Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump & Hegseth Panic as Plot Collapses

Episode Date: May 11, 2026

Sensing a major loss before a DC federal appeals panel in support of Senator Mark Kelly and his First Amendment rights to remind active duty military not to follow Trump’s illegal orders, DOD Sec Hegseth is conjuring up new charges against Mark Kelly. Popok is on the scene and gives an overview of the appeals court oral argument and the new allegations, which he debunks in his latest hot take. Boxie: For a limited time, get 30% off your order when you head to https://Boxiecat.com/LEGALAL and use code LEGALAF. Subscribe:  @LegalAFMTN  Visit https://meidasplus.com for more! Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast Cult Conversations: The Influence Continuum with Dr. Steve Hassan: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show The Ken Harbaugh Show: https://meidasnews.com/tag/the-ken-harbaugh-show Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.cair, every style, every home. Just like his boss, Donald Trump, Department of Defense Secretary Pete Hegsep, can't take what looks to be a losing hand at an appeals court as an answer.

Instead, he's going back after Mark Kelly, the senator from Arizona war hero, space shuttle commander and now claiming that he's going to start an investigation all over again because he thinks Mark Kelly, quote unquote, violated his oath again. Yes, but the three-judge panel, at least two of those judges in a case brought by Mark Kelly to defend his First Amendment rights as a retired member of the military, to look the military in the eye and tell them that they have an obligation, which they are taught in their academies and taught by the Code of Military Justice, not to follow illegal orders. And from that ad, with five other members of Congress,

we have an appeal that looks like Mark Kelly is about to win. I'm going to play you some clips from the appeal from the judges, judges Pallard and Pan especially, and tell you why I think this is going to be a winner for Mark Kelly. And even Pete Hexssef knows it because he's starting some new commotion about bringing another investigation because Mark Kelly told the American people on Sunday morning talk shows

that which we already know that there's a depletion of the munitions and weapons pile for the United States in fighting the war in Iran. That's why they're going to Congress for more money. That's something that's publicly known. But to Pete Hanks said,

oh, you must have learned that from a secret briefing. No, he learned it from listening to you. I'm Michael Popock. You're on the Midas Dutch Network in Legal A.F. I'm traveling today because today's the day we receive the Webby Awards for the best news podcast, Legal AF, two awards, and the best new podcast in news, the intersection with Michael Popak, me. You'll see photos later today and hopefully some video from down from the event, holding three, I feel like a Grammy Award winning winner, holding three Webby's. Let's get to the

story of Mark Kelly. Mark Kelly, a decorated fighter pilot in the Navy. husband of Gabby Gifford, who hopefully people know, was going to be probably a senator herself as she ran for office. She was brutally shot and barely recovered, but not enough to ever go back into public life. Mark Kelly, space shuttle commander as well, Navy pilot in the Iraq War. He also is on the Senate Armed Services Committee, which does oversight over Pete Hexeth.

You often see Hegsef battling it out. Seth battling it out in a losing battle with Senator and former Captain Kelly about these issues. But after in November, around the time of the Caribbean military strikes of fishing boats in the Caribbean, Mark Kelly and five other members of Congress, including Senator Elisa Slotkin, created a 92nd personal service announcement, infomercial, reminding the troops that they are not to follow illegal orders under their code, under their oath, which is exactly what they're taught in school, by the way. But Hegset didn't like that. Even though Pete Hegsef himself, I'll show you a clip, had a very similar statement that he made when he was in, when he was teaching at one of these war

colleges. Peg Seth decides he's going to admonish Captain, retired Captain Kelly. He's going to take away some of his pension. He's going to demote him. He's going to censure him. And Mark Kelly ran to court and got a district court judge, federal district court judge, to stop it. Hence the appeal. Now, just to frame it before we get to what happened on the appeal of the oral argument, here's the 90-second clip. Don't give up the ship. Play the clip. I'm Senator Alyssa Slotkin. Senator Mark Kelly, Representative Chris Deluzio. Congresswoman Maddie Goodlander. Representative Chrissy Hoolehan. Congressman Jason Crow. I was a captain in the United States Navy.

Former CIA officer. Former Navy. Former paratrooper and army ranger. Former intelligence officer. Former Air Force. We want to speak directly to members of the military and the intelligence community who take risks each day to keep Americans safe.

We know you are under enormous stress and pressure right now. Americans trust their military. But that trust is at risk. This administration is pitting our uniform military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens. Like us, You all swore an oath.

To protect and defend this Constitution. Right now, the threats to our Constitution aren't just coming from abroad but from right here at home. Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders. You can refuse illegal orders. You must refuse illegal orders.

No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution. We know this is hard. And that it's a difficult time to be a public servant. But whether you're serving in the CIA, the Army, or Navy, the Air Force. Your vigilance is critical. And know that we have your back.

Because now, more than ever. The American people need you. We need you to stand up for our laws. Our Constitution and who we are as Americans. Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up the ship.

Now that's exactly what Pete Hankseth said in his own presentation to a war college. When he had less gray hair, it was just a Fox News analyst or whatever he is. Play that clip. I do think there have to be consequences for abject war crimes. If you're doing something that is just completely unlawful and ruthless, then there is a consequence for that.

That's why the military said it won't follow unlawful orders from their commander-in-chief. There's a standard. There's an ethos. There's a belief that we are above what so many things that our enemies or others would do. So what's the difference? What's the difference? that because you're both retired military at that point. And that was the core of the oral argument. What to do about retired members of the military who are also senators with their own speech

and debate privilege, their own First Amendment privilege, providing oversight over that military. Are they bound and gag forevermore as if they're in the military? Because look, we'll all admit that when you're in the military under the First Amendment, you are not going to be able to freely speak out. against the chain of command or to undermine morale or a spree to court. And if you're just a regular citizen, never serving in the military, there's no limits on your First Amendment rights. The question here is, if you're formerly in the military, if you're retired,

do you have the ability to freely talk to the military as, and that which is consistent with the code of military justice? Yes or no? And that was at the heart of the matter. See, the lawyers for the Department of Defense, they relied on a case Perry versus Levy from 1974, but that had to do with an active duty captain, Captain Levy, who was telling black soldiers they should not serve in Vietnam. They should go AWOL. That's different. They're inside the military, breaching the chain of command. Captain Kelly, former Captain Kelly, is Senator Kelly, outside. And that was the issue that the judges have. Their position is we're in a whole new world. We've got to analyze what happens when a retired member of the military is speaking out to the military active duty. That conversation.

How does the First Amendment and the law apply to that? So they're going to be making new law here, but clearly it's going to be in favor of Kelly. Anybody that listened to the oral argument in completion like I did, you got to come away with Pan and Pilar are going to vote in favor on that panel. Now, whether Karen Henderson, a George W. Bush appointee, I don't know. She's more concerned with, well, if he can be brought back into the military and court marshal, why can't they also restrict his First Amendment speech? Because they can't. And I don't even think the Supreme Court is going to find that.

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so they know I sent you. And just to recall First Amendment and speech and debate privilege issues here, here's Mark Kelly going after HegSeth in the last couple of weeks during an oversight committee hearing. Play the clip. I saw your hearing yesterday. And I'm going to give you one more chance to address a question here.

It's my understanding that the definition of no quarter is that legitimate offers of surrender will be refused or that detainees will be executed. Is that your understanding of the definition? Well, the only entity that would kill detainees or target civilians is the Iranians, and they're the ones being crushed. So you- Iranian military and their military capability. The question is, do you understand- I disagree completely with your articulation? No, do you understand the definition that I just read you because that's the definition

from your department's law of war manual? Is that your understanding? And I'm going to just get to the point here. We fight to win and we follow the law, Senator. Okay, so your quote was, we will keep pushing, keep advancing, no quarter, no mercy for our enemies. And yesterday, you did not clarify whether you stand by this statement. So I'm going to give you another opportunity to clarify if that is what you meant. Do you stand by that statement you made on March 13th?

We have untied the hands of our warfighters. We fight to win, and we follow the law. law. Okay, so you're not clarifying. So you stand by that statement. So you're the Secretary of Defense. The things you say matter and your response here right now makes it clear to the American people exactly why you are not right for this job. It makes it clear to our enemy, Senator. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That's his job. That's his job. Mark Kelly was so confident coming out of the hearing from a couple of days ago, as I am, that he said this, coming out of the oral argument. Play the clip.

Last year, I said something that the president didn't like. It was pretty simple then, and it still is, that service members need to follow the law. And in response, the president said I should be prosecuted and hanged. Then he tried to throw me in jail. And then Pete Hegesaf, the Secretary of Defense, tried to censure me, demote me, and take away my pension, all for something I said that I had the right to say as a senator, as a veteran, but most importantly, as an American. If you say something that the

president or this administration does not like, they're going to come after you. The president is trying to silence us. And I can't think of anything. anything that's more un-American. Which has now led Pete Hegseth to try to go after Kelly again, knowing that this is a losing battle. He's picking a new fight. He said, oh, oh, he posted, oh, are you violating your oath again? Because you said on television that we're depleting our ammunition?

No, any idiot, any novice, amateur follower of the media knows or the military knows you're depleting your ammunition and your and your munitions. Here's, here's Kelly saying that on television. When it comes to making America ready to defend our allies and ourselves, does what you describe basically make it impossible for a Democrat like yourself to say no to that request from the White House for one and a half trillion dollars in defense spending? Well, first of all, let me just back up a second. Things like this, nothing is in There are always other options. During the Obama administration, the Iran deal, the JCPOA kept the enrichment at a lower level. Donald Trump tore that up.

That's the reason we're here, but this also was not inevitable. There were other things that we could do. The $1.5 trillion request from this administration, it's outrageous. When I got to the Senate five and a half years ago, the defense budget was just over $700 billion. Now they're asking for twice as much money. It's nearly the amount that the rest of the world pays for its defense. And as I pointed out in that, and I pointed, as I pointed out in that hearing, there's stuff in there like Golden Dome. The physics on that stuff is really, really hard.

I'm very confident we're going to spend a lot of money and we're going to get a system that doesn't work. There are other things in there we do not need. I mean, they need to submit a defense budget that makes sense for the moment we're in. And now here's Kelly reminding Uh the hecksef that he said the exact same thing publicly that that that he's now claiming is a violation of the oath for having been briefed as a senator. Play the clip of Hexeth saying the exact same thing.

How many years to replenish? That's the question. I think that's exactly the right question to Senator because the time frame we were existing under was unacceptable. Okay. Well, tell me. And what this budget does. I mean, months and years. What?

Years. I mean, we're building. new plants in real time. So just to replace what we have expended. I said months. And then you said years. But it depends on the weapon system, but two to three, four X of what we have today. So yes, we're dealing with a reality under the previous administration of what they sent to Ukraine

and what they allocated elsewhere. Okay, I got it. And we fired years worth of munitions. And it is clear that these are being expended to try to achieve some objective. That was the plan. But Mr. Secretary, this war is stuck. The Strait of Hormuz is closed. The Iranian regime is in place.

The nuclear material still in their hands. Americans are being crushed by higher costs, and it's not clear to them at all what the goal of this war is. So again, this is another page out of the Donner, Donald Trump playbook, tiresome hackneyed, dog-eared playbook that we're all tired and fatigued about, which is you gaslight, you do the exact same thing the other party does, but you claim they're doing something wrong. You don't acknowledge that you had said it or done it.

And then you try to make this a cover to grab the new cycle because you know you're going to be getting a bad result out of court. Sound familiar? But we know it here on legal a. F. and Midas touch. And we follow it closely. Thank you for following us closely and making us the Webby Award winners, the People's Voice Award for Best News Podcast, Legal A.F, top law and politics podcast. I host with Karen Freeman, Ignifalo and Ben Myceles, and Best New News Podcast in the Intersection, my podcast on Tuesday nights on the Midas Touch Network. Coming on three webbies tonight, there'll be video.

You'll be able to watch it on Substack that I'll be posting later today. Thank you for that. In the meantime, take a moment, hit the free subscribe button here and on LegalAF YouTube. Until my next report, I'm Michael Popak. Can't get your fill of Legal AF. Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the substack. You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do call, wait for it, morning A.F. What else? all the other contributors from legal a layoff are there as well we got some new reporting we got

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