Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump Co-Defendant in DESPERATE SPIRAL after GUILTY PLEA and CAN’T STOP What’s Coming

Episode Date: October 23, 2023

Don’t believe the lawyer for Ken Chesebro when he says it’s no big deal that client just cooperated, or that he “only” pled guilty to one count of the indictment, but in the same breath says that his client never believed that Trump won the election. Michael Popok, if Legal AF explains that what you plead to and what you have to testify about are two entirely different things, and that this conviction will lead to all of Chesebro’s attorney client communications with and about trump going over to the prosecutors. Sign up at https://MoinkBox.com/LEGALAF and get FREE ground beef for a YEAR Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://pod.link/1510240831 Legal AF: https://pod.link/1580828595 The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://pod.link/1595408601 The Influence Continuum: https://pod.link/1603773245 Kremlin File: https://pod.link/1575837599 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://pod.link/1530639447 The Weekend Show: https://pod.link/1612691018 American Psyop: https://pod.link/1652143101 Burn the Boats: https://pod.link/1485464343 Majority 54: https://pod.link/1309354521 Political Beatdown: https://pod.link/1669634407 Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://pod.link/1676844320 Uncovered: https://pod.link/1690214260 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

is admitted his role in preparing documents that at the time he could acknowledge were false documents. He admitted to a conspiracy to commit the filing of false documents, but I want to be clear about something. He did not implicate anyone else. And listen, Ken Chesbro is not interested in defending anyone. You know, I've read, oh, he's defending Trump. He's not interested in defending Trump anyone, but he also didn't implicate anyone. He implicated himself.

And now a part of his plea deal is if he is called to testify, he will testify triply. And I can tell you he absolutely will. However, Frederica, I don't think that's a guarantee that he will be called. And personally, I don't see how his testimony hurts Donald Trump. But if he is called to testify for the state,

he'll come testify for the state. And Fredrika, if he's called to testify by my friend Steve Seidel who represents Donald Trump, then he will testify for Donald Trump. Or whoever else calls in to testify. And he's just going to come tell the truth and whatever side if that helps them, then that's up to them. This is Michael Pope, I'll go lay off.

I got a shove back hard against Ken Chesbro's lawyer, Scott Rubman, who just in the clip you just saw said it's no big deal that is client-planned guilty in Georgia against Donald Trump. He only pled guilty to a smaller conspiracy involving the fake electric certificates, which Donald Trump is also a co-conspirator of. He didn't plead guilty to the bigger conspiracy of the racketeering influence corrupt organization, Rico Conspiracy. And oh, by the way, as it aside, my client never believed that Donald Trump won the election. He always believed that Joe Biden won the

election. All right, let me unpack all of that and explain why it's a much bigger deal than this lawyer is trying to do his best to minimize and Ken Chesbro, his client cooperating with the, with the prosecutors, not just here, but ultimately, obviously in the District of Columbia as well. Firstly, what you plead to and what you have to do and what topics you have to discuss with the prosecutor in your fulsome cooperation are two completely different things, just because he only pled to one felony count, he was charged with over seven felony counts. And just because that one felony count only dealt with, and I put that in quotes, only dealt with the fake electoral certificates that he helped

devise the strategy of as the architect. That doesn't mean that's the limit of what his testimony is going to be, where the limit of his cooperation with the Georgia prosecutors. Ken Chesbro is going to testify at length about everything, including being a witness for the felony count that he didn't plead guilty to, which is the rico conspiracy. He can still be a witness for that. He'll talk about his interactions with John Eastman, indicted, the other constitutional law scholar.

I put that word in quotes, working with Donald Trump's team to devise the fake elector, alternate electors scheme, in which electors in seven battleground states would certify the election for Donald Trump, not Joe Biden, who won by their state popular vote, and then deliver those phony certificates to the national archive to the court system and to Mike Pence in a pressure campaign to try to get either Mike Pence to recognize the phony certificates and declare the election for Donald Trump or just say I can't figure it out and pound his head and so complicated will turn it over to the states and let the states pick Donald Trump as the president, which which happened back in the 1800s.

So, so there's no limit because of what he pled. That is the, that is the, that is the implication that Scott Grubman and that clip, that two second clip leaves. That's the impression he leaves with the American people that, well, he's only going to, he's only going to give testimony about the fake electors, not the broader scheme wrong. He's going to have to testify truthfully and cooperate falsely with the Georgia prosecutors, ultimately with Jack Smith and the DC federal election prosecutors about everything related to Donald Trump and everything he has seen heard with his five

senses that he knows every document he has and and now we're going to go to the attorney client, a privilege documents. He has a group of attorney client privilege documents. They're in the thousands. They rep, they're in emails. They're in memos. They're in correspondence. Could go all the way up to Donald Trump.

If not, the person right next to Donald Trump. And they are now gonna be not covered by a privilege because there is a fraud crime or crime fraud exception to the attorney client privilege. If the lawyer or the client participated in a crime or fraud, all of those emails are fair game and the privilege gets stripped, the lawyer just pled guilty to a crime.

That sort of solves for that problem. That's over. Those documents are the product of crime fraud exception and therefore the prosecutors are going to get their hands on it. That's one, two, there's no limit to the topics. He's not, it's not like the defense can stand up and say, well, Mr., Mr. Chess, bro, you, you played guilty to, to only count 15, but you're here testifying. It sounds like on count nine, objection, judge, witness, not qualified.

That's not how that works. The witness can testify as a lay witness about everything they observed and everything they participated in, regardless of what their plea deal is. So that's something I want to uncouple, right? So we only pled to a felony of one count, count 15 false submission of writings, which is the electoral certificate. So Sydney Powell, his other Trump or lawyer who also took a plea deal the day before,

she pled to a misdemeanor, doesn't matter. It's their testimony. It is't matter. It's their testimony. It is their knowledge. It is their documents. It is the destruction of the attorney client privilege and the for Donald Trump and taking those documents. That matters. I like knowing exactly where my meat comes from. And with Moink, that place is from small family farms all across the country. You can up save the family farm and get access to the highest quality meat on Earth when you join the Moink movement today. Moink delivers grass-fed and grass-finished beef and lamb,

pastured pork and chicken, and sustainable wild-caught Alaskan salmon, straight to your door. Moink farmers farm like our grandparents did. And as a result, Moink meat tastes like it should because the family farm does it better. The Moink difference is a difference you can taste and you can feel good knowing your helping family farms stay financially independent too.

You choose the meat delivered in every box, like rib eyes, to chicken breasts, to pork chops, to salmon fillets, and much more. Plus you can cancel any time. Moink is helping save rural America. I love it and you will too. Join the Moink movement today. Shark Tank host Kevin O'Leary called Moink's Bacon the best bacon he's ever tasted.

And ring doorbell founder Jamie Simanov, he jumped at the chance to invest in Moink. Plus, they guarantee that you'll say, oink oink, I'm just so happy I got Moinked, I know I do, and you will too. Keep American farming going by signing up at moinkbox.com slash legal AF right now. And listers of this show get free ground beef for a year. That's one year of the best ground beef you'll ever taste, but for only a limited time. Spelt M-O-I-N-K-Box.com. Slash legal AF. That's moinkbox.com. Slash legal AF. So don't be fooled by Chessbro trying to undercut what his client just did.

So he doesn't get doxed and attacked by the Trump supporters, by Donald Trump himself, try to get the guy out of harm's way. He's like, he's with the girl, you just go and tell the truth. And he always believed to jump high and won anyway. That is also a devastating admission, if true. And I assume it's true,

otherwise the lawyer wouldn't have said it on the show. So the whole time that Ken Chesbro was devising the fake electors scheme and Donald Trump was adopting it, he never believed that Joe Biden lost. He never believed that Donald Trump is client one. And so I want to hear about now the conversations involving Donald Trump that Ken Chesbro can report on in which he acknowledges that he lost the election because that's where that's going. And that, therefore, destroys any argument by Donald Trump that he didn't have the criminal intent or criminal mind

to commit the crime. That's what keeps prosecutors up at night proving criminal mind because you've got to prove it with external objective evidence. And so here you got a piece of it. If Ken Chesbro didn't believe that Donald Trump won, what is he going to say about Donald Trump's reasonable belief and subjective belief? We all know he's been a phony about it. The Donald Trump at the time said, I can't believe I lost that guy. And he said it on at least two other occasions, but ever since, including in recent rallies, Donald Trump gets up and says, look, she was rigged. I didn't lose fair and square and all of that.

So Ken Chesbro, really, really important on that issue and the destruction of the attorney client privilege. And lastly, related to the attorney client privilege, the plead deals, turning states evidence, turning witnesses for the prosecution by these Trump lawyers destroys once and for all any attempt by Donald Trump to use the reliance on advice of council defense, which in the district of Columbia can be used. If it's appropriate, the evidence supports it to undermine intent, criminal intent. You can say, I didn't have the criminal intent.

I couldn't have formed the criminal intent because I was relying on the invite, the reasonably relying on the advice of counsel. Of course, to get that, the elements of that are you have to give all the information to your lawyers. You can't hold anything back. They have to give you back their advice and you have to follow that advice in good faith, believing, believing the information you give them

is true and believing the advice is true as a result. And if you don't, you can't use it. It's very hard to use, naysay impossible to use the advice of council defense when all of your council have been indicted and two of them have already pled guilty to crimes related to their representation of you. So when you have Cindy Powell and Ken Chesbro who are now convicted criminals and you have the other indicted lawyers for Donald Trump that he relied on. John Eastman, Jenna Ellis, Rudy Giuliani, also indicted, or if they're not, if they're indicted

in Georgia for sure, and they're listed as unindicted co-conspirators in DC, very difficult to tell a jury that you relied on indicted criminal lawyers for your defense, very difficult. That's the other ramifications, Scott Grubb and the lawyer for Ken Chesbrodo doesn't wanna talk about it in that two minute or three minute clip sound bite, which I assume it'll help his career.

So that's what I wanna push back against, because you're gonna hear all sorts of things in the metaverse, right, in the world about it wasn't so bad. Ken Chesbro, you know, I've heard people even say, well, the information that Cindy Powell must be giving must not be that great because or I'm sorry, flip it. The information that Ken Chesbro must not be that great because he had a plea guilty to a felony. And it must have been really great from Powell. And so they gave her the benefit of a misdemeanor. I don't think that's how that worked.

I think that Ken Chesbro, the only opportunity, the only thing he could plead to was a felony. And if he gave them, they gave him the probation he wanted, but he had to take the felony deal. He also waited longer than the others, even if by a day. And I don't think it's a reflection of the quality of the information that he'll be giving. What deal he got, this is the best deal his lawyer was able to negotiate. And if after five years,

he is a good boy in colors within the lines lines because he's a first defender under Georgia's program He's going to be able to have that felony come off his record and he'll never have it Be disclosed it'll be expunge now. He's going to have to deal with his bar license and telling his bar Regulators that he's got now a felony conviction subject to the first time offender expungement. Same thing with Sydney Powell with her misdemeanor in Texas. But you know, he was likely to lose and go to jail for a long time in Georgia, and that's why he took the deal. So here, I'm trying to explain in this hot take, why if you only listen to Scott Grubman, you think it was not a big deal.

But Ken Chesborough just testified. But if when you unpack it and the many layers that Ken Chesborough didn't believe that Donald Trump won the election, his conversations with Donald Trump, the attorney client privilege documents that will now come flying out and being given to the prosecutors because of the crime fraud exception and so on. And the fact that he will testify about things that go beyond the actual felony count that he charged to count 15. Now you see why we've been so breathless about the back-to-back plea deals obtained by Fony Willis.

They're impacting her case on the other Coke and Spirit doors. There's still 16 remaining for now. The trial of Donald Trump, which is likely to happen much sooner now, and what happens in the federal election case with Jack Smith will keep reporting it on the Midas Touch Network on this YouTube channel, right, where you're watching. Don't change the dial. And on hot takes like this one that I do about every day, if not every hour, you can give me a thumbs up. Leave a comment. It helps with the ratings. Watch me on Wednesdays and Saturdays on legal a

after-leading podcast at the intersection of law, politics and justice right here on the Midas Touch Network. Free subscribe. Help them get to 2 million free subscribers because the larger they get the more your voice is heard until my next hot take until my next legal AF is Michael Popok reporting. Hey, Midas Mighty. Love this report. Continue the conversation by following us on Instagram. AtmidasTouch to keep up with the most important news of the day. What are you waiting for? Follow us now. What are you waiting for? Follow us now.