Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Legal AF RESPONDS to MAJOR Legal Developments

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Karen Friedman Agnifilo is joined by MeidasTouch Legal Commentator, Dina Doll (sitting in for Popok) for the Midweek Edition of the top-rated Legal AF podcast. On this episode? 1) Trump attempts to the Freeze Government Assistance Funding and is immediately blocked in court 2) More Trump executive orders are met with lawsuits 3) DOJ shake up continues as Trump fires prosecutors who worked on Trump cases and moves to dismiss DOJ Appeal for Mar a Lago case; plus so much more at the intersection of law and politics. Support Our Sponsors: Lumen: Head to https://Lumen.me/legalaf and use code: LEGALAF to get 20% off your lumen today! Graza: Go to https://graza.com and use code: LEGALAF to get 10% off your Graza Starter Kit and get to cookin' your next chef quality meal! Fatty15: Get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription Starter Kit by going to https://fatty15.com/LEGALAF and using code LEGALAF at checkout. Honey Love: Get 20% Off your entire order with our exclusive link: https://honeylove.com/LEGALAF Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Stay in the know. Download the free CBC News app or visit cbcnews.ca. or visit cbcnews.ca. Welcome to the midweek edition of Legal AF, joined by our frequent co-host, stand-in, Dina Dahl. Good to see you, Dina. Michael Popok is on the road and unable to make it this week. It's so great when you are able to join us

and make this the legal AF girl version. It's good to see you. How are you doing? Oh, great to see you too. As we were preparing for the show, it seems like the legal news is changing every second. So it's so excited to talk about the many, many topics we have. Yes, so much is going on and so much is happening. It's like fast and furious, hard to keep up with, whether it's watching the confirmation hearing today of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. or whether it's trying to keep up with all his, frankly, lies slash new stances on things that are very different than what he has said in the past. And he's, things that are recorded, written down, et cetera.

It's just entirely impossible to know what the truth is at this point. But whether it's that or the chaos surrounding Trump's memo, one of his executive orders where he's freezing all grant funding from OMB, essentially trying to impound congressional funds that have been allocated to be spent and causing extreme chaos. There's been court battle and rescinding and all sorts of stuff that we're going to update people on this because it is very complicated and very confusing

about what's happening. Thankfully, there are people who are suing on behalf of the American people, frankly, and the lawlessness of Donald Trump. So we're going to talk about that today in some detail. Also the deportations that are going on and what is happening in the world of deportations and Trump wants to use Guantanamo Bay for migrants, for 30,000 migrants. Wow, that's really intense and not sure that's going to, that they can handle that. And then, you know, the other

thing I wanted to talk to you about is really the firings at the Department of Justice, Dina. There's been so many, so much restructuring and firing there that this really is retributive. You know, it's really him seeking retribution. It's not merit based. It's, it's, he's asking people to swear a loyalty oath to him and as opposed to the Constitution. And he is firing people who have civil service protection. He's going against people who are his perceived enemies. And he's really sending a message to people that, look, get with the program. You're either a loyalist to me, or you're going to get fired.

And worse than that, some people like Mark Milley and what's his name? So the tip of my tongue. Pardon? Fauci or? Fauci is another one. Yes, there were three. And then the third, Mike Pompeo.

Thank you, Salty. There were three that he took away. Their security clearances and their security that was frankly their detail, their security detail that was protecting them. And by doing that, you are sending a message to people who work for him currently, because don't forget, these are people who worked for Donald Trump. These were people who served him. He's sending a message basically, do what I tell you to do or I'm coming after you.

So it's really terrible, the things that Donald Trump is doing. He is crashing the airplane that we are all flying in as the American people, and we are watching it. And thankfully, there are checks and balances that will hopefully hold and so far seem to be a little bit. So I hope that that's what ends up happening, but there's a lot to talk about today especially with With all that's going on. I mean also in the news by the way

I saw that Eric Adams the New York City mayor Trump is thinking of pardoning him I mean talk about a talk about a like, you know Eric Adams essentially went to Mar-a-Lago, kissed the ring, and now they're going to drop the case against him. This has been brought by the United States Attorney's Offices here in New York. There's multiple investigations, both in the Eastern District and the Southern District, and in the Manhattan DA's office. And he's going to end up, I think, pardoning him on the Justice Department ones, the federal ones. We'll see where

that goes. But interestingly, Bob Menendez, who happens to be a Democrat senator, he was sentenced to 11 years today, right? So he's literally going, it's like you kiss the ring, you get pardoned. If you don't, then you go to prison. It's like you kiss the ring, you get pardoned. If you don't, then you go to prison. It's so different than the way justice is supposed to work. And the way justice, traditionally in this country, even the symbol of justice is a woman holding scales, right? And a blindfold, because justice is supposed to be blind.

It's supposed to be meted out without fear or favor. And the department of justice and the FBI, it's always been independent. And even though it's in the part of the executive branch, it's always been independent and Donald Trump is throwing those rules, those norms completely out the window, and it's all about loyalty. It's all about showing fealty to the king. And frankly, the United States Supreme Court is implicit and has basically given him permission to do this

without any consequence. So why not push the limits of the law? Why not do whatever he wants to do? Let people sue. Let's let the courts challenge these things. I'll win some of them, right? Or get it to the Supreme Court is what he's saying. And they'll do my bidding for me, but I'm going to do it. I'm going to push it. And there's no consequence, none, because he is absolutely immune. He will

say he's just doing it under as president. He's absolutely immune from all of these things that are going to have real world impacts on people's lives, whether it's mass deportations, whether it's people who are going to lose their job who work for the federal government and their livelihood, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what these things impact, whether it's his tariffs that are going to impact farms around the United States and other people who work hard. It almost doesn't matter anymore because he can do whatever he wants. Even if it's clearly against the law, he can still do it without any consequence. And that's what's so scary here is he's just going to do it all

and say that he's doing it as president, and he will be immune. I mean, it's just crazy. I think that we'll have to see, right? I mean, I definitely think they spoke about the criminal prosecution and their immunity case. But I'm holding out hope, even with this Supreme Court, that I mean, there are other laws in place.

And I know we're going to get into this freezing of the memo. But there is a lot of congressional acts that are in place to restrict the administration. Will the Supreme Court say the president cannot be limited by any law whatsoever? I don't know if that's the case. So even with this Supreme Court, he may not get everything he wants this time around,

because we're not talking about crimes anymore. We're talking about there literally not being co-equal branches of government. If the Supreme Court gives Trump everything he wants, we're no longer a co-equal branch of government. So I'm holding out hope that these civil lawsuits, which are coming fast and furious against him, involving real acts that have been in place for a while, you know, won't get demolished, will stand. You know, this is gonna be the test. How strong are these civil laws that we have in place to rein in somebody like Trump?

Yeah, you're 100% right, I agree with you. Let's start with the RFK confirmation hearing today. I happen to watch a lot of it. And it was really jarring to me that this is somebody who is going to be head of HHS, Health and Human Services. First of all, I was shocked that it would be somebody who's not a doctor, but maybe that's common. But you would think it's you'd have a doctor or a scientist, right? Someone with a PhD who really understands this stuff, as opposed to somebody like him who his own cousin, did you see Caroline Kennedy came forward and wrote a letter to the Senate that she read and put it on video? I mean, she said, I've known him my whole life. We grew up together and he is not to be trusted. He's a predator. Essentially, what she was saying was his home was always the den of inequity, that his cousins and brothers

and sisters, he led them into a life of drug addiction and all sorts of crazy things. Also saying that he was cruel to animals, right? That he would put, I think it was like mice and other small and baby chicks in a blender and while they were alive and laugh about it while he's blending them to feed to his birds of prey that he kept his pets.

I mean, that just anyone who finds joy and I'm not saying, you know, whatever, I've seen people feed live animals to other animals, you know, and or bugs and that kind of thing, like that, that is what is done. But someone who relishes in the joy of blending an alive baby chick is just, I mean, honestly, I can't think of anything worse and more disgusting. And she just talked about some really disturbing, disturbing things that he was saying, including the fact that he pedals these these conspiracy theories and lies about things that science has

absolutely been proven 12 ways to Sunday are effective and safe and and It's just shocking to me that this is somebody who might be confirmed now The Senate has a job they have to give advice and consent to the president. He get points, but they have a hearing because they get to do that. If they vote for this man, that's gonna be very disturbing. I mean, science shouldn't be political, right? Science should just be science. It should be above the fray when it comes to politics.

But that was, what did you think? Did you, about your takeaway from the hearing? Yeah, I mean, he seemed like he tried to lie or backtrack against statements he made. Pretty much every answer was the chemicals in our water and our food. And frankly, I think a lot of Americans do agree with him on that part, like if he was literally

just trying to change that. But he wants to do away with vaccines because if we have healthy food, that we won't have polio, you know, we had polio before chemicals in our food, right? I mean, he's like a one man pony or whatever. Doesn't know enough, they were asking questions about, you know, our healthcare system, he really didn't have enough answers.

And in terms of, you know, the video, you know, I think a lot of people, it was shocking. She was really, really blunt. I think a lot of people were shocked that she came out that way. She's very quiet, really, typically involved in terms of politics.

Once you say that about your relative, I think you have pretty much cut off ties with that person. But I think the most important thing, and she kind of referenced it in the video, and then again, I really hope the senators bring out the fact that he has tried now twice to bring cases to the Supreme Court saying that doctors have a free speech constitutional right to lie to their patients.

There's doctors in California and Washington who had their licenses suspended or revoked because of misinformation and lies they told around the COVID vaccine treatments for COVID. And RFK Jr. said to the Supreme Court, they shouldn't have their licenses suspended. This is a free speech. So here you have somebody in charge of our whole health care system who is literally advocating for doctors to be able to lie to their patients. I mean, we're already dealing with misinformation in the media.

Who can we trust? It's sad. As a former journalist, it's sad to me how distrustful most of the media has become. Are we now going to have that be that you cannot trust your doctor? You can't trust your lawyer? I mean, we have licensing requirements about what we can and can't say to our client, let's say.

So this is like a major, to me, like should be disqualifying in itself. And so as much as she attacked his character, her alluding to the fact that he's still in a lawsuit against the HPV vaccine and so will profit, you know, from anything related against the HPV vaccine. It's those things that I'm hoping there will be enough Republican senators to vote against him because, yeah, he's clearly unqualified and really dangerous for the job. Yeah, I completely agree with you. Some things that they pointed out during the hearing today was that he claims that he never said

that exposures to pesticides can cause someone to become trans and to have gender dysphoria is what he, I think he said. And he denied ever saying that, but there's actually a clip that proves that he did say it. I mean, so it's things like that that he has said, that that's what he thinks, you know, that that's what happens. There's no science that shows anything like that that what that he has said that that's what he thinks, you know, that that that's what happens. There's no science that that shows anything like that. He says that, and he didn't deny this, that he thinks Lyme disease is a highly, it's a bioengineered weapon, a bio weapon that was bioengineered. I mean, again, not backed by science. He went to Samoa apparently and counseled people not to be vaccinated for the measles.

And then there was a measles outbreak there that where 83 people died. He refuses to say measles are deadly. He'll say that even before the vaccine, it wasn't deadly. And he's against the World Health Organization. He says they're controlled by pharmaceutical companies. He thinks pandemics are fabricated. He says he's never been anti-vax,

but in a book that he wrote, he said the opposite and said that he thinks shots are doing more harm than good. Meanwhile, his kids are vaccinated. So it's just unbelievable that, oh, he also said, apparently COVID-19 is a genetically engineered disease that targets blacks and whites, but spares Ashkenazi Jews. I mean, just strange beliefs that, you know, there's no, I don't know any doctors or scientists

who are backing him. And it really just flies in the face of what we know and what should happen and who should be the head of HHS. That's just my opinion. And hopefully the Senate will see that and see that this shouldn't be political. And it's fascinating when you've got someone's family member. Like to come, as you pointed out, when you come out against a family member,

you're basically saying, you know, it's a big deal. You're suffering all ties forever. Right. What is it about Trump who, and like Pete Hegseth's mother came out against him? Do you remember that? And, you know, you've got these people who they're family members, their own conscience is coming forward saying, I have to come forward.

Even someone like Caroline Kennedy, who is notoriously quiet and somewhat neutral, even though she's been an ambassador to multiple countries on behalf of the United States, she's not someone I would say is overtly political, right? Despite her family ties to politics. So for her to come forward and say something like that, she must have really felt she needed to.

And I think it says a lot. And hopefully in this particular instance, like I said, science should trump any politics. And our health depends on it. Our children depend on it, right? They can't, this type of experiment of tearing down the system that he wants to do throughout the government,

you can't do that with people's lives. And people's lives are on the line here. Yeah, I think Pete Hedges's mother wrote the email privately and then the New York Times published it. So somebody she sent it to. I see. Or maybe she, you know, behind the scenes.

And then when it was revealed, she did support him in the press. But what she wrote about him was, you know, the fact that she said that he was an abuser of women. Yeah. It was pretty intense. Yeah, I agree. I totally agree. It's just surprising to me that RFK Jr. has gotten this far.

There's one more day of hearings coming up. And then I suppose they'll vote, and we'll see what ends up happening. But let's turn to this OMB order that basically froze all grants and funding that was going out to the federal government that really caused a huge, huge stir this week. But before we do that, I'm going to just quickly go to our first commercial of one of our pro-democracy sponsors. We're so fortunate that they choose Legal AF as someone that they want to sponsor. And so let's just take our first break.

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You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription starter kit by going to fatty15.com slash LegalAF and use code LegalAF at checkout. All right, we're back. And I want to talk about this freeze that OMB, they put out a two page memo, essentially, freeze let's just go first go through the list of what happened. They put it Trump puts out this executive order, essentially a

two page memo, freezing all grants, okay. Then, as Sam Stein says, and saltyty just put up here, this tweet, this says chaos and panic ensues. Then OMB puts out a 1.5 page Q&A trying to clarify more confusion. Congressional Republicans defend it all after the Democrats go off. The White House blames the media for the confusion.

And then OMB puts out a one-line memo rescinding the freeze. It goes on from there because after that, they rescind it through a memo. But then this 20-something-year-old press old press person who works for a spokesperson who works for Trump, she basically said that the OMB order is, you know, basically, we're rescinding the order because of this court case because the Democrats brought a court, you know, people brought a court case saying you can't do that, right? They brought a court case saying you can't do that right they brought a lawsuit and so she came on and and basically said okay well we'll rescind it for the lawsuit but the order still it still stands right still don't waste money whatever whatever her confusing words were well the judge you know so apparently the

people who brought the suit came forward and said excuse me that makes no sense you know how is it that they rescind this order trying to mood out the came forward and said, excuse me, that makes no sense. You know, how is it that they rescind this order trying to moot out the case, right? Trying to say there's no need for a legal case anymore now that it's rescinded, okay? And so they tried to get the judge to dismiss the case, but the judge, Judge McConnell said

that they are going to grant the restraining order saying the withdrawal of this hugely ambiguous OMB order is only a distinction without a difference based on comments by the president's press secretary. You gotta love it, right? That she basically admits out loud that, oh, we're still doing it even though we're rescinding the order,

but we still mean it. And so that's the chaos that's going on right now. You know, we're still doing it, even though we're rescinding the order, but, you know, we still mean it. And so that's the chaos that's going on right now. But it, you know, all Medicare money and everything froze. People, every single person was so confused. They didn't know it affected child care, Head Start, home care, school lunch, WIC, Medicare, Pell Grant loans, veteran health care, veteran loans, fund for suicide prevention, homeless shelter support, equality, equity, diversion, and inclusion programs.

This is what he literally attacked and tried to, and all the funding stopped momentarily while there was confusion about that. And so all these programs that people depend on were in the balance. And it's just, but thankfully, there's these groups that are suing on behalf of of the American people. There's there's about there's around 22 states that come forward

and file multiple lawsuits around in multiple jurisdictions on various executive orders and various issues. And as well as certain pro-democracy groups that are coming forward and bringing these lawsuits. And thank God they are, because that's the very meaning of checks and balances. Yeah. And this is kind of what I was talking about before. This is where we get to test our civil laws, essentially, because those nonprofits that sued trying to and got that initial administrative

stay yesterday said that this was a violation of the Administrative Procedures Act, which interestingly is also what the unions are suing over his Schedule F reclassification of the employees, which we'll talk about in a little bit. So these congressional acts are being tested, right? This is all getting tested. We do have laws in place to rein in the power, essentially, of the president. He's trying to do it.

But this is different. This, I don't think the immunity applies to this. This is more the checks and balances. So we'll see how this all turns out. But in addition, there is another layer of what happened. So you had the memo, you had the judge putting a stay, and then the White House trying to backtrack, and then this temporary restraining order.

And then there's reporting that says that there's this confidential memo in this office of OMB that says, no, they actually want there to be a court fight, or Trump actually wants a court fight over this because this is Trump's chance to expand executive authority, essentially, that they want this court fight. And because they probably figure that the Supreme Court will be friendly to expanding the power of the court.

But I thought that was kind of interesting reporting because his office did argue in court trying to not get the temporary restraining order, trying to say it was not necessary because this memo was rescinded. So I don't even, if they have a larger strategic plan, let's just say they're not executing it very well. I mean, this is the chaos.

They try to use campaign slogans as a policy tool. The reason why this was so confusing was they used it in broad terms. They were going to try to stop funding DEI, transgender woke policy, the Green New Deal. This is things that he campaigned on. He knows that this makes his base happy. It shows that he's punishing the values of the Democratic Party.

But when it actually comes to implementing that policy, when you have actual federal workers trying to decide how to disburse trillions of dollars, that makes zero sense. That's why we had the chaos. We had the Medicare portals go down. You have Republican officials confused about it. And also why the lawsuit that was brought by the nonprofits,

I think, got that administrative stay, because their argument was two parts. One, this is a violation of the Administrative Procedures Act because it's arbitrary and capricious, and you're not allowed to take an action based on that. But also, it's a violation of our First Amendment because clearly, you're targeting us if we have ever announced a DEI policy.

If you have announced a DEI policy, now you can get your money withheld. So they're saying you are attacking our free speech rights, which is a strong argument, and probably why the White House tried to rescind the memo but still say they were going to do it because the memo is what contained the language around the free speech violation. So they were trying to have it both ways and

thankfully the second judge said not so fast if you're still doing this you know we're gonna do a restraining order and so is this a part of a larger thing of getting it into court? I think we're going to see the Trump administration in court a ton. Lost nonprofits, states are doing a great job doing lawsuits. A lot of this stuff will probably eventually go up

to the Supreme Court, or at least will ask the Supreme Court. But if anybody's confused about this, it is because they don't, you know, Trump doesn't know how to govern. He only knows chaos. And this is a perfect example. I think it was probably really embarrassing for him for the chaos that happened as a result of the first memo

and for it to be stopped by the judge. I think he tried to backtrack with rescinding it. And it just shows like how incompetent they actually are governing. So Salty found the actual statement from Caroline Levitt. It says, in light of the injunction, OMB has rescinded the memo to end any confusion on federal policy created by the court ruling and the dishonest media coverage. The executive orders issued by the president on funding reviews remain in full force and effect and will be rigorously implemented by all agencies and departments. This action

should effectively end the court case and allow the government to focus on enforcing the president's orders on controlling federal spending. In the coming weeks and months, more executive action will continue to end the egregious waste of federal funding. The only thing that federal funding is going to be wasted on, it's going to be all the court battles that are going to have to happen to defend the lawlessness with which Donald Trump is trying to do things that are clearly illegal and against the law. And whether it's state democracy defenders, whether it's state law. And whether it's the state democracy defenders, whether it's state AGs, whether it's the ACLU,

it could be any of these groups and they're gonna lose all these cases because yeah, Letitia James files a lawsuit against Trump over these federal grant freeze. I mean, he's gonna, that's where the egregious waste of federal funds is going to be. Stop doing things that are illegal, Donald Trump,

and then maybe there won't be a million lawsuits against you and you're gonna have to pay for legal bills. I mean, it's just outrageous what he's doing. And what he's trying to do is, he's trying to change the law and make himself a king because look, it's very clear, Congress has the power of the purse, right? They're the ones who decide what is going to what things

are going to be spent on or not. You can't just impound that money, which is what he's trying to do. That's not something that is lawful. And I think he's overstepping and we'll see if the Supreme Court ultimately reigns him in or if they instead are going to let him continue to just do whatever he wants and be king. And again, let's see what Congress, he's essentially stripping Congress of its authority. I mean, you know, he's there, like, if I was a member of Congress, I'd be like, you know, we're a co-equal branch, you know, we voted on this. You can't just not do it. I mean, it's just pretty crazy, so.

Well, and there is an act specifically on this. It's the Impound Control Act of 1974 that was meant to make it very clear the president cannot reallocate or impound and use for different purposes what Congress had allocated and it was put in place because of Nixon. And interestingly it was this act that got him in trouble when he tried to withhold Trump, when Trump tried to withhold money to Ukraine because of Biden in 2020.

It was a violation of that act. So this act has been in play for a while. And if they are trying to target this act, it's not that surprising because this is what got him in trouble first time around. He's probably, you know, he doesn't want the limits. He wants to be able to try to bribe another country with the money that we give them to do his bidding. So this, you know, could be a first like arrow against the bow, so to speak.

But to your point, with the co-inclusive branches of government and Congress having the purse strings, I think they do have a much stronger argument here than the criminal prosecution argument was on the Supreme Court with the immunity case. Yeah, I mean, let's just make no mistake where this is coming from, right? This is coming from Russ Vought, who is the architect essentially of Project 2025. And he is the one who is going to be nominated for the head of OMB. And Project 2025 is something that we've reported on many, many times, so have others raising the alarm bells,

basically saying, please read it, see what they're going to do. Trump said, oh, I haven't read it, I don't know what it says and tried to walk away from it. That's just a bald faced lie. Everything that he's doing so far is spelled out in whether it's in project 2025, or he even, we'll get to it in a little while,

but when he was firing people, he even used the same language that in the memo line that Elon Musk used when he got rid of everybody from Twitter, right? He it's just fascinating that, you know, he's really you can just see where these things are coming from. And it's the same with with Project 2025. This is what they've been trying to do for a long time. Russ Vought, who's going to be the head of OMB is telling them what to do. Cause they've got the roadmap. It's right there. And, and, you know, they're, they're basically, uh,

going to try and, um, shrink government, whether it's by firing people, whether it's by freezing funds, whether it's punishing people, whether it's transferring people to Siberia, whatever it is, that's what they are doing, because they just really, you know, this is, this is essentially what they're, what they're So, yeah, it's crazy. So let's talk about deportations. And we'll talk about what's going on there because there's some pretty terrible, terrible stories that are coming out. And I want to talk about that. But really, before we dive into deportations, I want to continue on with this, what Trump is doing,

by firing people, by moving people. And I really want to dive into that, because he's really just pardoning everybody who's a loyalist to him, the 1600 pardons that he did to, for the January 6 individuals, it didn't matter who they were, he just said, pardon every, give them all a pardon. Didn't matter that one guy got rearrested

on a felony gun charge, one was dead, has already been killed because he was rearrested on a felony gun charge. One was dead, has already been killed because he was rearrested and shot and killed because he had a gun. Doesn't matter that who they are, what they did, or what their past is. He just pardoned everyone because they're loyal to him. And that's how he views things.

So anyone who he views as disloyal to him, he is going to fire or investigate or seek retribution and revenge. Let's start with the inspectors general that he fired. He fired, I don't know how many there were, I think it was 17 of them that he fired. Yeah, there they go, 17, independent watchdogs. So inspectors general are supposed to be a watchdog or a check on government. And it's something that the Senate really relies on in particular with their advice and consent roles. And it's a way of having a check on administrative agencies

and there are laws in place that actually require, if you're going to fire them, there's a recent law that was passed, I think a couple of years ago, that basically said, if you're going to fire an inspector general, you have to give 30 days notice. And it has to be for cause. You have to give a reason. And it was specifically passed.

So a new president can't do exactly what he's doing, but he doesn't care. He did it anyway. Right. That's how he does it. Same thing with the civil servants that he is, uh, he's reclassifying or firing. And there are unions and lawsuits coming forward because of that, because he's And there are unions and lawsuits coming forward because of that, because he's just trying to basically get rid of anyone who he thinks is disloyal. And so he has, the interim United States Attorney Ed Martin for the District of Columbia said he's investigating the prosecutors who worked on January 6 cases.

I mean, that's crazy to me, investigating the prosecutors. Not to mention the fact that he is conflicted, okay, Ed Martin, because he has an actual conflict of interest. He represented three of the January 6 defendants, and he said on Twitter that he has their back. So I don't know how he's doing that, how this is the person who is in charge of the Washington DC US Attorney's Office and these are career people, right, who are still there, who didn't, who were prosecuting the January 6 cases and working with him on with Jack Smith, the special counsel,

and he is going to investigate them. I mean, it's just crazy. You are not supposed to do that. On top of that, they also sent out a memo essentially offering people a severance package. Did you see that, Dina, where they offered them a severance package if they left voluntarily, essentially? It's just crazy. It's absolutely crazy. And thankfully, there are a lot of lawsuits trying to stop it.

Like you mentioned, the third lawsuit was filed today to try to stop the reclassification, the Schedule F employees. We kind of referred to the other ones last week. The idea is there's different groups of federal employees. The largest group is a merit-based competitive service class, and they cannot be fired at will, and he wants to change them to an at-will employee. And this union, I mean, you know, I've been a favor of unions for many reasons for many years, usually because of the safety and the wages improved with unions, but this is showing

how important unions are because these unions are helping out these employees by filing the lawsuits to try to protect them because yet again, there's congressional laws and acts that specifically talk about these categories of employees cannot be at will employees. So it's not that it's not gonna be very easy for him to change it. And I just, my heart goes out to these federal employees, you know, like this, like trying to basically get them to quit, right, en masse, have them come into the office.

You know, I, my dad was a federal employee. He was, you know, an immigrant who came here and served his country. Federal employees, lifelong employees, they often don't get as paid as well as they do in the corporate private environment. They do it because they care. My dad was in the Department of Health.

And they do it because they care about the policies, the departments. They tend to be lifelong or for many years because of their knowledge, right? And what they're contributing to the government, and that's seen as a value to the government. And for thousands of thousands, I mean, the one today was 50,000 employees were representing just today, we're talking about a huge group of Americans

who have taken a job with the government, are helping us in ways that we can't even all fathom, are being attacked by this president because he wants to do the project 2025 goal, is replacing civil servants with people who will do his bidding, which means that they're not going to care about our EPA rules and regulations. You know, they're not going to care about our health, FDA, you know, food regulations.

They're gonna do what he wants them to do. That's a stated goal of Project 2025. This is what they're trying to do. But we have laws in place for this. It's not going to be very easy for him. And all these lawsuits filed on behalf of the federal employees. So I think this is kind of the topic of our show today, right? Trump trying to be his dictator, but lawsuits trying to stop it. Because yes, we are not a lawless country. And may have felt like that with the Supreme Court immunity decision, but we're not a lawless country. He's going to test everything, but we have, you know, so,

but we don't have no defense. We have a defense. And these employees, thankfully, have a union who's standing up for them. Yeah. And even, look, it was really interesting too, because the, just putting, putting the, the individuals who worked with the special counsel and had a role in prosecuting Trump, he just fired them, right? He fired them and he wrote in their firing that it was as a result of their significant role in prosecuting President Trump. I mean, he said they could not be trusted to assist in faithfully implementing the president's agenda It'll be interesting to see if that will hold up as for cause. I mean normally Right. Do they have an employee union because I know are like local DA

Our union a union. Yeah, so they have civil service protections In place so it has to be merit-based. So it'll be interesting to see if, you know, look, it'll just be interesting to see if this succeeds or if anyone appeals it. It's just crazy, right? Like there goes the pretext that the Department of Justice is independent or separate. I mean, also,

so I also read about a veteran of the DOJ, and this is just DOJ is just one of the many agencies that we're talking about here, right, where people are being reassigned to Siberia or demoted or, I don't really mean Siberia, but you know, they're being reassigned to what he's doing is he's reassigning people from their jobs to places that will essentially force them to quit and, you know, to extremely undesirable roles. And these are very respected people all across the agencies, not just the Department of Justice, but in the Department of Justice, there's an individual who was extremely highly respected veteran. And he was so respected that his name's Brad Weinheimer,

that he was at the top in the Deputy Attorney General's office. And both Bill Barr and Jeff sessions put him there. But Trump moved him now because he somehow because he worked with people who Trump does not like right Jeff sessions and Bill Barr, he has now demoted him but he's highly respected by everybody. It's extremely a straight you know, it's extremely, you know, it's like people are just coming out and saying, there's no way these are merit-based, this is loyalty-based. And that's just never been done before, that this is going to transform justice and the Department of Justice and science and civil servants for at least the next four years.

And as you've said, there are people who have institutional knowledge that are career civil servants that if they decide to say it's not worth it, it's not worth the hassle, it's not worth the risk, and it's not worth the retaliation if something were to happen, or if they feel censored or like they can't say anything or they can't say the truth because it goes against Donald Trump's agenda and so they take their severance and just be done with it. I mean, I know that's part of the plan for Project 2025 and Trump because they think that they want to dismantle government.

But it would just be really sad. So many people who are served by the public servants are going to be affected by this. I mean, absolutely. And also recruiting from here on out is going to be a lot tougher, regardless of how these lawsuits go. People don't want to have to feel like the change of a presidency every four years is going to affect your job.

A lot of people work on policies that are going to be long term. So it's chaos for sure. But that's what his thing is. He's all into the chaos. And hopefully the DOJ union stands up for them as well as they should. Otherwise, if I were a union member, and they weren't standing up for my fellow prosecutor who got fired without cause, I would be upset. So but but in addition, if if this is like their first step to then

investigating them, which it sounds like possible, we kind of referenced this before too. Like, do they really want to bring these January 6 prosecutors in court to try to prove that they were weaponizing the justice system? I would love to watch that. I would love to watch these seasoned career prosecutors, Jack Smith and the others, with maybe not as big of a name, defend themselves in court and have to prove, you know, you have to prove, right? You have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt for convictions. All of that evidence would come out again. Why it was so reasonable to have this prosecution? Why

they were acting within the law. I don't think that Trump's justice system wants to actually get that far and put any of that evidence. This is just a lot about making it people scared. It's about making it happen. You're right. This is like to hassle them. Yeah.

I don't think they're actually going to bring it, because you're 100% right. Then that all comes out in court court and they don't want that. They don't want people to see actually the truth. And where they're sending people who they're demoting and not firing when they want to get them to leave is to go leave what they're doing and have to go prosecute want to get them to leave is to go leave what they're doing and have to go prosecute these border cases, these ICE detention border cases. So I mean, it's just crazy that that's what he's doing.

We're going to go to an ad before we talk about borders and deportation. But I just want to round out what we're talking about here with the Department of Justice and just mention the Mar-a-Lago documents case, because that case is, just to remind everyone where it is, the posture is Judge Eileen Cannon dismissed it as to Donald, or sorry, dismissed it as to all three of the defendants. And the Department of Justice is appealing with the, to the 11th circuit, the dismissal. And the grounds for the dismissal that Judge Cannon gave

was she said, and she ruled for the first time in the United States that the use of and the appointment of a special counsel is unconstitutional, it's invalid, it's unlawful, and that's, you're not allowed to do that. And so as a result, she dismissed the whole case. She got the language, arguing that it's unlawful, the special counsel, from Clarence Thomas's parents Thomas's concurrence where he essentially gave her this gift about special counsels. It was a concurrence in the immunity case. And so she had that and she knows she has somebody who if it goes up there is on her

side that special counsels are unlawful and unlawfully appointed. But when Donald Trump won, Jack Smith dismissed the case against Trump because of the long-standing Department of Justice policy that comes from the White House, from the Office of Legal Counsel's office, saying that a sitting president cannot be prosecuted. Therefore, they dismissed the appeal against him, but they left the appeal open, hoping that the 11th Circuit would rule as to Carlos de Oliveira and Waltine Nauda, knowing that that Trump will ultimately dismiss the case, but they want a ruling that says no, Judge Cannon's wrong. The use of a special counsel is is not only

lawful and valid. I mean, it's the statutes that are passed by Congress, it's been used by Trump, he appointed special counsel, by Biden, and by all the presidents before them. This is something that is used regularly when you want to do something that's nonpartisan. So they wanted, they were hoping that the 11th Circuit would rule on that. And instead, what has happened? Instead, the 11th Circuit didn't rule. And so Donald Trump, what are they going to do? They recommended dismissal to the court of these cases, which would make the appeal moot. Now, they have to ask permission of the court because only a court can dismiss a case, but

they're not, I think they want it dismissed. Now, it's fully briefed. The 11th Circuit could still rule and then dismiss it, but I don't know what took them, what's taken them so long. So that's the posture of the Mar-a-Lago documents case. So I don't know that we'll ever see the report, the special counsel report, probably not. I know. I mean, and that was the kind of ridiculous nature of why Merrick Garland didn't do it because there

was these co-defendants still there knowing the co-defendants were going to go away in a heartbeat, which they are. But the New York Times and other media go away in a heartbeat, which they are. But the New York Times and other media outlets have filed a Freedom of Information Act trying to get that report. So unless they act outside the bounds of the law and destroy the report, even though you're not supposed to do that with government records, we will get it based on that Freedom of Information request. That can take a while though.

So we'll have to kind of wait and see if we ever see that or not. Yeah, I don't know. There's so much national security classified information in the report potentially that I'm not sure that they won't, that if we do see it, it won't be all redacted with those black lines through it. We'll see.

You're right, it could take forever. But we'll see if that's actually a thing. Hope you're right. Love to see that report. So yeah, because unlike the January 6 case that we had hearings and we had the select committee did those hearings and had the motion that Jack Smith wrote that talked about all

how presidential immunity didn't apply to the superseding indictment, really spelled out the case and the evidence in extreme detail. So the report that came out there, it was nothing really new, stuff that we'd already seen before. Mar-a-Lago has not had that same, we haven't had the same benefit of that in that case.

So that's one where the report I think would be extremely illustrative. Yeah, and I think they wrote that report thinking it was going to get released. So hopefully it isn't all redacted. I hope you're right. Maybe hopefully Jack Smith kept a copy and if they destroy it. Well, yeah, I was I was thinking that I was wondering I was like, I hope Jack Smith kept a copy and somebody hopefully did America. I'm getting a subpoena's it or I don't know I'm not exactly Exactly. Exactly. exactly, exactly. All right, let's go to our next ad break

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and save 20% off at honeylove.com slash legal AF. Thank you so much for supporting our show, Honey Love. All right, we're back from our second and last ad break and let's talk about what's going on across the country in these raids and these deportations. Now, it's fascinating because Trump makes it seem like he's the first person ever to that we were that that violent criminals were never deported before and but you know under

Barack Obama, he deported what three million individuals. I mean, every president does deport people and they typically focus on people who have committed violent crimes. So this is nothing new, but he's making a show of this, right? And he's making it like he does everything. He does things, you know, he had Christine Noem all dressed up with her perfectly tailored ice raid jacket and, you know, she clearly was all dressed up like her perfectly tailored ice raid jacket. And she clearly was all dressed up like a prop, and her hair was done perfectly, and her makeup and all that,

as if she's going out and raiding things. Everything's about the theater and the theatrics. But violent criminals have been deported for years and years and years and years. And that happens, especially when they're in prisons and jails, you know, they coordinate with ICE and they ultimately get deported. However, Trump today has issued an executive order that he wants Guantanamo Bay in Cuba prepared for 30,000 migrants that he is saying he can't trust the countries that you deport these extremely violent people to not let them back

in. And so he's going to hold them in Guantanamo Bay. That's really, I think, a huge, huge step that he's taking where he's going to strip people of due process and of their rights and it's something we have to watch out for very carefully. And can Guantanamo Bay even handle this, right? Is it a place that can process as many people Bay even handle this, right? Is it a place that can process as many people and really handle the volume that's happening? So that's something to keep an eye out on. And also just what's happening in our cities, right, all across the country. And these raids that are happening with this huge fanfare and these orders, this executive orders that they're saying, there's the, yeah, there she is

all dressed up in her perfectly tailored and perfectly coiffed hair. But you know, essentially this executive order that commands state and local actors to comply with and not obstruct any immigration related activities. The federal government is saying, Trump is saying that the supremacy clause of the United States Constitution demands this, which I find really hypocritical because normally Republicans and MAGA say, oh, no, leave things up to the states, right? Federalism, right? Leave things up to the states.

Everything should be up to the states. Certainly that's what they said under Biden. But now under Trump, they're trying to say, exactly. Exactly. Right, you're absolutely right. That's what they said about abortion, right? Leave it up to the states. That's what they said about abortion, right? Leave it up to the states. That's federalism.

And that's normally what the Republicans' position is. It's fascinating, and it'll be interesting to see where, you know, MAGA's now saying, no, no, it's the supremacy clause. You must do this. And they want to prosecute local sheriffs and other local officials who refuse to comply. And it'll be very interesting what, because it's, if, and I was thinking this through,

what can they really prosecute local officials? And I think they can if they disobey a court order. I don't know though, if like, I think a local police officer or local law enforcement has to comply with a court order. But if an ICE agent shows up and just demands to look at the files or demands to do stuff, I don't think they have to comply.

But I don't know, What are your thoughts on this? Well, getting back to the Guantanamo Bay thing, he announced that when he signed the Lincoln-Riley Act, which is a really bad immigration bill, essentially it takes away due process rights to migrants. If they are even arrested, not convicted, but arrested for petty theft, the federal government can detain them indefinitely.

So you take that component where you're taking away due process rights of a whole group of people. Because in our country, if you are not a citizen but you show up here and you commit a crime, you're entitled to the same due process rights as everybody else. We have one justice system for everybody. Well, not anymore.

Now they have this carve out, let's say, for immigrants. And if you need a place to hold somebody indefinitely that you've just taken away their due process rights, Guantanamo Bay, there you go. Because there's no way there are enough serious criminals that he cannot send back to his country, nothing to their country, nothing even close to 30,000. This is feeling a lot like rounding up Japanese in these camps

that we had in the United States, and we justified it because of World War II. And this sounds a lot like when you are creating a space to hold 30,000 people without due process, and you've just created a mechanism for doing so without due process, right? This is the scary Project 2025, white supremacy, right-wing extremist thing that we have been trying to scream from the rooftops.

It's this combination of things. And then there you go. How do you enforce it? You threaten the local officials from stopping them because these federal troops or who knows what else are going to have to go through cities and counties that may not agree with you. So a good way to getting them to obey and advance, because I think that's the issue.

It's not even so much what law are they potentially going to break. It's about does the mayor of Los Angeles want to get criminally prosecuted when she's trying to deal with the fires? You're trying to get enough people to obey and advance so they don't have to hire a lawyer, so they don't have to go to court, so they don't have to try to justify why they're a sanctuary city.

That fear is enough to create, what is he looking for? Chaos, lawlessness, the ability to keep people quiet enough so he can round up enough people to put on the Scuotanamo Bay. I am so sorry to the immigrant community in this country. There are millions of us who value you. I mean, there are migrant workers by the thousands not showing up in states like California and Texas because they are so scared. He's doing what he wants, what he intended to do is scare people. And I cannot even imagine right now being undocumented in this country, knowing somebody who's undocumented in

this country, and how scary it is today that he signed that act and announced that Quotanamo Bay and threatened local officials with criminal prosecution. That trifecta is scary. It's very, very scary. I agree with you. And, you know, when you talk about migrants who work on farms, it is going to be such a shock to farmers this spring when they harvest, typically, and rely on hundreds of thousands of migrant workers to bring food to our tables. And we are going to see prices, I think, skyrocket because there's going to be a scarcity of produce. I mean, we're growing citrus farms now. You know, California, we're growing citrus. Central Valley, California, Central Valley, Valley is the breadbasket of our country. If not most of the world, you know, we talk so much about Iowa farmers when they do the Iowa caucuses.

Farmers are, we have more farmers in California. We produce more. They are already saying that there's so much fear in the central value now. The citrus is not getting picked from the trees now. And the bond market is flashing red because between him having that tiff with tariffs in Columbia war that he held,

workers too afraid to show up, they were essential workers under the pandemic. The migrants have picked our fruits and vegetables. We call them essential workers because we wanted them to go to work during a pandemic when their life was threatened. We took advantage of that by having food at a reasonable price at a time where people's paychecks were really not sure during the COVID. And now what happens, we turn around and Trump calls, blames them for the corporate greed

and the reason why people don't have a living wage and scares them and threatens them. And it's just disgusting. And I'm so glad that we have this outlet on Mind is Touch and Legal AF to speak up for them. And we have to keep doing it. As difficult as the news is, we have to keep doing it. But also, like you said, it's gonna hurt prices. They already decided not to lower the interest rate today because they know what's coming. Trump is gonna be bad for the economy, like full stop. And we're already seeing it with these farm workers,

too afraid to show up. Yeah, it's true. And they're getting deported. I mean, there are people who are being deported already. There are planes filled with people who are being sent back to other countries. I mean, you keep hearing stories of people who are detained and it's terrifying. It's absolutely terrifying. And it's, let's call it what it is. I mean, this is, you know, very racially motivated. I mean, this is very racially motivated.

I mean, why else is this birthright citizenship is another example of that, right? They don't want people to be able to become citizens because they're born here. And it's all about, it's all anti-Hispanic and anti-black. And there are people who are coming from countries that Trump finds undesirable and therefore, you know, they don't care that Elon Musk is not from here, you know, and suddenly he's got a powerful position in the government.

You know, Trump's wife is not from here, from here, but what do those people have in common? They're white. And it's really the black and brown people that they just don't want in this country. And all of their policies completely underscore that. One thing I just want to mention is there's something called the Posse Comitatus Act, and it's something that it's kind of an old-timey phrase. It's from the 1800s and it was a law that was signed by President Rutherford Hayes on June 18th, 1878 and it was created to prevent the military from being used for civilian law enforcement. It was after the Civil War and Reconstruction, and it was to limit

the abuses that occurred when the military was used for civilian law enforcement. And so, this is going to be, I think, invoked by some of these lawsuits that are going to challenge Trump trying to use the military to enforce the borders. He's calling it, calls it an invasion because that's one of the exceptions to Posse Comitatus, but it's an invasion is something very different than migrants coming over to pick our vegetables. So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out in the courts, but that is very much a real thing that is going to be, that's something we have to keep our eye open on. Yeah, I mean, he needs the military

to really carry out what he needs to. It has the people he needs and it has the budget he needs. I mean, look at Guantanamo Bay, that's not gonna happen without the military involved. So it's not a coincidence he called it an invasion. He is planning on invading, it's just us. And it's because the reality of the situation is he needs the military,

otherwise he's not gonna be able to carry out his deportation plans the way he's saying. A thousand, I think the quota that he's asking for is like a thousand something people a day, which is to give you a comparison under the Biden administration, they did deport people. It was about 300 a day. So you're talking about a huge, huge ramp up. So you're not obviously just talking about criminals in that situation.

You're talking about people who contribute to our society, our neighbors, members of our community, and with that many people he cannot do it just with ICE. Yeah. The framers of the Constitution were geniuses and really came up with a structure with checks and balances. And this administration is going to test the Constitution to its limits, because I'm learning a lot about autocracy, because that's what's happening here, is a move towards autocracy. And what I'm learning is one of the first things they do, and autocracy is defined by the way

as a system of government by one person with absolute power. And obviously there have been examples of autocratic governments in the past. And typically what I'm learning is what they do is first they take over the courts, right? They pack the courts with people who are like-minded so that when they do things that are lawless, the courts will support it. And that's what Trump did in his first administration. He packed the courts with Trump loyalists and Trump supporters and the Supreme Court too. And we can look back at so

many missteps and so many missed opportunities that Democrats had where they could have put people in court positions. But that's partly what's allowing all of this to happen, is that's what he did. But let's see if the checks and balances will hold. And despite that, and that his attempt to concentrate absolute power in the presidency and take it away from Congress and take it away, essentially take it away from the courts, because wasn't it JD Vance who said, well, you know, go ahead courts, you can say something,

but what's your enforcement power, right? So so justice Roberts brought up that concern and that's true your Supreme Court. You're right. He did He recognizes that Trump is a kind of person because the Supreme Court doesn't have like their own enforcement unit You know, they say and they're really rely on Others to follow it. So So true. Yeah, that's definitely something yet another thing he wants to test. But also, I think it's really important to that. And I think people are doing it better this time around is part of it, I think, is the problem of the people. You know, we say we're not a monarchy, but we did treat him like a monarch. Merrick Garland taking so long to file a case against him or appoint Jack Smith to be able to file a case against him

is inconstant. I mean, that's you treating him with the deference of a monarch. You compare that to South Korea, who the prime minister did martial law, and with days he was impeached, he was outed. So I think there's, you know, people are doing better. They are not giving him the deference that they did the first time around. You could see with these lawsuits, they're not giving him like a benefit of a doubt that

he didn't deserve and doesn't deserve. But they did the first time around. He got way too much latitude. So partly if we don't want a dictator, if we don't want a monarch, we have to stop treating the person in the Oval Office like that. The lawsuits, I think people are doing it that better this time around, but it's going to take the attorney generals across the states because like you said, this is going to become, the Democrats are going to become more states' rights issues. It's going to take them not being afraid to

call out the president. And thankfully, with Letitia James there with Rob Bonta in California, there are attorney generals are more than willing to do that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and you've got the Midas Touch Network that is here to hold people accountable and to tell the truth about what's happening and to not be beholden to any mainstream media rules or requirements. We are here to really just bring the truth to people.

On Legal AF in particular, what we do is we try to bring you the information, read you the laws, tell you what's happening, and you can make your own determinations and your own decisions. But staying informed, I know sometimes it's depressing, I know some people who say I can't watch the news and I don't want to watch the news, I get it, but staying informed is what's going to prevent this from happening. And we all have to make sure that we stay as informed as we can and try to prevent this from happening. And we all have to make sure that we stay as informed as we can and try to stop this autocrat from trying

to seize absolute power. I mean, I can't stand, I hear rumblings that he says things that he might run again. He claims he jokes about it that he's going to do that. But there's term limits. He's not allowed to. But he really thinks that he is there's term limits. He's not allowed to, but he really thinks that he is completely above the law.

So that's what we have to do, and we have to stay vigilant and make sure that this does not happen and keep people informed. And so we cherish and appreciate all the people who listen to our podcast, who listen to the Midas Touch Network, who are just really taking the time out of their busy days to stay informed and who really is this incredible community that I'm

honored to be a part of. So we've reached the end, Dina, of another midweek episode of Legal AF. It's so great for you to be here and be here for Michael Popok. And I always love being here with you. Any last words that you would like to share with share with with people who are listening? Well, thank you so much for having me. It's such an important time and we absolutely all need to pay attention. And the phrase that kept on coming up for me these last few days is,

I'm gonna, I choose to laugh because otherwise I'll cry. And it was actually something Ron Filipkowski said when I was talking about to him on, when I interviewed him about how funny he was in his post. And I like that, you know, we're gonna have to choose. Maybe not everything is funny, but choose. Maybe not everything is funny, but we can't, everything makes me want to cry. And we, if I'm, you know, that makes me useless. And so sometimes we're going to have to laugh even if we want to cry. I think that's beautiful. And I agree with you. Laugh and stick together and support each other, right? And really support each other as a community because it can be a little depressing and lonely otherwise. You know, you look, you watch on the TV and you're like, oh my God. So, so let's just hope RFK does not get confirmed because science still matters. That means that we got to hold on to certain certain truths, right?

Yeah, so let's just hope that happens. All right. Well, thank you, Dina. It's great to see you. And thanks everyone for joining us on another episode of Midweek Edition of Legal AF.