Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump GASPS FOR AIR against LEGAL TSUNAMI

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

Michael Popok and Karen Friedman Agnifilo host the midweek edition of the top-rated Legal AF podcast. On tap? 1. The Georgia Supreme Court may have save the Georgia battleground state for Kamala Harris in rejecting MAGA's last minute attempts at voter suppression 2. Trump is considering awarding all of his criminal defense lawyers and favorite judges with plum DOJ positions, including possibly Judge Aileen Cannon for Attorney General; 3. Rudy Giulani being ordered to turn over virtually all of his assets to former Fulton County election workers Shay Moss and Ruby Freeman including the $2 million he is owed by Trump; 4. Elon Musk's vote buying stunt runs into the enforcement powers of the DOJ; and so much more at the intersection of law and politics. Subscribe to the new Legal AF channel: https://www.youtube.com/@LegalAFMTN Subscribe to Meidas+ at https://meidasplus.com Thanks to our sponsors: Honey Love: Get 20% Off your entire order with our exclusive link: https://honeylove.com/LEGALAF Armra: Head to https://tryarmra.com/legalaf or enter promo code: LEGALAF to receive 15% off your first order! Miracle Made: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://TryMiracle.com/LEGALAF and use the code LEGALAF to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF. Lomi: Visit https://Lomi.com/LEGALAF and use code LEGALAF and checkout to save $50! Zbtioics: Head to https://zbiotics.com/LegalAF to get 15% off your first order when you use LEGALAF at checkout. Qualia: To boost YOUR NAD+ levels up to 50%, Go to https://qualialife.com/TRUTH for up to 50% off and use code TRUTH at checkout for an additional 15% off. Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It is the midweek edition of Legal AF. You are on the Midas Touch Network and you are looking and listening to Karen Friedman at Kniflo and Michael Popak. Wow, what a week and it's still going Karen, but these are the ones that we curated for our audience that we think at the intersection of law and politics that they need to know the most. We're going to kick it off with Judge Cannon. We always goofed around thinking,

well, Donald Trump's not gonna actually make her a Supreme Court justice, is he? He's not gonna put her as the Attorney General, is he? And now she's on the list. While a case is still pending at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals about whether she should be presiding over a criminal case or not. There is a leak out of the Trump transition team that apparently

Boris Epstein, who got indicted in Arizona but is the one of the lead people for Donald Trump to pick his lawyers, has put her on the list as number two as a choice for attorney general. And wait till you hear who the other people are who could be working under her or running the FBI if Trump were to win. We're going to talk about it and what should happen at the 11th Circuit. What should the prosecutor do with this new information, if anything? And what should the 11th Circuit do to try to reinstill in Americans their belief in the integrity of our criminal court system.

Then we're gonna fast forward to another MAGA lawyer takes a major hit got a new order out by Judge Lyman in New York against Rudy Giuliani ordering him in six more days to turn over virtually everything that he owns except for two things we'll talk about. We're talking dozens of watches, sports memorabilia, money in his bank account, anything that he owns, his apartment in New York, soon to be his apartment in Florida with one caveat. We'll talk about the Yankee rings that his son claims are his, and he's got to turn them over to Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss.

I love the poetic justice of this who will serve as their own receivers holding a 150 million dollar or so judgment against Rudy Giuliani for defamation and punitive damages and a comment that Judge Lyman wrote about the upside down world that Rudy resides in and why he wasn't going to allow Rudy to get away with not turning over all of his assets to Ruby Freeman and Shae Moss to pay off the $150 million judgment. And then after we're done talking about how Rudy has wrecked his life and how a measure of justice is being awarded to Ruby Freeman and Shae Moss. We'll talk about the Georgia Supreme Court in a surprising decision has actually sided with democracy about whether the state election board in Georgia, controlled by Trumpers since September, was going to be allowed to pass seven

new rules to help Donald Trump win and steal that election in Georgia or not. We got a new result from the Georgia Supreme Court. I was shocked by it. And we'll talk about it over with Karen Freeman, and see what everybody here in the chat feels about it. And then lastly, got Elon Musk. Spent a lot of jokes and guffawing over in Maga World about him handing out, like he's some sort of demented

Ed McMahon showing up at your door for the sweepstakes, handing you a giant check for a million dollars but the Department of Justice also sees it as potential crimes because you're not allowed to buy somebody's vote even if you do it through a lottery system you're not allowed to run a lottery system by the way in that way nor are you allowed to pay for somebody to be registered or to register to vote we already already had that earlier. So this is what happens when you outsource your entire get out the vote campaign and machine to Elon Musk who's barely voted in his life let alone never run a get out the vote

campaign before and we also have new information kind of around this issue that Elon Musk is getting hacked himself, which is great poetic justice, and that's the election interference that we can get behind, because there's new reporting that at least 25 to 30% of people that are being paid by the Trump campaign through Elon Musk, the knock on doors,

aren't knocking on doors. They're sitting in cafes using GPS spoofing software to act like they're knocking on doors and getting paid to do it when they're not really doing that. And I just think it's ironic that the person who considers himself the king of computers and technology just got hacked. Let's bring in Karen. Hello. Hello. Tell me about your week. How's your week going? Week is going great. It couldn't be better. A lot going on. I can't believe there's two weeks left before the election.

And it just feels like a frenzy of activity going on in in this whole election cycle. And it's a nail biter. It's an absolute nail biter. And it's it's terrifying, actually. And I've been having some pretty, pretty serious conversations with people who will say that this election isn't about whether or not you want your taxes higher or lower,

or whether the economy or what your opinion is on immigration, that this is about democracy and about whether or not the rule of law means something. And I think that message is starting to get through to people because that is what this is about. That is not hyperbolic. And that was really heartening for me to start having hearing that from other people as opposed to the way I usually feel, which is trying to convince people of that. So, so I think it's great.

Yeah, I mean, the other side has scary transgender people, illegal immigrants from Congo living under your bed and trying to molest your children to try to get people to vote. And we've got the Supreme Court is on the ballot for two generations. Women's right to choose is on the ballot for two generations. These are more esoteric issues. It's hard. They're not pocketbook issues. They're not social wedge issues. But they are more important to our constitutional republic than anything that's being run in trickery at the last minute by the Republicans on the other side. I mean, I've got my own sort of personal polling prediction, and people can mark this, put it in the time capsule, we'll reopen it on the 6th or 7th of November when all the votes

are sort of lined up and in and states have been declared. I don't think it's, I think it's either razor thin and Kamala wins it, my own prediction, because I think she's under polling despite some discussion in the media who's sort of bored and running out of things to talk about, so they have to create fake news stories like, will black males support Kamala Harris? I mean, yes. Will the gender, will the gender be the issue and there'll be a leakage of one or 2% that people just won't vote for Kamala Harris? No.

I mean, yes, yes and no. But for me, I think she's under polling. The strength of the pent up demand for Democrats and to take out Donald Trump and make sure that Trumpism and MAGA dictatorships and fascism is crushed once and for all. In states like Georgia, North Carolina and Pennsylvania, I think Will is being underpolled

and not showing up in some of these pollies. I mean, one little dirty little secret that isn't talked about much in corporate media is that since the last election till now, we got a whole new group of actors and companies that are handling polling in America. And most of them, the trend to the right. So we've got right-wing pollsters handling polling now. Some polling companies got out of the business since 2020, and the

debacle that was polling then. And new ones have gotten in, and now it's not balanced. And it's a lot of MAGA and right Republican polling going on, which I don't think is properly picking up her strength. So I think it's either razor thin, sort of what we saw with Biden a little bit with Clinton, but with her on top, or it is, I don't want to say a landslide and jinx it, but I think it's an overwhelming win for her. I don't see a scenario where it's an overwhelming win for him above 270. We just have to hold him back from 270. He naturally has, I don't know, about 230 at the moment, based on the ones we could just put in his column right now, take away the battleground and swing states.

And she's got a little bit more than that. But the question is, how do you count to 270? And the scenarios that I see, I mean, if we really just leave our audience on this politics note, if you live in Georgia and North Carolina and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, if she wins that combination, she will crush MAGA and put it out, put us out of their misery forever. If she wins Georgia, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina, this is not only game over, but this will be a crushing defeat for all things Donald Trump. I'm not trying to put pressure on our followers and listeners in those particular states, but if she pulls that off and runs the table there, which is a scenario that's possible. I think it is,

we'll wake up so poppin' champagne on the 6th of November, right? Oh, 100%. What concerns me though is that regardless of whether the numbers show her winning, and even by a landslide, Trump's never going to accept that and neither are his MAGA supporters. And so what lengths they will go to, we know already they're going to bring fake, they're going to bring, I should say, meritless legal claims because they're already doing that and making claims like they did before that there are dead people voting and illegal immigrants voting and double voting and all of that. So they're going to try to tie it all up. They're going to try to make a lot of mischief. And I'm hoping that the courts are the ones that are,

you know, I did a hot take, I think yesterday I said, you know, not all heroes wear capes. For this election, it's going to be, they're going to be, the heroes are going to be wearing robes because they're really the only ones who are going to be able to make sure that the checks and balances of our system are in place given what Donald Trump and all of the rest of the MAGA cronies are trying to do. And thankfully, a lot of judges are doing that. And that's why it's so important that judges are not partisan, that they call balls and strikes, they look at the law, they rule without fear or favor, and it's a perfect segue to our first topic that we're gonna talk about, and that's Eileen Cannon, who is a judge who is the opposite of what I just described

and what's going on with her. Well, I like the segue, but why don't, you know, if you don't mind, why don't we do Georgia first, right off right off the heels of that, kind of pick up the steam here about judges doing the right thing before we get to the ones that are promoting themselves to be appointed to some Supreme Court position or attorney general. So you did a nice hot take on it. I did one recently too about Georgia, where we last left it when we were together at the midweek is we had two cases at two judges

at two different courtrooms inside of the Fulton County courthouse in Atlanta, Judge Cox and Judge McBurney. Both got cases that were similar about the new rules that the state election board had passed at the last minute in September when they got the three votes majority for MAGA, seven new rules, the two that get the most publicity are hand counting every ballot the night of the election or so, which seems impossible. And the second related to reasonable inquiry into that any related to certification that

any one MAGA county can board member could raise to try to delay certification. So rules that delayed the vote counting and rules that delayed the vote certification and empowering in counties where MAGA was outnumbered, any one MAGA could raise an issue and not agree to certify, which was a monkey wrench that would delay things and would stop the vote certification and Georgia participating in our national election unless court ordered to do so, and then vote counting. And they came up in different ways to the judge. And McBurney came up as a temporary restraining order about the county board and it being forced to use these new rules, which they

said they couldn't possibly do. And he had to make a decision on a temporary basis about some of those rules. But at the same time, Judge Cox had a full blown hearing with evidence and briefing, and he was ready to go to final judgment. So in one day, we reported that Judge McBurney ruled that certain of the rules on a temporary basis

because they were passed so late in the game would not apply to the upcoming election. And then two days later a judge down. Some people are asking why did they consolidate them into one case so we didn't have a possibility of conflicting rulings? That's a very good question that got asked and I don't know the answer to it but because we could have had one judge issuing one order and one judge saying no I think the rules are fine and then we're up at the Georgia Supreme Court. So then you had Judge Cox, right, who said, why don't you take Cox, what he said about the rules, final judgment order, and then how this got to the Georgia Supreme Court by way of the Republican National Committee and Georgia Republicans

and what happened there? Yeah, I mean, look, Judge McBurney was basically focusing on the fact that, look, this is going to cause chaos and confusion. This is too close to the election. We haven't had enough time to prepare. We haven't had enough time to, to, um, hire people and train people. And it's just going to sow chaos. Uh, that didn't appear to be the issue that Cox was focusing on. Instead, he was focusing on the fact that these new rules were unsupported by any part of the Georgia's election statutes. And he found that the rules are actually contrary to the election code. He said they're inconsistent

with the law. And, you know, he kind of really smacked them down and made a ruling on the merits, as you said, after a trial on these various rules saying, no, you three member MAGA election board people, that's not how you can make these rules. They're inconsistent with the laws that the legislature has passed in Georgia. So no, you can't do that.

The way to do that and make different rules is to go to the legislature. And Judge McBurney, because his was in a different posture, his was sort of this temporary, this is like an emergency posture, make a decision quickly. He said, look, it's just too chaotic, too quickly, and it's the opposite of an orderly election. And what happened this week was this emergency application before the Georgia

Supreme Court. And as I like to say, the court unanimously issued a, what I call a two word decision, you know, denied, they just denied this. And they basically said, no, we're not going to do these new rules. We are not going to implement these last minute election rules. We are going to just keep it the way it is. And let's just keep going. And that was lovely to see, right?

And especially in a state like Georgia, where it can be a there's, you know, it can be a conservative state that again, the rule of law actually matters. And I'm just very happy to see judges doing the right thing and not being partisan. Yeah, we don't know exactly why that happened. And the Georgia, I mean, Georgia is a weird place, right? The Republican governors are generally not MAGA, including Kemp. I don't love everything he's ever done, but he's not MAGA and he's been on the wrong side of Donald Trump enough that we know that, including in 2020, when Donald Trump was breathing down his

neck to hold special sessions of the General Assembly in Georgia to try to get to the bottom of the voter fraud issue, to try to turn the tide and find 11,780 votes. And Donald Trump hasn't relented yet. Every time he's in Georgia, he always finds a way to criticize Kemp. So the people that are on the Supreme Court are appointed by governors that are Republican in Georgia, but not necessarily that brand, that unique brand of Republican called MAGA. And the last time there was, I can't remember the last time there was a

Democrat who was the governor of Georgia. I wonder if we have to go back to Jimmy Carter. unique brand of Republican called MAGA. The last time there was, I can't remember the last time there was a Democrat who was the governor of Georgia. I wonder if we have to go back to Jimmy Carter, who's just turned 100. But so I was like, I don't know, this brand of Republican, what are they gonna do? But they did the right thing in a very short order. They just said the emergency application for an appeal

now to happen without the normal course, which is months of appellate work, it would be like a year, and whether they're even gonna take this as a direct appeal. See, the Republicans skipped a step. They skipped one level of appellate court, and they went right to the Georgia Supreme Court, and there's very narrow grounds

to skip a step and end up at your highest court in the state like Georgia. And I don't know whether they didn't qualify for it. I looked at their petition briefly before we started recording. We can't tell from the order, but they did not feel that the emergency was present nor the need to do it. I think it's because we're 12 days or 13 days away from the election. Courts that want to do that and monkey around with our justice system, like the United States Supreme Court in 2000, the Florida Supreme Court in 2000, they'll find ways

to do like, you know, briefing over 36 hours and hearings. But most courts are like you know what we don't really have enough time on the clock here to do this. Now it doesn't mean that in 2025 they're not going to have to make an ultimate determination whether the state election board, this board that we're talking about, has the power, a five-person board, as delegated by the legislature of Georgia to change all of these rules about voting or counting or whether that resides with the state houses. I mean it is inconsistent with the other fringe theories that MAGA has been promoting like the independent legislature doctrine, which says that there is nobody other than the legislative body that can make decisions about voting

and time, place and manner and other things. And that means ignore our secretary of state, especially if he's from a different party, ignore our governor, ignore our heads of election and ignore our election board. So there's going to be this battle here. This is not consistent with some of the fringiest theories that are running around and trying to make their way to the US Supreme Court about the power of the state houses. And so we're gonna follow and see what happens.

That's what I think one of the beauties of the show is that we do follow up and do follow on with stories like this. So let's move on from, when we come back, we'll talk about the thing that we started with at the top of the show, which is this leaked, but wasn't leaked, leaked transition memo, sort of a trial balloon about how do you like the criminal court judge that was presiding over Donald Trump being your attorney general? And if you don't like that, what about the

criminal, the criminal defense lawyer that was Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer in that very proceeding being her deputy general counsel or the other attorney that's representing the defendants in Mar-a-Lago being a deputy attorney general reporting to the judge who was in the case. If that troubles you, you're going to want to come back when we come back from our break and discuss that and discuss some things where Elon Musk has gotten into trouble, of course, with the with the Department of Justice and what we do about all of that. There's that big giant check that he's doing. And then frankly, we got to talk about Rudy Giuliani and how he is about to lose, I don't know, $10 million of his $10.5 million estate to Ruby Freeman and Seymour

and why that should be a cautionary tale to people in MAGA who are trying, who are thinking about doing that again to people who are election workers or others for the 2024 election and beyond. But first, we're going to, we we gotta do that thing that pays the bills. Might as touch it on Legal AF. There's a number of ways to support us. One being here supports us. Leaving comments and notes in the chat and in the comment section. Reviewing us on wherever you get your podcasts from. Like ApplePod has that section where you can leave comments. Believe me, we do read it for our own constructive criticism and to improve as podcasters and as part of building this network, we do do that. And that's the way to do that. And then

of course we've got other podcasts from people that contribute. As I've said also, not all superheroes have capes. And here we've got a bunch in the Midas universe, including Karen Friedman, who has another great show called Mistrial. There it is, Karen Friedman, Donnie Perry, and Kathleen Rice. I'm gonna see all three of them this week in New York, which is always a pleasure.

And so that's a unique take on law and politics from a former prosecutor angle. And I think you guys will enjoy that show as well. We got a new you know We're bursting at the seams of so much information at the intersection of law and politics that legal AF and Midas touch got together Is it we need another channel? So we formed one. It's called legal AF MTN well, it's legal AF but if you're looking for it on YouTube right now You can actually plug in legal AF and it will pull off legal AF the new channel

But if you're looking for it formally or telling friends, Legal AF, M.T.N. from Midas Touch Network, sort of the chief curator over there. And I put together a great combination of Midas universe people like Karen Freeman at Nifilo, Dina Dahl who's doing a show with me called Unprecedented About What Else, the United States Supreme Court once a week.

And then we got Court Accountability, which is over there doing some great investigative reporting. I just did a bunch of hot takes with Lisa Graves again, and Alex Aronson, and they have their own playlist dedicated to what they do to expose corruption at the federal court system up to the United States Supreme Court level. And then we got Shan Wu from Under Color of Law, who's going to be doing new content. And in fact, we got his first one going up, I think tomorrow, some new hot takes from Karen Freeman at Niflo.

So free subscribe, we hit 250,000 subscribers in 35 days, over 12 million views of our work over there. And we'd love you to come over, help us build that pro-democracy channel as well. And then we've got finally, some great pro-democracy sponsors curated by the Midas brothers, Jordy in particular. We've tried them all, we like them all,

and that's why we're talking about them. Watch the commercial, it helps. Okay? It's an opportunity to see us doing commercials. And then if you have the money, and I'm not putting my hand in your pockets, if you have the money, you think the product would be interesting and you listen to our description of it, take a shot. We got you some great promotional discount codes and all sorts of things, usually some sort of version of Legal AF, although listen carefully to what you have to do for each individual sponsor. And we've got our first round of sponsors coming up

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That's qualialife.com slash truth for an extra 15% off your purchase. Thanks to Qualia for sponsoring today's episode. Talking about truth, we're back. That's all we talk about here. Let's talk about the leak of the presidential transition team memo. Yeah, I don't know if it's really a leak. There's all big article about my former boss out there, who's the head of the presidential campaign transition committee along with Linda McMahon.

Yeah, I'm not buying the leak. But apparently, according to reporting, Boris Epstein took over from Michael Cohen as the consulieri who's been indicted in Arizona, was an unindicted co-conspirator in the DC election. And in Ferent's case, was instrumental in putting together this list of legal principles, and I mean people not governing norms, who would fill up a Trump set of lawyer positions from the White House counsel's position all the way all the way through the different attorneys that would head up the different cabinet level and department

levels and of course the apex the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney Generals and things like that and hope oh, added after the decision, apparently by Aileen Cannon, to dismiss the 40 felony count indictment of Donald Trump in Mar-a-Lago or so, she was added as a candidate for attorney general, apparently number two, number one, maybe Jay Clayton for the Securities and Exchange Commission, although I don't think, I think he's more likely for the Securities and Exchange Commission again, making her the number one candidate. And if it's not her, it's a bunch of others scary. It's like a rogues gallery of ghastly figures who are going to try to suffocate American democracy and the rule of law in the middle of the night and chloroform it if we give them the chance. What did you make from the reporting? What unique things did you pick up you want to

share with our audience? Yeah, look, as we were talking about before about how important it is to have a judge that is completely, completely neutral and has no agenda and has absolutely all the ethics that you want a judge to have. They have to be above all of this. You have to have confidence in the justice system for it to work, right? It's such an important thing. It's non-partisan.

That's why judges aren't allowed to participate in politics. They're not allowed to donate money. That's why if you ever watch the State of the Union, you'll see the Supreme Court justices sit there. And they never stand or clap or smile or show any kind of position on it. Doesn't matter who is speaking, whether it's a Democrat or a Republican.

And it's because neutrality and justice is blind, right? That's the phrase. That's the saying. It's without fear or favor and they have to rise above it and be that person. And of course, Aileen Cannon has shown herself to be nothing but a biased person who doesn't follow the law and instead is doing things on behalf of an individual. And it's just the biggest conflict of interest you can imagine.

It not only will it impact, obviously, this particular case, but it'll impact so much. It'll impact so much about what they do in prosecutions going forward or pardons, right, or dismissals going forward and those recommendations and what happens. And I just think, you know, I have a lot of friends, obviously who either used to work for the Department of Justice or who currently work

for the Department of Justice, whether it's the individual US Attorney's offices or main justice. And I just can't imagine, these individuals are the smartest, best, most ethical, incredible lawyers, right? They only hire kind of the best of the best of the best. They're not a bunch of Jeffrey Clarks who really don't seem to fit that mold.

And so I can't imagine them working for someone like her. And so it just really terrifies me about the state of our legal system and our justice system. The Department of Justice does so much good work. In addition, they have both a civil division and a criminal division, and they really bring cases to make sure that the rule of law is upheld and whether it's civil or criminal. And I just can't imagine someone like her at the helm and what would happen and whether there'd be a mass exodus or whether there would just be people doing things that are not kind of in line with what someone like her would want. So, you know, it just, it was very disheartening, but not surprising to see the people on the list,

that it was the Jeffrey Clarks, right? The guy, remember the guy that was supposed to be, you know, that Trump tried to install as the acting attorney general after he had lost the election, but before he, you know, in those few weeks before he, he, um, he unpeacefully handed over, handed over the office. And, um, and so he's on the list. And as you said, you know, there's other individuals who were just terrifying who, who are on the list.

And, you know, they're in, they're in bed with Clarence Thomas and Ginny Thomas and, you know, his, the the lawyers as you said Todd Blanch and and all the other individuals like it's just all it's it's a who's who of all the people who have really just been loyal to Trump and who serve Trump as opposed to serve justice I'll never forget Preet Bharara who was the United States Attorney for the Southern District who who works for the attorney general, right? Like, so the U.S. attorneys report to the attorney general. And one of the problems he had with Trump,

because he was the attorney general under Barack Obama, and he was one of the United States attorneys that was on the list to remain because he was very respected and very good when Trump took office, which is not usual. Usually the new president installs their own people. And one of the stories that, that, um, Preet Bharara talks about publicly, and I've heard him talk about is how, how Trump wanted him to be, wanted Preet to be loyal to Trump. And Preet said, I can't be, I'm not, I don't want to speak to you directly

on the phone, even like I'm not loyal to a person. I'm loyal to the United States constitution. But that's what Trump wanted out of somebody. And that's what he expects. And that's not the role of an attorney general or a judge or, or anyone who has any business in the justice system. And so it's just a little terrifying that this is the direction that Trump is taking us in. And look, he's been so open and outward kind of talking about how they're going to essentially

weaponize the justice system against his political enemies and against the media and The only person who would do that on behalf of Donald Trump would be someone Like like this and and that was you know, it's it's it's scary. It's it's scary. What what is that stake at this election? Yeah, and you picture this this ghastly scene You got attorney general, um, Aileen Cannon, who was barely qualified to be a federal judge with little or no trial experience. She's only been a judge for the last three or four years, half of it during COVID, not qualified or only qualification is she's, uh, willing to do

the bidding of Donald Trump, her patron. Picture this scene. He wins. Somehow she gets confirmed and that's not a foregone conclusion. She has to go through a Senate confirmation process as do all the cabinet members that he would be appointing directors of the FBI and all of that. And if the Democrats take the Senate or hold the Senate, that would be, I think, rocky at best. But let's say she somehow gets through that. And now Donald Trump gives her the order to fire Jack Smith, who was just before her as a federal judge, fire Jack Smith as special counsel,

which is what he will order her to do. And if not, because it may take two or three months to get her confirmed, she'll have somebody else do it, I it. If not, because it may take two or three months to get her confirmed, she'll have somebody else do it, I guess. But if she did it, and then also, she would be involved with the pardon process. And this is a person who just a minute ago was supposedly fair and impartial,

justice is blind jurist, presiding over the case in which the person that just made her the attorney general was a criminal defendant in front of her. And it's that sort of stink and odor that stinks to high heaven that the 11th Circuit's going to have to deal with now and Jack Smith's going to have to deal with as a prosecutor. The 11th Circuit's got to deal with it because even though the case has been dismissed from her court, it's still subject to possible remand back to her if they reverse, which is likely her decision, first time in our history, finding that the special counsel was

improperly delegated authority under the Constitution and improperly funded. They have to return it to somebody. They don't try cases at the 11th Circuit, they only are appellate court. And if they find that reversible error, reinstate the indictment against Donald Trump and all the other people, you know, and Kamala Harris wins, let's say in this scenario, or even before that, because we got months until the inauguration, you know, two weeks till the election, but many months until January, then the 11th Circuit now, in order to try to protect the integrity of the criminal justice system and people's perception of the fairness of that system, have to do something about a problem named Aileen Cannon.

Because if this is true, and nobody's denied it, by the way, since the leak happened, you don't see the Trumpers coming out saying that no You know nobody you know alien cannons silent about it. So the 11th circuits got to say you got to go alien You know you just as you were you were asked by some of the senior lawyer senior judges in your own district Not to take this case originally you got to go because not to take this case originally, you gotta go. Because the appearance of impropriety is overwhelming here. Even if she didn't make the decision to dismiss the indictment in order to curry favor with Donald Trump,

it certainly looks to any rational human being like there was that quid pro quo. And so she gotta go. So the 11th Circuit can do it on their own. I've said that from the beginning. They have more than enough ammunition and now with this new information to do it. The question is, does Jack Smith tee it up for them with a filing? Now I will tell you that the Southern District of Florida, which is the US Attorney's Office that covers Miami and from Fort Pierce down to Miami,

they just took a position in the in the route in the Ralph case, the guy that was the would-be assassin of Donald Trump maybe on the Mar-a-Lago golf course, you know the guy that had the gun sticking out of the bush two holes ahead of bush ahead of Trump, out of a bush about Trump. The defense, the public defenders representing him, moved to disqualify Aileen Cannon because of what appears to be her close relationship with Donald Trump, especially having just ruled in his favor. But the U.S. Attorney's Office in Southern District, with I'm sure approval by main justice in Washington, said, no, we don't think it's appropriate to remove the judge under those circumstances. And so we got to see now what the special counsel is going to do. Does he stay neutral again?

Or does he drop the gloves and say you know what if she's on the short list for the for the attorney general Then she can't preside over this case any longer. That that's a disqualifying event So we're going to see how that that all plays out What do you think is going to happen with the 11th circuit and removing alien cannon? so, you know, it's so tricky because I keep trying to game this out in my head if if Trump wins Right. He he kind of wants the 11th circuit to reverse her because otherwise he if he wins He's gonna have to dismiss the hunter Biden case that was also brought by a special counsel

he's gonna have which he's not going to want. And, um, so all he has to do is dismiss these cases, right? Whether, whether the 11th circuit sends it back, if he wins, whether the 11th circuit sends it back to her or recuse us or it doesn't matter, he's going to, he's going to order her if she's the attorney general or whoever's attorney general is to dismiss these cases and pardon himself and pardon the unindicted co-conspirators in the January 6th case. I mean, so I don't think he actually wants the law to be that special counsels are not properly, you know, that, I mean, the whole,

don't forget the reason she dismissed the case wasn't because he's innocent wasn't because he was allowed to hold the documents wasn't any of that it was she found that that Special counsels aren't valid right? You're not allowed to do that that the law doesn't allow that and I don't know that Donald Trump actually wants that to be the state of the law, so it's just it's weird to, I don't think he has an ultimate plan. I do think he just is trying to bat things around and game it out so he can ultimately win and you know, just make hay out of out of all of this. But I think they're going to have to ultimately reverse this case, the 11th Circuit, because of course, special counsels, for all the reasons we've talked about over and over again here on the show and the statutes that we've gone over and the precedent and the history, of course, it is perfectly legitimate to have a point to special counsel. It was legitimate here. There's nothing wrong with appointing a special

counsel. In fact, the law actually specifically allows it and Congress authorized funding for it. I mean mean it couldn't be clearer actually despite what Clarence Thomas has said to Eileen Cannon and despite what she said. So I think it's clear they're gonna reverse it and I could see them removing her based on her history of just crazy lawless decisions and as you said now this, this just smells bad. And as many courts have held, the appearance of impropriety is just as bad as actual impropriety.

Because again, it undermines confidence in the justice system, which we can't do. Yeah, so I agree with you. I mean, I'm not sure that it automatically leads to the dismissal of other special counsel things, but I think the 11th Circuit's gonna have to take a position about it. I think they were already leaning towards reassigning her. I think they will reassign

her if they decide to reinstate the indictment in Mar-a-Lago on their findings. We're going to know more as we continue before the election. Pardon me. But again, it just shows you how important there's so many things that are on the ballot besides people running for office in November. The Supreme Court is on the ballot. The rule of law is on the ballot. A woman's right to choose is on the ballot. What kind of country we live in is on the ballot.

And those things may not fit neatly on a bumper sticker or a T-shirt or in a meme tweet or meme, but they're important and I know our audience gets it and they're doing everything they can to help make sure we we're talking about in the future is a madam president-elect Kamala Harris and her transition team and I'd have to go through all of these game strategy and gaming out what could happen if Donald Trump gets back in. And so we're going to pick up with what happened to some of the lawyers that represented Donald Trump the first time around.

It's the when we come back from in our next break, it'll be the F around and find out edition who's your daddy edition. I know who's Rudy Giuliani's daddy. It's now Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss, the mother daughter team who got horribly doxxed and defamed and punitive damages awarded against them for $148 million. And now they're entitled to collect every last scrap of it

from the hide and backside of Rudy Giuliani. And finally, after this is now the third federal judge involved in this process, we now have an order. And we're on the clock with six more days, we're gonna talk about all of that and what what it means for Rudy Giuliani. But we're going to take another break again. How do you support us for those that are interested? If you're this deep into the podcast, you're interested. So let me tell you how to support us. It's on the pipes deep into the podcast, you're interested. So let me tell you how to support us. It's listening to the podcast on audio

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to try to make a Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss at least a little bit whole? Yeah, so look, Rudy Giuliani has defamed, basically he defamed the two election workers in Georgia making all sorts of horrible accusations about them that were totally debunked, totally unfounded. They testified really powerfully before the Jan 6 committee. They will be extremely powerful witnesses for Jack Smith if that case ever goes to trial. And just talking about how these lies, frankly, ruined their lives. Remember, they said that they were that they were passing, you know, votes from under the tip, pulling out votes from under the table.

And and and that the they claim the video showed this, but they were really just, I think, passing a mint from one to the other. One was one of an election volunteer. The other is an election worker. I mean, our system relies on just regular people like them and their mother daughter team. And for them to just all of a sudden be scapegoated by Rudy Giuliani and frankly,

to be made poster child children for fraud in the election when it was all lies, complete lies. They had death threats, They had to move. I mean, just what they talked about, what had happened to them was horrendous. And they went to the their case, went to court. They sued Rudy Giuliani for defamation. And Julie, you know, in any civil case, judges require you to exchange discovery and turn information over. and you have to do it.

And Giuliani just kept refusing, refused to turn over any information about his net worth, about what he had, what he didn't have, you know, just all the things that you have to turn over in a court process. And he was warned over and over and over and over again. And the judge ultimately just said, look, I'm holding you, I'm basically ruling against you and for the plaintiffs just as a sanction, which for those of us who practice criminal law,

that's just such a surprise that you can even do that because you can't do that in a criminal case. In a criminal case, you actually have to, it has to be on the merit. So it was just very surprising that you could do that, but it was great to see that somebody can't just absolutely avoid accountability. And so there was a finding and they ultimately got, I think, $148 million. So most of it was punitive damages. Some of it were compensatory damages. I think they got $2 million in legal fees. I think it was like $150 million, something like that. And then Rudy Giul is now they are in court

and they are in court where the judge is distributing these assets to them and is giving them pretty much everything except I think there's four World Series Yankee rings that he claims he gave to his son. And so they're still quibbling over that, as well as the fact that he has a home in Palm Beach and in Florida, you're not allowed to,

you can't make someone give up their home in this process, right? But you can take everything else. And they're pretty much taking everything else, furniture, this 1980 Mercedes that was once owned by Lauren Bacall, his TV. I mean, he has a signed Joe DiMaggio jersey. He had all these watches,

one given to him by his grandfather, by European presidents. I mean, it was really kind of seemed really weird that, you know, A, he had all the stuff and B, that it can just be handed over and they're going to put his apartment, his penthouse apartment in New York in receivership and the receiver will sell it and they'll be given, as you said, you know, 10 million dollars of their, of, you know, of his $10 and a half million estate. And it'll go, you know, they'll still be owed a lot more money, but they're gonna get everything he has.

And it's a huge punishment and deterrent to others who try to get away with this. Sorry, go ahead. No, no, I didn't mean to interrupt you. The receiver is actually Ruby Freeman and Che Moss. Rather than a higher receiver, the judge turned it is forcing, I love the poetic justice of this,

Rudy Giuliani's lawyers have to turn over the keys effectively to the co-op in New York, which is his apartment in the Upper East Side, directly to Ruby Freeman and Shae Moss for them to do with it what they will, as opposed to, this was the beauty of judge lineman, rather than wasting money that would only come out of Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss's ability to be made whole. Because what happens, and I don't know how much you've been involved with this in your career, your legal career, but I've done receivership

and I've been involved with receiverships and trustees being appointed at the liquidation of businesses and companies and hearings about that. And you know who makes a lot of the money and sucks the estate dry? Our other professionals. The law, by the time the lawyers, the accountants hired by the lawyer, the trustees hiring their and receiver hiring their own lawyers and accountants or maybe other experts, it all comes out of that pot of

money. It's not coming out of somewhere else. So he didn't want, Judge Lyman didn't want that. And he even denied Rudy. Rudy said, can we have a magistrate judge make some decisions if there's no no, there's no magistrate judge judge Lyman said I make all The decisions their order is seven days and I'm warning you now you're gonna turn over that Palm Beach County condo near Mar-a-Lago Which is worth maybe three million dollars if I find that you lied about You're having homestead protection You can only get homestead protection, you can only get homestead protection in Florida

is if you're a legitimate resident of Florida. And I'm not sure he qualifies as a legitimate resident of Florida to put a fence, a ring around his assets, particularly his home there. I mean, the judge says, don't do anything with it right now. You've got an order now not to dissipate assets

and preserve the assets, not waste the assets. And I'm gonna have a hearing at the end of the month about it. And if I find that you are not properly homestead protected in Florida, because you weren't a resident of Florida for this item, and it looks like you spent a lot of time in New York, and I haven't prejudged it yet, you're gonna be turning over the Palm Beach condo to them as well. And that's where the real value in the estate is. The watches are interesting and try to hold on to the grandfather's watch was interesting to watch, no pun intended, but the real bulk of the money is like 10 million.

That's the two pieces of real estate. And they're gonna have one of them in six days, and they're gonna have the other one, I think, soon after that because I don't think he can prove that he was a Florida resident. And I think he lied somewhere else, too. So can they make him homeless? Like, can you really take everything so that you can't? That's unbelievable to me. Yeah, you can't take your stove. Yeah, I mean, New York doesn't have a homestead protection law like that. But the one that we didn't really talk about is one of my favorites,

which is that he's been ordered to turn over and to give the claim to Ruby Freeman and Shae Moss of the alleged $2 million that he's owed by Donald Trump for attorney's fees for the 2020 and 2021 work, you know, the work that had him lose his two law licenses and get indicted in several places. He says, and the judge reminded him, you under oath at a creditors meeting with the trustee in which you swore under oath that you were owed money attorney's fees we've seen it reported as two million dollars from the Trump campaign. Okay, that claim which is an accounts receivable is now moving over to Ruby Freeman and shame us and then the judge did one other thing. He said, I find it to be the height of irony that you've asked me to delay the turnover of that claim because you're claiming it'll create chaos and mayhem and be election interference considering the thing that you did was arguably

election interference that got you to the point where you now owe this judgment. So the answer is no, you're going to turn it over now, not after the election, right now, in six days. So now we're going to have to be able to report. It's going to be great. We're going to be able to report on a demand letter first by Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss to the Trump campaign demanding $2 million turnover. So Donald Trump having to pay that. And if they don't get it, a lawsuit of Ruby Freeman and Shane Moss owning the claim against Donald Trump to get the two million. See, they made that decision early on, not to sue Donald Trump for defamation,

but look at this, Karen. They're gonna have the ability to get $2 million running with interest against Donald Trump from Rudy Giuliani. Why didn't they sue Trump for defamation? Tell me, why didn't they sue Trump? I never- They didn't wanna get caught up in the immunity problem

Yeah, I think Yeah, I guess you're right because presidential immunity in the civil context did exist if and and the statements he made he would be A question of whether he well, but he was a candidate at the time. I don't know the whole the whole thing Well, he was he was no he was yes. He was president and candidate. Yes, but he repeated it later. He repeated. Yeah, no, that's true. And but I think they they had the benefit. These are good lawyers at Wilkie, Far and Gallagher and some other places. I know, I know, I just I'm just curious. No, what I'm saying is they're good lawyers, and they had the opportunity to watch what happened to E. Jean Carroll. And they fight there. Ultimately, Robbie Kaplan, on behalf of E. Jean Carroll for that defamation case was able to prevail.

But I think they were like, you know what? Let's just get Rudy and and and but not just Rudy. People forget that they had claims again and settled with Newsmax and with a couple of other so this is not the first check that they're getting. They settled with some of, they just settled like a week or two ago with another alt right wing news organization that docks them. One, not one nation, one something settled with them. I think Newsmax settled with them. Another one just, so there's been a bunch of people that have had to settle with Ruby Freeman and Shane Lawson but it never will it will never thank you oan own thank you salty uh she was struggling there um they will never be made whole for the psychological damage that was done to them and their family where they had to leave their home under violent could you imagine

what what violent rhetoric was rained down upon them by MAGA to this day? And you know what? All they wanted to do is do their civic duty and work as election workers and count votes. And they can't ever do that ever again. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Yeah. So that's where we're at. You know what else is unbelievable? We've reached the end of our legal AF midweek edition. We can't do it without our audience and there's so much love that we share with our audience and we thank them for helping us to build legal AF into what it is today. I mean 50 million people a month know the answer to the question where to where should I go for legal and political analysis and commentary that's going to tell

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Saturday will be on, I'll be on with Ben Mycelis picking up for where we left off today. And then of course right back at it with Karen Friedman at Nifilo on next Wednesday. You help us in all the ways that we've talked about of course the new legal AF channel this trial is going to be on tomorrow you have your topic set for tomorrow Karen you want to sell that a little bit yeah I think we're gonna talk about what we didn't get a chance to talk about here which is Elon Musk and oh yeah and the Justice Department warning him that you, we've been talking about

it a lot and I've been doing a bunch of hot takes on it just to sound the alarm that I thought he is breaking the law. Well, I was happy to see the Justice Department sent him a letter saying, hey, paying people for votes and registering, you're crossing a line. So we're going to talk about that and a few other things that I will, that you're just going to have to that and a few other things that I will, that you're just going to have to tune in to watch. And we're going to talk about, there's a lot going on obviously.

And I mean, you know, we're still kind of, as you said, there's so much to talk about that you have to curate it for this, right? I mean, you know, are we going to talk about that? John Kelly, you know, that was the white house is longest serving chief of staff said he believes that Donald Trump is a fascist and frankly used to brag about being like Adolf Hitler. You know, we could talk about that. We could talk about, I mean, there's so much we could talk about.

We're still talking about which. You're still curating is what you're trying to say. Well, of course, but I, but I'm just, these are the types of things that we will talk about tomorrow. But those are just two of the types of things that you'll hear us talk about. I mean, look, Kathleen Rice brings a really unique

perspective because not only was she an elected prosecutor in Long Island, New York for years, she was also a federal prosecutor, but she's also a member of Congress and she was there on January 6th. So she is just someone who has this unique perspective like Adam Kinzinger, like other members of Congress that have come out and really talked about what it's like

and what it was like serving as a member of Congress under Donald Trump. And as you said, and the three of us were long-term public servants and prosecutors as well. So I look forward to batting these issues around with my friends and colleagues, Donya Perry and Kathleen Rice tomorrow. And Popak, we love when you come on the show.

I'll make semi-regular appearances. Miss Trial on Thursdays, Legal AF Wednesdays and Saturdays, only on the Midas Dutch Network. Shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal AFers.