Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Legal AF Full Episode - 8/30/2025

Episode Date: August 31, 2025

Why are the Trump Tariffs still be collected if an appeals court ruled against him 7-4? Will Abrego Garcia get asylum to stay in the US because of Trump’s abuse? What are judges doing to counter Trump’s assault on Due Process? Will Judge Cobb stop Trump’s assault on yet another federal official this time Fed Reserve Governor Lisa Cook? Ben and Michael Popok answer it all on the top rated Legal AF podcast. Support Our Sponsors: Moink: Sign up at https://MoinkBox.com/LEGALAF right now and listeners of this show get FREE WINGS for life! Fast Growing Trees: Head to https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/collections/sale?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=legalaf right now to get 15% off your entire order with code LegalAF! Simple Hair Color: For 15% off your order, head to https://SimplerHairColor.com/LEGALAF and use code LEGALAF. CBDistillery: Visit https://CBDistillery.com and use promo code: LEGALAF and save 25% off your entire purchase! Check Out The Popok Firm: ⁠https://thepopokfirm.com/⁠ Subscribe to the NEW Legal AF Substack: ⁠https://substack.com/@legalaf⁠ Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast⁠ Legal AF: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af⁠ MissTrial: ⁠https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial⁠ The PoliticsGirl Podcast: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast⁠ Cult Conversations: The Influence Continuum with Dr. Steve Hassan: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan⁠ Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen⁠ The Weekend Show: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show⁠ Burn the Boats: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats⁠ Majority 54: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54⁠ Political Beatdown: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown⁠ On Democracy with FP Wellman: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman⁠ Uncovered: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Neutral. It's the ruling we've been waiting for and that Donald Trump dreaded the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals declaring that Donald Trump's trade war against the world is effectively unlawful that Donald Trump's did not have the authority to do the tariffs under the so-called emergency powers that he was invoking. They've withhold their mandate until October. We'll talk about what that means where Trump does have the ability to appeal to the United States Supreme Court, but that court en banc decision, seven to four decision, meaning the entire panel of that federal circuit ruled against Donald Trump. We'll talk some updates on Abrago Garcia fighting back and demanding that a gag order be issued against the Trump regime for statements that they're making other updates there as well.

Talk about Donald Trump firing the head of the CDC who he appointed. and the Senate just confirmed. And it's kind of a theme here. Donald Trump also firing a Federal Reserve Board of Governor whose term doesn't expire until 2038, Lisa Cook, accusing her of mortgage fraud in order to terminate her for cause. She filed a lawsuit against the Trump regime. And on Friday night, the same judge who I believe is overseeing the case involving Lisa a cook in Washington, D.C., rule that Donald Trump's efforts to deport on an expedited basis,

migrants who have been living in this country for a long period of time with zero due process, violates due process rights. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Let's bring in Michael Popock. Popock, we've got a lot to discuss. Did feel like a big victory from this Federal Circuit Court of Appeals. The composition of that court is not like when Trump's ranted and raved. It's a liberal court. I mean, these people are not like liberal. I mean, they're, they're come from a broad cross spectrum of, uh, of political views, but George W. Bush appointees, old school conservatives, liberals, everybody. Yeah, they, well, let's just take it right there. Let me touch on a couple of things we're going to talk about in more detail today. Um,

first of all, uh, happy Labor Day weekend. We celebrate organized labor here on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal AF. It, among other things, is under attack. And there's cases that we'll be talking about, if not today, on our various hot takes on legal AFMITES touch. But we celebrate the role of organized labor in America's success. On the case you just talked about, it was a seven to four decision from a kind of a specialty appellate court, the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit. We don't normally talk about it because it deals with things like patents and intellectual property and trade. And yes, there were more Obama and Biden and Clinton appointees than any Trump appointees. In fact, there were no Trump appointees. But in the four, in the dissent, it was made up of Obama and Biden appointees. So there was a cross-section, but there were more judges that were in favor of finding that Trump had violated the Constitution and a particular statute and the will of Congress than there were other democratically appointed members of that panel that found for Donald Trump.

So he got votes from Obama and Biden judges. He just didn't get enough of them. And there's a good reason for that. That's a complicated case that you and I will dive into in detail, including something that gets returned back to the Court of International Trade while we wait for a United States Supreme Court appeal that will be coming and a stay of that order in the meantime. But you went through the people who have been canned.

I just did a hot take that'll be up on legally F substack that reminds people of what we're watching, which is the eating of the young season for Donald Trump. The cannibalization of the Trump officials that have been fired, replaced, removed, you know, investigated, and the rest is just, it's just jaw-dropping. He said coming in that he would have a much more stable administration led by Susie Wiles and the chief of staff.

She's kept her job so far. I don't know why because all we've been watching in the last nine or ten months is a completely erratic reflection of Donald Trump's own inconsistencies, his own erratic mind in the way he's handling major cabinet positions and federal officers. The head of the CDC lasted three weeks. She was Senate confirmed. The head of the Internal Revenue Service, Billy Long, Senate confirmed, lasted two months. The number two in the Treasury Department just got canned after six months. the he went after the board of governors he went after the acting director of FEMA because he had the he had the audacity to suggest that FEMA should not be eliminated as a federal agency which is what Pam Bondi has been busy doing and the ones that have survived Mike waltz national security director who decided to put a journalist on his signal chat about bombing the hootis he got kicked upstairs to be the ambassador to the UN a Billy Long got kicked upstairs he got sent from from the IRS to Iceland. He got banished to Iceland

as a result of whatever he did in the two months picking a fight with Scott Bassett. And the ones that are surviving, talk about hunger games like Bondi and Tulsi Gabbard, they're only surviving because they are being forced to eat human flesh. They are cannibalizing and going after the enemies of Donald Trump both internally that have been finger-pointed

by like Laura Lumer or they're going after the the external enemies of Donald Trump in the case of Tulsi Gabbard who was on thin ice for what she did things that she did by going after Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and the rest and Pam Bondi the same and then you got somebody finally

like Dan Bongino who didn't get fired but he has a babysitter. There's a new deputy director coming in for the FBI to punish Bongino. This is not at the end of a term where I'm giving the rundown. This is 10 months

in Ben to this administration. And all of those people now gone are means that there are no people handling the levers of power, which may be a good thing for Donald Trump. He's hollowed out the Secretary of State, the State Department. He's hollowed out the Department of Education. He's hollowed out FEMA. He's hollowed out the Department of Justice. I mean, these people don't exist, and they're not being replaced. Hundreds of thousands of federal workers had had to hit the pavement as a result of Donald Trump, making us less secure as a nation because there's less adults in the room handling important matters to the American people. And literally finding the worst people for each position, right?

I mean, starting at the top with Donald Trump, you could literally replace Donald Trump with my two dogs, Takito and Chakito, and let former President Biden's economy just go into, you know, autopilot. And we'd all be thriving. I think at this point. So you literally have someone who's doing all the wrong things that you could possibly do. So a destroyer in the Oval Office, then you go to each position. You're like, who would be the worst human being to be Department of Homeland Security?

The worst temperament, the worst, Christy No. Like in the world, like one of one uniquely bad, defense secretary, who would be the worst human that you'd want to lead that? someone with no experience, a Fox weekend host who couldn't even make the weekday show, someone with a background of, you know, someone with a background of a very serious personal problems and issues who could be easily subjected to compromise and other, oh, you got to have Pete Heggs have become that. Oh, let's, you know, when you talk about health, who would be the worst human being for health? I mean, maybe someone whose face looks like a 100-year-old baseball glove, you know, telling you about health.

saying, I'm not going to do his impression. I know. I won't do it, but saying that he identifies mitochondrial defects in children when he looks at them in airports, now, they're just afraid you're going to give him freaking measles. Like, who would be the worst person for small businesses? Like, Kelly Leffler, a billionaire who hates small business, you know, who's trying to literally like how about intelligence, a Russian asset in Tulsi Gabbard? Tosie Gabbard, who would be the worst there? Who would. And by, By the way, Paul Sieg, talking about firing, this story hasn't gotten enough attention.

She fired the kind of main day-to-day U.S. counterintelligence intelligence official on Russia, who was preparing with the right data about how you're supposed to deal with Putin that Trump ignored. So then after, I guess Trump was pissed that this person who was the main Russia analyst was critical of Putin, she was going to be sent to, you. Europe. She was an undercover person, though, by the way. She was going to be sent to work at like United States CIA affiliated company in Europe. And she got her security clearance pulled. Not only that, Tulsi Gabbard gave a posted on social media a list of 37 people whose security

clearance was going to get pulled. And her name was there? This lady's name was on it. They reveal the asset who was a spy against Russia, whose now life has been destroyed because she gave Trump the right advice on how you deal with Vladimir Putin. And they fired the rush, the guy that did the, the team that did the analysis about the Iranian bombing at, right, at the exact same time. And this is covered on Midas and illegal A.F. And look who they're appointing to be the head of the CDC. They got rid of the virologist, immunologist, Ph.D. doctor, scientist, who should be heading the Center for Disease Control, and she's now been replaced by a Peter Thiel private equity investor who has no science background, no Ph.D. He's now going to be running with RFK Jr., also,

Vax denier, science denier, medicine denier, lawyer, at best, RFK Jr. is a minor environmental lawyer. This is who's now going to head the CDC, the guy that J.D. Vance is. his patron, his rabbi, Peter Thiel, whose biggest claim to fame people might know is that he backed Hulk Hogan against Gawker when Hulk Hogan's, you know, naked photos were published. This is the guy now heading to CDC. And then this guy, Eric Carilla, General, they called him Carilla the Guerrilla, you know, and he was the one who was responsible for coming up with the initial battle plans against Iran. He resigned.

He left, and no one expected him to resign because he was given. all of this authority, you know, there, there have been tons of cuts at the highest level in our military right now. Hexeth has basically purged the military of all of our top generals. But, you know, that's, if you study history, this is actually what happens in authoritarian regimes, right? As Trump posts his photo now, not just on the Department of Labor building, but on all buildings now have Donald Trump's face. If you go to Washington, D.C., it just straight up looks like North Korea now. His face everywhere on every building, basically, in D.C., and they're doing more, more faces on more

buildings each and every day. So you do that because he alone can fix it. The people who he hires are only the people who tell him, you alone can fix it, who are often the stupidest people. And everybody else who has some modicum of competence is purged. You talked about the IRS. They got rid of seven IRS commissioners already, seven in seven months, seven. Why? Because Donald Trump wants to use the IRS to go after his political opponents, the way Bill Pulte is using the Fair Housing Administration to claim that everyone who's a Trump political opponent commits mortgage fraud, and he couldn't get it from the last guy to go through people's individual tax returns.

And so he's going on to the next person who finally agrees to do it. So with that as background, Popak, tell us what went down in this federal circuit court of appeals. That reminded me, when you, that lead in reminded me the old joke about, you know, the punchline is, yeah, but Mrs. Lincoln, how is the play? I mean, you know, things have gone so terribly for the Trump administration. And we're here for it. And our audience is here for it. We thank you all for taking time out of your Labor Day weekend for it. So they, we, we had a ruling about two different types of tariffs that are the foundation of Donald Trump's failing economic plan. One we call the reciprocal tariffs, which is that big board. that Howard Lutnik, the Commerce Secretary, was running around in the Rose Garden in April during the Liberation Day, apparently liberating America from its economy on that day. But they were 150 countries

are now going to have all these tariffs that average 20%. They've never been tariff before. We've got to fix the trade imbalance and we're going to do it with this crappy economic formula that we all figured out was that's not reciprocal tariffs. You're trying to fix the trade deficit in every country

by coming up with the non-examination. number that gives, it just was so beyond non-scientific or mathematical, but those, we call those the reciprocal tariffs. The second type of tariffs that was the subject of this case, this order that just came out from the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals, dealt with what they refer to and we sort of referred to as the trafficking tariffs. That has to do with the tariffs placed on our friends like Canada and Mexico and China, not our friend, about their refusal to help with the fentanyl crisis in America. By the way, very little fentanyl comes through Canada.

I mean, it's like you could carry it in a suitcase during a year, a little differently in Mexico. And China has a whole different story. But that's another type of tariff. The tariffs that were not the subject, I want to kind of get people talking points here, the tariffs that were not declared unconstitutional or illegal or unlawful by this panel 7 to 4 are what we call the sectarian.

tariffs that have to do with sectors like aluminum, copper, automobiles, chips, you know, computer chips, you know, clothing, you know, that kind of thing. Those tariffs were not the subject of the appeal and are going to be allowed to go forward. But two-thirds of the billions and billions and billions or trillions of dollars that Donald Trump wanted to collect to wallpaper over his failing economic policy have been called unconstitutional and lawful. Now, they haven't been technically struck. down or blocked, and I'll tell you why in a minute. But let's talk about the decision.

We knew where this was going, because several months ago, when two different groups filed their suits that got joined together in one appeal, one representing a group of small businesses that were getting screwed by high tariffs, like they're going to go out of business with the new tariffs that they have to pay. And the other, about 12 or 13 states, which came together, and one ended up at the Court of International Trade in New York, a special three court, three judge panel that we normally don't talk about, except Donald Trump dragged the case over there because he said, oh, trade has to go to this court in New York. All right. He was hoping he'd get a better forum there. And then another case ended up staying in D.C. with a federal

judge, with, I think with Judge Catreras. So those, we get the big ruling that you and I talked about at length from the Court of International Trade, which said 30, you don't have the power under the one statute that you are claiming you have the power under Trump. The statute we're talking about is the International Economic Emergency Proceed Powers Act. IEPA came out in the 70s, 76 or so, to give whoever's sitting in the office of the president the ability, not to tariff, the ability in an economic emergency to do certain things about import, about export. There's a certain amount of punishment you can do, a certain amount of regulation you can do, but not tariffs. Why? Because Congress in the Constitution is given the sole power to tax, excise, fine, and tariff.

Unless they delegate to the president expressly in some sort of statute part of their constitutional power. And that's what the whole fight was over. Did Congress expressly delegate to the president by IEPA, the statute, the right to tariff his way into, you know, fixing his economic problems by collecting so much money to replace the money we're not collecting anymore in cut taxes, yes or no? And to use it as his blunt force object, his blunt instrument against our allies and friends

in global diplomacy or lack of global diplomacy. Can he do it, yes or no? So three-judge panel, court of international trade says, no, you don't have that power. But they were, that order, that injunction against the tariffs were blocked by this court of appeals that we're talking about now while they continue to collect money. Now, by collecting billions of dollars, that's led the government, you know, mainly the Commerce Secretary Lutnik, Treasury Secretary Bissent, to say things out loud like, you can't take away the money. The money justifies the violation of the law.

Look at all the money. but that's not how rule of law works. You either have the power to do this or you don't. And the fact that you've, you know, it's like, well, the volume of money that I stole at the bank justifies the crime. No, that's not how that works. So they go into this appellate panel. 11 judges sat for this, what's called en banc.

One sat out. And during it, a couple of judges said the obvious at the very beginning to the lawyers for the Trump administration. Let me stop you right here. Point to me where in the language of IEPA, the statute, is any reference to the T word, Karif. Go ahead. I got time.

And of course, the Trump administration had to admit it's not in there. And they said, well, the Nixon case or this case or that case. And they said, yeah, but that was under a different statute. And that was only for a short amount of time as an economic punishment, not a long-term strategy, which is what you're trying to make it. So we knew that they were in trouble from the oral argument because it looked like there was enough votes to vote this down. They were so panicked then, but the Trump administration, in like the last 24 hours, no, it either got word that this order was coming out and it was against them. Or they were just like, you know, like I get sometimes about my cases, I just get like a six cents that an order is coming out or something bad's about to happen that I have to deal with.

They filed last minute in the morning yesterday, declarations, affidavits from the Treasury Secretary, Congress Secretary and State begging them the court not to rule against them. And if they ruled against them to allow the collection of the tariffs to continue, because they would be, get this, embarrassed internationally if they had to pull the tariffs, that they were using it as clubs against enemies and allies alike, that they needed it in the Russia-Ukraine peace negotiations, which don't even exist any longer and no ceasefire, hundreds of people being killed in Kiev and other places

by Russia as an FU to Donald Trump because he's not being sanctioned economically by Donald Trump. But they actually tried to use that. That's how disgusting they are. Well, we need that club. You have to, but not arguing the law. There would have been peace. There would be peace, but for you.

Yeah. Blaming. It's all your fault. No, it's worse. They sent about the judges that our, economy will go down the drain if you rule against this. So first of all, it was after the record had been shut, after the hearing had been held, and the order obviously had been drafted. So it was a little bit late to be making that argument, even if it had any merit. Popak, not even just late,

sanctionable. Like, in what context while you're waiting for an order after briefing is closed, you people send declarations saying if you rule against me, you're going to embassionable. You're going to embarrass me. If any litigate, if you and I had a client do that, we would get referrals to the state bar and a second. Right. Agreed. Agreed. So they do that. I said, uh-oh, and I actually did a hot take on it, not knowing the order was coming out a little bit later. Order comes out, and it's exactly what we thought in 50 pages. It's unsigned, meaning the seven got together and collectively got behind this one decision. And it's a simple, let me make it as simple as possible, because it's really simple. You look, you start with the U.S. Constitution. Is there,

anywhere in there that gives the president the right to tariff? The answer is no. Where is that right reposited in the Article I Congress? Okay. Can Congress delegate? Yes. How do they delegate? They have to expressly delegate. Let's look at IEPA, the statute. Is it in there? No. Now we're up to the major questions doctrine, which is a made up doctrine that the MAGA right wing of the Supreme Court made up during the Biden administration to drive them crazy and to strike down things like the loan forgiveness program. And under the major questions doctrine, they then declared that if it's a major issue like a president tariffing 150 countries, that would be something that Congress would have to speak clearly on and put in a separate statute, or at least in the statute you're dealing with.

And if it's not there, then that's a major question that has to go back to Congress and have them pass a statute. So they turned the major question doctrine back on Supreme Court, knowing it's going there, and said, major question. your questions doctrine. It's not in IEPA. I can't find the word tariff. So no, you don't get to tariff. Now, they were very clear. They said, we're not declaring whether the economic emergency was proper. We're not, we're not touching that. We're not to, we'll assume it was, even though I'm not sure it was. We're not going to even deal with whether the IEPA allows tariffs under certain circumstances. Not going to deal with that. Just you, these two tariffs, reciprocal and

trafficking, are they allowed under IEPA? And the answer is no. Now, what did they do about it next? They said, we're going to remand the case back to the Court of International Trade with direction to figure out whether their nationwide injunction is too broad, given the Supreme Court's decision in May, that took away the right, not in all circumstances, but a lot of circumstances for trial courts to issue nationwide injunctions. So take a look at your injunction court. We're sending it back to you. We've already made the ruling that it's unconstitutional legal.

Now, you come up with the remedy. If you're okay with it and you apply the Supreme Court decision in a case we call CASA, then fine. Because I think with the states involved, it's going to be enough to do an exception to allow for a nationwide injunction. But that's been sent back there. But the whole case has been put on ICE in terms of they can still collect all these tariffs that they keep rubbing their hands and glee over until it gets to the United States Supreme Court sometime in October, meaning there could be an emergency application in a shadow docket, moved by Donald Trump, but more likely it'll end up on the regular term because they're allowing the collection of the, of there's no irreparable harm to the Trump administration because the money

keeps rolling in. So I think it ends up, maybe Shadow, I want to hear from you, Ben, maybe regular docket, but it's going to the Supremes on this one, right, Ben? Definitely going to the Supremes, definitely going to the Supreme soon. It's going to be expedited briefing. I think you'll have a decision by the Supreme Court before Thanksgiving. But I think you'll have a hearing sometime in October. I think probably right around that October 15th or 14th date, I think, is when you'll actually have the hearing, briefing before then. Let's face it, this has already been briefed. And let's face it, the Supreme Court has already made up its mind how it's going to rule. The question is, can we get into their minds where they frequently make the

wrong decision on an issue like this, are they going to allow Donald Trump to get away with it again? Or because it's such a important big issue, does this become like the rare times like Abrago Garcia where they said, look, you got to facilitate the return. You can't kidnap people and send them to locations in other countries. We'll let you get away with a lot, but that one we're calling you out. The biggest difference, but I want to hear you. your opinion on this. The biggest difference is that in the war powers, like the Alien Enemies Act, all of that, they were very squeamish about putting any limits on Donald Trump's ability to declare an enemy incursion, a predatory incursion, a war. And like they just deferred on

complete deference to his factual assertions about what was going on. But here, I think very smartly, the appellate court said, we're not going to get into whether the economic emergency was president or not. Good. We're just going to say, even if it was, do you have the power to tariff? How do you think they apply the Major Questions Act? Or do they suddenly forget, have amnesia, convenient amnesia, because Biden's not in office and they no longer apply the major questions doctrine? Because if they do, I think they have, I think it's a good chance that they say he doesn't have the power to tariff in this way. What do you think? Well, let's talk about it when we come back from our first quick break. A reminder everybody, Michael Popock, has started his own new law

firm. We're getting lots of cases and clients from our viewers and listeners. Go to the Popock firm.com or call 877 Popok AF. Go to the Popok firm.com or go to or call 877 Popak AF. It's a free consultation. If you've been injured in an auto accident, a trucking accident, negligence case, if you know someone who's been injured, if you know someone who's been killed in a horrible accident, a catastrophic injury, you're the medical malpractice. Medical malpractice. out practice sexual assault sexual harassment give popaq a call i know you trust him with the show and so give him a call um and he'll and him and his team they have lawyers across the country and uh that firm is growing pretty quickly so great work there a reminder subscribe to michael popock substack

the legal a f substack is growing really fast one of the top ten rising and it's almost was number almost very close to be the number one rising substack so go check it out on substack um subscribe to the legal AF YouTube channel. We'd love to see both the substack and the legal AF YouTube channel continue to crush it and be number one. All right. First quick break of the show, we will be right back after just these very quick messages. Fall is planting season, but did you know that many plants and trees actually do better when planted this time of year? But you have to know where to start. That's why I love fastgrowing trees.com. Doesn't matter if you live in the sunny south, or if the air is getting chilly where you are, their plant experts can help you find the perfect fit

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That's one year of the best bacon you'll ever taste, but only for a limited time. Spelled M-O-I-N-K box.com slash legal a.f. That's moinkbox.com slash legal a.m. Welcome back to legal AF. Thank you to those important sponsors who help fund this show. We're really grateful for them. The discount codes. are in the description below, check them out. So Popak, you asked if I think the Supreme Court will apply the major questions, doctrine. The short answer is that they'll provide

some contorted logic here. And the same way, and we'll talk about the Federal Reserve and a bit with Lisa Cook's lawsuit, they're just making stuff up as they go along right now. So all their doctrines are out the windows, right? And they've created, in their own mind, a fake carve out for the Federal Reserve when it comes to Donald Trump firing independent agency heads and said, look, and it's part of their appeasement, right?

They were saying, stay away from the Federal Reserve, and we'll give you the other agencies. But as I've always said, when you give Donald Trump an inch, he takes your life. So the Supreme Court says, stay away from that. And look, Donald Trump's a sexual abuser. like he's he doesn't understand no he's he's a bad he's a bad human he's separately a felon on on fraud cases he's a civil fraud you know across the board you bad like a bad dude so you tell someone like that don't do it they do it they do it more and so don't trump's like oh you don't want me to go after the federal reserve boom i'm going to fire the federal reserve governor

and i and i'm going to just make up cause as as a pretext to then go after the federal reserve chairman and destroy its overall independence. We talk about Lisa Cook in a second. So look, it's the only reason to have some degree of confidence the Supreme Court does the right thing here is that this taxing power is expressly the power of Congress. So you can say to them, well, look, when it comes to war, we stay out if Donald Trump can claim like war, but this is taxing. That's Congress. But that's why Rubio, I think, started sending those letters, knowing they would lose at the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals. But two audiences, one, the American public to blame their failed diplomacy, their failed economy on the courts, not on Donald Trump.

Trump was going to fix it. We were in a golden age. The court screwed it up. But separately to the Supreme Court to then say, this was a war power. issue. You are now impacting the war in Ukraine. Trump had it perfectly lying. I don't believe this just so you know. I'm doing more argument. Trump had this perfect meeting. It was big. It was beautiful with Vladimir Putin. They were about to solve the Russia's invasion in Ukraine. We were about to get it done. One of the things we were using as leverage was tariffs. But now courts, you've interfered. And that's why Donald Trump has not been able to bring people. to Ukraine in 24 hours. It's this libed-out far-leftist federal circuit court of appeal trade

judges. They were the ones who did it. I agree because what you're saying, you're right. They try to cloak everything under a national security or diplomacy to try to bring it back and whip it back to the president's powers, to try to make it more Article 2 powers instead of Article 1 powers. That's what we're going to see as the fight. There's even an argument that John Sauer, the solicitor general for Donald Trump's former criminal defense appellate lawyer, but now our number four in the Department of Justice, where he's now arguing now, Ben, I don't know if you caught this, he's now arguing that these parties like the states and the small businesses, they don't have the power to talk about the Donald Trump treading on the powers of the other branch, interbranch problems.

only Congress can bring a lawsuit for like impoundment of funds and other issues. So his new argument now is these cases should be dismissed because these parties are the wrong parties. If Congress has a problem with their powers being trampled by the executive branch, that inter-branch thing, they got to bring it, that branch has to bring it, which means nobody will bring it while MAGA is still in charge. another good reason to the midterm election to flush out MAGA from Congress. And then you saw, yeah, so that, you're right. So the major questions doctrine is so malleable

or what's the word they like to use, capacious. It's just, you can stretch it in any direction depending upon what the arguments. And this huge dollar amount that they're using to bludge in the Supreme Court and they tried to use the appellate court, which is billions and almost trillions of dollars are coming in.

You can't reverse the policy. and declare it to be unlawful. Look at the dollars. I don't understand how that's an argument about whether you have the right to do that or not. But it may appeal to one or two votes on the Supreme Court. Like, well, it's too late. You know, Jeannie's out of the bottle. Even though you didn't really have the power.

We're not going to stop it now. Let's talk about Ibrigo Garcia, Michael Popak. You've been on this since Abrago Garcia was kidnapped and sent to a concentration camp in El Salvador. And I think from the very outset, you and I have made it very clear. I don't know Abrago Garcia's background enough to opine. Is this a good guy or a bad guy? I'm not vouching for him personally. I can tell you that his union workers in Maryland said that he was a good guy.

They liked working with him. He showed up every year when he was supposed to show up to check in with the immigration office. he could have been deported to any other country other than El Salvador, but he was kidnapped and sent to El Salvador. When I speak about Abrago, I speak about due process rights because where you start to infringe on the due process rights of any individual, you start to infringe on the due process rights of all. And you may say, well, but these migrants, they're not citizens.

They shouldn't get due process rights. Well, by that logic, then, you could be declared a migrant. And the government can say, well, we don't believe you're a citizen. We think you're a migrant, and we should not give you due process rights. Or you look a certain way. So we're going to deport you first to a concentration camp and then ask questions later. And that's not a hypothetical that I'm giving. That's what they're doing.

The ICE agents go to swap meets, Home Depot parking lots, factories, farms, they round up people, whether they're citizens or not citizens. They throw them into detention centers or concentration camps, and then they ask questions later, oh, you're a citizen, you get released. Oh, you're a citizen. We'll let you go for now. Oh, you're a migrant. We're sending you to wherever.

So that's why this is an important issue. And due process rights do exist to people who are inside the United States. We should want that in our country. We should not want our country to look like, you know, one of these authoritarian regimes that just pick people up and torture them. That's not what we want in our, that's not what we want in the United States of America. So Popak, take us through what happened with the Brago, what's the latest there? And then there was the ruling on Friday from the federal judge last night that basically said what I said, which is, look, if you want to do expectations, removals of people who just crossed the border like you get them kind of got their foot on

u.s. soil for a second all good you can do that but where people have been living here for 37 years or 20 years and they've been productive citizens and are productive migrants potentially on their way to a hundreds of miles from the border you know then you know you're going to send uh you know someone who's been here for 25 years who doesn't even know what country they were born in because they came in here with their parents. They would never live there. You're going to send them back there. Come on. You know, or if you're going to do it, just give

them a due process rights with a procedure and a hearing because what the regime is doing is they dismiss all charges, then they do expedited removal. They don't want the process and they just throw you out right away. So Popat tells what's going on with the break. And we're going to talk

a lot about Judge Gia Cobb because she's going to overlap with a couple of our segments today, one on the removal issue on due process and one on Lisa Cook on due process, same judge. And this judge has been the... Donald Trump thinks he's an unstoppable object, but she's the immovable force

that is stopping the Trump administration from violating the Fifth Amendment due process rights of people with a very good track record there. So remember she's, you know, go get her action figure, put her up as a poster in the rooms of your children. Judge Gia Cobb, we're going to talk about her. But first, let's talk about what's going on with Abrago Garcia with Judge Zinnis and Judge Crenshaw and the new motions that have been filed since, just since his release for a weekend and then brought back into detention by the Trump administration and the reaction of these two judges and the pending motions.

First of all, there's been a change in lawyers for Ambrigo Garcia, which I will touch on on another hot take. The lawyers that were representing at one time Donald Trump that ended up representing Abrago Garcia are gone, and he's now being represented by some amazing, not that those lawyers weren't amazing, but by some new amazing lawyers that I actually know, Sean Hecker being one of them with his law firm out of New York for free, pro bono. That's just what our profession is all about. And since then, number of developments.

Last Friday, he was released from federal detention of Brago-Garcia because the magistrate judge Holmes in Tennessee took a look at the indictment, cast a jaundiced eye on the indictment, was very skeptical about the indictment, two counts on human trafficking or human smuggling, and based on the evidence that was presented, including she had a witness testimony in her courtroom, an evidentiary hearing about it. And she eventually said there's no grounds

to keep him in federal detention. The Trump administration wanted him moved if he ever got out into immigration detention. She kept him longer in federal detention related to the indictment to protect him from the government which his lawyers wanted at the time. But finally, Friday came and he got popped out

with the orders from Judge Holmes that he report on Monday morning this past Monday to the immigration officer, the ICE offices in Baltimore, Maryland, where he's from, by telephone, she said. And that was consistent with an order by Judge Zinnis, can't forget her. She's the judge in Maryland, who's been sitting over the constitutional violations heaped on Abrago Garcia by the Trump administration and prosecutorial misconduct since the beginning. She's the one that had her order to have him returned from El Salvador, where he was supported, as you said, illegally, admitted by the Trump administration,

tortured upon arrival, and was required, demanded, commanded to be returned by not only Judge Zinnis, not only by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, but by 9-0 at the United States Supreme Court. He finally came back under this phony manufactured indictment in Tennessee, and now, but Judge Zinnis always has had jurisdiction over him.

She said, when he's out, he's under my jurisdiction he's to be brought back to Maryland and he's to be given the same status of release as he had originally well of course Donald Trump defied that order sucked him back into the ICE detention again

blasted all sorts of inappropriate prejudicial postings in social media on Homeland Security's official website and social media accounts and Donald Trump pictures of him with a blurred out agent walking on Homeland

security posting that says this MS-13 gangbanger will never see the light of day again in just in liberty you had christie gnome pam bondi Donald trump Tom homin all universally trying to club him to death in the court of public opinion calling him i mean this this this was the this was the pom card this was the talking points child predator serial wife beater ms 13 Bang-Banger, whatever that is. MS-13 leader, human trafficker, and that's not even what the charges were, and the rest. I mean, on cue, on command. This is what they said about him.

The problem with all of that is that he's no longer just in the immigration side of the case. He is an indicted, he's an indicted criminal defendant in a case that means he's entitled to Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights. and according to the local rules in Tennessee and every other federal district, he's entitled to not have the prosecutors against him, convict him, prejudice the future jury, call him out to be a criminal, call out his character,

say, talk about evidence, make references to him being in a gang. They're not allowed to do any of that or it violates his constitutional rights. So there's two motions that are pending in front of, Judge Crenshaw, and then I'll talk about one in front of Judge Zinnis. The two in front of Crenshaw are basically based on the same set of facts, all of this prosecutorial misconduct that I'm

talking about. There's a motion to dismiss the indictment because of the prosecutorial misconduct heaped on the slender shoulders of Abraigo Garcia, including trying to force him and extort him to give up his rights to defend himself in that trial by taking a deal to go to Costa Rica and admit guilt, or if not, you're going to Uganda, which also backs up into the Judge Zinnis side of the case. All of that, the threat, the extortion, the punishment, the unrelenting campaign against him

in the Court of Public Opinion, and all the statements that were made by the White House against him, including one where they trolled Obama at the same time, they put up that famous poster of Obama by fairly, you know, the Hope one. Instead, they had a picture of Abrago Garcia with those red, white, and blue paintings. Underneath it said MS-13, but with an Obama logo in it. I mean, this was the official accounts of the administration. So, Sean Hacker filed two things.

One, that motion to dismiss the indictment as a remedial punishment that a federal judge has to punish a out-of-control prosecutor's office in the department. of Justice. There's no other way. You know, the judge is going to say, he may or may not be guilty, but you have forfeited your right, Department of Justice, to prosecute this case, and the only way I can fix it, because you've so screwed up his constitutional rights, is to dismiss the indictment outright. I think they've got a very good case there, and they're emboldened by it, and that's why they're not agreeing to plead guilty to an indictment they think they're going to get kicked.

At the same time, they just filed a motion for a gag order. Wouldn't we all like the Trump administration to go away and be gagged? They certainly do. So they filed a very sober, you know, wasn't bombastic, a very sober motion with Judge Crenshaw asking for him to enter an order requiring that Homeland Security and Pam Bondi and Tom Holman and everybody in the administration stop bashing and accusing their client of all of these crimes and disgusting depraved behavior, you know, on their official accounts and otherwise.

they cited to about 14 different with links to videos and appearances on Newsmax and Fox and press conferences and social media of all these people as grounds. They say it violates the local rule, which it does, about extrajudicial outside the courtroom statements by the prosecutors. It violates the Tennessee rules of ethics, code of conduct, and they want it to stop. And so the judge has set a briefing schedule related to that. I think by mid-September, we're going to get a gag order. Much like Judge Mershahn did against Trump in the criminal case in New York. Chutkin did against Trump in the election interference case in Washington. That's going to happen as he considers in this October the motion to dismiss the indictment.

Zinnis in Maryland called everybody together with an emergency hearing. She ordered him not to be removed, that he stay in Virginia and the detention center where he's at. He stayed through October when she holds an evidentiary. hearing about his writ of habeas corpus. She's very concerned she's expressed at the hearing about the threat to go to Uganda. He's indicated that he's applying, he's applying for political asylum or asylum here in the United States to basically be protected by, from the Trump administration, which is torturing him and making him try to disappear. She's pulling this all together, giving the lawyer's time to seek asylum. And if they can't get it through the immigration courts,

I think, Ben, that she as a remedy for this kind of misconduct and abuse of his civil liberties may be able to award him asylum sitting as a federal judge. What do you think about that? I think that's where this is headed. And I think that as the, you know, I think what Abrago is showing more significantly, though. And this is why, you know, certain people step up in these moments and do the right things and fight back. And Abrago is one of those people, you know, and look, the Trump regime, we covered this before, they gave him an opportunity.

Just go to Costa Rica, plead guilty to a few of these things, make us look like we're not total pieces of, you know what. And then you can go to Costa Rica, live your life with your family. Let's make a deal, right? The federal government's saying that to him, let's make it. And just think about it. He's been tortured in an El Salvador concentration camp. He was used as a propaganda pawn by Buckelly, you know, in that weird meeting that was set up with when, when the senator for Maryland finally showed up and was there to, you know, help him out.

Then you go to Tennessee, you get arrested on trumped up federal charges for a 22 traffic stop. You get thrown in prison. You're called a wife beater, an animal. You're said that your wife actually secretly hates you by the federal government. They say, we're going to destroy his life. The government's using millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars, doing a marketing campaign, MS-13, this, you know, and then they offer him a deal. Just go to Costa Rica and take, and you'll be fine.

And let's just end this. And he's like, no, I'm not going to plead guilty to things that I didn't do. do. And when you stand up like that, I'm going to answer your question more directly here, though, Popak, the Trump regime eventually loses and folds. I think the international community seeing that right now on these trade deals and when you stand up to Trump what that looks like. I mean, obviously Putin's known that from the outset that Donald Trump is all bluster when he says there's going to be sanctions or this or that. I mean, certainly more going on there. But you you can't make deals with this guy you can appease him and ultimately what i think this federal

judge is going to do is i agree with you i think that she will use her powers to handle to hand the trump regime a massive massive loss and whether that's granting him asylum based on the persecuting based on what's taking place right now you know or you know the chart or one of the outcome i think will happen charges get dropped he goes to cost Rica. That's where I think this is heading. He has said that he's okay with the Costa Rican thing, but now he's applying for asylum. But look how smart Sean Hecker and his legal team are. You know, we like to do Unlegal AF compliment people who are running into the burning building to save the rule of law and democracy. The only thing you and I knew about Abrago Garcia

was just just photos, you know, photos of him and with his wife and pictures trying to humanize him. But they were actually able, knowing that it was. It was a ruse that ICE said, why don't you come in for an interview on Monday? Judge Holmes was like, just phone in on Monday when you come to Baltimore. You don't need to go there. But they called them in for an interview, knowing that Sean Hacker and his team arranged a very quick press conference out in front of the steps before he stepped in. And for the first time, we got to hear Kilmer-Abrego-Garcia speak.

It was in Spanish. It was translated. but just to see him as a human being, talk about his trust in our legal system, his trust in God, his trust in his family, his thanks for the supporters, not just humanizing him, because Donald Trump's like a, like a serial killer. He doesn't want to humanize his victims. He wants to treat them like inanimate objects where he doesn't have any emotional attachment to them. That's how he wants us to feel about Abrago Garcia. A guy that they are spending, as you said, they're using. using the entirety of the federal resources, the bully pulpit of the presidency, all of the resources of the Department of Justice and the FBI, to pulverize this guy out of existence and make him disappear before our very eyes. Why? For what reason? It's not like he leaked nuclear secrets to the Russians. It's not like he's a serial killer. He's a serial child molester like Donald Trump's other friends. Why are we using him as the poster child to destroy

his life. I don't know quite what he did. All I know is every judge that's ever had a look at his case. I mean every judge. Judge Holmes, the magistrate judge in Tennessee. The immigration judge looking at his reasons not to be removed to El Salvador. Judge Zinnis, the Fourth Circuit twice, and the United States Supreme Court, 9-0, has sided with Abrago Garcia. He's more Muhammad Ali, Cassius Clay, as a resistor, than he is some sort of gangbanger, whatever that is, MS-13 person that needs to be taken off the streets because he was working with a group of people

in construction at Home Depot to support his U.S. citizen wife and children. And the fact that Donald Trump is digging in here to destroy him, to see this guy and the quality of his character under, he was just tortured in El Salvador. It was so smart that we got to hear from the real Abrago-Garcia.

And the more I hear from him, I mean, I was already all in for him in terms of process, in terms of due process, the more I know our audience is committed to supporting everything that Abrago Garcia stands for, not just as a person, but as a proxy for everything that's wrong in the Trump administration. Last quick break of the show when we come back, we still have got a lot to discuss. We'll talk Lisa Cook, who as before the same judge as the judge that just ruled against the Trump regime. So you'll briefly touch on that, Popak. Talk about that, maybe some other topics when we come back. A reminder, Michael Popok has started a new law firm in just a short period of time. It's got a ton of clients from our legal AF listeners and viewers. Go to the PopockFirm.com or call 877 Popopopac AF.

That's 877 Popak AF or go to the Popok firm.com if you've been injured in a car accident, a trucking accident, if you've been injured in any accident, of negligence by third parties, a victim of sexual assault or sexual harassment, medical malpractice. If you have a case like that, or if you know someone who does, a wrongful death

case where someone's died based on the negligence of others, these are the types of cases that the Popak firm is handling. Give Popak a call. He works with lawyers across the country, and it's a free consultation to see if you have a case. A reminder as well. Subscribe to Michael Popak's

substack, the legal AF substact, is absolutely crushing it. Check that out and check out Michael Popak's YouTube channel, the legal AF YouTube channel as well. We will take our last quick break of the show. We will be right back after these messages. Let's be honest. Most of us are tired, stressed,

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Thank you to all of our sponsors that keep this show going. Their discount codes are in the description below. Popak, a good transition to talk about Lisa Cook, the Federal Reserve Board of Governor, who was, I believe, unlawfully terminated by the Trump regime for cause, notwithstanding the independence of the Federal Reserve as a precursor to Trump's ultimate intention of firing Jerome Powell as well. He kind of moved from Powell to her. her. I think we should talk about the federal judge who's been assigned to that case,

but really only in the context that she just ruled against Donald Trump on a big immigration case. So maybe touch on that briefly and then transition to talk about Lisa Cook. Yeah, great. So it all ties back to Judge Gia Cobb, who we need to follow closely here on legal AF because she's at the forefront of a number of these cases. The common denominator is due process. she is hot and bothered has her hair on fire about a Trump administration that is running roughshod over our constitutional rights of anybody in the United States has the constitutional rights of due process depending upon their status where they reside how long they've been here but even illegal immigrants have constitutional rights if they're in the United States

and that's something the Trump administration never wants to acknowledge because it gets in their way of their evil plan to just put people in the back of vans and trains. and planes and make them disappear and as I said recently to make it personal for a minute I come from a family where there's no there's a lot of Popox missing because they were put on trains without due process and sent to concentration camps and never came out so I've got a special thing about due process and about people being disappeared because it happened to my own family so Gia Cobb judge Cobb ruled and you touched on it the beginning of our podcast today, that while the Supreme Court and she are okay with people

who are near the border on immigration, who just get their foot in, you know, they just crossed the Rio Grande, they just touched U.S. soil, them being turned around without due process because their constitutional, their claim on constitutional rights of due process are pretty limited. And so a summary removal process for people at or near the border, I guess, is okay but the further you get from the border and the more interior to the united states you get the more if you're doing it on a scale the more your constitutional rights are implicated and the more rights you have for due process she said 100 miles to the border okay supreme courts upheld that over 100 miles deep in the interior of texas and these other states still using the removal

processes without due process for people that have been here two years or more No. She said that's skimpy, her words, that skimpy due process that you're providing, which is no due process at all, stops now because they have a claim on proper due process rights regardless of their immigration status. And then she said the thing that you started with, this hot take, this podcast with, which is we can't leave it to the Trump administration to just point their finger at you and say, aha, illegal immigrant, no right to due process. And you never get to argue. What do you mean? I'm a U.S. citizen or I'm here legally or whatever. No, no, you're now channeled into a non-due process world, or as Judge Sotomayor, it says, a lawless world of Trump's creation.

We can't allow that. She's been hot and bothered about the Trump administration, and so she blocked that order. Now, I know everybody thinks, oh, it'll go up to the Supreme Court and get reversed. The reality is a lot of these things are not going to the Supreme Court because the Trump administration is abandoning their legal positions and they're not bringing them to the Supreme Court. I'm going to do a whole hot take on dozens of cases

that have been abandoned by the Trump administration, meaning they're not appealing the rulings by this district court judges. They know they're on an epic losing streak, and I guess they're trying to pick and choose. Now, there are some cases, of course, that we think they should definitely not fight over because they're just wrong, but they want to take their shot with their Supreme Court,

but you know because they've had 16 different victories at the United States Supreme Court against eight against them so they but not every case is going up that way so I don't know if they're going to appeal this case they may not in certain immigration areas they have not appealed and they haven't appealed there so far in another ruling involving temporary protective status and asylum status again another due process issue now she gets to be the judge assigned to preside over Lisa Cook Lisa Cook is one of seven members of the Board of Governors that run the Federal Reserve. Those seven members also pick the regional presidents of each bank, and together they get together as a gang of 12 in what's called the Federal Open Markets Committee. It is the only thing that really the Federal Reserve has as an instrument to impact the economy, which is setting interest rates. Donald Trump hates them and hates the Federal Reserve, has called for its independence to be removed. Jady Vance just said yesterday that, no, there's no reason the Federal Reserve

should be independent, which is exactly the opposite of what the Supreme Court has said and what the American people want. No, no, no, they're not tied to the American people back to the populist movement. Only Donald Trump should be making decisions about the monetary policies of America. God help us, because that's the only thing that tethers us to planet Earth is the Federal Reserve of being independent. So Donald Trump smells blood in the water because one of the Biden appointees, I'll have to get to the bottom of why this happened.

Coogler decides, no, I'm out. I'm giving up my 12-year seat. And Donald Trump's like, what? I'm one seat away from the majority on the board of governors? Who can we go after? Jay Powell's not going to work. Who's left?

Lisa Cook. Let's look at everything in her life. So he releases the hounds in the form of, Bill Pulte, who's a Trump enabler from day one, huge donor, got the job of being the head of Freddie May and Fannie Mac, which is not really a mortgage regulator, nor an investigator of mortgage fraud. That's not what they do. They're part of a, they're a semi-private entity that has government aspects to it that is responsible for ensuring that there's enough money in the market

for mortgage loans to be made to the American people. And they work with banks. to take loans off their books, put them on, in securitized, they sell them off by grouping together hundreds of mortgages in a security that you and I can buy. And it puts money into the system. He's not an effing regulator. He's not an investigator. He's not the inspector general about mortgage fraud. But he goes in and says, oh, I found two pieces of paper. Oh, she applied for two loans, maybe three, and she checked the wrong boxes. Aha, she got a slightly lower interest rate. Who does this sound

like? Donald Trump, civil fraud, New York, right? I don't know whether she did or she didn't do it. But the question is whether that in her personal life, whether she did or didn't do it, is enough to rise the level of four cause to remove her

from her 12-year seat on the Federal Reserve. Now, the case law, starting in 1935, says it has to be a specific type of activity, bad behavior, and usually linked to something she's doing in the Federal Reserve, not in her private life. Like malfeasance, oh, you know, she just doesn't show up for her job or theft of honest service, you know, inefficiency. She, you know, she's being paid to do a job she's not doing, as opposed to she checked the wrong box and got an interest rate cut on one of her

mortgage loans. But Trump argued to Judge Cobb at a hearing. that she pulled together on an emergency motion by Judge, by Lisa Cook to stay in her job, claiming she wasn't properly fired. She goes and gets Abby Lowell. You and I are going to talk a lot about Abby Lowell on legal A.F for the rest of the duration because he's representing Letitia James, the New York Attorney General. He's being interviewed by John Bolton, who just had an FBI raid, and he's representing Lisa Cook. He is like the go-to lawyer, which is good for people who have been targeted by the Trump administration. So they run into court. Now, let's just say that Judge Cobb is troubled by a number of aspects of this case on both sides.

Firstly, she's very troubled by the lack of due process that Lisa Cook has been given. She said to the lawyer for the Department of Justice, Yakoff Roth, who I know from the immigration cases, what's the due process that she was given before she was fired? I'm just barely satirizing this. There was a mean tweet by Bill Pulte, a social media post, and a letter that was written. She didn't respond to the mean tweet, and that's her due process. She said, you're not claiming, seriously, you're not claiming that's due process, right? He said, I am.

She says, okay, I'll get back to you. So obviously, she's got a problem with the lack of due process. Due process means there needs to be a tribunal, a process, a claim of wrongdoing, a defense to that, and somebody to sort that out, usually in a black robe or an arbitration, to make what it's called in the law, substantiated findings or findings about the misconduct that is at the basis of the four-cause termination. And why does four-cause matter? Because even the Supreme Court went out of its way in May in a case called Wilcox about something not related to the Federal Reserve, related to the National Labor Relations Board. When Gwen Wilcox says, you can't fire me,

which they said, yeah, he can. Because I'm on the National Labor Relations. board. I'm just like the Federal Reserve. They said, no, you're not. And he can fire you. But since you brought up the Federal Reserve, let's protect it. No, Trump, you hands off the Federal Reserve unless you have a for-cause reason to fire the person. Now, you and I have practiced employment law in our life. I've done a lot of this. I've fought over for cause a lot in the Wall Street experience that I had. Because in an employment contract, it may say if you're fired for cause, you're not getting anything. But if you're not fired for cause, you're getting millions of dollars in your contract. So there's a huge fight over what is for cause. So you'd think that the Supreme

Court would say what for cause was at the time that they also said you can't fire anybody, but they didn't. So now Donald Trump is claiming this mortgage fraud thing, if it happened, is sufficient to remove her. Now look, she needs due process. That's clear. I think the judge is going to give her due process is going to give her an a fora for her to argue against her termination and prove she either didn't commit mortgage fraud. Right now she's not, she's saying it was a clerical error. Whatever. She'll put on her evidence. That's up to Abby Lowell and her. But there needs to be a process for it. Not just what's what Donald Trump has declared at his filings, which is no, he gets to say that's for cause. And nobody can question. You have to defer to what the president says for cause,

which makes absolutely no sense because what's the difference between four cause firing and no cause firing? If Trump can just say, there it is, four cause, I don't like the way you're, I don't like the way you look, which could be in the case of Lisa Cook, or something else.

So that can't be it. She's going to say there's got to be due process, but she has asked for more briefing from Lisa Cook's side about this issue. On the Trump side, she's challenged them hard about due process. She's not going to rule until she gets this new briefing from the Cook side.

It's going to be sometime next week. I think she keeps her in her chair. There's a huge meeting on September 18th in which the Fed, Board of Governors, and the Open Markets Committee, you know, that committee, set rates at which Donald Trump is trying to get those rates down to help wallpaper overall as economic problems. And so I think she's going to have to make a decision

whether Lisa Cook is a board of governor or not by before the 18th. I think she keeps her in, more likely than not, gives her due process, has an expedited hearing about whether she committed mortgage fraud and whether that mortgage fraud is sufficient to take her out of her seat. And then we're going to be back at the United States Supreme Court on this issue. They've invited this kind of case, and Trump has handed it to them. Look, that's why in contracts, though, also, when we talk about what forecost termination is, what without cause is, contract drafts.

And I'm not even talking about in a government sense. We often define what for cause means and employment agreements. You know, is it an act of moral turpitude as adjudicated by a jury, you know, or can, you know, the head of a company or board of directors say, we just believe that it's for cause and see you later. And you're gone, at which point, what's the difference between four cause and without cause? But, you know, look, the Trump regime is using all of its levers of government to investigate their political enemies at all levels and get rid of them on whatever grounds that they could get rid of them on. And this is, as I talked about before, where the Supreme Court created this exception that said, you can't fire the federal. Reserve governors unless it's for cause, then Trump's like, all right, well, let me find a

four cause basis. Bill Pulte, go look into that. And by the way, as we go before, that's why Donald Trump also got rid of the IRS auditor, because Trump wants a guy at the IRA, the head of the IRS, because he wants to do audits of everybody's, you know, their tax returns, and then say, you know, you check this box, this number doesn't seem right. And then Donald Trump is the determination. And I just want you to think about this, and we'll close with this, that Donald Trump, someone who was found liable for civil fraud, for inflating valuations, you know, Donald Trump, who would declare certain things on his mortgages and then other things on loan documents and all of that, Donald Trump, who's been found criminally liable for business records frauds.

My dogs are getting that time for the show to just about wrap up. that's that's the person a felon is deciding for cause termination at this point so Popak I'll leave it at that and I'll leave you get the final word okay the dogs the dogs intervene the show is going to the dogs look I think the common denominator not just for this legal AF but for five years of legal AF here on the Midas Touch network what we do on legal AF substack what we do on legal AF YouTube is to build a community of people that get the facts without blowing smoke or sunshine about what's going on with this administration. You and I, this would be a completely different show and a completely different commitment to justice

if Trump had lost. We'd still be doing our job. We'd still be holding MAGA accountable around the country and whatever, you know, the Kamala Harris administration was doing if we thought they were doing something wrong and in the courts. But because we have, as you said, a sexual, serial sex abuser, a judge, defamer, felon at the top of the, at the top of the ticket, we therefore have what we're watching, which is a complete, a complete disrespect for the rule of law and due process in America. Leave it at that. Dogs are good.

Everyone's good. But Michael Popock, I want to remind everybody about your law firm, the Popock firm, everybody check it out. If you've been injured in an accident or know somebody, who has car accident, trucking accident, medical malpractice, sexual assault, sexual harassment, wrongful death, if you know someone who's wrongful death,

go to the Popatfirm.com or 877 Popat AF, 877 Popat AF or go to the Popak firm. com. Also, make sure you subscribe to Michael Popak's substack, a legal AF substack, and subscribe to Michael Popak's YouTube channel as well, the legal AF YouTube channel. If I said that very quickly, just look in the YouTube description.

You'll see information, about Popak's law firm. It's in the description of the YouTube channel. And just search Legal A.F on Substack and Legal AF on YouTube. And you'll get to it very easily. It's been great spending this time with you. Keep fighting. Keep fighting. Hang in there. We're in this together. Trump thought he would crush the resistance by now. But we grow stronger each and every day as he makes his fascist moves. We counter. We grow. We thrive. And it's an honor to spend this Labor Day with you. Happy Labor Day. Let's acknowledge the labor movement on Labor Day, which is what it's all about, and spend some time thinking, you know, just spend some time with your family or friends or take a breather as well.

And you can come back and check out our videos throughout the day as well. We won't blame you for checking my distutch videos. All right. See you, everybody later. We appreciate you. Hit subscribe. Let's get to 6 million subscribers here. Great episode of Legal AFC on the next one.

Thanks, Popa. Thanks, Ben. Thank you.