Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Legal AF Full Episode - 5/14/2025

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Michael Popok and Karen Friedman Agnifilo anchor the midweek edition of the Legal AF pod and debate: how Trump is selling the presenting and influencing peddling on his tour of the Arab countries; whether the Supreme Court will pull the plug on birthright citizenship or hand trump another loss tomorrow during its oral argument; how federal judges are resisting Trump’s use of the Alien Enemies Act; Judge Hannah Dugan firing back at Trump using his own case against him in her criminal indictment case; and so much more at the intersection of law and politics. Remi: Go to https://shopremi.com/LEGALAF and use code LEGALAF at checkout for 50% off. Viia: Try VIIA Hemp! https://viia.co/legalaf and use code LEGALAF! Armra: Head to https://tryarmra.com/legalaf or enter promo code: LEGALAF to receive 15% off your first order! Qualia: Head to https://qualialife.com/LEGALAF and use promo code: LEGALAF at checkout for 15% off your purchase! Subscribe to the NEW Legal AF Substack: https://substack.com/@legalaf Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Well, as the president of the United States continues his influence peddling scheme, now going abroad to the Arab countries, in Riyadh and other places, announcing deals, some of which were in the works during the Biden administration, bringing along his true, true cabinet. Not the ones that are responsible for, you know, running agencies and things like that and departments. You know, the oligarchs, the tech pros, all those like Elon Musk that want to make money

in Saudi Arabia and in Riyadh, you know, in Riyadh, and in Qatar and all that. You know, I thought the big announcement, Karen, was gonna be some sort of peace deal somewhere. But for Donald Trump, a big announcement has to do with transactional, has to do with a deal, has to do with I'm getting a giant plane, has very little to do with how he helps the American people

or fulfills any of his campaign promises. But we have that as the backdrop, but things are still going on in the United States or fulfills any of his campaign promises. But we have that as the backdrop, but things are still going on in the United States while Donald Trump goes on his influence peddling tour, selling off America one piece at a time. We've got a huge, and we've got New York. Look at me, listen to New York.

It must be Karen's apartment. Is that your apartment? Yeah, you know, sometimes it's really loud outside. What can I say? All right, okay. Sometimes the life intrudes. Okay, we have, I can't put a too fine a point on this. We got a momentous Supreme Court decision

or Supreme Court oral argument tomorrow. Gonna be live on Legal AF. Yeah, of course. It's gonna be live on Legal AF. We're live streaming this 10 a.m. start. Usually they're on the bench by 10.05. We'll be doing commentary before, during, and after. I got Dina Dahl who's doing commentary before.

She's gonna join me after. We're doing it in the chat about, well, it looks like it's about birthright citizenship, but it's really about nationwide injunctions. And even though there's been 13 or so emergency applications by the Supreme Court, this is their first one, Karen, about a Trump policy as an oral argument. All the other oral arguments before it

were about older cases that have been kicking around for the last couple of years through the Biden administration. But this is the first one, and they took up this case, which gives everybody a little bit of concern. But we're gonna do a preview of tomorrow, like a little bit of a watching or listening guide for tomorrow's oral argument.

Then we got some developments in the area of the Alien Enemies Act, including a new ruling that's come out by a Pennsylvania Trump judge. And she's an outlier. We've got four judges have all found Donald Trump improperly invoked the alien enemies act because we're not at war really with Venezuela and a foreign terrorist organization doesn't count. But not this judge. We'll talk about judge Haynes in Pennsylvania and her ruling and what it

means while judge Zinnis in Maryland. There we go. Judge Zinnis in Maryland has more on her hands because at the end of the day, the Trump administration may be lying to the American people about, well, we're never bringing a Brego Garcia back. But in secret filings and sealed filings with the court,

they're saying the opposite. They're saying they're working on a diplomatic solution and the Brego Garcia lawyers have have had enough and the media has had enough with the secret filings and the Supreme Court has said that that Judge Zinnis needs to get to the bottom of what steps are being taken to facilitate Abrego Garcia's release from an El Salvadoran prison and we're on forget about the 120 days or whatever this is of the administration you know we're on like day 70 or more of Abrego Garcia being illegally held as a hostage in a El Salvadoran jail. So we got developments

there as courts around the country start to release from ICE detention graduate students for the crime of speaking out and exercising their First Amendment rights. And then we've got the courageous case of Judge Hannah Dugan, profile and courage. And it's not what you do when you've been floored and you hit the canvas. It's what you do when you dust yourself off and then dust yourself off at the next punch you throw. And so Hannah Dugan was indicted for the BS made up crime of

administering justice in her courtroom as a state court judge in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. But she's also filed a motion to dismiss and I'm gonna leave the audience a little bit in suspense but you can leave guesses in the comments tonight. She cited a case as grounds to have her indictment dismissed and which we're gonna go over in detail here. And guess, I'll give you one guess, which Supreme Court case she cited to give herself immunity. I'll make it, I'll spot you a couple letters.

Starts with a T and it ends with a P. And we're gonna pick it up there with one of my favorite co-anchors. I almost said the favorite, but then we get mad at me. Karen Freeman Agnifilo, we're here on the Midas Touch Network, fresh off a win for another podcast. What's the name of that podcast again?

The Midas something brothers, sisters podcast? Yeah, they won Webby of the year Holy cow will run some b-roll of them accepting the award Down in lower Manhattan the other day I'm so proud of them and proud of you my podcast partner for all the work that you do inside the podcast studio and in Real life. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm really happy to be here a lot going on Trying to keep up with all of the flooding the zone that this president of ours does.

I think the strategy is to throw so many things out there and of course we have to chase them all because they're all criminal. And you kind of forget some of them. You don't notice some of them or some aren't as bad as others. So you're kind of like you're numb to it. You're like, well, how's that so bad? But the the grift continues. I just can't get over the airplane and the cryptocurrency scam that he's involved in and that he's he claims he's going to save people the taxpayers money by accepting a 400 million dollar plane from the Saudis. OK, so I need I want Air Force One. I'm going to say 400 million dollars from the Qataris

Oh, I'm sorry. You're right from the Qataris. I apologize. I can't even keep track of who's trying to get The grift of the bribes exactly the Saudis are the crypto are the crypto memes the meme coins But but so so the Qataris want to give him a 400 million dollar plane And this is the very definition of gaslighting, right? Because he'll say, oh, saving taxpayer dollars. Of course, why wouldn't I accept this? You know, instead of spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a plane that Boeing is creating

for Air Force One or PS, the cheapest way to do this would be to just use the perfectly good Air Force One that already exists But no, that's not good enough for him So he needs a new plane and he wants to get this 400 million dollar one But what he doesn't say is it's going to cost more money to retrofit that first of all to take it apart Piece by piece to make sure there's no hidden bugs or anything, right? You have to from an intelligence perspective figure, figure out that there's no surveillance or

anything in there. Also, you have to bomb proof it, you have to bullet proof it, you have to equip it with all of the various capabilities where he can receive information, transmit information. I mean, it's really a souped up White House in the sky. That's what Air Force One is designed to do. It's designed to be in the air if there's a catastrophic event on the ground. And so that's going to cost more money to retro taxpayer dollars to retrofit that so that it can serve as Air Force One. And it's not going to be around. It's not going to be ready in term for Trump's term. But he that's okay, because once the taxpayer dollars are spent to retrofit it, he plans on keeping it as his private plane. That's just preposterous. That is

outrageous. And it is a scam. It is criminal. The fact that the Qataris are going to have basically own the president, what is he going to if Qataris want to do something that's not in the best interest of the United States, he's going to say no to them because he but now he is their best friend. I mean, it's stuff like that, that is just horrendous. And I don't know which is worse that or the fact that he is making hundreds of millions on this trip, he's peddling his crypto and he's making, he's selling access to the White House if you trade in his cryptocurrency. He's making, he and his family are making hundreds of millions of dollars. And what do they say?

Well, they were business people before, they're business people now, they're just continuing business people. They're just doing deals that they do. But that is the definition of gaslighting. They are enriching themselves off the back of the presidency, off the back of the United States of America. And I want to see what are they doing for the United States? What have they done for Americans, for average Americans? Nothing.

And so that's what's going on. But we will continue to cover all of the various scams and lawlessness that is going on. Yeah, he's made for his family upwards of a billion dollars of the various scams and lawlessness that is going on. Yeah, he's made for his family upwards of a billion dollars since he was elected, primarily through meme currency, through the operation of the World Liberty Financial, which is a liquidity pool marketplace for meme sales. This is his version of, he didn't make enough with

bibles and sneakers and NFTs. Now he's moved on to memes and it's a great way for you to buy a piece of the presidency. You can't donate as a foreign entity into a campaign donation, but you can buy as much cryptocurrency as Donald Trump's willing to sell you. And then Donald Trump knows through the digital wallets, he knows exactly who's buying and who's basically, this is the influence peddling that we talked about. And if you don't want to do it that way, you can do it by buying stock in a couple of public companies that are closely tied to Donald Trump. He's got DJT, which is his his truth social and his sons just created a new American Bitcoin company, a crypto mining company and infrastructure

company that's been around since let me just check my watch since March of this year. That just went public yesterday. Wow, that's fast. With no track record, right? Because they got there because daddy's in the White House. and daddy's going to be the crypto, he's president crypto. He's going to do everything to bet over backwards because his goal as any kleptomaniac, as any fascist dictator before he leaves office is to walk out with everything he can and make

as much money. There was two goals for Donald Trump on full display here in running for the presidency. One was to win to avoid going to jail. Check. The second one was to make as much money, there are three goals, as possible for his family on the way out, using the leverage of being the president

of the United States to create a printing press for him through cryptocurrency and through real estate deals around the country and other things like taking a $400 million, $400 million bribe from the Qataris that frankly should have gone to his investors that are his limited investors in the $5 billion golf course that was just approved by the Qatari government three weeks ago. See, that was really a success fee that should have gone to the investors. But Donald Trump figured out a way to do money laundering and tax evasion all at the same time.

Well, he's doing the success fee because, but for the fact that he's president of the United States, none of this would be happening. None of these deals would go through. Right. 1000%. So he takes the plane, which as you noted, by the time they're done retrofitting it, it will be late into the 2030s. It will be beyond, he'll help barely get to use it for a year, and then it will fly away with him after hundreds of millions of dollars

of taxpayer dollars being spent. By the way, the Air Force is taking possession of the new Air Force One. It's supposed to be in 2024, but it looks like it's going to be in 2027 or 2028. It's still going on. So we spend billions of dollars for the new Air Force One. He doesn't want to wait around for it. His Trump Force One is old and decrepit. This is younger, so he wants this, but he'll never get it unless he just decides he's just gonna fly with it without having any protection in it,

like bomb proofing, being able to operate a nuclear war, those kind of things. Like have at it. I'm thinking, you wanna do that? Go ahead. But so this is the grift. He just wants it, and he wants the title to be transferred to the Trump Foundation,

library foundation bought and paid for by the crypto pros and the tech bros and the Facebooks and the millionaire, the million there and the million there, you know, all these monies that he's getting and these phony settlements all going to the foundation. So he can fly around in his old age, on taxpayer dime, in a giant 787 or 777,

whatever the heck it is. It's obscene. And lawsuits, which is why lawsuits are so important. The last firewall against tyranny and these excesses has to be the court system. Whether the Supreme Court is up for it, that's yet to be determined, but that is our process. Why don't we talk about- Before you move on, I want to just say one thing.

Sure. Say many things. The whole point, the reason people like Doge is because they are purportedly cutting waste, fraud and abuse and saving taxpayer dollars and not wasting taxpayer dollars. Fine. If that's really what we're doing, how much is this trip to the Middle East that is for his own family business, it's for his own plane, it's for sell his own crypto,

it's to launch these new golf courses in the Middle East? How much is it costing taxpayer dollars? Because don't forget, he has to have his whole staff travel with him. He has Secret Service travel with him. I mean, I bet it costs, this is costing hundreds of millions of dollars. And that is what we are paying for as taxpayers.

That is, that to me is absurd. Absolutely, because none of that is true. There was no goal of tax savings or efficiency savings. This was like to get their hands on our data, create a giant treasure trove of data that could ultimately be used by business like Elon Musk. And that's it. The third goal was just to, you know, I said there were three goals for the presidency. Avoid prison, check. Make as much money as humanly possible as the president of the United States, check.

And the third is vindication and retribution against all his enemies. That's all or what? That's why people are like, where in that list is anything that helps me around my kitchen table? None, because that's not why he ran. You know, we used to ask our presidential candidates, remember back in the day, Karen,

when they'd be interviewed on 60 Minutes or something, and they'd ask that question, tell the American people why you want to be president of the United States. Remember when they used to ask that question? And you'd have to have like a burning desire. And if you didn't, there was, I don't know, was Gary Hart or somebody was like,

they couldn't, it was like they weren't expecting the question. Like how are you running for president? How are you not expecting to answer that question? And it like tanked their, remember those days you just tanked your whole political career when you couldn't answer that kind of question. But Trump can't answer that question.

It seems kind of cute, you know? Right, why do you want to be president? Right. So that's where we're at. Do you remember how cute it was, the biggest scandal that, you know, the biggest scandal that Trump did was he didn't release his tax returns Like that was like like horrible, right? How adorable the biggest handle for Obama was he wore a beige suit in the summer?

That's true tan suit. I just I can't I Just so frustrating. It's so frustrating. I mean and the thing is he's not even being He's not even trying to be secret about it. No, just like this is what I'm doing. I'm, you know, do something about it. There's nothing you can do about it. And you know what to him? He's like, that means you're a loser, and I'm a winner. And that's I value that 1000%. This is all the you know, the whole the whole thing about I like people who weren't captured as

prisoners of war. I like people like he really does. He like to him getting rich and finding the loopholes and scamming the American people make him a winner. And he got to him. That's a point of pride. It was a good article in The Times today or yesterday. I forget I got on the digital version that basically said the enemies and the frenemies have figured out how to negotiate with Donald Trump. You don't listen to any of his bullshit. You don't listen to any of his threats. He'll cave on every threat he ever makes, whether it's the

tariffs or anything else. All you have to do is start waving around contracts for investment and wait him out. That's what's going to happen in China. China has got the the United States by the balls, courtesy of Donald Trump. He declares a win after it's a loss that he's that has been made slightly less bad, but it's still terrible. And that's a win for Donald Trump. It's like I said, I'm one of my hot takes. It's like, I had 100% of something. And then Donald Trump did something bad. And I lost 20% of my hot takes. It's like I had a hundred percent of something and then Donald Trump did something bad

And I lost 20% of it So I'm down to 80% and then it went up to 85% Donald Trump said we won. I'll say what do you mean? We won. Where's my other 15% of the thing that I had? That's not a win To give me back less than what I that less than what you took But that's Donald Trump's whole game. And the frenemies and the other's counterparties against our country know this about Donald Trump and China knows it.

And all China's gonna do is China's gonna go, this is where they really eat our lunch, is they're just gonna say, we wanna have more investment of American companies in China. Let's make deals that you can announce and that Donald Trump's salivating and whatever things that we're trying to do

to contain China go completely out the window because Donald Trump just sold us out to the Chinese. And everybody knows it. Every one of our adversaries knows that Donald Trump is for sale and therefore the United States is as well. Until we get him out, until we get him out. So let's talk about, well we did a nice intro there, it went for a while.

But we're gonna talk about birthright citizenship and nationwide injunctions, because the Supreme Court is making us talk about it. Because they took up the case, they're holding the hearing tomorrow, oral argument. You guys, hopefully everybody else come to Legal af mtn and hit the subscribe button and the reminder button because you're going to want to be there for that 10 o'clock it'll go on about an hour hour and a half it'll be fascinating and we'll know right away whether trump's going to be winning

or losing and i'll give you some ideas here on the podcast of my thoughts along with karen we'll talk about the alien enemiesemies Act. That's a new reporting today that Donald Trump really didn't like the fact that his national intelligence director, Tulsi Gabbard, obtained a memo from the intelligence community that completely undermined his arguments about the use of the Alien Enemies Act.

And now it's off with their heads. Everybody's been fired that wrote that memo just as recently as April. As Judge Zinnis comes to terms with how quick, when is she gonna declare the Trump administration in contempt and have we moved closer to that based on some new filings in her courtroom? And then Hannah Dugan, I love her in many, many ways.

We support her here on Midas Touch and on Legal AF. She's the judge out in Wisconsin just doing her job of defending the rule of law and the propriety in her courtroom and courthouse and got indicted for it yesterday. But today, the motion to dismiss has been filed. We're gonna cover all of that. But now it's that moment in time where we talk about

how do we keep this channel, how do we keep this program on the air? It sounded ominous But we're independent as everybody knows we don't have outside investors We are building this network with our bare hands with you our audience And so there are a number of good ways to to support us most of which don't cost any money to you But are important to us as a channel and as a network one is For legal AF is the pockets itself but are important to us as a channel and as a network. One is, for Legal AF, is the podcast itself. Wednesdays and Saturdays we do the show,

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We're well on, salty, we're well on our way to a million. We're on, we're at over, we're gonna hit 700,000 in about a week or two, all because of you. Free subscribe, hit the reminders. You'll know every hour when we post something new at the intersection of law and politics. We've got about a dozen great contributors over there, including Court Accountability Action,

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And what I'm doing on sub-stack is not only posting some versions of the videos and some amazing articles that are being written by our contributors. I do a morning briefing we call morning AF, but I'm also posting like all the filings in the court that people are scrambling to read. Sure, we analyze it for you,

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Karen, tomorrow, 10 a.m., be there, be square. Supreme Court, oral argument, right? Legal AF, showing it, live stream, live feed. Why don't you, if you can, kind of frame the issue. Why is it important? And why do you think the Supreme Court took this particular case to talk about nationwide adjudctions? You know, one thing I love that you're doing, Popak, is you're providing a one-stop shop for people, which is just there's so much

going on here and there's so many things to follow. It's so much easier for people to have one place to go for all of the content, the information, the filings, if you want to learn about it, hear about it, figure out what's going on. So it's really, really a huge service that you, that you're providing to people. And so I really, I just love the Legal AF Substack. It's really a phenomenal resource.

So it's just fantastic. So birthright citizenship and the Supreme Court and what is happening tomorrow is really momentous. This is a huge deal. There are two big issues that are being decided tomorrow or that the court is deciding tomorrow. The issue that's presented before the court that they're going to brief

and that you're gonna hear a lot about in some ways has nothing to do with birthright citizenship. It has to do with whether one district judge in one place can issue a nationwide injunction. If you remember, back when Judge Kaczmarek in Texas issued a nationwide injunction, it seems like a hundred years ago now, but it was a couple of years ago now on the myth of Prestone and the abortion medication.

A lot of people, including myself was like, how could he do that? How can, how can, how is it possible that one judge in the middle of Texas in a one judge district? And there are districts like that, right? There's big districts like where I live, the Southern District of New York and where I practice. And there's dozens of judges who sit in the federal district court, the trial level court. And those judges are assigned randomly in a wheel, literally. They put their names in a tumbler. And depending on your seniority, if you're new or if you're senior, if you're a new judge, your name is in there more times.

If you're a light docket and you don't have a lot of cases, your name is in there more times so that you have more of a chance of when they literally spin the wheel and take a name out, that you will get that case. Now, there are, but depending on the size of the jurisdiction, there are fewer judges. And it's really luck of the draw, right? We were with the, with the Trump Mar-a-Lago documents case, we were so, we were, we were all so surprised that a Trump appointed judge got that case, right? But that was the luck of the draw. That's what you get. Sometimes you get good judges. Sometimes you get judges that are not the ones you want.

But then you've got these jurisdictions like where Judge Kazmeric sits in Texas, where it's such a small district. He's the only judge there. And you have plaintiffs who go and forum shop and bring cases in places like that where you either have 100% chance or more of a chance of getting the judge that you want. And then if they can issue a nationwide injunction, I mean, that in, there's no other case, I think there's no better case to show the power of that

than that nationwide injunction with the abortion pill and how that was going to affect millions of Americans as this one person. So this case tomorrow is really about that question. And it's happening in the context though of this issue of birthright citizenship and whether or not if you are, it's whether or not the 14th Amendment that basically says

if you were born here, you're a citizen, right? It actually says all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the state where they reside. And that's in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. It's been the law of the land for over 100 years. And there's this fringe theory out there that it doesn't apply to people who are here temporarily, that it was passed,

the 14th Amendment was passed around the time of slavery. This was about giving citizenship to children of slaves, not everybody else. And who is one of the architects of this fringe theory? None other than a lawyer who we've talked about considerably in this podcast for years, John Eastman. Who's John Eastman? He's the several times indicted architect of the, basically,

of the false elector scheme. And so he's been disbarred in California. He's been indicted at least twice. And judges have found that the attorney-client privilege doesn't apply with him because of the crime fraud exception. I mean, this is the guy who has been peddling this and it has caught fire and it has caught fire with MAGA. And this case was decided, by the way,

this issue was decided in 1898 in a case called US V Wong Kim Ark, a man born in San Francisco to Chinese parents. And the judges basically said, he's a citizen. And it made me actually want to Google, I made this issue made me look at when Baron Trump was born and he was born four months before his mother

became a naturalized citizen. And Trump's executive order conveniently makes that, because Trump's a citizen, it doesn't count, right? Because otherwise, even his own child would not be a citizen. But he had to say, oh, no, if one parent, if the father is a citizen, you know, then it's okay. But it's, what is this going to is a citizen, you know, then it's okay. But it's it's what what what is this going to do for the for the, you know, the hundreds of thousands, probably more of people who.

What if you what if you're 18 years old and you were born here and and you've never lived anywhere else? And then what? Suddenly, you're not a citizen of this country and you don't speak the language of another country, a country where you've never been. And then where are you citizens list now? I mean, what's supposed to happen? Or what happens if you are in a state that recognizes this, but not, you know,

but you live close to another state and you happen to give birth when you're in that other state, but you reside in the state that does, you know, it's, it's going to cause so much confusion. But really the issue that's going to be discussed, I think tomorrow is this issue of whether one judge can issue a nationwide injunction. And it'll be interesting to see. I think, I think they have to be able to, or the chaos here would just be insane. I mean, because I think what, 28 states have sued. And so what are those the only states that are

that if they rule, if they rule that the states that sued in this particular case, that those ones if you're born in those states, you're a citizen but in the ones that don't challenge it, you're not a citizen. I mean, this is the kind of issue. First of all, it's completely well established law and it's black letter law. It comes from old-timey times,

which is what the Supreme Court loves, right? They love what was it back in the olden days, and it's written in the Constitution. So I think this is a slam dunk win. I can't imagine that it won't be. And I think in issues like this that are so clear and that affect so many people and where chaos would ensue, I think they're going to say that, yes,

they can issue a nationwide injunction, but that's just because that's what common sense would say, but who knows anymore. What are your thoughts on this, Popov? Yeah, I just interviewed with Alex Aronson, Leah Lippman of Strict Scrutiny, a professor at University of Michigan. She got a new book coming out called Lawless,

and we talked to her about the book, about the Supreme Court. And I asked her that particular question. I said, what do you think? She said, well, it concerns me that they took up nationwide injunctions. They took up the issue on the backs of the birthright citizenship issue, which gave her, you know,

anytime they're like lifting up the hood and start monkeying around under the engine of the Constitution when it comes to birthright citizenship, it gives her pause. She said, you know, they have a couple of fringe dissents by Gorsuch and some others. They generally have allowed and affirmed the use of nationwide injunctions when it's appropriate. I can't think of a more appropriate purpose of having one or as a remedy in the toolbox of having one federal judge issue a nationwide injunction than when you're talking about a constitutional right. Maybe that's why they decided to do it because it's so clear on a nationwide injunction grounds

that you need to have one judge, not 50, not 500, make a decision about something so fundamental as whether the 14th Amendment does or does not provide for birthright citizenship to people other than slaves. Donald Trump's words, not mine. Yes, they came out of the post-Reconstruction period, and they're known as the Reconstruction Amendments Trump, but that doesn't mean it only applies to people

from that time or to former slaves. I know you fell asleep during any aspect of civics or history, but you do have people that work for you, don't you? So maybe the reason, one of her theories is they took it on the backs of that case because it's such a clear cut that nationwide injunction is appropriate for a judge one single federal judge and one single federal district and they have affirmed the use in the past but there are look things that were fringe theories have say have gained new currency on this Supreme Court because they've got the numbers you know another example of that is the unitary theory of the presidency. That was a ridiculous fringe theory that would have gotten you laughed out of academic circles

if you raised it in the 80s and 90s. And as a historical analysis, to claim that our founding fathers intended for us to create, to have a president operate as a king and suck in to one executive branch in one person, all of the powers, king-like powers, regardless of checks and balances, there's just no way that's the history of our republic alone tells you that that's not the case. But to those who believe, well, there's three branches and Congress is over here and judges are over here

and there's just one guy over there. So I guess he gets all the power of being the one guy. I mean, that is a fringe lunatic theory, but look, now that you have four or five votes for that at the United States Supreme Court, we'll know soon when the Supreme Court stops sticking around and granting procedural rulings in Donald Trump's favor and starts granting substantive rulings,

which could start with this oral argument tomorrow. But these fringe theories, all these fringe theories kicking around like, oh, that one line in the 14th Amendment about subject to the laws of the territory, you're not subject to the laws of the territory because you're undocumented and you're really subject to the laws of Venezuela, blah, blah, blah, and so that line alone

eats the rest of it and therefore, it's not that I'm changing the constitution with the 14th Amendment, I'm just giving the, with the executive order, I'm just giving a proper interpretation. I mean, it's eye popping. So I think there's gonna be a lot of nationwide's eye popping. So I think there's gonna be a lot of nationwide injunction discussion tomorrow.

I think there's gonna be a little birthright citizenship discussion on the substance. Although that's ripe for appellate review by the Supreme Court too. Because we've got like four different appellate courts who have all ruled that Donald Trump and his arguments are all wet. So, although if you look at the math,

every time somebody files a motion, it is the movement at the Supreme Court so far, they've sided with the movement without exception. So the movement tomorrow is the Trump administration. But I think that this is the one where I agree with you. I think they, it's just so clear cut. Maybe that's why they use this particular case for that. And we'll see, but let's not get too high or too low.

If they rule the way we think they're gonna rule, you know what the press is gonna run with. Oh, Trump is rebuked. Trump, Trump's been slam dunked by the Supreme Court. See, they're not monolithic, they're Republicans. They ruled against him. Let's not get too high or too low here, okay? They have generally, they side with Donald Trump

on the most important issues, fundamental, and they have for a very, very long time. Is there an outlier here or there on something so clear cut that even they have to rule against Donald Trump? Yes. We have to take this big picture approach. Anything else on birthright and tomorrow? Karen

No, I think you covered it perfectly popok. I just I think You know if you want to know what they're gonna do just look at what they say, right? They've been talking about this for a long time read project 2025, you know, that's like the roadmap to everything they're doing They're just doing it all. Absolutely. One of our contributors, Dave Ehrenberg, was going to do a hot take about trying to ban pornography. I'm like, just go to page 327 of Project 2025 or whatever.

It's right there. Everything that we are watching is coming straight out of verbatim Project 2025, the thing that Donald Trump said, he didn't know what it was and he wasn't familiar with it. Everything, really just about everything. Let's move on and talk about Alien Enemies Act. We got a ruling coming out of Pennsylvania that seems to be an outlier, and then Judge Zinnis. And what's going on in the filings there you want to take Judge

Zinnis? You start I love when you set things up. I got Judge Haynes she's a Trumper, captain in the JAG Corps, Army person and I went through her, her 46 pages or whatever it is, I'm still scratching my head. She's the only federal judge so far. And that includes two Trumpers and a Biden and all that, that has found that Donald Trump's proclamation declaring that the trend to Aragwa, the narco terrorist decentralized gang

that's been in this country for years, is because Donald Trump called them a federal, a foreign terrorist organization, an FTO, that that is enough for him to use the Alien Enemies Act, because that's the equivalent of being a military combatant, an enemy combatant, that's conducting an enemy, a predatory incursion. And she got all excited and all, and all, and all enthusiastic

about her dictionary analysis. Yes, you heard me right. You don't have to adjust your volume. She found dictionaries online from the 1880s and 1900s, the 1780s about what the word predatory means, what the word incursion means. She had this whole dictionary analysis. She did, it 1780s, about what the word predatory means, what the word incursion means, she had this whole dictionary analysis. She did, it was funny though, Karen,

she did a little dig to Donald Trump in the middle of the dictionary analysis. She said, I got this dictionary courtesy of the National Endowment of the Humanities, which Donald Trump is trying to get rid of and defund and destroy, I'm sure she knew that. But that was about the only thing in there that was against Donald Trump.

The rest was, and it's this complete catch 22 chicken and the egg problem that she has in her analysis. He called it a foreign terrorist organization. Therefore he gets to use the proclaim war and he gets to use the alien enemies act. So then was the declaration of a foreign terrorist organization enough? And where is that? That's not in the alien enemies act. We didn't have foreign. We didn't have to work as she noted.

We didn't have the word terrorists back in the time when the alien enemies act was passed. So I don't even get her analysis. All I know is judge, Rodriguez in Texas, Sweeney in Colorado, Hellerstein in New York have all said, as did Judge Henderson on the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, all said the same thing. What we're watching is migration. They came to this country and they committed crimes, but that's not the equivalent of a war, a warlike combatant against the United States to allow you to use the Alien Enemies Act. And then of course, she did make a note of saying that regardless of what I declare here, they still get notice and due process because the Supreme

Court says they do under the J.G.G. case from just a couple of months ago. So they will get a writ of habeas corpus, right? They will get a notice and due process as long as Donald Trump doesn't take away the writ of habeas corpus, right? Which he's threatened to do through his henchman, Stephen Miller. So that's what happened there. You wanna pick up there

and then we'll flip it over to Ibrego Garcia? Yeah, I mean, look, to people who don't practice law every single day, what is the writ of habeas corpus, right? And it essentially means bring the body to the court. And it's it's to when Stephen Miller, who is, I think, who's on my list of the top, the top most evil Trump people and is the architect to a lot of these terrible policies. When he says, we'll just suspend habeas corpus, it's extremely dangerous.

It is extremely it's something that we should all fear. A writ of habeas corpus is the only thing that a lawyer has. And how you go to a court and say, I want you to bring this body to this court so that we can have process, so that there can be due process. Otherwise, what's going to happen? People just get sent away, locked away somewhere, and you'll never hear from them again. There will be no court proceeding to have, to figure out was this lawful? Are you a member of Trenda Aragua?

Or is this somehow an arm of the Venezuelan Maduro government? Is this a foreign incursion? None of those things can happen if there is no court case, if there's no matter, if there's no body in front of the court. And that's why, for example, you know, all of these things that Trump is doing, sending bodies to, he's sending prisoners and deportees to El Salvador, Seacote, infamous, terrible

prison. But he's also looking to do this third party prison thing all over the world. He's looking for places to ship immigrants, and he's looking for places to hold criminals. And that's what he's trying to do. And he wants to set up these agreements, basically, to outsource our prison system as a form of deterrence,

to send them to the worst countries, the worst prisons. But there is precedent for that. Look, we have Guantanamo Bay, and that is what we have. And now those are people who we declare don't get any process here. You can't have a writ of habeas corpus, because these are people who are foreign nationals, who are people who have essentially committed terrorist acts

on our country, and they are in another country. They are in Cuba, and he's trying to set this up for immigrants. He's trying to essentially say that he's trying to turn immigrants into terrorists. And that is what's happening here, and he's, and they're looking at people who come here and migrate as people who are breaking the law by coming here illegally or unlawfully except of course if you're a white South African you know

that that's a whole different thing than than welcome to this country you refugee and let's let's take care of you. Because you're you're politically persecuted but but all these other individuals are not. And so that's what's happening here. And so this is really important that these things get adjudicated and that people get processed and that these individuals who are being skirted away in the dark of night and taken to foreign countries without any process, not turning the planes

around despite court orders. This has to play out and it has to play out in a way that I think the Supreme Court even is gonna say this is a bridge too far. People deserve due process, period, end of story. And this executive order, his sort of waving a magic wand by executive order and these declarations, you know, he, despite controlling Congress and the Senate, he, and presumably, you could do things lawfully

and get laws passed, he's just bypassing all of that because he likes the whole unitary executive theory and Congress is doing nothing. You hear any hearings? No one's holding hearings. No one's complaining. No one's doing anything. It's like Congress doesn't exist right now. I haven't heard a peep from a member of Congress for any reason whatsoever.

They have relegated themselves into the complete irrelevance and they are sitting back and just watching and letting Donald Trump do whatever he wants. And he is just making these declarations, you know, like, like he's a king. And hopefully the courts are going to start holding him and his administration accountable. And, you know, they lie, you know, whether it's, you know, whether they lie to the American people, right, whether it's Abrego Garcia who, you know,

has become kind of the poster child of this whole thing, whether it's him, whether they say, oh, well, we don't have any power, we don't have any control to ask him to have him come back. But then they'll say that publicly, but then they'll refuse to tell the court why. They'll refuse to come forward and give any reasons why, because they'll claim privilege or state secrets

or all these other things, but yet they have no problem going out and talking about it on TV publicly. And they say one thing to the courts and they say another thing publicly, and that's going to come back to bite them. The problem is going to be, how do you enforce it? How are courts going to enforce this? And how are we going to stop Donald Trump from removing people who, I mean, I know one of the things that we're talking about tonight

is what he's doing to students and grad students. I mean, I was reading today that there's a Harvard doctoral student who is being sent back to Russia where she says, I'm going to be arrested and persecuted for criticizing Russia in the war on Ukraine. And, you know, there's people who are, I mean, to say that somebody who's a doctoral student from Russia at Harvard is not someone who's going

to benefit this country, right? She might not be white. I think she is though, but, you know, some of these people might not be white, but they're not these criminals that they're saying, these MS-13, these gang members. These are legitimate, these MS-13, these gang members, these are legitimate, really important people who it's important that our country welcomes them in.

These going to our finest institutions, doing research into things that are really important for science and for the world, frankly, and that they're getting arrested, detained, and sent back to countries where they're getting arrested, detained and sent back to countries where they're gonna be persecuted. I mean not only is it inhumane, the brain drain that is gonna happen to this country and the brain gain that is gonna happen to places people like places like China are like come to mama come here all you smart people who are at Harvard all these things you were doing come here we want you we. We are going to become irrelevant

because of what he's doing. He's going to get richer, his friends are going to get richer, and we are going to become irrelevant. That's what's happening, and it's really terrifying. Brain drain is a real thing. I mean, Russia experienced it when they made outcasts of the Jewish community in the 80s and 90s.

One of the reasons Israel and its Silicon Valley equivalent and tech is so on point and so industry leading is because many of the scientists from the former Soviet Union, including those that were Jewish and other groups that were maligned in Russia and Soviet Union, including those that were Jewish, and other groups that were maligned in Russia and Soviet Union ended up in Israel. And of course, we saw it in Germany, when Germany during World War II, again, a lot of Jewish scientists ended up, including Einstein, ended up in the United States.

Our atomic weapons program, our atomic bomb, was a lot of people that came over from Germany and ended up joining NASA and the Manhattan Project and went to places like Princeton and things like that. So it's a real thing. And if people are insecure about pursuing their academic pursuits and research and all of that in the United States because they're uncomfortable here because of the political environment that Donald Trump has created, there are, as you pointed out, Karen, there

are, I could put on one hand, a number of our enemies and frenemies that are more than willing to take them in and give them unlimited budgets and not threaten them with potentially being sent off to a dark day for a gulag. And, and as you said, we will be the worst for it. We're certainly the worst for it. When you're when you're simultaneously attacking the Harvard's of the the world and cutting their funding on important things like medical breakthroughs and technology and all those other things.

I mean, we don't really have a space program to speak of any longer. One of the dirty little secrets of outsourcing it to Elon Musk and to Bezos is that we don't have the R&D, the research development that we have in our own labs in NASA with a group of scientists. And a lot of those breakthroughs ended up being used for civilian use.

A lot of things come out of the military end up for civilian use, but we're losing that. And Donald Trump's cutting all the budgets and of all the national institutes out there because he sees them as woke or weaponized or whatever it is. And like you said, he's a short-termer who only cares, he's a short time horizon, literally.

He only cares about making the most amount of money for himself and those around him as possible. Cares little, not a whit, about us. And we are going, you know, it's almost like I feel sorry for the next incoming president who will be a Democrat, because they are going to have, they're going to need at least two terms. It's going to be a Herculean effort to clean up behind this elephant of Donald Trump. We'll get there. We're a resilient country, led by the right person. We can do great things. It's just not this person who it doesn't

appeal to people's higher angels. He appeals to their worst instincts and the basest instincts and the devil inside of them. But we will be exercised one day and it may be coming as soon as the midterms. If we can get the House and the Senate back to restore some type of checks and checks and balance and separation of powers that will go a long way and to limit the damage of a full four years of Donald Trump. But the people have to speak. It can't just be us talking to each other. It has to be action, and action in the form of in the streets, emails, correspondence.

One of the things Professor Lippman said today is the Supreme Court is influenced, at least Roberts is, and a couple of others, by what they hear on the streets about people's reaction to the Supreme Court. Others don't care. Alito doesn't care. He says that.

He says it out loud. I don't care. But some do. And Amy Coney Barrett may fall into that camp. So letter writing campaigns and protests in the streets and other things like that matter. And polling matter to some of these people, these political animals.

When we come back, Karen, why don't we talk about and celebrate the courage of Judge Hannah Dugan and some new developments in her case. Something happened yesterday and something that just happened today before we went on the air. And now we're gonna do that part of the show that some people may enjoy and some people might tolerate, be agnostic towards or some people may not like it.

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contributions to the various contributors, and we do appreciate you from the bottom of our heart. And let's talk about, speaking of heart and soul and courage and conviction, let's talk about Judge Hannah Dugan, currently suspended by the Wisconsin Supreme Court, currently indicted. But there's a bigger picture here, and I want Karen, I want you to lead on it.

Hannah Dugan, indicted today, motion to dismiss file. Tell our audience what it's all about. Yeah, so this is a judge who, she's a local criminal court judge. This is not a federal judge. This is a local elected judge in Wisconsin who was doing what she does, hearing criminal cases. And she gets wind of the fact that one of the people

in her, one of the defendants was going to be arrested by ICE and in order to not disrupt her courtroom, she had him walk out of a different door, a few doors, by the way, a few feet away from the courtroom door. So it's not like some back door to get away. It was just a few feet away. So not to influence or not to interrupt the flow

of people coming in and out of her courtroom, which I think is totally legitimate and totally valid. But regardless, she that's what she did. And and so what is the DOJ doing? The DOJ is they arrested her very publicly, very humiliatingly. I mean, they they showed up and arrested her in court, clearly trying to send a message to everybody. And now they've indicted her and they're going to try to make an example out of her. I think they are going to lose big time. And she's very well represented.

She has a very conservative, well-respected ex-solicitor general attorney representing her, Paul Clement, and that should tell you something, that he's conservative and he's representing her, because this is so outrageous. I mean, this is so not... This is just, this is like crazy. I mean, the fact that the arresting judges who are trying to just manage and control their courtroom

is insane to me. But it's, you know, it's just very interesting to me. The Department of Justice, the FBI and the Department of Justice made an announcement, I think yesterday or the day before, that they're scaling down their work in white-collar crime, and they're focusing on immigration. They are really, that is what this is becoming.

This is becoming one giant immigration Department of Justice, and they want to send a message to a judge, because it's so easy for them that is what this is becoming. This is becoming one giant immigration department of justice. And they wanna send a message to a judge because it's so easy for them to find people if they can just go to court and go to their court appearances. But if people get word of that, then what's gonna happen?

People are gonna stop showing up to court, whether you're a victim or a witness or a defendant, people are gonna stop showing up to court if you know that, gee, there's your name, you know you're gonna be there at a certain time, how easy is it for ICE to find you? And so what's gonna quickly happen? People are gonna start losing control.

Judges and local judges are gonna start losing control of their dockets, of their cases, and cases will get dismissed. And also the other thing that's gonna start happening are people who are victims of crime or witnesses of crime, who are not full United States citizens, are gonna be afraid to go to court and to report crimes or to go to court

and be witnesses to crimes in addition to, again, if you're a defendant. And so what's going to start happening to our judicial system? It is so inherent in a judicial a judge's power to have control of their courtroom. I mean, just federally, every federal judge has what's called local rules, their own set of rules of everything that you have to do in their courtroom and how you have to do things how page limits

font sizes margin sizes I mean you name it how you how you conduct yourself in court how you Want communicate with the court? I mean and they are allowed to do that because how you control your court how things work is such Inherent it's such an inherent part of being a judge. And so if that's what she has determined she needs to do in order to run effectively run her criminal court, then she needs to do that.

And I think she's going to win for two reasons. She filed a motion today, a motion to dismiss one citing judicial immunity, one issue was judicial immunity and the other is federalism. And those are the two issues that were in her motion to dismiss and you alluded to it in the introduction. The very first thing she does is she cites to United States versus Trump, right?

The decision that, or maybe it was Trump v. US at that point, but it was the decision where they gave Trump absolute immunity for anything that he does that's presidential. And so that case was decided because something like immunity is gets to be decided in the beginning of a case, not at the end of a case. There's certain issues that you appeal

after a case is adjudicated, but there's certain foundational and fundamental issues like immunity that get to be decided first before you can go on and prosecute someone. And so she sided to Trump v. US where they found that, yes, this was perfectly legal and lawful to decide this presidential immunity issue at that stage, because this is so foundational. So she cites that as a reason why she gets to appeal this

now, and I think that's very compelling. But she talks here and says, look, first of all, I have judicial immunity because I was being a judge. I was controlling my courtroom. This is absolutely foundational part of what I do as a judge. And I think she's gonna win on that. But she also argued the 10th Amendment federalism and the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution,

which was, I think from the 1700s or early 1800s, it's part of the Bill of Rights. And it essentially deals with the balance of power between the federal government and the states and says that the powers that are not specifically delegated to the federal government by the Constitution nor prohibited to the states are reserved to the states respectively. So it basically means that federal authority, the federal government's authority is very limited to the powers that are in the Constitution, right? And, or powers that Congress, meaning the people, give them.

And so everything else is reserved to the states. And that's why police powers, for example, are almost entirely the state's purview. I learned by reading these filings and preparing for this that 99.4% of all criminal cases filed in the United States are state cases. Not even 1% are federal criminal cases. That's how miniscule the jurisdiction over the federal government has over police powers.

And so this is essentially the crime in criminal courts is essentially a state function. And by coming in and big footing this judge and saying what she can and cannot do and how she can control her courtroom, they're essentially disrupting a state court proceeding and disrupting a state court sovereignty of how sovereignty to handle their cases their way. And that is what I think is so powerful

and why I think she's going to win. And I'm so glad she's so well represented because they're trying to make an example out of her. I hope she makes an example out of them. Yeah, I liked everything about it. My gut is, I don't know, that eight pages of that motion which I read sort of looked to me like a placeholder motion.

Like they wanted to get it out early, but it's not really the written work product of somebody like Paul Clement, who you mentioned. In fact, his name is not on there. I think this is a placeholder because they got indicted today. They wanted, or yesterday, after a series of, and some people know, we talked about the red papus, scurpus process, grand jury is a lonely place for a defendant because

they're not in the room, nor are there lawyers, nor are there witnesses, nor are they permitted to cross-examine. It's the prosecutor, sometimes a federal or judge or magistrate depending upon, if we're in federal court depending upon the process, 20 grand jurors give or take, and just witnesses that are asked leading questions and documents without context or explanation. It's not an adversarial process. And hopefully, if the prosecutor is worth their salt, they're able to get an indictment. And they were. After a full day, they got a majority of the grand jury to agree and indict her. But I think this motion to dismiss, which you've summarized, is really,

they even say, we'll write a bigger brief if you want, Judge, and I think that's where Paul Clement comes in. It was sort of like what the law firm, Quinn Emanuel, did for Mayor Adams when Mayor Adams got indicted, like within hours, their motion to dismiss, but that was like a thing of beauty, to be frank. I was like 50 pages, you know,

they've been working on it for like a whole week straight. And it looked great. And it started the process. I mean, Trump winning also helped Adams, but it started a process to get him into a good leverage position to negotiate something. This one, I mean, I like the fact that they use the Trump case against Trump.

That's great. I like the fact that they use the Trump case against Trump, that's great. I like the fact they do a lesson, a history lesson about the 10th Amendment, which is all power not in the hands of the federal government is reserved for the states to say separation of powers, federal government, you stay out of here, this is the province of a state judge controlling,

as you said, their courtroom and their courthouse, and they have absolute immunity. And figure it out now, not later, like we shouldn't move any part of the case forward until this fundamental issue is resolved, see the Trump case. And I think it's a novel, but it seems to be square with the facts. Very little law cited in here, but I'm sure that'll improve as the court sets a briefing schedule. And we'll see. But I did have to do a double, I sort of did a double take when I looked at the signature block and I saw the lawyers that I know that she had originally hired, including a former federal prosecutor, Steve Bishkopic, if I'm mispronouncing your name, I apologize,

had signed it, but no mention of Paul Clement. Now I did do a little research before we got on the air. It looks like he's still in the case. Maybe he's working on the bigger briefs that they'll file to substitute for this one, and they wanted to catch the news cycle. But in any event, it does show that she is fighting hard. It was appalling, disgusting and depraved to pick her up in the courthouse, handcuff her in the courthouse and take her for a perp walk and then post it through

the FBI, the Department of Justice websites. All things I know are going to be cited by the defense all things I know are going to be cited by the defense, as you would, as I would, as being completely unconstitutional and against her burden, against her presumption of innocence, especially when it comes time to ever pick a jury. But let's see, I think with a well-written replacement motion to dismiss here, they may have a good argument

to get rid of the case before it goes any further. And if not, you know, she's going to be on trial for looking at six years and $350,000. I'm glad she's still getting paid. I'm sure some MAGA Republicans are trying to figure out a way how to take her pension away from her, take away her paycheck. But that's really the province again, we're back to the 10th Amendment,

the Supreme Court of Wisconsin, which is four to three on the Democratic-Liberal side, they've acted and no amount of lawsuits can change what they've decided about Hannah Dugan. So we will, she's gonna be arraigned tomorrow. This was filed before the arraignment. The indictment is out, or it will be unsealed tomorrow.

We already know what it's gonna look like because it's the people that have seen it say it's the exact the same as the criminal complaint that was filed, it's two counts, obstruction and concealment or something like that. All total and complete bullshit. At the end of the day, she did her job, she administered justice in her criminal courtroom.

That guy got his due, Flores Ruiz. He then stepped outside and he got arrested for something else entirely on an administrative warrant. Okay. I mean, this is all sounded a lot like entrapment to me. Sounded like they wanted, they knew Dugan would kind of take the bait. They knew she was liberal, you know, Catholic charities, former life, and they kind of set up to trigger her. And as they remind everybody in the motion to dismiss, it doesn't matter what her subjective intent was. If she was managing her courtroom in her courthouse, and the coming and going and the flow of people in and out, you may not agree with it, you may not like it, but it is immune from being sued. Can you imagine if people could sue the judge

for how they handled witnesses in and out of a courtroom or defendants or for motion practice? I mean, it would be obscene, but we'll continue to follow that there. But as a person, I can't wait till she's exonerated and we can have her on, for instance, legal AF. This is very similar though, just to put it in context. Donald Trump did almost the exact same thing his first term. I think it was a Massachusetts female judge. And he went after her. Eventually when the Biden administration

came in, it got dropped. But this could be hanging over her head for quite some time. And she's out of her gainful employment. I mean, she's getting paid, but she's been put on this earth to be a judge. And the people of Wisconsin have sent her to be that kind of judge, and she doesn't get to do that. She gets to sit around and think about her case for the next year, which is, I know, is an uncomfortable place for her to be, right?

Yeah, I think it's really such a shame. Yeah. So we've reached the end of another episode of Legal AF at the midweek. Been doing it for five years, almost straight, without interruption, Karen Friedman-Iknifilo. Saturdays we do it, I do it with Ben Mycelis. We do hot takes about every hour at the intersection

of law and politics, either on the Midas Touch Network or over on Legal AF, the YouTube channel. So those are the two places you just need to live. If you live there, you're gonna get your fill. You're gonna be happy, because this is the information that we need in order to be active, in order to resist. We have to have the information.

And that's what I hope you're finding in a truthful way, in an honest way, in an honest way, in an informative way, in a entertaining way here on Legal AF to Midweek. Karen, as always, last word. So great to see you, Popok. It's always my favorite time of the week is doing this and being a part of this community and this movement with you.

It's just, I just can't believe what's happening. I don't recognize this country. I don I just can't believe what's happening. I don't recognize this country. I don't recognize this president and what's happening. And so many things that are happening that are just blatantly, blatantly corrupt. It is so important that as many people as possible talk about it, understand it. And I'm so thankful that,

and just so proud of the brothers who created Midas Touch and brought us all together and created this unbelievable community so that we can a know that we're not alone and that we have each other and be just try and defeat this. This is this is a I don't know what you don't want to call it. I thought it was an autocracy, but it's worse. So we all need to defeat this together. And the first part of it is to really understand what's happening. Yeah. Beautifully said. Until next week, Legal AF, Michael Popak, Karen Friedman,