Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Stolen Antiquities and the Prosecutors who Recover it: A look at the Manhattan DA’s Antiquities Trafficking Unit

Episode Date: February 10, 2022

LegalAF x MeidasTouch, the top-rated weekend global news podcast covering US law and politics anchored by Ben Meiselas and Michael Popok, has launched a special weekly Wednesday short-form edition providing a piercing but entertaining look at one or two topics ripped from today’s headlines, this one co-anchored by veteran prosecutor, policy analyst and defense counsel, Karen Friedman Agnifilo (“KFA”). On this :30 minute episode the anchors shine a light into a fascinating but little known corner of the law – illegal antiquities and art trafficking. Popok and KFA explore the rarefied underworld of the high-stakes antiquities trade, pulling in auction houses, dealers, museums and collectors. The anchors focus on the novel work of the world’s only prosecutor-led antiquities recovery unit, the Manhattan DA Office’s Antiquities Trafficking Unit that has recovered over 3000 items valued at over $200mm in just the last decade. Special Easter Egg: Learn how Kim Kardashian led to the seizure of a multimillion dollar Egyptian coffin. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the midweek edition of Legal AF, the top rated legal news analysis podcast in the world with listeners in almost all 50 states. I think we're missing two and 30 countries with your host for this midweek episode, Michael Popak. And our Friedman Agnifalos here too. All right. Or our listeners like to call us Popak and KFA. And on today's 40 minute pod,

we will explore a fascinating quarter of the law, which we've never touched on in almost 50 episodes of legal AF, which will interest culture and art lovers all over the world. We're gonna talk about the recovery and the return of stolen antiquities, art and artifacts, and the role of prosecutors, including leadership right here with Manhattan's District Attorney's Office and the role of prosecutors, including leadership right here with Manhattan's

District Attorney's Office and the Antiquities Trafficking Unit, which became a very muscular organization under Sive Ants. And just last month, for example, the office recovered and returned to Iraqi artifacts, seized from billionaire financier Michael Steinhart, he of the Steinhart Gallery at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Apparently he was also when he wasn't doing that, he was looting Iraqi and other artifacts and antiquities for the last 30 years. And the office, led by those prosecutors,

seized over 180 items worth approximately $70 million. And that office now has basically a mini museum of over 3,000 items, valued at over a street value of over $200 million awaiting their return. They've rated museums and auction houses, art fairs and dealers. I have an interest in stolen art that really started a reading books.

There's one in particular called the book Feaves by Andrews Rydell about the Nazi looting of libraries and the recovery of those books and the return. And there's also been a really great article in the Atlantic with an overview of the Antiquities Trafficking Unit by Ariel Sabar called the Tomb Raiders of the Upper East Side, but who better to talk about this particular unit than one of its supervisors and founders, KFA. KFA, tell us about this unit and why, why have we heard about it before? So, just a slight caveat that, as we all know, and we said before, I can't talk about cases

that I supervised, but the unit I can talk about because it has been widely written about and publicized about. And so I just wanted to mention that. But the Antiquities Trafficking Unit at the Manhattan DA's office was officially created in 2017 by Sivance Jr. and the new DA Alvin Bragg has signaled an interest in continuing this important work, because as you just said, since he started in January, he's already repatriated several items back to their home country, which I think is a good sign that this work is continuing. But this unit was created in 2017,

and it is the only unit of its kind in the world that is led by prosecutors, and it is staffed with a chief prosecutor of approximately three lawyers, several analysts who are also experts in art history and several of their own investigators. And they work in conjunction with federal and state and international law enforcement,

truly all over the world. We've worked, the unit has worked with the Carbignetti, the Carbonieri police in Italy, and with other foreign foreign police forces, but also the FBI, Homeland Security, ICE, and other federal agencies as well as police agencies here in this country. Let's start basically. What is an antiquity? So an antiquity is a very old artifact. So think of things from a thousand years BC, the types of things that come out of the ground, whether it's coins or tiles or or vases or sculptures, it could be parts of temples or pyramids,

those types of things, just artifacts, ancient artifacts that are often recovered from the ground, frankly. And art is included in that, Karen? Yes, it can be ancient art as well. Many of these items are ancient art, but an antiquity is something that is very, very old and is from a different time. Okay. Is it a crime? The Traffick traffic in antiquities? So it's very complicated because the question is, it all involves the provenance. Okay. So

where did it come from and are you allowed to sell it? And if you can prove the provenance that in other words that each person was permitted to have it along the way, then it's not a crime. Then it's just it's the buying and selling of ancient art and artifacts. I mean, you go to any museum like the Metropolitan Museum of Art and you'll see items that date back to thousands of years ago. And those items, most of them, I'm sure many, I mean, I assume all of them are possessed legally. But every once in a while, there is this, there's trafficking of these items that were stolen

and that weren't permitted to be sold and bought. And, and that's where this unit goes in. And that's why there, there needs to be sold and bought. And that's where this unit goes in. And that's why there needs to be expertise in this unit, because you need to understand the difference between antiquities that are permitted to be permitted to be bought and sold and items that aren't. And that's where why these cases are so complicated.

But if these are stolen, then the charge here in New York is criminal possession of stolen property. And the street value is sort of, if it's over a million dollars, it's in the first degree, which is a serious felony punishable up to 25 years in prison. So the Manhattan, I think Manhattan is uniquely situated to have this kind of unit because first of all, Manhattan has many museums and many art dealers and art galleries. And so it really is a place where it makes sense to have a prosecution unit that can do this

type of work, but also because New York law, unlike federal law, for example, has a presumption in the law that allows prosecutors to bring these cases, the federal law, that federal authorities can't. So a presumption in the law means that once a prosecutor proves a basic fact, so that a person possessed an item, right? You can presume that they knew it was stolen, because there's a presumption in the law,

it's in New York penal law section 165.55 subdivision two, that allows for prosecutors to argue and the judge to instruct the finder effect, which is mostly most of the time of jury, that a person who's in the business of buying, selling, or dealing in property who possess stolen property, the property is presumed to be stolen if they have it without doing a reasonable inquiry

that the person from who they obtained it had a lawful right to possess it. And so it's that presumption, it's a rebuttable presumption and the defense can choose to prove otherwise if they decide to put on a defense. But it's a real tool in the toolbox that New York prosecutors have that the feds don't because it allows a lot of the individuals who possess these items will say, well, I just didn't know. And I had no idea. I was buying it from what I thought was a lawful dealer. I mean, look at the Met, the Metropolitan Museum, look at Sotheby's, look at Christie's. You know, these are people, these are organizations that are in the business of buying and selling things. But this a lot, this makes it so the presumption makes it so these people who deal in these items,

they cannot turn a blind eye and claim willful ignorance. So, so let me use an example. There was a federal prosecution, a number of years ago. And if you were involved in it, you'll tell me you're involved and it will stop talking about it. But Hobby Lobby, were you involved with Hobby Lobby? I was not, we'll stop talking about it. But Habi lobby, we involved with Habi lobby. I was not, but I'm familiar with it. So Habi lobby brought in and bought the owners of Habi lobby craft store like dentiquities and they bought from Iraqi dealers hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, worth of artifacts, and antiquities, and had it shipped to them

in boxes labeled tile, like they were buying tile. And ultimately, the feds did an investigation, federal government prosecutors did an investigation, and they paid a civil fine. And I'm not even sure what happened to the antiquities, but they certainly weren't prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, which it sounds like they would have been in New York.

If that had happened in New York, what do you think would have happened? So, so these cases are complicated. And the reason they're complicated is because they often rely on confidential informants. And in order to maintain their secrecy, a lot of these cases are pled out and not given the full force of the law. In fact, in fact, I don't think anyone's gone to prison in these matters, although there have been people who are prosecuted and

convicted. But as you've point out, the Hobby Lobby case, that wasn't even a prosecution. That was a civil matter, a civil forfeiture. And so if that was in New York, that would have, more than likely, been, I should say, a New York state, that would have more than likely been a prosecution, for sure. I mean, you know, when you do things like you, you, you fake what's in it and, and you, you fake the, the label on the box, I mean, that's sort of consciousness of guilt. And, and it makes it, that, that makes it much easier for a prosecution to prove that you, that you knew it was fake or false. So the, in, in the, the breakout a little bit of our legal AF law school, there's a concept

in the law as it relates to transactions on the civil side, known as the bonafide purchaser or the BFP, the bonafide purchaser, who usually is able to say, well, listen, this might have been stolen. But by the time it got to me, we're back to your provenance description, by the time it got to me, I had no reason to believe it was stolen. And therefore, against all others, except the rightful owner, at least, I had no reason to believe it was stolen. And therefore, against all others except the rightful owner at least, I should be able to keep clean title as the BFP or Bonafide purchaser. So it sounds like New York has baked into its criminal element on this willful blindness

aspect that if you don't make a making it affirmative duty to make a reasonable inquiry before you start dealing in antiquities, right? Exactly. That's exactly right. And that gives prosecutors a tool in their toolbox that others don't have. So, you know, the antiquities unit of the Manhattan DA's office was the passion project of one particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular 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particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular particular from in a big family, his parents owned it own diners and he worked in the diner and he was really fascinated with the Iliad and the Odyssey, I would read them. And he went to Columbia Law School, or he went to Columbia Law School and then went on to get his masters as well in, I can't remember in what, but something involving our history or something like that. And Matthew joined the Marines and he was a Marine Corps lawyer before joining the Minahatin

DA's office. And at the Minahatin DA's office, he came up as a regular prosecutor. He did homicide prosecutions. And in fact, he has done some of the most high profile homicide cases that have come out of the Manhattan D.A.'s office. He's a real serious prosecutor, but on the side, he's always had this interest in art and antiquities. Well, as a Marine, he led the group that was investigating the looting of the Iraqi National Museum, right? That's sort of where you got to taste for this.

So in, that's exactly right. So in 9-11, he was called back after 9-11, he was called up to active duty. And in 2003, there was a war in Iraq. I think it was when we invaded Iraq in 2003 and it destabilized Baghdad and the museum there was overrun by looters and many, many, many items were stolen. And Matthew went to his commander and he was in the counter intelligence unit. And he went to his commanding officer and he asked for permission to go secure the items and he took a team and he went to the museum they slept in the library looting and plundering. And then they set up an

amnesty program for people to return stolen items, but they also conducted kind of these raids where they recovered items. And they recovered a lot of what was taken from the museum and really helped preserve the cultural heritage of Iraq by returning this property to them. And he since then when he came back to the Manhattan D.A.'s office, he continued the work and wanted to create a unit but wasn't never given the opportunity until Sivance, until Sivance had money that was seized in a money laundering case that could be used,

could be repurposed. And he repurposed it by creating this unit about five years ago. Yeah, Matthew needs a movie made about him. I mean, I'm just looking at his background. I mean, I don't know if his nickname in the Manhattan D's, the A's office was pitbull, but apparently in the military,

his nickname was pitbull. He made it to the rank of Colonel. You know, he got a bronze star. He was given a national humanities medal and honor for all the work he did on recovering Iraqi antiquities. I mean, I mean, you were his supervisor. He must have been interesting to supervise. He's a character.

He's an absolute character. He, you know, one of the trials he did, I think one of the only trials he ever lost was the puff daddy case, the Sean Combs gun case and he lost that case and you know he he he he's tried just all different kinds of cases. He was a real interesting guy. He's he has a heart of gold and but his nicknames more the peacock because he walks around and and preens like a peacock. It's a marine that's a marine. I'll tell you he's a marine. That's a marine. I'll tell you, he's a brilliant lawyer. I'm sure. He's the best they have.

Well, maybe we'll have one day we'll be able to, you know, he'll get the appropriate permissions and we'll have them on the show with us. There was one thing that was in the article that the Atlantic put out that I thought was fascinating. And I think it's so old you'll be able to talk about it. But I think it brings the point home of how aggressive this prosecutor's office is.

Um, they talk about a sting operation for coin recovery that led to a raid at the Waldorf Astoria. And I think you were definitely involved with that from the way I read the article. Can you talk about that? Sure. I can talk about what was publicly reported. Yeah, let's do much to that. Um, so, so that was an interesting,. So that was an interesting case.

So that was before the unit was actually created. Matthew was doing these cases still. And in 2011, right when Syvance was elected about, I think a year before that, he started. So still new to the office. In 2011, Matthew came to us and said that the New York international Numismatic Convention was taking place at the Waldorf Astoria in New York.

Now at the time, I didn't know what a Numismatic Convention was about, but it's a coin collection. And there's this whole Numismatic Society and Coin Collector from all over the world. And they were coming to New York and to have this convention. And there we got information that there was going to be stolen coins that were being traded or sold. And in Italy, there is a law that states that any coin or item removed from the ground after 1909 is illegal. So if anyone who has been to, your provenance has to show that it was,

came out of the ground before 1909. So to prove that it's not illegal. And there are items, there are coins, for example, that are known to exist, that you can trade, that the provenance has been identified and are legally possessed and traded in. But these coins were new to the market and did not appear in any of the coin

documentation of existing coins. And there was evidence that these were quote unquote fresh coins or recently dug up. And there was evidence that these were quote unquote fresh coins or recently dug up. And there was no paperwork to show any provenance that was legal. And an individual, a very prominent hand surgeon from, I believe, Rhode Island named Peter Weiss or Arnold Peter Weiss was going to sell these coins. And they did a sting operation, he was arrested. These were fifth century BC coins worth approximately $300,000.

And he ended up pleading guilty to three misdemeanors and he did some community service, he paid a fine and he wrote an article actually for the Numismatic Society talking about the trade of illegal coins to help inform people so that other people wouldn't do this and couldn't couldn't do this, but in a strange twist. So one of the things that we were very concerned about at the time was, are you sure this is real? Because, you know, these people who trade in antiquities are not your average defendant. I mean, these are philanthropists, these are doctors, these are surgeons,

these are wealthy people who trade in, who go in sort of the highest society circles. And so there was concern, are you sure? And we were sure. And these coins, they turned out to be fake, but it was not easy to determine that they were fake. They had to, we had to have them evaluated by some electron, I can't remember what it was called, but some super special microscope

that doesn't exist. It had to go to a specialist. And it was called an electromagnetic microscope. Or so I can't remember what it was called, but some special... It was the date them. It was to... And yes, it was exactly right. And it was only through that that we realized they turned out to be fakes. But they were such good fakes

that it really concerned us because the fact that there could be a market, that there's such a market for these items, that there's this other black market that creates these incredible fake coins, that even experts like Dr. Weiss thought they were real and was going to sell them for over $300,000. That should just tell you what kind of a black market

there is out there for antiquities and for these fake antiquities. He ended up pleading to attempted possession of stolen property because he thought it was real. He thought it was real. So yeah, so that was a really interesting case to be about. How about the and we'll put up a picture of it on our pod today. How about this Kim Kardashian posing in front of a mummy coffin at the at the met that your office eventually determined was a stolen antiquity. Can you talk about that? and I'll talk about what was publicly reported. So in 2011, there was an 18-day revolution in Egypt. And during that revolution,

there was a solid gold sarcophagus that was stolen. It traded hands several times. It went to the United Arab Emirates, then it went to a German dealer, and each time it was sort of washed with fake documentations along the way to try to make it so that it was the provenance was being washed and given the impromptuor of legitimacy by being traded in these legitimate circles. The contents had an Egyptian priest in it, but the looters were in such haste, removed the contents that they actually

left behind a finger of this Egyptian priest, the bone, inside. Now, the Met acquired this golden coffin, it was from the first century BC and paid four million dollars from it. Now, there were some red flags that the Met should have been aware of. There was these conflicting ownership papers that were available.

And there was also involvement in known illegal traffickers, conflicting ownership papers that were available. And there was also involvement in known illegal traffickers. The finger was missing. The finger was in there. There was also one of the export license from Egypt turned out to be forged. And the tail-tailed sign was it set on there, the Arab Republic of Egypt, before the country, the Arab Republic of Egypt before the country, and it was dated before the country ever used that name.

So any person, you know, you would think that the Met, this is again, sort of the turning the blind eye, the wolfhole ignorance. I mean, the Met has, they employ experts who know these types of things, and before they're gonna pay $4 million or something, they could very easily figure out that this was stolen. They were, but they were so blown away by the artifact, this solid gold sarcophagus,

which Kim Kardashian apparently matched her dress to, which is a photo. So that was in 2018, when she took the photo. Right. It's still sitting. So it's it's prominently displayed. So so how did your office get back? Believe it or not, Kim Kardashian posing in front of it is what helped solve the case. So she's so good. She's posing in front of it.

It's widely widely publicized at the Met has it. And then that's how we figured out that that it was there, that it was stolen. And the Manhattan DA's office ended up seizing it from the Met. And they they you know sit look, I will say they are a very cooperative entity. And as soon as they find out that something is stolen, they they they absolutely there's no hesitation in returning it to its rightful owner. Well, let's break it down before we leave tonight's podcast. Let's walk through and you say they seized it.

I go to the Met, I live a few blocks away. I can't walk in and just seize something that I like. So how do you get a seizure order? Who gives it to you? And then from there, what do you do with it? It's still sitting in the mini museum at the Manhattan DA's office. Where is the sarcophagus today? Let's start with seizure. How do you how does the office get a seizure? So I'm not so okay. I'm gonna talk generally not about this case in particular.

I'll make you I'll make you a blanket promise. You never have to talk about on this podcast anything that you worked on. Just talking generalities. In general, thank you. So in general, what happens is you get a search warrant. And in a search warrant, what you have to do is you have an affiant or somebody who's going to swear in front of a judge and affirm that that there's probable cause to believe that there is a particular item in a particular place that constitute either evidence of a crime or proceeds of a crime. And you have to be very specific. You have to describe what the location is, you have to describe the facts and the details of how you have probable cause to believe that this exists and that it's criminal. And you put this in a document known as a search warrant and you go before a judge and the judge,

you know, you swear in front of the judge and the judge reads it. And if they find that there's probable cause and that meets all the other legal requirements, they will sign the search warrant. And you present that search warrant. I mean, you know, there's different kinds of search warrant. So there's the dramatic no-knock search warrant when you think something will be destroyed, like drugs, you know, knocking on the door and the drug, you know, people have take, have drugs and they're flushing it down the toilet. You are worried about the bet flushing the coffin down the toilet. Correct. So, so typically in that situation, you just have to let them know that it exists and they will happily, you know, places like the Met and other very reputable places, frankly,

if you just go to them and tell them that it's stolen and show them why I'm confident that they would actually turn it over. But it's still done, you know, by a subpoena or some other means. But it's still done typically with a search warrant. And then what happens is it has to be stored somewhere. And at the Manhattan DA's office, they have, they're clearly in the business of storing evidence. I mean, that's been done all the time, everything from drugs and guns to Trump's tax returns, you know, when they finally obtained those, they had to be stored.

Remember those in? Of course. So the Manhattan DA's office knows how to store valuable things. So this was no different. But there is a particular designated, a couple of different areas, both on site and off site. And they are packed, they're bubble wrapped. Look, some of these, some of the items are these,

these, you know, vases, these really delicate vases that have to be bubble wrapped and packed and secured. Other items are, you know, vases, these really delicate vases that have to be bubble wrapped and packed and secured. Other items are, you know, parts of temples that were sawed off, and you can still see the saw marks and the grass marks on the ground, you know, from them from from within the other ground. Is it insured? Does the office insure these works? So, there's all kinds of, yes, there's all kinds of complicated things that go into the storage of these items, but they do try to repatriate them to their rightful countries. But what's the process in the middle? So you've seized it by way of search for it.

Some dealers or legitimate museums like the metal say, okay, I see the paperwork. Keep it. But I'm sure there's competing stakeholders that'll be like, no, we're going to fight for the return of this or a country steps forward and says, or you've identified the country as being where you're going to send it back. It doesn't go just search warrant back to the rightful owner, right? Isn't there a court process in between? Yes.

Okay. So there's a court that there's a court process in between. So if there is a prosecution, then that's one court process. If there's no prosecution, there's sometimes when we recover items, but there's no particular person that you can say is responsible or would have known. And so the, or if there is a confidential informant that we, that the prosecution doesn't want to reveal their sources. And so it's not worth prosecuting the person for.

And they just want to return it. Many of the many of the individuals who would claim ownership don't want to call attention to themselves. And so many of them will give the I will agree to relinquish their items and not fight for the ownership of the items. And but sometimes it has to go before a judge and the judge will have to determine the ownership. And that would be determined anyway that stolen property is determined. You know, that's a process that goes on

in any stolen property case where two different people claim ownership. And so that just happens through court process and a hearing and ownership and the ownership will be determined. And ultimately, once it's determined to go to back to its owner and the owner is a foreign country, it gets repatriated through a repatriation ceremony.

And I actually, there were a few times when DA Vance was out of the jurisdiction and I was the acting district attorney. And during those times, there were some repatriation ceremonies because the Manhattan DA's office has repatriated over 1,500 items that they've returned to the countries that they were stolen from. A lot of ceremonies.

Well, sometimes there's multiple items at one ceremony. But the ceremonies are quite moving actually. They're these official ceremonies that happen usually at the embassy of that country and sometimes at the DA's office and foreign dignitaries come and there's usually a like a handle and official signing of the documents and handing them over and it it's a formal ceremony. And the countries receiving these items that we're stolen from them, I mean, this is, when you think about it, these are precious works of art from their history, really is their cultural history.

And it's really moving what it means to them to receive these items back. But sometimes countries aren't ready for their items to receive them because perhaps they're still in the midst of some kind of destabilized, a destabilized kind of situation. And those are the items that sometimes take a little bit longer to return. But there's, you know, right now they they have about a thousand or around a thousand items that are not in the process yet of, they're still in that process of that you were just asking about figuring out who the owner is to return them. What a fascinating aspect of your career. I'm so glad we had an opportunity to share it with

our listeners and followers. That's a wrap for this week. We're not we're not going to talk about mummies and sarcophaguses again, but what a light that we're shining on a corner of law that most podcasts aren't addressing and who better to do it with than my co-anchor KFA. The audio for this pod will be dropping tonight on all platforms in which you can get your podcasts from from Apple to Google to us even Spotify and join my anchor and co-anchor Ben Myceles this weekend when we do our regular edition of legal AF where we cover 10 or 11 hard hitting topics at the intersection of law and politics. We do that live with a recording at 8 p.m. Eastern time on YouTube for Midas Touch and also for Facebook for Midas Touch. And then we drop the audio midnight early Sunday morning for that particular podcast.

So any final words, Karen, before we sign off? The only final thing I will say is, is in the 10 years since the unit was created, Sotheby's has closed their New York auction of ancient art. They closed that in 2017 and moved it to London. It used to be in New York. They say it reflects, they did it because it reflects the demand from collectors. I found it interesting. Yeah, it sounds like you guys did a good job of getting an auction house to relocate. But this was my pleasure again, signing off Michael

Popak and Karen Friedman Agnifalo for the midweek edition of LegalAF. Shout out to the Midas Mighty and the LegalAFers. addition of legal a f, shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal a fers.