Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump CORNERED by Manhattan DA’s BRILLIANT Chess Move

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

Karen Friedman Agnifilo and Ben Meiselas report on how the deposition of Donald Trump taken by the New York Attorney General Letitia James further demonstrates why Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s decision to wait before presenting financial fraud charges against Trump to a grand jury was a stroke of genius.  Support the MeidasTouch Network: https://patreon.com/meidastouch Add the MeidasTouch Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-meidastouch-podcast/id1510240831 Buy MeidasTouch Merch: https://store.meidastouch.com Follow MeidasTouch on Twitter: https://twitter.com/meidastouch Follow MeidasTouch on Facebook: https://facebook.com/meidastouch Follow MeidasTouch on Instagram: https://instagram.com/meidastouch Follow MeidasTouch on TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@meidastouch Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm Ben Myceles joined by Karen Freeman, Agnifalo from the legal AF podcast. And what we have to talk about today is now that we know that Donald Trump's deposition with New York attorney general, leticia James lasted about eight hours, you know, with a lunch break. So about seven hours of testimony, which means a lot was discussed there. I think this makes even more clear to me that Manhattan District Attorney, Alvin Bragg's move

of not yet filing the case or not yet even bringing before a grand jury, the case about Trump's financial fraudulent valuations, all the more smarter. And you and I had discussed this, you know, we were talking about it on the phone We're like let's do a hot take so we can share this with everybody and so Maybe if you could give your opinion how are these related and why is it that and now actually shows the chess moves that Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg was playing behind the scenes that frankly

that Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg was playing behind the scenes that frankly, pomerance and done the former special assistant deputies didn't really, I don't know, I think understand appreciate. I don't know. Maybe I'm being generous there. Yeah. So look, this is a move that is so brilliant. Frankly, I didn't see this one coming at all. This is about the best chess move Alvin Bragg could have made. And like, explain why. So backing up, if you remember, Alvin Bragg was handed three Trump organization matters by Sivance when he became the district attorney

now a year and a half ago. One was indicted, that was against the Trump org, and that resulted in a 17-count felony conviction against the Trump organization in Alan Weiselberg. And then there were two investigations that had not yet matured the point of turning into a case yet. One of them was the criminal companion case to the

New York Attorney General, Latisha James, civil case that had to do with the valuation of assets. And the easiest way you can understand that case is you say, oh, my apartment, it's 2,000 square feet, and it's worth $2 million. And I put that on paper for a bank because I want the bank to value it as much as possible, so I can take out money. I'll have a lot of equity in my $2 million apartment, and I can take a million dollars in a home equity loan because the more it's valued, the more money

you can take out of it. Or when I'm filing taxes, I can go to a tax evaluator to say, hey, you know what, I have an outdated bathroom and an outdated kitchen and it's not really 2,000 square feet, it's really 1,500 square feet because I wasn't counting, you're not supposed to count certain areas. And so they'll say, oh, you know what? Your apartment's really only worth a million dollars. And they use that number now to say, so you pay less taxes. And he would constantly do that to the extreme. He would even lie about the size of his real estate. And he would lie about the things that were provable.

So that's what that case is about. And then the third case is the case that had to do with Stormy Daniels and the election interference that he was just arrested on. So going to that middle case, the one involving the valuation of assets, that was a case that had matured to the point where two ADAs or assistant DAs thought it was ready to go in

the grand jury. And the reason that case had matured and not the Stormy Daniels case is don't forget the Southern District, the Feds, the DOJ under Bill Barr asked Sivants to hold off on that Stormy Daniels case so that they could pursue it. So Sivants didn't say I'm not bringing that case. He said, let's put that on hold and let's look at this other case. So that case had matured and it was handed to Alvin Bragg and Sivants looks to be clear didn't indict that case.

It had matured and was given to Alvin Bragg as these two ADA's thought it was ready to go in the grand jury. Alvin Bragg said, you know what? I'm not ready to go in the grand jury. I want more. I just think there needs to be more. This isn't ready. And I'm not ready. I just became DA, I don't know, a month ago, two months ago, and I'm not ready to be the first to indict a former president on this. I want more time. Well, as we all know, Carrie, Carrie Dunne and Mark Pomerance, who were the two senior A.D.A.'s working on the case resigned because they didn't want to stay longer and get more evidence for Alvin Bragg. And Mark Pomerantz ended up leaking his letter of resignation and then he wrote a book where he has now created a situation

where Jim Jordan wants him to testify before Congress about all the things he said in that book. So Alvin Bragg got a lot of heat for not bringing the case and was criticized widely for not bringing the case. And frankly, Mark Pomerant said a lot of really inappropriate things about Alvin Bragg and the office in his book and on his television show, media appearances. But Alvin kept saying, over and over again, I just said, I was pressing pause, I didn't say I'm not bringing it. And I just want I was pressing pause, I didn't say I'm not bringing it, and I just want to want more evidence. And everyone kept wondering, what is that more evidence?

What could he have wanted? And this is it, okay? This is it. This is it. Donald Trump didn't take the fifth, which he did when he first sat in this deposition for Letitia James. He took the fifth. Yesterday, he answered questions for seven plus hours on this very case.

And now that he answered questions, that can be used in his criminal trial. Why is this a brilliant chess move? It's a brilliant chess move because whenever there's a civil case and a criminal case, the civil case always gets pressed pause and the criminal case goes. So if Alvin Bragg had brought this case when Mark Pomerance and Kerry done wanted him to bring it, which was now over a year ago, this civil case would have never happened. It certainly wouldn't progress to where it is and depositions wouldn't be taken and we wouldn't have Donald Trump's answers to these questions.

But Alvin Bragg let that case mature and let it go to see if they could get these depositions, get this information, get testimony, frankly, that can be used in a criminal case. And now Alvin Bragg can bring that case when he wants, and if he wants, but he has more evidence now, he has Donald Trump's own words, hours and hours of his own words about what happened in that valuation of assets case. Not only that, it's brilliant. It's brilliant, and not only that,

but now Alvin Bragg can also wait to see how the trial plays out, right? The trial by the New York Attorney General set to take place October 2nd of 2023. It is not going to be laid. Justice Arthur Engoran said, come hell or high water. It is etched in stone. That is when trial will be going regardless of Donald Trump trying to derail it, but what would have happened, the procedure, and by the way, Engoran would have granted this if it happened, if the Manhattan District Attorney

brought a criminal complaint based on the same underlying facts then Donald Trump's lawyers in the New York Attorney General case, they would have filed what's called a motion to stay pending the criminal case based on the implication of Donald Trump's fifth amendment rights, given that there was a active criminal case that had been filed.

Donald Trump can't point to an active criminal case that was filed. And the way Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg built this up is, look, that's first focus on the first case, the Trump Organization crimes, got 17 felony convictions there within like nine hours of jury deliberations. The Stormy Daniels case, because it's on this narrow issue of falsification of business records in connection with the 2020 2016 election does not relate to this broader financial fraud case. So Donald Trump can't point to the stormy Daniels case as a basis to slow

down Manhattan district, the claim by New York Attorney General, a Tisha James Shore. I guess Donald Trump could try to invoke it, but that would not be granted by Justice Arthur and Goron. So Alvin Bragg to your point, you know, just kind of waited, saw what Donald Trump was going to do. Now the reason that Trump testified, though, is because in a civil case, what would happen is what's called an adverse inference if you invoke your Fifth Amendment right, again, self-incrimination in a civil case. So Donald Trump invoked his fifth amendment in the special proceeding that predated the lawsuit that was filed by New York attorney general attisha james and had Donald Trump just basically remained and said look I previously testified

I'm invoking the fifth. What New York attorney general attisha james would have said when that trial came around October 2nd of 2023 is look, Donald Trump invoked the fifth. And here because this is a civil case, unlike a criminal case, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you can now infer adversely against Donald Trump that because he's invoking the fifth on all of these questions about his statement of financial conditions, that if he did answer these questions, that he would be admitting to the liability we are trying to prove, you can do that in a civil case, ask jurors to draw adverse inferences for someone who invokes the fifth or an entity that invokes the fifth.

You can't do that in a criminal case. So Donald Trump said, oh crap, I'm forced to go to trial October 2nd where this New York AG is seeking at least $250 million, likely billions of dollars. And if she prevails in this case, it would effectively shut down the Trump organization from doing business. So because Donald Trump, what's the number one thing he cares about money, he said, I'm going to have to testify here. And so he gave this testimony, you know, we don't know how many questions he answered, but he certainly was there for seven hours answering questions because he wanted to avoid the adverse inference. And now Alvin Bragg says,

yep, I got all this evidence that I would never have received before because Donald Trump would have invoked the fifth amendment and stayed or stopped the civil case. That's why if you play the chess moves out like that, what Pomeran's and Dunne wanted was very short-sighted and would have derailed the a g's case and the Manhattan d a's office would never have gotten this critical evidence so it would have been a two-for-horrible outcome by what pomeran's and done wanted last words Karen makes me very proud my old office you know the Manhattan d a's office has always been one of the best

state and local prosecutors offices in the country. And it remains so with with DA Bragg. Very proud. It's great. And like, see how like, see where we go from here. See where we go from here? I'm Ben Myself. It's joined by Karen Friedman, Agnifala. We both are hosts with our co host, Michael Popak, on Legal AF. Make sure you subscribe wherever you get your audio podcast to Legal AF and also subscribe right here on our YouTube channel. Help us get to 1.5 million subscribers by this summer.

Until next time, I'm Ben Mycelas. Have a great day.