Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump FACES MORE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS after ARRAIGNMENT

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

The top-rated legal and political podcast Legal AF is back for another hard-hitting look at the most consequential developments at the intersection of law and politics. On this midweek’s edition, Michael Popok and Karen Friedman Agnifilo, discuss: 1. What happens next in the federal prosecution of Donald Trump and Walt Nauta arising out of the Mar a Lago document scandal as other prosecutors move to indict Trump at the state and federal level for yet other crimes; 2. Special Counsel Jack Smith’s main January 6th/insurrection/interference with peaceful transfer grand jury in DC hearing testimony from 2 Nevada Republican party leaders who are close to Trump and are alleged to have conspired with him to create, forge and submit fake electors certificates; and 3. On the same day as Trump’s arraignment, a NY federal judge giving him more bad news that E Jean Carroll’s newest defamation case seeking $10 million in punitive damages for Trump’s recent defamatory statements at CNN’s townhall against Ms. Carroll is moving forward, and so much more. DEALS FROM OUR SPONSORS! MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://TryMiracle.com/LEGALAF and use the code LEGLAF to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF! LOMI: Head to https://lomi.com/legalaf and use code LEGALAF FUM: Head to https://TryFum.com/legalaf and use code LEGALAF to save 10% off when you get the journey pack today! STARTMAIL: Go to https://StartMail.com/Legalaf and join tens of thousands of people who trust StartMail for their email security needs SUPPORT THE SHOW: Shop LEGAL AF Merch at: https://store.meidastouch.com Join us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/meidastouch Remember to subscribe to ALL the Meidas Media Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://pod.link/1510240831 Legal AF: https://pod.link/1580828595 The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://pod.link/1595408601 The Influence Continuum: https://pod.link/1603773245 Kremlin File: https://pod.link/1575837599 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://pod.link/1530639447 The Weekend Show: https://pod.link/1612691018 The Tony Michaels Podcast: https://pod.link/1561049560 American Psyop: https://pod.link/1652143101 Burn the Boats: https://pod.link/1485464343 Majority 54: https://pod.link/1309354521 Political Beatdown: https://pod.link/1669634407 Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://pod.link/1676844320 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Donald Trump, the one and only wannabe dictator, faces the man, the myth, the legend, Jack Smith, in a Miami federal courthouse this week for his arrest, processing, booking, and a rainman. Where in a few good men, to me more fashion, he pled absolutely strenuously pleading, not guilty. As his lackey and professional bootlicker and bodyman, Walt Nauda, stayed at his side for his own attempted arrangement. What happened at the arrangement? And what are the conditions of release? Now that he's been arrested, why did the federal magistrate on duty push the Department

of Justice to add no witness contact to the restrictions on Trump? Why wasn't Nauda arraigned? And why does he get to continue to work for and talk to Trump every day going forward? And what happens next in terms of the trial judge, Eileen Cannon, the motion practice, defenses raised, and eventual speedy trial setting? And while Jack Smith stared a hole into Trump's head in the courtroom, the rest of his team of Mary prosecutors continue to take compel testimony at the Jan 6 election interference grand jury in Washington.

First from Pence, moving on to Bannon, and now from two fake electors from Nevada as the wheels of justice rolled towards at least a second Trump federal indictment. And finally, on the same day as Trump's arraignment and phony rallies, Judge Kaplan of the Southern District presiding over the E. Jean Carol New Defamation case against Trump issued a very real order allowing the new case based on Trump's CNN defamation of her to go forward. While the US got another month or so to get its act together and decide whether it's going to intervene on behalf of Trump and take him out of the case in a certain governmental immunity or they're not. All this and so much more on the midweek edition of legal AF only on the Midas Touch Network with your co-anchors, Michael Popok and Karen Friedman at Nifalo in the same city, in the

same time zone, we got a lot to talk about starting with the twice indicted, but only once selected, Donald Trump. Karen, how you doing? I'm great. How are you doing? I'm doing really great. I want to get your visceral. Before we get into the nitty-gritty of the tick-tock of what happened during the

arraignment and after and the orders that have been posted, which we're going to do, because that's why people come to the show. What was your visceral reaction? Both as a prosecutor, former prosecutor, and as a human being to what happened inside the courtroom, outside the courtroom, after the courtroom, and all of that, I want to get it kind of get your initial, your initial gut instincts. Yeah, so I was struck by how differently he's being treated than everybody else, but not in the way that he complains

and not in the way he says. So anybody else who is charged with the types of charges that he is facing, right, possessing national defense information, carelessly waving it around to people showing it off, carelessly leaving it wherever he wants in unsecure locations at Mar-a-Lago on the stage where thousands of people came in and out in the bathroom, you know, that was also around areas that people could come in and out. And, you know, just that box is it fallen on the floor, that top secret material had fallen out. I mean, just that's just, that could be our nuclear codes right there for all we know like that is disgraceful how he kept those those documents and frankly in Edbedminster in New Jersey, you know that he was bragging about them waving it around and showing people

documents that were top secret and saying I know I shouldn't be this, right? So anybody else who did that and then obstructed the Department of Justice and the FBI's attempt to get those documents back, they asked over and over again for them when they subpoenaed them. Donald Trump had Walt Nott to move the boxes out and move them back and move them around so they wouldn't be found. And then he tells his lawyer, Evan Corcoran, that's also in the indictment. He tells his lawyer, Evan Corcoran, to go through just some of the boxes because he'd already moved some of them out, see what's in there.

And if there's anything bad in there, he makes a plucking motion with his hand and says, just pluck them out, get rid of them. Be my co-conspirator with the attorney. P.S. that's why we know about all of this because that's exactly why it pierced the attorney client privilege into the crime fraud exception because it is a crime to hide, to take out things, evidence that you're not supposed to have, and top secret information. That's basically, that's basically, you know, that's the crime right there, right? That's the evidence of the crime, those documents. And to try to hide that from law enforcement, that's outrageous, absolutely outrageous.

Anyone else who did that, and then on top of that, lied or caused to be lied to the FBI. Anybody else not only would be held in on bail, they'd have their passport taken from them, they'd have travel restrictions, and they'd be in jail. Do you remember Popok, that young kid, and I think it was Virginia, his last name is Tashera.

He was the guy who worked in, he worked in the government and had access to some national security documents. I was a national guard intelligence officer. Exactly. So what was he doing? He got that information, that top secret information, and in gaming platform, he wanted to brag

and show off to his friends. Sound familiar? That's what Donald Trump was doing. Guess where he is right now. Guess where defendant Tashara is right now. He is incarcerated. He is not out free to go and do whatever he wants, but because why?

Because that is so dangerous and so terrible. And that's how any person who did this would be treated. You know, we're defense attorneys now. We represent people. I mean, I can't imagine if I had a client who wasn't named Donald Trump, who did this. I would be very nervous. I'd be preparing them to have to go in.

I would have to be putting together a bail package, hoping to convince the court to allow this client, my client out on a bail package. There is no way this would have been, the word everyone's using is perfunctory. There's nothing perfunctory about a criminal arraignment, especially in charge of this series. So to call it perfunctory and just, you know,

kind of ministerial. Really just shows how Donald Trump is being treated differently than absolutely everyone else. That that is what struck me here. So let me ask the, so let me ask the question. Um, because we're going to report on it. Now just a good man was the duty magistrate for the day he even pushed the Department of Justice to add special conditions that even they weren't asking for. So let's assume you're absolutely right. The government was prepared to let Donald Trump release on his own reconnaissance, not

put up a bond, not put up a bail, not surrender his passport, certainly not pretrial detention given the way the federal rule works. I wasn't surprised by that, but I was surprised by the lack of requests by the government for special conditions on his walking out the front door, having been arrested. Why do you think, then, as a former prosecutor, why do you think, Jack Smith, the lead prosecutor, David Harbock, Jay Brad, Julie Edelstein, all for the government? This is obviously not a mistake. They weren't caught flat-foot footed this was a decision that

they made why do you think they did well i don't want you to gloss over what you just said about you know given the pre-trial detention laws you you're not surprised by this because given them i am surprised by it right the pre-trial the the bill reform act you know and and at basically essentially says that

you take into consideration risk of flight and risk of dangerousness. Now, I agree there probably is no risk of flight here, right? He's pretty easy to find. But dangerousness, I mean, first of all, he's got one other open indictment. He's got this open indictment now. He's got two more. And what dangerousness is there? The guy will bully people. He will commit further crimes. He will potentially call for violence and protests. I just think he is dangerous.

And I want, but to answer your question, why didn't they do it? it they can't they can't do it because he's running for president and He has a right to write, you know, it would just be it would be an absolute an absolute I don't even know the word for it. It's just there's no way you could justify somebody he he has a right to run for president. He is likely the frontrunner and there is just no way you could put any restrictions on his right to run for office. And by incarcerating him, it would interfere with his right to run for office and it would be seen obviously as interfering would actually be interfering with an election. And so frankly, the reason the Department of Justice didn't do it is because they can't. They can't. And I'm sure that's why Donald Trump wanted to run for office

and said he was running for office because he knows that it insulates him. It totally insulates him. I mean, if they don't get this case to trial before the general election, then they can't try it. And while he's president, you can't try it if he's president, or if another Republican wins, they might pardon him, or they could also just, if he wins and he becomes president, he can just pull the case. He can tell his attorney general, pull the case.

There's an open question about whether he can pardon himself, but it's either this case, obviously if a Democrat wins, hopefully, then the case can proceed and it can go forward. But it would have to be put on pause during the time that's considered the general election. Now, when does the general election start? And most people would say probably right after the primary and that if he becomes the nominee, that's the election time, right? That's when he's going to be running. And so this has to go quickly. And so, you know, Latisha James, who's the attorney general in the state of New York. Her civil trial was supposed to go in October, and she made a statement yesterday that, likely, her case and Alvin Bragg's case, and even Fanny Willis' case is going to now

have to be put on hold for this case, because this case has to go quickly. The only thing that I could see making pushing this case out other than Donald Trump winning the judge lotto by getting Eileen Cannon assigned to this case, because I think she might try to help him push this out and not actually get a quick trial knowing that knowing the things I just said, right, that there's a chance you would have no trial, would be if there are other charges brought by Jack Smith and the Jan 6 election interference case.

So I'm hoping that that Jack Smith does that quickly, and but I think one of those two cases will go first before Alvin Bragg's case or if Honey Willis goes in Dites in August, but that's the unfortunate thing that everybody's waited so long is you know all of these cases should have been brought years go frankly and everybody waited too long and so now here we are and I think there's a real chance that if we don't go very, someone doesn't go very quickly, it won't happen at all. Well, Jackson has gone very quickly.

He's only, you know, the events that happened with Donald Trump culminated in a search warrant, and it was less than a year ago, it was August. He's been in office for seven months, and he's brought the indictment in a courtroom. So I don't think anybody can fault. No, I agree that Jackson was gone quickly for sure. Yeah, but you know, did the Department of Justice go quickly?

Yeah, and you're old off and you're old office went a little slow and bringing story down years from seven years ago. By the way, everyone's gone slow. Yeah, but not everybody. I don't think Jack Smith has. And I don't think Fawdy has either. She had a seven month special purpose grand jury that led to her March.

She's now continuing to develop her case and she's getting continued cooperation and sounds like she's going to go in for a very sweeping indictment at the end of August. Whether all these things line up or the federal government, federal prosecution can bigfoot all the cases and go first because of speedy trial concerns,

which is generally 70 days, which of course is going to be waived because nobody's going to be ready in 70 days. I mean, look, if you look at the pretrial detention and the Department of Justice Manual, I wasn't surprised by personal recognizance release. I wasn't surprised by not having him be detained in a federal detention center while he's a candidate for the highest office of the land. You know, my thoughts on that, I'll never win, but I think, you know, putting him away given the crimes that have been alleged and even his past recidivism, he's not convicted

yet of any of these things. And I think Goodman was right on that. I think the government should have been prepared to ask for some special conditions. And Goodman, as the magistrate judge, would have granted them, he even pushed the reporting from the room is that Goodman pushed the government. Like, don't you want anything? I mean, what about witness discussions? And so they finally came up really at, at magistrate Goodman's urging to have a special condition, which will end up putting up on the screen, a special condition of the bond release, of the terms of the release, which says that Trump can't have

contact with a list of witnesses that will be identified by the government, by the government's lawyers, including Walt Nauta standing right next to him while he was attempted to be arraigned. But that was unsuccessful. We'll tell you why in a minute. But that is almost impossible to enforce for the government. And they know it because, well, now to, continues to be the body man, valet, butler, whatever you want to call it for Donald Trump, even as they left the courthouse to go to this Cuban restaurant that I know well on coyote show in Miami, Versailles. You know, like I was standing right next to him, leading him in.

And they're gonna be talking all day. There is nobody with better physical proximity within an inch of Donald Trump than the body man Walt Nauta. And it just sets up a really odd bedfellows where Walt Nauta gets to continue to have his job, but but, but, but,

but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, representing Donald Trump now in two places, one in the 34 count criminal indictment that the Karen Earle, the office brought against him on the stormy Daniels affair and cover up is now handling the case. Lee trial lawyer for him down in Florida with a local counsel, you know, flavor of the week.

Right now, it's Chris Keiss. It could be somebody else, but he made a statement in court, which nobody has really picked up on, but I'm going to report it here Which is he said that Evan Corcoran would be included in the list of people that Donald Trump can't talk to because he's he would be a witness and Blanche argued to the magistrate that Corcoran is still a lawyer for Donald Trump. I mean all the reporting that we understand is that after After Evan Corarkrin testified to the grand jury, turned over as 50 pages of notes, his audio tape, and will ultimately be if not the lead witness against Donald Trump at trial in person when he gets brought in the door and the government says, our next witness is Evan Quarkrin, Evan Quarkrin.

And please take the stand. The fact that he's still being represented in a courtroom by an officer of the court Todd Blanche as being still the lawyer for Donald Trump, we got to get to the bottom of that. And I think the government is going to, if that's true, I think the government will try to move to disqualify him from continuing to be a witness, a lawyer, because he's going to be a lead witness against his own client. What I suspect is the reason he said that is because they're going to relitigate barrel

Howell's ruling that the attorney client privilege has been pierced, and it's a crime fraud exception. And this is not the only factor, but one factor factor they're gonna say he's still he's still a lawyer there's you know there's still like you know that he didn't never sever ties with him kind of thing you know it's again it's just one more example they'll try to use to try to revert it. Well I don't know how yeah I don't know how they did. Yeah they can try that but they got a ruling from the grand jury judge that supervises all things grand jury and they either appealed it and failed or they didn't appeal it. And I think they waved any argument, continued argument

post indictment. But you know, you're right, they're going to try, listen, we know they're going to, they're going to try everything they can to try to delay this to move against the indictment. But I want to give some people, I don't want this to be doom and gloom because I don't have a doom and gloom from yesterday. I'm actually quite uplifted about our Justice Department. We can nitpick about, you know, that could have had one more condition of his release and all of that. Yes, however, he is now in the federal process.

It will move with great speed compared to the other places where he's being has been indicted or could be indicted. And, you know, we, the, we're gonna jump from that bridge when we get to it related to Eileen Cannon because the issue of whether she's gonna be, recuse herself or be disqualified, that can was kicked down the road for another day because she did not handle,

she, yeah, she entered some orders on the docket related to some ministerial things, but she, there hasn't been an appearance in front of her yet. And right before that, you're either going to see the government move to disqualify her or to have her removed or she's going to remove herself. But I don't think the government's going to do what they did. They've learned their lesson, I would believe, from what happened when Trump sued the government

and tried to stop the criminal investigation and then after Mar-a-Lago's search warrant was executed and got into her courtroom because both of her orders, they waited to see what she was going to do there. And as she got increasingly, it's more stupid in her decision-making, then they took her up on appeal twice to the 11th Circuit in one both times. I don't think they're going to give her the benefit of the doubt. I think they're going to move relatively quickly.

What do you think about that? I don't think they're going to move to recuse her until she does something. Because this is already being criticized by Donald Trump as being a biased prosecution. And I think you have to make a political calculation, not just a legal one. And I think it could be, I think there's a chance that Jack Smith will just say, you know

what, I'm not going to move to recuse her. Like I think that I just don't think until she shows bias in this case, I don't think they will move to recuse her just because of the prior matter. I think they're going to wait and see. That's just my feeling, and I certainly don't think she's going to recuse herself. I mean, why would she? Why would she ever, you know, it would be like almost like an admission that she's biased and not competent?

I think there's no way she will recuse herself. There's going to be an issue about whether where this case is done, right? Because she sits in Fort Pierce, I believe, Florida, and Ken, that small courtroom handle security will this have to be done in Miami. If so, will she want to travel to Miami? I mean, that's the kind of out if she wants to recuse herself. Maybe she'll do. But I don't think she's ever travel to Miami? I mean, that's the kind of out if she wants to recuse her. Some maybe she'll do, but I don't think she's ever going to say, oh, yes, I'm admitted, I'm incompetent or I'm biased. But I just want to say one thing about what you said about

the statements, the crime fraud exception. Barrel Howell ruled that the attorney client privilege was pierced for the crime fraud exception in the context of the, uh, of the grand jury essentially, right? And I agree with you completely that, that because that was not appealed and because that was, um by that, you know, in that particular case, there won't be any problem with the grand jury. In other words, you know, that's settled, that's done. But that ruling doesn't necessarily carry over to the trial, right? There's going to be a separate ruling, it's not like law of the case. That was just with respect to that piece of the investigation. Now there's an indictment

and then there's going to be a trial. And so I think Donald Trump is going to relitigate that issue as to whether that evidence comes in at trial. And that's what makes me nervous about Eileen Cannon. I think she, yeah, listen, so why don't we do this because this is really interesting and you and I see eye to eye and almost everything. This one a little bit different. I've got a different view about Eileen Cannon and what's going to happen at the 11th circuit ultimately with a department of justice that may or may not be that patient about her having already done the Cannon 1 and seen the result there.

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legal a f at checkout. Food waste is gross. Let lomi save you a cold trip out to the garbage can. And now back to the video. Well, we're back. So look, I think you're right. They're going to try this tact of using the attorney client privilege decision by Barrel Howell and Jeb Bosberg, the chief judges of the DC Circuit Court that supervised the grand jury that took this testimony. And but he waved, didn't he either appealed,

and it was it was shot down Trump Trump or he waved as a bill. And the Supreme Court didn't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. I think the 11th Circuit and Chief Judge prior, if he gets this case again, will say, I can and I don't know what you're doing again. This was already litigated, this issue. And you don't get to do it all over again, just because you're a new judge now in a trial setting post indictment. If the evidence was used appropriately

at the grand jury process level, and it led to the ultimate indictment, and then we're sort of beyond that, let's move on and talk about, whatever grand jury problems may have existed once they get the transcript and everything is released. But we'll see, look, we don't have a completely perfect crystal ball at all,

even with our own years of experience in a courtroom just like this one. I just don't think that the government prosecutors are gonna sit idly by and let her F this up again. And as to Canon, I don't know, she got slapped pretty hard by the 11th circuit, not once by twice and in scathing language that if anybody wants to go back and reread it, you'll see, I mean, I've seen a lot of a pellet courts excoriate trial trial judge is not quite at this level about how wrong

she was fundamentally about all things criminal procedure and the role of a trial court. And that was two Trump judges. Yeah, those were judges were Trump appointees. Right. And prior is a Republican anyway. So it was really like three for three. There were two separate panels, one of them had a couple more democratic appointments on it.

So that's where we are on that. A couple of things that I picked up from the courtroom that were interesting and then we could put up on the board here for those that watch, our audience that watch us, is that we've talked at length about the fact that he was under arrest. For those people in your life who said, he wasn't arrested, there were no handcuffs, he's arrested.

The docket, actually, the electronic docket for the case says in more than one place, Donald Trump arrested. So that's how, that's how it happens. You turn yourself in, you self-surrender. But he was in custody, processed, booked, no handcuffs. He had a secret service detail next to him in the federal marshals and probation. But he was given the same questionnaires and the same information. He was a defendant, a criminal defendant in every way, shape and form came into the courtroom a few minutes before the magistrate judge who came in a few minutes late, just a little bit of a power flex by the federal magistrate because he gets to sit at the top shelf of the bench wearing the black robe with the American flag, the real American flags behind him, not a phony set at Betbenster or Mar-a-Lago. And as the duty judge that day, that short straw went to

Judge Goodman, who joked when he tried to do the arrangement of Walt Nauta, but couldn't, because Walt Nauta's Marilyn lawyer didn't have time or couldn't find a local Southern District of Florida lawyer to be his local counsel. Therefore, the arrangement of Walt Nowt was postponed until the 27th of June to which Goodman joked, but it won't be me. And then laughed and got off the bench because that was really his role. I mean, he was the guy in the courtroom that day for, you know, who's coming in? Oh, yeah, Donald Trump defended. Okay, bring him in. In terms of the back and forth between the lawyers, the lawyers who identified themselves as the lead counsel for the government or David Harbock, J. Bratt, who's the chief counterintelligence attorney and also sort of a witness in

this case, because he met with Evan Corcoran in June right before the execution of the search warrant and was lied to by Evan Corcoran and Christina Bob about the due diligence search that they said that they did locating documents before they had to execute the search warrant. And Julie Edelstein, that seems to be the trial team. Jack Smith, of course, sat in the room glaring, Donald Trump, who was at his hands folded and and and hunched back and not very happy to be there. And then after that, you start getting orders flying out just like any other guard variety criminal defendant in federal court. So the two orders that have already been issued by the magistrate judge, One of them has to do with the conditions of bond, the standard conditions of bond.

And something that hasn't really been reported, it's not just the special condition on the last page that was typed in that says that Donald Trump can't have contact with witnesses identified by the federal government, the prosecutors and accept about things not related to the case and only then through, if it's about the case, only through his counsel. But earlier under the regular conditions, he has a restriction on leaving the Southern District of Florida. That that was not xed out.

He may not travel outside the Southern District of Florida, which is Palm Beach, a Broward in Dade County and Monroe County without permission of the court, a less approval by the court. So every time now he goes on a rally or he leaves the state or goes to New Jersey, like this one he just did, he has to like get permission. No, that has to be, that has to be a typo. There's no way that's actually sure. It's not, it's not crossed out. We have an Austrian. Did you look at it? You know what? I didn't see it, but they would have reported that as a condition. There's no way that's an actual condition that had to be a mistake. Don't you think? No, because the bond, I mean, the bond order was posted. And it doesn't

say, and it doesn't say it doesn't apply unless you skip from one to, unless you skip from one to five. He didn't number the special condition number two. He numbered the bond condition related to travel as number two. By the way, that's, if that's true, everybody has missed that, but you, that's fascinating. Well, it's posted. I mean, I haven't seen anybody say it didn't happen. That's big news, right? Because he's traveling all over the place. Well, I will find out. I mean, you know, maybe maybe we'll see an amended bond order. You know, I'm so sanguine about these things like, uh, but we are reporting

what, what is posted on, on, on the docket. So we have that. And then as to the, uh, then in the last page of the bond, you have Donald Trump signature as a criminal defendant with his little Sharpie pen and his little size McGrath signature there, a little serial killer signature there. And as lawyers listed, as lawyers listed as Todd Blanche and Chris Keiss. Chris Keiss has already been warned along with all the other local counsel that local counsel can't just be local counsel.

They have to be prepared at any given moment to argue the case and argue a motion or have their co-councils pro-hoc VJ admission status revoked. So, you know, Eileen can and sign that order. So, look, that's where we're at. We've got a minute order that was also posted by Judge Goodman that listed, you know, all the things we thought. The government has an obligation under a body of case law called Brady to provide Brady

material to the other side. The government said that they would provide the Brady material. The government said that they would provide the fact witness list. That's when Blanche raised the issue of, what about Corcoran? Corcoran still is counsel, which I've never seen anywhere else. The Corcoran is still his counsel. And that's gonna have to be an issue now that the prosecutors are back in their offices in DC.

They're gonna have to say, what was that? And they're gonna have to think about what motion practice they're gonna have to do. One other thing they're gonna have to talk to, a witness list is think about it. They have to, the judge says, you know, okay, you have to give us a list of people he can have contact with.

Give us your witness list. That means everyone's going to know who the witnesses are. What if some of them are, are protect, like, you know, they're going to have to get protective orders for some of them. If they're unknown, if there's people who are cooperating, I mean, normally you wouldn't give your witness list over this early. So that's one tricky, tricky part of this. I just wonderful see some protective orders request happening so that they don't have to reveal the identities of some of the witnesses because no contact with witnesses, that's not really the issue, right? He doesn't contact people. What he does is he bullies them by doxing them in the, you know, in the world, right? He, like, like, the mother daughter duo of the election workers, look what he did to them, he didn't contact them, he just ruined their life, right? So that's gonna be an interesting question

of how Jack Smith and his team navigates that part, because if they reveal the witness list, Donald Trump will be like, oh, I have no problem not contacting these people, but then he'll publicly shame them till the end of time and try to intimidate them not to testify. I think you're right. I think I think that'll go hand in glove with the request by the government to protect these people based on just as we've seen the state prosecutors stand up the at D.I. stand up and list the parade of horribles of Donald Trump in action including on his way out of the courtroom just this last time, like he did in the last agreement, bashing

the prosecutor, the judge, the judge's family, the jury process, you know, and all of that. Yeah, I think you're right. He's going to have to do that. But look, that's not the only thing that was going on that day. We have two other stories that we want to quickly talk about today. Was there an adjourned date on that date, by the way? No, we have to wait. We have to wait for the transcripts to get. We have to wait for that. But at the same time, you know, just showing you that that that Jack Smith can walk and chew gum at the same time, he's got other grand juries that are in process.

And another group of his prosecutors were continuing to develop testimony and compel testimony before grand juries in the district of Columbia related to the heart of the matter, which is the election interference and the Jan 6th insurrection and Donald Trump's role in all of that in stopping the peaceful transfer of power and the attack on the cradle of our democracy in Washington. And who was now brought in? Well, come on down a couple of fake

electors senior officials for the Nevada GOP Nevada Republican Party Michael McDonald if you're a music fan not that Michael McDonald a real trumper and we'll talk about what his involvement is that we know from the Jan 6th Committee still dividends there, GOP chairman in Nevada, and his vice chairman, Jim, and I'm gonna butcher his last name and all the Nevada people are gonna tell me how to do it. But it looks to me like dig graph-furned, dig graph-furned. And those two gentlemen had to come down and testify to the grand jury.

Just yesterday, the same grand jury were Mike Pence testified. Chris Krebs, or things related to Chris Krebs, went before, and Bannon's been subpoenaed. Now, let's talk about Michael McDonald for a minute and where we think we're going with that. So in that particular case, there is evidence developed by the Gen 6 committee

that that McDonald was supremely close with Donald Trump. In fact, the decision to interfere with the election was at least a month before the election. Let me repeat that. Before there was even an election, Donald Trump and his henchmen were ready to attack the legitimacy of the election and try to throw and steal the election in favor of Donald Trump. And he and he enlisted people in that scheme, that conspiracy, like the Republican leaders in these states that were favorable to him. So there is a documented phone call on the 14th of December, right? So after the election, but before certification, we would listen to this group of people, Karen, Trump, Eric Trump. Oh, no, I'm sorry,

I got, let me read my notes again. Trump, Don Jr. Meadows, Giuliani, and Michael McDonald. And the conversation was, we need to have these other alternate electors. And let's get that all together on a phone call that was recorded and has been documented by the Janskix Committee. The cell phone records have been documented by the Jans X committee. The cell phone records have been grabbed by Michael McDonald who gave the Jans X committee 500 versions of the fifth amendment when he was asked to testify there. But that is a documented fact. Trump, Eric Don Jr. Meadows, Giuliani, I'm sure now we know Meadows is cooperating with

the government. We'll testify to that. And let's come up with fake electors. And then from there, they then decided to try to co-opt and get the secretary of state of Nevada, Barbara Sagavsky to join in their plot to overthrow the government, go over through the country. She wouldn't do it. And she ultimately, even though she was Republican, and she ultimately certified the election in favor of Joe Biden, and you put that in his column for the electoral tally. But that group went up to Carson City in Nevada and signed these fake electors certificates. And just like we saw in Michigan,

and just like we saw in Georgia, tried to submit them through the National Archive to gum up the works. So that guy and the other chair of ICE chairman of the Republican Party of Nevada currently, they haven't even been removed from their positions because Maga thinks they're fine. And so, but they're now testifying before the grand jury. Now, whether the interesting question is I haven't seen the reporting. If they haven't been given an immunity, I would assume they're going to take the Fifth Amendment and less there's been an immunity deal. Have you seen anything about an immunity deal for those two? I have not. I have not. It'll be interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So either they're going to get compelled testimony or they're going to pop out to

Jeb Bozberg who's the chief judge for all things grand jury at present. And you know, he'll do the same thing that I'm sure that Barrel Howell did when she had the job, which was, well, if you want his testimony, you can have to give him immunity. So we'll see. And we'll see what the reporting is on that. But just shows you that the indictment of Donald Trump in Miami for Mar-a-Lago is a comma in the sentence, not a period for Jack Smith.

He is not done. By the time the primary season rolls around, it's going to be three indictments, four indictments. Maybe the trials aren't set, right? Because the feds will take, but he'll have at least two federal indictments. He'll have faunee willises indictment. He already has Alvin Bragg's indictment. He'll be a four-time indict died. So in order to avoid going to jail, he'll have to run the table and either get his indictments dismissed, not happening, or win four trials back to back to back to back. Let me tell people how almost impossible that is for Donald Trump, okay, to do. I know we're down on a certain, you know, procedural events that happen, but the chances of Donald Trump winning

winning and hanging for juries is almost, you know, getting struck by lightning, lightning four times. So we're gonna have to follow that. But before we do and before we get to E. Jean Carroll and some great developments for justice and terrible developments almost on the same day as his arrangement for Donald Trump, we're going to take another word from our sponsor. This is Michael Popok, Legal AF. Call Turkey may be great on sandwiches, but there's a better way to break your bad habits. We're not talking about some weird mind-voodoo from your wacky neighbor or some sketchy message board. We're talking about our sponsor fume, and they look at the problem in a different way. Not everything in a bad habit is wrong.

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So this is a great split screen. Donald Trump leaves the courthouse with some pre-arranged BS where he goes out of his way, and I know Miami, so I know how the map works. He, the route from the courthouse to the airport is almost direct. Instead, he looped around to go out of his way to the other end of the same road

that the airport is on, eighth street, to go to Versailles, which is sort of ground zero for the Cuban expatriate community, to celebrate his birthday early, apparently his birthday is today. And all prearranged and geeked up by his handlers to make sure he walked in to look, this is a diaspora Cuban-American, primarily Cuban-American population, but not just Cuban-American and not just Cuban population, but people that come from countries like Venezuela and Cuba and Chile and and other places where for the last five years at least in a in a county that was won overwhelmingly twice by Obama since then since Hillary forward. The the Republicans have done a masterful job, evil genius, tip of the hat to drilling down on these people

primarily through Latin radio and television to associate Democrats and the Democratic Party with communists, socialists, and Marxists. And I can't think of a bigger trigger word than in that community, in that community, that communists, they're all anti-communists. And the Republican Party, even before Trump, and certainly with Trump, have pinned the tail on our donkey to argue that we are the party of communists. And he, Trump, is anti-communist. And so they're anti-communist. So here we go, Donald Trump is our savior. That's the math. That is the transit

of property equation that that gets you there. The Cuban population in Miami, since the Bay of pigs, since the debacle with with John F. Kennedy, stopping Democrat in the 60s and has been Republican reliable ever since. But what had been happening is that newly arrived people from other countries were overwhelmingly Democrat until the Republicans started to associate the Democratic Party, Joe Biden, otherwise Hillary Clinton with communism. And that's all we saw on full display and for size restaurant was an expression of that that happens every day. He knew it. That's why he went there. These are these comfortable little places and rallies and things so that Donald Trump

can have a split screen instead of having the charcoal sketch of him as a criminal defendant in a courtroom. He can still he can get happy birthday and some prayers prayer breakfast that broke out at this Cuban restaurant in Miami. So that's that, but at the same time, in real life courtroom world, you have Judge Kaplan, considering a motion for leave to amend

the original case of E. Jean Carroll for defamation related to the sexual attack that happened to her inside the Berkdorf-Gutman dressing room in April, spring of 1996. He made a decision. Karen, what you learned about that decision? It was fascinating what happened in that case because if you recall, after Donald Trump left court after he was convicted.

After he, there was a judgment. I'm learning the new civil language here. After there was a judgment against him by a jury in the E.G. Carroll case, the very next day, he went out and made more defamatory statements against her. And Robbie Kaplan, E.G. Carroll's lawyer, moved to amend the complaint in order to be able to add those new statements and add new charges, if you will, against Donald Trump, in the remaining E. Jean Carroll defamation case. And yesterday, it was allowed The medid complaint was allowed, and the judge granted the emotion

to amend the complaint and add these statements. So I thought that was great, right? It was a really good, good ruling for Robbie Kaplan. But, you know, look, there's still some open questions in that case, right? This is the case where there was's you know there was E. Carol one and E. Carol two and the reason E.

Carol two went first was because of this open legal question in E. Carol one, which is when when there's something called the West Fall Act, which means that the government puts themselves in the place of the defendant if you're ever being sued civilly, when it was the course of your duties, as an employee of the government. And so that still, that is being considered by the court,

and that's still an open question, but they're still fighting over that. And it was interesting because the Department of Justice submitted a motion earlier to substitute themselves under the West Fall Act to substitute themselves in Donald Trump's place because he was president and answering questions of the reporters while he was president. But then the second circuit vacated this, that ruling and remanded it for further proceedings.

But then in Washington, D.C., their Court of Appeals clarified that Washington, D.C.'s respond yet, superior law was in such a way, they clarified what it was and what it wasn't. And so then DOJ said, given these collective developments, the prior certification and motion to substitute have been overtaken by events. That's the language they used. And that was filed, I think yesterday as well, that language.

And I'm like, what does that mean overtaken by events? And they didn't clarify that. And so Robbie Kaplan responded and wrote a letter to the judge saying that the Department of Justice makes it clear that they no longer stand by their Westfall certification. But DOJ wants more time to consider it. And she opposed that and said, they don't need more time

or more information because of the party's advanced age, you know, both E.G. Carole and Trump. But I thought that was a slight veiled dig at Trump, you know, that because he goes on and on about how, you know, how Joe Biden is an advanced age. But I think she was, I don't know, I don't know if you read it that way, but that's how I read it. And basically said, any delay will make it so that this case never happens because Donald Trump is running for president.

Now, do you see a theme here, right? Basically, Donald Trump, his best defense to everything is no trial because so far he loses everything, right? The Trump organization lost in the 17 count case before Alvin Bragg's office. He wasn't a defendant, but it was his organization, conviction. E. Jean Carroll, a jury, here's the case about sexual abuse and defamation, judgment or conviction.

He doesn't want a trial. These are strong cases, all of them. So I don't think, I don't think he wants any of these cases to go. He doesn't want Alvin Bragg's new case, the Stormy Daniels case to go to trial. He doesn't want Latisha James civil case to go to trial. He doesn't want the Mar-a-Lago case to go to trial. And the Doc Mins case that was just brought, and he certainly isn't going to want the January 6th case to go to trial or the Fanny Willis case to go to trial. So what he and his lawyers are going to do in all of those cases, including the E. Jean Carroll case,

is they're going to try and delay, delay, delay, delay, so that it gets too close to the general election and hope that he either gets elected or that a Republican gets elected. And then these cases are no longer... That's something happens to them. But he doesn't want any of these cases to go to trial, including this E. Jean Carroll case, because as you've pointed out many times, Popoq, the fact of the matter is,

the law of the case here, because the jury already decided that he sexually abused E. Jean Carroll, it's just about the defamatory statements, right? That's the only question and damages that they need to decide. So he doesn't want to trial. He never wants to trial because he's hoping it never happens. That's my opinion about all these cases.

Well, the good news is it doesn't really matter what he wants. He's gonna go to trial in all of the cases that we just identified one way or the other. It's only about timing. As I've said, frequently in the past, when bad things are happening to you, try to make them go as slow as possible. And it doesn't mean that the federal government and the federal, ultimately, the federal judiciary is going to comply with that. I don't believe that

they will. We have plenty of time between now and, and I mean, we're, we're a far away off from even the primaries, let alone the election, let alone the inauguration, let alone him winning. So there's two, for me, there's two immutable facts. I, well, three, I want Donald Trump to be the candidate for the Republicans because there is no way on God's green earth he's going to win the general election. He did it once against a relatively weak candidate because of our own baggage in Hillary Clinton.

He was not able to do it again, and he lost by a lot, not by a little, in the next go around. And I don't think he's manufactured any new voters. He activates, stimulates, and foments the existing base. Yes, and they come out, well, they didn't really come out in droves. There were like 500 people that showed up, even in Miami, which is his biggest stronghold. There were more people in the resized bakery

than there were on the street of Miami. So for those that thought, oh, it's gonna, even I said, I think this could be overrun. No, that didn't happen. And it didn't happen in New York. And he's got and he's got five per he's got 95% less people following him on his truth social than he ever did on Twitter.

He's not as popular, you know, the split screens and these these rallies that he's fake rallies with these, you know, little white folding chairs and bunting, flag bunting. He's going to lose. If he, you know, it won't be the Republicans if they nominated, which looks like they're hell bent on doing because the bridge is out and he's going to lose the general election. So the trials are going to happen. He may be 80 years old when they happen. But if he loses, you're 100% right,

that will be lost. And if he wins, maybe the trial, some of those trials will have happened already. Well, I hope you're right. Yeah, I hope you're right. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. Yeah. I mean, you're right. I hope you're done. Yeah.

I mean, and to your point, he's trying to move the case from Alvin Bragg's case on the 34 count indictment from state court to federal court. That might be a good, maybe the federal government says, you know what? It's not like we're in love with the judge. I mean, yeah, sure, they like Mershaw, who doesn't, but they could take the federal government says, you know what? It's not like we're in love with the judge. I mean, yeah, sure, they like Mershan who doesn't, but they could take a federal judge. They'll take heller's theater. Maybe that'll put it on a faster track.

So then you've got, right? Then you got faster New York hush money case. And you've got, right? Maybe look, Jack Smith and his team, like you used to do as a prosecutor, and like I've done, they have to do a little bit of regrouping now from what happened in the courtroom,

representations that were made. You, I mean, when I say you, I don't mean you. People don't think that that Jackson mitt saw that Donald Trump's lawyers without his own lawyer presence talk to Walton Outta, and that's not registering in his mind about a witness problem. A lawyers that are being paid by Save America Pack, Donald Trump's pack.

So these are all things that now to develop an effective counter punch, the prosecutors have to now react to. Maybe the strategy is fine. You want Judge Hallerstein? Let's go federal. It's faster for us anyway. We'll have two federals.

There's going to be a third federal because us anyway. We'll have two federals. There's gonna be a third federal because we're gonna get the second indictment. And maybe the ones that take the back seat is Fawni Willis because she's got her, but not on the indictment. It's not gonna stop her from getting the indictment from the ultimate trial.

And so maybe there's only one or two trials that happens before the election or before primary season. That's okay, I could take it. Jack Smith, one of the reasons I think he waited so long to develop all of that evidence is that just like you and you were a prosecutor, he's not trying to win, you know, a playoff game. He's not just trying to get the indictment.

He wants to win the championship and until he was ready to have all of his Evidence ready so that he could move as quickly as possible to a trial. Look, he's got a watch. He knows he's got a calendar He knows how far away things are so I think when they get in front of the next time The like you said a control date when they're back in court, and they're talking about scheduling. I think we're gonna see a Jack Smith saying, we're ready. We're ready for December. We're ready for November, but we're ready. And they're gonna argue, no, you're in a half.

And this judge is gonna split down the middle in first quarter of 2024. We're gonna see a Miami trial. That's what I think's gonna happen, but that's what makes this show great entertainment. We don't quite know yet. We don't know exactly. That's what I think is gonna happen, but that's what makes this show great entertainment. We don't quite know yet. We don't know exactly. We have no idea what's gonna happen,

and whether or not that will be successful and whether or not Eileen can and will push this or she'll allow Donald Trump to make these motions in delay and respond. And so we'll see, but as you're pointing out, there's lots of opportunities for all the trials to go, right? Even if she, even if she does mischief with this particular case, the other judges and the other cases could push those and hopefully, hopefully at least one will happen before I'm going to share a champagne toast with you. If hellerstein ends up being the judge,

either because he rules on, on the statute that he has the power to adjudicate the case in federal court, the New York State Stormy Daniels case or otherwise, you and I will have a champagne toast because that would be that, they may lay down for that one, the federal government, the more the more I think about it. The member, we talked about it. You had your opinion about it. Yeah, I think. It's not an opinion that, yeah.

That I said, it's possible. My opinion is, I think that yeah, that I said there's it's there's possible My opinion is I don't think it's as much of a everyone's like no way no way no way I said I don't you know hold on that there is an argument here But I also said and I still believe this that why fight it right don't find it like it would be great to have this in federal That's what I think they pulled a good judge. They pulled a house Great judge like you know who who's been involved with other cases involving Trump and Cohen and is a Democratic appointee and a senior judge that's no nonsense. Why not? He he he sounds like he's the federal equivalent of judge Mershawn anyway. So let's let's

go into the faster rocket docket of the federal courthouse. And now there's new reporting. I mean, I did a hot take on this because I know most of the federal defense bench down in Miami that, you know, he was doing this, you know, come meet me at a derral country club, his other golf course. And let me interview some people. I know these Miami lawyers. Most of them took that meeting because they wanted to brag for their own brand that they were considered and they turned down Donald Trump. That's one. Secondly, because they know of his history of screwing his lawyers and not paying them and the tremendous premium you have to build into whatever money you get from Donald Trump, that your client is going to lie to you, is going to involve you in a crime

or fraud. You have to get more money up front. And apparently some of them, even though they would do it, because again, I wanna make this clear, everyone, everyone, even Donald Trump, is entitled to a defense in our justice system. Otherwise, frankly, it doesn't work. And we are a banana republic.

I don't want that. I want a robust and muscular adversarial process with the federal government, which has tremendous resources at its disposal, tremendous resources. There's always information asymmetry between the federal government and a defendant, even one is powerful in principle as a former president like Donald Trump, but and he needs a lawyer. Of course, I'm taking special delight that they're turning him down, but ultimately he's entitled to a lawyer and if an employee lawyer who is competent like Blanche, like Susan Necklace, like some of these other ones decide that under their concept of justice, this person deserves a

defense and they're going to step in for it. Okay, I don't fault them for that. Be careful. You might get your law license pulled as a result. And so these, the reporting now is that either because they don't really want to do it unless they're paid a gobsmacking some of money, they're putting up retainer demands to Donald Trump.

Like sure, we'll do it. We want my kice. Look, kice got $3 million up front from the save America pack before he would even one leave his law firm. He quit his law firm as did Todd Blanche. Both kice and blanche quit their law firms. They were with nationally well-known law firms. One was that one I was at, fully and lordner based in Milwaukee and he was in the Tallahassee office, Chris Geiss. He quit it to take one client and open up a shop, a small shop in Miami, just for Donald Trump,

and Todd Blanche did the exact same thing. He left a major firm to go represent Donald Trump. But the rest of them want their money up front. Like, here's the budget for an entire trial for you, Donald Trump. We think that's $15 million, and we want half of it up front. Like, here's the budget for an entire trial for you, Donald Trump. We think that's $15 million and we want half of it up front. I'm sure those are the numbers that are being thrown around. Yeah, but I guess you're, I'm sure you're right about this, but but I feel like one major concern for the lawyers isn't the money because the packs are paying for

it, right? The money's there. I thought the issue is, you know, what you always say, which is, you know, magas stands for make attorneys get attorneys. I mean, you, you, like, look what happens as soon as, as soon as you work for him, he has, he asks, he wants you to commit crimes for him. He wants you to, you know, go out there and do frivolous motions. I mean, everyone, every one of his lawyers, if you do what he wants you to do, you get sanctioned by the court or I guarantee in January 6, you know, his co-defend, and some of them are going to be his prior lawyers, right?

You've got Evan Corcoran in there. He's taking these detailed notes because he knows he's being used, and he wants to protect himself, right? Yeah, I mean, who takes notes like that with a comment? Nobody. Nobody, right? So, I wonder whether part of it is the money or part of it is, is, I don't want to put myself in harms.

He doesn't want my advice, right? He doesn't want anyone's real advice. He wants to use you as a tool to do what he wants and do his bidding, which gets you into very serious trouble as an attorney. Like, I just don't know anyone who would put themselves and their reputation and their, you know, their practice at risk like that?

Who, for those that don't bring in clients the way Karen and I do, what you have to evaluate, especially a criminal defense client, is you have to tell them that there's nothing, nothing that will interfere with my exercise of my independent professional judgment on your behalf. And if I ever find that that's being compromised, you're not listening to me. You're lying to me. You're making me participate in things that are inappropriate, then you have to quit your client. Evan Corcoran wanted it both ways. He wanted his CYA

So he kept 50 pages of detailed notes Good on him for the prosecution But I I would have left the case if I had thought that I had to keep it if I thought I had to keep 50 pages of surveillance notes Surveillance notes on my own client. I would have already left the case But it's not unusual in the world of white collar criminal defense or any kind of criminal defense with a lot of money at stake to get all your money up front. It's just the nature of the business. So I've been involved with cases where, you know, there's a trial. It's a year away. It's complicated. There's going to be five people on the case. And we

could retainer that was equal to what we projected would be all the way through trial. Because a lot of times criminal defendants, especially if they lose and they often do. I mean, there's a reason most 95% or more, listen to that statistic, 95% or more federally indicted criminals do not take their case to trial because when they do, they lose. That's why there's so much pressure on them to plead. Yes, there's the occasional case. There's a lost trial here and somebody won over here and some conviction got reversed by a Pelocourt, but by and large and that funnel, most case 90%, 90% plus will end up at trial. You will lose. And so, you know, when people lose,

they don't want to pay their lawyer. So you get all the money up front. So that, that's also the rock in a hard place that Donald Trump is in the middle of, which is he's a, he's a, he's a confirmed convicted deadbeat, deadbeat, not paying his lawyers. And the premium you have to build in that he's going to lie to you and get you in trouble as a lawyer and you want all your money upfront. And so even though they got pack money, I don't know. He's the consummate art of the deal trying to negotiate because he'll fall back on Kice. He'll fall back on Kice.

They're not going to find a lawyer, for instance. I think this ends up just to wrap up something we talked about earlier. I think this ends up in Miami because they have security concerns in West Palm Beach and in Fort Pierce. So I think this will, they did a trial run here yesterday or the day before. This will be in Miami. She'll have to schlep down from wherever she's at. She does often.

She has chambers in Miami. She's got a magistrate in Miami, Judge Cannon. So once that happens, I don't know if she knows many of the lawyers down in South Florida. She was in a pellet lawyer for the US attorney's office up at North Florida. I don't think she knows. I don't think it's going to change, move the needle because somebody with a reputation, a good reputation in Miami decides to take the case. Kai says as good as anybody. He was solicitor general for the state of Florida. He's argued at the US Supreme Court.

He's not an idiot and toplanches, either. Toplanches are good lawyers. So the two of them can handle this case. I don't think they need to go more interviewing of more people, but listen, you know, we're gonna see. But so Karen, we've reached the end of another edition, midweek edition of legal AF, where we go over those politically charged litigation matters at that intersection of law and politics from

the perspective of two practicing defense lawyers and one of which is a former federal prosecutor. I mean, I said on a hot take recently that the only on the Midas Touch network, do you have this combination of legal analysts? You got Ben Mysalis, the co-founder of Midas Touch itself, and a civil rights, extraordinary civil rights lawyer in his own right. And for all things Florida, I practiced Florida, Miami, and in Florida for over 20 years,

including in the Southern District of Florida as a trial lawyer, in front of court rooms and court houses just like this one. And then for everything related to Manhattan and New York, you've got anything prosecutorial. You've got Karen Friedman, Ignathe Philip, former number two who ran the office for the Manhattan DA's office. So, um, you know, I think, I think that is where, uh, you want to be to

get honest, honest fair factual analysis And all that Karen you still with us Hi, all right, I like I like giving you the last word I know we're on a little bit of a time crunch today So let me give you a quick last word to wrap up for today Yeah, well if this is a historic moment right in time we had an arrangement of you know This is a historic moment, right? In time, we had an arrangement of, you know, a federal arrangement of the first president

of the United States. And I'm just, there's no one I'd rather be here with this historic moment than you, Popox. So breaking it all down and, you know, really going over the ins and outs. And certainly nobody knows Florida like you. So the fact that this is happening in Florida and that we have you to do the reveal codes

and tell us who the lawyers are and the judges are and what the courtrooms are and tell us all the little details that I can do for the Manhattan DA's office because that's where I worked. You can do it in Florida. So this is just incredible that you're able to provide this for all the legal AFers out there. If I could put together a dream team in a laboratory to do this for the Midas

Mighty and the Legal AFers, this would be the dream team. It's always a pleasure. It's my highlight of my midweek and Saturdays with Ben. Shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal AFers. We'll see you Saturday with Ben, my sales and next Wednesday, right here again on the Midest Touch Network, Legal AF.