Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump SHUT OUT of NY TOP COURT

Episode Date: June 20, 2024

Michael Popok and Karen Friedman Agnifilo are back for the midweek edition of the top-rated Legal AF podcast. On this episode, the anchors discuss and debate: (1) whether Judge Merchan will lift the gag order against Trump (now affirmed by NY’s top appellate court) before the upcoming presidential debate, or is that a good reason to keep it in place; (2) whether the new MAGA-driven House resolution to de-legitimize the Jan6 Committee, and sully the name of those that fought and died on Capitol Hill, will have the intended legal and political benefit Trump wants; (3) whether the DOJ will reopen the Matt Gaetz file now that the House Ethics Committee is closing in on him and his sex crime allegations; and so much more at the intersection of law and politics. Join the Legal AF Patreon: https://Patreon.com/LegalAF Thanks to our sponsors: Lume: Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with Lume deodorant and get $5 off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo code legalaf at https://LumeDeodorant.com! #lumepod HumanN: Find out how you can get a free 30-day supply on bundles of new SuperBeets Heart Chews Advanced and save 15% for a limited time only by going to https://SUPERBEETSRADIO.COM, promo code LEGALAF Laundry Sauce: For 15% off your order head to https://LaundrySauce.com/LEGALAF and use code LEGALAF OneSkin: Get started today at https://OneSkin.co and receive 15% Off using code: LEGALAF Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/lights-on-with-jessica-denson On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/coalition-of-the-sane/id1741663279 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Your teen requested a ride, but this time not from you. It's through their Uber Teen account. It's an Uber account that allows your teen to request a ride under your supervision with live trip tracking and highly rated drivers. Add your teen to your Uber account today. Welcome to the midweek edition of Legal AF, exclusively on the Midas Touch Network. You've got your regular anchors, Karen Freeman-Ignifilo, close friend and colleague of mine here, me, Michael Popok. And let's kick it off, not just with a list of things that we're going to talk about.

And trust me, we've got a lot to talk about. People might be thinking, well, this is a slow-nosed news week. There hasn't been a Trump conviction or a recent Supreme Court decision that impacts any of the things that we normally talk about, but we got a lot to talk about. But we'd be remiss if we didn't kick it off since we are podcasting, YouTubing on the day of a federal holiday because of our president, President Biden, recognizing the importance of the holiday that had been celebrated for years and decades in the black community as Juneteenth. Juneteenth is not just something Joe Biden made up in 2021 and made it a federal holiday. It had been for years celebrated

as part of the black culture, black experience in America to celebrate. I mean, technically it's the day that in Galveston, Texas, the federal orders made their way in I think 1857 to announce that the slaves had been freed by Lincoln because this is how news traveled back then. But the holiday has meant much more than that. Frederick Douglass has a famous line where he said, what does July 4th or the 4th of July mean to a slave? And that started a national conversation and

a conversation in the black community about what is their day to celebrate. And I was fortunate enough a couple of months ago to visit for the first time the National Museum on the African American History and Culture. They have up on their website, I thought, a very good explanation of what's going on here with Juneteenth, and I wanted to bring it to your attention and what it means to the African American, the black community, and by extension, those that appreciate black history and black Americans.

And they said on their website today, as in June, sorry, in 2021, Juneteenth was established as a federal holiday by President Biden, opening it to symbolic and global interpretation and providing a better understanding of the evolution of our nation and its people. Juneteenth celebrations then, like now, recognize the ongoing fight for human rights and equality and are commemorated through family cookouts, faith services, musical performances, and storytelling. Today, Juneteenth celebrates

African-American resilience and achievement while aiding in the preservation of those historical narratives that promoted racial and personal advancement since Freedom Day. And then the quote from the director of the museum ends it with, as we continue to celebrate Juneteenth as a federal holiday, we remember and recognize how the black community continues to make a way out of no way, overcoming trials and celebrating triumphs while honoring the place and price of freedom. And I wanted to kick it off there, Karen, with recognizing that on a day in the middle of the week

that some people may not even understand why they had to day off or didn't have to day off or didn't have to day off. I thought we would kick off since we're so focused on liberty, on freedom, on the pillars that undergird our constitutional republic and our democracy. I wanted to do it with a tip of our hat collectively to those that celebrate who celebrated Juneteenth before it was a federal holiday and those that celebrate it now. I think that's lovely. And I'm so glad that you did that

and that you took the time to really call that out. And so we could acknowledge it. It's really important. And I'm just happy to be here with you. And Popak, a couple more days left and then is your big day. Five days left and it's your big day. You're going to be big daddy. For those that are tuning in late, my wife and I are about to give birth to our first child, which please, Legal AF and Midas Mighty, not only a shout out, prayer beads, lit candles, any

kind of whatever your religion or no religion is, send it out into the cosmos in support. But we're checking in Sunday night to the baby hospital as they call it these days, used to be the old maternity ward. And hopefully we're checking out a day or two later with our daughter. So anyway. And anyone who knows your wife, she is just this incredible, incredible woman

who just somehow makes everything look easy. And she has this, the pregnancy, as we were saying offline, I was saying for anyone who's seen the movie, what to expect when you're expecting. Popok's wife reminds me of the Cooper stepmom who was pregnant with twins, whereas I was like the stepdaughter, my pregnancy. So anyone who knows that movie will know the difference. But yeah, your wife

is just one of the most incredible women. She's just amazing, brilliant, strong, and she is going to get through this beautifully. And I'm really excited for you guys. I had the pleasure and the honor of taking my wife out for what I think will be our last night out of until the pregnancy until the birth the other night in Manhattan and did a late a day a late lunch last Saturday in New York and She just looks so it was splendid and glowing and I took a video that I put up on my Instagram I got like a ridiculous amount of views and it's just I just wrote I just wrote grace in pregnancy you know personified anyway that's enough about me trust me I

appreciate it I appreciate your I've always appreciated your friendship and your support but let's talk about what we're gonna to talk about, which I'll just do it quickly at the top of the show. Then we're going to dive right in. We're going to talk about the gag order and all things about what's going on in the New York proceedings, because, you know, the conviction was necessary and important, but what happens after is even more important, which is the ultimate sentencing and whether Judge Bershaw as the trial judge

is going to lift his gag order or the amended gag order to stop Donald Trump from attacking witnesses and prosecutors and staff and other elements of the criminal justice system at Nausium while he continues to be a part of the criminal justice system all the way through sentencing and then beyond. He is branded now a felon and the decision I believe the reporting is that Judge Murchon is going to make a decision about the gag order in advance of the debate which is in nine days. So what you might have heard in the headline that we will talk about is that the highest court in New York, which is the Court of Appeals, has ruled that there is no constitutional issue that's been raised by Donald Trump's attempt at the interlocutory stage before the final judgment stage to have his gag order vacated or removed or have

the judge's decision reversed. Even though Stephen Chung, his spokesperson for Trump, keeps saying it's an unconstitutional gag order, not according to the Court of Appeals. We're going to talk about all the things that are going to go into the ultimate July 11th sentencing, what we've probably picked up in the last week or two to update our audience, and then this gag order decision and what it means, if anything, for Judge Rashaan's ultimate decision about whether he's going to lift that gag order or not. And then we've got this kind of crazy talk, you know, talk about taking the train to crazy town. We've got a MAGA MAGA Congress who is obviously the puppeteer is Donald Trump and he's decided to make them dance and the thing that he wants to make them dance over to give him some

campaign fodder is well with Bannon going away in July on his sentencing why don't you guys after four years get around to trying to declare the Jan 6 committee illegitimate and everything it did illegitimate and all the findings that it made and the thousands of the hundreds of witnesses that it interviewed and the thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of hours of video that it reviewed and all of the hearings and the analysis that went into it just just say that was never mind nothing to see here and delegit the hearings and the analysis that went into it. Just say that was never mind, nothing to see here, and delegitimize it. And then by extension vacate all of the subpoenas that were issued to Navarro and Meadows and Dan Scavino and Bannon while you're at it. And then when you do that, there's the group there. We got representative Tom Massey, representative Andy Biggs,

representative Eric Burleson, all election and Jan 6 deniers of the first order. I mean seriously, if you go back and look at everything they've done, they've either been subpoenaed by the Congress themselves and the Jan 6 committee and have refused to attend and should have been found in contempt like Andy Biggs or they're just big time, they don't like the word insurrection. And therefore they they wouldn't they wouldn't get behind medals, congressional medals for Capitol Police and Metro Police. And they also didn't like the term, you know, cradle of our democracy or temple of our democracy is describing the Capitol and so they voted against it. These crazies now are going to try to pass a resolution because this do nothing Magna Congress can't do a thing for the American people so all they do

are these kind of ridiculous theatrical kabuki theater show pieces you know show impeachments and show, let's go after Hunter Biden and Joe Biden and Majorca and all crap. And so that's, this is the latest one. We're gonna talk about it. If it is a DOA, dead on arrival, will it ever pass? What does it mean? And does it stop Steve Bannon from reporting to the Federal Bureau of Prisons in July. And so we got that to talk about. And then Matt Gaetz is back in the news as he ever left. Matt Gaetz, you know, facts and investigative facts

are a sticky thing. They're hard to get, they're stubborn. They're hard to get rid of. And the thing that seems to be hard to get rid of are the allegations against Matt Gaetz that he had sex with an underage girl, likely out of the country after plying her with alcohol and drugs. The reason it keeps coming up like a bad penny is because there are people, by the way, that are serving time in jail, like Joel Greenberg, who was effectively Matt Gaetz's wingman.

He had been the Seminole County tax assessor. He's in jail. He's been cooperating with the Department of Justice and has given testimony to the House Ethics Committee, which is a bipartisan committee. It's one of the only committees in Congress that is equally 9-9, I think it is, Republican and Democrat. And so, you know, they just came out with their new announcement about what they are continuing to investigate Matt Gaetz about and what they've stopped investigating Matt Gaetz about. But that's the only two categories. It's either we have concluded our investigation about it or we are continuing our investigation about it. And there's been a lot of reporting about people that have gone in, including the, the, she's now an adult, but the person who was the underage girl and Greenberg, who's serving time for doing

the thing that the House Ethics Committee is investigating Matt Gaetz over. The Department of Justice, you may recall, started an investigation under Bill Barr, meaning Trump, but then concluded the investigation under Biden, meaning Merrick Garland, without bringing charges. But what about now that the Ethics Committee says they're going back and they're continuing to investigate, based on the facts and the evidence that they have, the underage sex crimes of Matt Gates? And Matt Gates thinks this is all grand conspiracy by Kevin McCarthy, of all things, who's no longer in the house.

And it's certainly not the speaker to go to get them. And this feud, this blood feud that's broken out between the two of them, or at least on the Gates side, where he where he tells former speaker Kevin McCarthy to his face to F off. It's just, I mean, these are the people that other people in America are thinking about turning over the keys of our democracy to for another term. I just don't know what to say.

But I know who I want to talk to about it. I want to talk to about it with my colleague Karen Freeman, Agnifilo, who not only number two in the prosecutor's office, Manhattan DA's office, but has a vast experience in prosecuting successfully sex crimes. I want to talk to her about that. So why don't we dive in, Karen? Let's go. So much to talk about. Why don't you lead off with the gag order? Let me kick it off with a question. Do you think that Mershon, where the issue does sit, it's not with the appeals court as we will talk about,

it's with Mershon. Do you think he should or will and or will lift the gag order in advance of the debate? Or does the upcoming debate only strengthen his hand to keep the gag order in advance of the debate? Or does the upcoming debate only strengthen his hand to keep the gag order in place since the debate happens before the sentencing? I mean, I don't see any reason to ever lift the gag order with respect to the jurors. There's no reason for him to ever be able to comment on the jurors who sat for this case. It could impact other people's willingness to sit for jury service. He's somebody who has a long history of calling for violence, et cetera. And it's just really crazy that anyone would ever consider that a right or a First Amendment right to put jurors in jeopardy.

You know, as Donald Trump famously said in the Caitlin Collins town hall on CNN, my followers listen to me like no one else. And if he starts doing things to the jurors, you've got another Seamus, Ruby, Freeman situation where people's lives are ruined just for volunteering and doing their civic duty. So I don't think that will ever happen with the jurors, nor should it. Like I said, there's no reason to ever talk about them. And I think it's actually fascinating that we've not heard, they haven't come forward, they've maintained their anonymity. I applaud them for that.

I think it's smart and nothing is leaked. Nobody has figured it out. Nobody has said anything. And so therefore they have really, really kind of dodged a bullet, literally and figuratively. So I don't see that part of the gag order ever being lifted. I would say the same thing about the family members

of the prosecutor and the court staff. There's no reason to ever go after family members either, or the various people who are civil servants and who are doing their jobs. The gag order doesn't prevent Donald Trump from speaking out against Alvin Bragg or Judge Marshawn. And so he can do and criticize and talk about the case all he wants.

The one area that I think the judge might modify it has to do with some of the witnesses. Now I don't know that he will lift it as to all witnesses because again, it just impacts the ability, like future people who might become witnesses if you know that you'll be protected for a little while, but not forever. It could really chill witnesses from wanting to come forward. So however, I could see a carve out that has to do with people like Michael Cohen, who although I don't think he should be threatened, and I think the power that Donald Trump has compared to any power, she has none, Michael Cohen has,

even the audience that each of them have is just not comparable. Donald Trump is much, the power dynamic is, he's much, much more powerful, obviously. That being said, Michael Cohen speaks publicly about Donald Trump. And so I can imagine a scenario where the judge would say, you can respond to that. Stormy Daniels has remained quiet. And but if she were to change that, maybe he would change that. I don't know. I could see that. That's the area that I could see the judge potentially

making some exceptions. But the rest, I don't see him lifting it see that that's the area that I could see the judge potentially making some exceptions, but the rest, I don't see him lifting it. There's no reason to, there's no reason to ever have to talk about those individuals and put their lives in danger. So that's kind of where I think he will, where the judge will land on the gag order. But the court of appeals, just basically

the gag order was in place, right? And that Judge Mershon imposed. Then they appealed it to the middle level court, which is called the Appellate Division here in New York. They kept the gag order in place. Then Donald Trump went to the New York's highest court, the Court of Appeals, and they just denied it on Tuesday. They just said, you know, basically, there's no constitutional question directly involved. And so, yeah, it's just a couple of lines here.

Appeal dismissed without cost by the court, suesponte, which means on their own, upon the ground that no substantial constitutional question is directly involved. That's from Chief Judge Wilson. Judge Halligan took no part. Judge Halligan is Caitlin Halligan, who used to work in the Manhattan DA's office, and I used to work with her. She was the general counsel there, so that's why she took no part and recused herself, since this is a Manhattan DA case. So, essentially, they basically said there's no constitutional

issue, which is interesting because he's constantly saying first amendment, first amendment, first amendment, right? The gag order prevents me first amendment. And they just dismissed it outright saying, sorry, constitution's not implicated. There's no constitutional question here. So, so it's just another example of him saying what he thinks something is, but courts saying it's not true. And of course, he continues it. So yeah, that's where I see

the gag order. Yeah, I agree with you. He still has an opportunity with the appellate court. There's another 30-day application that he can make. They seem to have no interest whatsoever at the court of appeals level, him having lost already at the intermediary appellate court of the first department appellate division, which sits in Manhattan. Now he's a two-time loser at the appellate level. He almost always loses at the appellate level

in almost all of his cases, except when you and I will talk about the Supreme Court at the appropriate time, when we finally get decisions related to Donald Trump, which will either be this week or. You know, roll into, uh, into July, meaning roll into never having the DC election interference case before the election on the, uh, gag order. I agree with you. I think you just leave it in place.

I don't, I don't think, I think the debate that's coming up is the reason to keep the gag order in place because it'll just give him a megaphone of unlimited wattage for 50, 80 million people for him to go after and put crosshairs on the back of people that are just doing their civic duty and are civil servants and are part of our criminal justice system and they're just doing their job. Do you think he's going to show up to the debate? Yeah. I mean, they work so hard to challenge Biden and then anytime, any place. And so they are. So they pick the time and a place and they're, oh, I don't want to do it with the

presidential debate committee. And I don't want to do it. And they're, okay, we want to do it with the presidential debate committee and I don't want to do it. Okay, we won't do it with him. I mean, he's been accommodated in every way. I think it would be a terrible political misstep for Trump not to now debate Biden. I think it's all in favor. The wind is totally at the sail of Joe Biden as far as I'm concerned. What have you heard or what do you think on that? I mean, I've heard nothing. He just seems to be looking for excuses to get out of it, right?

He's constantly finding obstacles, you know, drug testing and whatever, all these obstacles. You think a gag order could be? You mean he would say then, oh, I'm subject to a gag order. Exactly. I would love to tell you everything, but I'm being gagged. That's what my first initial thought was, but who knows? It's not bad. I would love to tell you everything but I'm being gagged. That's what my first initial thought was. But who knows? Not bad. I don't I don't think like that.

That's that's often marinated. Because he's chicken. Well, that we know. I said marinate you said chicken. So that's why you and I get along so well. Plus I'm hungry. I'm down a meal every day. Since since we're since the clock has started. So we okay, we got good on that. Then, sentencing, we're waiting on two filings. We're waiting on the year old office.

I'm sorry, Trump to go first. We're waiting on Trump to file, I think it's later this week, could be early next week. There are recommendations for sentencing, which we know is going to be no sentence. There's going to be a political campaign screed masquerading as a sentencing which we know is going to be no sentence. There's going to be a political campaign screed masquerading as a sentencing memo. We'll get that. And then I think it's June 27th. That's a reason that that's a date in my head.

Alvin Bragg and his team there is going to be submitting their pre-sentencing memo and then there's a pre-sentencing report which we're hoping to get our hands on if it's made public. And we'll be able to talk about that with the interview and the dossier and all the background research and all their recommendations from the probation department. And then all these inputs go in and get plugged in to Judge Murchon, who frankly makes the final decision. He's always had Donald Trump's justice in his hands.

I was being kind there. And we'll see what he's gonna do. I mean, I don't know, I wouldn't bash and attack the person who my liberty is dependent upon, but Donald Trump does a lot of weird, demented things that make him unstable and for the presidency. And so that's what we've continued to watch.

Before we, go ahead, sorry. No, in addition to the sentencing memos, so a couple of things. There might be some pre-trial motions that they, or I should say post-trial motions that they file. So that you will also see that. And then the prosecutor would respond to that as well so who knows if they're gonna make any crazy motions post trial but but I would I wouldn't be

surprised if they try to do that and say things like there wasn't enough evidence or who knows whatever whatever they'll say well it'll be their appellate I agree with you it'll be it'll be there appellate brief. Yeah. And, you know, good. No, just the other thing I was gonna say is the probation report is is not public. I know. So, you know, it's it's it's not something you usually get to see. So unless somebody, you know, somehow gets a hold of it, it's not something that we can necessarily count on seeing. But it'll certainly be referred to at the sentencing. And in particular, what I think it'll be, I think you're going to see unless he's changed his tune, that he shows no remorse,

he takes no responsibility and denies. Won't it be in the briefing though, Karen? I mean, they'll they they can refer to the can refer to it Yes, we'll get a glimmer we can patch it together from the pieces that are referenced in each other's exactly Alright, well that that makes me feel better. You know, I was thinking I was kind of scratching out some notes here I think it is totally appropriate that on Juneteenth We recognize that Three and if you add judge Chuck in there, four of the major figures that are responsible for bringing Donald Trump to justice are black or African-American. I know that's something

that Donald Trump has recognized because he has found ways to be out and out racist in his comments about all of them, whether it's calling Fonny Willis Fanny and calling her a whore, which he did as did Rudy Giuliani, or it's, or Letitia James calling her Peekaboo James, which is a terrible play on a racist trope and comment, or comments he's made about Alvin Bragg, like he's subhuman and so you can just take a baseball bat to him. And I think at the end of the day when history is written

it's important to recognize that the courage that's been exhibited by these attorney generals, prosecutors and judges just happened to reside inside of African American and Black Americans. I mean Fonny Willis, there's so much about her that I've always respected. Just a few days ago, she went back in front of yet another historical Black church and defended herself, even though she sort of played with fire a little bit with that on Martin Luther King Jr. Day when she gave the speech that became the focus, large focus of at least Donald Trump's motion to disqualify her. But you know what? She's part of that community.

She's proud to be a part of that community. That community supports her as do all thinking Americans. She won her primary by an overwhelming amount. It was like 70 to 30, 70 to 30% to 30%. And I'm, yeah, I want to acknowledge that. And you've done a very good job, as always, on this podcast and on your own. Not your own, I mean, these are all your own. On this trial, in talking about it from your perspective and talking about the women, particularly, that have come up so strong in bringing Donald Trump to justice. Yeah. I mean, you know, E. Jean Carroll, for example, is somebody who I give so much credit, everything that she had to face and she had to deal with, and she came forward and just the

vitriol both publicly and personally that she had to face. Yet she had the strength to sit through these trials and face him down despite all of that, or whether it's Letitia James or Fonny Willis, or the judges, Judge Chutkin, just the women who've really had to withstand so much more and so much so heinous and horrific. I mean, we're going to be talking about Matt Gaetz in a little while. And just, you know, he's he's basically accused of having sex with underage girls and and paying for it. But Donald Trump reveres him. And someone like Fonny Willis has a consensual adult relationship with somebody and somehow, you know, with Nathan Wade, who was a prosecutor

in her office, who was a judge and was a high level, a high level person. He wasn't necessarily like a, the power dynamic was very equal there. So just because she was technically his boss. And somehow she is treated like, you know, like, like she's some kind of sex crazed maniac. And and now that case is in jeopardy because she had a consensual adult relationship. And and, you know, look at Donald Trump, whether it's sleeping with a porn star and paying her off and the sexual assaults of people like E. Jean Carroll,

and somehow he gets away with it. So it's just the double standards with women and people of color and everything that just really, when you look at Donald Trump and his cronies and how they all conduct themselves versus the upstanding men and women who are involved in trying to bring him justice. It's just the contrast is just appalling to me.

And one that I think you and I are proud to talk about and I'm proud to have you as my partner but proud to talk about on this particular episode. We're going to talk about Matt Gaetz and what it means for the hollowing out of MAGA that seems to have no morals and no values and yet tries to portray itself as the second party in our political system. We just had a major mega church pastor a major mega church pastor who was a Trump spiritual advisor, on more than one occasion, stepped down because he had underage. He had sex with an underage girl. I think she was 12 while he was living in her house when he was not 12, and finally got forced out of the church. But again, this is the type of people that Donald Trump surrounds

himself with. And listen, there was a reason my mother used to say, you know, you're judged by the company you keep birds of a feather. People that are evaluating and if there are still people out there that are on the fence about the upcoming election, one of the factors or one of the metrics you can use is who is in this person's life? Who is this person chosen to be in his life? Well, every person that Donald Trump has hired that has mattered has either been indicted and or lost their bar license and or has been found in contempt andor has committed other crimes and other fraud. That's the professional judgment of Donald Trump, right? And everybody around him. Andor has committed sex crimes, and he surrounds himself with other misogynists that have committed sex

crimes. And this is okay. I posited in a recent hot take. It's one thing to have a presidency turn criminal like Nixon. It's another thing for people to overtly vote for a criminal, convicted felon, and with all these other things that, yes, weren't crimes, but they were darn close to it, like the E. Jean Carroll rape in terms of the process, the civil fraud and all of that. And if you're trying to look at the person's body of work, what is this telling you about that person's body of work? The people he considers to be his spiritual advisors who have underage sex, the people who support him in MAGA Congress, who basically underage sex, the people who support him in MAGA Congress, who have under, who basically underage sex, who raped a girl. I mean, let's call it for what it is. And people are actually thinking that they're going to vote for him. The good news is it looks like finally, finally,

the convictions have seeped into the water table, into the water supply, and now it's showing up in the polling. And now the natural electoral advantage of Joe Biden, for good reason, is coming to the front. And the votes are flipping, like flip, flip, flip, flip, flip in all the major battleground states, where Donald Trump has to hold on to every bit of what he got last time, plus he has to get more. It's the plus he has to get more is the problem for him. Because if the polling is

right, it's not always right, but if the polling is right, there is a leakage between 8% and 20% out of the bucket for people who just won't vote for him because he's a convicted felon, including one out of five independents. And if that holds true, okay, then Biden is reelected. That is obvious. So right at that intersection of law and politics where we always sit, Karen, me and Ben, this is where it is coming to fruition. We're going to talk about what MAGA Congress is trying to do as a last minute, last gasp attempt, apparently, to save Bannon, as everybody else has served their prison sentences, or will have, for contempt of Congress, by attacking, attacking effectively, the memory and the dignity of those that fought and died on the Capitol, at the Capitol, during Jan 6th,

that fought and died on the Capitol, at the Capitol, during Jan 6th, brought by three election and Jan 6th denying MAGA reps, including some that have either just barely didn't get indicted in Arizona and in Michigan and Wisconsin and other places, refused in contempt of Congress their own subpoenas and have refused to acknowledge what Jan 6th was, which was an insurrection. We're gonna talk about that. And then we gotta conclude with Matt Gaetz. And I think Karen has a very good visual for us. I'll tease a little bit here that you'll see when she starts talking about Matt Gaetz. But we'll get to all of that.

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and save 15% off for a limited time only by going to superbeatsradio.com promo code LegalAF. That's super B-E-E-T-S radio.com promo code legal AF. Sheers there she is swinging her super beats. All right, we're back. We love our sponsors and we use them all the time. Yeah, for sure. So a couple of things. Ben and I decided to do a for Patreon and Patreon members, we decided to do our quarterly zoom

q&a live platform call tomorrow. It'll be 10 to 11 a.m. Eastern time, seven to eight a.m. Pacific time. So sort of early rise for Ben. You can get access to it by joining, and join today, join tonight at every level. Now we normally do this for, there's three levels of membership,

and they get you different types of exclusive content depending upon your membership. The entry level is we call it associate and that's I think five dollars a month. The council, ten dollars a month. Partner, as I think 25 dollars a month. And normally the zoom call quarterly with Ben and me to ask questions is at the partner level but because it's our first one, and we're continuing to build the audience, we're gonna open it up to every paid level of membership just for this one quarterly Zoom Q&A. So that's at every level, five,

the associate council or member, but you have to join, and then once you join, you'll be able to get access to a video of mine that gives you the link for the Zoom call tomorrow. And then speaking you join, you'll be able to get access to a video of mine that gives you the link for the zoom call tomorrow. And then speaking of tomorrow looks like tomorrow night at 3pm Pacific time, which is 6pm Eastern time is going to be the next episode of the new hit show. That's anchored by Karen Freeman, Nick Niflo, Donya Perry, Kathleen Rice called Mistrial. Karen Friedman at Knifilow, Donya Perry, and Kathleen Rice, called Mistrial, which is, I think, three episodes in and is already in the top 200 of all podcasts on Apple,

and more importantly, near and dear to our hearts. Do you have any teaser for that particular episode, any kind of cool guests coming on? What do you got going on there? No guests, it was just the three of us talking about various issues, and I have to say, it doesn't happen very often because I'm steeped in this world, but Danya came up with something that kind of blew my mind.

And it has to do with the, and we talked about the fact that the Supreme Court is about to rule any minute on the presidential immunity question and what this means for the January 6th case any minute on the presidential immunity question and how, what this means for the January 6th case and whether or not that Donald Trump's gonna be immune and if he's not immune, absolutely, whether there's any chance for a trial

and I don't think there is any chance for a trial, but Danya came up with something that I just thought was absolutely brilliant. And yeah, so you have to tune in. You have to watch Miss Trial to hear and watch me be like, oh my God, Danya, you're brilliant, which she is brilliant. And it's also very interesting. What I love is, you know, Kathleen, she not only was the elected

district attorney in Nassau County, so she was the DA for many, many years. She then became a member of Congress and she served four terms in Congress and represented Long Island. And her perspective on politics and the House and what's going on, and she was there on Jan six, they were hiding in an office in this, like a secret location because they were in fear for their life. I mean, her perspective on all of this, is just absolutely invaluable because she lived it

and she knows it and she knows it like nobody else. So it's just a great conversation. And I just love, like I love being with you or with Ben. I just really love being with them on this trial. And it's really great, great opportunity to be clear as it comes up in the chat all the time. It's M I s s t r i a l miss trial. So for those who are looking for, if you have a typo, you might miss it. So it's mistrial.

I'm going to play on words there because we're three minutes. I didn't get it the first time, but I get it now. I'm kidding. I get it now. Speaking of Congress and Jan 6th and those that served and didn't and are cowards, let's talk about the next two stories. Firstly, let's talk about what Burleson, Massey and Biggs are trying to do, obviously at Donald Trump's command, in order to try to overturn the entire findings of the Jan 6 committee and vacate their subpoenas and therefore I guess attempt

to do something towards the contempt findings. Now look, a bunch of people got subpoenas. Most, the vast majority of people complied with their subpoena to both provide documents and to testify to the committee. None of the MAGA Congress people who were all part of the Trump attempt to overturn democracy at various stages and whether it was involvement with the fake electors like Andy Biggs or opening the door and letting some of them in a few days early to let the Gen Sixers case the joint

or any of that stuff. And so the Gen Six committee case the joint or any of that stuff. And so, you know, the Jan Sixers committee wanted to get to the bottom of the rumors and the theory that there were, there were, it was an inside job in a way. None of the MAGA Congress testified and all ignored their subpoenas. Now, because of various traditions and norms within Congress, They didn't refer them to the Department of Justice, so Andy Biggs got away scot-free, so to speak. But the others, you know, Meadows, Scavino, Bannon, Navarro, Navarro is in jail right now. I mean, there's not much you can do for that guy. They're not going to withdraw. What are they going to do? Withdraw the subpoena, and there somebody's going to move to vacate his sentence and commute it and whatever.

He's wrapping it up in Miami. Donald Trump's one of his primary visitors. Pick up the phone. Put your hand on the glass. That's what they're doing. And Bannon's about to do that too. He's about to go. He looks like he's like loving it because he's with Trump like in campaign rallies and, you know, he's going to be the podcaster in jail in chief and heading into jail. So what did you make of this resolution and then, which is never going to pass and if it passes, it'll never be turned into a law. And then, which is never going to pass, and if it passes, it'll never be turned into a law. But what do you think it says for future congressional investigations, whether you like that Congress or not, and its power of the subpoena?

I mean, that resolution, you know, it basically it wants to call the Jan 6 select committee, you know, the illegitimate. And in addition to the subpoenas, they wanna basically dismantle anything that existed from the Jan 6 committee. And it's interesting because I thought a lot about this thinking, okay, let's say they did get it to pass, and let's say they essentially, let's back up a minute. So Congress has the power to subpoena someone to appear before them.

And the Jan 6th select committee had that authority. And so they subpoenaed various people who came in and testified before them. And as you pointed out, there were several who refused. And what Congress then does is they decide whether or not to make a criminal referral to the Department of Justice. And only the Department of Justice gets to decide whether or not there's enough evidence to bring criminal charges or not. So Mark Meadows, for example, who partially complied

with the subpoena, but not fully supplied or complied, I should say, I think he gave some documents over, but maybe he didn't want to testify. There was some, I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was a partial compliance. The Department of Justice decided not to prosecute him because prosecutors won't bring cases that they don't think they can prove beyond reasonable doubt. So there, I think the partial compliance made them pause.

However, with, as you pointed out, Peter Navarro and Steve Bannon, who basically gave them the finger and said, we're not complying at all, the Department of Justice decided to prosecute those and they were both convicted. read that Steve Bannon was hoping to serve his time in one of these camps, you know, that are notoriously much nicer and easier than some of the other federal prisons, I should say. And these camps are where some of the white collar people go. And I heard that he's not eligible for a camp because he has he has prior he has yeah, exactly He has a pending criminal state case here in New York So we yeah, we used to call those back in the day Although people only our generation will know what I reference that you will they used to call those Club Fed Yes, exactly because it used to be a chat. Are club meds still around?

Yeah, I'll ask that for the chart. Is that they around still? Yeah, I club meds still around. Club med. Exactly. So, so, yeah, so, you know, but I started thinking, so what would happen if they pass this resolution that made these subpoenas kind of nullified the subpoenas made them no longer existing. Would that matter to the prosecution? I don't think it does. I think the prosecution stands alone because it was a valid subpoena at the time. They refused at the time.

You know, you can call it back after the fact, even though it will never pass. Like you said, but in my head, I just was going through the, you know, the mental exercise of what that would be like. I don't think it does. And I analogize to a crime resisting arrest, which is a crime in New York where if somebody physically resists arrest, like just refuses to be arrested and then physically maneuvers their body in such a way that they

are trying to either get away or refuse to move their hands away to be handcuffed, that kind of thing. Resisting arrest, if you prosecute someone for resisting arrest, and often prosecutors do that when there's like the police get injured or something like that, when it's really egregious, that's when they usually prosecute those. And if you prosecute someone for resisting arrest, but the arrest is either, like say, they were being arrested for some other crime, and that crime, it turns out, they weren't guilty of for whatever reason, there wasn't enough evidence

or the prosecutors decided not to bring that charge. Or if the arrest itself was somehow, like I said, the case went away, the resisting still stands. So to me, this is sort of similar but who knows, who knows. I don't know how anything works. I think the case would still would still stand. Yeah I agree with you. I think that this is all a show theater. This is all this is all kabuki theater for Donald Trump so he can have something to talk about on the campaign trail when he tries to string two sentences

together. But it just shows me the depravity and the moral hollowness and hollowing out of the Republican Party and the MAGA party that they would even think to do this, to try to discredit the hard work and courage of the Jan 6 committee led by a vice chairman that was part of their party that they of course eventually admonished and censured and Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger. And it besperched miss I'll try it again it it sullies the name of those that died on that hill literally on Capitol Hill including Metro police and Capitol police and others, and those that still suffer from the psychological scars of what was one of the Capitol police referred to as reminiscent of her time in Fallujah. And she said particularly the blood splattered steps of the Capitol. For those that now say with revisionist history

and some sort of rose colored glasses that this was effectively just a Capitol tour gone awry and there's just hours and hours of people doing nothing or peaceful, right. So don't focus on that. Focus on the bloody combat medieval style at the West Terrace and at the stairs and the battle that raged for the soul of our democracy against an outmatched capital and Metro police not reinforced by the National Guard because who was going to call them out? The president certainly

wasn't at the time going to do that or anybody else. And then when the line wouldn't hold that now chilling comment from one of the Capitol police, the line is not holding, meaning this teeming band of insurrectionists were going to start pouring in and did pour into the Capitol with murderous cries and right, and with bent on assassination. I don't want to even think what would have happened had this fomented mob, whipped up by Donald Trump, armed, many of them armed, despite what some of these sponsors of this resolution said, had actually gotten their hands on a staffer or an elected official. God forbid Nancy Pelosi, God forbid the rest of them. I mean, they're all big talkers. And we've seen that in their trials, their convictions and their sentencings, when they went

from big talkers with their GoPros and they're wrapped in American flags and saying, you know, where's Nancy? Let's hang Nancy and drag her out by her hair and all that. And then they're all blubbering idiots begging for mercy when, you know, when it's time to meet their maker in the form of a federal judge. So I don't really know what they would have done, had they actually done it, but pushed on with a mob mentality, I can imagine the violence that could have ensued and the grievous harm that would have come to members of Congress. And not only members of Congress, I feel sorry for the poor staff members. They're making like minimum wage, okay? And they're crawling on their belly to try to get to safety while

you know, 15 or 20 Capitol Police outmatched trying to distract them from hanging elected officials. And to watch this group of people, starting with Mitch McConnell all the way to this group here that sponsored this resolution, when they were in it like your colleague on the podcast at the moment, and they were looking down the barrel of an angry mob with murderous cries. They certainly sung a different tune, including on the Congress floor. Go back and watch Mitch McConnell

talking about Donald Trump and how terrible it was. You'd think the guy would never be elected. And now all those same people, including one of the sponsors of this resolution is now saying, well, that was, oh, it's, it wasn't an insurrection. And no, there wasn't a violent, no, it wasn't an attack on the temple of our democracy.

No, it's too partisan. When did an attack on our Capitol become partisan? It is partisan by one wing in particular. We're gonna talk about Matt Gaetz, and of course you'll lead on it. Karen, I think you have some insightful thoughts and comments and observations on it. But before we get there,

and sort of talk about our wrap-up show and our anticipation of what should be coming on Thursday or Friday, or maybe the next Thursday or Friday, which is another batch of Supreme Court decisions that we're patiently waiting on. First, another word from one of our pro democracy sponsors. Many people are surprised to find out that I'm 57, almost 58, and that I'm a grandmother. That's why I love this product One Skin. This is something I use on my face every single day and it makes me look younger. I think that's why people think that I'm younger

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One last time, that's laundriesauce.com slash LegalAF, promo code LegalAF for 15% off. We're back. Salty, our producer, always loves when I have to do one of those.. It's one more time. For the third time, it's laundry sauce. Well, fourth time. So let's, let's talk about all kidding aside, something really serious, which we've got a member of Congress, who who just can't

seem to shake the allegations that he he raped a girl and did it outside of the country, plied her with drugs and and alcohol. And there's already a person that's serving time for doing the exact same thing who was his wingman and his buddy, Joel Greenberg, who was the seminal Florida County tax assessor and is cooperating and is a cooperating witness. That's why I was so surprised when the Biden administration slash Merrick Garland's Department of Justice closed the book

on the investigation. I don't exactly know why. Maybe from a prosecutor's standpoint, you can talk about what they may have learned during their prosecution, what they may have learned about the victim witness or something. Where did the assault occur? the the victim witness or something where did that where did the assault occur? Well, he's getting the out of state crime problem. I think it was at the Caribbean. It started in Florida. Yeah. Okay, you'll dive. So that's it. So as we said at the top of the show, and I'll just let you do all things. We got the bipartisan ethics committee

for the house. They've said that they're not looking into other abuse of power corruption type investigations for Matt Gaetz. There were a number of them, but they are focused tenaciously on this one about the sex act with a minor, you know, abuse of a minor and the drinking and the drugs and the things that related to that, they've had testimony given to them. I think the victim has testified to them and they're not letting this go. Go ahead, Karen, sorry. Yeah, no, it's, I think if this occurred outside of the United States in the Caribbean somewhere, it's just a jurisdictional problem for the Department of Justice. They're not gonna have jurisdiction over it.

And unfortunately with sexual assault cases, those have to be prosecuted where they occurred. I suppose if she traveled from the United States to the Caribbean in order to have sex, that is actually a charge they could bring. But maybe there's an issue with the witness. Maybe she's got credibility issues. Maybe she doesn't want to cooperate. Maybe she doesn't want to testify. Who knows, right? We don't know why. Either way, there is an ethical problem. And the ethics committee of the House started this investigation in April of 2021 and they were investigating illicit drug use, that he accepted improper

gifts, sexual misconduct, that he gave special privileges and favors to people he had personal relationships with. He sought to obstruct government investigations of his conduct and bribes, and then that he showed him proper photos on the House floor. And it's just, to me, what's shocking is that Trump celebrates this man, that Trump reveres him. And Ben did a whole hot take on this and played the clips of Donald Trump just saying incredible things about him, how he really just, like I said, reveres him.

And it's just shocking to me. And as we were prepping for this, I was like, God, you know, Matt Gaetz just looks like somebody. I can't put my finger on it. And so Salty, can you pull up the pictures that I think he might look like? Yeah, he looks like the villain from The Incredibles, right? I think his name is Syndrome, but don't you agree?

He also looks like the Heatmizer from the old Christmas show from back in the day. So anybody who knows the heat miser, you'll see that Matt Gaetz looks just like him with the eyebrows and the hair. Anyway, but he's Frosty the snowman, no? Was that? Yeah, that you're right. You're right. That was from Frosty the snowman and the heat miser. Yeah. Salty, you can find it. Just look for it right now and you'll find it and then just pull it up when you can. It's from like the 70s or something. So before you move on, I mean I did do a little. So the jurisdictional thing is not the issue because the sex acts allegedly took place in Florida. That's why Joel

Greenberg is in jail. I thought there was also that they took some of the girls, some of the women girls outside of the country through the Caribbean, through Miami. But no, apparently it was in hotels all over Florida arranged by Joel Greenberg. And the reporting at the time as to why, again, Barr starts it under Trump, but Biden's Department of Justice ends it, they said they just didn't think they can make a strong enough case against him. I think that's where your prosecutor instincts come into play. Even though they had a cooperating Joel Greenberg, they had the payments, they had the mobile payment apps were used either. The cash app of all things was used to pay these people.

But maybe they just couldn't find that link back that they needed. Although there is, you know, the current testimony is that the victim has currently is cooperating with the committee, and that Joel Greenberg, even though he's in jail, and through his lawyer, has supplied documents, I would imagine, the cash app receipts and other things, and text messages and emails, which I'm sure don't paint Matt Gaetz in the right light. My sense is this really, truly bipartisan committee is going to find that he is going to make an ethics recommendation, which is what they can do. It's a committee. So they ultimately have

to go through the full House for censure and or for impeachment and or for removal. But you have to start with the House committee, right, Karen? Yeah. I mean, the statement that they, that they released, uh, uh, yesterday was just, you know, this very long statement. It said, pursuant to committee rule seven, the committee on ethics, determined to release the following statement on April 9th, 2021, the committee announced it had initiated a review into allegations that representative Gates may have engaged in sexual misconduct and or illicit drug use, shared inappropriate images or videos on the House floor, misused state identification

records, converted campaign funds to personal use and or accepted bribe, improper gratuity or impermissible gifts in violation of House rules, laws or other standards of conduct. And then it goes on and says, we deferred from a request of the Department of Justice in May of 2023, the DOJ reauthorized that they could defer, they reauthorized this investigation and the DOJ withdrew its deferral request. And what they said was there's been a significant and unusual amount of public reporting on this committee's activities. So much of that reporting has been inaccurate. The committee's investigations are conducted confidentiality, but the committee's confidentiality rules do not

prohibit witnesses from disclosing information about the committee's requests, conversations, et cetera. And so then he says, they go on to say, Representative Gates has denied everything and not withstanding the difficulty in obtaining information from Representative Gates and others. The committee has spoken with more than a dozen witnesses, issued 25 subpoenas and reviewed thousands of pages of documents. Based on its review to date, the committee has determined that certain of the allegations merit continued review. And we also identified additional allegations that merit review. Accordingly, the committee is reviewing allegations with respect to Matt Gaetz that he may have engaged in sexual misconduct and illicit

drug use, accepted improper gifts, dispensed special privileges and favors to individuals with whom he had a personal relationship, and sought to obstruct government investigations and conduct. And so, you know, that was pretty astounding that they would release a video or I should say a statement like this. And so I thought that was pretty incredible. And if they after doing all of this and interviewing all these witnesses, if there wasn't something there, they would not have wanted to correct the record here before an election to make sure that everybody knew that Matt Gaetz is still being investigated for underage sex, drugs, and misuse, literally misuse of his power as a member of Congress. So I thought it was a pretty dramatic statement that was released.

An important one. And you know, you got Matt Gaetz who's running around on his own social media feeds denying everything. He knew this was coming. So he did like a preemptive strike like, you know, McCarthy chasing after me, an example of Russia. Russia, you know, it's just word salad. It's like kitchen magnets, kitchen poetry magnets where they just throw shit up on the wall and they just take the pages out of order sometimes from Donald Trump and they just use these phrases that make no sense.

They sequence them together. I mean, it sounds like English, but it really isn't. It's just bullshit. And so that's where we're at. But the good news is that while we were doing the overview, Salty found Karen's cherished photo comparison. There it is. Come on. Don't you think he looks like the Heatmizer? Yes, he looks more like the Incredibles guy. But I do. I see the hair.

Look at those eyebrows. It's the eyebrows, too, that get me. It's the eye, those pointy eyebrows, and the hair, and the- He's almost too easy to caricature. I mean, if I was a cartoonist, I'd be like, this is so easy. He looks like, yeah, 1,000, somebody said he looked like,

I forget, he gets attacked a lot for his appearance, which I know he thinks he's good looking and that's the problem. He looks evil. He truly looks evil to me. But we found a way on a week where we're waiting on the Supreme Court to make their ultimate decision about the immunity defense. We're still waiting on a very important decision about whether people who commit domestic violence are allowed to have guns under the Second Amendment. We're waiting to see yet another abortion decision, another monkeying around under the hood of women's reproductive rights about

whether the federal MTALA law will allow for the provision of an abortion in medical necessity. We're waiting on all that and of course whether there's going to be four counts against Donald Trump or two or whether 300 people already charged and convicted of obstruction of an official proceeding are going to have their their charges thrown out by this MAGA right-wing sorry this right-wing six to three majority Supreme Court that every day shows that they're out of step with where people are in terms of their morals and values, completely out of step. That they got into power and they got the numbers and they finally got to shove their federalist society, religious-based, right-wing, anti-woman agenda down our throat, that doesn't make it right. And that's not what the Supreme Court's supposed to be doing. And there's a reason why 40 years ago, 81% of Americans in a poll, speaking of polling,

revered the United States Supreme Court and cherished it as an important member of our three branches of government. And now that number is below 20%. And there's a reason for that. And it has a lot to do with John Roberts, who I've always said, I'll continue to say it, until he resigns, retires or something else. Circling the drain is the worst chief justice that we have ever had. But you and I and Ben will do what we need to do. And we will jump on with combinations of live reporting and hot takes and podcasts about the remaining

the remaining charges and the remaining decisions of what it does to the charges against Donald Trump and whether Donya Perry's doctrine that you'll hear about tomorrow night during mistrial is going to prevail or there's just no time left to try the case this this case against Donald Trump in time of the election. So what we're able to do with our fast fingers and thumbs during live chats here during the show is try to answer questions and do all that. But on Patreon, as I said at the middle of the show, we're gonna try something new and different

on a quarterly basis. If you join at a paid membership level, which starts at five and goes up from there monthly, you get exclusive content. But tomorrow, and I mean tomorrow, between 10 and 11 Eastern time, 10 and 11 Eastern time, if you join now or any anytime before 10 and 11, you'll get access to a special link and you'll be able to do a Q&A,

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are each taking on a life of their own. I think you and I did three clips in each one of those. Did between four and five hundred thousand views of just the clip of one of our segments. So we honor and are honored by, we honor our audience and are honored by our audience. And the way you can support us is the way you're doing it, which is free subscribe to the Midas Touch YouTube channel. It's free you know that or you should know that. Hit the button free subscribe before the November election and help us get the 3 million free subscribers. That's a major

way. Chatting is great with us going back out leaving a comment and a thumbs up is great. Leaving a review. We haven't talked about reviews in a while. Leaving us I feel like an uber driver every time I say this, leave us a five star review for the show and comment. And we do read them and it does, you know, it is constructive criticism or compliments. And we do read them and take them to heart and try to work it into our what we're building here. So you do that. We're on all major podcast platforms. You name it, we're on it. Legal AF. We you do that. We're on all major podcast platforms. You name it, we're on it. Legal AF, we're right there. You can go listen to us there, watch and listen, do

both, that helps us as well. We got a store, Midas Touch store, now going down to the annals of history after the Trump conviction. This is where you can go and get all those shirts that Michael Cohen talked about, it was cross-examined about, but you can also get Legal AF. And look at all that great Legal AF where you can get from the Midas Touch Store as well. So those are all the ways you can support all of us and our contributors and our hot takes and our new podcasts like Miss Trial, coming up tomorrow after political beatdown. What a great opening act for you in Michael and Ben, leading right into this trial. So, Karen, anything to sign off on our Juneteenth special episode? Just good luck to you and your bride. And I can't wait to the next time I see you,

you'll be a big daddy. I joked with the brothers, you two I think, in a chain. And I said, my future daughter already has exquisite timing. She is coming between, well, she's coming between midweek and the Saturday edition. Ben, Ben wrote me recently, he's like, we'll do something on Monday. I'm like, dude, like, well, do something on Monday. I'm like, dude, you're not following me. Baby Monday.

Unless I'm doing an exclusive live stream, Patreon of the birth, which I'm not, I'm not available on Monday. Wow. It's going to be, I'm just so happy for you guys and so excited for you guys. And so anyway, I wish you health and love and blessings and every good thing. Love having you in our life and being so supportive. Really appreciate you in every way and everything that you do. So until the next midweek edition, the next Legal AF this Saturday, with Ben and me and of course the Patreon live chat, which is coming up tomorrow, shout out to the Midas Mighty and

the Legal AFers, Michael Popak, Karen Friedman, and Nick Niflo, signing off.