Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump LEGAL NIGHTMARE is BACK as Campaign CRASHES

Episode Date: August 11, 2024

Ben Meiselas and Michael Popok are back for the weekend edition of the top-rated Legal AF podcast. The anchors discuss and debate: the ins and outs of how the criminal court system continues to bring Trump to justice; how Judge Chutkan will determine if the DC election interference criminal case against Trump will survive the Supreme Court immunity decision; Republican appointed judges responding to Trump’s lies about Jan 6 in their sentencing of some of the most violent MAGA; why the Arizona Attorney General didn’t indict Trump in the fake elector scandal; and so much more at the intersection of law and politics. Join the Legal AF Patreon: https://Patreon.com/LegalAF Thanks to our sponsors: Fum: Head to https://TryFum.com/legalaf and get a FREE GIFT with the JOURNEY PACK today when you use code LEGALAF MD Hearing: To get our $297 when you buy a PAIR offer, including a free charger, head to https://ShopMDHearing.com and use code LEGALAF. Rocket Money: Cancel unwanted subscriptions – and manage your expenses the easy way – by going to https://RocketMoney.com/legalaf Zbitoics: Head to https://zbiotics.com/LegalAF to get 15% off your first order when you use LEGALAF at checkout. Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash y amex. Benefits vary by card, other conditions apply. Let me just state some facts at the top of our show, Michael Popock. It's August, 2024. Donald Trump is a convicted felon. He was found liable by a jury in 34 felony counts.

Donald Trump was found liable in a civil case for sexual assault and for defamation. Donald Trump's organization, the Trump organization, was convicted of over a dozen felonies. Donald Trump, his kids, the Trump organization, and other entities related there too, were found liable for fraud and a sum total of somewhere around $500 million has to be paid by Donald Trump for the fraud that he committed.

It is August of 2024 and all of those things happened yet the corporate media did not seem to think that any of that moved the needle. Meanwhile, the Midas Touch Network and Legal Left continued to grow simply by saying, you know those things? Pretty, pretty egregious. And so when we talk about today's developments, like what's next with special counsel Jack Smith, what's this stipulation that was filed and the latest order by Judge Tanya Chutkin, are there going to be many trials before the November election?

I want to talk about the fact that where are we in August 2024, when lots of people were saying, none of those things that I mentioned at the outset of the show were ever going to happen. When we talk about what's going on in the Arizona state prosecutions of the fake electors and how apparently we learned this week, Michael Popak, that the grand jury wanted to indict Donald Trump, but were provided information to dissuade them from indicting Donald Trump by the attorney general who I think strategically didn't want that case to be about Trump, given that there are all these other cases against Donald Trump.

But I want to not forget the fact that Donald Trump is a convicted felon found liable for sexual assault. The Trump organization was found criminally liable for fraud. And the Trump organization found civilly liable for fraud. And I also want to talk about on this show, Michael Popak, the sentencing of a January 6th insurrectionist by a Reagan appointed judge. And this Reagan appointed judge brings us back to a level of normalcy where he calls out the insurrection for what it is and what a dastardly act, what

a horrific day it was and holding these insurrectionists accountable. We're going to talk about all of that and more here on Legal AF. Michael Popock, how is your weekend going so far? I think it's great. I like the way you frame that one because we put this show together four years ago, not knowing what we would expect, but believing there was a market, there was a need to talk honestly, truthfully, candidly, authentically about that intersection of law and politics. And we've been consistent in our coverage of it. There's not a, we literally have not, except for one time in four and a half years, we've not missed a show either midweek or

on the weekend, not because of ego, but because of demand. And we just feel that the audience is comforted and soothed, is the wrong word, is empowered. And if anything, the Midas Touch Network and Legal AF is people powered. It's Legal AF are powered, it's Midas Mighty powered. Empowered by the information that we provide and the ways that the legal political hacks that we provide, sometimes talking about legal hacks like Judge

Cannon and others, to help make sense of it all. It's complicated. You and I joined an honorable profession and one of the reasons I did, and I'm sure you did too, one of the reasons was I needed the mental challenge. I get bored easily and I wanted a career that would stimulate me. Now I've been able to combine it with you on Legal AF and Ambitus Touch, but doing something that's for me, God's work, which is the defense of democracy. And these developments that we're going to talk about, the attorney generals, and I've said this on other hot takes and on other Legal AFs, watch out for the attorney generals because they are not just cleaning up behind the elephant of the Department of Justice

and the Supreme Court and doing the hard work of bringing the co-conspirators of Donald Trump to justice. But the Department of Justice under Merrick Garland, ultimately under Joe Biden and Kamala Harris has a lot of work left to be done about Jan 6th. It's not just the thousand or more that have already been brought to justice. They're still investigating. They're still bringing people in. And if Donald Trump were to return to power, people like David Dempsey that you and I are going to talk about today, one of the most heinous, violent, Jan 6th insurrectionists at the most violent of locations, he'll be let out of his jail cell. I said on a hot take about this, this isn't Arkham mental

asylum like in Batman. Donald Trump's a joker, but he's not the joker. He's not supposed to be letting all of these people out of jail and have them reassemble at his foot at a Jan six choir. These are dangerous criminals. And thank God we have people like Royce Lamberth, who's a Reagan appointed judge who with history and with the gray hair that comes with being around on this earth for 60 or 70 years, calls it the way he sees it in a way that the MAGA justices and others don't. But I think at the end of this show, I think people, you know, it's sort of, there's a lot of sausage making that goes on, not just with not just with Department of Justice and lawmaking, but also on this show. But by the time we land this plane, I think people will be empowered by

the information we give them and the straight way that we provide it. I can't think of a better way to kick it off than the way you just framed it. You know, and one of the things Michael Popak that I thought was, you know, such a powerful reminder of these enduring values and principles in our democracy is, you know, as you mentioned, the Reagan appointed judge talking about those principles,

but how about in Glendale, Arizona, on Friday in that PAC stadium with vice president Kamala Harris, she was joined by her running mate, governor Tim Walz. They had on stage the mayor of Mesa, Arizona, John Giles. Mesa, Arizona is one of the most conservative cities in the United States, 36th largest city in the United States. Mayor Giles is a conservative Republican, and he gave a speech and said, Maga poses a threat to these enduring principles and our constitution.

You know, when he says, I'm putting country over party, and I'm supporting Vice President Kamala Harris, just as an aside, you know, I litigated one of my last cases as a practicing lawyer in Mesa, Arizona, um, I represented the family of someone who was shot and killed in Mesa, Daniel Shaver. People may remember it was a high profile police shooting case. Um, and so I have a lot of experience with Mesa, Arizona, knowing how conservative of a city that is. And John Giles, the mayor, even throughout that litigation, was a very well-respected person. And to see him come out

there and say, look, I'm supporting Vice President Kamala Harris is so powerful putting country over party because these legal principles to me never really should have ever been, oh, Democrat or Republican. I just thought when I went to law school, precedents like Roe v. Wade were precedents. Precedents like Chevron deference and respecting the ability of agencies

to regulate in common sense ways, pollution and fraud and things like that, that that just was something that was always going to exist. I thought the Civil Rights Act was always going to be here. The Voting Rights Act was always going to be here. But now we've got right-wing Supreme Court justices who are overturning precedent and then going on right-wing propaganda networks and kind of bragging about it. Like, did you see this pop-up Neil Gorsuch? Right wing Supreme Court Judge Trump appointee.

He went on Fox and he did a hot, I did a hot take on it. And he gave it and he gave an interview saying, honestly, I think we're doing a really good job. But whenever someone says honestly, they're usually not being honest, but here he is. Let me just show you this portion. Like when have we heard about Supreme court justices going on, not just any network too, but the network that was found liable for defamation and lying about the 2020 election, like he's intentionally sending a middle finger to law and order into

the American people. Watch this. Fine. Well, I think the courts do a pretty good job. I'll be honest with you, Sandra. You ask us to decide the 70 hardest cases in the country every year, cases where the lower courts have disagreed. And there are nine of us.

Can you get nine of your colleagues to agree on where to go to lunch? Right now and we've been appointed by five different presidents over 30 years And we are able to reach a unanimous judgment in these hard cases about 40% of the time. You hear that? Now that's the same figure as it was in about 1945 when Franklin Roosevelt had appointed eight of the nine justices of the Supreme Court. Okay, now you say, well, what about those divided cases, those six threes? Fine. Well, the six threes this term, only about half of them are the ones you're thinking

about. The others are more scrambled groupings. According to the New York Times last term, in 45% of ideologically divided cases, whatever that means, I agreed with what the Times called the liberal result. That's the court I know. And that those quote ideological cases, six to three, it's about a third of our docket this last year. And again, that's about the same number as it was in 1945. So really, my experience at this court is nothing changes. Which brings me to another point. That's not our experience as we the people. You overturned

Roe v. Wade. You basically abolished the Voting Rights Act. You basically took away the ability for colleges to promote diversity on campus. You basically took away the ability for colleges to promote diversity on campus. You basically took away the separation of church and state. You took away Chevron deference and abolished agencies. So Pope Pott just gaslighting us on a network that lied about the 2020 election. Let me let me jump in on that one. Right. Gorsuch has a nasty habit as he's moved to the alt-right, has formed a reliable alliance with Thomas and Alito in a way that I never thought. He was sort of hovering in the middle of the center-right for a long, long time. And now that's occupied by Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. And they become the swing votes as Gorsuch has left planet earth and

moved over to the right, right wing. And when he, his nasty little habit, two things, two tells that he has, if you're a poker player, when he says during oral argument or worse in a, an opinion, the facts don't matter. Let's not get bogged down in the facts. He means that means run for the exits. That means he's going to be untethered in his analysis. In the record that has been brought before him. And there are always except when there are courts of original jurisdiction was almost never. They're appellate courts. They're supposed to be reviewing the record below and the facts below, and the facts are supposed to matter. Otherwise, it's just an advisory opinion

or it's just the Supreme Court making law, which is exactly what they accuse the other side of doing. So when he says facts don't matter, look out. And when he starts talking about statistics, hoping that the viewers' eyes will glass over the way that interviewer for Fox just did, and says, well, there are 70 of the hardest cases. And then when you deduct the ones where we agreed and then you leave and then you subtract

and then you minus and then you square root, we end up in 1945. He is glossing over the reality, which is what you just started to talk about, of what they have done because the substance, we don't care about the numbers, we care about the substance. If they only got one case wrong because of the MAGA right pull of the court, that's one too many. And if that one case is always about, it's always white guys telling women how to run their bodies. It's always a reproductive rights case or a gun case or a tearing down the wall between church and state case. But he wants to mask and mask over

that wallpaper over that by saying, but look at all the places that we agree on things that don't matter to the average American, some sort of administrative law issue, some sort of, you know, fringe issue that doesn't affect the day to day life, or more importantly, why people signed up to be Americans, why people signed up to be patriots in this country. This Supreme Court and their right wing, which he so blithfully refers to as, well, occasionally six to three, it's like going to lunch, can you get nine of your colleagues to go to lunch, and just does it in such a? Insulting way sticking the sticking his thumb in the eye and of the American people and putting his boot on the throat of women Especially and the American people it's just it's the callous disregard

For what the Supreme Court and the right wing now led by Gorsuch Alito and Thomas are doing To the average American and that they are completely out of lockstep Supreme Court and the right wing now led by Gorsuch, Alito and Thomas are doing to the average American and that they are completely out of lockstep with mainstream America about morals and values and they don't even care about it. Alito will be heard to say frequently during oral argument and even in his writings, his opinions, he'll be heard to say, the implications or ramifications of what our ruling is today is of no great concern, because they're locked in an ivory hermetically sealed tower of the Federalist Society making. And this is the result, you and I, and the

peons and the minions below, this is what we get left with. And then they'll say that, or Gorsuch will posit out loud ways for Donald Trump to be benefited. Maybe he could self-pardon. Maybe he could sell pardons. Have you thought about that? It's like they're telegraphing and signaling, bring us a case in which Donald Trump pardons himself and we will likely grant it. And it's just this callousness, Ben, that drives me mad. Yeah. And they cover it up, as you just saw, with jocularity on a friendly, what they see as friendly environment. And to your point, what I said on my hot take was, you want to be neutral.

You want to not go to the state of the union because you don't want to look political. You want to act like you're holier than thou, then go on F and C-span. No one has ever attacked C-span for being, no one watches it, but nobody attacked C-span for being blue or red or purple. Then go on there if you want your message heard. Stop selling your book and then trying to, like you said, gaslight the American people into believing that they're doing, they're just doing the same thing they've done every year and we all get, kumbaya bullshit. And they structure the cases that they take so that they can say, look, we agreed on all of these, but so overwhelmingly there was agreement.

Right. Well, then, you know, you, you plan that so you can say that, but then you've just taken away monumental freedoms. The quantity doesn't matter. It's a thousand things that you agree with doesn't make a difference if one time you take away women's reproductive rights. I like that analysis you're making, which is take the 70, and they're calculated in adding, as you're saying, let's say they add 40 or 50, they know they're gonna be nine zero.

Like there's not gonna be any objection to these. And that is the wallpaper over what they really wanna do, which is to F with your life. And especially if you're a woman and voting rights and disenfranchisement, focus on the 20. That's what we work, focus on the 10. That's the one that rock your world and that have to be changed.

So look, not that we are here promoting reasons to vote blue on November 5th, but here's one. If Donald Trump gets re-elected, and I shudder to think what will happen, but this is what will happen. That Supreme Court will be locked into a right-wing alt-right mode for the next 30 years, unchangeable. He'll get at least one or two more picks, and we're done. If Kamala Harris and Tim Walz get in, we've got a chance at a five to four progressive Democrat view to rebalance and recalibrate that court.

And that is what's on the line. That's why Elizabeth Warren so smartly says the Supreme Court is on the ballot in November along with women's rights, along with reproductive rights and everything else. That's why I mentioned a few minutes ago, John Giles, the conservative mayor of the conservative city in Arizona, Mesa, because having the experience of litigating there, when someone like a John Giles and myself, a John Giles and a vice president, Kamala Harris can say, whoa, whoa, whoa,

we are coming together for our democracy. It isn't so much, you know, a normal political race as it is the preservation of the very system that, um, makes the American judicial system work. I mean, just take a look at what Donald Trump's been emailing to his supporters. Donald Trump, before he gave that incredibly bizarre speech in Montana, he goes, in four hours, I step on stage and deliver dangerously liberal Kamala Harris, the worst defeat of her political career.

She thought I'd quit when her regime had my home raided with deadly force. Donald Trump was not even there in Mar-a-Lago when the search took place and he's furthering this lie and conspiracy that there was a deadly force order to try to take him out and kill him, which he's inciting political violence. Then he tells his supporters, she thought I'd quit after being wrongfully

convicted in a Soviet style show trial. And then he goes, and the biggest insult of all, she thought she could turn you against me and steal away my best supporters. When he goes, a Soviet style show trial, Michael Popak in every one of those cases that I mentioned at the outset, Donald Trump had an opportunity to testify. Donald Trump invoked his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination in both of the criminal cases and didn't testify. He could have testified in the Trump Organization case. He didn't.

He could have testified in the E. Jean Carroll case where he was being accused of sexual assault. He ran to Scotland and Ireland, held a shovel in his hand, and then ran to the United States case, he didn't. He could have testified in the E. Jean Carroll case where he was being accused of sexual assault. He ran to Scotland in Ireland, held a shovel in his hand, and pretended that he was digging something. He could have testified like his lawyer said he was going to testify in the criminal case before Justice Mershon where he was convicted of 34 separate felony counts. But the thing is, when you have Justice Gorsuch go, oh well, ha ha ha, I think that we should, we agree on a lot of it. He is ripping away rights. He is a killer.

He is killing women and he's sitting there and going, oh well, you know, we agree on these things. While Donald Trump, the person who he's out there promoting like he shouldn't is talking about Soviet style show trials, literally ripping to shreds our country. And then they try to bolt sides in and go, Oh, well, well, Ben Mycelis and Michael Popok, you are using such a serious rhetoric and tone it down. I'm just telling you what their words are saying. I'm not even describing it so much as I'm literally reporting on what the words are and what they are actually, what they're doing.

Popak, I want to get your take on this. I want to remind everybody though about our Patreon. We had a great time. Oh yeah. patreon.com slash you, we had a great time. Oh yeah. patreon.com slash legal AF. We held a meeting. You got to answer all of those questions. Everybody's questions got answered. We're going to do it again in the next few weeks.

Meet Michael Popok, patreon.com slash legal AF. Also, my brother, Jordy continues to say, Ben, I don't think that you're going to remember to promote the Midas merch. We've got some incredible new Midas merch out there at store.midastouch.com. It's really good stuff. It's all selling very, very, very quickly. Check it out.

store.midastouch.com. Popeye, I want to get your reaction. We got to take that first quick break. Have you heard that the flavored air category is quickly becoming the leading alternative to vaping and smoking? It's a whole new movement towards better habits, led by the sponsor of today's video, Fume. Fume is an award-winning flavored air device,

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Michael Popa great ad reads, thank you support our support made it very personal to actually very touching hearing the baby for the first time. That's deep right there. My uncle likes those hearing aids as well. And speaking of the Soviet Union, she's from the former Soviet Union. We'll talk about it next when I get it back. You know, look, I showed you these emails that Donald Trump's sending. We talked about what Neil Gorsuch was saying. We're just talking about the stakes right now at the intersection

of law and politics of this election, which I actually think is not political at all. I thought when I went to law school, these were enduring values that we should all agree to and we may have nuances on politics. But when it comes to these things, I was like, I never thought that we'd be in a situation where you'd have a Supreme Court doing these things. What's your reaction to all that? Yeah, thanks.

First of all, I just did a hot take about the quiet quitting of Donald Trump. For all his bluster and all his social, what is replacing good old fashioned retail politicking and campaigning, which we're watching on full display with the whistle stop tour. This, this buoyant, raucous, enthusiastic, joyful, a whistle stop tour of nine different places, nine different battleground states and things with, with vice president Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. That's what you're supposed to be doing to make your closing argument to the American people in the last 90 days or so, because that's all the time you have. There's no

time to waste. Donald Trump, however, along with JD Vance, believes that there's a substitute for that. Social media posts, mean tweets, JD Vance trying to photobomb Air Force Two. Apparently he loves inanimate objects and being in the same place as they are. And so, and five person against her 20,000 yelling, screaming, top of their lungs in support of democracy rallies. You got JD Vance at a factory with five people that they recruited, I guess, who knows how,

to stand in front of a giant poster that says, Kamala, because it's blocked by, it looks like he's actually campaigning for Kamala Harris. This is the quiet quitting part. Donald Trump has had the entire week, one rally in Montana, of all places, which last time I looked is not a battleground state. Yeah, there's a Senate race that's interesting, but it's not a battleground state. So he goes to another friendly play, one, not nine, not every day. I mean, right now we are wall to wall, no pun intended, walls to walls coverage of Kamala Harris and the Might Have Touch Network because she's going to so many rallies and the response is so great.

And instead what I get is I didn't even understand, when you posted this thing a minute ago about one of his tweets, I didn't even understand it. He started it with, in four hours I step on stage and deliver dangerously liberal Kamala Harris, the worst all caps defeat of her political career. Does he understand how elections work? Does he understand that November 5th is the day of the election and him doing mean tweets and saying crazy, rambling, demented, unhinged things on Bozeman, Montana is not a defeat of Kamala Harris? I really, I mean, I know you skipped that part. And I'm like, I don't this this this he does he so demented he doesn't know how elections work.

Well, look, Michael Popak, I mean, you did hear what he says about John Tester's stomach. And and that that may I mean, that was one of the more powerful moments of this. Do we do we have that club? So we're going to talk we got to talk about the court case of this. Do we, do we have that club? So we're going to talk, we got to talk about the court case after this. Versus John Tester stomach in the world of Donald Trump. His name is John Tester. And I don't speak badly about somebody's physical disability. But he's got the biggest stomach I have ever seen. I swear. I swear. That's the biggest stomach. I have never seen a stomach like that.

Because he doesn't look that heavy. You're not allowed to use the word fat. So if you use the word fat, you can say obese, you can say anything, but you can't say fat. That's the end of your political career. I said it the other night. Somebody in the audience said Chris Christie is a fat pig. And I said, Sir, Chris Christie is not a fat pig. You should not. And we argued about it for three or four minutes. So that was no, he's not a fat pig. That's what he's but that's what he's left with Ben. He's left

with commenting on the girth of a Senate candidate in Bozeman, Montana. He has quit his own campaign. I mean, I think he's looking for the exit and JD Vance, who, you know, was the show pony who broke a leg on the first day. One trick pony. He's got nothing else to do now. He just photo bombs Kamala Harris and tries to get attention for himself. I thought, what's her name? Sarah Palin was terrible. And I even Paul Ryan was had had had major issues. But but JD Vance is the incredible shrinking candidate. This

mythology about him is completely false and rings false. He doesn't look like he should. I wouldn't let him run a government. I wouldn't let him run a bath at this point. The American people are soundly and roundly rejecting the Trump Vance viewpoint. I don't know if you saw this Ben, did you see that maybe because of all the coverage and criticism that he's getting on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal AF about the Project 2025 writing the forward for the architect of 2025 in his new book, they decided to shelve the book until after the election. Smart.

All right. Tell us though, Popeye, what's going on before Judge Tonya Chutkin, the Washington DC federal criminal case against Donald Trump for trying to overthrow the results of the 2020 election. That's the case which went to the Supreme Court after first Judge Tonya Chutkin denied Donald Trump's motion to dismiss on absolute immunity grounds. Trump appealed to the DC Circuit Court of Appeals. They unanimously, both Democratic and Republican appointees, following what the actual law was said, no, you don't get absolute immunity. Denied, Donald Trump went to Neil Gorsuch, who we saw earlier in the show, the right wing Supreme Court justices, six to three decision.

They said, yeah, absolute immunity. Not only that, you get absolute immunity for official duties. We should get a strong presumption that everything you did while in office, even things that were like notoriously things that were not permitted, like ordering the DOJ to do things when you are the president, when there's supposed to be a separation. Yeah, you get immunity for that. And there's evidentiary immunity where people can't even introduce any evidence at all

regarding official duties or official acts at the time of trial. So immediately, we talked about this on the last show, Judge Tanya Chutkin, who's presiding in the district court, when she got the case back from the Supreme Court last Saturday when we were doing Legal AF, she issued two orders right away, order after order, denying Donald Trump's motions to dismiss.

She said a status conference promptly and she requested briefing by the parties on what do we do next now that the Supreme Court made this absolute immunity argument. Special counsel Jack Smith filed a joint status report along with Trump's lawyers. It was unopposed. It was a stipulation, one of the first times we've seen them stipulate and agree to anything, to move these dates back by a few weeks. Then Judge Chutkin issued the following minute order. Minute order as to Donald Trump, the criminal case, the government's unopposed motion

for an extension of time is hereby granted the Joint Status Report, where they were gonna address the issues of absolute immunity that the Supreme Court ruled on. That was first due on August 9th, 2024, is now due by August 30th, 2024. The status conference previously scheduled for August 16th is continued until September 5th, 2024 after Labor Day

at 10 a.m. in courtroom nine. What do you make of this, Popak? Well let me jump off sides here because this is what I think is happening. Not jump off sides from you, just the common consensus here. Jack Smith needs more time for two reasons and I think it was a wise decision for him. One of them is he has to consult with all of the various civil and criminal divisions of the Department of Justice, this giant Leviathan machine that we call the Department of Justice. He has to consult with all the heads. Right now there's a lot of emails and memos going around.

There's a lot of conferences and calls because it's not just about Donald Trump, it's about past Jan 6th insurrectionists, future Jan 6th insurrectionists, cases we haven't even thought of, cases they haven't even thought of that could happen in the future, and how the ramifications of taking a position under this immunity decision will impact the Department of Justice for a long time, for the foreseeable future for generations. So it's a really hard decision they have to make and they need more time. Despite the fact, I'm sure they've been working on this for the, since the July 1st decision came out and, or the decision in Fisher versus the United States came out in which two of the counts, obstruction of an official proceeding, were kind of

imperiled by that decision, um, for Donald Trump, or at least there now has to be an argument to save it. That's one. Secondly, though, I think that what we're watching is because the July 1st decision by the United States Supreme Court was so lawless, was so unhinged, was so untethered to an appropriate analysis, was so slapdash put together by Chief Justice Roberts and trying to put together some coalition of the right-wing willing in order to side

with Donald Trump against all of this infighting going on in the court, of course, all glossed over by Gorsuch in your Fox interview clip today. It just shows you how difficult the quote-unquote precedent and requirements that they have now put on the government and put on Judge Chutkin are to apply. It's not an easy decision because it's almost impossible to follow. You gave a perfect example. The core, I know what core presidential powers are under Article II, and I know where to look for them. They're in the Constitution. Generally, the conversations that a president has with somebody in the Department of Justice is not generally considered core presidential function. It could be considered official conduct stretched to its outer boundaries,

for which it is a rebuttable presumption that it has immunity under this decision. But generally, that conversation between Donald Trump and Jeff Clark, where Jeff Clark said, hey, I have a way to overturn the will of the people. I can put something on Department of Justice letterhead and throw a monkey wrench into Georgia and other states certification of the election and claim that there was fraud in the election when there wasn't. And Donald Trump said, great, can you get it out now? He goes, yeah, I'll write it right now. That would be, in my view, official conduct at best. But no, in the order, they said, and we'll give you an example, and we're gonna take it off

the board right now, conversations between the president and Jeff Clark, absolute immunity. I'm like, okay, it didn't make sense from the teachings of the decision from the radio descende, as we like to say, the Latinate way of saying the kind of the logic of internal logic of the decision or the case law or the precedent. By the way, as we all commented back in the day, and that day was July 1st. This opinion was woefully lacking and light on precedent analysis and case law. And they had all the greatest hits. They throw in the one liner about, no man is above the law. And then the entire opinion was about putting one man, Donald Trump, above the law. And so because of that, it's very difficult for Jack Smith or anyone to map this decision

onto the indictment because it's all a mess. It's all gobbledygook on purpose. It's so opaque. And so that's what they're having problem with. So they gotta take a position It's not just about we'll get back to you about how we want to brief this They're trying to come up with what is their good faith? Analysis for the best position and like a good pool player to set up the next shot not just in this case

But in other cases, all right, so they're doing so that is the delay and that's what we watched cases. All right, so they're doing so that is the delay. And that's what we watched writ large with the request for three more weeks. Of course, Donald Trump was like a delay, I'll take at least one of those. And so he was like, great. And the judge was like, Okay, I get it. It's hard. And you and you're a Department of Justice. You're not just a guy. That guy was like, he'll come up with his opinion. It'll be two lawyers look, but the Department of Justice has bigger fish to fry.

And that's what we're watching. So the good news is there's going to be a hearing on September the 5th, right after Labor Day when the judge gets back from vacation and all of that. She's cleared out the underbrush in the meantime by denying the motions that were all filed Syria autumn all in order in October of last year by Donald Trump on various grounds of motions to dismiss. She's like, forget all those. And some of these I don't even wanna deal with

until after I decide about immunity. Now she's got, because the hard work is the following, and then I wanna backpedal on something you and I talked about last week, or I wanna give another view. She's gotta take this indictment and she's gotta pass it through, whether you think of it like a

meat grinder, a cheese grater, or a filter. But she's got to shove this indictment through the directions of the United States Supreme Court and see what comes out the bottom. Is this going to be a Swiss cheese indictment that doesn't, there's nothing left of it because of the overt acts between the evidential immunity part of it and the absolute. Once you apply all these, what's left? And I don't think now Jack Smith's going to raise his hand and say, we'd like to re-indict. We'd like to go back to a grand jury and re-indict and then try to comply with what the Supreme Court wants. I think they did the indictment so surgical, because you and I always talked about comparing this indictment to the speaking indictment of Fonny Willis, for example, which was sweeping and went on

for pages and hundreds of allegations, dozens of defendants about things all over the United States that happen even outside of Georgia. That's not what Jack Smith did. Jack Smith knows the Supreme Court is constituted the way it is, and I think was very surgical and mindful for another reason here. So it would survive any kind of wacko immunity argument that came out of the Supreme Court, which it did. So I think he stands on solid ground on his immunity, on his indictment with the immunity decision. He makes that argument. As to the evidentiary hearing, I'm not sure, A, it's permitted or B, it's necessary. And here's my theory on that. The indictments who come out of

the grand jury have to rise and fall on what is in the indictment. If there was another fact that should have been put in there, you can't supplement it now in a brief, you can't supplement it now in a hearing. If there was a great argument that was made at the grand jury proceedings, which are still secret, you can't say, hey, judge, read the transcript, supplement and annotate, and no, this thing has to be what it is, given the law the way it is.

So while I would love a mini trial, I just don't see how an indictment which can't be amplified, supplemented, or amended through anything else other than what the grand jury issued is gonna be. I don't see how you're gonna get a mini trial where evidence and witnesses and Mike Pence comes in and this and that because this thing's got to rise and fall

on its own merits. And while the Supreme Court chastised, and we all believe wrongly, Judge Chutkin about, oh, you should have done this at the beginning. You should have done a fact-finding and immunity analysis at the beginning of the indictment stage and not at the end. And that was your major problem, but gave her no guidance on how to do it. And she's gonna have to work it out with this briefing schedule. I don't see it evidentiary hearing. I see major briefing, three briefs in total, which maybe she gets completed

by the end of September, beginning of October, and then she issues a ruling. But the reason we don't see a hot and bothered Jack Smith with his hair in fire about timing, nor do we see it in the 11th Circuit on Mar-a-Lago in Cannon is because he sort of recognized he sees the clock and he sees the calendar and he knows that he's never going to get either cases up and running to get tried before the election, let alone before the inauguration. So an extra week here or there,

that's why I think he's left the 11th circuit briefing alone in Mar-a-Lago with Judge Cannon to get that case back and has accepted basically the briefing schedule That put it into early September and October and then I think he's done the same thing here So we're not watching him defeated But we're watching him being a real politic realist about what he can accomplish and what he should accomplish and the importance of it. If we're right, I'll leave it on this. If we're right about Kamala Harris winning

and become a Madam President-elect, such sweet music to our ears, then all this timing issue won't even matter. The Department of Justice will stay intact, maybe headed by another attorney general. The special counsel will stay intact and the cases will continue against a failed, shrunken criminal Florida man in Donald Trump. We still have the sentencing in the Manhattan district attorney criminal case set for

September 18th. Justice Murchon said, come hell or high water, we are doing a hearing that day, so you could do all your procedural maneuvers. There will be a hearing on September 18th. Also, Donald Trump is a very good counter indicator and everything that he does just do the opposite. So in fact, when Donald Trump wanted delay, it may have actually been in his benefit to have all of the criminal trials, one after the other, because it's the only time he's able to actually stay on a message.

Now, his message is totally false and defamatory, but when he has the criminal case, he comes up with the four things he says about the judge. Oh, it's the judge's daughter. Oh, Mar-a-Lago is worth $8 trillion and not $27 million, even though Donald Trump said it was worth $27 million to pay less taxes or, you know, have you seen justice and go on? Have you seen this guy? He's a crazy guy. You know, he hits the same points and the corporate media doesn't give a crap if he's

found life for felonies or sexual assault or whatever it is. Um, so, you know, look, I think the fact that you don't have these criminal trials right now and we're able to see what Donald Trump's saying in Montana, what Donald Trump is saying in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, what Donald Trump is saying at the National Association of Black Journalists, people can see who this individual is talking about Hannibal Lecter getting eaten by sharks, you know, talking about bellies, you know, strange behavior that is so outside the orbit of any just normal political discourse, yet alone articulating coherent political theory. But it's why I wanted to start with at the beginning of this episode to say, look, Trump's

been found liable of felonies. He's a convicted felon. He's been found liable for sexual assault. The Trump organization as an entity is a felon organization, and Donald Trump has been found civilly liable for fraud. All of that has happened. And if we were to ask our viewers, did you think that was going to happen? Would we be in a place with August where all of those things were true? You would say, no, no way all of those things were going to happen. But then if I told you those things were going to happen, you'd probably say, well, then he's done. How can you possibly survive in a political climate where you're a felon? You've been found liable for sexual assault. Your organization is a felon and you've been found liable for sexual assault, your organization is a felon, and you've been found liable for $500 million. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Well, that goes to a broader conversation about

the corrosiveness of our media landscape that normalizes this behavior and the complete capitulation of the Republican Party that has hoisted up this authoritarian wannabe WWE cosplay fascist on We The People, which we now see the antidote to that seems to be joy and happiness and spreading love. And that's actually one of the things too, which I thought should never be political, but reclaiming the flag, reclaiming patriotism,

chance of USA, USA, out of love and happiness and not anger. That's a powerful force right now. When we get back, I still wanna talk about the sentencing of that January 6th insurrectionist, showing you what this Reagan judge did. Then let's talk a little bit about the Arizona State prosecution, just a tad. Let's talk about it.

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Let's just, and by the way, you can support those sponsors in the description. There are links. Use those discount codes, Jordy and Popok and Karen, myself, we spend a lot of time vetting those sponsors and we're very proud of them. And we're happy that they sponsor this show and it's one of the ways we keep this thing going. Michael Popok, tell us about this powerful sentencing that took place in Washington,

DC. Yeah, we've got, we never want people to get Gen 6 fatigue and I think it was a great, the timing of it, well, it might've been a little bit of serendipity, was a great rejoinder to Donald Trump earlier in the week at his rambling, unhinged, demented, Mar-a-Lago press conference, which I believe he was goaded into giving because his vice presidential candidate

stepped out of bounds and started to attack Kamala Harris with some weird countdown clock for how many times she has it or how long it's been since she gave a press conference. I mean, she's the vice president of the United States. She's got a day job. Her side gig is running to save democracy and be the next president of the United States. She doesn't have to stand and give a press conference in the middle of it all. Wearing what hat would she be doing? People campaigning don't give press conferences generally, and vice presidents don't generally give press conferences. But because he goaded her for that, then Donald Trump said, oh crap, I got to give a press

conference. And that went about as well as the black journalist interview went, meaning not well at all, because now you've got Donald Trump, who can't find, he's on shifting sands, and he hasn't been able to recalibrate, and won't be able to, about how to come up with a line of attack against Kamala Harris that's consistent and doesn't just open up that weird stew of his brain that's filled with racism and misogyny and everything else. And so he can't do it, especially for an hour long unhinged press conference. So at the same time, he says at his press conference, nobody died on Gen 6. No fatalities. It was literally a walk in the park. It was just people's peaceful protest. Judges have now, including Judge Royce Lampert that we're gonna talk about,

are getting fed up with hearing right-wing MAGA and the cult leader try to revise and revisit what happened on Gen 6. They know better than anybody because there's about a dozen just, I would say about eight justices, judges in the DC Circuit Court, Federal Court, that have had to hear these thousand of cases. They've sat collectively and watched tens of thousands of hours of video and audio and social media postings. And they don't lie about how violent this insurrection was, especially at the

West Portico and the West Tunnel, which was a medieval battle being waged by insurrectionists, including David Dempsey, who we're going to talk about next, who was the worst, most violent, at the most violent location, most violent battle with an outmatched and outnumbered Metro and Capitol Police against thousands of insurrectionists. He was the worst of the bunch and that's why he got the second highest sentence of anyone that's been sentenced, including the Oath Keepers and Three Percenters. The only one that beat this guy's 20 years, that Royce Lampert, this Reagan appointee just gave him, was Enrico Tarrio, who was the founder of the Proud Boys.

He even got more than Stuart Rhodes, the one-eyed guy, Yale Law guy, blew out his own eye, who ran the Oath Keepers. So this shows you how bad this guy was. And Royce Lampert, people may recall, who watch our show regularly, you and I talked about him about six months ago, and I did a hot take on it.

I read from his order where he said, he didn't have to say this, but he said in another sentencing, what is happening to America because of Republican leaders who are trying to rewrite what happened on Jan 6th. He says, I'm used to having defendants in my courtroom try to pull the wool over my eyes and tell me what I've just seen or just heard in evidence didn't really happen.

I'm not used to leaders doing that. And what he's referring to is, of course, Marjorie Taylor Greene and others saying they're political prisoners. It was just a tour, it was all you know just rewriting history. Watch the footage. Royce Lampert has watched the footage. And so I thought it was a great rejoinder just a day after Donald Trump lied, looked the American people in the eye once again and lied to them and totally disparaged the memory of nine people who are no longer on planet earth because of Jan 6th, half of which are law enforcement and the other half even his own followers who died by stroke or somebody tried to make their way to the to the speaker's hallway to go kill elected

officials and was stopped by law enforcement and heart attacks and drug overdoses and whatever else happened that day. And then people that took their own life that happened to work in law enforcement because of the brutality of what happened on that particular day. That alone tells you how horrific Gen 6 was that people no longer would want to be on planet earth

who were in law enforcement because of what they saw and What happened to them so Dempsey? particularly You if you just see the rundown that Royce Lampert did he pled guilty the guy he was also known on up by online sleuthers who tracked him down and reported him to the Department of Justice as and reported him to the Department of Justice as a flag gator cop hater guy, because he wore a flag gator around his neck and he covered it up to his eyes, and he attacked. He was only charged and convicted of violent attacks on two law enforcement. I'll talk about that in a second, but he did more than that. As

Royce Lampert and the Department of Justice put it, he used as human scaffolding other Jan 6th insurrectionists, climbed over them, got to the top and whatever he could get his hands on, he got his hands on broken furniture, a flagpole, police equipment, and he mercilessly battered law enforcement. One of the two cops that he beat so mercilessly was hit in the head so hard by a flag, I think it was a flag pole or a piece of broken furniture by David Dempsey that had not only left a gash on his head, but the cop was almost out,

he was a detective for the Metropolitan Police, he was almost out on his feet and was knocked unconscious by this. Officer Nguyen was just sprayed with a torrent of bear spray or pepper spray directly into his eyes, not just like, you know, like, you know, like just full on fire hose of spray. And for all of that, and literally Department of Justice said, this is the, if not the, one of the most violent insurrectionists. And that is a counter to all the people in MAGA and the elected officials that have told the American people that these people weren't armed. They were. If they weren't armed when they got there, they certainly found makeshift arms when they arrived. That

they were just peaceful protesters expressing their First Amendment rights. That's not true. The jails are filled with people now who have been convicted because of otherwise. Not in kangaroo, Soviet-style courts, either bench trials or jury trials with evidence, with juries, with grand juries, with convictions, with pleas to avoid a jury trial of these people and almost every one of them except for David Dempsey, I'll leave it on this for you Ben, most of them are broken people after they're sentenced especially if they're sentenced for 10, 15 or 20 years.

There's a whole group of about 12 of them, that are serving between 10 and 22 years. And they blubber and they cry and they beg for forgiveness and they talk about their families and all of that. But then there is this hardened group of criminals. This is the group that Donald Trump will let out of the jails like he's like the Joker emptying Arkham Mental Hospital if he gets elected again. And this includes David Dempsey. David Dempsey didn't cry. David Dempsey, according to courtroom watchers, made a symbol of white supremacy on his way out after being sentenced. And others have chanted Trump won as they dragged them off with the federal marshals and get them assigned into a

prison where they belong. This group of the top from 10 years, and this is six or seven different judges of all different political stripes, including Republican appointed and Trump appointed, have sent this group away, this subgroup away. Donald Trump will let them out of the jails, commute their sentence and pardon them if the American people give him an opportunity to do it. Well, look, I think it's important that people still know there are Republican mayors like John Giles and Mesa, Arizona, that there are Republican appointed federal judges

who are upholding law and order. And we can draw the distinction between a once proud political party in the Republican party versus whatever this magus strand that took over. And frankly, you know, it was part of the bargain that Republicans were striking with the Tea Party. You go back to George W. Bush and the type of alliances he was creating, which ultimately led to, you know, this MAGA strand being the strand that, you know, fully took over.

Um, but I think it is helpful to know that you have that, uh, out there. I want to turn to Arizona. We talked about at the beginning of the show, this packed crowd that vice president Kamala Harris, governor walls spoke in front of in Glend turn to Arizona. We talked about at the beginning of the show, this packed crowd that Vice President Kamala Harris, Governor Walz spoke in front of in Glendale, Arizona, but a lot of legal developments in Arizona. We have Donald Trump's former lawyer, Jenna Ellis, entering into a cooperation agreement with state prosecutors to testify against all of the co-conspirators, all of the fake electors who were criminally indicted against Meadows, against Giuliani, against everybody who was being criminally prosecuted there. So she's become a state's witness. I think that's, she also played guilty in Georgia, so that's a big development. You had one

of the fake electors enter into a guilty plea this past week. Lorraine Pellegrino admitted to guilt and being involved in the fake elector scheme, and she'll be cooperating and testifying against the other fake electors. And then we learned this other thing about the grand jury in Arizona before the indictment was ultimately handed down where 18 of these criminal defendants were indicted as co-conspirators of Donald Trump. But Michael, the grand jury wanted to indict Donald Trump. And they were like, so why haven't you presented like the shooter? Like you presented the guys who put the bullets in, you presented

the guys who built the gun, but we, we want to indict Trump. And then the prosecutors put on a PowerPoint presentation that actually misconstrued what's called the Pettit policy of the DOJ. And the prosecutor in Arizona's put on this presentation saying, actually, we shouldn't be indicting him because the DOJ is already doing a prosecution. That's not what the Pettit policy is. I mean, if there was an acquittal at the Department of Justice level, then the states aren't supposed to prosecute, but that's not what happened, nor are state prosecutors

bound by DOJ policy. The policy that was being presented was, if there's an acquittal at the state level, should the DOJ have a federal prosecution if there's an acquittal at the state? And the Pettit policy says, we really shouldn't, unless it's the most egregious kind of mishandling of the legal system. So somehow that was contorted

so that Donald Trump ultimately wasn't indicted in Arizona. You know, and I want to get your thoughts on that. You know, do you think that was strategic that they just didn't want to indict him? They wanted to get their guilty pleas. They could indict Donald Trump at a later time. They want to have these convictions. They know if Trump was in, when Trump would use all that pack money and help

the other criminal defendants and Trump's not included, do try to maybe do it differently than what we see in Fulton County, Georgia, where Trump and all these people were included, it became a mess. Maybe don't include Trump at first, get everybody else to plead guilty, get all these convictions and then do it as a two-step before you go for Donald Trump.

So that was my theory about why not indict him because look, you have Chris Mays, a very good prosecutor over there. And it's not that I think he wants to avoid it. I think he wanted to just avoid it now, seeing what happened in Georgia. What do you think? Yeah, I think that when we first reported on it, I thought that they had made a strategic decision based on they had the benefit of having seen

Fulton County and they decide, and the benefit of what Jack Smith had did. Remember, we were busy piecing together who are the six unindicted co-conspirators and why is it just against Donald Trump? There it went the other way. He brought it just against Donald Trump and not against the others. Then you've got Fulton County who brought it against Donald Trump and the others and got mired in the whole immunity or supremacy clause or executive privilege things. She's watching all of that. Let's be honest. I mean, there was an immunity case that was pending at the time when all of this happened. I I thought, like you did, because we did, we jumped on a hot take when this first indictment first came out, I thought that the reason that

they didn't do it, the reason that she didn't do it, Chris Mays, is because they just wanted to get the co-conspirator fake electors, because 11 out of the 18 are fake electors, similar to Georgia. And then the rest are this inner sanctum of this unholy inner sanctum of Donald Trump, which is like, and many of which, as you noted, overlap with Georgia. Mike Roman, the election day coordinator, the mule for the fake elector certificates, and Jenna Ellis again, and Rudy Giuliani again, and John Eastman again, and that group. And you remembered, Ben, that in Georgia, there was a special purpose grand jury that actually wanted more people indicted

than Fonny Willis exercising her prosecutorial discretion. And that's what it comes down to, then she ultimately indicted. And that's what it comes down to, is prosecutorial discretion. Now, I didn't know about at the time what you just presented, which was that they sort of misled the grand jury or they just had a fundamental misunderstanding, which shocks me because Chris Mays is really, really smart in that position. I mean, Arizona

is filled with really smart women lawyers. Their governor used, you know, was the secretary of state and got elevated, you know, by the people to be the governor and now Chris is the attorney, the attorney general. So I, I still believe it's the right thing to do right now. I've done hot takes, I think you have too, where we're already getting the flipping that we started to see in Georgia. Jenna Ellis was the first shoe to drop. The next shoe to drop was one of the fake electors, Miss Pellegrino has decided to cooperate because these people facing nine felonies because they were in love with Donald Trump, you know, doesn't do it for them anymore because they have nothing to gain.

They're not gonna, they're not hoping for another Trump administration. They're not going to be benefited. Like she was like the head of a woman's Republican group somewhere in rural Arizona. She's not going to go take one for the team because she doesn't get anything back. That's the difference that you and I have analyzed between that and that upper level in that food chain, right? This inner circle that believe they are gonna be benefited, they're gonna be restored to power, they're going to, you know, they're the shadow government, you know? And so they're willing to go down

with the ship with Donald Trump because, and take one for the team, because they think they're gonna be rewarded in the afterlife if Donald Trump gets reelected. This other group of like the fake electors who just signed the receipts for the conspiracy, like they're heading for the exit and they're like, where is the key to the door? I need out. So there's going to be at least a half of the fake electors that are going to cooperate with

Chris May's investigation and they better hurry because as we've talked about in prior legal AFs, prosecutors are under theory like, don't make me work that hard. The harder you make me work and I start giving out deals, the next people coming in are not gonna get misdemeanors and probations. The next people coming in are gonna get felonies. And so that incentivizes people to hurry up and make their decisions.

That's why in Georgia, some of the former lawyers for Donald Trump got felonies and some of the former lawyers got misdemeanors. And some of them gave tearful, like, I'm sorry. And like Jenna Ellis, which of course lit up all the prosecutors around the country, because they're like, well, she's going to fold like a cheap suit, like a card table. Let's just go after her. And so she's going to spill the beans. And according to reporting and Chris Mays' own office, they gave her that sweetheart deal, Jenna Ellis,

because she's got the goods on so many of the other co-conspirators and maybe even up to Donald Trump for another indictment, because the indictment window is not closed, of course, that it was worth giving her basically a pass for what she did, not only denying felony counts, because they need her as a cooperating witness. The other reason is it's because of what happened in what we saw in the lack of cooperation that made Jack Smith's life harder in Mar-a-Lago.

He always thought that Walt Nauta, the butler, Carlos de Oliveira, the maintenance worker, were going to flip with a lot of pressure on them the way they were able to get the IT worker, Yusele Tavares, to flip. But it didn't happen. And it made the case a lot harder because even though they got all those housekeepers and maintenance workers and cooks and whatever else at Mar-a-Lago, the eyes and ears of Mar-a-Lago, to testify against Donald Trump. All these nameless, faceless people that Donald Trump couldn't be tripped over them. He wouldn't know who they were, let alone they were on his payroll. They never got those key people. Chris, now she knows she's never gonna get John Eastman. She's never gonna get Giuliani.

She's never gonna get Mike Rome. And these are the truest, you prick them and they bleed Trump, whatever color Trump is. And that's it. And so without them, they can't get the rest of the case. So they gotta give a sweetheart deal to Jenna Ellis, hope they pick up like Ken Chesbrough again, sure they will. And then get all these fake electors to flip. And then they got their case.

And then they can revisit the issue after they see what happened with this immunity decision, because they got to now apply that immunity decision isn't just federal. It applies to state prosecution of Donald Trump. And it has to be, it has to be followed as murky and muddy as of a decision it is, it has to be followed. Jordy, my younger brother keeps on texting me, Ben, I will not forgive you if you do not plug

the Midas merch, I'm exaggerating, but Jordy wants me to plug it, and it's incredible merch. We've got your mind your own damn business, Harrah's wall shirts, we got the we are not going back shirts, we got the childless cat lady shirt. We got the Kamala brat t-shirt. We got the vote for the prosecutor, not the criminal. We've got the ballot mug prosecutor over criminal unburdened hats.

We've got a lot of great merch, 100% union made 100% made in the USA. And of course we've got the Legal AF Merch. Make sure you check out all the Legal AF Merch as well. Some great stuff that Karen Friedman Agnifilo took the lead on in designing with the assistance of Michael Popak. Store.mitustouch.com. In the next two weeks or so, maybe two, two, three weeks, we'll come up with the date of when we'll do our next

partner and associate meeting on Patreon. Michael Popak and I did one last week. It was so incredible meeting you all as close to in person as we can virtually through Zoom. Go to patreon.com slash legal AF. It helps build this show. It helps build the Midas Touch network because we don't have outside investors and it's fun.

You get to meet Michael Popok, ask him questions on a Zoom and you get to hear things that maybe we weren't able to cover on this show. So thank you to everybody who joined there. We're averaging about 15 to 20,000 new subscribers every single day right now on the Midas Touch YouTube channel, which is pretty incredible. That means each one of you are sharing this network with one, two, three, five, 10, 20, 100, a thousand people in your life.

Even if you just share this network with just one person that goes a really long way to help corporate media has let us all down. They failed. They continue to fail. We can't rely on them. We have to build our own media network. This community you are doing it. It's called the Midas Touch Network and we have taken the power back.

We the people you are part of that. They the biggest part of that. The biggest part of that is you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Also subscribe to Legal AF on audio podcast as well. It helps the algorithm on the audio podcast, so just search Legal AF there. Thank you all so, so much.

Michael Popock, always great spending time with you. Legal AF first, always an incredible time spending time with you. Thank youers, always an incredible time spending time with you. Thank you all so much for doing your part in protecting, preserving, and defending our democracy. Shout out Legal AFers, shout out to the Midas Mighty.