Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump GETS SURPRISE He FEARED by Jack Smith FILING

Episode Date: September 24, 2024

In breaking news, the DOJ has informed the criminal court judge in the Trump DC Election Interference case that it needs later this week almost 200 pages to give her all the new evidence and facts against Trump along with thousands of pages of exhibits as she analyzes whether the new indictment against Trump can survive the Supreme Court’s immunity decision and instructions. Michael Popok of Legal AF explains why this is so devastating for Trump in having the voting public have evidence against him before the election, which explains why he is opposing it. Sign up at https://MoinkBox.com/LEGALAF right now and listeners of this show get FREE hot rolls in your first box. Visit https://meidastouch.com for more! Join the Legal AF Patreon: https://Patreon.com/LegalAF Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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DC election interference case in which the government has signaled to the judge and asked permission to file a 200 page brief related to immunity to prove that their new superseding indictment against Donald Trump survives the US Supreme Court's immunity decision and allows the judge to do the intensive fact analysis that the Supreme Court required her to do. So they're asking for a brief about 400% bigger than what they're normally allowed to file and that is something Donald Trump doesn't want. He has opposed of course the motion for extra time and he's asked the the court to give them until tomorrow to file their opposition. You know Donald Trump can't do anything quickly. What does this mean from a from a case perspective? It's bad news for

Donald Trump. First of all I don't know if the judge is going to give the government all of the 180 plus pages that they're asking for, where they've also already signaled that much of it will contain sensitive and confidential classified even information that needs to be filed under seal, but she's going to give them more than the standard 45 pages that you get in a run-of-the-mill garden variety case. It just makes sense. As the Department of Justice has reminded the judge, the Supreme Court put us in this

position. They informed the judge with remand instructions back to her after July 1st that determining whose characterizations may be correct and with respect to which conduct requires a close analysis of the indictments, extensive and interrelated allegations, that it's necessarily a fact bound nature of presidential immunity analysis, that the court has to get briefing at the trial level so that when it goes up to intensive appellate analysis, it survives. So look, the burden is on the government as always to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Now the burden is on them to have their superseding indictment survive the Supreme Court decision on immunity from July 1st.

And so they've asked for more pages to do it. Let me read to you from it, but I'm also telling you upfront in this hot take, Donald Trump opposes this. He doesn't want to see 180 pages before the election of airing of new evidence against him, no way. In fact, he did not like it. He's been trying to argue against it in every filing since the ruling by Judge Chutkin as far back as September 5th,

where Judge Chutkin in setting the briefing schedule said, rejected Donald Trump's argument that he should go first with the first brief, because the way it works in, whoever goes first gets two briefs generally. I mean, the court can say I only need one brief, but generally it's two briefs. It's the opening brief, there's an opposition brief in the middle by the other party, and then there's what we call a reply brief at the end. That's kind of standard practice in federal court and state court for when you're filing motions. Here the judge adopted the Department of Justice

argument that they have to defend their own indictment so they should go first. So if they're going first they get two briefs and the way it works in terms of timing is also terrible for Donald Trump. I've done this on a prior hot take but let me just do it quickly here. The first brief is due on the 26th of September. That's why the Department of Justice is asking for more pages now. They're like, we've already substantially written our brief that's due in a few days,

and we know it's gonna hit 180 pages. Maybe we can get it down to 170, Judge, but it's 180 pages, and that's way more than 45. But we have to do that. Supreme Court told us to, effectively. That's due on the 26th. Donald Trump's opposition brief of a similar number of pages. I mean, I would argue that if the government gets

180 pages, Donald Trump should get 180 pages. OK, that's fair. That's symmetrical. I think that's where the judge is going to end up going, giving an equal portion of something with a 1 in front of it. I don't know, 140, 150, 170, something like that. And then give Trump the exact same amount of pages on the other side to defend. Trump's brief,

17th of October. Department of Justice gets one more brief six days before the election on the, on October 29th, right before Halloween and five days, six days before the election. They get one more brief of some amount of pages. I don't know if that's 50 or 60 pages of continued evidence being presented against Donald Trump to the American people. Here's what they said in the filing that we just got our hands on.

They start with what I just argued to you, that they have to do this. The Department of Justice has to file a lot of pages because the way the Supreme Court has chastised Judge Chutkin for what she did the first time and that they need the benefit of briefing and they need to know all the evidence and all the context and all of that. So here's what they said to that. They said on the bottom of page one, to fulfill the Supreme Court's remand directive, that's back to the trial judge, in a status hearing, the government proposed filing an opening immunity brief with a

comprehensive discussion and description of both pled and unpled facts, meaning things that weren't in the indictment that they can tell the judge for context and things that would be presented in trial to a jury. See, not everything that's in an indictment is what is exactly going to be presented to the jury. Of course, there's thousands and thousands of pages of more evidence and witness statements and testimony that aren't in the indictment. The indictment doesn't have to lay out the entire trial. It just has to put appropriately, constitutionally, the defendant on notice in our world of due process

of what the crimes, the charges, and the evidence against him is in general. And then they get the evidence behind the scenes in a disclosure process that happens to prepare for trial. So they say, all right, Judge, you know we were going to give you a pled and unpled facts and that all the parties in the court know the issues the court needs to consider to make this fact bound determination that the Supreme Court has required. The government at the time in September told the judge it's going to contain substantial number of exhibits as well.

And on page two, the court has been directed to conduct, that's the trial court, a detailed fact bound and thorough analysis of the government's case to make appropriate immunity determinations. Because the court will make determinations in the first instance, that will be subject to exacting appellate review by the Supreme Court ultimately, it is essential that the court ensure that the record in support of its determination is complete. The government believes that a comprehensive brief by the government will be of great assistance to the court in creating that robust record,

and the government thus seeks leave to exceed the typical limit for a single motion which is 45 pages. They say they've already substantially drafted it, which makes sense it's due in three days, and it won't go over 180, Judge. We only need 135 more pages. The government estimates that roughly half of its motion will consist, listen to this, half of its motion, so about 90 pages, will consist of a detailed factual proffer. That's the airing of the evidence to the American people, the voter, before the election that Donald Trump wants to avoid.

And that extensive footnote citations to an exhibit appendix increase the size, the motion size by more than 30 pages. Just that alone. Did you know that four companies control over 80% of the U.S. meat industry? I had no idea. These companies are using mobster-like tactics to crush American family farms, and with the additives they're putting into our food, Americans are stuck with sketchy meat. And would it surprise you to know that 99% of the chicken, 95% of the pork, and 78% of

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or the lawyers. Defense counsel opposes the motion, of course. They're like, it's 45 pages. Here's what their argument's gonna be in when we see their paper. Judge, they don't need more than 45 pages. They don't need to put in any evidence. They've got to defend the four quarters of the indictment

and they can't put in more evidence and they can't do a showing and it goes beyond what the Supreme Court has required and you're committing reversible error and whining, whining, whining, and whining, which will be rejected. I don't know if the judge is gonna give the government the full 180.

She might think, you know what, you could use your proofreading pen, your editorial pen, and you can kind of get this down to, how about 150? I don't want to read 180, about 150. She might bargain a little bit and then impose a slightly smaller limit, but she's going to give them more than 45 pages. And by the way, she's going to give Trump more than 45 pages.

She's going to have a complete record of like 300 pages of briefing with thousands of pages of exhibits attached. And then she's going to have a complete record of like 300 pages of briefing with thousands of pages of exhibits attached, and then she's going to have to dive into that and make her record that the Supreme Court has required her to make. And that's going to take a minute too. Let me manage some expectations. Once this briefing process is over with the final brief filed by the Department of Justice

on the 29th of October, don't expect a fast decision. This is going to take her one month, two months at least to make this ruling. She's got other work, by the way. The Trump versus US, US versus Trump is not her only case. She's an active federal, not senior status judge. She probably has 200 cases or more on her docket. But this is important and she'll get to it, but I wouldn't expect a decision until January, maybe before the inauguration, hopefully of Kamala Harris. But that's gonna be like that.

And then there's gonna, the loser's gonna take an appeal and we're gonna be through 2025 on this issue. This is one of the reasons just to manage expectations and to do a little teaching moment here. A lot of the things that the last criminal president we had, Richard Nixon, did wrong got reflected in cases that went up until 1980. It was like 1974, 75. He was gone by 72. He was gone by 73. But there were still cases, 74, 75, 76 at the Supreme Court level because of all the bad things and the cleanup behind it. So that's going to happen here too. We're going to see cases with Trump's name on it with rulings in 25, maybe 26 and beyond.

So they also let the court know in terms of the content that's going to be in this brief of 180 pages on bottom of page two, for the court's awareness, they tell, they tell Judge Chuckin, our opening brief for the government and its exhibits contain a substantial amount of sensitive material, that's a defined term in this case, as defined by a protective order that the judge already put in place to cover classified and sensitive information from the public seeing it, at least through the trial. Consistent with that protective order, the government's going to file another motion, they inform the court, for leave to file under seal, to seal, that so only the court sees it,

and the other side. Just to be clear, if something is sealed, the other party sees it, and the lawyers. So Trump gets to see it, the lawyers get to see it, the judge gets to see it, and their staff, and of course the Department of Justice, just that the public doesn't get to see it at the moment. Eventually things get unsealed and we find out about things after trial for instance, and we'll be able to report on them as well. So they're saying that they want to file things under seal and they'll put an unredacted copy of the motion, you know, blacked out and all that, and propose redacted versions and then the court can look at that and direct the Department of Justice as to what she wants redacted and what she does not want redacted. Redacted meaning putting

black lines electronically or with a pen through a document so that it's the public can't see that information for now. Because of the time the extensive and time-consuming logistics about finalizing the brief and proposed redacted public versions, the government respectfully requests that this court move on this motion quickly. Signed, the lawyers for the Department of Justice, this time signed by Tom Wyndham and Molly Gaston, the two special assistants, special counsels

who work for Jack Smith. That's where we're at. We're gonna get a fast ruling by Judge Chuckman. And you heard what my prediction is about. She's gonna grant most of it, if not all of it, and give Donald Trump the equal amount. And then there's gonna be, I don't know if we're going to get the ruling before Trump has an opportunity to submit an opposition, and he wants to submit the opposition by tomorrow

at 5 p.m. I'm pretty sure she'll give him to put in whatever paper. Here's my prediction on the paper, and then I'll do a hot take on it. It's going to be, this case should be immediately dismissed promptly. The immunity decision requires this court without any further delay to get rid of this case and don't do any more work on it. Pencils down, judge, something ridiculous. The judge is going to say, I don't know what Supreme Court decision you read, but that's not my job here. That's not what I'm going to be doing or the process that I've established. It'll be some version of that. We'll have a good laugh at it when it comes in and I'll report on it here on Legal AF or on our new companion Legal AF YouTube channel in collaboration with Midas Touch Network. What else? You go to YouTube, you go to at Legal AF MTN,, all one word, legal AFMTN.

And there I'm gonna be doing in addition to the work I do here on the Midas Touch Network, in parallel to it, I'll be doing new original content at the intersection of law and politics, some law, some politics, some both. It's gonna be me. We're doing interviews, we're doing a new Supreme Court overview show called Unprecedented.

I'll have a revolving door of anchors that you love and commentators, some you know, some you don't know, all on the new Legal AF channel. Free subscribe and help us get to 100,000 before Halloween. That's our goal, 100,000 free subscribers before Halloween. We're already halfway there. Please help us with that, Bill. You helped Legal AF and the Midas Touch Network get to its almost three and a half million. Now we got another channel, Pro Democracy, to support over there that I'll be curating at Legal AF MTN.

So until my next hot take, until my next Legal AF podcast, until my next original content for the Legal AF MTN YouTube channel, this is Michael Popak reporting. In collaboration with the Midas Touch Network, we just launched the LegalN YouTube channel. This is Michael Popak reporting.