Legal AF by MeidasTouch - Trump’s Defense has TOTAL MELTDOWN, Everyone TURNS AGAINST Him

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

The back to back plea deals struck by disgraced former Trump attorneys Ken Chesbro and Sidney Powell doesn’t just mean others in Georgia will flip on Trump, it gives the federal prosecutor, Jack Smith, a tremendous hammer to obtain plea, deals or indict, at least 4 other unindicted co-conspirator‘s in DC. Michael Popok of Legal AF explains why Trump current attorney and insider Epstyn, Rudy, Giuliani and John Eastman should seriously worry about federal indictment based on what’s happened in the Georgia state prosecution. Get up to 40% off for a limited time when you go to https://shopbeam.com/LEGALAF to try Beam's best-selling Dream Powder! Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://pod.link/1510240831 Legal AF: https://pod.link/1580828595 The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://pod.link/1595408601 The Influence Continuum: https://pod.link/1603773245 Kremlin File: https://pod.link/1575837599 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://pod.link/1530639447 The Weekend Show: https://pod.link/1612691018 American Psyop: https://pod.link/1652143101 Burn the Boats: https://pod.link/1485464343 Majority 54: https://pod.link/1309354521 Political Beatdown: https://pod.link/1669634407 Lights On with Jessica Denson: https://pod.link/1676844320 Uncovered: https://pod.link/1690214260 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Michael Popok, legal a F don't focus on what charges Ken Chesboro and Sydney Powell to disgrace lawyers for Donald Trump just pled to in order to get their deal in Georgia, focus instead on what will be the explosive nature of the testimony against Donald Trump. How it changes the calculus for Donald Trump. Call him flat footed. He wasn't expecting either of them, let alone both of them to cooperate. Turn states evidence turns witnesses for the prosecution and what it means for him, not just in Georgia, but in Jack Smith election interference case. This hot take is going to break down now that we've had a little time to catch our breath after back to back sentences, back to back. Sorry, plea deals, what it means going forward. First, let's talk about each of them. Then I'll connect the dots and bring it forward with

Jack Smith. Sydney Powell is the most insider of of of defendants and witnesses to testify against Donald Trump since we began this entire investigation. I can't stress enough for you how important Sidney Powell saying that she's a criminal admitting that she committed a crime and she did it with Donald Trump is to all of the cases involving Donald Trump. First of all, it helps completely destroy it, undermine any attempt by Donald Trump to claim, to in order to undermine the prosecution's ability

to prove criminal intent, which keeps prosecutors up at night. We got to show willfulness. We got to show criminal intent, mens rea, criminal mind of the person. One of the ways to try to defeat that is to use a reliance on advice of counsel as a defense. We know John Loro, the lawyer for Donald Trump has been out there saying Donald Trump's going to use the advice of counsel defense.

He had preeminent and eminent lawyers, including John Eastman, Sydney Powell, Rudy Giuliani and others. Now, all those people have already been indicted. One's already pled guilty to a crime. So the fact that one of his lawyers that he allegedly thought so much of in the heat of the moment into December of 2020 that he was considering making her the special counsel to investigate voter fraud. Yes, he fired her later when she said some things that went a little bit too far, even for Donald Trump. But all through November, December, even before November, the whole stop the steel. She's involved with every one of the lawsuits.

And she's in the inner sanctum with Donald Trump on a regular basis in a series of White House oval office meetings that she had the golden ticket to attend her rooted Giuliani, Mike Flynn, the guy that owns over stock.com for whatever reason, the pillow guy. They're all in there, right? Bending Donald Trump's ear to get him to declare as commander in chief that there's been fraud in the election to seize voting machines to declare a martial law to spend the Constitution in order to cling to power. She is in that inner most sanctum.

She was like an earworm for Donald Trump. And now she's going to testify that a she didn't really believe any of that or if she did believe it, she didn't have any proof. And that she's going to comment on Donald Trump's purported reliance on her advice and challenge that. Sydney Powell is connected to Rudy Giuliani. She can testify about Jenna Ellis, Sean Eastman, Bernie Kerrick. She can testify about in the current Georgia case, Misty Hampton and Kathy Latham and the other fake electors. She was going to dump. I'm sure on Ken Chesboro. So I can't underestimate how important it is that prosecutors have gotten Sydney Powell to flip. And this is not something that Donald Trump expected at all. It has to change the calculus of how he's

dealing with things. When he gets up in the morning, he can say all sorts of things about the crazy justice system and it's all a witch hunt and a fraud and a steal and whatever. But now, and this is, she's not the last. We got two back to back lawyers for Donald Trump that have raised their hands and soared there criminals and that Donald Trump basically is too in the conspiracy that they were all a part of. Ken Chesboro, his lawyer has already said Scott Grubman will play the clip next. Scott Grubman's already said that Ken Chesbro never believed that there were legitimate

grounds to challenge the outcome of the election. Just think about that. Ken Chesbro, who allegedly is the somebody that Donald Trump relied upon in order to execute the plan of the fake electors being certified in a basement since seven different battleground states and having those fake electoral certificates through Mike Roman, the day-to-day director of ground operations for Donald Trump, deliver them to Mike Pence on the joint session of Congress to pressure him not to certify. He, according to his lawyer, never believed that Donald Trump won the election. Always believed that Joe Biden was the legitimate winner of the election.

And he was just, I don't know, positing sort of thought games for Donald Trump's gaming out. What could happen if you use fake electors and how you could stop the peaceful transfer of power? I think it's, let's watch the clip here. Your client pled to a felony. He's the first one to have to plead to a felony thus far. And it's not just he pled to conspiracy to commit the filing of a false document.

Let's dig a little bit deeper. I mean, he pled guilty, didn't plead no contest. He said, I am guilty of count 15 in the indictment, which implicates Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, in a conspiracy to file a fake elector certificate, knowing that that was not true. So, I mean, your client may have gotten a probationary deal, but at this stage, he's admitted that the big lie was a lie and that everything that he was doing wasn't right.

So I like to push back respectfully a little bit on you, Katie. First of all, Mr. Chesborough never believed in the big lie. If you ask Mr. Chesborough today who won the 2020 presidential election, he would say Joe Biden. Okay, so it's a pretty dark day for Donald Trump when the guy you were relying upon says, he doesn't think you won. And I'm sure he's, you take it to the next logical step,

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when you go to shopbeam.com, slash legalaf, and use code legal a f at checkout that shop B E a M dot com slash legal a f and use code legal a f for up to 40% off. So you got chest bro, uh, who's now also pled guilty. Um, he had a plea to a felony. Sydney Powell pled to a misdemeanor. Again, the counts don't matter. Counts don't matter. a misdemeanor. Again, the counts don't matter. Counts don't matter. Chesbro is going to be able to connect the dots to the following people and testify against them all leading back into Donald Trump. Till testify against Donald Trump, Boris Epstein, the insider who even to this moment carries so much sway with Donald Trump that he's out trying for Donald Trump as a proxy to get a magas speaker of the house.

Boris Epstein, who brought in all the lawyers that are representing Donald Trump, Boris Epstein, who coordinated all of the fake electors on behalf of the of Trump and the Trump campaign. Chesborough is your worst nightmare. Rudy Giuliani will testify against Jenna Ellis and Bernie Kerak, who assisted Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis will testify against John Eastman, his co-architect of the Jan 6th, a fake electors scheme. Mike Roman, and many of his people have been indicted. Mike Roman indicted in Georgia, John Eastman, and Didadon in Georgia, and mentioned that currently as an unindicted co-conspirator in DC, Jenna Ellis, and Didadon, Giuliani, and Didadon in Georgia, and mentioned as an unindicted co-conspirator in DC, Boris Epstein,

mentioned as an unindicted co-conspirator in DC. And so you're putting up the big mob organizational chart that always goes up that we see in every movie, right, about these kind of matters. This is who Chessborough is able to connect the thoughts to and testify against. It's pay dirt and pay day for the prosecutors to get these two back to back. Part of it is of their own making. Let's remember they are the two that jump forward and Exercise their right under Georgia law to go to trial within a month of their indictment thinking they were gonna Cauch the prosecutor Fawney Willis flat-footed and not prepared. She was prepared and loaded for bear She had been prepared for the last six months

She wasn't gonna bring her indictment and took a lot of grief, including on this network, including on legal a f the podcast that I co-anchor about her not moving fast enough. That's because when she indicted, she was ready to go to trial the next day because she knew it was a possibility under Georgia law. And when she said, sure, you want to have trial a month ready as prosecutors like to say, the two of them, I'm sure gulped. That was my gulp and said, Oh, we better cut a deal. And now that has cracked the ice. And now we're going to watch a whole series of other defendants, co-conspirators of Donald Trump plead guilty.

And as a result, have to testify against them and have to cooperate fully with the prosecutors. We're going to see the fake electors, Miss D. Hampton and Kathy Latham and others, they're going to have to plead because they're going to be like, well, these two just blood, what chance do I have of winning, especially if they're going to testify against me. Because that's what happens, right? It's not that the jury is informed that there's been prior convictions. It's that these two people,

Chesbro and Powell walk through the doors as free people, so to speak, and testify that we were in a conspiracy with the rest of these people and we committed a crime. And I'm here to tell you about it. Now look, they'll be cross-examined. I don't want to suggest that Chesbro and Powell are wearing a halo that isn't a solid at all.

They're gonna be cross-examined. You know, you were facing a long time in prison and you took a deal, right? Because, you know, this goes to bias and credibility in front of the jury. That the only reason you're doing that now and testifying against my client is to get a deal. You got a misdemeanor, didn't you?

And not a felony charge, Ms. Powell. You got one count of a felony, Mr. Chess, and you would have you've avoided jail and you're getting probation, aren't you? Yes, yes, yes, and yes. At one time, you really believed all of these things, right? And now you say you don't. Well, when were you lying then or now? That's the cross examination.

But it is certainly worth the price of admission to put these people on the stand because they'll just say yes, and now I've seen the light. And I committed a crime and here's why. And it's usually credit that, especially people who at one time were true believers, like Powell, at least Powell, I mean, from that clip we just played of Grubman. You can't say he was a true believer, Chesbro at all.

Now, let me just finish the hot take on what this means for the Jack Smith case. A lot of people are wondering, and it is, it is a very good development. This is going to, I think, accelerate and change the velocity at which Jack Smith is going to indict these people. Not Chesborough and Powell. I think he's going to cut a deal with both Chesborough and Powell, who are both listed as one of the six unindicted co-conspirators in the DC election interference case. Jack Smith has against one defendant, Donald Trump, and four counts of conspiracy, but he's got six people listed. And now, two of those six have pled guilty to crimes in Georgia.

So you know they're gonna be on the phone, or if they haven't been already, with the lawyers for chess, Brown, Powell, about their level of cooperation in the DC circuit case, because they're gonna have to cooperate the same way and tell the truth the same way. It's only one truth you can tell. They're going to have to tell it again and cooperate.

If they want to deal to avoid federal conviction and federal indictment, they're going to have to cooperate there. So don't be surprised when Chess Brown Powell are reported to have cut a deal with the DC federal prosecutors now to do the same thing, cooperate there. Say they committed a crime and a conspiracy. You might see a quick indictment followed the next minute with a plea deal or you might see a plea deal to avoid an indictment. It'll be one of those two things.

But this also ratchets up the pressure on Jack Smith to get these other four unindicted Coke and spirit tours, Rudy Giuliani, Boris Epstein, and the rest who for now have skated by listed only as unindicted Coke and spirit tours without being named. You know, we pieced it all together, but now there's going to be pressure on Jack Smith to get these people to flip. And I think the phone calls are, you know, as a 32 year defense lawyer are going to go as follows. Phone call from Jack Smith's team to the lawyers for these people saying, look, you know, things are going terribly wrong in South for Trump and others in Georgia. We're going to get, of course, Powell and Chess brought a cooperate

with us and others. If your client doesn't come in to avoid an indictment, we're going to indict your client. We're gonna re, you know, we'll get the grand jury back up and running and we'll indict them. Probably in a separate indictment, not joined with Donald Trump, so it doesn't delay the Trump trial. I don't think those cases can solidate it in any way.

I think those cases get tried separately and won't delay the March 2024 Trump trial date. But now, um, Fonti Willis has given a giant gift to her fellow prosecutor, federal prosecutor Jack Smith. He and now is a giant hammer that it can use against the unindicted co-conspirators like Rudy Giuliani, like John Eastman, like Boris Epstein, to get them to cooperate. Now that the two others of them that were part of their gang, Chas Pro and Paul have pled guilty to state crimes for the same effectively, the same facts on the same facts. So that's what we're going to see next.

The use of what happened in Georgia, not just in Georgia against other conspirators who are defendants who are facing trial, but in DC by Jack Smith as he ramps up the pressure campaign there. We'll follow all of these chess moves, all of these cascading events coming off of the back-to-back plea deals of Chesbro and Powell in Georgia, one place the Midas Touch Network on the YouTube channel that you're watching us on right now. You do that. You're watching me here. I do hot takes like this one about every day, sometimes three and four times a day

depending upon the news and the news cycle. I do it with my fellow leaders and anchors of legal AF. Yes, that's what you think. The leading podcast at the intersection of law, politics and justice, Karen Friedman, Niflo, Ben, my Salis and me every Wednesday and 8 p.m. every Saturday at 8 p.m. Eastern time. And then we put it on audio podcast platforms so you can listen to it whenever you like. So until my next hot take, until my next legal AFF episode, this is Michael Popock reporting.

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