Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump LEGAL PROBLEMS are NOT Going AWAY

Episode Date: July 21, 2024

Ben Meiselas and Michael Popok are back for the weekend edition of the top-rated Legal AF podcast. On this episode, the anchors discuss and debate: the impact of the events in Pennsylvania on Trump’s court cases; the Special Counsel’s newly filed appeal of Judge Cannon’s wrong-headed decision to find the Special Counsel unconstitutional; the impact of Judge Cannon’s ruling on other Special Counsel prosecutions even those not related to Trump including Hunter Biden’s; the conviction of a leading Republican fundraiser and close confident of Steve Bannon and Donald Trump for fraud, and so much more at the intersection of law and politics. Join the Legal AF Patreon: https://Patreon.com/LegalAF Thanks to our sponsors: Henson Shaving: Visit https://HensonShaving.com/LEGALAF to pick the razor for you and use code LEGALAF for 2 years worth of free blades! MD Hearing: MD Hearing: To get our $297 when you buy a PAIR offer, including a free charger, head to https://ShopMDHearing.com and use code LEGALAF. Zbitoics: Head to https://zbiotics.com/LegalAF to get 15% off your first order when you use LEGALAF at checkout. 3 Day Blinds: For their buy 1 get 1 50% off deal, head to https://3DayBlinds.com/LEGALAF Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Benefits vary by card, other conditions apply. Let me give you some perspective from our backgrounds as trial lawyers. As a trial lawyer, some days you have really good days at trial, some days you have really bad days at trial. But if on your bad days of trial, which among the best trial lawyers happens to everyone, and you say, you know what, I'm throwing in the towel,

it's over right now, you will lose every single trial. And I think the lessons that we take as trial lawyers can be applied to this current historical moment. And, you know, it's why you don't see the hosts here panicking, reacting from emotion, or acting precipitously and why. We've been focused on the data every step of the way. In this show, Legal AF, specifically focused on the intersection of law and politics, layers on to our database analysis from our other shows of what's

really at stake here, you know, and I think the American people get it. And I think with shows like this, where we talk about project 2025, where we talk about the Supreme Court's rulings, overturning decades, and in some cases, centuries of precedent, it puts things in perspective that this is not a game. That politics isn't some dog and pony show which should not be about Hulk Hogan ripping off his shirt at political conventions and going, oh yeah, do you smell

what the Hulk Hogan's saying? Oh yeah. Like there are real issues here. People's rights and lives are on the line. And that's what we talk about here on Legal AF. And we do it by going over the constitution, going over the case law, going over precedent, and not just being descriptive, but being prescriptive.

So what I wanna do on today's Legal AF is I wanna talk about a few topics. The first topic I do want to talk about is the Republican National Convention at the intersection though, of where politics meets the law, because a lot of things happen there that I think are an affront and attack

on our justice system, on our legal system, and frankly, on normalcy. I know the corporate media wants to have its own narrative, but that's why people are cutting the cord and tuning out. Then I want to focus on special counsel, Jack Smith, filing a notice of appeal to the 11th circuit court of appeal, um, regarding a judge, Eileen Cannon's horrifically unlawful order where she dismissed the Mar-a-Lago

document case saying the appointment clause of the Constitution required her to dismiss the case but only confined to that case and all special counsels she claims are illegal only as it relates to Donald Trump only in her courtrooms. Then we should also talk about how Hunter Biden who's being prosecuted by special counsels, he was convicted in a case involving one, said, you know what, it doesn't really work that way. It's not confined to one court. If you have a rogue federal judge in one district

dismissing a case against Donald Trump, saying special counsels are unlawful, hey, special counsels are prosecuting me. You can't have different rules for different sets of people. So that's what Hunter Biden did. We'll talk about that. And we'll talk about how judges across the country,

regardless of whether they're conservative or liberal, I mean, they're pissed at Judge Cannon because she makes them look stupid as well. We'll also talk about the trial of Miles Guo, the big MAGA fund Guo, the big maga funder, the guy who ran a billion dollar fraud scheme. He was convicted of nine of the 12 felony counts, probably going to go to jail for the rest of his life unless Donald Trump disgraces the office again, and we'll

almost certainly pardon him right away. And then I want to talk about some updates in the shooting that took place last week when we were doing Legal AF. And of course we had to adjust and adapt our coverage here on the Midas Touch Network to focus on coverage about what went down in Butler, Pennsylvania. I want to talk about things that I want to do it in a fearless manner. No, we're not spreading conspiracies here. We take very seriously what happened. We condemn violence. Absolutely, in any sense. But I think we should ask them questions like why is it that we don't have the medical records? We have more

medical records from President Biden since he had COVID than Donald Trump's medical record. So, we should talk about things. We should talk about the status of the investigation. Let me bring in Michael Popok. Popok, how are you, sir? I'm doing fantastic. Great to be with you and to be with our audience. I can't think of a better place to be during the week than in the embrace of Midas Touch and Legal AF

and my co-anchors like you, Ben. Look, Michael, let's just get right into the, you know, the media was like, oh, change of tone, change of tone. Like it's not. If anything, it's kind of worse. Donald Trump's speech at the convention, he praised Victor Orban, an authoritarian who basically destroyed any semblance of law and order or a legal system in Hungary and also destroyed the free press. He said that he was so, Donald Trump said how proud he was.

The Taliban called him his excellency and said they probably didn't call Joe Biden his excellency or President Biden his excellency. Trump bragged about Hannibal Lecter and then Donald Trump continued to make posts where he called January 6th the hoax. He called the casa hoax. He's attacking all of the various cases.

He says, he demands the dismissal of lawless indictments here, the January six hoax in Washington, Manhattan and DA's zombie case, New York, AG. And then he goes on to further defame E.G. And Carol, and he says, fake claims about a woman I never met a decade old photo in line with her, uh, then husband does not count. Uh, what counts is that you were found liable for sexual assault by a jury and found liable for defamation twice. One question I have for you, Michael Popak, that's another act of defamation

right there, so I mean, E. Jean Carroll would have another case against him. Then his post earlier today, more whining, all caps. We're under attack from crooked Joe Biden, worst president, hoax this, hoax that, unconstitutional, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Shows us the stakes though, you know, doesn't it? And, and, and look, I think the American people get it. I don't think, I mean, there's a reason why the ratings were 47% fewer viewers watching the RNC.

We talk about data, Michael Popak. I mean, people forget, we actually have data from primaries, right? Donald Trump underperformed, for example, the 538 polls and most of the polls in Michigan, for example, by like 17 points. Let's be clear, he underperformed the polling by 17 points. And other than North Carolina, Donald Trump underperformed the polling in mostly all of the other states, anywhere from 5% to 20%.

The polls were off by 5% to 20%. And then on the other side, President Biden, during the primaries, exceeded all of the polling data. I recently interviewed Professor Lichtman, who said this democracy by polls is like the worst way to possibly run a system, just a new media driven narrative every single day over the past three years. But let's not get into that. Let's focus on, you know, look, there's not a change of tone. And, you know, he's inviting more legal cases, but at this point, I think Trump's like, look, the Supreme Court's given me absolute immunity and I'm just going to go full all this out the fame, my sexual assault victim media and calling me out. What do you think?

No, I think just I'll touch on the polls for a minute. Um, the, there's an old line from Mark Twain. There's lies, damn lies. And he said statistics. And I say polling, lies, damn lies and polling. The only poll that matters is the day you go to the polls and you vote. And the underperforming just shows you. I mean, when I read Nate Silver, who's made himself into a guru, the New York Times bought his company. And he says, there's no way of this or no way of that. I like to remind everybody that the day of the election in 2016, moments before the polls opened, his predictive model said that it was a 95% chance that Hillary Clinton would win because I checked that day. And last I looked, that didn't happen. And so I'm less concerned about

I looked, that didn't happen. And there, so I'm less concerned about winning or losing in July than I am about what happens in November. And for all of the MAGA who said, oh, election over after what happened in Pennsylvania, you can just, you can just coordinate him now. I don't think so. There are people that care, including on our network about law and order. Apparently,

the MAGA party has completely abdicated that territory that they used to occupy or claim to. We care about justice. We care about the Supreme Court and getting it recalibrated any way that we can with a proper balance on that court so that its rulings are going to be in line with modern, current, mores, traditions, and values because it isn't right now. It is in line with some ancient principles of old justices that have finally gotten the numbers like Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito. It's basically the Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas Court and Gorsuch has joined them, not the Roberts Court. And there is a way to fix that. And it has to do with actually voting in November. But it's this lawlessness that we saw on stage. It's not unity. It was

male testosterone dominated, male speaker after male speaker after male speaker. If you looked at the New York Times did an analysis of the vocabulary words that were used and put them into little bubbles based on how many times that they were used. I defy you to find one that relates to reproductive rights, women's rights, voting rights, rights of people who came to this country through an immigration policy or anything that matters to everyday Americans and patriots that follow our audience because it doesn't exist. It was all about lock them up and mass deportation, which was ringing in the ears of the crowd as Usha Vance, who happens to be Hindu Indian American and the wife of JD Vance took the stage. And so this was the, it wasn't a broad tent of unity, it was an ugly tent of, most of which was

completely boring. You did some great odd takes of not only Donald Trump falling asleep during it, including his son's own speech, but there's plenty of reporting about people leaving early, people not interested in the speakers. Marjorie Taylor Greene can't sell a book while she's there, which is not a great sign for her. If you can't sell that there, then I don't know where you're going to. And it gives license and permission, that tone from the top that we've talked about, to be lawless. Sure,

Donald Trump has been helped out at this moment by the MAGA right-wing, including those that he put on the United States Supreme Court and one that he appointed in Alien Canon, who we're going to talk about. But there is a way to right these wrongs. And it really does have to do with what the Founding Fathers wanted, that we vote at the properly pronounced, he got it right, not wrong, ballot box on, that's what I heard, on November 5. And we've always, as a network and as a legal AF, we've always focused on what, it's not just telling you, this is like, these are the flags on the course. We tell you how you can ski the course.

It's not just identifying these are the pitfalls. It's giving you an opportunity to make a change. This is not a communist dictatorship, fascist dictatorship yet. And there is still ways, and we've got months to get there to restore the institutions of our society, including the criminal justice system, back to its rightful place in protecting our democracy. And we'll talk about it story by story as we expose it here on Legal AF, and what you and I and others do in terms of our hot ticks.

You know, while the convention was going on as well, I want to highlight this on, you know, all of the shows that we have, because, you know, when Donald Trump doesn't release the medical records from the shooting, but he does release $299 assassination attempt edition sneakers, the fact that you don't see really anyone else other than Midas Touch Network and a handful of other independent networks, but we were the ones who broke this story. How do you not cover the fact that Donald Trump's immediate instinct before calling the widow of one of his own supporters who died there, the same widow who President Biden called right away to send his condolences, but she refused to take

the call of the president of the United States because she said her husband was MAGA and would not want her to ever speak to president Joe Biden because he hated Joe Biden, but then Donald Trump doesn't call her. And instead Donald Trump sells 299 assassination attempt edition, sneakers, fight, fight, fight, high top, strict limit of three pairs per customer. Introducing the fight, fight, fight, high tops, limited edition high tops. It features Trump's iconic image with his fist raised honor, his unwavering

determination and bravery with only 5,000 pairs available. Each one is a true collector's item and Trump will sign 10 of them, randomly signed 10 of them. It's like the ugliest sneaker. It's not even the American flag. I don't even know what flag that is, but you know, I don't want to live in a country where that's so bizarre, you know, like the behavior. Depraved.

Depraved. Depraved. I think we have this from the convention, like Hulk Hogan was a speaker there and he was not a minor speaker. It wasn't like, like he got prime time, the key speech right before, I think Eric then Donald. Like this was one of the key speeches. They picked Hulk Hogan, the old WWE wrestler. And, you know, while people's rights are on the lines as the Supreme Court, reversed Roe v Wade, as, you know, the Republican agenda is to block IVF,

block any access to contraception. This was the speech that was given here, play this clip. Yeah, and it's not funny because it's not. And number two, when you went to law school, when I went to law school, we take the oath that we take with solemnity. We take it to defend and protect our democracy. This isn't a game. And then, you know, there was, you know, I'm not going to even play it, but like the media afterwards was like, and Hulk Hogan gave a really good speech, riveting, one of the most

impressive speeches of the night by far, one of the better speeches we've seen in any recent convention history. And I'm watching the PO-POK and I'm like, what in the world is going on with our country? That's at the same time Donald Trump threatens the corporate media and he attacks them and threatens them anyway. I wanted to share the whole Kogan piece about it though, because what we try to do here on Legal AF is say, whatever that cosplay fascism is, we need to understand the

law and have real conversations and bring things back to this. But what do you make of it? Yeah, look, I was as disturbed by Hulk Hogan taking the stage and the messaging it's sending to young voters and to voters not yet old enough to vote about where that party is, how hollow it is, how hollowed out it is, how morally bereft and bankrupt it is than anything else. I don't know what's worse, that or Zuckerberg from Facebook doing a fanboy moment about Donald Trump saying, that was some cool stuff there when he did that hand raise

after the whatever hit him in the ear at Pennsylvania. I'm like, really? Now we're just worshiping some, this isn't X-Men, this isn't Marvel Comics, this isn't The Boys, this is our democracy at stake. Why is it then that I know more about John Fetterman's stroke and depression, the Senator from Pennsylvania, and as you said, Joe Biden's recent COVID bout, that I know about a person

who was a candidate to be the most powerful individual in the universe. I don't know anything about the impact on the brain, the concussive nature of whatever hit him in his ear, whether he's got a hematoma, whether he has post-traumatic stress disorder. If people thought he wasn't that stable and was barely making sense before, what do you think is now that he's one week out

from having some sort of projectile hit him in the top of the head? Do they think he's more capable now than he was before. Is that really it? Now, once we get rid of the ridiculous iconic photos that are now on these sneakers, I'm worried about the person that people are considering entrusting nuclear weapons to, considering entrusting nuclear weapons to, who almost got, according, and if I'm to believe the medical professionals in the form of Don Jr., Donald Trump and Ronnie Jackson, who got fired as the White House counsel because he's so incompetent, that's all I know about what happened.

That his ear, top of his ear was blown off, but that there were no stitches. What's with the bandage? And what about the next to the ear, which is the thing that holds his brain? What about that? No, no, I don't get to know about that before I have to vote. He just, it's just amazing. He gets to go back up on stage and the judges don't care about this. We're going to talk about Judge Aileen Cannon. She was so glued to the political calendar that she couldn't even for a person that has been dragging her feet and has hated this case against Donald

Trump from the day it was assigned to her and is in no rush to try the case, suddenly she's glued to the political calendar and issues her ruling we'll talk about today right after the her ruling we'll talk about today right after the shooting and the day of the convention. She can't wait till August? What was the rush? Trial's not set, but this is the masks. This is what America needs to see. The mask is now off to the extent there was ever a mask on that party to the extent there was ever a mask on that party. And its commitment to overturning the rights, legal rights, and undermining the legal institutions that are not just, you know, you and I, we didn't found this show

because we just felt like geeking out and talk, we do, but geeking out on our criminal justice and justice system, it's because it is such an important thing that undergirds our entire democracy. We say it so often that sometimes I get, you know, maybe we're not hearing it. We're at the intersection of law and politics because the law is a major steel girder that is the bedrock for our democracy, without which we don't have it. And that's what people have to go to the polls understanding. Not, I think that looks great on a t-shirt or a sneaker. We're beyond that. Our audience certainly is. Look, I want to talk about Judge Eileen Cannon's order and the ripple effects it has had where

she's not only just kind of screwed up that case, she's really screwed up other judges because now with Hunter Biden's motion to dismiss in California as well as the Delaware cases because a special counsel's prosecuting him there. And Judge Cannon in her case says that the entire concept of a special counsel is unlawful. If those judges in California and Delaware, the federal judges follow the law and they say, just because Judge Cannon did that, we're not going to do that. We think special counsels are legal.

did that, we're not going to do that. We think special counsels are legal. Those judges are now going to be perceived as political stooges helping out Donald Trump. And their credibility and reputations will now be tarnished by Judge Eileen Cannon. So she's screwing over her colleagues also, and she doesn't care. I mean, she's trying to position herself to become a

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to get their new $297 when you buy a pair offer. Plus they are adding a free extra charging case, a $100 value just for listeners of this show. That's shopMDhearing.com and use our promo code LegalAF and get their new $297 when you buy a pair offer. Welcome back to LegalAF. I'm Ben Misalas joined by Michael Popok. So Popok, we previously covered Judge Eileen Cannon's order, where she dismissed the indictment and superseding indictments, dismissed the case against Donald Trump in the Mar-a-Lago document case

where he stole nuclear codes and war plans and then concealed it when he was just asked to simply return it, at which point there wouldn't have been a case. He'd just given back war plans and nuclear codes that didn't belong to him after he left office. And she did it on the grounds that she basically made up. And she brought in these like right wing groups to try to like instruct her of what their tinfoil hat theory is about why special

councils in general are unlawful and unconstitutional. And Judge Cannon goes, you know what? I'm going to rule that the concept of a special counsel is unlawful under the appointments clause that based on unlawful appropriations. But I'm going to confine that ruling just as it relates to Donald Trump. Case dismissed, case closed, but it's having a ripple effect, right, Popak, when it comes to Hunter Biden, when it comes to other judges, you've done some hot takes on this, Kerry Scherer.

Yeah. Listen, back to your tinfoil hat routine. Yeah, listen, back to your tinfoil hat routine. I've seen this reported a number of different ways. The imagery I like is Clarence Thomas set the table and Judge Aileen Cannon sat down, tied a napkin around her neck and with knife and fork feasted. He sent her a direct message which is, if it was done, ex parte would have been unethical and illegal, but instead he baked it into a concurrence. The only reason for the concurrence was to communicate something he couldn't do privately with a judge that ultimately reports to him because he's responsible for the 11th Circuit, which sits over Florida.

And he basically told her, call, listen to me, make this simple, Aileen, Ms. Clarence, call the special counsel illegitimate, unauthorized and unconstitutional, and that case you hate will go away. Do that. And then do I have the votes for this? I don't think so. But if you do it, it will solve the problem if the problem we're trying to solve for is having no other trials against Donald Trump before November. Got it? And she basically said, got it, wrote a 93 page decision, 88 or 89 pages of which were just make weight, having nothing to do with the proper analysis, three pages devoted to the analysis, and she got it wrong. She got it wrong relying on the Landmark Foundation, a right-wing Maggoth conservative think tank

who put in a brief and she let them argue and it's the same group that was relied upon by Clarence Thomas. Edwin Meese, the 89 or 90-year-old former attorney general who went to jail wrote part of that analysis. He was the same guy that tried to intervene in Georgia when Mark Meadows and Jeffrey Clark tried to argue that they had the right to drag their case from Georgia prosecution to federal court. Edwin Meese submitted an affidavit, got his head handed to him by all the judges there. But this is the ecosystem, MAGA ecosystem in play and at play. And then once she dispatched the case, and finally, what a gift, finally gave a gift of a ruling because it's so wrong and so easily, easily seen through by a proper sober, learned panel at the 11th circuit, whoever that panel is,

any three-judge panel will do, that it's the thing that Jack Smith and his team have been waiting for desperately. Jim Pierce, this is going to be round two at the 11th Circuit. Jim Pierce argued unsuccessfully, or as you and I like to joke, as trial lawyers, he came in second when he made the argument against Emil Beauvais, who's the number two lawyer, maybe sometimes number one lawyer for Donald Trump that works with Todd Blanch. He prevailed, even though he posited some crazy things in the oral argument for that. She sided with Amiel Beauvais.

Now both of them are going to be at the 11th Circuit because they both put in their notices of appearance. Amiel Beauvais screwed his up and had to refile his because he put it under somebody else's name. But that's who's got to be now in front of the 11th circuit. In the interim, there is just this cascade of events, most of which you and I or Karen contemplated and expected what would happen.

Hunter Biden, it would be professional malpractice if Hunter Biden's lawyers had not raised this issue. So nobody fault them because he's the president's son. He's a criminal defendant. He's been convicted of gun charges. He's coming up on a tax evasion case in California, all brought by special counsel. It would be professional malpractice if his lawyers did not at least try and make the argument based on that ruling that His special counsel is illegitimate now. There's some differences in the special counsel there That even would satisfy the the crazy cannon test about who gets confirmed in Congress, but be that as it may

It happened actually probably a little bit slower than I thought it would happen on one day. And it happened two days later that Hunter would take that shot in filing the motion in two different courts, California, where he's got the indictment still pending and the one where he just got convicted but not sentenced. But we're going to see it again. Everyone who has been convicted by a special counsel, it's not just these guys, who has been convicted by a special counsel, it's not just these guys, has now the ability to take that decision

and bring it into their proceeding, no matter how old their conviction is, even if they've served their time to get it vacated, reversed, and argue that it's unconstitutional because he's not the right kind of special attorney. He's not the right kind of special attorney. He's not the right kind of inferior officer.

Even though US versus Nixon in 1974, I would posit, settled this issue by the Supreme Court in authorizing and recognizing the legitimacy of a special prosecutor appointed by the then Attorney General Robert Bork to address Richard Nixon. The only way that happened is because Bork told a congressional committee, the Watergate committee, that that's how he was going to do it and they nodded and said, okay, that's it. And she, in her order, completely ignored that and said, it's a mixed bag on the history of the use of the special counsel. No, it's not. It's settled law. It's not mixed bag. So it's going to come up as soon as we hear, and of course, you and I, Karen,

all of us, will jump on when Judge Chutkin, who's presiding over the case that's been returned to her against Donald Trump by the same special counsel, Jack Smith for the four counts for now, election interference case in DC. She hasn't yet scheduled. I predicted it'll be first week in August based on the timeline to bring all the lawyers in to talk about how to get that case back on track. She's already got, she's already groaning under the weight of the things that she has to resolve based on the Supreme Court mandate. She's got to figure out whether two of the four counts are going to survive for election, for interference with an official proceeding. She's got to decide whether what's official conduct

and what's not official conduct and what's core conduct. And now she's gonna get a motion that's gonna land on her desk any minute now by the same lawyers for Donald Trump arguing that the entirety of the the indictment should be dismissed on the same logic or lack thereof of a of a lean cannon. And so she's gonna have to deal with that which means a briefing schedule, an oral argument, and another appeal. So whether it's going to be an appeal from an 11th circuit decision, which I think will be against Donald Trump, a decision by the DC circuit, or in combination with whatever Hunter Biden does in the third circuit for Delaware, or the ninth circuit for California, you need a scorecard. And there can be either

a complete unanimity of decision-making at the appellate level that Judge Cannon was wrong, or there's a split. Somebody goes rogue there, and then the Supreme Court gets it. But what does it mean? It means that, for Trump anyway, that his case is delayed beyond the November election. Because I'll just leave it on this, Ben, the briefing schedule, even if it's expedited, and at the time of our recording live here, it hasn't been expedited yet, but it will be, I believe, in the 11th Circuit for Donald Trump's case. So even based on their timetable, the 11th Circuit, of what they did twice before in taking this thing really seriously, it's going to be a late August before they issue an opinion. Could be September, and whoever the loser is going

to try to take that to the United States Supreme Court, who's on vacation, whose new term hasn't started yet, and while they could take it out on emergency application, it would be through Clarence Thomas of all people. Now we're right back where we started. Michael Popock, let me ask you this question. If before Donald Trump was in office and before all of the craziness of MAACA, let's go to 2014, I presented you with a case in your law firm and I said, someone wants you to file a lawsuit challenging the legitimacy of the special counsel in any court. You could pick your federal judge as of 2014. Even, you know, there

were right-wing judges in 2014. What would you say in 2014, what would you tell the client who walked into your office, the percentage that you would prevail striking down the special counsel statute? What would you tell your client? Well, just to give people a little window into how you and I take on cases, or at least I do, you know, I would tell them that's an interesting proposition. My gut feeling is that's not going to work. Let me do some research. I would tell them that's an interesting proposition. My gut feeling is that's not going to work. Let me do some research. I'll come back to you. By the time I was done for the research as it existed and stood in 2014, or even as it stood three weeks ago, I would have said,

this is a dead bang loser. I can't sign my name to it because there's not even a good faith argument to get me past rule 11 or whatever the equivalent is, sanctions. Because US versus Nixon, every version of special prosecutor, special counsel, independent counsel, whatever the versions are, and regardless of the congressional involvement, have all been upheld ultimately by not only appellate courts, but by the United States Supreme Court in how they've enforced the powers of whatever title that person had. And the special counsel is no different. And they have been, the special counsel has been, let me make this clear before I give you the straight answer to your question. The special counsel here has been appropriately confirmed by Congress because it's an inferior

office as that term is used in the statute, appointed by the attorney general as a special attorney and he took an oath and he's employed by the entire team. Every direct deposit gets a direct deposit from the Department of Justice or the US Treasury because he is ultimately employed by the Department of Justice. That's why they had is ultimately employed by the Department of Justice. That's why they had to go to their boss, Merrick Garland, to get quote unquote permission to file their appeal. She's wrong about all of that.

So if I had a, so I wouldn't take it. So I would say, and if you find anyone who will file this for you, the chances of you prevailing and not having to pay costs at some point are gonna, I would put them at 5% or less. Yeah, 5% or less, maybe even 0% where you wouldn't even file the thing. You wouldn't put your name to it.

So right now though, in this current environment with these Trump judges, that calculus though is a very different calculus. People want to know my data-driven feelings about the current state of the election. You could watch my interview with Professor Lichtman. I've done a lot of takes on it. I think President Biden's been a great president. I think his record speaks for itself. I think his three and a half year record speak for itself and a data driven approach using Professor Lichtman's keys, especially the power of incumbency and the fact that the despite all the doom and gloom from the media, your 401k is probably doing much better right now than it was under Donald Trump. And the economy actually is

doing good and interest rates are going to be cut soon in September and all likelihood. The factors actually would favor on paper, President Biden being a stronger candidate. Let me focus on the legal question, why I asked you the one about Judge Eileen Cannon. Do you think, Michael Popak, there would be at least a zero to 5% chance that the Heritage Foundation or one of these groups that goes before Judge Eileen Cannon, the moment you would come up with whatever Kakamene plan, which by the way, no one's even articulated what that is, which is part of my frustration. You want to give me your plan, which no one actually gives the plan, which kind of tells you what it is that they're actually thinking, which to me is a broader problem, but I'll save that for other commentary.

But if you believe there would be a 0 to 5% chance, Republicans would contest the process and file lawsuits and say, look, President Biden won the primary, you can't switch. Would you agree that they'll come up with some theory for that, whether it's frivolous or not? Oh, oh, oh, 1000%. Their entire, what we watch every day, you and I watch as we prepare for this show and for our hot takes, is we're watching the pressure testing of America and its legal system by a full court press, regardless of legitimacy of argument being brought to bear

on federal and state courts. We have a perfect example of it to prove your point, Ben, of course. I'm sure you've thought about it, which is the 0 and 70 lawsuits, 70 lawsuits that were filed to try to cling to power and overturn the will of the people the last time got before state and federal judges and they lost and empirically and statistically if they had any merit you'd think well maybe 50-50 maybe they'd win five or ten they won none they won half of one and it didn't matter I think that was in Pennsylvania so that but that is their strategy their strategy is a portfolio approach Where no one case matters, but they're gonna file multiple cases all at the same time and try to overwhelm the

institutional Judges and legal process by sheer volume And delay delay delay by sheer volume and delay, delay, delay. It's 100% chance. And so those who watch Legal AF know, here's what the Heritage Foundation is going to do if you made a switch. Can guarantee you this is what they're gonna do.

They're going to file a lawsuit in the Northern District of Texas, and they're gonna try to judge, try to draw, Judge Matthew Kaczmarek. Oh, you're also going to, they're also going to try to file and get judge canon or try to try in a few other places, come up with some theory about invalidating whoever the Democrats think whatever plan they have, which is ridiculous in my mind in and of itself.

And then guess where it's going to go to MAGA Mike Johnson in the House of Representatives who gets to, who has to certify as part of his process at the end, and then guess where it's going to go to, to the United States Supreme Court. Now you're going to tell me that you're going to, you're going to, you're going to wing this thing with the United States Supreme Court. So I don't, the United States Supreme Court. The Supreme Court that's overturned Roe v. Wade that's overturned. With one difference, which is I want to do popachium for a minute.

This time, the vice president who will be sitting to certify ultimately is somebody named Kamala Harris. So that's a lot better odds than Mike Pence who almost did the wrong thing if it wasn't for people like Judge Ludwig giving him last-minute advice. I think now with people's legal foundation here in Legal AF, they know that even if there's any legal risk, if in your analysis you build in any shot of a percentage of legal risk that could go to the Supreme Court, I'm not believing that this Supreme... and you're going to have the Supreme Court make a decision, the one that just said Donald Trump can be a dictator?

Uh-uh. I ain't buying that. I want to remind everybody as well about Patreon, patreon.com slash legal AF. Last week we didn't post our legal AF because we were giving live coverage or lots of updated coverage about the shooting. We actually posted a video though on legal AF. So if you want to see last week's legal AF,

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in Donald Trump's life are also criminals as well. I mean, right now you have Steve Bannon, who's in prison and who's been, who's also being prosecuted for the We Build the Wall felony scam out of the, in New York as well. Trump pardoned him.

We saw at the Republican National Convention, convicted felon Paul Manafort. I know Donald Trump goes, Russia, Russia, Russia felon, Paul Manafort. I know Donald Trump goes Russia, Russia, Russia. You know, Manafort was there. Manafort literally represented like Russian oligarchs. He was convicted in two federal cases. Donald Trump pardoned him. You had, what's the guy who spoke at the convention?

Literally, he walked in. Peter Navarro. Peter Navarro showed up right out of jail. From jail. From jail. And then, you know, you have the people holding up the signs, send them home, send the mass deportations, you know, mass deportations now. So you have all of that going on and we didn't get a lot of attention, but it's worth talking about it intersects with Steve Bannon as well as this Miles Guo trial. Miles Guo was convicted of nine out of the 12 felony counts that he

was charged with. The serious felony counts that he was convicted of will likely sentence things in November, but I think this guy will probably go to jail for the rest of his life. Basically this guy came here from China 2014, 2015, self-exiled after he was brought up on corruption charges. There he kind of framed himself as the like anti, um, uh, president G anti Xi Jinping, you know, movement here. But then what it seemed, even though in theory he was rallying, you know, people who were part of the, you know, China's diaspora here, and he would then basically grift off of them, make these pledges to them that if they gave him his money, he would

invest it. Then he ended up, he's now been convicted of it, buying himself a $50 million penthouse, a $3.5 million Ferrari and Lamborghinis and a million dollar chandeliers and lived this lavish lifestyle, stealing from his investors. Then he would take the money, a lot of it too, and to get in the good graces with the MAGA world. He would fund all of the MAGA media. And there's so many people who work for Trump who are on Miles Guo's payroll and they would go to his place. You may remember the January 6th committee played that audio recording where Steve Bannon addressed a group of people before the November

2020 election and said that Trump's going to claim he won no matter what the result was. That was Miles Guo's home with Miles Guo's crowd right there. When Steve Bannon was arrested the first time for the federal We Build the Wall scam that Donald Trump partnered him for, he was on Miles Guo's yacht, one of the things that Miles Guo bought when he stole money from people. So it just shows you this whole world is grifty and criminal. And mind you, Patrick Orlando, who was the leader of the Trump SPAC, he was charged by the SEC with securities fraud this past week as well. So there's a common denominator here.

And then you had that like reality star lady who gave the speech and she'd like attack the Fulton County district attorney because like her family pled guilty to fraud or family was charged with fraud and try to relate that to like, they're coming after us. And so let's we'll talk about this miles a go out come just because, you know, at the core Pope office, there's a lot of people committing crimes in Trump's world. That's a lot of people committing crimes in Trump's world. That's a good handoff. Yeah, that is true. One of the things I just posited on Hot Take that's running now is there's a reason that Donald Trump is surfing what he believes is a wave of some sort of misplaced goodwill because of the Pennsylvania events that he then quickly converts into crass transactional depraved fundraising with the $199 sneakers. But in addition to that, there's a reason he's not announcing who his cabinet is. He picks a 39-year-old shape-shifting, sometimes bearded, sometimes beardless, when he's here. Here's how to know the difference with JD Vance. When he's telling the truth about Donald Trump, that he is America's

Hitler, that he is the needle in the arm of America, is a narcotic that's leading America to a bad and dark place, a loser who can't win and he won't vote for him. That's when he's not wearing the beard. When he wears the beard, that's where you know he's totally turned himself into a pretzel in his bootlicking in order to advance a career that really was insubstantial.

It was, as they say in Texas, it was all hat and no cattle. He was, you know, he was a fabulous in writing his quote unquote memoir, and he's been living off of that ever since. And when he's not taking money from Silicon Valley, you know, entrepreneurs like Peter Thiel, who supported Hulk Hogan and went after

Gawker because Gawker outed him in a sexual identity. He then paid them back by supporting Terry Hulk Hogan's suit against them for a porn tape. This is apparently the credentials you need to get onto a stage of the Republican National Convention. And if you're hand handpicked by Peter Thiel and by Elon Musk, you get to be vice president. The reason the cabinet hasn't been announced, because normally when you want to give people comfort, that you have good people that you'll be taking back into office. When all your original people have either completely renounced you And when all your original people have either completely renounced you or have been indicted or unindicted co-conspirators with you, lost their bar licenses and or have been convicted,

I'd like to know, the American people would like to know who's in your cabinet, who are your big four, who's your attorney general, who's your defense secretary, who is your commerce and who's your treasury secretary, who is your commerce and who's your treasury, and by the way, an attorney general. And by the way, let me know how many of those people you've either pardoned, are going to have to pardon, commuted their sentence or have gone to jail for you. I'd like to know that as an American. And I think we demand an answer. There's a reason that Bill Clinton, in order to sort of settle some troubled waters around his campaign, and the same thing with Obama, they announced right off the back of their vice presidential pick, they announced their full cabinets and had photos

taken with them. Well, the problem here is half the people that he would probably take photos with are still serving time. And isn't that a reflection of the judgment of somebody? If your attorney, if the people that you and I are even speculating about for attorney general consists of Aileen Cannon, Rudy Giuliani and Alina Haba and Jeff Clark, we're in trouble. But that is a reflection, you know, for people that are like, miss the mean tweets and the cheap gas or whatever the phrase is, think about what an administration does domestically in foreign policy as the leader of the free world and the United States Supreme Court. And so, does it surprise me? Look, we have felons on our side of the aisle.

Menendez got convicted. There are Democrats that do bad things, but when they do bad things, we don't hesitate to prosecute them, investigate them, prosecute them, and seek their conviction. That's the difference. We respect the criminal justice system. We respect the work of the people who are devoted to our criminal justice system from the top to the bottom. And so does it shock me that a major fundraiser that Steve Bannon, by the way, side note on Steve Bannon, while he was not able to attend the Republican National Convention, national convention because he had a date with his prison warden because he's in a prison right now. His daughter, apparently they were able to get an open line. I don't know, he stood at the payphone

all day in the rec room at the prison and the daughter was recording or FaceTiming with him. We got to increase security around Bana by way, if that's what he's doing. Is he like slipping out his podcast in little audio files while he's inside there? I thought he's supposed to be making license plates. I mean, enough. But I want to know who the cabinet is. And I want to know, like, if this guy, Miles Gwang, he hadn't been, whatever his name is, hadn't been convicted now, would he have been, you know, like the

chairperson of the fundraising committee, arm of the Republican National Committee? Yes, he would have. And if Trump gets in, this guy is going to get pardoned, not at the end of four years, at the beginning, in the first hundred days. That's something we're going to keep an eye on. Don't let anybody fool you. Usually it's the last thing you do on the way out because you don't have to worry about the politics any longer. And so you do like this whole hundreds of people get pardoned, sentences

commuted, clemency and the like. Not Donald Trump. Donald Trump will be using a pen to pardon people like the first or second day if he ever gets anywhere near the Oval Office. As you talk about who would be lining up, who would be the leaders in that, one of the people who are closest to Donald Trump, the cabinets in that, in the administration, one of the people closest to Donald Trump is someone by the name of Laura Loomer. We did a video showing who Laura Loomer. And we did a video showing who like Laura Loomer is and who these people are. But I'll just show you the post she made today.

And I think this is a fitting way to end it, but also show people the threats that we are dealing with and how serious this is. Our heart goes out to the family of Sheila Jackson Lee, the long serving democratic Congresswoman. I mean, she was an incredible advocate for democracy, an incredible advocate for black Americans, just an incredible politician. And she passed away earlier in the day.

Laura Loomer, who's always at Mar-a-Lago with Donald Trump, who's at the convention. Donald Trump always gives her shout outs, makes videos with her. She's one of the, and again, this is where, come on media, do a little bit of reporting. She's as close to Donald Trump as you can be, and she would have undoubtedly a major role in the Trump administration. It's undisputed. Here's what she said today about Sheila Jackson Lee. Even on her deathbed, it's hard for me to even read it, this ghetto B word couldn't

keep Trump's name out of her disgusting mouth. I'd say rest in peace, but we all know lying Democrats who have destroyed our country are going to hell. Sheila Jackson Lee will be remembered as a destructive force in America. I can't even read the rest of it. Good riddance exclamation point is how it ends. I just can't even read it. But that's the person who's joined at the hip with Donald

Trump, who goes to all of his events, who he gives shout outs to and someone like Laura Loomer is going to be appointed to a major position that's going to be making life or death, the decisions for you and your family and your neighbors and your grandkids and your children and friends and this country. That's not okay. That's not okay. I don't want to be in a country of Hulk Hogan, oh yeah, we're going for you. Or like Laura Loomer or Marjorie Taylor Greene or Matt Gates. And to me, as we've always said, you know, that's

not a political perspective. It's just that that's horrific, that statement that she just said, that's horrible human behavior. And it seems over and over again, criminals, crooks, and people who behave in, I think, despicable ways, even if they're not actually criminals or crooks, but people who behave in, I think, despicable ways, even if they're not actually criminals or crooks, but people who behave just in a horrible way, are leaders in, as you said, Michael Popak, it doesn't mean that everyone who's a Democrat

are angelic and they're great. The question is, where's your leadership, where's your core, and where is your moral compass, and who are the leaders and who are in charge? And it's not even close, you know, in my view. And so I'll end it with this, you know, when I see in President Biden, someone who is 81 years old, but who has accomplished in three and a half years more than almost any president in the history of the country. If you go through the list of things that he has accomplished with age comes wisdom. He used to be a great debater.

Is he a great debater? No. Is he a good debater? No. Does he stutter? Yes. But is he a kindheartedhearted, good decision-maker? Has he shown that over the past three and a half years?

Absolutely, you know, in my mind. And then if you say, okay, but can we win? Can we win? Can we win? And by that, can democracy win? Will democracy prevail? And then I think the question is, you know, go look at the interview I did with Professor Lichtman.

Understand the power of incumbency. Understand how people will think when they go into the ballot box who aren't in politics every day or watching the news every day. They're going to say, hey, is my 401k doing better? Am I generally okay with the direction of this country? They may not even be following any news. And they're going to go, oh, do don't want to keep things the way they are. Or do I want to go back to tweets in the morning and drama and Hannah

Hannah Belector and Hulk Hogan and drama every day. People are going to think that way. And so at the outset, when I talked about why was it that Trump was under performing his five 38 polling in the primaries between five and 20% other than in North Carolina, but in every other state by massive amounts. That's actual empirical data taken from primaries. In this show, what we do here is we talk about the cases, we talk about facts, we talk about law, we go through it step by step. We have beliefs, we have opinions. And those

opinions to me transcend the politics. They're about humanity. So I hope that's what you appreciate about the show. We greatly appreciate you. We don't have outside investors. You all see how broken the media is. So if you want to help build this platform, one way to do it's through that Patreon. And you'll get, we'll get updates there and, and Popok and I, we're going to announce another partner, meeting, an associate meeting, we'll meet with everybody on Patreon. So if you ever wanted to meet Michael Popok and myself, join patreon.com slash legal AF. But just in general, you know, if you're fed up and you're tired of the media, they're funded by billions of dollars.

You know, we got our Patreon, we got our emojis, and we got our pro-democracy sponsors. And that's all we need, honestly. That's all we need. And just to prove your point, if Laura Loomer was a Democrat and she had written that disgusting depraved piece of trash, we would immediately have canceled her, ostracized her, and thrown her out of the party, and she would never have gotten – she wouldn't have been able to be elected dog catcher in our party after that. But in her party, she celebrated, she's given a platform and a possible position in the White House. And that says all that if you needed the difference between the two parties, that's all you need.

Michael Popock, Legal AF. Thanks everybody for watching. Hit subscribe. Let's get to three million. Have a great rest of your weekend. And I just want to leave you with this. I'm confident. I feel good.

I truly, truly do. And if you need to take a day off here or there, get some rest and relax. All good. I feel really, really good about this. Okay? Hit subscribe. We'll see you next time.