the guy that took over, Ryan Seacrest or whatever, getting sworn in with the picture of his mother. I'm like, oh boy, here we go. Exactly. All right, but we have a very

hopeful period here with some amazing people getting sworn. in. We've got a new governor in New Jersey, in Mikey Cheryl. We've got a new governor in Virginia in in Governor Spanberger. We've got the new mayor. You know, it just got a new mayor in the city of Miami, who's being, who will be sworn in Eileen Higgins, who is the first woman mayor of the city of Miami. We need a woman mayor in New York, right? Well, we'll see. Eventually. Eventually, for sure. Sure. Yeah. Did you think I was talking about you? You know, to hesitate.

Well, you never know, exactly. Oh, are we breaking news? No, no, no, no, no, no. I just, every once in a while, I think about, would there ever be a public service job that would tempt me to go back into public service, but no, that's, I don't think so. Police commissioner? You know, I'm good. I'm happy. I'm happy being, you know, doing what I'm doing. Right. All right.

But mayor of New York City is an incredible job. Salty, weren't you thinking we're about to break the news? I'm sure he had an asset ready. No, no, all good, all good. I did my time in public service. I'm very happy. You certainly did. All right, let's be it at doing their time in public service.

Jack Smith, remember him, special counsel, only special counsel in history not to be able to report to the American public the results of his investigation. Seriously, you know, special counsel for Nixon, special counsel for Joe Biden in the stupid document thing in his garage, Robert Herr, you know, John Durham, the multiple ones against Donald Trump and people related to him, you know, from Robert Mueller, etc., etc., and Jack Smith never gets to speak. And he's been trying to speak to the American people, gave some interviews abroad with Andrew Weissman that pissed off Donald Trump, apparently. And then Jim Jordan, who thinks very highly of himself, thought that this would be a good matchup between Jim Jordan, who went to law school apparently, but never took the bar, and Jack Smith, one of the greatest lawyers, one of the greatest prosecutors of all time, and that this would not be a tremendous mismatch when the video was finally released.

And so we have nine hours of video. It's up on legal AF substack for our paid members. We've got the transcript, if you're really interested, also up on legal AF substack. And now we've had some time to digest it. And I thought, Karen, we would kick it off the way that Jack Smith kicked it off with a clip from his opening statement that he led off the, the testimony on the um on the 17th of december in the uh committee on the judiciary in the rayburn building and room 2237 with his his lawyer sitting next to him let's play the clip of his opening

statement for nearly three decades i've been a career prosecutor i've served during both republican and democratic administrations and i've been guided by those principles and every role I've held. I continued to honor those principles when I was appointed to serve as special counsel in November of 2022. The decision to bring charges against President Trump was mine, but the basis for those charges rests entirely with President Trump and his actions,

as alleged in the indictments returned by grand juries in two different districts. Our investigation developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that President Trump engaged in a criminal scheme to overturn the results of the 2020 election and to prevent the lawful transfer of power. Our investigation also developed powerful evidence that showed that President Trump willfully retained highly classified documents after he left office in January of 2021, storing them

at his social club, including in a ballroom and a bathroom. He then repeatedly tried to obstruct justice to conceal his continued retention of those documents. Powerful opening statement, right? Take away from you, Karen, from what you've, for the reporting that you've seen so far, on what Smith accomplished and what Jordan thought he was trying to accomplish. Yeah, so what was really interesting. So I actually, I'm almost halfway through. I've watched it on double speed because it's nine hours.

So, you know, if you put it on two times the speed, you can watch it quicker. It's incredible, and I'm so glad they released it and that we're able to watch it. And what really struck me about the beginning and his opening statement was, first of all, he is the same Jack Smith that he's always been. He is just a good person, a public servant. He cares about the people he works with. He said over and over again how he's there because he thought that the people he worked with, especially the FBI agents who are the good guys, the public service.

are getting vilified and unfairly attacked, and that when you attack the good guys in life, who are you left with? You're going to deter people from coming to public service. So he really talked about his motivation for coming forward and for wanting to testify publicly. Jim Jordan wanted to make it seem like he was there for bad reasons.

And Jim Jordan was questioning him and talking to him and asking him to agree with things things that Jack Smith had no problem agreeing with, like principles of prosecution and ethics and things like that. And the big takeaway I had was he comes across as being totally forthcoming, wanting to answer as many questions as he can. He was made it clear that he is, he can't talk about the Mara Lago documents case because there's an injunction from Judge Eileen Cannon saying he can't. And so he was, honest about that when he couldn't remember something. He would say he can't remember, but not in an

evasive way. He would say things like, even from somebody who was from the Republican Party who was clearly attacking him or trying to do Trump's bidding for him, he would say, well, is it true that this happened on this date? And he'd say, I don't have a recollection of exact dates, but if you say so, I take it as true. Like, you know, he wasn't combative. He wasn't trying to only kind of talk to one side and not the other. He was really trying to answer questions honestly. And so I highly recommend people watching it, at least watching part of it, again, do it on double speed because it takes a lot of time to do it. But you get a real good sense of how just earnest and honest he is. And it's such a contrast to when you hear anyone in the Trump administration speak about

anything, how they just attack you and fight with you and gaslight you and talk about facts that aren't true, also known as lies. And he's just totally the opposite. And in some ways, it's just such a breath of fresh air because we need more of this and more of people who just want to tell the truth and speak truths of power. The one thing I found really interesting was when you listen, almost every single Republican person who questioned him spent a really long time on the fact that they subpoenaed records, these call records, no content, just who called who on what date of that two-day period from, or I think it was even like 48 hours or 24 hours on January 6th, just to kind of get a sense of what was going on when Trump was not calling

off the truth and when he was fomenting violence, et cetera. And they're like obsessed with the fact that you can subpoena those records. Again, no content. content, no nothing. And so they're clearly self-interested, not caring about the American people, not caring about the truth, and really just wanting to talk about themselves because, God forbid, someone, subpoenas, just their records of who they called. But I thought Jack Smith did a really great job of fighting back. You know, when they asked him about, you know, interested parties who they spoke with and building a case against biased people, you know, with biased people against Donald Trump, Jack Smith fought back and said, this case was built by Republicans. This case was

built by allies. This is information that we got from people who are Trump's natural allies and from hard evidence. And so that was excellent, I thought. And another thing I thought was really excellent is they tried to say, oh, Trump has a First Amendment right to question an election. And again, Jack Smith was like, the First Amendment's not absolute. You know, he didn't say this, but, you know, you're not allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater. You're not allowed to basically lie, cheat and steal your way and defraud people. Yes, of course you can question it. Of course you can say things and you can bring court cases like you did and you can say things publicly.

But what Trump did is next level. And he made it very clear that he would have prosecuted under the same facts and the same law, Barack Obama, Joe Biden and anybody else. This was not political. And it was just a really, I thought, a really great. great testimony on his part, especially just how he handled him. Yeah, I'm going to show a couple more clips here. The opening statement we've seen for him, he made it clear.

He's angered by the fact that people who are public servants who are just doing their job and the Department of Justice and the FBI have been attacked. He said the person who occupies, you know, the highest position in the land, has called for me to be jailed. I mean, he's called, right? Talking about himself for a moment. He said that this was not him going in to a prosecution with a pre-determined outcome of finding a crime against Donald Trump.

Let's remember that despite Jim Jordan saying that Jack Smith is some sort of zealot, Democratic zealot that was going to pin a crime on Donald Trump regardless, was jacksmith wasn't even in the country jack smith had been out of the country for a number of years at the hague prosecuting war crimes because and that's why merrick garland picked him so that he could not be attacked for being political because i don't know what his politics are i don't know he's registered independent i forget at the time what happened but this is a guy who is out of the mainstream out of the media world and limelight doing a doing his job as a prosecutor in

overseas. That's why he was brought in. He said it wasn't anything other than evidence, not politics, that dictated the outcome. And for those that attacked or found nefarious the timing of the indictments, Jack Smith said the timing had to do with the evidence. And when we were ready to indict, because under the Department of Justice Manual and the rules of federal prosecution, you don't go after and bring a case as against a president on his way out who's now campaigning to come back as president unless you got the goods. You have to be a, you have to have probable cause to indict that the person committed a crime and you can sustain that conviction through appeal. But Jack Smith went further in the testimony. He said I had

beyond a reasonable doubt evidence. In other words, I would have won on the election interference case, and I had credible evidence to the Mar-a-Lago case. In fact, we have a clip on just that point. Let's play it. You just made some pretty definitive statements about your belief that President Trump was guilty of these charges. Is that correct?

Yes, I believe we had proof beyond a reasonable doubt in both cases. Doesn't the Justice Manual prohibit prosecutors from asserting that a defendant is of something before a jury makes a determination? When a case is pending, yes. So, Jack... Okay, so to distract from getting schooled by Jack Smith, Jim Jordan came in there with a pre-disposed approach,

and his was to use the toll records issue, as you alluded to, to try to argue that there was some sort of conspiracy. And the problem with that is, as Jack Smith corrected him, he says, I didn't get a wiretap. I didn't get a pen register. I didn't intervene. There wasn't a guy in a van. I mean, he didn't say this part. There wasn't a guy in a van with headphones listening to conversations for members of Congress. They had every right to follow the evidence and to see if Donald Trump was using members of Congress who would have been outside their speech and debate protection to

interfere with the peaceful transfer of power and slow down certification to give Donald Trump more time to do whatever he was doing, commit crimes according to Jack Smith. And so to go get effectively the phone bills for members of Congress and senators that only lists phone number, phone number originated, phone number called, and duration of call without more is not an invasion of privacy, and it is not an improper use of toll records. What Jim Jordan's pissed off about is that he didn't know because there was no policy that required it that they were having their phone bills pulled

and that they were under investigation in that way. They weren't a target of the investigation. They weren't prosecuted or indicted. In fact, there's an email that Jim Jordan made a big deal out of during the cross-examination of Jack Smith, in which he said, oh, you know, I wasn't even going to be indicted along with the rest of them, right? That's a proper use of prosecutorial discretion. You're just not used to it under the current Department of Justice.

Let's play one more clip of this losing battle between the House Judiciary Committee and Jack Smith. Let's play another clip. The timing and speed of our work reflects the strength of the evidence and our confidence that we would have secured convictions at trial. If asked whether to prosecute a former president based on the same facts today, I would do so regardless of whether that president was a Republican or a Democrat. So, Karen, what do you think now that the public has finally heard from Jack Smith directly, although not the way we would have wanted it to, which would have been at the time in a public hearing with questions being asked by others in Congress? What do you think, the rabbi-why was this important that this finally came to light? even though on a holiday day. And what do you think the impact is going to be moving forward?

Yeah, look, first of all, just the timing of the release of this shouldn't be lost on anyone. This was released on New Year's Eve to try to bury it. The whole world is talking about 2025 and feel-good stories and anything in the news is all the reporters, everybody you could tell are sort of taking today off because they're not refreshing new stories very much. It's very much a, like, you know, stuff that they had in the can before

so everyone can take the day off or the evening off and focus on New Year's Eve and party. So they're burying this. That's why this was released today, number one. Number two, I think that it was interesting because Jack Smith said in no uncertain terms that I believe that Donald Trump is going to come after me if he can. He's going to try to come after me if he can and try to seek vengeance on me.

And I thought that was a little chilling. And I think what he's basically saying is, I have nothing to hide. I didn't do anything wrong. I'm proud of what I did. Go ahead. Anything you dish out, I can take it. There's no one tougher than Jack Smith. He can take it.

And he's not going to find anything on Jack Smith. And so go for it. And so, you know, I think he was just basically, He was calm. He was cool. He was collected. He was getting the rest, setting the record straight. Because again, the Trump administration loves to spin lies. They love to mischaracterize. And I think the record is very clear here. And it's, people are going to be hard pressed to find anything that is going to be able to be proven as as false, as political, as unethical, as anything other than actually exactly the right thing. But I also think, the history books needed to be, you know, look, he was invited to testify, right? So they asked for this. And now there's a sworn record for the history books because Donald Trump buried this, right? He's pardoned everyone under the sun. The cases had to be dismissed. And he's probably going to, you know, who knows, I shouldn't say this. Who knows what's going to happen to all the records and

the files, right? I mean, there's no clue about whether they'll be preserved or to what extent. And now we have a record from the person who led it, from the person who conducted the investigation of what happened, what didn't happen, and it really amplified his report and put a lot of context into not just the what happened, but how they investigated the case, how they prosecuted the case, how they came to the conclusions they came to, and really how this case stood out differently than any other time when a president, for example, questioned elections. That's one of the things that he was questioned about is, well, what about, you know, what about this, this president who questioned an election? And Jack Smith would say, yeah, okay, they questioned an election, but no one ever did.

And then he would list out all the things that Trump did that were criminal and why he deserved to be prosecuted. So I think for no other reason than just history, this is just an amazing, incredible thing that was done. And in some ways, I think, backfired for the Republicans because now we have a full of record of it. Right. Well, thank you all for joining us on our special New Year's Eve, Eve edition of Legal A.F. We wouldn't want to let our audience down and try not to miss a beat.

And we've got a special guest interview that will be coming up after the ad break and our sponsor break of a dear friend of Karen Friedman McNifalo who's running for the Attorney General position in Colorado, which is going to be vacant because of term limits. And I think you're going to want to hear from this really amazing prosecutor. There he is, Michael Dowardy. And speaking of ways to help on New Year's Eve, as long as you're here, I was pleased to wake up this morning to find that Legal A.F. Substack was number one rising in U.S. politics on Substack.

And to celebrate that, I'm extending for another day until tomorrow at midnight, a 30% off sale on Legal A.F. Substack annual membership brings it down to about $6.77 cents a month. And to answer the question, people ask, yes, that's where independent media is living right now on substack. And it's a way to show your support. It's a way to do some early voting to show you like our content. We're doing our part. We're putting up 10, 12 pieces a day of original content up on Legal AF substack. I'm doing now two lives a day, 12 o'clock Eastern Time and 7.45 p.m. Eastern time. Two live reports you can only get on legal AF substack. And of course, since we last altogether, we crossed over the one million threshold on legal AF YouTube.

That's a free membership. No outside investors, no paywall. This is the way to support the legal AF community and make sure that our First Amendment rights are protected. and we're not chased by the Trump administration off the air, so to speak. I'm glad you're all here. Help us with the next build to $2 million in the links below. And you can join LegalAF Substack and LegalAF, the YouTube channel. And then, of course, we've got our pro-democracy sponsors,

some of which have been with us for the very, very beginning. So let's take our break for that. When we come back, we're going to have the Attorney General candidate for Colorado, Michael Dowardy. Are you feeling sluggish? Bloaded. Not like yourself. Life bombards us.

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the potentially, hopefully, the future attorney general, of the state of Colorado, Michael Doherty. Michael and I worked together at the Manhattan DA's office. We were baby DAs together. We learned and trained under the same people. And he has since gone on to do incredible things in the state of Colorado. He's currently the district attorney for the county of Boulder. And in that capacity, he's prosecuted some of the most high-profile cases in the country.

He successfully prosecuted and tried the mass murderer from the King's Super supermarket in Boulder. He's now prosecuting the Pearl Street Firebomber who attacked the Jewish community members on June 1st of this year. And he headed up an investigation into the devastating martial fire that destroyed communities and 1,100 homes. He runs, he does these 100-mile trail run races. I mean, the guy has more hours in the day than anyone I know. because in addition to being the district attorney of Boulder County, he is running for Attorney General and he's standing up for democracy. And today, there was so much in the news about Colorado. We had Donald Trump vetoing a bill that was going to bring clean water to southeast Colorado just to retaliate against Lauren Boberts calling for the Epstein files to be released.

We have him pardoning the trying to fake pardon because she was prosecuted in the state. The clerk who tried to, who essentially smuggled someone in to make a copy of the voting machine and was not supposed to do that and, you know, claiming that the election was stolen and he's trying to fake pardon her. So there's a lot going on in Colorado today, and we thought, who better to have on the show? But Michael Doherty, who worked with Jack Smith like I did, and he also is in the news today. So I thought, what a great person to have on. And to introduce, really, to the Midas community, because Michael is someone to watch, someone to get to know, and someone who's going to really continue this fight against this authoritarian regime that we're in and fight in Colorado. So Michael, welcome to Legal A-F. It's such an honor to have you on the show.

Well, thank you so much for having me on. And I appreciate that very kind introduction. And Karen, it is great to see you after all our years working together. And you left out one important part, which is you and my supervisor in the sex crimes unit. So I've learned a lot from you. And we handled some really difficult, meaningful cases together and helping victims and survivors through the criminal justice process after they've been sexually assaulted. So it's great to see you again and wonderful to be on with you and your team. Thank you. Yeah. So Popak, I know, I know, Michael. Why don't you throw all the first question to him? Oh, you're just here to do the introduction. No, no, I can. I just figured you're jumping at the bit. I do. No, no. I mean,

this is great. I mean, and it fits well with sort of our ethos here to try to brief our audience about things that matter, not just at the federal level, but at the state level. I just had Rob Banta, the California Attorney General on a few days ago. And the 23 Democratic Attorneys General, which you hope to join and replace a Democratic Attorney General whose term limited out but running for governor, it told us that we just hit a milestone. 50-50 suits have been filed by the Attorneys General, Democratic Attorney General,

none of them, none Republican. I'd like to just say Attorneys General, but I can't. They're all Democrat. it's a milestone. They never thought they would have to reach as part of the 400 or so cases against the Trump administration. But he said, we are fired up and ready to file the next 50 and the next 50 and the next 50 until this lawless Department of Justice and Trump administration is brought to heal. As you're running for office in Colorado, how much do you get into? Like, what do you want the voters to know about your agenda?

whether you have an agenda, what you're going to do for the people of the state of Colorado and beyond vis-a-vis the Trump administration, along with Colorado's in own interests. Well, having left the Manhattan District Attorney's Office where Karen and I worked together to come work at the Colorado Attorney General's Office, I know firsthand the impact and importance of that office on everyday lives for people throughout Colorado. But right now, everyone is aware of the role of the Attorney General. I think 15 years ago, if you ask people, what does the Attorney General do? Often the answer was limited, if any. But right now, people recognize that the attorneys general across the country, A.G. Banta, Phil Weiser and the state

of Colorado, and others are the only thing standing between Donald Trump and the rule of law being violated every single day. So we see the Constitution being violated and people being harmed, whether being Colorado, California, or elsewhere. It's the responsibility of the Attorney General to stand and fight for the rule of law and to protect our democracy. And those lawsuits, the number of those lawsuits is actually unfortunate, unfortunate in that they've been absolutely necessary and required, and you need people with experience, the ability and the fight to stand up and protect our democracy right now. Terran?

Michael, tell us what you think about this veto today, and tell us about that issue. Well, what's particularly terrible about the veto is it was a bipartisan bill, and how often do you hear that word bipartisan in today's Congress? So the idea that it passed the House and the Senate with really strong majorities in both, and it's a bipartisan bill that's designed to bring water to a rural part of Colorado that's really suffering. As you pointed out at the start, Karen, Lauren Bobert spoke out against the president's veto. And I think that really highlights how surprising the veto was, and also the clear line that's being drawn between the decision of veto the bill

and the president being angry and taking vengeful actions against the state of Colorado, out, in part perhaps because the conviction of Tina Peters, who's a political crony of his, and he's demanded her release. But the idea that we're talking about the president of the United States, taking action against the state, because he's unhappy with the state and some other respects, to me, defies logic, but it absolutely requires a response. I think it's also because of the Epstein files, but, you know, because she spoke out against that. Talk about the Tina Peters case.

Tell us about that. So Tina Peters, in a lot of ways, symbolizes some of the things we're seeing in this country right now. Tina Peters was a county clerk in Santa Clara, responsible for managing elections in Mesa County, which is a largely Republican jurisdiction, and that matters in a moment. But she was caught taking someone in and giving people access and engaging in, then, an attempt to influence public officials who were investigating the case and responsible for the overall election integrity in Mesa County. When that was discovered, the Republican District Attorney Dan Rubinstein did the absolute right thing. He realized it was a possible crime. He launched an investigation. He called

the Attorney General Phil Weiser to ask Phil Weiser's office for assistance on this large, complex, major case. So he had a Republican district attorney and Democratic AG uniting and pursuing justice together. And as you know, in the criminal justice system, that's exactly how it should work. It shouldn't be defined by party affiliation or politics. To me and my career as a prosecutor, it's always been about doing justice and doing the right thing without fear or. or favor or any concern about political affiliation or political impact. And that's what D.A. Rubinstein and A.G. Weiser did. They prosecuted the case, their two offices together, and they did that by presenting it to the

grand jury in Mesa County. So again, largely Republican jurisdiction, choosing to indict the Republican County Club. The case then went to trial, which was convicted by a jury, again, in a largely Republican jurisdiction, the state prosecution in state court. which is why the president actually does not have any legal authority to issue a pardon or take any action. Shortly after he took office for the second time, Donald Trump demanded her release and threatened Colorado with harsh measures. That was his quote, if she would not release immediately. I feel like that's something I would have read as a kid growing up in the paper about some third world country, but never about the United States, that a president is demanding the release of someone

who's a political crony. To me, that's the height of public corruption. And the age of and the district attorney both have stood strong and saying she should not be released. The president then issued a pardon for her, and as Karen pointed out, the president does not have the legal authority to issue partons in state cases. So that parting has had, in essence, no impact whatsoever, except once again undermine the confidence and trust in the justice system and to cause from page news. But it's my expectation that she'll remain in state prison where she belongs for the consequences for her actions because she's sentenced to nine years in state prison after being convicted at trial. I was bored today, so I read Donald Trump's high school

roommates filing Mr. Tickerton. This is the lawyer, the lawyer of last resort for Donald Trump. When nobody will file for him, it is crazy crackpot theories. He hires or Ticketon volunteers. Literally, they were they were roommates in a military academy. And he practices, law near me here in Miami. I'm not quite sure what kind of law. I've never seen it. I've been doing this for 35 years. I've never seen a brief that was filed in an appellate court, at least by somebody who's a practicing lawyer that cited, in an appellate court, cited absolutely nothing to the record, no, just ticketing about the big lie and fraud in the election with no citations, ticket in on the civil war and casualties. And like he was watching the, he felt like during the history

channel while he was dictating the brief. I don't know what the Civil War, and that George Washington in the Whiskey Rebellion would have pardoned somebody like Tina Peters. I think George Washington would have hanged somebody like Tina Peters, certainly a misinterpretation of the case and of Washington's powers. Again, not one case cited, let alone Colorado case law, but my favorite part, Michael, is where, talk about a rookie mistake. At the end, what he asked one of your appellate courts to do is two things, although I don't know how he gets past the first one. He says he wants the court to declare that they do not have jurisdiction

or power over the appeal. And in the same breath says, and let my lady out of jail. Like, okay, which is it? They have power in jurisdiction or they're going to let your lady out of jail. I don't understand how they can make, though. I don't understand how those two things can exist together at the exact same time. Did you see this brief? I did, and I think it's clear to your point that they're throwing everything at the wall

and hoping something sticks. And at the very least, I think they're hoping to keep the president's attention focused on this in an effort to leverage her out of state prison. And again, she was convicted by a jury and sentenced by a judge who recognized. When the judge spoke in sentence, he talked about the fact that she engaged in fraudulent conduct for which she showed no remorse whatsoever, and that state prison was the right and appropriate outcome for her and the right consequence for her actions.

And I think that's so important that the rule of law be upheld right now. And the president issuing this pardon in a state case defies logic, violates the law, and should have no legal effect. Talk to the, as we round out here. This is your opportunity. You've had so many opportunities to speak to the people of Colorado about your being their chief. law enforcement officer for the people, the people's attorney. That's one thing I came away with

in interviewing your future colleagues at DAG, the Democratic Attorney's General, how many times they said and believe it's in the fiber of their being that they're going to be the people's attorney. Talk about what it means for you to be that in Colorado. And what is it, if you can have an elevator speech to the people in Colorado voting for you, what would you tell them about why you should be the attorney, the next attorney general for the great state of Colorado. By the way, for those that want to help, Michael, we got a link below related to his website and fundraising. Go ahead. Well, thank you for that. And thank you for the question. I will say this is the greatest test of our democracy in my entire lifetime. This country has survived other tests

in our history, but only because people stood up and fought for what was right. That's why I'm running for attorney general. I've been serving the public throughout my entire career as a prosecutor Manhattan District Attorney's Office and a leader there before coming to Colorado to work for the Attorney General's Office. So I know firsthand the impact and importance of that office and I'm passionate about it. And having been an elected DA for the last eight years, I know how important it is to be able to lead a large law office through times of crisis. And indeed, we are living through a time of crisis in this country right now.

And for us to weather this storm, we need the right people standing up and fighting with every ounce of our being and doing it with integrity to defend our democracy and the rule of law while also restoring trust and our democracy. And that's why I'm running for Attorney General. And as Karen pointed out in that introduction, I've had the responsibility and I view it as an honor of handling incredibly difficult and serious cases from my community, from the Marshall Fire to the King Super's mass murder,

the fire bombing upon Jewish community members in Boulder, and each time coming out on the other side of those crises with the right out which is justice for the victims and for the community. And that's what I'm going to do as Attorney General, stand and fight for the rule of law because the rule of law is the only thing we have right now at this test of our democracy. Michael, that's chilling. It's amazing.

Thank you so much for saying that. What can people do generally? What can the average person do generally in this fight? Well, a couple things. If they're willing to support the campaign, that would be a tremendous help. I'm working hard to get the word out across Colorado, so people are aware of my experience and the ability to hit the ground running on day one. be a learn-on-the-job experience. I mean, if you picture going to the airport and you have two

pilots to choose from and one's been flying in storms for 30 years and the other's never flown before, you want to get on the plane with someone who's been doing it for 30 years. And that's what I provide with my experience and the ability to fight for the rule of law and to stand up and fight for justice. So supporting the campaign, volunteering with the campaign, that'd be terrific. But I would also highlight, right now we have our nonprofits in our communities throughout the United States under attack. So I was at a nonprofit organization earlier today. They've had their funding cut by the Trump administration. So also supporting our nonprofits to volunteer work and contributions as well. So each of us has a ripple effect on those around us. Each of us has an impact on the

community. And right now, for me, it means running for Attorney General. But for each one of us, it may feel overwhelming at times what's coming at us every day in the news and every day from the Trump administration. But it's more important than ever that we stand up and have positive impact and fight for what's right. Michael Dardy, running for the, what is going to be the open seat to be the next Colorado Attorney General on the Democratic side. I was only kidding when I said, what would be your elevator pitch? I should have said your stairwell pitch now that I realize where you're, look at the, look

at this leadership and can-do attitude of this candidate that came on legal A.F from a stairwell, reminds me of Karen Freemanick to blow your friend we we appreciate you we'll do everything we can in our power and i'm sure our audience will too to help get you elected uh and help contribute to the defense of our democracy and to and to be a supporter of all things related to the people of the state of colorado thank you for joining us karen thank you so much for bringing them on with us today michael come back again anytime we'd love to have you thank you for having me on next time i won't be in a stairwell but i will always uh have the honor anytime i'm on will be an honor to talk with you both. I really appreciate what you're doing and you're calling attention to these

issues. And I was running between meetings, but being able to join you today is an opportunity I did not want to pass up. So thank you so much. Send a photo of your rig and how you have such a perfect, a perfect propped up laptop. I want to know. Anyway, thank you for doing it. It's probably on top of like an upside down trash can, which I have done many times. That's impressive. Thank you all. Thank you. You'll see you. We'll see you on the next time. All right, Karen, that was great. Thank you for bringing on. Now I see why you're a big supporter of his and now, by extension, of course, we are too. Let's get him elected to replace Phil Weiser, who's now running for governor in the great state of Colorado. Let's round out. We're in the

home stretch here. Let's talk about the Epstein files. Another dump Todd Blanche in the Department of Justice, which by that I mean, wink, wink. Donald Trump writing the social media post for the Department of Justice thought nobody would notice on New Year's Eve, Eve, what's another five million, five million documents, which really means 20 million? I mean, with the Trump administration, you just have to multiply everything by four. And it's also not five, it's not five million pages, right? Each document has multiple pages. So we're talking a billion. You know, we're talking many, many multiples of that of just pages of stuff to go through. So eight days ago, our, our colleague, um, uh, Ben Micella,

going through the 100,000 pages we did get, which represents like 5% or less of the Epstein disclosure that was supposed to be done by the 19th of December by Congressional Act signed by Donald Trump. He says, well, how could they only have 70,000 or 700,000 pages left when I have an email here from the U.S. Attorney's Office in New York about the Maxwell prosecution between an assistant U.S. attorney and some contractor that says 1.2 million pages or documents are in that.

What about that file? 12 hours later, we have the social media post. The Department of Justice says, we just discovered in the Southern District of New York. You just discovered? You mean Midas Touch just discovered? The 1.2 million files, we're going to be delayed everybody. And we're like, okay. And as Ben said with me recently, it's not going to be a million.

It's going to be multiple hard drives that they haven't located. How can you ever trust the word that they say? And right on time, it gets leaked and then a social media post that now they think it's $5.2 million and they want the public to feel sorry for them because they got to work around the clock during the holidays, pulling in 400 more lawyers. That's the original post. That's from nine days ago. They got 400 more lawyers.

They've got to pull in from Florida, New York, and National Security. like we should feel sorry for them and it's all hands on deck Todd Blanche says as if he's gonna be there and Pam Bondi's gonna be there you know all right what okay so the Democrats are her hair is on fire again you got Roke Rok Kana who said are you effing kidding me this is my paraphrase you got 5% or less of the documents who have been produced on time the Senate Democrats you know led by Sheldon White House and Senator Blumenthal they've come out with, we want the Inspector General for the Department of Justice and FBI, well, that's, yeah,

there's Rob Garcia, to get on top of this and look at the production, the process, and make sure it's transparent, and why are things just being found now? Who's in charge over here? Now, I will say one thing. The Department of Justice is not the right agency, but they are the ones to be producing documents like this. They're not built for this. This is not their thing. Sure, in a case, they'll have to produce something. But to go through tens of millions of documents round the clock, and I got one last comment, I'll turn it over to you. Just to show you this is all a charade to slow this down. Where were the complaints by the Department of Justice FBI or Donald Trump when the bill that was passed, the Epstein Transparency Act, had a 30-day timer in it? I didn't hear

one complaint, 30 days, are you kidding me? Well, that's outrageous. No, because they'd already spent March and April and May round the clock with FBI agents looking through the documents trying to find Donald Trump documents. So they felt relatively confident they could make it in 30 days until they figured out, it's not like we missed the, we only have the tip of the iceberg. They missed the iceberg. But on purpose, it's because they're not motivated or qualified to be searching for these documents. They don't really want to do it. They're not built for it. They lost 5,000 people from their organization. Can you imagine an organization, Karen, that loses 5,000 people that aren't replaced in 11 months and then has to do this? What's your

takeaway about this as our final segment? I mean, first of all, it goes to show when people like Pam Bondi have said that she's reviewed the files. It makes you wonder what files. did she review in the Epstein files? And she didn't even know half of them existed, right? So they're just discovering all these files that existed in the investigation. And look, the Department of Justice is used to sweeping huge, complex cases

that have terabytes, multiple terabytes worth of discovery that they have to turn over to the defense. They know how to do this. They can do this. But frankly, they've lost so many of the people who are the excellent prosecutors Maureen Comey, for one, who was the lead prosecutor on the Gillane Maxwell case, who, if you hadn't fired her because her last name's Comey, there's certainly no substantive

reason to fire her, because she was, by all accounts, is an excellent, excellent prosecutor with a great reputation, who also had a relationship with the Epstein victims and who could be sensitive to them and what their needs are and what their desires are. But they fire her for no good reason. And so one of the people who had the most institution knowledge is gone. And there's there's a lot of people who either aren't familiar with it or who aren't going to touch it with the 20-foot poll or who are just people who are new hires by Donald Trump. I mean, they're going to enlist 400 more prosecutors. That's fine. And they'll do a good job at going through stuff, I'm sure. I still have faith in prosecutors at the Department of Justice,

especially the line prosecutors. But they don't know anything about the case substantively. They don't what means what and what's important to what because they're just going to be looking for God only knows what. And so I really do think that it's such a shame. You're going to see a lot of mistakes made. And frankly, more than anything, I really, really hope if any mistakes are made, they aren't ones that negatively affect the Epstein victims who have really, I think, are, I'm worried about. And I'm worried about potentially their, you know, the retribution that goes on in this administration against people who have spoken out against, you know, anyone close to Trump or anyone in a position of power that's close to Trump, I just really hope that they, their

perspectives are handled carefully and gingerly and really that they do it well. Because I just don't know who's doing that in the Trump administration. So hopefully the people who they bring on in the Department of Justice to do this, we'll be able to do that. But like you said, they're going to find more documents. They're going to find more things because nobody knows what's going on here. And again, I just don't understand how they're finding things now

when we've been reassured that they've gone through the files, they've gone through the documents, et cetera. So this is to be determined. But I just think it's the very tip of the iceberg. And I look forward. to seeing what comes next, because finally, maybe, maybe we'll get some transparency and not just a bunch of pages that are mostly blacked out.

Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, the people that are looking at are not people that are, I mean, they're qualified as in the Department of Justice apparently, they're national security there. They're in the captured Southern District of Florida office run by Jason Reading Kenyones. They're in Jay Clayton's office in the Southern District of New York. They're offering them bounties of,

extra vacation time for putting in three to four hours a day to look at a thousand pages or a thousand documents i mean yeah i've handled large i don't know about yeah maybe million yeah millions of millions of documents there's different ways there's AI there's databases there's platforms there's you bring in uh you can't do it here but you bring in uh you know uh temporary lawyers and paralegals you know uh and that type of thing but it just shows a complete lack of good faith on the part of the Department of Justice because they're not moving heaven and earth to make it happen. They're not, nobody's properly managing this with any leadership abilities because all those people have left the government. And so it's left with,

you know, like if I was doing a large production when I was a younger lawyer, which is what you do when you're a younger lawyer in big firms, you know, you'd sit down with a piece of paper and you'd be like, okay, where are all the potential locations for documents? Where would they be? And this is back when they were documents, not really even electronic. You could say, oh, in this office, in this matter, about this matter, and this hard drive, and that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We all knew sitting here, there was a case against Galane Maxwell. It had a football filled worth of documents. Where are they? You know, it took us to point that out that there was. was a case that was being prepared by Maureen Comey, as you pointed out, for Epstein before he

unalived himself or whatever the phrase is. Where are they? There was a prosecution and an investigation in the Southern District of Florida. Where are they? There are IRS documents. There are Postal Service, Postal Inspector documents. There are subpoena response documents. There are FBI search warrant and execution of search warrant documents. I mean, you have like a spreadsheet. And you check the who's doing this there i mean it's a complete brain dead organization it's a dangerous combination lawless immoral unethical and brain dead that's a that is a terrible law firm by the way the law firm of unethical immoral uh brain dead you know and incompetent and that's what we're watching but i feel for the survivors be lisa phillips has joined uh to do regular work on legal

She's one of the leaders of the Epstein Survivor Movement. And, you know, there's another thing that Trump is worried about. Many states, including California tomorrow, opened their window for filing civil lawsuits, civil lawsuits against predators and people who abused these women, now girls, now women, and the rest. California's got a two-year window opening tomorrow. And I've heard on good authority that we're going to be. be shocked with some of the filings that may be coming out of the Epstein matter is Donald

Trump continuing to cover up as he told Marjorie Taylor Green for his quote-unquote friends so that they don't get sued so that and what I said in a recent hot take is states like California should be extending their window to match every day that the Epstein files are delayed beyond December 19th as ordered by the court they want to play a game they want to wait a month extend the deadline to file the lawsuit a month and so on six months six months and match them because i i'm sure that's on his mind about protecting his people from getting sued protecting the the rich and powerful predators again by donald trump so anyway you and i and midas and legal a half will continue to follow those things uh everybody in our community

thank you for making 2025 despite all of it because of all of it such a successful result for Legal A.F. and its ecosystem, the millions of people that have come here, Legal AF YouTube channel is going to hit 500 million views of its work, the podcast, LegalAF, the podcast, regularly in the top 50, 75, 25 of various charts that matter. My new intersection podcast also bouncing around between 20 and 50 on YouTube. The substack that we've built in the last year, with 125,000 people, over 1,000 people becoming paid members off of my sale, my promo sale in the last couple of days. This is all a testament and just the volume of content, you know, Ben's volume of content over on Midas and I join them when I can. Legal AF, 12 videos a day. You know, we're talking about 17, 18,

20 hours of content per day just to keep up with the Trump administration and bring them to heal. and that is all because of our audience and I just if I give everybody a hug I would and I'll leave it all this way then I'll turn it over you for the last word we will overcome the rogue deprave Trump administration together there's no greater title that you can hold in America than citizen and join together the way that we are and banded together the way that we are through my attention legal a.F we can do great things it starts at the midterms 435 seats up for grabs in Congress, in the House.

35 Senate seats up for grabs in the Senate, right? The hard work has already begun and is continuing here. Stay here together. Truth to each other first. Truth to power. Hit the rallies. Go to the swearing-ins. Do the voter registration and then vote.

And if you can give us back the House and the Senate, we'll have the investigations. we'll have the oversight, we'll have the checks and balances, we'll have the impeachments, and we'll have the convictions. And if you can give me, what I've now claimed is the sweetest words in the English language right now is a new Department of Justice or a future Department of Justice that we can now see at the end of the tunnel, right, the light at the end of the tunnel. You give me that, you give us that, and I will give you the justice that you've demanded. Karen, last word for today.

Yeah, look, as we close out 2025, it's hard to not look back at this year and have a lot of feelings about it, given that Donald Trump became president this year, and it was a very, very challenging and tough year in that regard. But, you know, watching Jack Smith's testimony, hearing from people like Michael Daugherty who are still people interested in public service and who are good, ethical, moral people. And being part of the Midas touch network and community and the community that has been built over these last few years, frankly, I have so much hope. And I have so much hope going forward. And it's real hope. And I have so much faith in people and in humanity. And just because we see right now a lot of loud voices that are the worst of humanity, and that's what we're seeing. And those loud voices also have a lot of power.

we have more power and we're going to take it back and we're going to bring this country back to the beauty and wonder that it is and it's going to start now. It's already starting and 2026 is going to be the best year ever. I'm saying it out loud because we're throwing it out there and putting it out into the ecosystem and into the ether. We're going to will it to happen and happy new year to everybody and Popak and everybody in the legal AF and saw who's our amazing producer who's here with us every single week who this couldn't happen without you you're my family i love you i love you all and i just wish everyone the most wonderful happy new year ring it in everybody shout out to the might as mighty and the legal a fers