Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Legal AF Full Episode 9/20/2025

Episode Date: September 21, 2025

FBI Director Kash Patel admits to covering up the Epstein child sex trafficking files to protect Trump in response to Democratic questioning; Trump throwing everything he has at news media and protected first amendment speech is already backfiring in Federal Courts and about Jimmy Kimmel; Trump sets a trap for the MAGA on the US Supreme Court that they are trying hard not to step in; the Trump DOJ’s reputation is so bad that grand jurors, jurors, and judges are throwing their cases out of court, DOJ leadership is quitting the Trump Administration in response to being ordered to falsely charge Trump’s political rivals. Ben and Popok are together again to make sense of it all on the top rated Legal AF podcast, exclusively on the Meidas Touch Network. Support Our Sponsors: Miracle Made: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://TryMiracle.com/LEGALAF and use the code LEGALAF to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF. Trust & Will: Get 10% off plus free shipping of your estate plan documents by visiting https://trustandwill.com/LEGALAF Fast Growing Trees: Head to https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/collections/sale?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=legalaf right now to get 15% off your entire order with code LegalAF! Laundry Sauce: For 20% off your order head to https://LaundrySauce.com/LEGALAF20 and use code LEGALAF20 Check Out The Popok Firm: ⁠https://thepopokfirm.com/⁠ Subscribe to the NEW Legal AF Substack: ⁠https://substack.com/@legalaf⁠ Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast⁠ Legal AF: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af⁠ MissTrial: ⁠https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial⁠ The PoliticsGirl Podcast: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast⁠ Cult Conversations: The Influence Continuum with Dr. Steve Hassan: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan⁠ Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen⁠ The Weekend Show: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show⁠ Burn the Boats: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats⁠ Majority 54: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54⁠ Political Beatdown: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown⁠ On Democracy with FP Wellman: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman⁠ Uncovered: ⁠https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Seeing past the horizon, investing beyond the benchmark, because your money can't grow if it doesn't move. Learn more at dynamic.ca slash active. Dynamic, actively different. Donald Trump's $15 billion lawsuit against the New York Times was stricken by a federal judge in record time, a report. Republican federal judge basically said, do not throw this trash in my courtroom or I'm going to throw it out on my own. New York Times didn't even have to file an opposition or any paperwork at all. It was filed in this federal judge in the middle district of Florida's court. The judge looked at it. The judge says, I ain't reading any of this. This is 85 pages that looks like some bizarro press release. He referred to Donald Trump as prominent American citizen versus. a prominent media company, which gives you a hint if this case actually is refiled by Donald Trump. The floodgates of discovery are going to open. And then the judge just surgically mocked Donald Trump and took quotes from the complaint against the New York Times. And the judge was

basically like, seriously, seriously, you're talking about the apprentice ratings? What are we doing here? We need to preserve the dignity of Article III and of these courts. Finally, a judge had you know what to say it. Then I want to talk about Cash Patel's disastrous testimony before the Senate and the House. I think he created more problems for the regime in their dastardly cover-up of Donald Trump's dark past. We should also talk about how Alex Acosta, Donald Trump's buddy from West Palm Beach, who was the United States attorney in 2008, who entered that sweetheart deal with Jeffrey Epstein gave his deposition before the House Oversight Committee. A lot of, I don't remember, a lot of, I didn't read the victim statements,

but also that he stood by his deal and didn't believe it was a sweetheart deal, but seemed to just not remember anything when Donald Trump's name came up. Kind of a pattern that we're seeing here, the same way Cash Patel doesn't remember if Donald Trump's name appeared once, 10 times, a thousand times, 10,000 times. in the files. I don't know. I don't know. By the way, I loved how Congress member Eric Swalwell was cross-examining Cash Patel when Michael Popak and I analyze it. It's the exact tactic that I would use when I would take a deposition or cross-examine a witness who is being hostile or who wouldn't commit to any specific number. I would say as a one time, I don't remember. Five times I don't

remember. A thousand times I don't remember. Could it have been a million times? I don't remember. So it could have been one or one million times. Just think about if you were a jury, how that would look in front of you. And here, we're the American jury and we're judging Donald Trump's cover-up of what's taking place. Also, we should talk about Donald Trump firing the United States Attorney from the Eastern District of Virginia. That's a very important United States attorney position, perhaps other than Washington, D.C. and the Southern District of New York, and I'm not to say that one's more powerful than the other, But the Eastern Virginia federal prosecutor, lots of counterterrorism, espionage, homeland security types of cases,

cases involving government corruption, big, big position. And Donald Trump wanted that guy who I thought the regime, you know, was going to support this guy, too. He wouldn't prosecute New York Attorney General Letitia James. And Donald Trump demanded that that take place. So then Donald Trump got rid of him, came up with some other excuse about why, oh, it's because the Democratic senators of Virginia liked him, so I had to get rid of him. But anyway, we'll talk about that also, talk about the board of the governor on the Federal Reserve Board, Lisa Cook, the status of what's happening there with things being filed in the United States

Supreme Court. We'll talk about, of course, First Amendment stuff as well as Donald Trump and the regime are clearly attacking. There's a reason it's the First Amendment. It's the first one. It's the most important freedom of speech. and the regime, Donald Trump, FCC, Brendan Carr, the commissioner, going after late-night comics, going after talk show hosts, going after anybody who speaks negatively about Donald Trump,

very reminiscent of Hitler and the Nazis, I'm just going to say it because that's what they did, of Putin, of Orban, of Authoritarians, they go after the comics in their escalation of authoritarian tactics. I saw an article that I read this morning, the organization of the Trump. regime. And it really just talked about what Putin did to the stand-up comic, what Orban did, and then it went back to analyze what Hitler did and what Mussolini did, et cetera. Michael Popak, good to see you, sir. We're still fighting. We ain't giving up. No. It's probably why he hates Zelensky. Used to be a stand-up comic. The New York, against the backdrop of everything that we curated for today, you've got the

New York Times who we're going to talk a lot about. I think they hit the nail on the head with Jim Rutenberg's headline in his front page article yesterday. Trump hits the media with everything he has. Kimmel's Fall is part of a wider crackdown. And we're going to talk about the wider crackdown as Donald Trump gives interviews, feels nothing about kind of parrying and fighting with just journalists who are doing their job, like Jonathan Carl, and saying out loud that anybody that disagrees with Donald Trump, which he says is 97% of the media, I guess, 3% is Fox. is, that's not free speech, there shouldn't be free speech, and it should be suppressed, and he has no problem in doing that. We have everything that you and I need to talk about around the First Amendment.

Up on Legal AF, the YouTube channel, is two interviews this weekend and from yesterday. One with Ben Wisner, I did, who's head of the Democracy Project for the ACLU, a leading First Amendment lawyer about his views, about the First Amendment being under assault, what the ACLU is doing about it. And then Democracy Forward Sky Perryman is up right now with me from yesterday, or actually it's up today, in which he talked about the first filing, a Freedom of Information Act request that will start the process against the Trump administration and the Federal Communications Commission, particularly Brendan Carr, about him being used by Trump to crack down through

the use of regulatory powers and abuse on the ABC. and the CBSes of the world to get First Amendment expression that Donald Trump finds offensive off the air and how the FCC is being, it's not a pawn, it's complicit because this is why Brendan Carr got his job as the chairman of the FCC. And so we've got those two organizations, ACLU and Democracy Forward, who are ready for the fallout from Charlie Kirk's death.

And I will say that leave it to Donald Trump to overplay his hand after Charlie Kirk's passing. because he was getting a lot of, you know, sort of support around MAGA around post-Charlie Kirk. You got J.D. Vance holding a podcast in violation of the Hatch Act in the White House and saying out loud that civil rights groups are terrorist organizations, along with Stephen Miller. Think of the chilling effect of that while you got that going on, while you've got Donald Trump going after the New York Times and formerly the Wall Street Journal, CBS, and ABC, just like he went after major law firms, just as, just as he went after major universities. And then the last part,

we'll touch on today at some point, is the fight for civil liberties by immigration groups and supporters in the streets of America and Donald Trump using his shock forces to go after them. We got the split screen in the last 24, 48 hours between New York and Chicago. New York, you got 71 people protesting, including 11 Democratic elected officials who went to jail over ICE detention and its policies in New York while they're using pepper balls and tear gas in Chicago at the very same time while Stephen Miller says, by God, I'm going to crush dissent and civil liberties in America. And of course, we're all here at the intersection of law and politics to make sure that doesn't happen. The latest reporting from

this morning from NBC News is that there is no evidence at all, as of yet, linking the shooter with any left-wing groups, according to at least three FBI and DOJ sources that spoke to NBC news. It's not surprising based on everything that we've reported and that we know about the shooter from a white religious MAGA family in Utah, 22-year-old gun-toting family seems to fit the profile of these internet trolls who go deeper down the rabbit hole. oftentimes in apolitical ways view themselves as these like revolutionary accelerators or just become so detached from reality and so seeped in violence and rhetoric of hate and and a

confused ideology these these lost souls if you will and i'm not trying to sympathize with them at all just trying to describe this mental lossness that these individuals all seem to share, and that seems to be what took place here. But, you know, this was a time for healing. This was not a time for division. I think about the shootings like in 2015 in the Charleston Church, where nine African Americans were killed during Bible study in an intentional anti-black shooting when former President Obama said, we need to heal. Amazing Grace was sung, bring people together. And then ultimately, even back then, the right wing, and I heard Donald Trump say it this week. You know, the hate and division really started under former President Obama. And what

they were really trying to say when it comes to Obama, you know, is that he was a black president and that their people didn't like that. And some people, racist people in America, didn't like that. And if that fueled hate in their heart, it wasn't Obama who was trying to bring people together. It wasn't former President Biden who was trying to bring people together when things like that were happening. But to see it happen, to your point, Popak, so overtly division leftist radicals we need to exterminate them i mean that's the language of holocaust that's the language of nazis that's the language of authoritarianism that's the language of davidic get rid of the left where do you think that naturally takes you if you keep on following it to its conclusion when you

utilize a death of someone like charlie kirk and frankly the leaders on the so-called left or the center left or whatever you know everybody was saying you know condemning this you know, expressing sympathy and expressing condemnation for what went down in the shooting and sympathy for the family and authentically sympathizing. And then on the other hand, you get the leftist did this, you did this, you did that. And to me, that's horrible and horrific. And it's anti-American and we need to call it out. Before you leave, before you leave, we can, we can acknowledge the death and reject the martyrdom.

And that's when that is appropriate. And that expression of First Amendment speech, whether it's Jimmy Kimmel or anybody else, is appropriate in the moments following or the days and weeks following Charlie Kirk. That's one. Two, you just talked about Dylan Roof and some of the details about him being invited into a Bible study, a white kid, and then pulling out a gun and firing on those African Americans. Cash Patel, during his judiciary and Senate grilling, did not know who Dylan Roof was. nor that story that we just told, that reality, that massacre, that scar on American history as the FBI director. And so, okay, and so when we're seeing state-controlled speech, this is one, this is why I think the Times has it right. Trump hits the media with everything he got, but it's part of a larger crackdown.

Donald Trump, as you've said before, and I've said before, wants to destroy the Democratic Party and its brand. He's gone after its leaders, Obama, Biden, Kamala Harris, Adam Schiff, Letitia James, Lisa Cook. He's gone out in elected officials to try to embarrass them, try to troll them with false criminal prosecutions or interrogations. He's tried to do that. He's tried to undermine our brand, calling for civil liberties defense, calling for people's civil rights to be defended and immigration rights to be defended. it, right? So that is all trying to get rid of two parties or the second party in a two-party system along with the free speech. I just did a hot take. I think it goes up next day or so for Midas, which is about the attack on fundraising and how the Trump administration is going after

Act Blue, which is the leading small donor platform for the Democratic Party. Of course, they brought in $400 million as soon as Donald Trump did that. But Donald Trump wants to go after voters that are Democrat, donors that vote to the Democratic cause, speech, and democratic speech, in particular, civil rights organizations, immigration rights organizations, and police reform organizations. And he won't stop until we stop him at the polls and not only the polls, but in the public square and the marketplace of ideas, because we've got to defeat him there first, which is where Midas and legal have come in. And then, of course, we got to do it on that on that week-long election day. That's a year away. So here's what I want to do. I want to show

what I thought was some brilliant cross-examination of Cash Patel. Boom, boom, boom. I want to show video, video, video, video, video. Then I want to get your analysis of the cross-exam. I want you to speak to our audience as a trial lawyer, what you saw here tactically as well. Then I want you to reflect on the implications of what I think the Democrats were able to achieve, you know, for example, Moskowitz getting Cash Patel to agree that the FBI needs to now launch an investigation into the time-traveling forgerer who apparently went back to 2003 to forge Donald Trump's signature then, knowing it would one day emerge in 2025 in a birthday book. And this also shows our audience why it is that Donald Trump always loses or almost always loses when the cases go to

trial because when juries have to use the rules of evidence and you don't have propaganda networks and regime media like Fox or you don't have sellout media like the way most of our corporate media is today who are filtering all of this crap into ways that seem palatable to people through their billion-dollar lenses and brainwash people. When people get the straight facts, this is what they see. And it's why my mantra on the Midas Touch Network is play the clip. Show the receipts. Here's the document.

I do that because I want to show you just what the people are saying, not what I say they say. So let's go through this exercise together. And then I also would like to read for you from a opinion by Judge Berman in New York, where Judge Berman says very clearly that the documents, the Epstein files, are in the possession of the Department of Justice, and thus the Department of Justice is the party that should be releasing these files. The exact opposite of what Cash Patel says, because Cash Patel says, oh, the judges are preventing me from releasing it. No, the judge quite literally said, you're the one who should release it. It shouldn't be the limited 70 pages of grand jury testimony.

It should be you. So to me, this is where Legal A.F. is so important because it's not Democrat, Republican, independent, red, blue, this state, that I'm just showing you what the freaking facts are. Form your own opinions. But what's made me political as a previously non-political guy is that I just saw the lack of facts coming more frequently from one side, MAGA, frequently from MAGA. So let's go through this. And then Popak, I want your analysis. First, Democratic Congress member Moskowitz, cross-examining Cash Patel saying, so you've seen that picture of the woman's body

with the president's signature. He's saying it's not his signature. Let's play this clip first. Okay, let me attack that. Let me move forward. The president has, you've seen the picture of the woman's body with the writing and the president's signature.

The president says that's not his. Okay? The president says it's not his. The Republican colleagues say it's not his. Will you be opening up an investigation into the Epstein estate for putting out a fake document with the president's signature linking him

to the world's largest pedophile ring. We'll be opening that investigation into that. On what basis? On what basis? They literally put out a fake document, according to the president, it's a forgery of the president of the United States signature.

That's the basis. Sure, I'll do it. Okay, I look forward to that investigation. Up. Oh, am I over? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your doing. Brilliant.

Next, Congress member Moskowitz says, other than Epstein and Maxwell, your testimony here is that the number of names of other people who were involved in the trafficking were zero. And you'll see that what Moskowitz brilliantly gets Cash to admit to is that Cash is using his own very squirmy definition of charged, charged. Charged people. Well, we know the only people who were charged were Epstein and Geelaine. So yes, there are only two charged people. We know that. But that's how he was trained. to lie by using the term, well, yeah, Epstein didn't traffic any of the victims or survivors to any other charged people. Here, play the clip. And yesterday, in an answer to Senator Kennedy,

you said the FBI is not in possession of any credible evidence that Epstein traffic girls to anyone but himself. So according to your testimony yesterday and in this committee, according to the evidence the FBI has, the number of names on the list are zero. The index has been released, and the number of people involved in that trafficking operation were charged in 2008. Other than Epstein and Jelaine Maxwell, your testimony in the Senate and here, is that according to the evidence you have, the number of other names is zero. That were charged based on credible evidence. Who are the other names? Give me the other names that weren't charged. We are not releasing the names of anyone because the Department of Justice never does that.

of anyone that didn't have any credible information. Okay, let me attack them. Let me move forward. Another brilliant line of questioning there. Then you had former prosecutor, Dan Goldman. Here's what he had to say. Let's play it. I know.

Okay. Let's talk about the witness interviews. 302s of witness interviews. Those are not subject to the court order. Those are not subject to any fictional sealed order for a search warrant. Why aren't you releasing those with the redacted names of the victims? we are releasing as much as legally allowed that's why we went back how is that how is that not legally allowed sir do you know how court orders work do you know how protective orders actually you know mr patel i was a

prosecutor a real prosecutor for 10 years i know exactly how so i was a fake ones and i want to understand what the court order prevents you from releasing witness statements that the fbi took you should know that as a real prosecutor when the court hand downs a protective order and a motion to seal the material is sealed unless So your testimony here is that all of those witness statements are under a court order, a protective order. We are providing everything we can legally provide. Now, that's not my question. My question is, why are those witness statements that are not grand jury testimony that if they were under a protective order are no longer under a protective order, why are they not being released? How are they not under a protective order?

Why are you not going to the court like you did for the grand jury testimony? testimony to unseal those records. The DOJ did go to the court. No, not on those records. Why aren't you going? You just went on grand jury. I'm the gentleman's expired. You are hiding the Epstein files. I'm a the gentleman. Let's go to Congress member Swalwell. One. Let's play it. Remembering your oath to tell the truth. Did you ever tell Donald Trump his name is in the files? I have never spoken to President Trump about the Epstein files. did you ever tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? The Attorney General and I have had numerous discussions about the entirety of the Epstein files

and the reviews conducted by our team. Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? And we have released where President Trump's name is in the attorney's file. Did you tell the Attorney General that the President's name is in the Epstein files? During many conversations that the Attorney General and I have had on the matter of Epstein, we have reviewed. The question is simple. Who can tell? The Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files.

Yes or no. Why don't you try spelling it out? Yes or no. Use the alphabet. Yes or no? No. ABC. Director, it sounds like you don't want to tell us.

Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name was in the Epstein files? Why don't you try serving your constituency by focusing on reducing violent crime in this country and the number of pedophiles that are legally carbered in sanctuary cities in California? I'll work with you. One more from Swalwell. In traffic, I appreciate the director reviewing the files. You said you don't know the number of times Trump's name appears in the files, so it could at least be a thousand times. Is that right?

The number is a total misleading factor. We have not released anyone's name. We have not released anyone. The number is a total misleading factor. Let me just read from you from the court opinion about the federal judge. The government is the logical party to make comprehensive disclosure to the public of the Epstein files. By comparison, the instant grand jury motion appears to be a diversion from the breadth and scope of the Epstein files in the government's possession.

I mean, the court literally says the government should turn over the Epstein files. That's what the question. When I did the hot take on that, I said Judge Berman just effectively said, release the damn files. Okay, so let me back up from the... I want you to back up before doing that, though, we're going to take out. I want you to let it rip in the next segment. I want to take our first quick break of... No, Popok will rip.

Well, Popok will let it rip when we come back, okay? Just a reminder, everybody, Michael Popok has started a new law firm because the legal AFers requested that he started a new law firm. So if you or anyone you know has been injured in an auto accident, a trucking accident, negligence of others, if you know someone who's the victim of wrongful death, go to thepopokfirm.com or call 877 Popok A.F, that's 877, Popok A.F, or go to the Popok firm.com, sexual assault victim, sexual harassment victims and survivors are calling Popok's firm,

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time to plant. Use LegalAF to save today. Offer is valid for limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Check out the link below or in the show notes and support the show. We are back on LegalAF and as you know, Michael Popock is now going to Let It Rip. I showed the clips of cash potential could also talk about Popak Alex Acosta's deposition that he took where it's probably looked a lot like that, maybe even worse. It was behind closed doors so we don't have the tape of it, but apparently he doesn't remember. He supports the decision to give the sweetheart deal to Epstein, but he's also never read any of the 40 victim statements. And he never was really all that much aware of the 53-page indictment that his line prosecutors,

wanted to file against Epstein, but he doesn't remember any other details, really. But Popak, make it all make sense, Michael Popak. I'll try. I'll try to put it through the lens of a federal litigator and trial lawyer. There's an old line, as I was watching Cash Patel, I joke with you guys offline that there's an old line about intelligence. When you keep your mouth shut, doubts about your intelligence remain.

But when you open your mouth, all doubts are erased. And watching Cash Patel, the more he talked, the more obscenely unqualified to be occupying the chair of the director of the FBI, the more apparent it has become. And the cross-examinations that we watch, I was chomping at the bit, I would love to be on the committee and advising the committee about how to do some of the questioning. Some of it was done really expertly, as you just showed. The takeaway from two days of, not one, but two days of cross-examination of Cash Patel,

first in the Senate, and then in the House, is that they, and this is while Donald Trump's split screen was trying to, trying to do a royal visit to get away from the Epstein debacle. The Charlie Kirk overreach on the First Amendment backlash, the, you know, after he went after Jimmy Kimmel, because he overplayed his hand, the backlash over the economy, and Lisa Cook, terrible, terrible. You know, it's enough to fill, you know, a whole administration's worth of bad news, let alone one week. And then he's hoping Cash Patel is going to do okay. And I've never seen a man actually drown until I saw Cash Patel in two days. We just showed a lot of the house clips. And he's easy to cross-examine to within an inch of his life because it's a person that has a secret

And he wants to hide it from the American people, which is he knows that Donald Trump's name is lousy throughout the entirety of the thousands, hundreds of thousands of pages of Epstein files. That is the reason why we had cash. And I would have added another cross. My cross would have started this way. Before you became the director of the FBI as a right-wing podcaster and somebody trying to collect money, you peddled in the conspiracy theories about the Epstein and trying to bring everybody to justice who was involved with that child sex trafficking rig. Isn't that right, sir? And you made a lot of money about that, you know, grifting off of that issue. And then when you got into office at the highest level of the FBI,

your minions those that support you. We're very, very happy that you and Pam Bondi would get to the bottom of this conspiracy theory and bring people to justice related to the Epstein files, right, sir? In fact, in February, February, after you'd only been in office a short amount of time, you and Pam Bondi co-authored a letter in which you promised the American people that no rock would be unturned, that no document would be withheld, and that everything would be released. That was in February, right, sir? And since February until today, the entirety of the release is comprised of 33,000 pages, 98% of which we've already seen, but nothing else. And what's the big difference? big difference is that in March through May, the FBI scoured the documents looking for Donald Trump's name, found it, reported it to Donald Trump, and Donald Trump told you not to release the files. Isn't that right, sir? Is that about right? And let him, what's the alphabet? What's my number? What's my name? You know, that's how I, maybe there's a clip or somebody

did that, but that's the first thing I would have went after with Cash Patel and just hoist him on his own partart. But this was a very effective to show the American people. because this is our opportunity. This is the opportunity for the opposition, right? The party that's not in power can do some things. You can write nasty letters. You can issue subpoenas that may or may not be ignored. But here, during hearings and oversight hearings,

you have to frame the issues for the American people. And Cash Patel drowned live on national television, including, as we've played before, where he was cross-examined about the Epstein photos of Donald Trump. This is Michael Wolfe's testimony, or his statements that were played on legal A.F. That ended up in the hearing room, played by Ted Liu, that he, Epstein, saw photos, and so did Wolf of Donald Trump

with young girls on his lap. And where did those photos go after the search warrant? And where did the safe contents go for Epstein? And that was Raskin and Ted Liu and all of them. Cash Patel showed a complete ignorance about anything that goes to his job running the FBI. Like, he didn't know who Dylan Roof was. He doesn't know, you know, they're so hell-bent on, on martyring and venerating Charlie Kirk

that they don't know the basics of our history about mass murder, civil rights violations, and the rest. When the back and forth between Swalwell in him was very interesting, because it did remind me that Cash Patel for a short time was in the Obama Department of Justice. this purportedly doing prosecutions for counterterrorism. Oh, how he has fallen since he left the Obama administration into, as Jasmine Crockett called him, the most unqualified FBI director of all time. None of that helped Donald Trump.

And then he lied, either ill-prepared, because this is their other, it's a weird strategy. You and I who've represented, you know, people and got them ready for depositions, including me when I worked in corporate America, getting Apex officers and maybe you two ready for their depositions. You know, you prep them to within an inch of their life. There's some things you're like, well, you don't need to read that document, but, you know, wait to see if they use that exhibit. But generally, you want your people prepared. They have obviously sent it, whether it's a Department of Justice lawyer to answer questions to a federal judge, or it's somebody like Cash Patel or others that go before the House or the Senate.

They don't want them prepared. So they look ill-prepared. They're sort of the sacrificial lambs pushed out to slaughter by Donald Trump and his and his, the true leaders of the administration like Stephen Miller, because like, no, don't let him know that fact. It's better that he doesn't know it and look stupid, such as his reference to court orders presenting, preventing him from releasing files. First of all, that popped into his head on the second day. On the first day, he never said he wasn't releasing the files, the Epstein files, because there's a court order that he can't do it. That's something that they jammed into his head between the first testimony and the second testimony. And then he got that completely wrong as Goldman, as Representative Goldman, a real

former prosecutor pointed out. We had three, Donald Trump tried to feed the monster of his own MAGA with Epstein files in the, in the version of the grand jury testimony, which was, which consists of three witnesses who were summary witnesses for law enforcement. No victims testified at the grand jury. No clients testified. Epstein didn't testify. Maxwell didn't testify. Nobody testified.

It's a very short, as Judge Berman pointed out, it's one day of testimony, okay? And they said, well, we're going to, transparency. Epstein files, we're going to redefine them as the grand jury files. So they went to three different judges, Rosenberg in Florida, Engelmeier, who sat over Maxwell, well, he took over from the judge who had sat over the Maxwell trial because she got elevated to the Second Circuit and Judge Berman, who was and is the judge over the Epstein prosecution. And Engelmeier and Berman, like a week apart, said virtually the same thing. You're barking up the wrong tree.

All of the files, and Berman really brought it home, all, all of the four. files that you claim in your own filings here before my court that the U.S. public needs to see. It's of great public importance, which is your grounds for me to violate the grand jury rules of secrecy under the federal rules of criminal procedure 4E. All of that public interest and public demand and public clamor, you can satiate and fix by releasing the documents that you have acknowledged are under your command. Don't blame the federal judges, because all the only thing we're sitting on is grand jury transcripts, which, and I've looked, and he said, both Engelmeyer and Burman said, I've looked

at it in camera. There's not much there there that you haven't hard. The victim's own civil trials led to more information. We'll get to Acosta in a second. So somebody briefed Cash Patel and told him or he read those orders and you, the takeaway was, I can't release the Epstein files? Look, Bill Barr in one of those other secret closed door depositions, former attorney general of the United States under Donald Trump, said that Pam Bondi has full authority to release the files. She's got full authority to do a lot

of things. We've never seen volume two of Jack Smith's investigation of, and the results of his investigation against Donald Trump. We only saw volume one. We didn't see the Mar-a-Lago one. Where is it? burned in a fireplace somewhere in the Department of Justice, I'm sure. She doesn't release that either. We should make a FOIA request for that, by the way, as an entity. So now you go forward to Alex Acosta, who I don't want to say I know. He's not a friend of mine. But I did practice in South Florida at the same time.

He was moving around as a lawyer. And then he got elevated, a Cuban-American Federalist Society guy that became the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Florida. Alan Dershowitz, the lawyer for Epstein, now Major Schill for Galane Maxwell on television, who got a tremendous gift present, as we know now from the Epstein emails that included a $1.8 million Excel spreadsheet of gifts that went to both victims and other rich and famous white guys. I'll just leave it at that for now.

So Alan Dershowitz negotiates when he's not busy, as the press has reported, Julie K. Brown included, when he's busy not going after, when he's not busy going after victims and trying to make them recant their stories, he's signing this non-prosecution agreement on behalf of Epstein with Alex Acosta's office, without consultation with the victims, to allow Epstein to plead guilty to a state charge of soliciting. prostitution from a minor, which totally flips the script. The minor is no longer a victim. It's not raping a girl. It's like the girl is running a business, and this is almost like it's consensual. You're soliciting child prostitution is raping a little girl. I mean, I don't know how else you can put this. And that was the charge that put Epstein away for a very short amount of time

and let him go back to raping girls at a child sex trafficking ring with the help of Galane Maxwell. By the way, Patel also effed up the Galane Maxwell rehabilitation tour to get her a pardon because he's like, the only people that were involved with the child sex trafficking ring, have been indicted and convicted. Okay, I thought Galane Maxwell was a victim that needed to be given a cushy federal prison spot on her way to a pardon because she bailed out Donald Trump by vouching for him. you know and then and then he in then of course patel forgot the talking points that he was supposed to do to throw democrats under the bus

because he said well there's nobody in there in the this is my favorite part i haven't seen the files i haven't reviewed all the files but in the files i haven't reviewed there's nobody else involved with child sex trafficking besides geoffrey epstein and whoever else i'm like oh what happened to the clinton talking point You forgot that, right? So I'm not sure, as I agree with Cory Booker, who on the first day said, sir, I'm not sure you're long for your job. I don't think I'm going to have to see you again. In another oversight hearing, talk about throwing a drowning man anvil or the anchor, which is what Booker did so eloquently. Alex Acosta doesn't surprise me.

You know, he got rewarded for his non-prosecution agreement. that left Epstein effectively on the street even longer, he got rewarded by Trump, of all people, by giving him the Labor Secretary position in the first administration, which he had to leave because of all of the public uproar about his involvement in the Epstein cover-up, and then went off not doing much in Miami ever since. So he doesn't want to remember anything

because it's not going to help him in his career in his late stages. So he didn't remember anything, much the way Galane Maxwell conveniently forgot most of what she said, including emails that she had wrote that Bloomberg got their hands on two weeks ago. So where are we with all of this? The Epstein cover-up scandals swirling around the Trump administration continues unabated. And it's stench, I'll leave it on this bed, the stench of Epstein. If Donald Trump thought, you know what I need right now?

I need a royal dinner. I need horses and I need crowns and I need, you know, people just kissing my ass for a, for a peer, I need that. He gets welcomed at Windsor Castle instead by a mini documentary about his close personal friendship with the pedophile Jeffrey Epstein projected on Windsor Castle by leading donkeys, a resistance group, which plays for about five, we won't play it here, but plays for about five minutes, including a timeline, his comments about Virginia Jufre and his relationship with young girls. That's how that started. There he is. That's all he wanted. He wanted to take measurements for a future golden chariot or carriage that he can have built before he leaves at the White House.

But that's not what happened. Because as we always say, Ben, when you travel, your troubles follow on the plane right behind you and land right behind you. Well, I just think of the contrast as he demolishes the Rose Garden and turns it into Club Rose Garden that belong to We, the People, now it's a club for his rich, right-wing oligarch cabal. I think about the trees, 200 years old, being ripped down from the White House lawn that were planted when Andrew Jackson was president and during the period of Chester Arthur, that they're just ripping apart to build a 90,000 square foot ballroom. Trump said that he was the only donor that he was going to pay for it himself. Remember that? Now apparently he's selling off like little pieces of it, $5 million to companies like large.

I'm not even sure if they're foreign companies, domestic. We have no transparency over it. But for the price of $5 million, you get your name etched on the White House ballroom, which I did a whole hot take on this. I think it's utterly illegal and unlawful. And frankly, I'm pissed that nobody's filed. lawsuit to block the ballroom because to me it's symbolic of Trump's authoritarianism.

It's to me patently illegal. How we have corporations building a ballroom that belongs to the White House, which is we the people. And if anything, it's Congress's power. Congress can't just cede their appropriations, power of funding construction at the White House to private companies that build ballrooms. I mean, you're a temporary resident of that White House and you rip it to shreds. imagine like you're renting an apartment and then you just demolish it and you rebuild the new

one. I mean, what do you think the owner is going to? We're the owner. The American people own the White House. The taxpayers own the White House. And then you have him gallivanting in the UK in golden carriages. It's ridiculous looking. Before we take our break, the Popok, pit briefly on the Eastern District of Virginia lead prosecutor, the United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, who was just, he was fired. He was but he was forced out by the Trump regime because he wouldn't prosecute New York Attorney General Letitia James. So the contrast between kind of Cash Patel doing whatever the hell that was. And then this United States attorney who followed the law, he says, I can't prosecute New York Attorney General of his name.

She didn't commit a crime. And then that was enough for the Trump regime to say, you're out and then to try to find someone who will try to prosecute her, I guess. but at this point the prosecution's tainted where even when they do try to prosecute her now, she's going to say, well, you fired the other guy because he found no evidence on me and it'll likely get dismissed and then a judge will call the Trump regime out and then they'll say, oh, it's some leftist radical George H.W. Bush judge. You know those radical Reagan, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush judges. Popak, just briefly tell us about Virginia and then we'll take a break. Yeah, absolutely. So add Eric Sond.

to a long list of Department of Justice leaders who have said, nope, we're not going to violate the Department of Justice principles of prosecution, the Department of Justice manual, our professional ethics, our duty as a officer of the court to conjure up phony criminal claims or allegations or prosecutions against the political rival of Donald Trump because he tells us to. Cyberd had worked for over 10 years in the Eastern District of Virginia. He had been the counterintelligence chief and one that went after drug dealers. He was supported by both senators in Virginia, Warner and the other one.

Warner and Tim, who's the guy that Tim Kane? That was in May. So for Donald Trump to say, I got rid of him because he's supported by Blue. I'm like, that was May. This is October. You got rid of him because he refused to find a mortgage fraud case where none exists against Letitia James. This is Donald.

Look, we heard about this already. This is the, let me give you the links in the conspiracy chain, the complicity chain. Donald Trump has Tim, Bill Pulte, the Nepo baby heir to the Pulte construction fortune, who bought his way into a position as the, the head of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage liquidity entities.

He has him do a social media post, cherry picking a couple of documents, claiming that everybody in the Democratic Party is committing mortgage fraud. His version of mortgage fraud is you have two primary home residences, two homes or mortgages that you said you were going to live in as your primary residence. You can only have one.

All right. Then the next step of the chain is Donald Trump then retweets it or doesn't mean social media post about it, then Pam Bondi gets a letter that is choreographed to come from Bill Pulte on a criminal referral. She then announces she's opening a criminal referral. She then says it to Ed Martin, who's in charge of the weaponization of the Department of Justice. I know his title is against the weaponization, but he's just the weaponizer of the Department of Justice. She then appoints some sort of other Maga Sinkafant in John Sarkoni up in the Northern District of New York

to open up an investigation against Letitia, James. and her New York Attorney General's office and Martin's going to do the mortgage side and he's going to do the other side and all this is going on. And they get the headlines that they want. Adam Schiff and Letitia James, federal probes opened up against them.

Okay. So we have that. Then you have, you got to get prosecutors to bring the cases. So why Virginia? Everybody who's out of short pants, I think knows that the New York Attorney General lives in New York. She works out of two major offices, one in Albany, New York, in the capital, the other one in New York City. She does not live in Virginia, okay? She bought a property in Virginia,

could have been for her father. She had a niece fill out with a power of attorney some of the closing documents. In those closing documents, someone checked the box that said she was going to live there as her primary residence. I think her father actually was going to live there as a primary residence, but other documentation that the bank had, that Bill Pulte ignored, said that everybody on the lender side knew that this was not her primary residence because the Attorney General of New York doesn't live in Virginia. So no fraud. They give that file to Cybert's office and they go, find a fraud and bring a case. Meaning he's got to not only, he's got to like get a grand jury. More importantly, in order to comply with the Department of Justice Manual and the principles

of federal prosecution. You can't even start an investigation unless you believe there's probable cause to believe that you can sustain a conviction, meaning through appeal, he was like the power of attorney by the niece and with other documents that say the bank knew that this was a second home, and what am I prosecuting? And so he wasn't going to do it. It was a race to see whether he was going to get fired or resigned, but he's not the only one. How many stories have we done on this show?

already. We've got the Eastern District of Tennessee prosecutor who refuses to bring phony charges against the Brago Garcia and gets shown the door. We've got Danielle Sassoon, who in New York was a rock star and considered to be the leading candidate to be, she's an Orthodox Jewish woman prosecutor, who is considered to be the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. she resigns because she's ordered by Emil Bovey, who's now on the Third Circuit Court of Appeals, but was Donald Trump's favorite criminal defense lawyer, to dismiss the indictment against Eric Adams because they had an unholy deal in which Adams would destroy the sanctuary city status of Manhattan in return for saving his bacon. And she said, dismiss the indictment? We're coming to you with a superseding

indictment because we've got more bribery charges. And when she wouldn't do it, she quit, and published an eight-page letter in the New York Times, which we'll talk about at the second, a little bit later on this podcast. So there's a whole series of prosecutors that are just looking at this and going, nope, not doing it. And they're heroes as far as, and I go further, Ben. Anybody that is left now 10 months into this Department of Justice

that's serving in the Department of Justice, this is now, you know what the Department of Justice is, is. And as I've said, it's the most corrupt Department of Justice we've ever had in our history. And you staying there, you are now complicit. And if that means that you are violating your oath as a lawyer, you're violating your oath as a prosecutor, and for you to say, well, I'm just doing my job as a career bureaucrat and civil servant and prosecute, no, no, you're doing the bidding of Donald Trump and his corrupt department of justice. And you are now, Justice, responsible in history's eyes and in the public's eyes as if you were Donald Trump.

Leave now. There's plenty of law firms and public interest groups that would be happy to hire you. Democracy Forward is hiring dozens of people who have left the Department of Justice because they refuse to be used as a tool by Donald Trump's authoritarian abuse of the rule of law. When we come back, I want to talk briefly about what Senator Schiff, former prosecutor told me how this is actually impacting trials as well. well and how it's harming the ability of prosecutors to get convictions in meritorious cases as well. I'll talk about that. We'll talk about Donald Trump's loss in the frivolous $15 billion lawsuit. We'll talk a little bit more about Trump's attack on free speech. And finally, an update on Lisa Cook, the Federal Reserve governor who was unlawfully fired by Donald Trump. And the lower courts

thus far have said, you can't fire her. She's been in place. She's still at the Federal Reserve. A reminder, Michael Popak has started his own law firm, thanks to really all of you who told him he needs to start one. So if you or anybody you know has been injured in a car accident or a trucking accident, if you know someone who's the victim in a wrongful death case or negligence, reach out to the Popockfirm.com or call 877 Popak AF, that's 877 Popak AF or call or go to the Popok firm.com. Also, check out Michael Popock's substack, the LegalAF, substack, wherever you go on substack, just search LegalAF, and help the LegalAF YouTube channel get to 1 million subscribers.

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lawsuit that he filed against the New York Times. New York Times didn't even have to file any opposition, response, motion to dismiss the judge on his own. George H.W. Bush appointee said, this is ridiculous. This is a ridiculous document. This is not a complaint. This looks like some bizarre press release. Don't file these things in my court. I'll give you 28 days to file a new one, but I don't know what this is. This is some political speech you're giving. This is not a complaint. Go back, re-evaluate your life and just mocked Donald Trump.

We'll talk about that briefly. I want to talk about what Senator Schiff told me because it was an interesting perspective that I just hadn't thought about before. What he said is, you know, juries across the country, like we hear about the grand juries in Washington, D.C., don't trust the federal government at all right now. And so criminal defense lawyers who are arguing in favor, who are arguing, you know, in closing arguments or, you know, when these cases go to trial, even when they're not political cases, if it's a drug case, counterterrorism case, espionage case, sex trafficking case, just think about if you're the criminal defense lawyer and you're representing someone accused of sex trafficking. If you are representing someone who's accused of sexual assault, if you are representing someone who's accused of sexual assault, if you are representing someone who's, who's accused of counterterrorism or money laundering or anything, Medicare fraud, you name it. What would your argument be to the jury? Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we see that this is being run by Donald Trump and Cash Patel.

I'm going to read for you the statements that they've been making about the FBI and the DOJ, and they're attacking their own DOJ and their FBI. I, you know, this is a political witch hunt against our client by the regime because they're trying to jack up their numbers for Doge or they're trying to do this. Whatever the angle is, whether it's actually true or not true, you could, as a criminal defense lawyer zealously representing your client, it's, it doesn't matter because Trump's implying that none of his, none of the prosecutions by the Justice Department are going through a valid process. So just think about it this way. The grand jury in Washington, D.C., which has rejected,

it's getting what, to like a dozen cases at this point that have been brought before it. In grand jury situations, there's no criminal defense lawyer. It's just the prosecutor and the grand jury. There's no judge in the room. So the fact that grand juries, are rejecting requests that criminal defendants be indicted. When there's no judge or defense lawyer in the room, now think about cases not just in that D.C., but across the country where you have a criminal defense lawyer. Now imagine a skilled criminal defense lawyer in a Medicare fraud case or a money laundering case or a wire fraud case or a case relating to immigration.

Whatever the case is, you just go up there and you say, look at this. regime. Look at what they're saying. Of course, it's politicized. All you need is one juror to get a hung jury and what prosecutors have told me and what Senator Schiff told me is that, yeah, the actual, like, hardworking prosecutors and an actual hardworking FBI agents, not this cash Patel clown show and the political people that Trump puts in place. Like, they're like, we're struggling to like, even, even get convictions. And also, FBI agents have to then take. testify at these at these trials so imagine you're the FBI agent and you're now being cross-examined for all the stuff that cash Patel and Trump is saying so I just want to give you that perspective

because that's not been getting enough attention and it's creating a lot more uh harder for prosecutors to get convictions and then also the fact that just think about all of the crimes and counterterrorism operations that are not being investigated that's not being done because we don't have qualified people and they got rid of all the top FBI agents. So just think about that as well. So with that said, Popak, focus here on three topics. I'll let you take them all and once if you want. I'll let you go through them.

Talk about the New York Times case. But to me, that links with Trump's FCC really attacking Jimmy Kimmel because it's a attack on the First Amendment generally and it comes in different forms. direct government coercion, intimidation, Brendan Carr, threatening licenses, threatening to shut down networks if you keep on people who do jokes about Trump. And then there's separately, while that takes place and they happen in parallel paths, then Trump sues you as a citizen individually and then links them together, oh, you've got to pay me if you don't want the government to come after you so they're intertwined and then you have

the final layer which is kind of related to what we talked about with eastern virginia prosecutor is then trump just hopes that the supreme court blesses all this ridiculousness so tie it all together all right i'm but try to title together here we go new york time one of my favorite events from this week was Judge Meridae, handpicked by Donald Trump in his courtroom. For this case, when we read the hundreds of paragraphs of complete and utter narcissistic, egotistical BS, you and I and everybody else that looked at it concluded that this was not a serious lawsuit, much the way none of the lawsuits that Donald Trump files against media is a serious lawsuit. But it was to paraphrase, Judge Middlebrooks when he fined Donald Trump a million dollars three years ago with Alina

Haba. It's a political screed masquerading as a lawsuit. When I saw it, I said that whoever is assigned to it, and this is a Republican-appointed G.W. Bush appointee, Chief Judge of the Middle District of Florida, which sits in Tampa. I'm a member of the Middle District. He said that I said, well, it's going to be made quick work. I actually said, this is right off the bat. This is a violation of Rule 8 about short and concise statements, notwithstanding the fact that it's subject to a motion to dismiss, because even with this prolix 230, whatever paragraph complaint, nowhere in there is the proper elements to support defamation and actual malice. In fact, when you got to actual malice, which is a term of art in the law that's required for a public

figure like Donald Trump to prove under a case that has the New York Times' name in it from the 1970s, Sullivan and New York Times, you have to prove not just that the statement is false and there's a whole bunch of stuff, picky you and things like, I wasn't discovered by Mark Burnett on the apprentice, I made the apprentice. Okay, but that's a matter of opinion. That's not a fact. You can't sue somebody over that. But there were just dozens and dozens of paragraphs like that.

But in order to do that, you also have to prove not just false. But you have to show that the other side, the media company in particular, either knew it was false or recklessly disregarded whether it was true or false. That's called actual malice. When I got to the actual malice section, I said, here we go, because it's like a heightened pleading standard for that. What do they got? They got an email. They got a phone call. What do they got?

And all they had was the street version of the Trump derangement syndrome. They obviously hate me. the paper hates me he the guy hates me the writer hates me they're really angry at me they don't like me is that it did i satisfy actual malice now no so i knew this this pleading was not long for this world what i didn't expect and that the judge what we call suesponte on his own initiative took one look at the complaint and went nope and not only kicked it because he could have just kicked it this is a rule eight violation please refile good day You know, or as Trump's spokespeople said, you know,

our blockbuster lawsuit against the New York Times will continue. We just have to comply with some logistics. Comply with some logistics? Okay, here's what, and then I want to get to a clip from Donald Trump. Here's what Judge Meridae, who did not have to write this. This is what he wrote. The reader of the complaint must labor through allegations. labor through allegations, this is a page two,

such as a new journalistic low for the hopelessly compromised and tarnished gray lady, that's the New York Times. The reader must endure an allegation of the desperate need to defame with a partisan spear rather than report with an authentic looking glass. That sounds like a Stephen Miller special. And an allegation that the false narrative

about the apprentice was just the tip of the defendant's melting iceberg of falsehoods, Similarly, Judge Merida reports, in one of many, was one of many often repetitive and laudatory toward President Trump, but superfluous allegations. The pleader states that the apprentice, that's my favorite one, represented the cultural magnitude of the President Trump's singular brilliance, which captured the zeitgeist of our time. And Judge Merrittay says, and this is the signal, and I just did a hot take on it, he's inviting a Rule 11 motion by the New York Times. I think the New York Times is going to say, let's just see what they do in the next pleading, and they will really hit him with a Rule 11 motion for sanctions for bad faith filing. But I think they could do it now. Because when he started not once but twice by saying, as every member of the bar of the federal court knows or is presumed to know, he used that statement not once but twice.

If I'm on the other side, that's an invitation for me to file a Rule 11 motion for sanctions against the lawyer that filed this along with Donald Trump. But here's the part that got all the press, the statement on page four, again, starting with as every lawyer knows, you can't file this. A complaint is not a public forum for vituperation and invective, not a protected platform to rage against an adversary. A complaint is not a megaphone for public relations or a podium for a passionate oration at a political rally or the functional equivalent of the Hyde Park Speaker's Corner? Try it again. So Donald Trump, of course, gets hit with the question

by Jonathan Carl, his arch nemesis. And, of course, the mass drops, this is an administration that said, along with its FCC chairman, that they would stop, they considered to be Biden's suppression of First Amendment speech and the weaponization of his administration and the Department of Justice to go after MAGA First Amendment speech. Have we ever seen an administration more hell-bent on crushing dissent and crushing First Amendment speech

than led by Brendan Carr, the FCC chairman, and Donald Trump? And he's asked about that and about, so it's okay to crush the speech of those who dissent against you, but not against others. And this is right after Carl asked him about the loss on this motion, this order by Judge Meridae. We have the clip. Let's roll the clip. So I want to sell this free speech question because you've said that you restored free speech in America. Yeah.

Is that free speech, including for people who are harshly critical of you, for your political opponents, for people who say things you don't like? I become immune to it. I've become immune to it. There's never been a person that's had more unfair publicity than me. And that's why your network made me $15 million, or $16 million, I believe, to be exact. George, Slopidopoulos. And that's why CPS paid me a lot of money, too. And that's why I sued the New York Times two days ago for a lot of money.

Because I, well, I'm winning. I mean, I'm winning the cases. And the reason I'm winning is because you're guilty, John. You're guilty. ABC is a terrible network, a very unfair network, and you should be ashamed of yourself. NBC is equally bad. I don't know who's worse. I think they're equally bad.

And, you know, for you to stand there and act so innocent and ask me a question like that. But look, you paid a big price because you were dishonest, John. The reason I won that lawsuit was because you were dishonest. You were proven to be dishonest. And so you can't sit back and just say, oh, well, what do you think? You know, like you're some wonderful person. You're not a wonderful person. Frankly, you're a terrible reporter.

All right. So the thing he's talking about for ABC is that George Stephanopoulos, when he was interviewing E. Jean Carroll, used the term rapist instead of sexual abuser for Donald Trump. And that led ABC, owned by Disney, to stroke a check for $15 million to bail out their journalists instead of defending him because they were worried about all back to the FCC. This always ties back to the FCC. The FCC regulates media outlets, television, and others, and ABC owned by Disney cares about their media assets. They don't care about their journalistic integrity.

They never have. And so they paid $15 million rather than fight. The sad part is, I just had Ben Wisner on from the American Civil Liberties Union, they would win these cases in federal court. If they would just go to federal court and get a federal court judge, they would win on all of the precedent. And even this Supreme Court, MAGA right wing, would be hard pressed to crush First Amendment speech the way that he's doing it. But they don't do it, hoping that he'll go away. Then they didn't go away because they came back with Jimmy Kimmel. The only reason ABC Disney took Kimmel off the air is because there's a $6.2 billion transaction at the heart of it,

which is their leading TV station affiliate who owns 250 TV stations is trying to get an approval to take over a 50 station merger candidate, one of their rivals, and needs the FCC's approval. So they leaned on ABC to get rid of Kimmel because Brendan Carr and Donald Trump

saw this as an opportunity in the wake of Charlie Kirk's death to get rid of Jimmy Kimball. Think about how thin-skinned the president of the United States, States is that he cares about what late night television says about him so much that he needs to take Seth Myers and him Comedy Central's next. Comedy Central is owned by a corporate parent. You know, I don't know how, I don't want them off the air, but I don't know how South Park still on the air and John Stewart still on the air and the rest of them. But if they would fight back

in court, they would win. So we have to start getting the corporate media to start defending journalism and freedom of the press the way that we do here, you know, with our comments and commentary. And Brendan Carr is going to be the subject of a lawsuit. Right now it started as a FOIA request by Democracy Forward asking for every email, every calendar entry, every communication between the White House and FCC about going after ABC for the Jimmy Kimmel incident and anybody else. Look, we just had the White House think it was inappropriate to have the Biden administration, a couple of people on the Biden administration, call up and tell some of the media, don't run COVID, you know, the alternate view of COVID vaccine. And that led to a series

of decisions that, that said, yeah, we don't really like that. We don't like when you try to get the NRA to lose their banking relationships. What are you going to do here? Donald Trump's threatened by a monologue by Jimmy Kimmel. See, here I think he's overplayed his hand. Leave it to the, you know, that's the gift. Leave it to the Republicans and Magazine. to overplay their hand while they were winning a new cycle. Now they've overdone it with Kimmel, and the rest is coming out. And as you said, I agree with Schiff completely that he's so trashed the Department of Justice's reputation and its prosecutorial integrity is left in tatters, that grand jury sense it,

jury sense it, they can't get indictments, they can't get convictions, because nobody's believing a word that they said, especially in the cities that are the states that are blue. and so now we've got a two-tier justice system. The other thing that they're not believing, you know, or the other thing that connects back to the attack on the freedom of the press and the First Amendment is by undermining the Department of Justice and by making statements the way Donald Trump is making it, you're providing a gift to the defense.

Vindictive prosecution is a defense. And if you go after and you have these prosecutors, as we said earlier, resign in protest. That is used by the defense that said, this is vindictive prosecution. The prosecutor on the case said there's no case. And now they're going after their political rival. And that provides a gift to the defense,

just as Cash Patel talking about the shooting suspect for Charlie Kirk and talking about his DNA evidence undermines the case for the prosecution. Same thing here. And everything that Donald Trump says, he can't help himself, obviously. He has some sort of. of mental disease. If anybody has Trump derangement syndrome, it's Trump. He just can't stop talking. And all of these clips right now that you and I run on legal AF, they end up as footnotes

in motions to dismiss and in briefing that's sent into federal courts about the animus and the initiative that's being hit on the First Amendment and those that practice it by Donald Trump. He's not helped. But we saw this. How many times, Ben, did we talk about the evidence that he created in real time that was used against him in cases, including his criminal cases. Yeah, well, that's why, you know, in connection with the course and scope of him being the president, being in the Oval Office, you can never get his deposition, but you basically get his deposition every day. He gives you the incriminating admissions or the liability-inducing admissions that you then bring into court. And it's crystal clear that they're not being shy

about the authoritarian intention in the same sentence in the clip that you showed where Donald Trump says, yeah, I'm immune to people making fun of me. Well, you can't do it. I'm going to go after you. Like in the same sentence, it's like it's psychotic. It's actually like psychic. And I'm not trying to use that term lightly and let him off because I understand the severity of mental illness. and he needs to be held accountable for his intentional and malicious conduct. But like, like, he is not, he's he's, he's not a well human being. Like, he's, he's a deeply pathologically disturbed thing that civilized society should not countenance.

Like, we should not act like that's the way adults behave. I mean, it's like literally a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a man baby running around in a diaper, you know, essentially behaving in ways that are, that are just unbecoming, that are not, that's not how adults or leaders or role models should behave. It just isn't. And that's why when the judge acted with moral clarity in the order in the New York Times case and mocked it and said, I was like, thank you, because moral clarity to me is the word. In addition to legal clarity, a lot of my involvement in politics and creating a news network and just doing this is a frustration that there's a lack of moral clarity. And all of this

both sidesism is felt, you know, is being perpetuated by the media. And I'm like, this guy's just not acting normal. Like he's not acting lawfully or normally. And I'm sick and tired of acting like, oh, well, that's, that's Trump, like he's some avatar in some humorous movie. No, he's a wrecking ball in lives. And I just want to see dignified and distinguished and smart and intelligent and thoughtful and nice and empathetic human beings in leadership position. If I were to define what my political ideology is, it's pretty much that at its core as a floor, as well as with democracy.

Just finally, Popak, briefly, if you can, give an update on Lisa Cook before we go. Yeah, that's happy to do that. By the way, while we came on the air, speaking of the attack on the First Amendment, get this, the Department of War, this is going to be the subject of a lawsuit. You and I will cover soon,

whether it's brought by ACLU or Democracy Forward or one of the media outlets. Maybe we'll bring the suit. The Department of War, Department of Defense, by Pete Hegsteth, just issued a new 17-page document. that NPR got their hands on about what journalists must sign in order to cover the Department of Defense. And here, listen to this Orwellian phrase, Ben, buried in the 17 pages.

The DOW, the newly rebranded, which I don't think they can do, the Department of Defense remains committed to transparency to promote accountability and public trust. However, DOW information must be approved for public release by an approval. appropriate authorizing official before it is released, even if it's unclassified. Okay. So we're transparent, but we need, much like Pravda and Putin and all the other propagandists, we need to screen what you're going to say about the Department of Defense. This is going to lead to lawsuits.

We're not going to sit for it, and we're going to bring it into court and let federal judges who are chomping at the bit to save our democracy in First Amendment and let them make the appropriate rulings. Once we get there, that the rulings will be in our favor, the appellant rulings will be in our favor, and then we're going to have to put the Supreme Court on the, on tender hooks or on the horns of a dilemma about, well, I really want to help this Trump out, but there is this thing called the First Amendment that we are, that we viretly protect. So, but we got to do that, we got to do. We got to get to the courts and make this happen. And as, and as Ben Weiser told me from the ACLU. When bad things happen, you've got to make them happen slower. We've got to slow down

Donald Trump with these lawsuits so that we can get to the midterms politically, so that we can win at the ballot box, the hearts and minds of the American people, and as a springboard towards 2028 and the return of the Democrats to power is in the presidency. And in the meantime, much like Donald Trump slowed down his criminal cases long enough for him to reclaim the White House, got to slow him down and that's where the case is coming. Speaking of slowing things down. So Lisa Cook, the reason Lisa Cook on the Federal Reserve to transition here is being attacked by Donald Trump is because one vote gets him nine. One vote gets him nine. Right now, he only has three votes on the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. Without the fourth vote on the

board of governors, he can't take control of the regional banks and their president. which, along with the seven members of the Board of Governors, five off of the 12 regional banks create the Federal Open Markets Committee, which set interest rates. If you don't control the other votes, you'll never control interest rates, which is Donald Trump's ultimate thing. So this is not about Lisa Cook. This is about how Donald Trump, through getting rid of Lisa Cook, then gains control of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. He fires the presidents of the regional banks and then he's able to get nine or more he's able to get nine out of the 12 votes in his favor to set interest rates and lisa cook is fighting back so she she gets she wins twice

trial court judge judge cobb who still has jurisdiction over the case for now says by firing her on the cause that you claim about this phony mortgage she didn't say phony this mortgage fraud double primary home thing you know that's not what is required for four cause termination of a board of governor, that's somebody on the board of governors, and you violated her due process because you can't do a mean social media post by Bill Pulte and then take that off and running because she didn't say anything for five days, she got her due process. It goes up to the last week, it goes up to the three-judge panel of an appellate court, and they come back two to one and say she didn't get due process. We don't even have to touch for cause termination requirements

because she never got due process to put on her case. So we're going to keep her in her chair the next day, or the next 48 hours later, she's voting, along with 11 other people, and Donald Trump's latest person, Stephen Mirren, who didn't leave his day job working for the White House, is now inside the tent voting on interest rates. And they vote. Everybody looked at the Trump economy and said it sucks. Even Stephen Mirren, who works in the Trump White House, said it sucks more than the others. Because he didn't have any access really to the Federal Reserve data, but he had access to the White House data. So he raised his hand and said, can we have a bigger cut, meaning the economy is worse than U-11 think it is? So they cut, as we predicted, as I've been

talking about for two months, they cut the interest rate a half a point. Lisa Cook, we waited around to see when are they going to file their emergency motion to the United States Supreme Court. We knew it was coming. Donald Trump is winning. Get this bet. 84% of his emergency motions on appeal to the United States Supreme Court, he's the winner. 50% was Biden's track record. Somebody tell me how 34% Delta does not indicate partisan bias by the right wing of the Supreme Court. I mean, they always siding with Trump, never siding with Biden. I mean, Biden just made poor arguments every time. Come on.

let's let's let's at least be honest in our conversation shall we so we were like what is he going to do it well he wasn't able to get her out of the room for that meeting and we were figuring i was figuring he was waiting for another bad news cycle and he got another bad news cycle because he gets them every day he's like file it so they file it and they asked for it to me this is only over the stay the stay though means destroying the status quo because she's in the job she he said he fired her but nobody really believed it and she went to the she went to work. So in order to get her out, that would change the status quo, which appellate courts are not supposed to do. Roberts didn't initially issue the stay. He's the judge, Chief Justice Roberts

is the first judge over D.C. matters to make a decision. He's, he wants to be briefed about the stay. So they filed their emergency brief that says Judge Cobb and the lower appellate court was all wrong. She doesn't have any Fifth Amendment rights for due process. Even if she did, she got it. And even if the four-cause issue is a thing, the four-cause is whatever we say it is. Because since Congress didn't define it, therefore, Trump gets to say, cause, and you're out, which can't possibly be what the Supreme Court meant by. You can't fire the Federal Reserve except for cause. It can't just be this going through the motions of saying, all right, I don't like her tie.

That's the four cause. And you can't review me. So the issue now on the emergency appeal is whether the Supreme Court has five votes to take Lisa Cook out of her job while the appeal and the lower court continues developing the facts. Yes or no? And as of the time we're on the air, they haven't yet rule, which I'm not sure is a great sign for Donald Trump. Now, if and but between the time tonight and tomorrow, something happens on LegalAF substack where I'm doing two lives a day, I will update everybody. very, very quickly on it. My gut, I want to hear your opinion on it, Ben, of course. My gut is that Roberts, and I don't think there's five votes to stay and take her out of her job, which would go to the

heart of whether they really are protecting the independence of the Federal Reserve off of what the Supreme Court said in May in the Wilcox decision, or they're not. What do you think? Well, look, if they were to stay the district court's decision, you could imagine. You could imagine, in the warped logic where the Supreme Court continues to kind of move the explanations where they'll say, oh, well, as it relates to the chairman of the Federal Reserve, not a board of governor. So that's where the independence, you know, must arise. But to your point, we've said it before, if you give Donald Trump an inch, he asks for more.

I've said it. He takes your life if you give him the inch. We saw that with ABC. You can't make deals with them. Like any extorter, when you hear about people who extort others, right, one of the reasons you can't give into an extorter, even if you kind of just want to make it go away, right? Or even if you just don't want to deal with it, or even if you're like, you know, what else am I going to do? Or I'm going to, I got to protect this interest or whatever. The mindset of an extorter is they then come, they then see you as God.

it you're weak they come back for you again right that's that's what the mob does that's what the mafia oh he paid me okay i'm going to do it again and again and again and again so you have you have no choice you know i guess your choices you can either just shut it down run away and don't do what you're doing you know but you can't think you're going to live in a world where you make a one-time payment or a one-time deal and then the extorter will be cool with that and you can exist. You're just going to get shakedown over and over and over again. So ABC makes the ridiculous settlement initially. Oh, got it. I could keep coming back to ABC over and over and over and over again. Same thing with CBS. Now with the Supreme Court also. Got it. They gave me this. Okay, they're giving

me a little more. Okay. They said that the Federal Reserve is independent unless it's four cause termination. All right, I'll gin up a four cause termination. I'll say that Lisa Cook was I'm terminating her for cause and essentially Popak the issue is if they bless his ability to just on his own discretion declare something a four cause termination then there's really no distinction between a four cause and without cause because it's just his discretion about what constitutes it regardless and then no agency is independent and then they create the precedent to then file the chairman of the Federal Reserve. The moment they give him Lisa Cook, he files, he fires Jerome Powell.

He goes, Jerome Powell wasted $3 billion on the Federal Reserve Building, even though we know that it was actually a bunch of Trumpers who were the ones requesting more of the expensive upgrades when you go through it. There's nothing wrong with anything he did about the Federal Reserve Building. But then he goes after Powell for that. That's the next step in this. And so, you know, I don't know what this. I really don't.

I mean, the Supreme Court's horrific. Like, they're really the most, like, they, they are in many ways even more responsible than Trump or Trump. And really, John Roberts has blood on his hands. Like, what a despicable legacy, that fool. I think that traitor to the judiciary and to the country, you know, he's one of these guys who was, you know, viewed as like a George W. Bush. more moderate guy, you know, with the right temperament for it, a traditional old school conservative

is what they said, but a guy who's really rolled over and turned the Supreme Court into the types of Supreme Courts we see in foreign countries where fascism exists, where it's just a rubber stamp. That's, that's Roberts' legacy. And it's, it's disgusting. I mean, probably the worst chief judge in the history of the United States of America. And when we have a national reckoning with this period of time, you know, he's right up there with Trump. He's right up there with Trump. Anyway, we'll leave you with that.

I don't know, Popak, I don't have an answer to your question. I'm not trying to be evasive. I just, I don't know. Look, I think what people respect about what you and I have been doing together for five years is that while we give you our best guest an estimate, when we're talking about trying to plot what the Supreme Court's going to do, you know it's increasingly difficult because they'll just reverse engineer and gin up a response an opinion that doesn't that doesn't comply with their prior rulings they'll use a tool for their toolbox today

it's i'll do originalists whatever the framers wanted in 17 whatever no we can't do that we have to have to look at it's a major question for the supreme court no we're too close to an election it's the Purcell Doctrine. It's these made-up doctrines that are not embedded in the U.S. Constitution that they use as a tool to allow them to reverse engineer to the political response that they want. And we're honest that we're very, look, there's things that we can say with certainty. The judge in Tampa is going to be dismissing one way or the other that New York Times case, you know, or this judge is going to is going to rule in this way. There was a thing recently, Ben, I'll end it with this. Judge Chutkin. And we like Judge Chutkin. We respect her, especially how she handled under a much personal attack and pressure. The election interference criminal case for Donald Trump handled it eloquently in a dignified way, showing her judicial chops. But she just had to admit that even though the Trump administration likely violated the civil rights and civil liberties of migrants being sent to Africa and abused them, she lost jury.

jurisdiction because they shipped them off. This sounds familiar. The Trump administration shipped them off in the middle of the night. And even though she wanted to make some comment about it, she lost jurisdiction. And so that was the right thing for her to do. Just as, because we didn't get to touch on it, but let me just shove it in here. Just as Judge Kelly, another Republican and a Trump appointee just had to declare earlier in the week that the Trump administration effectively lied to him

and lied to Judge Sukhnan and the prior judge about 600 migrant Guatemalan children in a refugee resettlement program who were at one o'clock in the morning, this is in his order, which I have posted on LegalAF Substack, one o'clock in the morning rousted out of their beds with sleepy heads to be put on a plane ship back to Guatemala

where they could face certain death without due process before the immigration rights advocates and the attorneys found out about it, ran into court on Labor Day weekend, and grounded those planes through 15 different Judge Suknan and emergency orders because she didn't trust the Department of Justice either. And the lie is, back to lying and the credibility of the Department of Justice in front of juries and federal judges, we were back to Drew Ensign, who's lied to Judge Zinnis, who lied to Judge Bozberg, about planes and migrants and lied to Judge Sukhnanin and to Judge Kelly when he said, Judge, I don't even know why we're here on this lawsuit to ground the planes and give them

due process. The reason the judge said is because the government violated the child trafficking laws of the United States in doing this. He said, but we're just reunifying families, Judge. It's a pilot program. He actually said this with a straight face, Ben. It's a pilot program putting families back again. They all want the kids back until there was a report, a whistleblower report that was delivered to the judge in which they said that none of the families wanted them back. Most of them couldn't be contacted. And some of the families said, bring them back. There's a reason we sent our children to another country and away from Guatemala because they're subject of kidnapping threats or death or death threats or rape or child abuse or they're in a home of child abuse. Setting them

back. And the judge said, yeah, it fell like a house of cards, his quote. When that means the lawyer lied about it, about the parents welcoming these kids home with open arms. Think of what we're parents. Think about what you have to do to feel that your kid's life is better off in the United States than with you, with other people, than with their parents in Guatemala in this case. And Judge Kelly caught the Department of Justice in a lie and issued the preliminary injunction permanently. But then Judge Chutkin, who's a Democrat appointee who Donald Trump attacked as a Marxist, she's got a rule that the kids went away, the people went away already. So she has no jurisdiction.

So there we can do our fair reporting. Supreme Court, they're not even intellectually consistent within their own decisions. So how are we supposed to make? But all we can do is sort of say, this is how it should come out. And if it comes out differently, we'll come back and report on it. There you have it, everybody. Thank you, everybody for watching this episode of LegalAF. Make sure you reach out to the POPAC law firm if you or anybody you know has a case.

If someone you know was the victim in a wrongful death case, they died because of the negligence of somebody else. Or if you've been involved in a car accident or a trucking accident or the victim of medical malpractice, sexual harassment or sexual assault, visit thepokfirm.com. That's thepopokfirm.com or call 877 Popok AF for a free case review today. 877 Popok AF or go to the Popok firm.com for a free case review today. Give him a call. Also, check out Michael Popock's substack, the legal AF substack, and also check out Michael Popak's YouTube channel, the LegalAF YouTube channel.

Thank you everybody so much for watching. We appreciate you here on the Midas Touch Network. We will see you next time. Have a great rest of you. Thank you. Thank you.