Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump Co-Defendant who FLIPPED ON HIM Gets Another FATAL Blow

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

Mark Meadows scrambles to get as far away from Georgia criminal court for his summer trial as possible. But a new appeals panel to decide whether he is entitled to a federal criminal trial instead of the pending state one may stop him in his tracks. Michael Popok of Legal AF reports on the 3 judges assigned to hear the case on 12/15 and why given their background Meadows is unlikely to win. Go to https://GETQUIP.COM/LEGALAF right now, and get 20% off any Electric Toothbrush, Mint & Gum Dispenser, Water Flosser. Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Michael Popok, legal AF, Mark Meadows trying to get out of the vice-like grip of the Georgia prosecutor and the criminal case in Georgia against him, where he's not going to get a plea deal. And he's going to trial, has been trying to get to federal court for many, many months now. And now it's coming to a head at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals sitting in Georgia. We just got the three judge panel that's been assigned randomly to the case.

And it's not great for Mark Meadows, but it's a great day for justice. Let me tell you what's going on. I'll tell you about the three judges that have been assigned to the case oral argument on the 15th of December and then a ruling a month or two after that. What's the issue that's up on appeal? Was Mark Meadows operating within the color of his federal office as a White House chief of staff? When, as the indictment alleges, he interfered with the Georgia election, not only on the phone when

he made the phone call and arranged the phone call with Donald Trump in to call the Secretary of State of Georgia, the most perfect phone call in which they call the Secretary of State of Georgia, the most perfect phone call in which they ask the Secretary of State to go find 11,758 votes, but Mark Meadows going to different places in Georgia, trying to convince state house members and election officials and members of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation to let him interfere and try to find votes for Donald Trump throughout absentee ballots, get involved with election fraud, all on the dirty hands of Mark Meadows. And the question is, all the things that's been alleged against them in the indictment,

are they within the outer boundaries of the color of his office, or are they just crimes for which he was not operating wearing that hat as a chief of staff? I mean, chief of staff has a job description. The problem is, Mark Meadows doesn't know what the job description is as he testified before a federal judge because he's trying to get the case out of state court and state prosecution and get the case out of state court and state prosecution and get the case tried

across the street in the northern district of Georgia and Lanta Division federal court. He doesn't lose the prosecutor. Fawni Willis comes along for the ride. All the evidence comes along for the ride. All the witnesses come along for the ride and the indictment comes along for the ride. All the mark Meadows would accomplish is that the case would be tried in front of a federal judge. In this case, Steven Jones, who is an Obama appointee, and he could file motion practice trying to use federal supremacy clause, constitutional arguments that may not be at his view properly considered by Judge Scott McAfee, who is a Republican young

judge. It's been appointed to the case on the state side. So he wants to get out of the state court system and get over to the federal court system. Everything else remains the same. As I said, indictment, witness, evidence, prosecutor, lawyers involved. It's just that he'd have Judge Jones instead of Judge McAfee to make his arguments in front of. And if that, if they don't prevail, he'd have the federal appellate route to take 11 circuit for stop on the train. And maybe the Supreme Court, if they decide to take

it. Now, that's where we are. What happened? What's the new news? Pope, I'll get to it on this hot take. The new news is we finally have after the briefs have already been filed, because judge Jones, the trial court judge, after a full hearing in which Mark Meadows decided to testify, even though a lot of that testimony could be used against him, it will be used against him as a waiver of his Fifth Amendment privilege. He testified about all of his functions and functionality and things that he did related to Donald Trump and Georgia. But the problem is he couldn't answer basic questions about what are the limits of your

job? What is your job description? And so the judge, after hearing that and oral argument by his lawyers concluded that he is not entitled to federal officer removal to take the case from state to federal court. Right, there's a provision in the removal statute. You cases filed in state court civil or criminally may under certain circumstances, limited circumstances, be brought over to federal court

if the person seeking the removal, we call it removal because you're removing it from state to federal court has the right to do it, has the grounds to do it. And yes, a federal officer doing his job or her job within the color of their scope of their authority who gets sued that case likely can go over to federal court. Donald Trump tried this. He didn't like the fact that the Stormy Daniels hushed many case, the business fraud case in New York was being tried in state court in front of Judge Mershon. So he tried to take it over the summer. at the Stormy Daniels hush money case, the business broadcast in New York was being tried in state court in front of Judge Mershaw.

So he tried to take it over the summer. You may remember by removal to federal court and ended up with Judge Hellerstein, a senior status judge in New York, that judge to the same analysis that Stephen Jones did. Donald Trump didn't testify, but his general counsel testified. And there the judge concluded having an affair and trying to cover it up is not within the scoping duties of your presidential authority as a federal officer. So no, you're going back to state court and that ended there. Donald Trump didn't even try to appeal. Now we have a similar thing.

Mark Meadows having taken the stand. Judge Steven Jones haven't ruled against him up on a pill, a pill full briefing. Full briefing means three sets of briefs before the 11th Circuit. One, the opening or initial brief by Mark Meadows, saying Judge Jones was wrong. I'm a federal officer within the course and scope of my duties. Everything in the indictment can be neatly fitted within my duties. And I get to try the case in federal court. Of course, the Fulton County DA's office filed their, their, the brief in the middle, which is the opposition

brief. And then there's a reply brief at the end by Mark Meadows, the movement for something, the, the person seeking the appeal gets two briefs and the other party gets one brief. And then you get oral argument, generally get oral argument. You don't have to, but you get oral argument. And they're holding the oral argument on December 15. Now, a random selection picks who the three judges are going to be. I know it doesn't seem like random selection. And when I describe some of the people in Bob, you might think that doesn't seem very random, but it was random selection.

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That's 20% off any electric toothbrush, mitten gum dispenser, or water flosser at getquip.com slash legal AF spelled G-E-T-Q-U-I I P dot com slash legal a F quip the good habits company. The three judges that have now been picked are chief judge William prior. Judge Robin Rosenbaum and judge Abadu. I'm going to tell you about each of the three of them. Why this is not a great draw for Mark Meadows. First of all, Judge William Pryor, although he was appointed by Bush, is not considered Maga or Trump lover. In fact, he and Judge Rosenbaum, who came out of Florida, she used to be in the same court division as Judge Alene Cannon handling the Mar-a-Lago case. Um, those two judges prior

in Rosenbaum were on a different appellate panels that a slap back judge cannon when she tried to interfere before indictment with the criminal prosecution of Donald Trump. There were two different appeals that came out of the 11 circuit. Donald Trump lost twice. One appellate panel randomly selected had Robin Rosenbaum on it, and one of them had William Pryor on it. So they are very well steeped on what happened on Jan 6th, and what happens with Donald Trump. And then the last judge is Judge Abadu, who's a Biden appointee.

She was a very not for us on the Midas Dutch network, but for the Republicans was a very controversial pick. First of all, she never was a judge before she became a pallet judge. And that's okay. We have judges on the US Supreme Court that were never judges before. Judge Justice Cagan, Alina Cagan was never a trial judge. She was a solicitor general. She argued cases in front of the Supreme Court, but she was never a lower level trial judge and either was Judge Abadu. Judge Abadu, whose families originally from Ghana, was a, did a lot of public interest work. She worked in an old law firm of mine, Skadenarpst, a great job there. And then she devoted her career to public, the public sector and public interest law. And she was one of the leaders and a deputy legal

director of the Southern Poverty Law Center. The Southern Poverty Law Center is one of those organizations, Democratic Progressive, deals with First Amendment rights that also monitors the conduct of people that are in the house and the Senate and identifies those that are racists. And they didn't like the fact that she worked at the Southern Poverty Law Center, which goes after extremists, files lawsuits against the KKK and the John Birch Society and Proud Boys and Oathkeepers and that type of thing. That was her background.

That's how she got on the 11th Circuit. So you've got prior, who's Bush, but not MAGA, you got Robin Rosenbaum, who's Obama appointed and came out of the Southern District, and you got Abadu, who's just barely got out of confirmation process, you know, Chuck Schumer, the Senate majority leader, had to use all sorts of things in his disposal to get her vote out and get her a point. She just got on the bench on the 11th circuit. That's when Mark Meadows and his lawyers, uh, Mr. Terwilliger is going to have to argue in front of on the 15th. Now that oral argument is going to be recorded and we'll be able to tune into it live, report

on it live about the results. Let me give you my prediction here as a lead analyst, one of the analysts anchors on legal AF on the Midas Touch Network. So let me give you my prediction here as a lead analyst, one of the analysts anchors on legal AF on the Midas Touch Network. Mark Meadows is going to lose the precedent that's already been established and the law, including that of the one related to Donald Trump and other cases that can be cited, are going to find that Mark Meadows was well outside, even the outer boundaries of his own duties as a White House chief of staff when he was helping a Donald Trump, not do his official duties as president, but as campaigner Donald Trump. I want to stay in office, Donald Trump, right? Presidential candidate, Donald Trump. That's who he was assisting at a given

moment during the indictment allegations, not president Trump as chief of staff and and and gatekeeper. And so once you make that distinction, then all the case law falls into place, you're outside the protection, you're outside of being a federal officer, you don't get federal officer removal entitlement to take the case and have your case tried in state instead of in federal instead of state court. And also because he wasn't he was not when he was indicted, the chief of staff. And that's an argument. I'm sure even though it wasn't fully briefed with Judge Jones, we'll come up with a full briefing before the 11th Circuit, which is who cares?

The guy was a former, uh, just like the former president. This was former chief of staff and the public policy considerations and constitutional considerations don't really apply when the guy no longer holds the job. He doesn't get the benefit of federal officer removal the argument goes because he wasn't a federal officer at the time the indictment came down. At the end of the day, how is he prejudiced? He's going to go through one of two criminal court systems. He's already in the state court system.

The indictment doesn't change, the witnesses don't change, the prosecutor doesn't change, just the courthouse and the appellate process. And that's what he wants. He wants to try to find a way to gum up the works, throw sand in the gears, get the case over to the Supremes, and have them make a decision on his favor. But they're not just worried about Mark Meadows or Donald Trump.

They're worried about the next Mark Meadows and the next Donald Trump. That's why we are a nation of laws and precedent. And so my prediction is he's going to lose at the 11th Circuit regardless of the panel, but certainly with this panel. And then he's done, right? That he's dead in the water unless the Supreme Court decides to take his case, which I doubt that they're going to take that case. And if they take that case that they're going to decide it in time, they're going to just

let him continue to be prosecuted in Georgia, which looks like it could be as early as a summer trial against Mark Meadows. I'll do another hot take about why Mark Meadows is in such serious trouble in the Georgia prosecution, regardless of the courthouse and a pellet system in another hot take. But for now, I'm reporting on this issue, new panel, two of which know the Trump world really, really well from prior briefing. And this is not a good panel selection for Mark Meadows or his lawyer. We'll continue to follow. We'll update you after we hear the oral argument on the 15th of December. Decision should come out, you know, within a month or six weeks after that,

because they're sort of on a fast track here, given how fast the Georgia prosecution is moving. And we'll follow it on legal a F that leading podcast at the intersection of law politics and justice one place on the Midas Touch Network help them get to 2 million by Jan one 2 million free subscribers right here. You're enjoying this content. Keep it going. Keep the network going. It's no outside investors.

You are the reason that we're on the air. Leave me a comment. Give me a thumbs up helps with the, helps keep my content coming to you. Like this one. So until my next hot take, until my next legal AF, Wednesdays and Saturdays, 8PM, Midas Dutch Network, this is Michael Popefuck reporting. Hey, Midas, Mighty.

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