Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Rudy Giuliani INSTANTLY STEPS IN IT During First Day of Trial

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

Rudy Giuliani’s lawyers just crossed the line and invited a mistrial for violating Court orders by telling the Ruby Freeman/Shay Moss defamation damages jury that if they award too much, it will bankrupt Rudy. Michael Popok of Legal AF explains why the plaintiffs lawyers may like their jury and will decline the court’s invitation to declare a mistrial given the future jury instructions about Rudy’s hidden finances that’s coming. Get up to $150 off when you go to https://eightsleep.com/legalaf Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you want to see what the world is really like? Yes. Four things is deliciously funny and spectacularly entertaining. A woman planting her coast of freedom at a nut home. It's non-stop bonkers brilliance. I love that. Four things. It's a like theaters, December 15.

It's Michael Popak, legal, A. F. Day 1 of Rudy Giuliani's defamation case, just on how big of a check he's going to write to election workers Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss for having to frame them leading to them being violently attacked by on online and otherwise and docs because of his actions. He accused them along with people like Donald Trump of election fraud saying that they changed ballots that were meant for Donald Trump for Joe Biden. They used the thumb drive to insert and stuff the ballot box with votes for Biden and all these other nefarious and defamatory and untrue things. They have sued Rudy Giuliani. Rudy Giuliani has no defenses to the defamation component because the judge already found as a sanction for Rudy Giuliani's

bad, bad conduct in the case to find him reliable as a matter of law and as a sanction for defamation. Now we're on to the jury that started today just on how big of a check they're going to write according to the lawyers for Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss. They want between 15 and $43 million. Right in this sweet spot, right in the middle is where we, on legal A F predicted, it would be about at least a $30 million case. And that's exactly the range that lawyers for Shay Moss and Ruby Freeman have requested from the jury. They did their after jury selection, which they're trying to figure out who's MAGA and who's not.

They finally got a jury in the box. In an opening statements that happened today, you've got the lawyers for, um, Shay Moss and Ruby Freeman, basically, uh, along with the first witness that happened today, telling the jury about how badly, uh, their clients were injured, right? T of thousand seven hundred and ten Thousand mentions of Ruby Freeman and Chey Moss in the media another four hundred thousand mentions of them which led to people making racist and virulent of and violent virulent attacks on Ruby Freeman and Chey Moss This is part of their case and they want to be able to recover from Rudy Giuliani damages, right, that fall into a number of categories, reputational, emotional and punitive damages. That's exactly what it sounds like. And what are they going to

base that number on on how much money? Rudy Giuliani made podcasting and otherwise, in bashing them. And the other damages that they suffered, including the amount that's required to rehabilitate them and restore the life that they once had. Even the lawyer for Rudy Giuliani, Joe Simbli, looked at the jury in the eye today during opening statements and said that Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss are good people who didn't deserve to have this happen to them. He conceded that Rudy Giuliani committed defamation against them as he has to.

He has no choice. Then I thought he went a step too far and I think it's something that the judge in the case is going to have to take up with them and decide what to do with the jury because I'm sure it's objectionable. The judge in the case, Barrel Howell, already ruled that they have no defenses on the liability side and they can't plead poverty to the jury. In fact, the jury is going to be given expressed instructions by the trial judge at the appropriate time. And that may be as early as tomorrow. And then again, before they deliberate, that Rudy Giuliani took steps to hide money,

to hide his net worth from the court, to hide and deflate his assets in front of the jury to avoid paying a large Puditive Damage Award. That is going to be an expressed instruction by the trial judge because of Rudy Giuliani's bad behavior. I think he crossed the line in what is lawyer said in the opening statement that the amount of money that the Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss side, the plaintiff's side is seeking, 15 to 43 million, is absurd and that it would bankrupt Rudy Giuliani and that it would also lead to him getting the effect effectively the civil equivalent of a death penalty. I think that crosses the line for what the judge told these lawyers in advance they could

not say in their opening. She was very explicit about that. She told the lawyers, you are not to argue anything related to liability. You're only to argue on damages and you can't say that he may go bankrupt. I think they violated that. And I think one of the issues is going to come up in court. He was either later today or tomorrow before the jury arrives for the day is did that create a mistrial and does the lawyers for the plaintiff want a mistrial and to start all over again picking another jury.

You know, I'm a trial lawyer, it's close call. If they like the jury, if the plaintiffs lawyers like the jury that they have, they may not want to toss them in order to start all over again with another opening statement, especially since they know in their back pocket that the judge is going to instruct the jury that they are to assume that Rudy Giuliani tried to hide his money, hide the ball, lower his assets to avoid a large damage case. See, if I know I have that in my back pocket, I might be less hot and bothered with a screw up or something that would be akin to a mistrial that happens

in the opening by my opponent. And I think that may be where we're at right now, but that crossed the line. I don't think they were able to tell. I think it was improper for them to tell the jury this amount of money, this $43 million or so, is the equivalent to the death penalty. That's not an issue for the jury. I mean, it's borderline because when they're calculating punitive damages, they have to know how much money

the other person has, so they can figure out how big of an award to fashion. And yes, you're able to say, look, $43 million is many multiples more than my client is currently worth. But to say it's the equivalent of the death penalty, I think is a bridge too far, and we're going to see with the judge and the trial team for the plaintiffs do in response to that. With my active recording schedule and law practice, I can't function without a great night's sleep. And the bed's temperature in my old bed always seemed wrong. It was

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technology has been a lifesaver. Invest in the rest you deserve with eight sleep pod. Go to 8sleep.com slash legal AF and save $150 on the pod cover. That's the best offer you'll find, but you must visit 8sleep.com slash legal AF for the 150 off. Stay cool with 8sleep. Now shipping within the US, Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU and Australia. First witness today, after the lawyer for Giuliani apologized effectively for his client, said that the plaintiffs were good people that they shouldn't have been attacked mercilessly, a mercilessly, but then said, well, Regina Lennon can't be responsible for what crazy third party still is this sound familiar?

It's the exact argument that Donald Trump is making in his criminal cases. But the witnesses for Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss, including experts, got on the stand and said, look, we've never seen the level of racist, virulent attack on two individuals the way these plaintiffs have suffered 710,000 mentions of them in social media because of Rudy Giuliani. And then the resulting emails, phone calls, assassination threats, and the like that followed. And that they're going to, this is to justify the three categories of damages that they're seeking right

reputational emotional and then punitive and then how do you rehabilitate them to provide them with enough money to compensate them for what happened to them They already sued one right wing media organization and they settled with them early on the case I'm sure they've been using that money to go after Rudy Giuliani and to answer the question They already sued one right wing media organization and they settled with them early on in the case. I'm sure they've been using that money to go after Rudy Giuliani. And to answer the question, does Rudy Giuliani have any money? Yes, some. And I'm sure Ruby Framed and Shane Moss would like to own an apartment on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.

That's valued at $5 million or more or own an apartment near Mar-a-Lago on the aisle of Palm Beach for three to five million dollars. Those are nice things that that can go towards the judgment. And an addition, Rudy Giuliani is not out of business. He continues much to the chagrin of most people to run a podcast and collect money and to get, you know, Patreon or whatever he's getting and that money can be garnished and taken from him on a weekly basis or monthly basis, whatever his paycheck is, take 25 or 30% or more of it and pay it over to pay whatever judgment

comes out. I am not sure, frankly, that in front of a jury in the District of Columbia, that the argument by the lawyers for Rudy Giuliani, which is basically have mercy on him, you're gonna write a check, but don't write it so big because grandpa Rudy can't pay for it. I don't think that goes over very well. I think that likely backfires as the jury, who mostly know Rudy Giuliani,

also later here testimony, and they will will feel misled and I'll talk about Jury's in a minute. They will feel misled when they hear the testimony about the amount of money that Rudy Giuliani makes from podcasting, the amount of revenue comes in, the fact that he flew on a private jet to Georgia in order to surrender himself for an arrangement in the criminal case surrender himself for an arrangement in the criminal case and the like. And these types of attributes of wealth that they are going to hear about, pin to Rudy Giuliani, the value of his New York apartment, the value of his Florida condo and all the other assets that he may have. They're going to think like they were misled in the opening. That's the number one thing, and I'll tell you as a trial lawyer, that's the number one thing you can't do to a jury. You can't insult their intelligence

You can't look them in the eye and not be authentic. You can't look them in the eye and write a check that you can't cash at some point During the trial and you can't mislead them There's nothing worse for a trial lawyer than to lose all credibility at the time of the closing argument because you've misled them about what the evidence will show during the case. I think that's the borderline of where we are now with the lawyers, Joe Sibli, and company for Rudy Giuliani. I think he's misleading them. I think both the judge is going to have something to say about it because I think the comments

about the civil death penalty being imposed if the judgment goes to the max of $43 million is improper. And I think she's going to ask the plaintiffs, do you want to mistrial? They're going to say, no, we just started with the curative instructions that you're planning to give to the jury about Rudy Giuliani hiding his assets to try to mislead them. We're okay with continuing with the trial, as long as he's in modest never to do that again. I think that's where it's going to go because they probably like their jury. And so we're going to continue to follow this on the Midas Touch Network on this YouTube

channel. Help them get to two million. They're so close. Help them free. Subscribe. And then you can follow me on legal AF, the leading podcast at the intersection of law, politics and justice on Wednesdays and Saturdays, 8 p.m. Eastern time. We have a live version on YouTube on the Midas Touch Network. And

then on hot takes like this one by the leaders of legal AF about every hour. So if you like this, you can pick it up here or pick it up on audio podcasts of your choice, wherever you get your audio podcasts from. Leave me a thumbs up and a comment. It helps with the ratings. Helps keep this content on the air. So until my next hot take and until my next legal AF, this is Michael Popak reporting. you