Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump ARRAIGNMENT RAMIFICATIONS and WHAT’S NEXT

Episode Date: June 18, 2023

The top-rated legal and political podcast Legal AF is back for another hard-hitting look at the most consequential developments at the intersection of law and politics with anchors Ben Meiselas & Michael Popok. On the weekend edition, they discuss: 1) new motions filed by the DOJ and Jack Smith to gag trump and limit his abilities to review any materials without his lawyers present and to publicly discuss the evidence the government provides him, as the DOJ signals that there are more upcoming criminal indictments involving Trump; 2) how a trial involving national security information works in real life with the jury and defense lawyers not having security clearance, 3) how the up to 8 upcoming criminal and civil trials against Trump in state and federal court will all be organized on the calendar remaining until the primaries and election, which one goes first, and what happens to the rest, and so much more.   DEALS FROM OUR SPONSORS! RHONE: Head to https://rhone.com/legalaf and use code LEGALAF to save 20% off your entire order! FAST GROWING TREES: Head to https://fastgrowingtrees.com/legalaf right now to get 15% off your entire order! GREENCHEF: Head to https://GreenChef.com/LegalAF60 and use code LegalAF60 to get 60% off and Free Shipping! AG1: Go to https://drinkAG1.com/LEGALAF and get 5 free AG1 Travel Packs and a FREE 1 year supply of Vitamin D with your first purchase! SUPPORT THE SHOW: Shop LEGAL AF Merch at: https://store.meidastouch.com Join us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/meidastouch Remember to subscribe to ALL the Meidas Media Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://pod.link/1510240831 Legal AF: https://pod.link/1580828595 The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://pod.link/1595408601 The Influence Continuum: https://pod.link/1603773245 Kremlin File: https://pod.link/1575837599 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://pod.link/1530639447 The Weekend Show: https://pod.link/1612691018 The Tony Michaels Podcast: https://pod.link/1561049560 American Psyop: https://pod.link/1652143101 Burn the Boats: https://pod.link/1485464343 Majority 54: https://pod.link/1309354521 Political Beatdown: https://pod.link/1669634407 Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://pod.link/1676844320 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There has been so much breaking news, it's hard to believe that Donald Trump was arrested and deranged in Miami federal courthouse this week. Happened this week, Popeye, let's talk about what has happened since the arrangement, the orders that have been issued by Judge Eileen Cannon, the motion for protective order filed by special counsel Jack Smith, the referral of that motion for protective order by Judge Eileen Cannon to magistrate judge Bruce Reinhart, the implications of that protective order as it relates to Donald Trump and his legal team. And then next, let's talk about the ramifications that are being felt from the indictment.

How are the federal criminal charges against Donald Trump impacting the state prosecutions and state criminal investigations and cases against Donald Trump? Popoq, I know you have your whiteboard filled with all of the various cases and investigations taking place. Also, the United States Supreme Court reached a unanimous decision in a case called Smith versus the United States, although the name Smith in the title of the case actually has nothing to do with special counsel, Jack Smith, but the implications of the case, as it relates to venue of a federal case, federal criminal case, and double jeopardy may, in fact,

impact decisions being made by special counsel, Jack Smith. Let's discuss that holding. And also, is special counsel, Jack Smith, engaged in other criminal investigations of Donald Trump and co-conspirators relating to the theft of national defense information in other jurisdictions in addition to the case filed in Florida? investigations, I perhaps call it an insurance policy, if you will, if judge Eileen Cannon, well, pulls a judge Eileen Cannon. Let's break it all down here on legal AF. I'm Ben Micellus. Join my my co-host Michael Popak.

Popak, can you believe that the arrangement happened this week? No, it's saying we've talked so much about it that I thought it was like last month, but yes, we just had federal indicted President of the United States. Before we get going, shout out to Ben, my cellus, you don't feel well. You have dragged yourself onto this podcast because it matters, and I appreciate it, and everybody in the audience does too. But I'd be remiss if I didn't tip my hat to you coming on air today, feeling the way that you do. I appreciate it. And we have a very perceptive community here at Legal AF in the Midas mighty. They noticed the moment I was coming down with something. I saw on the comments they were saying, Ben, it looks like you're coming down with something and they were spot on, but we'll plow through.

You're doing great. Yeah, the arrangement, let's just launch right into it. Went really the way that we thought it would go except the Department of Justice made some decisions before they got into the room with Magistrate Goodman, who's only around for that particular arrangement. He was the duty magistrate, the guy or the person that was just on duty on Tuesdays when the arraignment happened and got the pull of doing that particular assignment. He got to use Chief Judge Altenaga's courtroom and he thanked

her for that at the beginning. He thanked all the courtroom personnel and all the security personnel for making that possible. And then he started the arraignment. And the first thing we learned was there's the permanent lawyers, not temporary. They've identified themselves as such as Chris Keiss of his own law firm up in Tallahassee, Florida has already taken five million dollars from Donald Trump and saved the pack money for prior cases, other cases. He's going to be the local council, the Southern District of Florida Council, and he's going to be joined by the lead trial council, Todd Blanch, Todd Blanch, who left his own law firm to found a new firm so he could have one client, Donald Trump.

And all the talking was really done after that by Todd Blanch in response to questions by the magistrate. Magistrate was a little bit surprised that the government was not seeking to set stricter conditions on the release of Donald Trump, released because he had been arrested, just to remind everybody, processed book. Yeah, apparently there wasn't a mug shot in the Warren handcuffs, but everything else was done. And in order to release him from custody, there have to be conditions of that. And the magistrate was sort of scratching his head a little bit and saying to the Department of Justice,

I mean, I get you don't want a bond amount and you're gonna do a personal recognizance release. I guess that's okay, but don't you want our standard conditions down here on the Southern District of Florida? Don't you want limitations on contact with witnesses and other things. And their initial reaction was, no, they were not seeking when they walked into that courtroom. The Department of Justice lead prosecutors were not seeking really any conditions on release.

I have a theory about that. I'm going to do it when I give you my theory too. My theory is they want Trump to screw up. And the more opportunities and rope they give Donald Trump to screw up, the better it is for them. So they're not going to give me any specific conditions. What do you think? Same thing.

I mean, look what happened right after. He goes to Bedminster. He gives a press conference or he gives a speech to the ridiculous audience there where he basically further admits to the crimes. And he goes, these are mine. I demand that you give all of these classified documents back to me. And so he basically further incriminated himself. And if there was, you know, some sort of gag order, if there were some limitations on

his ability to travel. If you impose limitations and restrictions, you may actually stop him from committing crimes. And one of the things we know we'll talk about in a little bit, when it's respect to the motion for protective order that special counsel, Jack Smith, filed, is that there are, on the second page, you'll see that there's ongoing investigations relating to the documents as well. So in addition to the fact that special counsel, Jack Smith is still obviously engaged

in a criminal investigation relating to Trump's conduct as it relates to the insurrection and sedition and wire fraud, I think there's still other investigations taking place relating to the documents specifically, the SB&AJ act provision that relates to transmission because right now, Donald Trump was only charged with the withholding, the willful withholding, not the transmission. And we know, for example, the transmission took place in Jersey. Yeah, and that opens up the whole door to, are we done with this

question of venue and location for the trial? People are ringing their hands about, well, why did they check the box the Department of Justice for West Palm Beach? Because they could have drawn cannon with that. That's not by accident. Let's give Jack Smith and his team credit where credit is due. They haven't made one fall step in the last seven months, not one, not one procedurally, factually in terms of the presentation,

the indictment, nothing. And so they knew there was a chance they could pull Canon, but they're willing to live with her understanding that if she's gonna give what normally happens with trial judges, most of the major issues get decided not by her, but by magistrate judges like Judge Reinhart, who she's already delegated and referred major matters to in this case, we'll talk about them. Then, you know, yes, there'll be a motion

to dismiss the indictment. There'll be a motion to suppress evidence, but I'm not even sure the motion to suppress evidence. And we'll walk through some of those factors later, would go to her or she would in this this case, allow it to go to her, she might just let Reinhardt, the magistrate, take on as much as possible to take away from that, you know, she's got eyes in here. She knows that people think that she was way over her skis and pro-Trump and making her earlier decisions

in the case of Trump versus the United States following the Mar-a-Lago search warrant execution. And so one of the ways she can sort of rebuild her credibility is lean in and lean on the federal magistrate, in this case, magistrate, right heart, and let him do a lot of the heavy lift. And I think that's what you're starting to see already. Back to Goodman for a minute, you know, he did impose his own restriction. And Judge Goodman actually pushed

back in the Department of Justice and actually imposed his own condition that the Department of Justice wasn't even looking for. I hear you, but I'm going to impose a special condition. The special condition of release is that there not be any contact about the case between Donald Trump and witnesses identified by the Department of Justice in a list identified by them to the defense. That led to a whole debate in the courtroom led by Todd Blanche and the lawyers for the Department of Justice, the special prosecutor about it, special prosecutor pushed back and said, no, it's really hard, we don't want to do that. But ultimately, Ryan Hart said, I don't care. I'm imposing the condition.

And you'll come up with the list, Department of Justice. Good, man. Good, man. Yeah, good, man. Yeah, exactly. Thanks. You come up with the list. You don't have to make it all inclusive.

You can just put the ones you're worried about, basically. And give that list to the defense. And that, and they're not going to be able to talk, except through attorneys directly to the people on that list about the case understanding that Many of the witnesses work at Mar-a-Lago and still are on the payroll of Donald Trump Some of them as closest Walt now to the co-defendant who almost got a reign but not quite But did get released that day. He's still working for the president as the person who's with the closest and physical proximity Of anybody because he's the body man, Butler, valet guy. And so that was a whole big debate about that.

I think it where it landed, where that plane landed is the government will develop a list that it thinks is prudent and appropriate. It'll give it to the defense and that's going to be the list. And that was a decision made by this random day, day, duty match straight, match straight goodman, but it looks like it's going to hold. The rest of it, no bond, no bail, of course, no pre-trial detention, in this case, the department justice wasn't looking for that,

because as Ben and as you and I just said, the more you put Donald Trump out into the world without any restrictions, the more new evidence that will be generated, that will help you. And that's what they're hoping for, that they get more gifts every day from Donald Trump. So that was that won't now, that didn't have a lawyer that was admitted to practice before that court. They rescheduled that for the 27th of June.

Blanche made an interesting comment, but I don't know if you caught this. Without naming names, he was obviously talking about Evan Corcoran. Evan Corcoran is going to be a lead witness for the prosecution. It's not just his 50 pages of hand written notes as an attorney for Donald Trump from Aralago

or his testimonies or his audio recordings. He's going to testify live in a courtroom in front of a jury. And they're going to have that fight. That's going to be the first hand-of-hand combat between the defense and the prosecution is a motion to suppress that evidence because they're going to claim that the attorney client privilege should not have been stripped away from Donald Trump because he holds the privilege as the client to force Evan Quarker into testify

about all the deepest, darkest conversations about them and that the crime fraud exception should not have been applied by Chief Judge Barrel Howell who found that it was more likely than not that Donald Trump committed a crime or a fraud using his lawyer and therefore stripped him of that privilege. If that's going to be the first major fight in the case, but one of the comments that Blanche made in the courtroom made my hair stand on end, which was he said, one of the lead lawyer witnesses is still a lawyer for Donald Trump. If he's talking about Evan Corcoran and Evan Corcoran, we've all reported because we believe that was true based on prior reports by Evan Corcoran that he had quit the case.

If they've tried to bring him back under the tent in order to strengthen their hand on a future motion to suppress, that's bombshell news. You and I are going to have to continue to follow whether Evan Corcoran is going to be able to be that lawyer or the prosecutor is going to move to the qualify him as a lawyer because of his role as being a chief witness against his own client. This is not over, but that's who I think that they were talking about Todd Blanch was talking about in the courtroom. What do you think, Ben? Yeah, you know, I mean, it's possible that Evan Corcoran is representing Trump on other matters as well. And so we'll see.

But a flurry of motions and orders were filed. One of the first indications that Judge Eileen Cannon was not going to self-reques came when she filed an administrative order directing all of Donald Trump's lawyers to contact the Department of Justice and make sure that they fill out all the appropriate paperwork because this is a case brought under the Statue known as SEPA the classified information Procedures act so the fact that she filed a substantive order told us well if she was gonna recuse She would have recused already and then thereafter later in the, Special Counsel Jack Smith filed a motion for protective order

before Judge Eileen Cannon, which also indicated to us that the Department of Justice is not going to be filing at least as of yet a motion to recuse because they would have done that presumably before filing this motion for protective order. So Popo, first talked to us about what this motion for protective order is. I will note this though as well. Judge Eileen Cannon did the correct thing with the motion for protective order. So the first ruling she's made is the

correct one. I mean, it's giving her a lot of credit for something that's fairly simple. But before she clearly violated the law, he or she referred the motion for protective order to magistrate judge Bruce Reinhart to decide and she didn't make the decision on her own. But walk us through what the protective order motion is about. And are you surprised that special counsel Jack Smith did not file the motion for recusal at this point?

Well, let me start with that one. I'm not surprised. I think that they were very... Anybody that thinks Jack Smith and Jay Brad and all the people that are leading the team on the Mar-a-Lago case did not Take into account the possibility on a venue decision that they made a definitive decision They made for a reason that they could they could pull Eileen counting people are fooling themselves. They are Whip smart they knew that that was a chance I'm not surprised if they even called over to clerk and found out the odds, which we later found out was one in four, not one in 15. And so they knew that could happen. I think they got a couple of cards up their sleeve. One, they already went a couple of rounds in a heavyweight match with Eileen Cannon and she almost got knocked out by the 11th circuit. Her boss is including the chief judge and a lot of Trump judges were against her.

So they have a maybe a slightly singed, if not chased, Judge Cannon, who has got a mind or peace and queues a little bit better this time around. They let her play it out even when she made initially bad rulings in the Trump versus US case after Mar-a-Lago to stop the criminal investigation in its tracks, they let her make a couple of decisions that they didn't quite like. And then when it finally got to that third, like the special master will look at the hundred documents, they're like, okay, enough. Now we're going to go to the 11th Circuit with a full body of record here.

I think something similar here, they're going to watch her carefully. If she does anything kind of weird and already she hasn't, weird would be her jumping into the mix and taking away from the magistrate judge who this is really what they do, this is their bailiwick, taking away from them, discovery issues, issues about, you know, even national security, security clearance issues in a case like this, that goes to the magistrate. I mean, that those are things, the magistrate judge, especially in criminal law, is given a tremendous amount of responsibility and power to handle the day to day matters of a

case, even ones that implicate national security issues. If she hadn't done that and said, I got this, or Ryan Hart, have a seat, I'll take a, I'm the, I'm the article three judge. Then you and I or I browse would have went up as would have, uh, Jack Smith. So I think they're testing her. This is probing and testing by the Department of Justice to see if she can stay in her lane. And if she doesn't, they know either because it's a seeAPA classified information procedures, ACKs, or otherwise, they have a fast track to the 11th circuit as an outlet if they need it. Also, they have, as you mentioned earlier, in the most of a protective order that I'll go over now,

they've indicated that there is an ongoing series of investigations about documents and other things, i.e., we know there's multiple grand juries out there, some of these witnesses overlap, some of the documents and evidence overlap, and then you have this issue of venue. Like, why are we in South Florida? And how did we end up in Miami? Well, Jay Bratt, who's the chief lawyer for the prosecution, checked the box for West Palm Beach because that, that signaled an underlying, debate that in the resolution of that debate within the Department of Justice,

where do we sue Donald Trump? Where do we indict Donald Trump? And there is a case that just came out about two or three days after the indictment that I know they were carefully watching. that just came out about two or three days after the indictment that I know they were carefully watching. Their boss, Merrick Garland, was a pellet judge for a long, long time. He didn't make it to the Supreme's, but he wasn't a pellet judge. And you know he's an academic. And they knew about the Smith case.

And what the Smith case eventually, the Supreme Court came out with, I think even at a nine and a no decision. Nine, nine. It's nine or, right? Yep. Everybody joined together. Is that if you indict somebody in the wrong venue, should have been San Diego and you did San Francisco, even though there might have been a hook for one of them, and it turns

out you were wrong, it is reversible error and gives right to a new trial. Now, it doesn't mean the person walks. They may walk from custody if they happen to be in custody. Because that was one of the issues there, oh, Pock, in the case, one of the issues was the criminal defendant in that case, if we were to use the example of Trump here, right? Let's presume that Trump, the DOJ brought the case

against Trump in DC, and then it went through trial, went to a jury, Trump was convicted, and then the DC circuit court of appeals found the wrong jurisdiction. Using this body of case law, had this case not been decided this way, Trump would have said, that functions as an acquittal. You can't now bring the case in Miami, the correct venue.

But here in the 9-0 decision, right? The Supreme Court said, well, it's reversible error, but that doesn't mean that Donald Trump you get acquitted. It just means that you start the whole process over again in the right court. And so I've seen a lot of people, there's seen a lot of people talking about this case and basically saying, well, you see, Jack Smith should have filed in the wrong jurisdiction

because the worst case scenario is, if it gets overturned, all you got to do is, you got to just try it in my army after kind of too bad. So I said, I want to talk to you about that and have the debate with you why I think that's wrong, but first let's go to a quick ad break. This is Michael Popok from Legal AF. If you like me, you understand the pains of choosing what to wear. Let's face it, most clothes are uncomfortable or too tight or are never actually the size you really are, not to mention the annoyance of trying to put a good outfit together.

And when you do have a good fit, you can only wear it for a few hours before you have an important meeting or dinner. And then you got to change all over again. Everyone wants to dress the best and look good at all times because, frankly, it's a confidence booster. So here's the deal. Men's closets were due for a radical reinvention and Rome stepped up to the challenge. Ron's commuter collection is the most comfortable, breathable, and flexible set of products known to man. And here's why. Ron helps you get ready for any occasion with the commuter collection, which offers the world's most comfortable pants, dress shirts, one-quarter zips, and polos. You never have to worry about what

to wear when you have the Ron commuter collection Rhone's comfortable for-a-way stretch fabric provides breathability and flexibility that leaves you free to enjoy whatever life throws your way, from your commute to work to your 18 holes of golf. It's time to feel confident without the hassle. With Rhone's Rakell release technology, Rakell's disappear as you stretch and wear the products, it's that easy. And with its gold fusion anti-odor technology, you'll be smelling fresh and clean all day long, and on top of that, Ron is 100% machine washable, so you can ditch the dry cleaner altogether. I absolutely love Ron.

As you can see, this has truly become my go-to commuter fit and on the legal AF podcast recordings. We're on the move a lot, whether it's jumping for meeting to meeting or catching a flight or an important dinner, the Rhone Commuter collection has never let me down. The versatility and comfort of the collection is undefeated. Even after I wear it all day, I still feel super fresh

because of that gold fusion anti-order technology. The commuter collection you can get you through any workday and straight into whatever comes next. Head to roon.com slash legal a f and use promo code legal a f to save 20% on your entire order. That's 20% on your entire order when you head to our H O N E slash legal a f promo code legal a f. Find your corner office.

Breathe some life into your own backyard with fastgrowingtrees.com this spring. From shade to fresh fruit to privacy and natural beauty, let fastgrowingtrees.com help you plant your dream garden with their expert advice and fast reliable shipping. Wish you had your own personal plant expert? Well, now you do with fastgrowingtrees.com. Their experts will help guide you on how to diagnose and treat common plant problems year round. Fastgrowingtrees.com's plant experts cure 8,000s of easy to grow plant, shrub and tree varieties for your unique climate. Myer lemons to evergreens and everything in between. Happy plants, happy home, right?

But sometimes it's hard to know which plants will do best. No problem. Because with fastgrowingtrees.com, you get customized recommendations based on your specific needs. Plus, their plant experts are always available to help keep your plants growing healthy through the season and beyond. No more waiting in long lines and hauling heavy plants around. With fastgrowingtrees.com you order online and your plants arrive at your door in just a few days. I love fastgrowing trees because I found that honey crisp apple tree I was looking for at a great price and you will too.

And with fastgrowing trees 30 day alive and thrive guarantee. You know everything will look great fresh out of the box. So join over 1.5 million happy fast growing trees customers. Go to fastgrowingtrees.com go to fastgrowingtrees.com slash legal AF now to get 15% off your entire order. Get 15% off at fastgrowingtrees.com. slash legal AF. Welcome back. We are live here on legal AF. Great adread. I hope I where we left off. We were talking about the United States Supreme Court case, Smith versus the United States, which was just decided on June 15th, the 9-0 decision having to deal with venue and the fact that if an individual is tried and convicted in the wrong venue

that doesn't serve as basically an acquittal of all of the charges for purposes of double jeopardy. It just means that the case can be retried in the correct jurisdiction. And before I left off, I was recounting some people who were trying to cite this case for the proposition of E.C. Special Counsel Jack Smith should have just filed in the wrong jurisdiction. And if he lost, what's the worst that's gonna happen? Then you just file in Miami, you know, two or three years from now, after all of the appeals, Popeyes, why is that? I do not.

I think you just gave me the answer in the rhetorical. Two or three years from now, why isn't that a good thing, Popeyes? First of all, the people that said that, and there are good legal analysts and people that we admire that said it, and I was shaking my head like, what are you talking about? The prosecution not only owns a calendar, they own a watch, and they know the time that they're up against.

They got the case seven months ago because that's when the special prosecutor was created by Merrick Garland, and there is a primary season and a presidential election that's coming up. And they don't have the luxury of waiting, trying an entire case seven or eight months from now over a couple of months, because it's a couple of month trial at best, maybe a month, month and a half, then finding out that there is then an appeal that would go six to eight months to a year where they've challenged the wrong venue in Washington DC and then a retrial in front of another judge in 2026. Do you see how this math doesn't really work? So people in order for people

to be upset with Jack Smith and again understand that legal IF, we think he hasn't made one false move in the last seven months at all. He's outmaned, outgunned, and outstrategized his opponents every way, shape and form, every witness, every witness is lawyer, not just Donald Trump's two lawyers, make that 25 lawyers for all the witnesses that they've outsmarted. And so people that in order to say we should he should await it in extra three days for the Smith decision to come out of the Supreme Court, we're putting way too much emphasis on Eileen Cannon and as the boogie man in the K, oh my god Eileen Cannon cases over Trump's going to win. We're done. No. Okay. She we have a backstop. It, it's instant appeal to the 11th circuit, which seems to be favoring the Department of Justice and all things Trump. Supreme Court, which even though it's supremely right wing, six to three, does not side with Trump on almost anything that hasn't over the last two years. So they know they've got that and they want it to avoid the venue issue because by sewing Donald Trump in his back yard

That eliminates one of several motions they're gonna make and a reversible error type motions and Just trying the case again doesn't help anybody. We want to get now. It's not just about getting indictments It's about getting convictions of Donald Trump and get them under our belt about getting convictions of Donald Trump and get them under our belt before we start getting into the 60 days, before an election, and the Department of Justice's manual that says, don't prosecute at that particular moment, although we'll talk about later

whether we think that's really gonna apply here. But if it does, and we're gonna talk about the four other civil and criminal cases later in the podcast that are all currently on the docket, right, with dates, but what, but what has now happened because the federal court, the federal indictment, having now been reached by Jack Smith and another one following close behind. He's also left open the door and he's sort of mentioned at Jack Smith and Jay Brad in their motion for protective order where they said, okay, we're not going

to try to gag him except in one major way. We'll give Donald Trump and his lawyers all the Brady BRAD, BRAD Y material, the material that the by due process, constitutionally, the prosecutors have to give the defense early on in a case, witness statements and documents and evidence, things that can both inculpate somebody, make them guilty and ex-culpate them, make them innocent, all has to go to the defense, but under certain restrictions and guidelines, protective order, which was agreed to buy, blanche, and keist for Trump. So this was submitted as an agreed order to the magistrate judge. And what it says is Trump will not be able to comment directly or indirectly about anything that he's given in evidence in the case, Brady material by the government, full stop and a story. And if he does criminal and civil contempt sanctions and other sanctions, he has to acknowledge

what exists. And so you have that. Then he has to Donald Trump and Walt Nowda have to look at these things under the watchful eye of their lawyers and their lawyers staff. They can't take anything with them. They can't have a box delivered to the Mar-a-Lago bedroom like he did with the documents originally to go look through them and then return it back to his lawyer. No trust. There's no trust and therefore no reason to verify. He has to look at it and there has to be a custodian of records at the law firm that

keeps track of the in and out of everything that's in those boxes and people have to sign certificates, experts and other people that would be looking at these things that work for the law firms that they acknowledge the existence of the protective order and will comply with it and not talk about anything in the box. And Donald Trump can take notes, but yes, those notes stay with the lawyers and stay under lock and key and have to be cataloged. So it's a very tight, tight thing there related to the documents that are being exchanged. Now one other open item, you have the ability based on the protective order and

the motion for it, that there are other ongoing investigations, and there's other cases that could be filed. There could be a case filed against Donald Trump, even related to documents in SB NOS Act, in either DC and or Bedminster. Everybody on our show says, what about Bedminster? We now know there was a SUV, there was a private jet filled with boxes. They never executed a search warrant there. They're instead relying on witness testimony of the maintenance worker and Walt Nauta eventually and Evan Corcoran to put that case together. But so they don't need a search warrant. They're just going to say, you got it. You took it with you. The two items that are listed in the indictment that you took with you to bed

Minster and you showed like the war map and the nuclear codes. That's it two counts two out of the 37 against you from bed Minster so they could do a new jersey which would be the district of New Jersey is one district in New Jersey District of New Jersey federal judge that could be another case with another grand jury That's those doors are all left open. The open item I want to also do a quick one with you Ben here, and I'll do a hot take on it, is people are wondering, if it's all classified in top secret and there's 31 counts related to the highest level of our national security defense information, how do you show this to the jury, let alone the lawyers and the accused?

Because they have a due process right to see the evidence against them, whether it's the sixth amendment or the fifth amendment, they have a right. And the jury and the accused has a right to a public trial. So how do you do all that? Well, firstly, we have an order by Judge Can that tells the defense, hurry up and get your security clearance

through the Department of Justice and the Feds. Takes about a month, start it now, hurry up because you're not gonna get any of the top secret to classify information until people on your legal team are cleared to look at these things. So that process has already started, takes about 30 days, know, it could be a little bit shorter, a little bit longer, but they're not going to be seeing the bad stuff until they get that clearance. Then as to the others, like Donald Trump, if it remains a top secret classified document,

and we know there's at least 31 at the highest level, they They gotta go look at it in a skiff, in a segment, you've been sensitive to apartment and information. Thank you. I'm down to the acronyms. There is not a skiff in the Miami courthouse. There is one across the street. So they're gonna have to go look at documents in this secured room.

That's the second thing. And then the third thing people wonder, well, how is it jury gonna hear about all this? All right, here's how that works. And I'll do a hot take on it. Under the silent witness rule, the jury will see these things in camera. We'll see the really, the secret sauce

of all these top secret nuclear codes and things that are really, you know, the 31 counts of the indictment and the pieces of paper that go with that, they'll see it in confidence, confidential areas, in private, they won't have to apparently get their own top secret security clearance, but they will, of course, be admonished by the judge about what they can and can't do with that information, but they will see it in camera. In the courtroom, that information will not be revealed to the public.

Instead, it'll be a version of country A's nuclear secrets. Prime Minister B made a comment, document 36, and they'll look it up on their little charts to see what document 36 is. And that's called the silent witness rule, meaning the witness that's testifying about the document has to redact from the information anything that's top secret of classified. And this is the battle, the tension between the intelligence community that really cares about what's in those boxes and the impact it has on our national security and compromising

our national security, which is why we're here under the SB Nudge Act. Not because we're retaliating in a political way against Donald Trump. It's because he compromised and put our country at risk because of what he did. So you got the tension between the intelligence community and the prosecutors. The prosecutors, if left to their own devices, they'd show it all. They got their own fifth and sixth amendment considerations. They want to avoid a reversible error They don't want to give the defense an ability to To have the case try it again and they want to show it all and the intelligence community is like you can't do that

Because it's intelligence its intelligence information. They'll put our country at risk So the way they compromise is through that silent witness rule the funny thing is Ben I just and doing the research for the pot today silent witness rule. The funny thing is, Ben, I just been doing the research for the pod today, that issue, even though it's been done for years in courthouses, 40 years, the silent witness rule has been done as a matter of common law. There's only one case that has approved it officially on the record. It was two years ago, dealing with a case in Virginia, the Mallory case. That's it. That's the entire jurisprudence around the silent witness rule, although it's been done dozens and dozens and dozens of times.

And that's how we expect it'll be done here. Yep. And a few things. So first and foremost, Judge Eileen Cannon's two main substantive orders have followed the law and in fact have expedited things, right? As you mentioned, expediting the security clearance process for Donald Trump's lawyers, Eileen Cannon right away said, get it done immediately, like within a five day period come back and submit a certification of compliance. And then as soon as special counsel Jack Smith submitted the protective order judge Eileen Cannon, the protective order was actually submitted to Judge Eileen Cannon.

And I think Jack Smith was doing that purposefully. I think Jack Smith knew that it would normally go to the magistrate, right? But I think he was testing Eileen Cannon, and she did the right thing. She immediately sent it to magistrate judge Bruce Reinhart. You know, for all those people too who were saying,

well, you know, was Jack Smith getting soft or, you know, what's Jack Smith doing here? And without flinching, he filed a 37 count indictment against Donald Trump seeking 400 years in prison, okay, and he's developed one of the most qualified teams of national security lawyers who are working with special counsel Jack Smith. We mentioned Jay Bratt who is the counselor to the special counsel, Julie Edelstein, senior assistant, special counsel, Karen Gilbert, assistant, special counsel, David Harbock, assistant, special counsel.

Those names will start talking more about those are the people who are going to be in the courtroom. So far from anything weak or soft, as we mentioned earlier in this episode, no, it was kind of putting traps that there for Donald Trump knowing that Donald Trump's going to do exactly what he did that night after the arrangement at Bedminster where he said, yeah, I took them and they better return it to me. Everybody knows I should get it back. And then he went on his social media platform and said the same thing. I demand they return all of those documents. They are all mine, which again is just more evidence because in these criminal cases, people like Donald Trump have the

right to remain silent. He would almost certainly be invoking his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination and not testify, but these are statements against a party opponent. This is better than depositions. This is better than testimony. This is better than any discovery, special counsel, Jack Smith could ever wish for in some of their other espionage cases. They had to go through tens of thousands of emails to try to find one

smoking gun email that says everything that Donald Trump says every day over and over again. You know, and then there are some people too, and Pope, I know you've got this message where they say, Ben and Pope, you've told us, you know, that you're not worried about Eileen Cannon. Why are you saying that you're not worried knowing what's happening right now? I think it's because of the fact that we've practiced this trial lawyers. We know the duration of what these cases are. We know who the players are and special counsel Jack Smith's team. As we stated, you know, with special counsel Jack Smith, going to seek a recusal right away. As you mentioned earlier in this episode under the classified information procedures act, a lot of these issues will be expedited

to the 11th circuit. If Judge Eileen Cannon makes a bad ruling. And so I really am not worried at all. The same way everybody was saying, I remember when everyone was saying this, Popeyes, when we were getting a lot of crap because people were saying, the Maricarlan's soft, there's no way there's gonna be an indictment. Yeah, there's no balls.

You know, and I heard all that and I said, no, here's the team, the special counsel, Jack Smith is being put in there because if there's a crime, he's not going to be scared. He's not going to be a Mueller. It's the exact opposite of that. And then finally, we talk about what's in that protective order, that Easter egg, if you will, where special counsel, Jack Smith talks about other investigations that are related to this one

of other individuals who may be charged. And so many have speculated, including us, that that's referring to potential crimes relating to transmission of national defense information under the SB& Ajak because notably missing from this 38 count indictment with 37 counts against Donald Trump and one that did an overlap with his co-defendant Walton. Now, is the transmission? It was just willful retention of the national defense information, but clearly what took place at Bedminster was the transmission of it, not just the retention of it. So we will see there.

We will be following it. Well, let's do a segue. Let's do a segue. There's another case, the case of Armin Tashera, who just got indicted in Massachusetts for six counts. Many of them overlapping with Donald Trump's counts, including the Espionage Act, which answers the question for those that asked it

on the Republican or Maga side. What did Donald Trump do? They were so wrong. He's not a spy. He's not, Espionage, he didn't commit Espionage. It doesn't matter what his intentions were. All it matters is that he didn't accidentally, but instead intentionally and willfully retain national defense information, whether he used it was

going to use it, plan to use it doesn't matter that he had it in his possession and refused to return it upon demand. A man that started while he was still in the White House with the National Archive all the way through his his Mara Lago from the Sapina all the way to the search port warrant and all the way to today. Okay, he still has the opportunity, well, let's let's say just before indictment, he had the opportunity to come clean, turn over all the documents, have the DOJ and the FBI go in there and sort through the boxes themselves and take out what was necessary. And then sort of get wrapped on the knuckles and take his lumps. So I did not do that. You wanted to go all the way, but to share a, there's a quote, hopefully salty can put it

up. There's a quote in there that I love. It says, this is from Merrick Garland and Christopher Ray, the FBI director. And it says that the FBI and our partners remain firm and our commitment to hold accountable those who endanger our national security and the security of our allies around the world. That's a message to Donald Trump as well, that the law doesn't show favor or fear against anybody. You could be a 21 year old air corpsman, IT guy, who decides to take a series of documents and share it with his buddies on a gaming platform

to which compromise the national security of this country, including about the Ukraine and the war there and other people. Or you can be Donald Trump, what would, what, uh, magistrate Goodman kept reminding the defense lawyers on the team was former president Donald Trump. They kept saying president Trump and Goodman kept saying former president, uh, Donald Trump. And that it doesn't matter, um, that he had an obligation to return these things and it's not the back to the what about is him and their defense. It's not about what about Hillary and the server, what about Biden and the Corvette and the garage, what about Pence, what about Obama and his library. That's not what it's about. What it's about is that he obstructed justice. He hid the documents. He spoon fed the documents the national archive

He hid them from his own lawyer. He compelled them to lie the lawyers to lie to the Department of Justice and Subborn perjury if you will that's illiterated to that. Hillary didn't when they were coming for the server in Chapacua she didn't take it and put it on a midnight flight to Little Rock. Okay. She didn't have the IT. I mean, the IT guy think in a transfer erased a couple of emails. All right, but she came clean right away, right? And it probably helped tank her career and her ability to become the president of the United States because of that and what at the time the FBI director decided to do with her during the last two weeks stretch of the election. But she took, all right, she did the right thing, Biden the same thing.

Soon it, they didn't, it wasn't a whistleblower on Biden. He went back and said, hey, we don't have anything in a glass house sitting somewhere and they reported, oh, we got a problem. We got a lot closet, University of Delaware, a bunch of your documents. Oh, turn them over immediately. Get rid of them. Have them search the house. That's Joe Biden.

That's why he's not charged with SB and Ajak. Mike Pence, I presume the same thing. It's not the same thing. It's not an equivalency. You're conflating two different things. Having the cookie jar and having your hand in the cookie jar are two different concepts. They're apples and lawn mowers.

They're not even fruit that's being compared. So that's where we are with all things, I think, on the arrangement. Yep. And let's talk about the ramifications of the arrangement on the various state prosecutions. Is it going to delay the state prosecutions and what can we expect there, but before doing that, let's take our last break of the day. All you're going to love this one. Green Chef has expanded their menu.

Now choose from over 50 weekly menu and market items with the option to mix and match meals in the same box without changing your plan. Get everything you need at Green Market, your one-stop shop for quick breakfasts, brunch kits, wholesome lunches, and more you can easily add onto your weekly order. Green Chef is the number one meal kit for eating well, with meals that work for you, not the other way around. Celebrate summer with seasonal recipes featuring certified organic fruits and vegetables, organic cage-free eggs, and sustainably sourced seafood. Green Chef is the only meal kit that has both carbon and plastic offset. Green Chef

offsets 100% of their delivery admissions to your door, as well as 100% of the plastic in every box. Plus nearly all packaging materials are curbside recyclable in most areas in the US. Bring more flavor to your table this summer with green chef's delicious, nutritionist-approved recipes featuring certified organic fruits and vegetables and unique farm fresh ingredients like tart cherries, truffles est and rainbow carrots. My absolute favorite spicy chicken and broccoli stir fry. Delicious. Go to greenchef.com slash legal AF 60 and use code legal AF 60 to get 60% off plus free shipping. That's greenchef.com slash legal AF 60 and use code legal AF 60 to get 60% off

plus free shipping. Greenchef, the number one meal kit for eating well. Our next partner is HG1, the daily foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole body health. I drink it literally every day. I gave HG1 a try because I was tired of taking so many supplements and I wanted a single solution that supports my entire body

and covers my nutritional basis every day. I want a better gut health, a boost in energy, immune system support, and wanted a supplement that actually tastes great. I drink AG in the morning to start my day. It makes me feel unstoppable and ready to take on anything. And on top of it all, I'm doing something good for my body. I'm giving my body the nutrition it craves and I'm covering my nutritional basis. I've tried a ton of different supplements out there, but this is different. And the

ingredients are super high quality. I got started with AG1 because I used to take all these different pills and gummies, who knows what, and frankly what I was taking was expensive, and I didn't even know if it was good for me. But with AG1, I know what I'm consuming has the best ingredients and also taste delicious. AG1 makes it easier for you to take the highest quality supplements, period. When I started my AG1 journey, very quickly, I noticed that it helps me with improved digestion, energy, and overall, I just feel great.

It's just one scoop of powder mixed with water, once a day, making it a seamless and easy daily habit to maintain. I'm asked all the time about the one thing I do to take care of my health if I could only pick one. It be foundational nutrition and AG1 is a top foundational nutrition product. Just one daily serving gives me the comprehensive foundational nutrition I need and supports energy, focus, strength, and clarity with 75 high quality vitamins, probiotics, and whole food source ingredients. I can't think of another daily routine that pays off as well as AG1, which is why I trust the product so much. If you're looking for a simpler effective investment for your health,

try AG1 and get 5 free AG1 travel packs and a free one year supply of vitamin D with your first purchase. Go to drinkag1.com slash legal AF. That's drinkag1.com slash legal AF. Check it out. Welcome back. Great ad reads Michael Popeye. We are live here. So many of them live here on legal AF. Want to mention this so that my younger brother, Jordi does not get mad at me. Make sure you get your convict or convict 45 pin at store.mitustouch.com. We are running out of these pins.

And Jordi wants to make sure that everybody who wants someone gets one before we run out of inventory. Go to store.mitustouch.com. We got a bunch of other great stuff. They are 100% union made, 100% made in the US. And also you may be seeing on the chat in the YouTube a bunch of Jack Smith emojis and legal AF emojis and just so everybody knows how that works. If you become a member of the YouTube, which is different than Patreon, but if you become a member of the YouTube page, there's that dollar sign at the bottom. You become a member, then you get access to the emojis.

And also, if you're already a member, you could buy other people membership so they could use emojis. So you can gift memberships and then you could could put if you want to be the recipient of a gift You could click the dollar sign and say you want to be a recipient of the gift But some fun emojis there and speaking of Jack Smith before getting into the ramifications. There's one other Of the arrangement. There's one other observation that I just want to make was that during the arrangement How special counsel Jack Smith was staring at Donald Trump. And for all of Donald Trump's provato and bluster, wouldn't look Jack Smith in the face

once, even though they were only about six to 10 feet apart, Jack Smith was looking right at him, which just goes to show you, there's only one way you could really deal with Trump, which is directly with the force of the law, you know, no excuses, no delays. And that's Jack Smith here, pursuing a very aggressive prosecution. But Popoac, why didn't you tell us about the ramifications and what, tell me there's a lot of other cases still going on. There's Manhattan district attorney case. There's the criminal case.

That's trial supposed to go March of 2024. There's Fulton County District Attorney Fawni Willis. We expect an indictment against Donald Trump to take place in early August. There's the other special counsel Jack Smith case relating to the January 6th insurrection, not to mention potentially other criminal investigations still relating to the willful transmission of national defense information. There's the civil case by New York Attorney General Leticia James talking about civil cases in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case

against Donald Trump, the first case which still hasn't gone yet. Judge Lewis Kaplan set a trial date there for January 15th of 2024 and allowed EGN Carol to amend the complaint to add all of these additional allegations based on the defamatory statements Donald Trump made at that so-called CNN town hall and all the stuff that he did and said on a social media platform after he lost in the other trial where a jury awarded E. Jean Carroll $5 million, which Trump is appealing.

So a lot of cases, it's going to keep us very busy. But tell us what are some of these ramifications that may be dig wrong. As you just rattled off, we got four trials in six months, but do we? Sounds good. But we'll talk about what the reality is now the federal indictment in the West Palm Beach Miami That we've we've talked at length about on this podcast has already come down and what that does the kind of change the weather in the room Related to all the other cases. Let's do them in order first just to show what's already on the board against him Assuming there were no other delays or preemptions, not well

not preemptions, stays or postponements of trial. So it's no particular order except for date order. We have the New York Attorney General, Letitia James, has her civil fraud case currently on the books and that's for $250 million against everybody named Trump, including Donald Trump for October of 2023 in front of Judge Angoran and a jury in New York State Supreme Court. That's October 2023. Southern flipping over to the federal court, also in New York, on the Southern District of New York, we've got, I was going to call it EG in Carol 2, but it's really EGN Carol 1 plus because it is the EGN Carol case about defamation and punitive damages based on Donald Trump to faming her again at the CNN town hall in May a day or two after her first trial.

And that the judge has allowed the complaint to be amended, the pleading, which is the operative document to be amended over objection by Alina Haba on behalf of Donald Trump and has already set because he's ready to go. And there's not much discovery that has to be done. It was a two hour town hall. I've set that for January 15th of 2024. That has lead counsel, Robbie Kaplan. And I don't know, I guess, Joe Takapina,

if you're spinning a wheel for Donald Trump. And then just 14 days later, also in the Southern District, now we're moving back to a civil case, and not criminal case, a multi-level marketing fraud case brought against also everybody named Trump, including his children, on the 29th of January of 2024, involving ACN, which was a class action case, same lawyer as E. Jean Carroll has, Robbie Kaplan brought that case. That's just two weeks

after this case. So those two are going to have to get sorted out. Then on March 25th of 2024, the 2024 judge, Mershahn, is currently presiding over the 34th count criminal state case against Donald Trump arising out of the story. We Daniels Hushbunny cover up a fair. And so that's scheduled. And we've got a indictment of Donald Trump in Florida, but not yet a trial date. We've got an indictment coming from Farnie Willis at the end of July beginning of August, but of course, not yet a trial date. So how do we put all these in? And are the other prosecutors in attorney general is worried? And the answer is yes.

In fact, I think we're going to play the the clip now of Tish James, Latisha James, New York Attorney General on a competing podcast, but one that we like, giving her comment right after the indictment this week in Miami about what that could mean for her case and the other cases. Let's play it. The special counsel has asked for a speedy trial for this. Is this going to intersect with your case at all? How is everybody going

to manage the calendar here? So in all likelihood, I believe that my case as well as DA Bragg and the Georgia case will unfortunately have to be adjourned pending the outcome of the federal case. So it all depends upon the scheduling of this particular case. I know there's going to be a flood, a flurry of motions, motions to dismiss, discoveries, all of that. So it really all depends. Obviously all of us want to know what this judge, Judge Cannon is going to do,

and whether or not she's going to delay this particular case. Are you concerned about that? I think everyone is concerned about that. So obviously we'll depend upon the scheduling. For those that don't know what Latisha James looks and sounds like, you got a good opportunity to see you're there in an informal setting, Powerhouse, we respect her. I'm a I practice, this is Manhattan behind me. I practice in one of her parts of her jurisdiction, but she is she is worried that the federal case that Jack Smith has brought

is going to bump all the rest of them back. I think she's definitely right on her own, her own case. I think it could easily be bumped back because of it. And the reason is, I mean, generally federal cases do, do generally take priority over the same defendant in, um, over state cases and especially over civil cases. Federals go first, one, because in the federal system and under our constitution, there is a right to a speedy trial, meaning you could go as early as 70 days. It's supposed to be 70 days from indictment to trial, but let's

be honest, complicated cases like the one against Donald Trump, even the government doesn't think they can do it in 70 days, including the exchange of documents information and get ready for trial. So the Trump Trump is going to waive his right to speedy trial, and that's going to allow Judge Cannon. And that is the one that's going to set the trial to set a trial. We hope in 2024. The defense is going to push for as far out beyond primaries and election as possible while the product prosecution is going to. So that's the push and the pull for the prosecution is going to be, no, no, we need four months total. Let's do it. First quarter, maybe second quarter of 2024. Meantime, Tish James, like I got a civil case, even though it's a amazing civil case

that has abilities to bankrupt Donald Trump and put him out forever with a $250 million plus a Discouragement amount. Civil cases take a back seat and state civil cases, take a back seat, the federal criminal cases. The one case that I wanna hear your opinion on this one, Ben. The one case that I think may survive being big bigfooted by the federal criminal case in Jack Smith is Judge Mershans case, which was the first file Manhattan, DA got out of the shoot first. They indicted

Donald Trump first two months ago, 34 counts, business record fraud, state claims in state court. Yes, there's an attempt by Trump to drag it into federal court. Let's assume it doesn't go there. Or that it stays on that same docket. I think Mershon is going to be like, well, that's great. But, you know, the prosecutor here was the first to file. I got a trial date. Everybody's ready. I told you to clear your calendars. You did. And as long as there's not and it directs like Judge Cannon sets her trial for March or just around March of 2024, gentlemen, ladies, you're going to trial. What do you think? I think we really have to see what you said at the end there is Judge Eileen Cannon going

to set her trial for March. Is she going to set it within 90 days? Is she going to try to delay this thing for years? Is there going to be a ton of motion practice? You could almost certainly assume that Donald Trump's lawyers are going to file every single motion imaginable, motion after motion to try to delay it. How will Judge Eileen Cannon balance that? So that's the key thing that we're going to have to look at for the next two weeks because Judge Eileen

Cannon delays this thing for a significant period of time. Well, then I think Latisha James civil case goes and Manhattan district attorney's case goes. If Judge Eileen Cannon sets this trial as special counsel Jack Smith wants it, a speedy trial, and it overlaps, I think the federal case would have precedent clearly over the civil case and I think also clearly over another federal other state criminal case, federal criminal case, what have precedent over a state criminal case, especially one involving the types of charges here and the federal indictment versus the falsification of business records in the state criminal case. So there there's not a lot of bad outcomes, right? Because either one gets pushed back and one gets moved forward or, you know,

but special counsel Jack Smith is trying to move this quick, which if that's achievable, I think we'd all be okay with the other cases being moved back because, you know, they can't take place at the same time. That's an impossibility. They can't overlap. So you'd have to build in gaps between. And in the air traffic controller system, which there isn't one, especially between state and federal and criminal and civil, there's a few more planes that are going to get added

to that runway. Right. You've got, we know, based on even current data points that Fannie Willis, Fulton County, D.A. Atlanta, is gonna indict Donald Trump in a July beginning of August. So that's another plane on the runway. Jack Smith is not done, whether it's another Mar-a-Lago indictment out of New Jersey or DC,

or the Jan 6, the heart of the Jan 6, prosecutions related to the insurrection and the interference with the peaceful transfer of power or the grifting by Donald Trump in his fundraising and the fraud related to that. There could be two, three, four, five more planes added to the four that we just talked about. And all of those have got to be sufficiently coordinated among the council to have them and the judges to have these things go forward. But as you said, Ben, I can totally agree with you.

There's no bad outcome. This is like pinning, this is like Gulliver's travels where the lilyplutians are pinning the giant down one pin at a time onto the ground. I mean, each one of these stakes is like another, you know, he's got nine, ultimately nine civil criminal cases to deal with in a one or one and a half year period. He'll net, I'm just going to say the thing that people I think like to hear me say, because it's, I think it's true.

He's not going to win the presidency. He is not going to win the presidency. He is not going to win the presidency. And if he loses, which he will, to the Democrat, to Joe Biden running for re-election, he's toast. He's going to go, he's going to lose all of his money and he's going to go to jail and at least two, if not three, if not all of these criminal cases. The chances of Donald Trump running the table and going six and a, in six different criminal cases, either because he got a hung jury or because he got acquitted or because it's so infinitesimal that I wouldn't even bother to talk about it.

It's like getting struck by lightning for different times, not happening. That is the whistling in the graveyard, the Donald Trump and his cult like followers. That's what they're doing right now. This is weekend at Bernies. He's dead. They're just propping him up and dragging him around with lipstick and sunglasses for the next year and a half because their power positions depend on him maintaining a level of viability through primaries.

Yeah, man. Look, he's not even asserting legitimate defenses. All of his lawyers, whether it was Jim trustee or who is the other guy who left before trustee two or three weeks. John Raleigh. the other guy who left before trustee two or three weeks. John Raleigh. John Raleigh, but there was the other guy who left like two or three weeks. Tim Parlatory. Yeah, Tim Parlatory. You know, they were at least trying to create actual defenses to the crimes. And Trump's response was, no, I'm not even going to try to defend myself with the legal

defenses. I'm just going to try to destroy the system. I'm even going to try to defend myself with the legal defenses. I'm just going to try to destroy the system. I'm just going to try to break it. And that's Trump's gamble right here, which is he's going to try to break the system, destroy it, seize power, and then destroy the democracy. That's what he's trying to do. It's not, I'm actually going to legitimately defend these cases and defend these charges, which is why it's just so critical that we all remain

very vigilant, that we continue to build and expand this pro-democracy community. And it's why I'm just so grateful for all the legal a-f-ers out there. All the mightest mighty, everybody who watches and listens to this. Thank you. Thank you so much for being a part of this pro-democracy community, inspiring us, even when we're not feeling great to jump on and make sure we're sharing these weekends together and spreading the word about facts, truth, humanity, decency, dignity, the importance of our democracy with the love for our country, with the true love for our Constitution. So thank you all so much, Michael Popak.

Always a pleasure spending this time with you again, so that Jordy doesn't get upset at me. Everybody get your convict 45 pins at store.mightestouch.com. They really are cool pins. There's a bunch of other legal AF gear as well on store.mustouch.com. They really are cool pins. There's a bunch of other legal AF gear as well on store.mitustouch.com. Everything is 100% made in the US. Everything is 100% union made to all the YouTube viewers. Make sure you subscribe to legal AF on audio. Super simple to do. Just whatever audio podcast device you use, just subscribe to Legal AF. Search it, Legal AF.

And for those who listen on audio podcasts, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel by searching for the MidasTouch network. And if you want to access those emojis or become a member of our YouTube, you see that dollar sign at the bottom right of the YouTube. You could buy memberships or gift memberships for other people. Get yourself a membership and then you could unlock all of the emojis and other cool features that YouTube allows you to have. All right, thank you everybody for watching. I'm going to get a little bit of rest. Have a little bit of vitamin C, and try to take it easy.

Until next time, I'm Ben Myceles. Join my Michael Popeye. Have a great rest of the weekend. Have a great week, and a special shout out to the Midas Mighty. you