Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump SCREWS Himself, Delivers MASSIVE GIFT to Criminal Prosecutors

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

Trumps testimony today gave Alvin Bragg more evidence to consider when deciding whether to bring companion criminal charges against him. Former Prosecutor and Legal AF Host, Karen Friedman Agnifilo reports. Head to https://REELPAPER.com/LEGALAF and sign up for a subscription using code LEGALAF at checkout, and automatically get 30% off your first order and FREE SHIPPING! Visit https://meidastouch.com for more! Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Donald Trump testified in his civil fraud trial today. What does that mean for his criminal exposure? He didn't take the fifth. What does that mean? Looks talk about exactly what that means and looks break it all down. Donald Trump is currently on trial in New York state. He's being sued civilly by the New York State Attorney General under a statute that allows her to enforce laws,

civil laws against people doing business in New York State if she believes and has evidence to prove that they committed persistent fraud. That's under a New York executive law section 6312. And it's a persistent fraud statute. Now, it's complicated because there was also a criminal case going on that we heard about that sounded very familiar, right?

New York Attorney General Leticia James, she is not a Biden appointee or colleague, the way Trump has said, she's actually independently elected by the people of the state of New York to be the Attorney General. She has nothing to do with the federal government or Joe Biden. And she is part of her job is to make sure that businesses run properly and that

people don't grift or commit fraud and and have it. You'll gotten gains or or get rich off of doing things unfairly, right? So, but what's the difference between that and a crime? It won civil, won criminal. That's a great question. If you find it confusing because I was a prosecutor for three decades and I find it confusing. So I wanna try to break it down so that we can all understand it. Now when I worked for Sive Ants,

we were, the office was in the process of, it was very public. They had a big investigation into Donald Trump and the Trump organization. And if you remember, they brought, we brought a case against the Trump organization that was tried under the new Manhattan DA, Alvin Bragg. And they got a 17 count criminal conviction against the corporation, the Trump organization, for tax fraud, and that's where Alan Weiselberg testified. And there was another, that was handed to Alvin Bragg when he became DA, because Syvance, his term ended and he chose not to run again.

And so that's when I left. And I never worked for Alvin Bragg. And but the other thing that Syvance handed over to Alvin Bragg was an investigation, a criminal investigation, and it was a joint investigation alongside Latisha James, so the two were working together. And it was a joint investigation, one was civil, one was criminal. And Sivance didn't, although he has said publicly, he thought there was sufficient evidence to go into the grand jury, he decided not to make that decision

for the new DA, Alvin Bragg would instead hand it over the investigation to allow him to make the decision about whether or not he felt there was enough. And Alvin Bragg's background comes from the Attorney General's office, actually. He spent most of his career at the Attorney General's office. Actually, he spent most of his career at the Attorney General's office. So there were things that that he knew, I think, and ways that he thought that were different than a typical prosecutor thought, right? I came up in the prosecutor's

office where we don't have criminal depositions. We don't, we can't call defendants to the stand during trials in our direct case because they'll take the fit. And there are, so there's different rules of the road. There's different, there's different standards of proof. In a criminal case, it's beyond, you have to prosecutors have to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt. Whereas in a civil case, the, the, the civil plaintiff here, the attorney general only has to, still has to prove their case, but it's a much lower standard. It's not beyond reasonable doubt. It's by the preponderance.

So the evidence in the way it's been described, often to juries is think of two scales that are equal and you put a feather on one and it just moves it a little bit. That's the preponderance of the evidence. So it's just more likely than not, essentially. And so the question was, you know, sivants and Alvin Bragg, I think that they were, there was clear that there was fraud in this case, but was a proof beyond a reasonable doubt. And I think that's always been the question. Well, Latisha James felt there was enough. And so she brought this 225 page civil complaint. It's a sweeping, massive complaint that seeks the corporate debt penalty against Donald Trump. It's basically wants to run him out of town so that he can never do business again and make him sell everything and pay around $250 million in discoredged profits.

Now, that is what her case is about, but what has been happening to the criminal case investigation that Alvin Bragg has said still is pending and still is under investigation. Now, if you recall, there were two senior prosecutors in the office, Mark Pomerance, and Kerry Dunn, who resigned after the decision by Alvin Bragg was made not to bring the case at that time. It seemed very public and somewhat dramatic, and there was a leaked resignation letter

and one of them, Mark Pomeran's wrote a book, etc. And there's a lot of questions about, is that case still pending? And Alvin Bragg has said his investigation is still opening and looks, look at what he has gotten since he has kept the case open, right? Donald Trump, the first time was deposed, he took the fifth over and over and over and over and over again. But I think he, Donald Trump realized that if you take the fifth in a civil case, the judge is allowed to draw an adverse inference against you, meaning they can just assume, okay, how do you answer that question? It would have been negative or bad for you. You can essentially assume the worst. Again,

something you don't have in a criminal case. Proving a case beyond the reasonable doubt, it's not something that you take lightly as a prosecutor. It's hard, and you have to run down every possible defense, every possible issue. And of course, when you're gonna bring a case against the former president of the United States who's a very difficult person on the stand, we learned when he testified in Judge and Gora on's case, I think you're gonna make sure that you are able to prove each and every element beyond a reasonable doubt.

Now, so what else has, what else has, has, has, has, the criminal case? what else has Alba Bragg now gotten because he has waited? He has, when Donald Trump was deposed a second time, he no longer took the fifth and he answered questions. So that's a whole, I think, seven hours worth of information that they got from him. They also got him to testify today. In the civil case, there's been, I think, over 25 witnesses or around that number that have testified, including lots of documents and emails, et cetera, but at least four of

the witnesses so far have been defendants. Again, something you can't do in a criminal case because the person will take the fifth, but in the civil case, it's fair game. You can call the defendant to the stand. And so they have had the insiders testify under oath about what they did and what they didn't do. Right, you have the Mr. McConney, who was former financial.

He was one of the financial officers of the Trump organization. You have Alan Weiselberg, who was the CFO of the organization. You had Don Jr. and Eric Trumpen. Trees are a renewable resource, but not an unlimited resource. Because let's be honest, trees don't grow on trees. Everyday companies are clear-cutting forests just to produce toilet paper. Trees in wood are an amazing resource, but it doesn't make sense to use them to make a product that we use once and flush away.

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slash legalaf, and sign up for a subscription using my code legal AF at checkout, you'll automatically get 30% off your first order and free shipping. That's R-E-E-L-P-A-P-E-R dot com slash legal AF or enter promo code legal AF to get 30% off your first order plus free shipping. Let's make a change for good this year and switch to real paper. Real is paper for the planet. And Don, Jr. and Eric Trump essentially testified and said, look, yeah, we were placeholders while our dad was president.

We're just the big picture guys. And we relied on the experts. We had, you know, he basically pointed, they basically pointed to Jeff Mokhani, Alan Weiselberg, and the Maysars firm, which was their long-term accountants and through them under the bus, but basically said, they didn't try to walk away and say, oh, you know, we disagree with the numbers, know the numbers are wrong. They didn't do anything like that. they didn't try to walk away and say, oh, we disagree with the numbers, no, the numbers are wrong. They didn't do anything like that. They didn't really dispute the facts.

They just said it wasn't us. If there's unclean hands here, it's not us. Don Jr., even though I went to Wharton Business School, I don't know anything about generally accepted accounting principles or valuing assets, but whatever, it wasn't me. Well, Mr. Trump, former president Trump testified, and he, now that's one more piece of evidence now that Alvin Bragg has, and he's going to also have Ivanka Trump who's testifying later this week.

In addition to the information that Alvin Bragg is getting under oath, he's locking in the defenses. So they're not going to change their testimony in a criminal case. And they also see how all the witnesses are doing on the stand at trial, right? All the witnesses that were called. So I think it was a really smart move to wait and to see how this went and to reevaluate the case once all this information is in, to see can you prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt, giving it, given all the new information that they have. And what's sort of interesting about this case is, you know, there were seven cases charges that were brought by Latisha James, right?

One of them, this executive law 6-3-12 that calls for persistent fraud, was already found, Trump's already been found libel and guilty essentially, civilly guilty of that offense because Judge Arthur and Goron on the papers, you know, you do a motion for summary judgment, which looks at all of the evidence and takes all of the facts, including the pleatings and the depositions and everything that has come out during the course of the case, short of trial, and said, on the papers, with everything on the record that we have here, the attorney, I find that the attorney general has proven by a by a condor in the evidence that that Trump committed this this fraud. So

that's already been found, but there's six other charges that are still left and and those charges basically are the same as count number one, this persistent fraud, but have a second element, right? One is persistent fraud plus false filing a business record, another persistent fraud plus false filing a business record plus persistent illegality plus issuing a false statement and then repeated in persistent fraud plus false financial statements and conspiracy to commit insurance fraud, plus persistent financial financial fraud. So you get it, right? It's count one plus a crime essentially. And so what's interesting about it is these are the same crimes that Alvin Bragg would prosecute

minus the persistent fraud part. So in essence, they incorporate by reference a criminal statute. And so if the judge here, judge Arthur and Goran finds Trump libel or guilty under any of the remaining six counts, what he's essentially saying is that Trump is guilty of a New York state crime, but as the preponderance of the evidence standard, which is a lower standard than beyond a reasonable doubt. And so Trump don't, so that'll be very interesting, depending on what Judge and Gauron's ruling is. And Donald Trump today, when he testified, he really, really gave some good information that I think is going to be very hard for at least the judge from this lower burden approved standpoint to not find him liable for many of these charges

because they have to prove that his conduct was intentional and that these falsehoods were material. Again, something you don't have to prove for the first count. You have to prove for the counts two through seven, the remaining six counts. And I think his intent was proven today. When he said, sure, I observed, you know, I was part of the valuations. I was involved. Sometimes I thought they were undervalued and Iations. I was involved. Sometimes I thought they, they were undervalued and I thought they should be higher. Sometimes I thought they were overvalued. So he admitted today involvement unlike his sons. He's also sometimes said, well, I paid, you know, expensive accountants and I relied on them and if they had a problem with it,

they could have sent it back. But they were using numbers that he gave them. And, and Michael Cohen testified, look, we knew what he Trump wanted when he said, you know, make it higher. We knew that that meant make the numbers higher. And, you know, he said it was like a like a mob boss the way he says it. Everybody knows what he wants, what the boss wants. And so it'll be very interesting to see if Judge Angoran finds him liable of counts two through seven. If he does not, that will tell you something about the criminal case. And because if you can't even meet that standard by a preponderance of the evidence, you certainly

can't meet it beyond a reasonable doubt. And so that will be very interesting to watch and see. But Alvin Bragg was smart to wait and evaluate the evidence and see what would come out at this trial. We'll see if he, if what if he changes his mind or decides to bring the case after all is said and done. And we'll see what Judge Angora does. You know, he might, he might find him liable for some and not others. By the way, if he does do that, it will take away one of Trump's major appellate arguments that he's going to argue that this judge was biased against me, that the fix was in from the start, that he wasn't really listening, that he

wasn't open-minded. If the judge doesn't find him liable for all the counts, it totally eviscerates that argument. And it shows that the judge was listening. I mean, if he finds him liable for all the counts, he'll make that same argument. But this would, that would really show that he's paying close attention. But like I said, I also think it, it definitely will, will make Alvin Bragg think as well.

So, you know, it's a different standard of proof. It's the same case, different standard of proof, same evidence. And we'll see if we can get over this hurdle and find him liable. But certainly, if you can't get over this hurdle, you're never going to get to be on a reasonable doubt. But like I said, super smart for Alvin Bragg to wait because the statements that Donald Trump made under oath, if Alvin Bragg decides to bring, these charges, you can use those statements in your criminal case. So he's got all this evidence that they didn't

have before. So stay tuned, we'll see what this means. And we'll see what happens in the civil case. Stay tuned for Ivanka Trump this week. That'll be the next one to watch. And then the Attorney General's case should wrap up shortly after that. Donald Trump on the stand promised that bankers are going to testify and say that they would have given him money anyway. That this didn't matter. That these, that these wasn't material.

And look, see if he, if he meets his promise and, and, and he can actually call witnesses who will are willing to testify to that or if it's just going to be another empty promise on his behalf. But I'm Karen Friedman Agnifala with legal AF. Thanks so much for tuning in. Hey, mydice mighty. Love this report. Continue the conversation by following us on Instagram. Atmidestouch. Keep up with the most important news of the day. What are you waiting for? Follow us now.